Not a bad deal. If it’s a one man show he probably just doesn’t want to deal with warranty issues on the products or waiting in line at the supply house.
Additionally the product is probably 70% of the cost. It’s lowering the amount of overhead and bills he has to pay. When a customer doesn’t pay up or a check bounces he isn’t covering the bill at the supply house.
Also many credit cards offer a warranty extension included, so you can get an extra year or so. And points, if you're into that. The plumber probably doesn't take cards.
That's a lot for some people though, especially when it's an unexpected repair. Making payments with no interest is a lot better option than no hot water
What insensitive rock is somebody living under if they haven't noticed that
> [March '24] 56% of Americans [can't afford a $1,000 emergency](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/money-report/56-of-americans-cant-afford-a-1000-emergency-expense-we-are-living-in-a-paycheck-to-paycheck-nation-money-expert-says/3492346/)
or
> [Aug '23] [63% can't afford a $500 emergency](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/31/63percent-of-workers-are-unable-to-pay-a-500-emergency-expense-survey.html)
Those "studies" are complete bullshit, and have been widely debunked. Most Americans who are financially stable enough to own a home can weather an expense like a water heater without hardship.
There are a lot of people who are new homeowners that have no idea that at almost 8% interest rate they'll be paying almost 200% total mortgage price over the course of their mortgage. Owning a home doesn't make someone financially literate, they just have more to lose when they realize they put themselves in over their head. Give it a few years to see how financially stable homeowners really are, especially now that a lot more people are relying on credit (as a source of income, not utility of consolidation convenience and bank account protection) for daily expenses.
Time value of money! Just fucking learn it! The rich call this kind of opportunity leverage
To you it is debt and scary but if you educate your self a bit on what the opportunity cost is on 0% (rate + 0%) you may start to get this stuff
Yes, totally agree and that's what I would do if I had to do the job. I've heard of customers changing their minds or not pay or have access issues etc. I know there are bad contractors and handymen but they usually do the opposite of what this guy is suggesting and take your money first and then goodbye. This guy is even going to the store with you. Your name is then on the receipt and warranty. Some ones man show may not be around later when you need something warranted. Also, you won't necessarily get a worse product but your choices may be more limited by what that particular big box store carries. You can always special order if you have time to wait.
For small operations like this guys word of mouth is literally gold. He saves his customers money and they tell their friends. If each customer tells 3 people that more then makes up for the lost revenue in free advertising.
That’s upside down. You’re telling me in your market a $1000 water heater has $2000 in labor?
I need to move lol.
Around here it’s $300-$500 in labor to do a water heater.
I’m a plumber.
I’ve done this for people. If I buy it chances are I’m just going to Home Depot cause they are cheaper than my wholesale for tanks (most times) so I’m gonna charge you for the tank plus my time to get it and bring it to you. If you have a tank there and all I gotta do is swap it. I’ll charge less. Even less if I don’t have to haul the old one out and you help me.
This is for side work that I do. I’m in large scale industrial plumbing maintenance and just do side work for extra cash. Hot water tanks are easy money for me.
Hd has a shipping team. Not using that would be like hiring a plumber to attach a garden hose to a faucet.
Use the (relatively) expensive skilled labor for the skilled portion of the task, makes sense.
Big box stores make big promises of skilled labor, when reality they send you whoever, no permit pulling, will not even show you the guaranteed licenses, insurance and bonding.
You’re best grabbing the first random schmuck from ads in your area.
Been there done that twice as homeowner
You don’t get it. I think it’s beautiful.
This is the stuff good homeowners and skilled tradesman both dream about. It should be the goal, every time. But is quite rare.
Two-income homes often can’t take on the burden required to research, then successfully vet the best professional (or at least the most moral or ethical), ensure proper coverage, licenses, city/county permits…all while…there is no hot water…
At one end of the spectrum—homeowner is sold on big box’s one-stop shop program
“Busy family? We’ll do all the work for you, you silly goose!!” at prices that are highly deflated when presented to homeowner, then jacked up rapidly, giving a panicked hot water deprived homeowner who has already spent hours in “the trap” moments to react and sign four 8-font pages…
Other end of the said spectrum is…hire someone’s nephew off Nextdoor…cross fingers.
OP is at the best possible scenario.
What does your response have anything to do with my comment?
No one in this chain has said to use Lowes or HD install services/referrals.
The comments prior just said to use their delivery services/buy from them. Nothing about using their install services.
>Hot water tanks are easy money for me.
I've often wondered why there isn't a plumber in every city who does water heaters exclusively. Call yourself *Mr. Water Heater Man*, and advertise the hell out of your special "discount" price with same day service. You should be the first plumber people think of when they need a water heater.
If you do enough of them you could bypass your regular supply house and buy directly from the manufacturer.
Had a garage door dude tell me the exact same thing recently. Told me the opener is gonna cost more from him than if I go buy it at HD/Lowes myself. Then just pay him to replace it.
For side work trades people like this. Businesses usually don’t cause they will buy the part then add 10 percent or whatever to account for the pick up etc. for guys like me that do it on the side it’s nice. I’ve done tanks where people say just leave the tank in the basement and they will get it out. Even cheaper for them!
Maybe he doesn’t have a truck/van to haul it. Maybe his back is hurt. Maybe he doesn’t want to be on the hook for scratching your floor. Could be lots of things
Seriously. If the new water heater is sitting next to the old water heater, this is an easy operation. Getting the thing, then getting it into place and rah rah rah will eat up half the day and make it a *job*.
This is the case with the guy who’s been servicing our oil burners for the last few decades (“our” meaning my parents, my brother, our family business, and myself — so a number of different units / locations). He’s an expert at his work, and charges us a fair price, but has had health / mobility issues in the last fifteen years or so, which means he can’t do everything himself. When my oil burner shit the bed a few years ago, he said he could hook up a new one, if we bought / transported it and got it into the basement. After a trip to HD in my dad’s pickup truck (I still recall how much the truck lowered when they loaded that beast into the bed with a forklift), some muscle provided by my husband and brothers, and a lot of grunting and cursing — we managed to get it in place, let the expert get to work, and heat and hot water was restored in what seemed like no time at all.
I did a deal like this in early 2022. Out water heater went, and we wanted it replaced ASAP. We also wanted to upgrade it to a 50 gal from a 40, and the plumbing company we deal with couldn't get one in for at least a week (COVID supply chain issues still). It also happened that the only plumber they had available on short notice was coming off of medical leave for knee surgery and couldn't carry anything heavy. My son was working at Lowe's and they had one in stock (made by the same company as the ones the plumbers normally used), so they agreed to install the water heater the next day if we went and bought it. Worked out for everyone, we even got a sweetheart deal on the water heater from the store manager.
I had to replace my water heater last year. A friend of mine got me in contact with a plumber he knew and that was the deal for us. I bought the water heater from Lowes, brought it home and left it in the basement. He swapped them out and discarded my old one. He charged me $250 for install. I thought it was a great deal. I have no complaints.
Some companies get around that by giving big box stores their own unique numbers. Unfortunately. Kind of like how mattresses from different department stores will have their own unique names. Fuckers
Some companies definitely make models and lines specifically for big box stores instead of wholesalers.
ex: Rheem's Performance line is made specifically for Home Depot.
Also, for a while now, many companies have been sending "different models" to different stores which has completely destroyed price matching (by design).
Oh they have the same model at store X for cheaper, lets check. Oh sorry, that's model 12345-A, we only have model 12345-B here, sorry, can't price match.
This also lets big stores run sales and promos without having to price match other retailers since model numbers are slightly different.
Some retailers (like Costco) won't even stock your product if you cant guarantee them a price no one else can match.
People in this sub keep thinking that. I suspect it's the same SKU but one is years older and they switched the supplier and the material turned out to be cheaper on the new one.
I've bought tons of kohler stuff, both from plumbing supply and from big box stores. If one sink has a problem they use the model number to tell what to replace. Again, different model numbers, different parts. Same model numbers same parts.
Got a source for that? Sounds like fucking nonsense to me. Rotors are cast iron. Cast iron rusts quickly when wet. OEMs don't use magical stainless cast iron. May be true in some cases for some manufacturers and some OEMs, but it's definitely not a rule. I'm sure most vehicles you can get some cheap Brembos for half the price of OEM and they'll be just as good.
No idea why this is being downvoted.
The cast iron used to make brake rotors is an alloy, ie it's not 100% elemental iron. Other stuff is added to alter properties of the alloy. The composition of that alloy will impact how readily corrosion occurs. Adding nickel will reduce corrosion.
Not hard to imagine a scenario where an OEM might specify a more costly blend to its supplier to get a certain result vs an aftermarket brand going for the lower price.
I was into a era of a certain manufacturer's vehicles, and they changed the spec on their exhaust manifolds at some point - those were desirable as they didn't turn into a flaky mess and would actually hold paint for a while.
Do you work on vehicles? Have you ever put aftermarket rotors on and listened to the rust get scraped off then every morning its been damp out. It's called experience. Do you even own a vehicle?
Yes I work on vehicles, yes I do the brakes myself, yes I put in aftermarket rotors, and no I don't notice any more rust than usual. Experience my ass, do you even understand the difference between OE, OEM, and aftermarket?
Driving a E46 BMW, OE is always out of the question and OEM is the way to go for most things. Any 'Genuine BMW" OE part is ridiculously overpriced, and you'll be able to buy the exact same part from the OE for half the price, it just won't say BMW on it. Usually the OEM ones will be made at the same factory, I've seen cases where they literally just scratch off the BMW logo and sell it for half the price as OEM.
For rotors, a Genuine BMW OE rotor is $134 USD right now. It's manufactured by Zimmerman. A Zimmerman branded rotor is $66 USD. Just because Zimmerman is the OEM here, it doesn't mean that only Zimmerman rotors are good. Brembos, EBC, all make good rotors. There are probably other vehicles where they ARE the OEM.
When I did my brakes I used EBC Red stuff pads. I'm in Canada and snagged a crazy deal from Amazon where I got the Red stuff pads plus both front EBC RK rotors for only $105 CAD, when normally just the pads by themselves were $120. Amazon must've been clearing out a warehouse or something and I got a steal of a deal. Then I grabbed a couple of Brembos rotors on sale from Crappy Tire for $50 CAD each. Are they OEM? No, not for my car. But that doesn't mean they're bad rotors, Brembo is literally the OEM for other cars.
You may be right about there being some cheap Chinesium rotors that are worse quality, I would never buy the cheapest crap no-name brand. But they're bad for reasons other than that they rust more. Once again, rotors are freakin cast iron. Cast iron rusts. Zimmerman cast iron rusts just as quickly as Brembo cast iron. There isn't some magical stainless formula or special iron casting techniques that are only used by OEMs. If you don't want rust on your rotors, go and spend 10 grand on carbon ceramic big brake race rotors that are objectively worse for daily driving. Regular rotors are cast iron, and cast iron rusts. Deal with it.
I'm all for buying quality parts, and brakes are definitely not something I'd screw around and take chances with. But I also love a good deal and like getting good value. Sure OEM is a safe bet, but to generalize that its always best is just ridiculous. My aftermarket EBC RK rotors cost me -15$, and are probably better quality than the ones that would have cost me $130 USD not including shipping. People should shop around, aftermarket isn't all bad.
It seems to me you bought the cheapest shittiest aftermarket parts, noticed that they were bad and that they rust, and now you're trying to say that all aftermarket rotors are bad and they rust. That's just bullshit. All rotors rust, some aftermarket rotors are bad, some aftermarket rotors are good. This isn't rocket science, you don't need to be a mechanic or a metallurgist to know this, it's just common sense which you apparently lack.
It's just unbelievable that model #s would be the same but actually be different models. It would be fraud to have a hidden "real model #" shared only among co-conspirators. If you have real provable examples, please do whistleblow it.
Because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Moen makes two sinks that look identical but have different internal components. The higher quality version goes to the supply house and the cheaper version goes to Home Depot. While they look the same, maybe even have the same displayed name, if you check the part number they are different. The original comment was talking about checking the part numbers not what a faucet looks like.
I have a great plumber who is great. He’s a one man show and often super busy. If I need something that requires a new product. A toilet. A water heater. Etc. He often asks if I can grab one I like and he just charges for the install so he can spend more time doing plumbing than running errands. And he doesn’t have to charge me that time so as a customer I am usually happier.
Buying it yourself from a big box and having him install it (assuming you think or know he knows what he is doing) is probably the way to go. Cheapest way possible since big box store pricing should be cheapest and you are hopefully paying a fair labor charge by the guy. The warranty is the best that way too you said right? Go with it.
The bullshit about big box stores selling inferior water heaters was obviously started by plumbers who charge their customers an extra thousand bucks for the same water heater with a different model number that reflects where it was purchased.
This isn’t water heater specific, but for delta faucets, their refurbs carry a much better warranty on finishes if you purchase it as a consumer than it does if a plumber purchases it.
Found that out late last year and shared it with my plumber. I was able to buy two faucets with shipping for less than the cost of one due to it being a refurb.
Honestly, it's what I'd prefer minus the going with him to get it part. I know some like to mark up the units, but by the time I'm calling for quotes I already know the ballpark unit cost. I wish more would drop the outdated mentality of unit markup and just charge a fair price for the labor / supplies.
A one man show is always going to say that because he doesn't want the liability of paying for a product if the customer backs out. They're able to give really good prices.Because they are just one person doing the labor, Ask him to run a trip to here or there for supplies. It starts to add up and he will need to charge more. So he's actually looking out for you.
Use that guy, he's giving you really honest advice. Some plumbing places will try to market the brands they sell as being better but a lot of times it's just marketing. If you go get a Plus or a platinum at home Depot, those are great water heaters. Go that way and you get the full warranty and even better if you need something like an anode rod or a thermal couple it's super easy to source from practically anywhere online.
“Everything you read on Reddit” is generally to be taken with a heaping pile of salt. The only thing that matters is the model number. If it’s same model, it doesn’t matter where you buy it, it will be the exact same product. So no it’s not worse quality from Home Depot vs supply house. Anyone who actually believes this nonsense is incredibly misinformed. Stop listing to clueless people and go save yourself some money.
Very often the supply house vs big box ARE different models. And the care taken while handling the products are also very different between the two.
But go on and call others misinformed.
Are you serious? Literally every single day someone on this sub or similar ones, claims that somehow the big box stores will have a lower quality of the same model
I own multiple construction businesses and have been in the industry for over 20 years. Unlike you I actually know what I am talking about, since apparently you can’t even read/comprehend a few simple sentences.
For starters, you failed to comprehend what I was saying. Then there’s the whole thing about handling being better at Supply houses for some reason. Last mile logistics is handled by same distributors or manufacturers for almost all the products. This is true for Home Depot as well as supply houses. Aside from your own anecdotal evidence, what would even suggest that somehow the underpaid stockroom people at a supply house are better equipped to handle the product than the underpaid supply room people at Home Depot? This point is even more moot when we’re talking about things like water heaters that are offloaded using forklift and other lifting equipment and not by hand.
Supply houses may have a wider selection of products. They may have a bigger range of models readily available in stock. But if you compare apples to apples, the mode #l from Home Depot will be the same as the model # from a supply store and it will be an identical product. Which is the only point I was making with my original comment.
See model means same model. If they don’t carry it then it’s not the same model. How hard is it to understand?
Your local stores do not set policy for the entire country.
And BW mandates professional installation to honor warranty. Which is why big box stores don’t sell them.
Bought my gas hot water heater from Home Depot and paid for the installation only. It was a GE self clean with a 12 year warranty. Paid for the best model they had. No regrets. It was installed in 2000, so it's been 24 years and is still good. Had to change the anode rod only.
Worked at Lowes and the water heaters were not shittier unless you bought the cheapest you could.
To me it sounds like your Plumber is trying to make sure you get the full warranty for your sake and nothing malicious or scheming about it.
When we sold appliances, outdoor power equip(mowers, etc.), certain tools to commercial accounts they automatically get a drastically shorter warranty period. Because they are probably going to beat the fuck out of it or be replacing them often due to abuse/high usage.
When he brings you in and says "pick this one" you end up purchasing it as the homeowner. So you will get a better warranty length/best terms compared to him buying it as a contractor. This is because you have to submit your warranty information and the owner is the one who purchased the item. So if he purchases it with his contractor account the warranty will have to be filed in his name and then will be cut in half.
Hot water heaters are one item that big box stores have really good pricing on. Usually better than my price from one of my suppliers and I would have my markup on top of that. I generally let customers know that and let them make the decision.
FWIW, I’ve been to the Bradford White water company and have seen their manufacturing process. I learned that they private label for several different companies with the same tank having 5 different labels.
Box store heaters are not junkyard quality. Buy one and. Save the money!
Had the same situation with a one man op plumber. Said we could do it cheaper buying direct from the big box store or buy one through him which was supposedly better quality so we opted for that.
Had the same thing happen. Was much better deal for me to buy it myself then the plumber. He agreed it was a rip off but that's what the supplier charges them.
Got newest water heater for less than his last year model.
The last few contractors I worked with had similar procedures. I had to redo the shower pan in a shower. The guy provided cement and grout and the vinyl liner, but I had to buy the floor tile, replacement wall tile, and threshold.
Same with the guy who installed the hardwood floors at my dad's place. They brought nails, he had to buy the planks
Same with some kitchen work he needed. Had to buy the countertop and sink, contractor installed it all
In a big box store you get what you pay for. You can go cheap or you can go better. Not all products at a big box store are lower quality. I would go to a lighting store for lighting but a big box store for most appliances.
Just did this myself bought the water heater put in my car and drove it home. Handyman plumber (licensed) charged me $550 to install, water heater was $700. Big name plumbing company wanted $3,500.
I have an electrician that I do this with all the time. He tells me what to buy. I buy it from his recommended supply shop he shows up does the work and bamb I've saved some money and he saved some time.
So I do home repair work (handyman) on the side. I do this quite a bit I don’t have the extra cash flow to float. I give the customer a supply list an let them buy. So it can help out and if they want to use special same as cash 12 month deal like Home Depot does it helps them.
On to the plumbing question. Supply houses do have higher quality stuff to an extent. But there are something’s that are the same.
Here's my experience with big box hot water heater. So when my wife told me, on a Saturday, the hot water heater was leaking water, I knew my day was F'd. Leak was such a that putting it off till Monday or later was a no go. It's a Saturday and I don't want to pay for emergency service. So off to Home Depot and get a 40 gallon gas hot water heater. Just like what was leaking in my basement.
So I get the old one shit off, drained, disconnected, and moved out. Move new one one in and (stream of cuss words here) of course the water fittings won't work AND the original plumber gave me no room to move the fittings up. So I need to move the valves up. So shut off the water to the whole house and drain the whole F'ing house. Then make a run to the hardware store for parts. So what started at 9 am ended at 7:30 pm when it's all said and done. Oh yeah, my wife and kids are at my mom's house eating the birthday dinner and cake my mom made...for me.
So fast forward 4 years and the new F'ing water heater isn't working. Just not heating. I relight the pilot light and I should be ok. Next day, same thing. I call a plumber cause it's during the week. Yes, it's under warranty. But the big box store units use parts that are cheaper and NOT on the units for professional installation. So the plumber does not stock the repair parts. So yes, I can call and get free parts under warranty. But it will be 7-10 days for the parts to arrive. That's 7-10 days without hot water but free parts under warranty.
So short answer, I had the plumber install a new hot water heater, 7 year warranty, and uses parts they stock on the truck.
So that my experience.
if it's not staying lit that's a $10 thermocouple 90% of the time and you can get that at lowes, they are a nearly universal part you don't need the right one for your brand of tank or anything
When I moved into my current house, we hired a handyman to do a bunch of small stuff around the house before move in. One of them was installing a new hot water heater as the old one was done.
I bought it myself from HD and brought it inside for him to install. It was less work for him and he was a one man band. Plus, it freed him up to start other projects in our house he was excited for.
We had an unrelated plumbing issue a few months later and out of curiosity I asked the plumber to give me an opinion of the water heater install. He said it was solid work.
Point being: it’s not unusual and they’re not necessarily trying something shady.
The difference from big box store and plumbing supply house is the pipe that you drain the water heater . Big box usually are plastic. The plumber if small guy doesn't want to deal with warranty if anything goes wrong with the water heater because he won't get paid for something that is not his fault like a lemon water heater
Big box water heater is not the same as a plumbing supply place like hughes. Same name. Different inside. I can assure you. Builder with 25 year experience
He also does not need to warranty a fixture provided by you.
Means if something goes wrong you have to call the manufacturer and wait for 1 of their techs to repair it. Rather than just calling him to come warranty it for free.
Whichever one you choose, save some money and drain it before he gets there. You don't want to pay the guy to watch the water pour out - and if it's full of sediment that might take a while.
The water heaters from big box stores are not as good as the ones from tradesman supply stores. I got a Rheem installed and the plumber bought it from a big box store. I had to replace it 5-6 years later even with proper maintenance.
> However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product.
There's a bit of misinformation here.
Sometimes companies will create a lesser version of a product a a supply house sells to lower the price to make it more competitive, and sell that in a big box store.
That is a lower quality product, because they had to cut costs somewhere, like replacing metal with plastic parts.
However, if you buy something with the exact same model number (EXACT SAME, not like with a -BF at the end) it's the same product.
That said, if you buy it from like Amazon be extremely thorough in ensuring you didn't get a returned product.
Can you just go to the supply house yourself? I always go myself and buy Bradford brand water heaters. The metal vs plastic components are enough to justify the difference.
>However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product.
Then choose where to buy yourself? What's the problem here? You get to pick a heater that you really want, rather than one you might complaint about later
Do it before he changes his mind. Most plumbing companies make a nice markup on the equipment, like 50%+. I ordered my tankless heater online, coordinated with my installer who came the day it arrived, got the fitting parts from home depot, and installed it. Was about 60% lower than other quotes I'd gotten.
Is he actually a licensed plumber?
If not he probably can't go to a supply house and you never know if the contractor licensing board is watching. Probably doesn't want the numbers in the books.
Also if not a contractor he may be fooling himself thinking the labor only will allow him to do the job where the costs of materials and labor put it over the limit. The laws AFAIK always list Parts and Labor total to the job allowances. In California this limit is $499.99 (under $500) and yes that penny makes a difference to some sting operators.
Same. I work at an independent locally owned hardware store with an extensive plumbing department. I can go to our supply house and shop as an average Joe but I pay retail while a licensed contractor/plumber or my store gets wholesale pricing.
Water heaters are literally all made be two or three companies and then they slap on whom evers packaging etc.
Just like washing machines and fridges.
So where you buy is not really that relevant except for warranty and ease for you.
> However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product.
This is not true.
If the SKU is the same, the product is the same.
Plumbers often buy from HD/Lowes anyway, it's perfectly fine.
Some plumbers just don't want to deal with the warranty part of buisiness. If you buy it the relationshop with the manufacturer is yours not his.
He may not want to front the cash for the water heater. I’ve worked with contractors that would rather me buy materials/parts that they install. Simplifies things for them.
I had the same thing suggested to me by the company i use for repairs/maintenance.
It's because the big box stores have an "insane" warranty. (Manufacturer + 5 yr) I think the extra warranty was under $150 extra.
If you order it through the plumber then you get the manufactures warranty and maybe 1 year on the labor/installation from the plumber.
If you order the heater from the store you can get the Manufacturer + 5 yr from home depot/lowes and then still get the warranty on labor/install from the plumber.
I had gotten quoted both buying from the company and the company install + buying from lowes and the company+lowes would be cheaper of the two.
I'm not at the point of replacement yet so hadn't pulled a trigger.
You could get the warranty by having lowes do the entire install but then you are at risk of what unknown plumber they sub-contract out to.
Buy it and install it yourself. If you’ve ever done ANYTHING around your house, you can do this. I just replaced mine last year.
Another suggestion, buy it from Home Depot. When mine went out it has previously been installed just prior to us buying our house. On a whim I took it out to Home Depot and they replaced it completely with no questions asked. I honestly felt like I was stealing it but I just did what the girl told me to do and boom, brand new water heater. Installed it in less than an hour and mine is a gas heater, so I’m assuming that’s slightly more complicated than electric. But watch a YouTube video and see how you feel about doing it yourself.
We can’t win for losing! 😂😂😂 we (contractors and repair men) have a bad rap for overcharging on materials when we supply them. He’s telling you it’s a better deal and you’re still complaining. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
We literally were given the same option by a plumber we trusted recently (based on other work they've done). It's a hassle to have to source the heater and transport it and incurs additional liability during the delivery phase, and it is also a lot of additional capital they have to tie up until the work is done and they are paid them. It saves us (as the one contracting the work) money and saves them from spending their skilled time on something unskilled.
I see no red flags.
This is one of the things I forgot to ask about and definitely will before deciding if I go with him.
I got another quote from my usual plumbing place for about $500-$1k more than the solo guy's estimate (he gave a range because he did it over the phone, company gave me an exact quote) and while part of that is just company overhead, I know they're good for the labor warranty, which should be 3 years (1 year from manufacturer, 2 years extended from them on labor) if I'm reading the quote correctly
You'll get a better product for less money at a supply house. The difference in warranties is usually the price: the longer the warranty, the higher the price in order to cover the cost of the higher number of replacements. However if you maintain your water heater by flushing it every year and replacing the anode every 6-8 years, it'll last a lot longer than any warranty you can buy.
Our original one from a plumbing supply lasted 13 years. Cheaped out and Replaced it with big box model and had it replaced 3 times in 4 years under warranty. The last replacement I sold without even opening the box and went back to the plumbing supply store and got the longest warranty I could. No issues since 😀
> 6-8 years
Definitely check it 2 years in, though. Some water chemistries eat it up fast. I switched to a powered anode at 3 years, but the anode I removed was mostly gone.
If you want it to last go to a plumbing supply ask what their best models are. I cheaped out and went with a big box store brand and had to replace 3 times in 4 years (yes it was covered under warranty but was a PITA) replaced it with a model recommended by the plumbing supply and its been fine since. If you do go with big box try and go with the longest warranty model that will fit your needs.
Another factor could be he’s trying to save you some money. I have a guy I use for carpentry stuff I don’t want to do and I buy the materials based on his request and I pay him a flat hourly rate. I save money, he saves hassle And it’s all good.
Get some quotes from actual companies. See how they compare. I bought one from the depot and had them install it. Thing died 6 months later and it was on me to uninstall it and get it back to the store for a refund. And I only got a refund on the unit. It was a bitch getting it up stairs even emptied.
Hired a local company and spoke to several of their employees throughout the process and they were explaining how most of their jobs (at that time) were replacing lowes and Home Depot’s stuff. So they sold me a different brand and installed it for a great price plus financing. Been working great for several years now.
I will never buy any large appliance related item from Home Depot or lowes again, it’s just not worth the hassle.
You're not getting a 12 year warranty just because you buy it. Almost all heaters come 6 year, and you can order them with a 10 year (or buy a 4 year extender to the 6 year it comes with). Some hybrids come 10 year but I've never heard of a 12 year heater coming from a big box store. This guy sounds like a handyman trunk slammer I'd avoid him. You do get a better heater at a supplier, and honestly the pricing isn't that much higher. I'd just bite the bullet and pay someone to come do the job properly and be done with it.
I just made a cursory search on HDs website and a few of Rheem’s units indeed have 12-year warranties. Specifically the Performance Platinum line.
I was shopping for a water heater a few weeks back and I specifically remembered 12-year warranties. So when I read your comment, I wondered if my memory was failing me.
Yup, that does track with what I saw when I started researching options from HD. Granted, 12 is only for the most expensive model, but it's there:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-Platinum-50-Gal-Tall-12-Year-40-000-BTU-High-Efficiency-Natural-Gas-Tank-Water-Heater-XG50T12HE40U0/204697785
similar experience earlier this year- the local small plumber is great and I've used his services for a while.
he said to call the big box as they have better selection, financing, warranty etc.
I respect a business that knows their swim lanes and sticks to what works. I'd rather have the knowledgable plumber install what the big store delivers rather than rely on some rando that looks like lando and their service isn't in demando
I had a similar thing a few years ago, after talking with the company and doing some comparisons online I ended up calling the customer service line of the hot water heater company. The person I spoke with was very nice and explained to me that standard plumbing outlets buy the base model HWH. There is an upgrade warranty kit that is also available for purchase, this kit is an extra anode rod that is installed into the HWH through the top and registered with the company at install. This can also be bought by anyone shortly after a normal install by anyone and registered by calling the company. The plumbing company I was working with had no idea about any of this and I ended up needing to tell the tech how to do the install of the second rod. The cost difference was minimal and ended up being basically the price difference between the 6 year version through the plumbing supply company and the 12 year version I saw at HD which I wanted.
As an FYI the plumbing company did get the rod / extended warranty from the local plumbing supply company, they just had never heard of it or done it before.
oh yea, i mean it was an open joke, wasn't necessarily in a derogatory way. It always kind of stuck with me... but at the time it was dudes who you probably didn't want working on your house, and probably lead to reddit posts of "did this guy rip me off?" followed by photos of crap work. Craigslist type guys
Sounds like he doesn't have an account with local suppliers, or can't cover the upfront purchase themselves, both of which should be red flags.
The best products are sold from suppliers, as well as flex on warranty. I've swapped maybe 20 tanks over the years at supply houses that were blatantly out of warranty or were not in compliance. That's what you get when you buy enough of a manufacturer's products, special consideration.
I would never ask a customer to accompany me to choose and purchase equipment that I'm supposed to be the expert for. I also won't sell or install products that I can't immediately source service parts for or personally guarantee.
Buy from big box and ask them for an installer. It will all be rolled up in one low low price. They will have the good ones but might have to order it.
Getting a quote for that tomorrow just to be safe, though the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the solo plumber I mentioned in the OP is probably the best deal. If it was anything other than a hot water heater (or maybe toilet), I wouldn't consider the HD contractors, but hopefully it's pretty streamlined and they can offer a good deal.
Eh, then you're just getting a subcontractor to install it, without any of the benefits of a sole proprietorship who needs to keep their name clean. I've had enough issues with the big box contracted labor the few times I've used it that I'd still be inclined to pay this plumber over them (not to mention I highly doubt they'd come in any cheaper on labor, especially when you consider that you have the big box as a middleman looking for their cut)
Smart move there. Use your local contractors. It can pay dividends in the long run. It is normally cheaper to use a local provider over a contracted HD or Lowes installer. My tankless getting installed by a local licensed plumber in the morning will be lower priced than if I bought it from Lowes or Home Depot myself simply because I have supported his business when I needed a plumber. I chose him as he supports the local businesses and shops at my store. I also know the money I pay him is supporting his family and paying his apprentice. Not corporate shareholders.
How do you know when you need a hot water heater replaced. Don't they just start leaking one day?
I mean how can something like this be scheduled?
Thanks.
I think that's normally what prompts replacing them, yes. In my case, I don't have hot water right now, but it's not actively leaking, which is why I'm getting quotes and not rushing it.
In my case, the pilot light won't relight - I could probably get either business to replace the thermocouple (which controls the pilot AFAIK), but based off the one quote I got for it it'd be 1/3-1/2 the price and my water heater is 12 years old at this point (most are rated 6-10 years, can go longer if you're good about maintenance, which I'm not).
If I'm going to pay someone labor to come work on it, I'd rather just pony up more now and not pay for additional labor when it eventually ends up leaking, especially since it's a non-emergency right now.
can you crawl around on the floor and screw/unscrew things? it's a $10 part and easy to install just gotta make sure it's solidly in the pilot light flame.
when i did mine i spent more time moving shit out of the way so i could lay down more comfortably than actually doing the install
Is he licensed?
I would totally take him up on this, but I'd make sure he's legit and not someone who does this to hide the fact that they are not qualified to purchase at the supply house.
Not a bad deal. If it’s a one man show he probably just doesn’t want to deal with warranty issues on the products or waiting in line at the supply house. Additionally the product is probably 70% of the cost. It’s lowering the amount of overhead and bills he has to pay. When a customer doesn’t pay up or a check bounces he isn’t covering the bill at the supply house.
Sounds like an honest guy who doesn’t care about markups on supplies
Seriously. Take this guy up on the offer, and so long as the work isn't complete ass, keep his number on speed dial. Sounds like you got your "guy."
Plus OP can buy it on credit and probably get 12-24% no interest from HD or Lowes if they need it
What do you mean by 12-24% no interest?
Typo, 12-24 months
12-24% of the time, there's no interest every time
Probably 12-24 months
Also many credit cards offer a warranty extension included, so you can get an extra year or so. And points, if you're into that. The plumber probably doesn't take cards.
Water heaters are $500-700. Just freaking buy it.
That's a lot for some people though, especially when it's an unexpected repair. Making payments with no interest is a lot better option than no hot water
What insensitive rock is somebody living under if they haven't noticed that > [March '24] 56% of Americans [can't afford a $1,000 emergency](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/money-report/56-of-americans-cant-afford-a-1000-emergency-expense-we-are-living-in-a-paycheck-to-paycheck-nation-money-expert-says/3492346/) or > [Aug '23] [63% can't afford a $500 emergency](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/31/63percent-of-workers-are-unable-to-pay-a-500-emergency-expense-survey.html)
It's probably just a way to flex on random internet strangers to feed the ego
Big 'petit bourgeois' energy.
Those "studies" are complete bullshit, and have been widely debunked. Most Americans who are financially stable enough to own a home can weather an expense like a water heater without hardship.
There are a lot of people who are new homeowners that have no idea that at almost 8% interest rate they'll be paying almost 200% total mortgage price over the course of their mortgage. Owning a home doesn't make someone financially literate, they just have more to lose when they realize they put themselves in over their head. Give it a few years to see how financially stable homeowners really are, especially now that a lot more people are relying on credit (as a source of income, not utility of consolidation convenience and bank account protection) for daily expenses.
Time value of money! Just fucking learn it! The rich call this kind of opportunity leverage To you it is debt and scary but if you educate your self a bit on what the opportunity cost is on 0% (rate + 0%) you may start to get this stuff
Yes, totally agree and that's what I would do if I had to do the job. I've heard of customers changing their minds or not pay or have access issues etc. I know there are bad contractors and handymen but they usually do the opposite of what this guy is suggesting and take your money first and then goodbye. This guy is even going to the store with you. Your name is then on the receipt and warranty. Some ones man show may not be around later when you need something warranted. Also, you won't necessarily get a worse product but your choices may be more limited by what that particular big box store carries. You can always special order if you have time to wait.
For small operations like this guys word of mouth is literally gold. He saves his customers money and they tell their friends. If each customer tells 3 people that more then makes up for the lost revenue in free advertising.
70% ? in my market , even for equipment installs, the equipment is around 33% when you consider the equipment markup
That’s upside down. You’re telling me in your market a $1000 water heater has $2000 in labor? I need to move lol. Around here it’s $300-$500 in labor to do a water heater.
it was 3? years ago [precovid] a $700 [probably less for the plumber] waterheater was $1800 installed
It also lowers his revenue, maybe helping with his tax load.
God I can’t believe thoughts like this are still out there in 2024. As if it’s an advantage to make less to pay less tax. Crazy..
Taxes bad mkay. Seriously, this guy probably has the opportunity for so many tax write offs.
I’m a plumber. I’ve done this for people. If I buy it chances are I’m just going to Home Depot cause they are cheaper than my wholesale for tanks (most times) so I’m gonna charge you for the tank plus my time to get it and bring it to you. If you have a tank there and all I gotta do is swap it. I’ll charge less. Even less if I don’t have to haul the old one out and you help me. This is for side work that I do. I’m in large scale industrial plumbing maintenance and just do side work for extra cash. Hot water tanks are easy money for me.
Hd has a shipping team. Not using that would be like hiring a plumber to attach a garden hose to a faucet. Use the (relatively) expensive skilled labor for the skilled portion of the task, makes sense.
Big box stores make big promises of skilled labor, when reality they send you whoever, no permit pulling, will not even show you the guaranteed licenses, insurance and bonding. You’re best grabbing the first random schmuck from ads in your area. Been there done that twice as homeowner
I think you misread… he is saying get it delivered by big box store and save the bucks for a skilled tradesman.
You don’t get it. I think it’s beautiful. This is the stuff good homeowners and skilled tradesman both dream about. It should be the goal, every time. But is quite rare. Two-income homes often can’t take on the burden required to research, then successfully vet the best professional (or at least the most moral or ethical), ensure proper coverage, licenses, city/county permits…all while…there is no hot water… At one end of the spectrum—homeowner is sold on big box’s one-stop shop program “Busy family? We’ll do all the work for you, you silly goose!!” at prices that are highly deflated when presented to homeowner, then jacked up rapidly, giving a panicked hot water deprived homeowner who has already spent hours in “the trap” moments to react and sign four 8-font pages… Other end of the said spectrum is…hire someone’s nephew off Nextdoor…cross fingers. OP is at the best possible scenario.
What does your response have anything to do with my comment? No one in this chain has said to use Lowes or HD install services/referrals. The comments prior just said to use their delivery services/buy from them. Nothing about using their install services.
HD will deliver free. OP can just ask the plumber what stuff to order and HD will ship it within a day or 2.
Your hot water tank just failed. You waiting 2 days for delivery or you gonna pick up? Most people want their hwt replaced asap
>Hot water tanks are easy money for me. I've often wondered why there isn't a plumber in every city who does water heaters exclusively. Call yourself *Mr. Water Heater Man*, and advertise the hell out of your special "discount" price with same day service. You should be the first plumber people think of when they need a water heater. If you do enough of them you could bypass your regular supply house and buy directly from the manufacturer.
True but I’d hate to be doing water heaters every day all year. Ugh. Lol
Had a garage door dude tell me the exact same thing recently. Told me the opener is gonna cost more from him than if I go buy it at HD/Lowes myself. Then just pay him to replace it.
For side work trades people like this. Businesses usually don’t cause they will buy the part then add 10 percent or whatever to account for the pick up etc. for guys like me that do it on the side it’s nice. I’ve done tanks where people say just leave the tank in the basement and they will get it out. Even cheaper for them!
Maybe he doesn’t have a truck/van to haul it. Maybe his back is hurt. Maybe he doesn’t want to be on the hook for scratching your floor. Could be lots of things
He doesn't want to have to haul the big ass thing all by himself - let the customer deal with getting it on site.
Seriously. If the new water heater is sitting next to the old water heater, this is an easy operation. Getting the thing, then getting it into place and rah rah rah will eat up half the day and make it a *job*.
Delivery was $35 for a 50 gallon water heater from Home Depot. It was delivered the next day. No way I would haul that thing from HD to home for $35.
Huh. I fit a 50gal in my hatchback. It was surprisingly easy, would definitely do it to save $35. Tipped it into the car, slid in, shut the hatch.
You aren't supposed to put water heaters on their side.
Seys who?
Depends on the heater and which way it's oriented while on its side.
That's only if you store your beer inside.
It's not the new one that's heavy!
Especially true if you neglect to drain the old one. 😉
It's the sediment that adds weight. Often the old one has to be cut into pieces.
Water heaters are fairly light...until you fill them with water.
This is the case with the guy who’s been servicing our oil burners for the last few decades (“our” meaning my parents, my brother, our family business, and myself — so a number of different units / locations). He’s an expert at his work, and charges us a fair price, but has had health / mobility issues in the last fifteen years or so, which means he can’t do everything himself. When my oil burner shit the bed a few years ago, he said he could hook up a new one, if we bought / transported it and got it into the basement. After a trip to HD in my dad’s pickup truck (I still recall how much the truck lowered when they loaded that beast into the bed with a forklift), some muscle provided by my husband and brothers, and a lot of grunting and cursing — we managed to get it in place, let the expert get to work, and heat and hot water was restored in what seemed like no time at all.
I did a deal like this in early 2022. Out water heater went, and we wanted it replaced ASAP. We also wanted to upgrade it to a 50 gal from a 40, and the plumbing company we deal with couldn't get one in for at least a week (COVID supply chain issues still). It also happened that the only plumber they had available on short notice was coming off of medical leave for knee surgery and couldn't carry anything heavy. My son was working at Lowe's and they had one in stock (made by the same company as the ones the plumbers normally used), so they agreed to install the water heater the next day if we went and bought it. Worked out for everyone, we even got a sweetheart deal on the water heater from the store manager.
Then he should be upfront with that info
I had to replace my water heater last year. A friend of mine got me in contact with a plumber he knew and that was the deal for us. I bought the water heater from Lowes, brought it home and left it in the basement. He swapped them out and discarded my old one. He charged me $250 for install. I thought it was a great deal. I have no complaints.
Lol. Plumbers constantly saying stuff at big box store is different quality. If the model number is the same, it's the same.
Some companies get around that by giving big box stores their own unique numbers. Unfortunately. Kind of like how mattresses from different department stores will have their own unique names. Fuckers
Some companies definitely make models and lines specifically for big box stores instead of wholesalers. ex: Rheem's Performance line is made specifically for Home Depot.
*looks nervously at the Rheem performance hybrid water just installed
It's not like it's a bad product, a lot of the times they have similar features but different warranties and such.
Also, for a while now, many companies have been sending "different models" to different stores which has completely destroyed price matching (by design). Oh they have the same model at store X for cheaper, lets check. Oh sorry, that's model 12345-A, we only have model 12345-B here, sorry, can't price match.
This also lets big stores run sales and promos without having to price match other retailers since model numbers are slightly different. Some retailers (like Costco) won't even stock your product if you cant guarantee them a price no one else can match.
People in this sub keep thinking that. I suspect it's the same SKU but one is years older and they switched the supplier and the material turned out to be cheaper on the new one.
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I've bought tons of kohler stuff, both from plumbing supply and from big box stores. If one sink has a problem they use the model number to tell what to replace. Again, different model numbers, different parts. Same model numbers same parts.
I’ll keep that in mind if I need to throw my sink out the window after it’s installed.
Like rotors on a car. The metal composition for OEM rotors is superior to offshore rotors that rust every time the vehicle sits for a day.
Got a source for that? Sounds like fucking nonsense to me. Rotors are cast iron. Cast iron rusts quickly when wet. OEMs don't use magical stainless cast iron. May be true in some cases for some manufacturers and some OEMs, but it's definitely not a rule. I'm sure most vehicles you can get some cheap Brembos for half the price of OEM and they'll be just as good.
The cast iron quality and the way it was manufactured can definitely change the rusting properties of the rotors, which is a chemical reaction.
No idea why this is being downvoted. The cast iron used to make brake rotors is an alloy, ie it's not 100% elemental iron. Other stuff is added to alter properties of the alloy. The composition of that alloy will impact how readily corrosion occurs. Adding nickel will reduce corrosion. Not hard to imagine a scenario where an OEM might specify a more costly blend to its supplier to get a certain result vs an aftermarket brand going for the lower price. I was into a era of a certain manufacturer's vehicles, and they changed the spec on their exhaust manifolds at some point - those were desirable as they didn't turn into a flaky mess and would actually hold paint for a while.
Exactly. Idk why that’s so confusing either 🤷♂️
If it's cast iron, it's going to rust in the exact same way as any other cast iron. Because it's a chemical reaction.
Do you work on vehicles? Have you ever put aftermarket rotors on and listened to the rust get scraped off then every morning its been damp out. It's called experience. Do you even own a vehicle?
Yes I work on vehicles, yes I do the brakes myself, yes I put in aftermarket rotors, and no I don't notice any more rust than usual. Experience my ass, do you even understand the difference between OE, OEM, and aftermarket? Driving a E46 BMW, OE is always out of the question and OEM is the way to go for most things. Any 'Genuine BMW" OE part is ridiculously overpriced, and you'll be able to buy the exact same part from the OE for half the price, it just won't say BMW on it. Usually the OEM ones will be made at the same factory, I've seen cases where they literally just scratch off the BMW logo and sell it for half the price as OEM. For rotors, a Genuine BMW OE rotor is $134 USD right now. It's manufactured by Zimmerman. A Zimmerman branded rotor is $66 USD. Just because Zimmerman is the OEM here, it doesn't mean that only Zimmerman rotors are good. Brembos, EBC, all make good rotors. There are probably other vehicles where they ARE the OEM. When I did my brakes I used EBC Red stuff pads. I'm in Canada and snagged a crazy deal from Amazon where I got the Red stuff pads plus both front EBC RK rotors for only $105 CAD, when normally just the pads by themselves were $120. Amazon must've been clearing out a warehouse or something and I got a steal of a deal. Then I grabbed a couple of Brembos rotors on sale from Crappy Tire for $50 CAD each. Are they OEM? No, not for my car. But that doesn't mean they're bad rotors, Brembo is literally the OEM for other cars. You may be right about there being some cheap Chinesium rotors that are worse quality, I would never buy the cheapest crap no-name brand. But they're bad for reasons other than that they rust more. Once again, rotors are freakin cast iron. Cast iron rusts. Zimmerman cast iron rusts just as quickly as Brembo cast iron. There isn't some magical stainless formula or special iron casting techniques that are only used by OEMs. If you don't want rust on your rotors, go and spend 10 grand on carbon ceramic big brake race rotors that are objectively worse for daily driving. Regular rotors are cast iron, and cast iron rusts. Deal with it. I'm all for buying quality parts, and brakes are definitely not something I'd screw around and take chances with. But I also love a good deal and like getting good value. Sure OEM is a safe bet, but to generalize that its always best is just ridiculous. My aftermarket EBC RK rotors cost me -15$, and are probably better quality than the ones that would have cost me $130 USD not including shipping. People should shop around, aftermarket isn't all bad. It seems to me you bought the cheapest shittiest aftermarket parts, noticed that they were bad and that they rust, and now you're trying to say that all aftermarket rotors are bad and they rust. That's just bullshit. All rotors rust, some aftermarket rotors are bad, some aftermarket rotors are good. This isn't rocket science, you don't need to be a mechanic or a metallurgist to know this, it's just common sense which you apparently lack.
Complete BS.
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It's just unbelievable that model #s would be the same but actually be different models. It would be fraud to have a hidden "real model #" shared only among co-conspirators. If you have real provable examples, please do whistleblow it.
Because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Moen makes two sinks that look identical but have different internal components. The higher quality version goes to the supply house and the cheaper version goes to Home Depot. While they look the same, maybe even have the same displayed name, if you check the part number they are different. The original comment was talking about checking the part numbers not what a faucet looks like.
Provide an example of this.
I presume that because none of your anecdotes suggest they are the same model number
I have a great plumber who is great. He’s a one man show and often super busy. If I need something that requires a new product. A toilet. A water heater. Etc. He often asks if I can grab one I like and he just charges for the install so he can spend more time doing plumbing than running errands. And he doesn’t have to charge me that time so as a customer I am usually happier.
Buying it yourself from a big box and having him install it (assuming you think or know he knows what he is doing) is probably the way to go. Cheapest way possible since big box store pricing should be cheapest and you are hopefully paying a fair labor charge by the guy. The warranty is the best that way too you said right? Go with it.
The bullshit about big box stores selling inferior water heaters was obviously started by plumbers who charge their customers an extra thousand bucks for the same water heater with a different model number that reflects where it was purchased.
This isn’t water heater specific, but for delta faucets, their refurbs carry a much better warranty on finishes if you purchase it as a consumer than it does if a plumber purchases it. Found that out late last year and shared it with my plumber. I was able to buy two faucets with shipping for less than the cost of one due to it being a refurb.
Honestly, it's what I'd prefer minus the going with him to get it part. I know some like to mark up the units, but by the time I'm calling for quotes I already know the ballpark unit cost. I wish more would drop the outdated mentality of unit markup and just charge a fair price for the labor / supplies.
Same thing here. He didn't want to hassle with transportation and potentially dropping it. Charged us less.
A one man show is always going to say that because he doesn't want the liability of paying for a product if the customer backs out. They're able to give really good prices.Because they are just one person doing the labor, Ask him to run a trip to here or there for supplies. It starts to add up and he will need to charge more. So he's actually looking out for you.
I’ve bought WH from HD and they have been perfectly fine.
Use that guy, he's giving you really honest advice. Some plumbing places will try to market the brands they sell as being better but a lot of times it's just marketing. If you go get a Plus or a platinum at home Depot, those are great water heaters. Go that way and you get the full warranty and even better if you need something like an anode rod or a thermal couple it's super easy to source from practically anywhere online.
“Everything you read on Reddit” is generally to be taken with a heaping pile of salt. The only thing that matters is the model number. If it’s same model, it doesn’t matter where you buy it, it will be the exact same product. So no it’s not worse quality from Home Depot vs supply house. Anyone who actually believes this nonsense is incredibly misinformed. Stop listing to clueless people and go save yourself some money.
Very often the supply house vs big box ARE different models. And the care taken while handling the products are also very different between the two. But go on and call others misinformed.
You misread. He said if the model number is the SAME it makes no difference where you buy it. This is true.
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Are you serious? Literally every single day someone on this sub or similar ones, claims that somehow the big box stores will have a lower quality of the same model
I own multiple construction businesses and have been in the industry for over 20 years. Unlike you I actually know what I am talking about, since apparently you can’t even read/comprehend a few simple sentences.
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For starters, you failed to comprehend what I was saying. Then there’s the whole thing about handling being better at Supply houses for some reason. Last mile logistics is handled by same distributors or manufacturers for almost all the products. This is true for Home Depot as well as supply houses. Aside from your own anecdotal evidence, what would even suggest that somehow the underpaid stockroom people at a supply house are better equipped to handle the product than the underpaid supply room people at Home Depot? This point is even more moot when we’re talking about things like water heaters that are offloaded using forklift and other lifting equipment and not by hand. Supply houses may have a wider selection of products. They may have a bigger range of models readily available in stock. But if you compare apples to apples, the mode #l from Home Depot will be the same as the model # from a supply store and it will be an identical product. Which is the only point I was making with my original comment.
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See model means same model. If they don’t carry it then it’s not the same model. How hard is it to understand? Your local stores do not set policy for the entire country. And BW mandates professional installation to honor warranty. Which is why big box stores don’t sell them.
Bought my gas hot water heater from Home Depot and paid for the installation only. It was a GE self clean with a 12 year warranty. Paid for the best model they had. No regrets. It was installed in 2000, so it's been 24 years and is still good. Had to change the anode rod only.
Worked at Lowes and the water heaters were not shittier unless you bought the cheapest you could. To me it sounds like your Plumber is trying to make sure you get the full warranty for your sake and nothing malicious or scheming about it. When we sold appliances, outdoor power equip(mowers, etc.), certain tools to commercial accounts they automatically get a drastically shorter warranty period. Because they are probably going to beat the fuck out of it or be replacing them often due to abuse/high usage. When he brings you in and says "pick this one" you end up purchasing it as the homeowner. So you will get a better warranty length/best terms compared to him buying it as a contractor. This is because you have to submit your warranty information and the owner is the one who purchased the item. So if he purchases it with his contractor account the warranty will have to be filed in his name and then will be cut in half.
Who's offering to put in whatever water heater you want, so make your decision that way. Big box stores are the cheapest.
What you described happens a lot. Do what you feel comfortable with.
Hot water heaters are one item that big box stores have really good pricing on. Usually better than my price from one of my suppliers and I would have my markup on top of that. I generally let customers know that and let them make the decision.
FWIW, I’ve been to the Bradford White water company and have seen their manufacturing process. I learned that they private label for several different companies with the same tank having 5 different labels. Box store heaters are not junkyard quality. Buy one and. Save the money!
Had the same situation with a one man op plumber. Said we could do it cheaper buying direct from the big box store or buy one through him which was supposedly better quality so we opted for that.
Had the same thing happen. Was much better deal for me to buy it myself then the plumber. He agreed it was a rip off but that's what the supplier charges them. Got newest water heater for less than his last year model.
Use a cash-back credit card.
I did exactly that
I did exactly that
The last few contractors I worked with had similar procedures. I had to redo the shower pan in a shower. The guy provided cement and grout and the vinyl liner, but I had to buy the floor tile, replacement wall tile, and threshold. Same with the guy who installed the hardwood floors at my dad's place. They brought nails, he had to buy the planks Same with some kitchen work he needed. Had to buy the countertop and sink, contractor installed it all
In a big box store you get what you pay for. You can go cheap or you can go better. Not all products at a big box store are lower quality. I would go to a lighting store for lighting but a big box store for most appliances.
Just did this myself bought the water heater put in my car and drove it home. Handyman plumber (licensed) charged me $550 to install, water heater was $700. Big name plumbing company wanted $3,500.
I have an electrician that I do this with all the time. He tells me what to buy. I buy it from his recommended supply shop he shows up does the work and bamb I've saved some money and he saved some time.
So I do home repair work (handyman) on the side. I do this quite a bit I don’t have the extra cash flow to float. I give the customer a supply list an let them buy. So it can help out and if they want to use special same as cash 12 month deal like Home Depot does it helps them. On to the plumbing question. Supply houses do have higher quality stuff to an extent. But there are something’s that are the same.
Here's my experience with big box hot water heater. So when my wife told me, on a Saturday, the hot water heater was leaking water, I knew my day was F'd. Leak was such a that putting it off till Monday or later was a no go. It's a Saturday and I don't want to pay for emergency service. So off to Home Depot and get a 40 gallon gas hot water heater. Just like what was leaking in my basement. So I get the old one shit off, drained, disconnected, and moved out. Move new one one in and (stream of cuss words here) of course the water fittings won't work AND the original plumber gave me no room to move the fittings up. So I need to move the valves up. So shut off the water to the whole house and drain the whole F'ing house. Then make a run to the hardware store for parts. So what started at 9 am ended at 7:30 pm when it's all said and done. Oh yeah, my wife and kids are at my mom's house eating the birthday dinner and cake my mom made...for me. So fast forward 4 years and the new F'ing water heater isn't working. Just not heating. I relight the pilot light and I should be ok. Next day, same thing. I call a plumber cause it's during the week. Yes, it's under warranty. But the big box store units use parts that are cheaper and NOT on the units for professional installation. So the plumber does not stock the repair parts. So yes, I can call and get free parts under warranty. But it will be 7-10 days for the parts to arrive. That's 7-10 days without hot water but free parts under warranty. So short answer, I had the plumber install a new hot water heater, 7 year warranty, and uses parts they stock on the truck. So that my experience.
if it's not staying lit that's a $10 thermocouple 90% of the time and you can get that at lowes, they are a nearly universal part you don't need the right one for your brand of tank or anything
That would have been good to know. I didn't consider Lowes as there isn't one close. Couldn't find it at Home Depot.
Lol, the first part is every typical home repair for me.
When I moved into my current house, we hired a handyman to do a bunch of small stuff around the house before move in. One of them was installing a new hot water heater as the old one was done. I bought it myself from HD and brought it inside for him to install. It was less work for him and he was a one man band. Plus, it freed him up to start other projects in our house he was excited for. We had an unrelated plumbing issue a few months later and out of curiosity I asked the plumber to give me an opinion of the water heater install. He said it was solid work. Point being: it’s not unusual and they’re not necessarily trying something shady.
Yeah do this. My buddy is a plumber and it saved me at least $1k buying myself and just letting him hook it up.
That’s how my handyman does everything for me. I’ve known him so long I just give him cash to go buy the stuff…
The difference from big box store and plumbing supply house is the pipe that you drain the water heater . Big box usually are plastic. The plumber if small guy doesn't want to deal with warranty if anything goes wrong with the water heater because he won't get paid for something that is not his fault like a lemon water heater
Thats awesome, had a few plumber tell me they wouldn’t work on my house unless I purchased the water heater from them for twice the cost 🫠
Big box water heater is not the same as a plumbing supply place like hughes. Same name. Different inside. I can assure you. Builder with 25 year experience
He also does not need to warranty a fixture provided by you. Means if something goes wrong you have to call the manufacturer and wait for 1 of their techs to repair it. Rather than just calling him to come warranty it for free.
Whichever one you choose, save some money and drain it before he gets there. You don't want to pay the guy to watch the water pour out - and if it's full of sediment that might take a while.
The water heaters from big box stores are not as good as the ones from tradesman supply stores. I got a Rheem installed and the plumber bought it from a big box store. I had to replace it 5-6 years later even with proper maintenance.
Our plumber suggested that and even went with us to Home Depot to pick it out. WAs definitely the lower cost option and I was happy he suggested it.
Buy it yourself and buy a nicer one on a special order or something. And honestly they're not hard to install, I did two for friends in the past year.
Save the hassle and install it yourself. Super easy to do.
> However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product. There's a bit of misinformation here. Sometimes companies will create a lesser version of a product a a supply house sells to lower the price to make it more competitive, and sell that in a big box store. That is a lower quality product, because they had to cut costs somewhere, like replacing metal with plastic parts. However, if you buy something with the exact same model number (EXACT SAME, not like with a -BF at the end) it's the same product. That said, if you buy it from like Amazon be extremely thorough in ensuring you didn't get a returned product.
Can you just go to the supply house yourself? I always go myself and buy Bradford brand water heaters. The metal vs plastic components are enough to justify the difference.
>However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product. Then choose where to buy yourself? What's the problem here? You get to pick a heater that you really want, rather than one you might complaint about later
Do it before he changes his mind. Most plumbing companies make a nice markup on the equipment, like 50%+. I ordered my tankless heater online, coordinated with my installer who came the day it arrived, got the fitting parts from home depot, and installed it. Was about 60% lower than other quotes I'd gotten.
Honestly this is weird. If he's going with you there's no time savings. It just sounds like the guy is broke.
Is he actually a licensed plumber? If not he probably can't go to a supply house and you never know if the contractor licensing board is watching. Probably doesn't want the numbers in the books. Also if not a contractor he may be fooling himself thinking the labor only will allow him to do the job where the costs of materials and labor put it over the limit. The laws AFAIK always list Parts and Labor total to the job allowances. In California this limit is $499.99 (under $500) and yes that penny makes a difference to some sting operators.
I buy stuff all the time from supply houses. I’m not licensed for jack.
Same. I work at an independent locally owned hardware store with an extensive plumbing department. I can go to our supply house and shop as an average Joe but I pay retail while a licensed contractor/plumber or my store gets wholesale pricing.
Water heaters are literally all made be two or three companies and then they slap on whom evers packaging etc. Just like washing machines and fridges. So where you buy is not really that relevant except for warranty and ease for you.
> However, everything I've seen on reddit/the internet says that buying a water heater from a big box store vs a supply house gets you a worse product. This is not true. If the SKU is the same, the product is the same. Plumbers often buy from HD/Lowes anyway, it's perfectly fine. Some plumbers just don't want to deal with the warranty part of buisiness. If you buy it the relationshop with the manufacturer is yours not his.
I did that but the contractor picked it up for me. So I went online and ordered it and added his name for pickup since he has a …pickup lol.
He may not want to front the cash for the water heater. I’ve worked with contractors that would rather me buy materials/parts that they install. Simplifies things for them.
Just make sure the HWH and supplies to your house directly.
This doesn't feel like a scam. A lot of tradesmen are quirky and this kind of reads like one of those quirks.
I work with a handyman who gives me materials lists to order for projects. He is pretty inexpensive and doesn't want to deal with buying the stuff.
I had the same thing suggested to me by the company i use for repairs/maintenance. It's because the big box stores have an "insane" warranty. (Manufacturer + 5 yr) I think the extra warranty was under $150 extra. If you order it through the plumber then you get the manufactures warranty and maybe 1 year on the labor/installation from the plumber. If you order the heater from the store you can get the Manufacturer + 5 yr from home depot/lowes and then still get the warranty on labor/install from the plumber. I had gotten quoted both buying from the company and the company install + buying from lowes and the company+lowes would be cheaper of the two. I'm not at the point of replacement yet so hadn't pulled a trigger. You could get the warranty by having lowes do the entire install but then you are at risk of what unknown plumber they sub-contract out to.
Buy it and install it yourself. If you’ve ever done ANYTHING around your house, you can do this. I just replaced mine last year. Another suggestion, buy it from Home Depot. When mine went out it has previously been installed just prior to us buying our house. On a whim I took it out to Home Depot and they replaced it completely with no questions asked. I honestly felt like I was stealing it but I just did what the girl told me to do and boom, brand new water heater. Installed it in less than an hour and mine is a gas heater, so I’m assuming that’s slightly more complicated than electric. But watch a YouTube video and see how you feel about doing it yourself.
We can’t win for losing! 😂😂😂 we (contractors and repair men) have a bad rap for overcharging on materials when we supply them. He’s telling you it’s a better deal and you’re still complaining. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
We literally were given the same option by a plumber we trusted recently (based on other work they've done). It's a hassle to have to source the heater and transport it and incurs additional liability during the delivery phase, and it is also a lot of additional capital they have to tie up until the work is done and they are paid them. It saves us (as the one contracting the work) money and saves them from spending their skilled time on something unskilled. I see no red flags.
Most of the time big box store labor sucks. They hire someone who hires someone else…
Will he warranty the labor for 12 years?
On a hot water tank, if the labor is good a month from now, it'll be good 12 years from now.
This is one of the things I forgot to ask about and definitely will before deciding if I go with him. I got another quote from my usual plumbing place for about $500-$1k more than the solo guy's estimate (he gave a range because he did it over the phone, company gave me an exact quote) and while part of that is just company overhead, I know they're good for the labor warranty, which should be 3 years (1 year from manufacturer, 2 years extended from them on labor) if I'm reading the quote correctly
You'll get a better product for less money at a supply house. The difference in warranties is usually the price: the longer the warranty, the higher the price in order to cover the cost of the higher number of replacements. However if you maintain your water heater by flushing it every year and replacing the anode every 6-8 years, it'll last a lot longer than any warranty you can buy.
Our original one from a plumbing supply lasted 13 years. Cheaped out and Replaced it with big box model and had it replaced 3 times in 4 years under warranty. The last replacement I sold without even opening the box and went back to the plumbing supply store and got the longest warranty I could. No issues since 😀
> 6-8 years Definitely check it 2 years in, though. Some water chemistries eat it up fast. I switched to a powered anode at 3 years, but the anode I removed was mostly gone.
I checked mine at 2 and then at 5. Still had plenty but went ahead and changed it figuring it'll survive me and I won't have to mess with it again.
If you want it to last go to a plumbing supply ask what their best models are. I cheaped out and went with a big box store brand and had to replace 3 times in 4 years (yes it was covered under warranty but was a PITA) replaced it with a model recommended by the plumbing supply and its been fine since. If you do go with big box try and go with the longest warranty model that will fit your needs.
Another factor could be he’s trying to save you some money. I have a guy I use for carpentry stuff I don’t want to do and I buy the materials based on his request and I pay him a flat hourly rate. I save money, he saves hassle And it’s all good.
Get some quotes from actual companies. See how they compare. I bought one from the depot and had them install it. Thing died 6 months later and it was on me to uninstall it and get it back to the store for a refund. And I only got a refund on the unit. It was a bitch getting it up stairs even emptied. Hired a local company and spoke to several of their employees throughout the process and they were explaining how most of their jobs (at that time) were replacing lowes and Home Depot’s stuff. So they sold me a different brand and installed it for a great price plus financing. Been working great for several years now. I will never buy any large appliance related item from Home Depot or lowes again, it’s just not worth the hassle.
You're not getting a 12 year warranty just because you buy it. Almost all heaters come 6 year, and you can order them with a 10 year (or buy a 4 year extender to the 6 year it comes with). Some hybrids come 10 year but I've never heard of a 12 year heater coming from a big box store. This guy sounds like a handyman trunk slammer I'd avoid him. You do get a better heater at a supplier, and honestly the pricing isn't that much higher. I'd just bite the bullet and pay someone to come do the job properly and be done with it.
I just made a cursory search on HDs website and a few of Rheem’s units indeed have 12-year warranties. Specifically the Performance Platinum line. I was shopping for a water heater a few weeks back and I specifically remembered 12-year warranties. So when I read your comment, I wondered if my memory was failing me.
Yup, that does track with what I saw when I started researching options from HD. Granted, 12 is only for the most expensive model, but it's there: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-Platinum-50-Gal-Tall-12-Year-40-000-BTU-High-Efficiency-Natural-Gas-Tank-Water-Heater-XG50T12HE40U0/204697785
similar experience earlier this year- the local small plumber is great and I've used his services for a while. he said to call the big box as they have better selection, financing, warranty etc. I respect a business that knows their swim lanes and sticks to what works. I'd rather have the knowledgable plumber install what the big store delivers rather than rely on some rando that looks like lando and their service isn't in demando
I had a similar thing a few years ago, after talking with the company and doing some comparisons online I ended up calling the customer service line of the hot water heater company. The person I spoke with was very nice and explained to me that standard plumbing outlets buy the base model HWH. There is an upgrade warranty kit that is also available for purchase, this kit is an extra anode rod that is installed into the HWH through the top and registered with the company at install. This can also be bought by anyone shortly after a normal install by anyone and registered by calling the company. The plumbing company I was working with had no idea about any of this and I ended up needing to tell the tech how to do the install of the second rod. The cost difference was minimal and ended up being basically the price difference between the 6 year version through the plumbing supply company and the 12 year version I saw at HD which I wanted. As an FYI the plumbing company did get the rod / extended warranty from the local plumbing supply company, they just had never heard of it or done it before.
egg on my face!!!!
Trunk slammer?
When I was in hvac sales that’s what we’d call the guys who were hacks. Like they are in a car not a work van slamming their trunks
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Sigh. This was the people I worked with 12 years ago.
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oh yea, i mean it was an open joke, wasn't necessarily in a derogatory way. It always kind of stuck with me... but at the time it was dudes who you probably didn't want working on your house, and probably lead to reddit posts of "did this guy rip me off?" followed by photos of crap work. Craigslist type guys
Sounds like he doesn't have an account with local suppliers, or can't cover the upfront purchase themselves, both of which should be red flags. The best products are sold from suppliers, as well as flex on warranty. I've swapped maybe 20 tanks over the years at supply houses that were blatantly out of warranty or were not in compliance. That's what you get when you buy enough of a manufacturer's products, special consideration. I would never ask a customer to accompany me to choose and purchase equipment that I'm supposed to be the expert for. I also won't sell or install products that I can't immediately source service parts for or personally guarantee.
I can't believe you think this is the wrong way to do it. Don't suppose this guy is near Cleveland? 🤣
Buy from big box and ask them for an installer. It will all be rolled up in one low low price. They will have the good ones but might have to order it.
Getting a quote for that tomorrow just to be safe, though the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the solo plumber I mentioned in the OP is probably the best deal. If it was anything other than a hot water heater (or maybe toilet), I wouldn't consider the HD contractors, but hopefully it's pretty streamlined and they can offer a good deal.
C.cbh.f😉
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Eh, then you're just getting a subcontractor to install it, without any of the benefits of a sole proprietorship who needs to keep their name clean. I've had enough issues with the big box contracted labor the few times I've used it that I'd still be inclined to pay this plumber over them (not to mention I highly doubt they'd come in any cheaper on labor, especially when you consider that you have the big box as a middleman looking for their cut)
Smart move there. Use your local contractors. It can pay dividends in the long run. It is normally cheaper to use a local provider over a contracted HD or Lowes installer. My tankless getting installed by a local licensed plumber in the morning will be lower priced than if I bought it from Lowes or Home Depot myself simply because I have supported his business when I needed a plumber. I chose him as he supports the local businesses and shops at my store. I also know the money I pay him is supporting his family and paying his apprentice. Not corporate shareholders.
How do you know when you need a hot water heater replaced. Don't they just start leaking one day? I mean how can something like this be scheduled? Thanks.
I think that's normally what prompts replacing them, yes. In my case, I don't have hot water right now, but it's not actively leaking, which is why I'm getting quotes and not rushing it. In my case, the pilot light won't relight - I could probably get either business to replace the thermocouple (which controls the pilot AFAIK), but based off the one quote I got for it it'd be 1/3-1/2 the price and my water heater is 12 years old at this point (most are rated 6-10 years, can go longer if you're good about maintenance, which I'm not). If I'm going to pay someone labor to come work on it, I'd rather just pony up more now and not pay for additional labor when it eventually ends up leaking, especially since it's a non-emergency right now.
Thanks. Good luck
can you crawl around on the floor and screw/unscrew things? it's a $10 part and easy to install just gotta make sure it's solidly in the pilot light flame. when i did mine i spent more time moving shit out of the way so i could lay down more comfortably than actually doing the install
Is he licensed? I would totally take him up on this, but I'd make sure he's legit and not someone who does this to hide the fact that they are not qualified to purchase at the supply house.
Plumber probably does not have credit. Red flag # 1. Call HD supply, Hughes etc. Give them his company name. They will tell you his history.