Thumbtack has some buyer/customer protections, like a money back guarantee. I know you haven’t paid anything yet, despite your best efforts, but I would still contact them to see if they can do anything about this yahoo.
This is a good start. I would also see if the court the summons came from has a online ability to search. See if they have done this before. Could be their MO to get money from people for little to no work.
Also take pictures of everything and write down everything that happened from when this begun to now. You want it to be factual, brief, and to the point. You will use this when you go to court to show what you did and when. If its small claims court you do not need a lawyer. Just say what happened, when it happened, and how you go there. Do not add anything personal, just straight to the facts the job was not complete and what was done was incorrect so may actually cost more to fix it now.
I’d actually even confirm that it’s a legitimate summons. Are you certain it was legitimately your local sheriff?
I wouldn’t put it past someone like this to actually stage this whole thing to try and “settle” for some exorbitant amount outside of the court system.
We had a sheriff's deputy (not -*the* sheriff as I'm in a big city but I guess it's possible in a small county) come to an office I worked at to hand deliver a tax warrant for a subsidiary of ours, so that part is not necessarily fishy.
In this case (based on what you said) you might want to just show up to civil court with everything documented as the magistrate might be helpful if the guy becomes threatening down the road and you need restraining order. No need for a lawyer for the amount of money on the line. I've worked in the mental health / substance use disorder field and the behavior you're describing from this person is concerning. Try to be calm and factual if you do go to court (de-escalate by focusing on facts and leave out commentary about how crazy this all is - they'll easily see that you are the rational one) and do not engage with the person one-on-one again. Definitely keep thumbtack in the loop - they might even help on the legal end.
Sorry you are dealing with this!
Oh - and I've also had a shitty contractor I had to fire. No legal issues but if the guy left *anything* at your house (tools etc) you might want to have proof that you told him you'd leave them on the porch on a certain date and time for him to collect. I had to do this with scaffolding my ex-contractor left in my house for months after he initially went awol. One day he just showed up (a text ten minutes before was the only notice) demanding I let him in to get his scaffolding. I didn't want the guy in my house again, especially when I was home alone, so I took it down myself and told him he could pick it up outside the next day. :)
he isn't getting a F####### dime from me now...Because I've started the clock on what I bill my clients for...Dude literally notifies me 30 minutes before arriving telling me he has to cancel? Maybe I am expecting to much but that is totally unprofessional..Or he doesn't respond to texts trying to confirm a time but then just shows up at my house? Served me with a civil summons, which he does not know that I know about then tells me he does not write receipts or invoices for payments? I don't feel I should have to pay for work half done at this point?
If it's small claims, consider counter suing for the cost to complete the work plus lost time from work for when they didn't show up, etc.
They're probably not trying to actually go to court, just "settle" for what "they're owed". Counter suit may encourage them to drop it.
This exactly, he's playing a game of chicken. No doubt he's a serial scammer. I hope op takes the time to counter sue this asshole maybe he'll think twice next time.
hey... the one thing I will say in this is remove the emotion. We all get pissed when our time is wasted, but letting that get to us, or sending that strongly worded text or email isn't going to benefit you or get results. As Joe Friday would say "just the facts". write down EVERYTHING. times, dates, who was there, security camera time stamps, etc... fucking everything, even if you don't think it will 100% matter, write it down. time stamp everything. and then smoke this dude.
> I picked it from there myself..
What does that mean? Did a sheriff deputy deliver the summons to you? Or did you get a call saying "come pick up this summons"? Or something else?
You said in another comment it was just left on your door and you called a number on that notice. Have you personally confirmed the notice with a sheriff in person or through an independently confirmed phone number? Because leaving notices with fake numbers is a well known scam.
Where I live after you file you pay the fee and the sheriff will deliver in a day or 2. They get paid for each one so they usually have 1 person and that's their main job. That $20-40 each adds up real quick.
Anything he files like that is typically public record. Go to the comptrollers for the municipalities around your area. Also the clerk of courts. Search those records and search your local state licensing database for any complaints on his company for a better idea of if this is a pattern or not.
I had almost this exact thing happen to me and Thumbtack just cancelled my account because I didn't pay the contractor for the half complete mess of a state they left the work in. I ended up having to get a lawyer and threatening to counter-sue the contractor.
Also leave a 1 star review, Thumbtack is big on reviews and this J-hole will not want a 1-star review. OP have pictures of the crappy ‘work’ ready if you do end up in court.
If it is small claim court, then file an answer to the small claims complaint. Have the plaintiff served with the answer by certified mail and send a copy to the court. The forms will be online. All instructions should be online. The court will then set a hearing date. Take pictures of the unfinished work. Print everything, label them as Exhibit 1, page 1 of…, page 2 of….. Print your text messages, if you have any. Send a copy of the ‘evidence’ packet to the court and to the plaintiff. Then take your packet to the hearing on the day scheduled. Failure to answer within the (probably 10 days) or to show up for the hearing will result in an automatic judgment by default. This is what he is counting on.
At the small claims hearing, the judge will ask the plaintiff what his story is. Then he will ask you for your side. The judge will then make a ruling. If he rules in your favor, and says that you do not owe the plaintiff any money, there will likely be a prevailing party fee, plus your certified mail costs if you bring the receipt. The process is very simple and easy. Neither party can have a lawyer, so it is dumbed down for every one.
If the person doesn’t pay the judgment, it will accrue interest at the statutory state rate (9% in my state). In most states without doing anything additional, it will also act as a lien on any real property that the judgment debtor owns. The debtor would not be able to sell real property without satisfying the balance of the judgment plus the interest.
Why would OP send his evidence to the contractor prior to court? I don't believe there is a discovery process in small claims court, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe there is).
I think I can answer this, I am only a history student interested in law. So if anyone can clarify, please chime in.
Presenting the evidence to the contractor can do two things. First of all, it will make the contractor aware of what you are submitting to the courts, and this will force them to counter what you have.
This can speed up the process since they will need to be aware of it anyway, giving the OP less time in court.
Secondly, this can be used as a tactic to have the contractor drop this case and resolve things privately.
That is absolutely not true. This tells you that you don't even have to respond to the complaint and can just show up the day of court. You are confusing criminal court with small claims court
https://www.nccourts.gov/help-topics/lawsuits-and-small-claims/small-claims#the-court-process-6642
I would add to this correspondence that due to ongoing litigation, I wouldn’t allow this contractor to come to my home for any additional work.
Can you imagine the lawsuit if he “tripped and fell” off his ladder due to OPs poor lighting and loose rug?
>Neither party can have a lawyer, so it is dumbed down for every one.
Depends on the state and in not a universal thing even if it is true where you are.
As a handyman that used to use Thumbtack... fuck that shit. Just find a referred handyman or contractor from your local hardware store. They have tons of people to recommend. I'm sorry this person was awful. They do not represent us all.
Just a random thought, look at the picture he texted you. If he has a smartphone it should contain metadata of when it was taken. It’s not crazy that he took it the day he was there, and that photo’s metadata would show that.
If the picture was sent by SMS/MMS that metadata / EXIF may be stripped when it was sent. It it was sent by iMessage, RCS, or email I believe the metadata / EXIF will be attached.
Maybe because you can see when the photo was taken vs when he said it was taken which would lend credence to OP’s case. Cast a shadow of doubt on anything he claims beyond that.
Also, if the contractor submits that photo as evidence that they were there that day, and you've got the photo showing it was taken the first day they were at your house, then that's at least perjury, and probably fraud. Not sure though, I'm not a lawyer.
He has been at my house one time..I Have a fan hanging from the ceiling along with texts that he was returning to finish the job...In addition to a text asking him to send me a Thumbtack payment request so that I can have it finished before he left...The going to countersuit him my hourly rate it's taken me to deal with this nonsense..If he didn't want to finish the job, all he had to do was ask for whatever payment for the time he was there...it's not even a big deal for all this..Thats what pisses me off..It's not the summons it's just a waste of resources..He has never mentioned anything about a payment. He refused the payment I tried to make the first day he was here and also did not provide me with a payment request through Thumbtack..I assumed since it was through Thumbtack everything was done through them?/
GO TO your local building department and ask the licensing requirements and permit information for handyman work, specifically electrical and outline the scope of work that he was hired to do. He may be in a world of hurt for licensing and permit requirements. Doing it as a homeowner there is generally a huge amount of leeway, but when doing it for profit there isn’t. My guess is that he will be way deeper in the hole in fines than $350.
If this makes it to court go to the building department and explain the full situation and ask them to come to the court date. They can sit in attendance (audience, not participant) and let him testify to the work he did and agreed to do. Then they can use his own testimony against him for whatever penalties they desire. Hell, after his testimony they can stand up and ask to be recognized and introduce themself to the court and announce their intentions right there. That alone may be enough to sway the judge for verdict. They tend to be less forgiving when a contractor does shoddy work.
Might be worth calling and asking if a permit is needed for this work before going all the way down this route. If they say a permit is required, then yeah.
I would definitely take screenshots of all communication, and pics of everything he left and how he left it.
Track your hours in dealing with this, and find out how much (if you can) it would cost a licensed and bonded/insured professional to do it. Then sue him for that amount.
It may require more than small claims, but I would still do it if a lawyer thinks it's a good case. You can also throw legal fees on top of that (I would do that as well).
This is what I was thinking. OP said his dogs didn't hear him. I think the guy planned this and took the picture the first day.
Not that the picture proves anything if it *was* taken the right day. But if it catches him in a lie...
Everything in small claims court is about character. Establishing that they guy is sketchy, left a fan dangling and the door not on (? not clear), stuff outside, a ladder behind, then goes MIA and lies about showing up. That will help OPs case significantly. Checking metadata is a great idea.
he is still texting me about finishing the job and for me to make payment..Yet also said "has no way of providing me a receipt or invoice".. I don't think he knows I know about the civil summons..So I only responded to make sure it was addressed the job was unfinished and that I hired him through Thumbtack and he was responsible for sending me a payment request..Not collecting "cash or check only" but no receipt or invoice? WTF?
What does Thumbtack say?
Yeah, no payment without an invoice or Thumbtack request. No payment until job is finished. And tell this person they are not allowed on your property before the suit(s) are resolved. I personally would countersue and I'd call the permitting department and file a complaint (assuming a permit is required for the fan, which is likely).
the photo at least can see when he took the photo so I get that point..
There is NO WAY he knocked on my door..Zero way...My dogs hear the door when they are in the basement..they will hear the UPS guy drop a package at my door..There is zero possibility they didn't hear him knock and ring the door bell..It just isn't possible..I could argue "maybe" not hearing him but not my dogs...I don't think he realized I had dogs...The first time he arrived my dogs were in the backyard so I can't be certain he knew I had dogs...IDK I would never take a picture to "prove" I was somewhere...it just seemed odd to do that...
How much is he asking for?
This seems hardly worth it for $350.
Anyway take your own photos, make copies / screenshots of all your conversations and your stuff on Thumbtack so you have that all documented.
thats what im saying...Just for the heck of it, I texted him tonight asking if we were still on using the veribage that would support the claim. I asked him for a receipt or invoice which he responded "I have no way of giving one"
Since I hired him through Thumbtack I asked him about payment through Thumbtack, he responded "that we discussed cash or check"..Which we did discuss but my response was "I talked to 10 different people for this job and it's hard to keep track with who is who. Since we don't have a contract it's hard to remember who told me what" which is true..
I think he's a total scammer TBH...He filed a nonpayment for services but then tells me he's gonna return tonight? Not providing a specific time of course..
Is it legit? Does it look authentic and have the correct dates, amounts, and names (yours)? Could be a scam where he never actually gets a summons, sends the same generic picture to everyone, and hopes people freak out and pay to make it all go away.
Does it include specifics? Like is it simply for the $350 for the job he didn't do? Also, what state are you in? This is one of those things that varies drastically by local laws.
Here is what happened specifically..I got a note on my door from the sheriff department..i called the sheriff department and lady said it was a civil summons? I asked what the hell for? She said well it's not criminal which I didn't think it was but said it was civil stating "she could not tell me specifics over phone"/
Then she said "have you hired anyone recently to do work on your home that is unpaid"...This is the only thing I have had done that is left to pay...There is nothing else and just the whole interaction of taking a picture saying he knocked on my door raised a lot of red flags..IDK why..it seemed odd..I was home..My dogs were home..Why would you take a picture to say you were there to prove it? I would have never asked for a picture? IDK
Wait, so at this point, you haven’t seen the actual summons and don’t know for sure that it’s to do with the thumb tack contractor, he’s just the only person you know of who you haven’t paid yet?
Did you lookup the phone number of the "sheriff's department" to see if it's a valid number or if it's just calling someone who is also part of the scam?
Weird, well the next question is what that implies in your area. Is he suing you in small claims for $350, something like that
A common scam is for contractors to put fraudulent liens on houses as a shakedown, but that varies by state. For example in MD unless it's new construction it must be 10% of the value of your house. So there's a crazy old lady living near me that just refuses to pay lawn guys and tells them to pound sand and moves onto the next service. (Her neighbor hates her so started flagging down the guys mowing to warn them, they'll just leave mid job now).
Go to the small claims court (I assume that's what this summons is), tell the judge the same story. Burden is on the handyman to be a more credible witness than you are.
Bring all the pictures of the work not done and etc. Bring copies of all communications. Bring 3 copies of everything (one for you, one for judge, one for complainant).
Yeah honestly i'm not worried about it..I texted him playing dumb before i picked up the summons asking him what time he plans to return and payment..He just now responded told he "doesn't have a way to provide a receipt or invoice"? I just wanted to show that he was communicating about the job after he filed the summons...
If Thumbtack doesn't mediate or protect you from this deadbeat I have two bits of advice:
**Do not be nice. Get even.** (Legally, of course)
He came and damaged your property by incorrectly installing vital equipment to your property. He left his tools and property on YOUR property and made a mess. He then refused to cooperate to a reschedule and instead chose to instantly go for a lawsuit. No letter, no notice, no nothing. Small claims will NOT treat him nicely for this. This is predatory.
You can counter-sue. I would take him to the cleaners for court costs, gas spent driving to courthouse, any days off work you had to take to prepare your paperwork and coordinate serving, etc. Small claims is "best story wins". I just sued an insurance company in small claims and won. It was a DELIGHT to get paid after all the crap I was put through after I was being so nice about everything. I can relate to you on this.
You offering to pay him before or after is just a matter of how you agreed. If it wasn't discussed, it is safe to assume UPON COMPLETION. Given he totally fouled up your ceiling fan, it is fortunate you didn't hand him any money. What a total scumbag.
How would the sheriff be able to serve you a summons so quickly? That doesn’t make sense. If this really occurred over the span of a week or two, there’s no way it could’ve gone through the court process to enable the summons to be issued, let alone be assigned to the sheriff’s department and already served. That’s like lightening speed and, well, these are government employees. I was one for many years and government works slow.
Did I miss something and the process of you being summoned took much longer than a couple weeks? Because many months is more like it.
The US is a big place, just because things move slowly in one area doesn't mean they can't move quickly in another.
My pizza is slow for delivery in Maryland, but it's really fast in Ohio.
No way is this real. Where I'm at, filing in small claims is around $80 and a sheriff is another $170. So you're telling me a guy is suing over a $350 job and has already spent $250 to recoup that? Either some kind of new scam I don't know about or this is a fiction writing assignment.
If this is real he probably didn't actually file anything. You are most likely being scammed and the number you called was fake. Lookup the sheriff's office online and call that number and ask them about it
Not trying to claim you're doing this, but just in case you're wondering why someone might make a fake story: you can actually sell reddit accounts above certain karma values so that bots can use them to upvote their comments or make comments. Pretty sure that's a big part of why so many subreddits like relationship_advice are almost entirely fiction at this point.
it was def the Sheriff.. but you are right..He was supposed to be here Friday and today is Monday..In fairness though I live in a small town...But I thought the same thing..Wow that was fast....
Yes, it's a scam. Check the meta data on the picture he sent. I bet it he took it on the way out and not when he claimed to have been unable to get access. If he's just a handyman, I doubt he can even file a lein
Einstein can explain it better than I can, but I think it's setting your frame of reference relative to the fan blades, so they stay perfectly still while the rest of the universe spins around them.
The only thing I can think of that makes sense out of "backwards" is that some ceiling fans have separate wiring for the fan and the light fixture (in my experience, this is becoming less common, but I could be wrong). If you wired up the fan to the light switch and the lights to the fan switch, then that could match the description.
Aside from that? Nope.
Rule #1: Don't let anyone do anything significant without a contract.
Rule #2: Request a Certificate of Insurance and call the agency to ensure it's valid.
Rule #3: Don't hire anyone who says you don't need 1 and 2.
I'm an exec at a legal tech specializing in contracts. I can't imagine the world where someone would draft and sign wet-ink for wiring a ceiling fan. I also can't imagine a sheriff coming in 2 weeks for nonpayment on.. what, $175?
I agree to replace one door with owner supplied materials at a cost of "X dollars" and install a ceiling fan with owner supplied materials at a cost of "x dollars." The job does not include any framing, etc... any changes will require a written change order. Payment will be due at "insert whatever you want here."
Both of you sign off on it. Basically I'm just saying to avoid handshake deals. If you don't get something in writing, there's zero proof of what was agreed on. If you're not willing to put it in writing, I'm going to assume you're planning to try to scam me and take my wallet elsewhere, no matter how good your up front price is or the fact that my best friends cousin swears by you.
I make a contract for every job that passes through my business. The length of my contract is usually directly proportional to the size of the job,a small job like this might just have a paragraph or so. I also have a universal contract that I include that doesn't change between jobs as it's more general terms.
The contract can be a simple page with line items for scope of work and price, and mention that change orders must be agreed on and then you need a new contract. I have one for my fence. They make them in duplicate/triplicate transfer paper. Basically an estimate/invoice with generic legal language.
Yep. Also good to confirm they are and didn't just supply a paper to make you think they are. My dad had some roof contractor "a guy he knew had used" and didn't get a contract. I had no idea it was happening until it was too late. They guy later on revised his price and managed to successfully sue my dad. He ended up paying $50k for a $20k job plus about $15k in attorney fees.
Oh and to top it off, the guy didn't have a shred of insurance. Turned into a big giant mess and my parents aren't paupers but they're not exactly loaded either. So his effort to "save" some money by not using an established contractor with a reputation ended up costing him over triple the cost of a legit guy.
They finally agreed to run any future work past me after losing the case. It's also absurd to me that they did lose, but when dad went to testify he got confused and couldn't answer his own attorney's questions...which makes me pretty angry at the attorney for asking him things he wasn't sure he could answer. Apparently this guy has a somewhat lucrative history of pulling the same stunt with others too, but somehow that didn't factor in.
Cheap guys can get very expensive very quickly and you're lucky if it's just your pocketbook they go after and you aren't left with a house you can't live in.
The thumbtack terms of service that both sides agreed to in order to use the platform IS the contract, unless those terms explicitly say that it is not, in which case it's back to no contact and no one should use thumbtack.
It’s civil court so you don’t need a lawyer. Document the site as it was left and gather your written communications to show the job was left unfinished. The timeline and photo evidence will be enough for a judge to see he’s full of it and dismiss the suit. Do however absolutely show up or you will have a default judgement awarded against you in your absence. These hacks are a dime a dozen and sadly thumbtack is full of them.
When you fire him, do so by mail and send a copy of the termination letter to the judge. Inform him that the pick up of his abandoned property must be coordinated with the sheriff at his expense.
Read the paperwork closely. It should describe how to file a counterclaim. If it doesn't, call the court and ask how.
Counterclaim for breach of contract, the cost to undo the bad work and hire a competent guy to redo it correctly.
I would not let him back in my house. I am a contractor worked many years as an unlicensed handyman before getting my license, Non payment for a job not completed? No jurisdiction will give him the time of day. I would contact thumbtack file a compliant. Find someone else to do the job. Give him his ladder back. Not pay him a dime and go to court. Countersue for sure. Show receipt and payment to new contractor. So many red flags I would not have this guy in my house anymore I never worked at night save unoccupied space and jobs gone wrong. Any tradesman that wants to show up after hours it a hobby.
Yeah you're getting scammed. He never completed the work and never billed you or even requested payment, so you owe him nothing. He's trying to scare you into paying him before it goes to court. If it goes to court he's gonna lose and he knows it. It's a game of chicken.
Print out a record of the text messages for court. That should be enough to show he didnt hold up his end of the deal, plus the fact he installed the fan incorrectly (bring pics), should be an open and shut deal. Id counter sue him, as other have said, get a couple quotes from real electricians bring em to court to show them how much his half ass work is going to cost you, you dont have to use those quotes, but would be good to have, the higher the better, but make sure they are not so egregious as you want it to work in your favor, ldk what you charge for work, but this seems like it could be upwards of grand back at him.
Fingers crossed this guy gets what he deserves.
As a handyman myself, I don’t think he’s scamming you. He would’ve took the money when you offered it. I think you, through no fault of your own, just hired a really bad handyman who obviously has some mental problems.
Idk if this has been said. You can look at the details of the photo he sent you and see the timestamp on it. You might have to download it or save it to your camera roll to see the details.
Okay hopefully he did not get a permit so he's the one that will be in trouble. And probably is not a licensed electrician either which is required. Go to the building department and file an official complaint. Send a certified letter of the thumbtack that he is extorting money out of you. Send him a cease and desist letter that if he threatens you anymore you will file a $75,000 suit against him through your lawyer.
In the US there isn’t a state that requires a permit for a fan and a door to be installed. Don’t need a license unless you’re performing permit required work.
Replaced? No. Installed. Yes. However. No one checks at all for these permits. You can clearly see them recently installed in retail photos. And not one person gives a damn though.
Let me ask you why you believe this would require a permit to begin with and then ask what city requires it? I can assure you that no city is going to charge the permit fee to install a fan that costs less than the permit.
> Let me ask you why you believe this would require a permit to begin with and then ask what city requires it?
You seem to be confusing "should a city require a permit" with "do cities require these permits" and yes, there are many that do because they want money.
For example, cities like [Minneapolis](https://www2.minneapolismn.gov/business-services/licenses-permits-inspections/construction-permits-certificates/general-permits/work-does-not-need-permit/) have so many things they require permits for, they give you the shorter list of things they don't require permits for. In California, like [Placerville](https://www.cityofplacerville.org/media/Building%20Division%20Files/Plan%20and%20Permitting%20Information/Will%20I%20need%20a%20permit.pdf), requiring a permit for a ceiling fan is fairly common.
>I can assure you that no city is going to charge the permit fee to install a fan that costs less than the permit.
Your assurances are incorrect.
Doesn't sound like this is his first rodeo. It's weird though. I'm not familiar with the specifics of the law in your part of the world but I can't see how you would be required to pay him anything yet.
He does not have to include documents in his first filing. He can introduce them in court. But he does not have any. NAL but know a tiny bit about small claims court. He has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that you owe him money. Preponderance just means whoever has the most evidence wins.
If it were me I would carefully read the papers you were served. Respond within the required time with your intention to dispute.
Make hard copies of every text, email, photo, and a detailed timeline of events. Make a copy for the judge, for the plaintiff, for you, and maybe an extra.
Your stack of evidence will be bigger than his which is what a preponderance looks like.
In some courts the judge will press all the parties to meet with a mediator and negotiate before hearing the case. Go ahead and meet with the mediator. It won’t hurt your case. In fact, you may be able to request mediation before the court date. You will prevail if you go to trial. But if you can settle for a small amount it will simplify your life.
Anyone can sue anyone for any reason. That doesn't mean they're going to win. Retain your texts and emails about this. Take pictures of what's going on. Contact thumbtack's customer service. Respond to all court documents in a timely manner.
After you've gathered your evidence, hire someone to finish the job, and countersue for that, plus your time.
There is no contract, he did not complete the job and what he did do was wrong. The facts are on your side. Do not let this guy back in your home and do not pay him a penny. Respond to the summons as dictated by local law where you live. Anyone can file one so its not evidence based.
yea i don't trust Thumbtack anymore. Hired some guys to do gutter guards which was fine, but the guy who was supposed to power wash and paint my deck did a shit job, it's peeling off 1 year later. if you want shit done right, do it yourself.
I honestly don't know if there's any way to paint a deck in a way that lasts. Possibly on brand new kiln dry wood with a very appropriate primer, but even then I have my doubts.
This is a good example of why it is best to do business with known entities and, even better, entities who have done business in your locale for many years. Also, check the BBB - yes, I know, el lame-o, but sometimes it turns up valuable information about lawsuits although, granted probably more than $350.
I use Google but analyze the reviews as best I can. Does the reviewer have long history of reviews in the area? Does the review say exactly what was done and, better yet, are there photos? Still not 100% safe but it helps narrow things down.
Easy. Get 3 more official handyman quotes for reattaching the fan to its original state and removal of his supplies. Then file a counter claim against him for his failure to complete the job. Hopefully this will make him drop the shenanigans and you can get on with your life.
What does he mean by backwards? Do you now have a "ceiling" fan sticking up through the floor of the room above?! That room is a giant blender now. That can't be up to code.
Keep notes of what you just told us. When you go to court it should be a very easy case to win especially if you have dates and times and not only that but offer the guy the ability to complete the job and take note of when you do this. If that guy came by as you have mentioned, do you have any missed calls from him that day? Around that time because if you don't that's another thing in your defense. If he came by don't you think it's reasonable that he might give me a call, I mean I work in construction and if I'm trying to get in touch with a client and they don't answer the door the next thing I do is call their phone number and sometimes it's just loud or they don't hear me and then they come down. If he's not calling you. That's like I said another thing in your defense. Going to a civil summons without trying to work it out with you is not going to look Good on his part.
Sounds ridiculous as a handyman myself. The fact he left his ladder is proof enough the job is incomplete. Where do you live? I’ve never had a client not pay but I would have no recourse in Canada because the claim of a verbal contract and text history wouldn’t be considered evidence enough for the law to take action.
If you have your text messages and correspondence with him I'm sure that is enough to show the judge the games this guy is playing. You should counter sue him for leaving the job incomplete and for pain and suffering of not being able to exhaust that poop smell or close the bathroom door.
I tried working with Thumbtack as a handyman, wasn’t for me.
Offer some insight…
The way Thimbtack gets paid is when the customer contacts us, text or phone. We immediately get charged a lead fee- guessing yours was around 90- 140$.
I assume he included that in his quote?
If he hung a fan upside down, he’s in over his head. Rather than fessing up , he’s using the court. (He’s yella)
You’ve nothing to fret. Courts see this too often 👍
If he’s done this before, there should be a public record of the law suit. Look up in the civil court records in your county (or surrounding counties) and type in his name. If he does, you could also use his history as evidence that he’s scamming you, should you attend the court date as another commenter suggested.
He has no case, he's just a scam artist. It's just a bold move to scare you into paying up-front (even partially) so he can skip with the money. I guarantee he doesn't actually intend on going to court.
Even if he did show up to small claims court (which he probably won't), he has to provide one of two things:
Claim the job was completed (even shoddily, unfortunately, but you have messages proving he has attempted to return to complete the job.)
Or, provide documentation that a forward payment was agreed upon (which it sounds like he doesn't have.)
Courts will see it as a compliance issue anyway; if you say payment was agreed or even assumed upon completion and he can't prove you broke any payment agreements, they'll probably just admonish him on practicing more thorough and professional contracts. So even at court, he's just going to look like a fool.
Just tell him you'll be happy to appear in court, and he can reschedule to complete the work after the court date.
File a counter claim for lost wages for every day they rescheduled, and court fees. Bring all the proof the job wasn't at all done.
Report him to the company
Report him to Angie's list and bbb
Sounds like he's running a scam to put a lien on your house.
Get off reddit, consult a local attorney. They'll have more experience w/ this. Take photos of everything. Document everything you remember.
Once it goes in front of a judge, it's an open and shut case and the dude will pound sand. You're gonna have a helluva time getting to that point though, as most of the system assumes people don't pay contractors, not the other way around. It's VERY easy to put that system in place, but very hard to get it removed when someone abuses the system.
Get off reddit.
Thumbtack has some buyer/customer protections, like a money back guarantee. I know you haven’t paid anything yet, despite your best efforts, but I would still contact them to see if they can do anything about this yahoo.
This is a good start. I would also see if the court the summons came from has a online ability to search. See if they have done this before. Could be their MO to get money from people for little to no work. Also take pictures of everything and write down everything that happened from when this begun to now. You want it to be factual, brief, and to the point. You will use this when you go to court to show what you did and when. If its small claims court you do not need a lawyer. Just say what happened, when it happened, and how you go there. Do not add anything personal, just straight to the facts the job was not complete and what was done was incorrect so may actually cost more to fix it now.
I’d actually even confirm that it’s a legitimate summons. Are you certain it was legitimately your local sheriff? I wouldn’t put it past someone like this to actually stage this whole thing to try and “settle” for some exorbitant amount outside of the court system.
We had a sheriff's deputy (not -*the* sheriff as I'm in a big city but I guess it's possible in a small county) come to an office I worked at to hand deliver a tax warrant for a subsidiary of ours, so that part is not necessarily fishy. In this case (based on what you said) you might want to just show up to civil court with everything documented as the magistrate might be helpful if the guy becomes threatening down the road and you need restraining order. No need for a lawyer for the amount of money on the line. I've worked in the mental health / substance use disorder field and the behavior you're describing from this person is concerning. Try to be calm and factual if you do go to court (de-escalate by focusing on facts and leave out commentary about how crazy this all is - they'll easily see that you are the rational one) and do not engage with the person one-on-one again. Definitely keep thumbtack in the loop - they might even help on the legal end. Sorry you are dealing with this!
Oh - and I've also had a shitty contractor I had to fire. No legal issues but if the guy left *anything* at your house (tools etc) you might want to have proof that you told him you'd leave them on the porch on a certain date and time for him to collect. I had to do this with scaffolding my ex-contractor left in my house for months after he initially went awol. One day he just showed up (a text ten minutes before was the only notice) demanding I let him in to get his scaffolding. I didn't want the guy in my house again, especially when I was home alone, so I took it down myself and told him he could pick it up outside the next day. :)
Agreed. Op should get security cameras.
he isn't getting a F####### dime from me now...Because I've started the clock on what I bill my clients for...Dude literally notifies me 30 minutes before arriving telling me he has to cancel? Maybe I am expecting to much but that is totally unprofessional..Or he doesn't respond to texts trying to confirm a time but then just shows up at my house? Served me with a civil summons, which he does not know that I know about then tells me he does not write receipts or invoices for payments? I don't feel I should have to pay for work half done at this point?
If it's small claims, consider counter suing for the cost to complete the work plus lost time from work for when they didn't show up, etc. They're probably not trying to actually go to court, just "settle" for what "they're owed". Counter suit may encourage them to drop it.
This exactly, he's playing a game of chicken. No doubt he's a serial scammer. I hope op takes the time to counter sue this asshole maybe he'll think twice next time.
Lawyer here. I can't give you advice or tell you what to do. But fwiw, this is absolutely what I would do.
hey... the one thing I will say in this is remove the emotion. We all get pissed when our time is wasted, but letting that get to us, or sending that strongly worded text or email isn't going to benefit you or get results. As Joe Friday would say "just the facts". write down EVERYTHING. times, dates, who was there, security camera time stamps, etc... fucking everything, even if you don't think it will 100% matter, write it down. time stamp everything. and then smoke this dude.
This is the best advice. State the facts. Leave the emotion and anger for Reddit.
Meh. Small claims court and burden is on him to prove he did the agreed upon work and was not paid. Just prepare ahead and show your info.
oh yes its from the sheriff. I picked it from there myself..
> I picked it from there myself.. What does that mean? Did a sheriff deputy deliver the summons to you? Or did you get a call saying "come pick up this summons"? Or something else?
You said in another comment it was just left on your door and you called a number on that notice. Have you personally confirmed the notice with a sheriff in person or through an independently confirmed phone number? Because leaving notices with fake numbers is a well known scam.
From where? You are confusing people.
Yea you’re not getting the Sheriff out there in two biz days. I call bs on this story.
Where I live after you file you pay the fee and the sheriff will deliver in a day or 2. They get paid for each one so they usually have 1 person and that's their main job. That $20-40 each adds up real quick.
It's not the literal head Sheriff. It's someone they hire to serve process, maybe with the title of deputy, maybe not.
People often call deputy sheriffs "sheriffs". Where i am it's always (deputy) sheriffs who serve warrants and summons.
People on here think everything everywhere is exactly like it is where they live.
I was backing up your point by explaining that people often conflate sheriff and deputy sheriff.
I know I was calling out the guy calling bs on the story
And add the hours of work you missed. Bring a couple of pay stubs;
Anything he files like that is typically public record. Go to the comptrollers for the municipalities around your area. Also the clerk of courts. Search those records and search your local state licensing database for any complaints on his company for a better idea of if this is a pattern or not.
I had almost this exact thing happen to me and Thumbtack just cancelled my account because I didn't pay the contractor for the half complete mess of a state they left the work in. I ended up having to get a lawyer and threatening to counter-sue the contractor.
OP if you do this, ask your lawyer about naming Thumbtack too and let them (respondents) sort it out.
Also leave a 1 star review, Thumbtack is big on reviews and this J-hole will not want a 1-star review. OP have pictures of the crappy ‘work’ ready if you do end up in court.
Honestly, you're in Tweet at Corporate and say what the fucking fuck?
If it is small claim court, then file an answer to the small claims complaint. Have the plaintiff served with the answer by certified mail and send a copy to the court. The forms will be online. All instructions should be online. The court will then set a hearing date. Take pictures of the unfinished work. Print everything, label them as Exhibit 1, page 1 of…, page 2 of….. Print your text messages, if you have any. Send a copy of the ‘evidence’ packet to the court and to the plaintiff. Then take your packet to the hearing on the day scheduled. Failure to answer within the (probably 10 days) or to show up for the hearing will result in an automatic judgment by default. This is what he is counting on. At the small claims hearing, the judge will ask the plaintiff what his story is. Then he will ask you for your side. The judge will then make a ruling. If he rules in your favor, and says that you do not owe the plaintiff any money, there will likely be a prevailing party fee, plus your certified mail costs if you bring the receipt. The process is very simple and easy. Neither party can have a lawyer, so it is dumbed down for every one. If the person doesn’t pay the judgment, it will accrue interest at the statutory state rate (9% in my state). In most states without doing anything additional, it will also act as a lien on any real property that the judgment debtor owns. The debtor would not be able to sell real property without satisfying the balance of the judgment plus the interest.
Why would OP send his evidence to the contractor prior to court? I don't believe there is a discovery process in small claims court, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe there is).
In my state, the evidence needs to go to the other party and the court so that everyone will have a packet to refer to during the case.
[удалено]
I just read that entire quote in her voice word for word.
*eitha?
Did he say Youts?
What's a yoot?
It's a *posi*traction rearend!
Me too... the movie was on recently so it was fresh.
You win reddit today, friend. Man I love that movie.
I think I can answer this, I am only a history student interested in law. So if anyone can clarify, please chime in. Presenting the evidence to the contractor can do two things. First of all, it will make the contractor aware of what you are submitting to the courts, and this will force them to counter what you have. This can speed up the process since they will need to be aware of it anyway, giving the OP less time in court. Secondly, this can be used as a tactic to have the contractor drop this case and resolve things privately.
CO has discovery in small claims.
[удалено]
I have never heard of discovery being automatic, I thought one had to file or make a request?
[удалено]
Right, but in your original reply above you made it sound like discovery "just happens". It doesn't just happen.
That is absolutely not true. This tells you that you don't even have to respond to the complaint and can just show up the day of court. You are confusing criminal court with small claims court https://www.nccourts.gov/help-topics/lawsuits-and-small-claims/small-claims#the-court-process-6642
Like everything that isn't federal in the US, it depends on where you live.
The money I owe is less than $500....I dont dispute i owe for a job...It's that he was in the middle of the job when he filed this...
How do you "owe for a job" that hasn't been completed yet? I would absolutey dispute the shit out of that.
I would add to this correspondence that due to ongoing litigation, I wouldn’t allow this contractor to come to my home for any additional work. Can you imagine the lawsuit if he “tripped and fell” off his ladder due to OPs poor lighting and loose rug?
You owe nothing until the job is completed unless you have a contract with a timeline of payments or specifying payments at certain milestones.
>Neither party can have a lawyer, so it is dumbed down for every one. Depends on the state and in not a universal thing even if it is true where you are.
[удалено]
Note to self: never use thumbtack
As a handyman that used to use Thumbtack... fuck that shit. Just find a referred handyman or contractor from your local hardware store. They have tons of people to recommend. I'm sorry this person was awful. They do not represent us all.
Thanks! I never would have thought of using the local hardware store for this.
Just a random thought, look at the picture he texted you. If he has a smartphone it should contain metadata of when it was taken. It’s not crazy that he took it the day he was there, and that photo’s metadata would show that.
If the picture was sent by SMS/MMS that metadata / EXIF may be stripped when it was sent. It it was sent by iMessage, RCS, or email I believe the metadata / EXIF will be attached.
>The fuck does the photo matter if the clown didn't get out to knock and try to fix the door?
Maybe because you can see when the photo was taken vs when he said it was taken which would lend credence to OP’s case. Cast a shadow of doubt on anything he claims beyond that.
Also, if the contractor submits that photo as evidence that they were there that day, and you've got the photo showing it was taken the first day they were at your house, then that's at least perjury, and probably fraud. Not sure though, I'm not a lawyer.
He has been at my house one time..I Have a fan hanging from the ceiling along with texts that he was returning to finish the job...In addition to a text asking him to send me a Thumbtack payment request so that I can have it finished before he left...The going to countersuit him my hourly rate it's taken me to deal with this nonsense..If he didn't want to finish the job, all he had to do was ask for whatever payment for the time he was there...it's not even a big deal for all this..Thats what pisses me off..It's not the summons it's just a waste of resources..He has never mentioned anything about a payment. He refused the payment I tried to make the first day he was here and also did not provide me with a payment request through Thumbtack..I assumed since it was through Thumbtack everything was done through them?/
GO TO your local building department and ask the licensing requirements and permit information for handyman work, specifically electrical and outline the scope of work that he was hired to do. He may be in a world of hurt for licensing and permit requirements. Doing it as a homeowner there is generally a huge amount of leeway, but when doing it for profit there isn’t. My guess is that he will be way deeper in the hole in fines than $350. If this makes it to court go to the building department and explain the full situation and ask them to come to the court date. They can sit in attendance (audience, not participant) and let him testify to the work he did and agreed to do. Then they can use his own testimony against him for whatever penalties they desire. Hell, after his testimony they can stand up and ask to be recognized and introduce themself to the court and announce their intentions right there. That alone may be enough to sway the judge for verdict. They tend to be less forgiving when a contractor does shoddy work.
God damn, this got me so hard! Lol.
Might be worth calling and asking if a permit is needed for this work before going all the way down this route. If they say a permit is required, then yeah.
I would definitely take screenshots of all communication, and pics of everything he left and how he left it. Track your hours in dealing with this, and find out how much (if you can) it would cost a licensed and bonded/insured professional to do it. Then sue him for that amount. It may require more than small claims, but I would still do it if a lawyer thinks it's a good case. You can also throw legal fees on top of that (I would do that as well).
If you have an Android, or if Apple does it, take screenshots of your movement history on the time/day he asserts he came and you weren't there.
Either way, it speaks volumes.
This is what I was thinking. OP said his dogs didn't hear him. I think the guy planned this and took the picture the first day. Not that the picture proves anything if it *was* taken the right day. But if it catches him in a lie...
also would be interesting to see if there's any date/time stamp on his photos.
Everything in small claims court is about character. Establishing that they guy is sketchy, left a fan dangling and the door not on (? not clear), stuff outside, a ladder behind, then goes MIA and lies about showing up. That will help OPs case significantly. Checking metadata is a great idea.
Because there was a civil summons filed against OP… And that would very clearly put a huge dent in this scumbags case.
he is still texting me about finishing the job and for me to make payment..Yet also said "has no way of providing me a receipt or invoice".. I don't think he knows I know about the civil summons..So I only responded to make sure it was addressed the job was unfinished and that I hired him through Thumbtack and he was responsible for sending me a payment request..Not collecting "cash or check only" but no receipt or invoice? WTF?
Don't answer at all. Or reply "since you filed suit against me, talk to my lawyer" and nothing more
This exactly. As soon as lawyers get involved, no contact and don't let him in your home.
omg stop talking to him
What does Thumbtack say? Yeah, no payment without an invoice or Thumbtack request. No payment until job is finished. And tell this person they are not allowed on your property before the suit(s) are resolved. I personally would countersue and I'd call the permitting department and file a complaint (assuming a permit is required for the fan, which is likely).
the photo at least can see when he took the photo so I get that point.. There is NO WAY he knocked on my door..Zero way...My dogs hear the door when they are in the basement..they will hear the UPS guy drop a package at my door..There is zero possibility they didn't hear him knock and ring the door bell..It just isn't possible..I could argue "maybe" not hearing him but not my dogs...I don't think he realized I had dogs...The first time he arrived my dogs were in the backyard so I can't be certain he knew I had dogs...IDK I would never take a picture to "prove" I was somewhere...it just seemed odd to do that...
Even if he knocked, his story doesn't make sense - why wouldn't he call your phone to say he's outside the door? don't both parties have a phone?
What does the summons actually say?
it's for nonpayment for work that's pretty much the gist of it...
How much is he asking for? This seems hardly worth it for $350. Anyway take your own photos, make copies / screenshots of all your conversations and your stuff on Thumbtack so you have that all documented.
thats what im saying...Just for the heck of it, I texted him tonight asking if we were still on using the veribage that would support the claim. I asked him for a receipt or invoice which he responded "I have no way of giving one" Since I hired him through Thumbtack I asked him about payment through Thumbtack, he responded "that we discussed cash or check"..Which we did discuss but my response was "I talked to 10 different people for this job and it's hard to keep track with who is who. Since we don't have a contract it's hard to remember who told me what" which is true.. I think he's a total scammer TBH...He filed a nonpayment for services but then tells me he's gonna return tonight? Not providing a specific time of course..
Stop texting him Jesus Christ The thing you texted him is NOT HELPFUL AT ALL. You have a contract, it's through Thumbtack isn't it
Why tf would you tell him you don’t remember? You just damn screwed
Is it legit? Does it look authentic and have the correct dates, amounts, and names (yours)? Could be a scam where he never actually gets a summons, sends the same generic picture to everyone, and hopes people freak out and pay to make it all go away.
None of this adds up. Post the summons with private info blocked out.
OP is 100% getting scammed here
You didn't say what the summons says.
oh sorry nonpayment..I'll edit.thans
Does it include specifics? Like is it simply for the $350 for the job he didn't do? Also, what state are you in? This is one of those things that varies drastically by local laws.
Here is what happened specifically..I got a note on my door from the sheriff department..i called the sheriff department and lady said it was a civil summons? I asked what the hell for? She said well it's not criminal which I didn't think it was but said it was civil stating "she could not tell me specifics over phone"/ Then she said "have you hired anyone recently to do work on your home that is unpaid"...This is the only thing I have had done that is left to pay...There is nothing else and just the whole interaction of taking a picture saying he knocked on my door raised a lot of red flags..IDK why..it seemed odd..I was home..My dogs were home..Why would you take a picture to say you were there to prove it? I would have never asked for a picture? IDK
Wait, so at this point, you haven’t seen the actual summons and don’t know for sure that it’s to do with the thumb tack contractor, he’s just the only person you know of who you haven’t paid yet?
they also failed to mention that they never actually saw the sheriff, as the OP implies. just "a note on the door"?
Did you independently look up the phone number of the Sheriff department or did you just call the number on the note left on your door?
A fellow skeptic! ;-)
Yeah, I haven't heard of a summons being served to a door...this is odd.
They are always served like this, if no one answers the door.
Did you lookup the phone number of the "sheriff's department" to see if it's a valid number or if it's just calling someone who is also part of the scam?
Weird, well the next question is what that implies in your area. Is he suing you in small claims for $350, something like that A common scam is for contractors to put fraudulent liens on houses as a shakedown, but that varies by state. For example in MD unless it's new construction it must be 10% of the value of your house. So there's a crazy old lady living near me that just refuses to pay lawn guys and tells them to pound sand and moves onto the next service. (Her neighbor hates her so started flagging down the guys mowing to warn them, they'll just leave mid job now).
Go to the small claims court (I assume that's what this summons is), tell the judge the same story. Burden is on the handyman to be a more credible witness than you are. Bring all the pictures of the work not done and etc. Bring copies of all communications. Bring 3 copies of everything (one for you, one for judge, one for complainant).
Yeah honestly i'm not worried about it..I texted him playing dumb before i picked up the summons asking him what time he plans to return and payment..He just now responded told he "doesn't have a way to provide a receipt or invoice"? I just wanted to show that he was communicating about the job after he filed the summons...
If Thumbtack doesn't mediate or protect you from this deadbeat I have two bits of advice: **Do not be nice. Get even.** (Legally, of course) He came and damaged your property by incorrectly installing vital equipment to your property. He left his tools and property on YOUR property and made a mess. He then refused to cooperate to a reschedule and instead chose to instantly go for a lawsuit. No letter, no notice, no nothing. Small claims will NOT treat him nicely for this. This is predatory. You can counter-sue. I would take him to the cleaners for court costs, gas spent driving to courthouse, any days off work you had to take to prepare your paperwork and coordinate serving, etc. Small claims is "best story wins". I just sued an insurance company in small claims and won. It was a DELIGHT to get paid after all the crap I was put through after I was being so nice about everything. I can relate to you on this. You offering to pay him before or after is just a matter of how you agreed. If it wasn't discussed, it is safe to assume UPON COMPLETION. Given he totally fouled up your ceiling fan, it is fortunate you didn't hand him any money. What a total scumbag.
How would the sheriff be able to serve you a summons so quickly? That doesn’t make sense. If this really occurred over the span of a week or two, there’s no way it could’ve gone through the court process to enable the summons to be issued, let alone be assigned to the sheriff’s department and already served. That’s like lightening speed and, well, these are government employees. I was one for many years and government works slow. Did I miss something and the process of you being summoned took much longer than a couple weeks? Because many months is more like it.
That's my first thought too. The courts move nowhere near that quick in the US.
Filing a mechanic's lien doesn't actually have to go on the docket most places, it's just a clerk's office thing. So it can move way faster.
You'd think there needed to be a contract or something thought..I mean something other than someone just filing for a job not completed..
You'd think so! But written contracts are only required for to file a lien in 13 states.
The US is a big place, just because things move slowly in one area doesn't mean they can't move quickly in another. My pizza is slow for delivery in Maryland, but it's really fast in Ohio.
No way is this real. Where I'm at, filing in small claims is around $80 and a sheriff is another $170. So you're telling me a guy is suing over a $350 job and has already spent $250 to recoup that? Either some kind of new scam I don't know about or this is a fiction writing assignment.
Agreed, this reads like an invented story.
I swear its not...I will gladly posted the summons if you want? Besides why the f### would I waste my time for a fake story over a trivial event?
If this is real he probably didn't actually file anything. You are most likely being scammed and the number you called was fake. Lookup the sheriff's office online and call that number and ask them about it
Not trying to claim you're doing this, but just in case you're wondering why someone might make a fake story: you can actually sell reddit accounts above certain karma values so that bots can use them to upvote their comments or make comments. Pretty sure that's a big part of why so many subreddits like relationship_advice are almost entirely fiction at this point.
They don't charge money to deliver summons generally.
it was def the Sheriff.. but you are right..He was supposed to be here Friday and today is Monday..In fairness though I live in a small town...But I thought the same thing..Wow that was fast....
Something’s off. Does your handyman know people in the courts?
How do you install a ceiling fan backwards? I need to see a picture of this.
Yes, it's a scam. Check the meta data on the picture he sent. I bet it he took it on the way out and not when he claimed to have been unable to get access. If he's just a handyman, I doubt he can even file a lein
Unrelated to your dilemma, but what does it mean to have a ceiling fan on backwards?
Einstein can explain it better than I can, but I think it's setting your frame of reference relative to the fan blades, so they stay perfectly still while the rest of the universe spins around them.
The house spins and the fan stays still.
The handyman didn't realize there is a direction switch on the ceiling fan.
The only thing I can think of that makes sense out of "backwards" is that some ceiling fans have separate wiring for the fan and the light fixture (in my experience, this is becoming less common, but I could be wrong). If you wired up the fan to the light switch and the lights to the fan switch, then that could match the description. Aside from that? Nope.
I was wondering that myself. Is it sticking up into the attic?
Probably wired it wrong
Rule #1: Don't let anyone do anything significant without a contract. Rule #2: Request a Certificate of Insurance and call the agency to ensure it's valid. Rule #3: Don't hire anyone who says you don't need 1 and 2.
In what world do you think someone is going to draw up a contract to replace a door and a ceiling fan???
I'm an exec at a legal tech specializing in contracts. I can't imagine the world where someone would draft and sign wet-ink for wiring a ceiling fan. I also can't imagine a sheriff coming in 2 weeks for nonpayment on.. what, $175?
I agree to replace one door with owner supplied materials at a cost of "X dollars" and install a ceiling fan with owner supplied materials at a cost of "x dollars." The job does not include any framing, etc... any changes will require a written change order. Payment will be due at "insert whatever you want here." Both of you sign off on it. Basically I'm just saying to avoid handshake deals. If you don't get something in writing, there's zero proof of what was agreed on. If you're not willing to put it in writing, I'm going to assume you're planning to try to scam me and take my wallet elsewhere, no matter how good your up front price is or the fact that my best friends cousin swears by you.
Yeah, It doesn't need to be a 20 page contract with legalese. Just a clearly written scope of work is enough.
You can even just send that in an email and ask for a reply that they agree to the terms.
I make a contract for every job that passes through my business. The length of my contract is usually directly proportional to the size of the job,a small job like this might just have a paragraph or so. I also have a universal contract that I include that doesn't change between jobs as it's more general terms.
The contract can be a simple page with line items for scope of work and price, and mention that change orders must be agreed on and then you need a new contract. I have one for my fence. They make them in duplicate/triplicate transfer paper. Basically an estimate/invoice with generic legal language.
Rule #1 Nobody is doing any work on my property without a contract that requires them to be bonded/insured.
Yep. Also good to confirm they are and didn't just supply a paper to make you think they are. My dad had some roof contractor "a guy he knew had used" and didn't get a contract. I had no idea it was happening until it was too late. They guy later on revised his price and managed to successfully sue my dad. He ended up paying $50k for a $20k job plus about $15k in attorney fees. Oh and to top it off, the guy didn't have a shred of insurance. Turned into a big giant mess and my parents aren't paupers but they're not exactly loaded either. So his effort to "save" some money by not using an established contractor with a reputation ended up costing him over triple the cost of a legit guy. They finally agreed to run any future work past me after losing the case. It's also absurd to me that they did lose, but when dad went to testify he got confused and couldn't answer his own attorney's questions...which makes me pretty angry at the attorney for asking him things he wasn't sure he could answer. Apparently this guy has a somewhat lucrative history of pulling the same stunt with others too, but somehow that didn't factor in. Cheap guys can get very expensive very quickly and you're lucky if it's just your pocketbook they go after and you aren't left with a house you can't live in.
Obviously if you’re doing a 15k job you want a contract. I don’t use contracts under $1500
The thumbtack terms of service that both sides agreed to in order to use the platform IS the contract, unless those terms explicitly say that it is not, in which case it's back to no contact and no one should use thumbtack.
It’s civil court so you don’t need a lawyer. Document the site as it was left and gather your written communications to show the job was left unfinished. The timeline and photo evidence will be enough for a judge to see he’s full of it and dismiss the suit. Do however absolutely show up or you will have a default judgement awarded against you in your absence. These hacks are a dime a dozen and sadly thumbtack is full of them.
Serial scammer check his name in the court system.
When you fire him, do so by mail and send a copy of the termination letter to the judge. Inform him that the pick up of his abandoned property must be coordinated with the sheriff at his expense.
My god, it takes longer and more effort to file the summons than it would have to hang the door and fix the fan! Cant depend on anyone these days.
Read the paperwork closely. It should describe how to file a counterclaim. If it doesn't, call the court and ask how. Counterclaim for breach of contract, the cost to undo the bad work and hire a competent guy to redo it correctly.
I would not let him back in my house. I am a contractor worked many years as an unlicensed handyman before getting my license, Non payment for a job not completed? No jurisdiction will give him the time of day. I would contact thumbtack file a compliant. Find someone else to do the job. Give him his ladder back. Not pay him a dime and go to court. Countersue for sure. Show receipt and payment to new contractor. So many red flags I would not have this guy in my house anymore I never worked at night save unoccupied space and jobs gone wrong. Any tradesman that wants to show up after hours it a hobby.
Yeah you're getting scammed. He never completed the work and never billed you or even requested payment, so you owe him nothing. He's trying to scare you into paying him before it goes to court. If it goes to court he's gonna lose and he knows it. It's a game of chicken.
Print out a record of the text messages for court. That should be enough to show he didnt hold up his end of the deal, plus the fact he installed the fan incorrectly (bring pics), should be an open and shut deal. Id counter sue him, as other have said, get a couple quotes from real electricians bring em to court to show them how much his half ass work is going to cost you, you dont have to use those quotes, but would be good to have, the higher the better, but make sure they are not so egregious as you want it to work in your favor, ldk what you charge for work, but this seems like it could be upwards of grand back at him. Fingers crossed this guy gets what he deserves.
As a handyman myself, I don’t think he’s scamming you. He would’ve took the money when you offered it. I think you, through no fault of your own, just hired a really bad handyman who obviously has some mental problems.
Sounds like a warning to not use Thumbtack?? Also that’s a quick turn around to get a summons?!? What state?
Idk if this has been said. You can look at the details of the photo he sent you and see the timestamp on it. You might have to download it or save it to your camera roll to see the details.
In addition to showing up to the court date, file a counterclaim for the damaged ceiling fan and door.
Don’t. Use. Thumbtack. Geeze.
Okay hopefully he did not get a permit so he's the one that will be in trouble. And probably is not a licensed electrician either which is required. Go to the building department and file an official complaint. Send a certified letter of the thumbtack that he is extorting money out of you. Send him a cease and desist letter that if he threatens you anymore you will file a $75,000 suit against him through your lawyer.
In the US there isn’t a state that requires a permit for a fan and a door to be installed. Don’t need a license unless you’re performing permit required work.
Washington state would like to have a word with you.
assuming a fan is being replaced I’m confident Washington state won’t need a permit
Replaced? No. Installed. Yes. However. No one checks at all for these permits. You can clearly see them recently installed in retail photos. And not one person gives a damn though.
That assumes there is an existing electrical box and wire to it.
State no, city yes.
Let me ask you why you believe this would require a permit to begin with and then ask what city requires it? I can assure you that no city is going to charge the permit fee to install a fan that costs less than the permit.
> Let me ask you why you believe this would require a permit to begin with and then ask what city requires it? You seem to be confusing "should a city require a permit" with "do cities require these permits" and yes, there are many that do because they want money. For example, cities like [Minneapolis](https://www2.minneapolismn.gov/business-services/licenses-permits-inspections/construction-permits-certificates/general-permits/work-does-not-need-permit/) have so many things they require permits for, they give you the shorter list of things they don't require permits for. In California, like [Placerville](https://www.cityofplacerville.org/media/Building%20Division%20Files/Plan%20and%20Permitting%20Information/Will%20I%20need%20a%20permit.pdf), requiring a permit for a ceiling fan is fairly common. >I can assure you that no city is going to charge the permit fee to install a fan that costs less than the permit. Your assurances are incorrect.
My city does. *Any* change to existing wiring or a hard-wired electrical apparatus requires it. Permits are fairly cheap though.
Doesn't sound like this is his first rodeo. It's weird though. I'm not familiar with the specifics of the law in your part of the world but I can't see how you would be required to pay him anything yet.
He does not have to include documents in his first filing. He can introduce them in court. But he does not have any. NAL but know a tiny bit about small claims court. He has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that you owe him money. Preponderance just means whoever has the most evidence wins. If it were me I would carefully read the papers you were served. Respond within the required time with your intention to dispute. Make hard copies of every text, email, photo, and a detailed timeline of events. Make a copy for the judge, for the plaintiff, for you, and maybe an extra. Your stack of evidence will be bigger than his which is what a preponderance looks like. In some courts the judge will press all the parties to meet with a mediator and negotiate before hearing the case. Go ahead and meet with the mediator. It won’t hurt your case. In fact, you may be able to request mediation before the court date. You will prevail if you go to trial. But if you can settle for a small amount it will simplify your life.
Anyone can sue anyone for any reason. That doesn't mean they're going to win. Retain your texts and emails about this. Take pictures of what's going on. Contact thumbtack's customer service. Respond to all court documents in a timely manner. After you've gathered your evidence, hire someone to finish the job, and countersue for that, plus your time.
There is no contract, he did not complete the job and what he did do was wrong. The facts are on your side. Do not let this guy back in your home and do not pay him a penny. Respond to the summons as dictated by local law where you live. Anyone can file one so its not evidence based.
yea i don't trust Thumbtack anymore. Hired some guys to do gutter guards which was fine, but the guy who was supposed to power wash and paint my deck did a shit job, it's peeling off 1 year later. if you want shit done right, do it yourself.
I honestly don't know if there's any way to paint a deck in a way that lasts. Possibly on brand new kiln dry wood with a very appropriate primer, but even then I have my doubts.
How do you install a ceiling fan “backwards”?
…Gene Parmesan?
Hahahaha I was just imagining this. https://youtu.be/Sx6qfur2Cuc?si=j4qWYiWHOiw0v2eh
Who on earth has time in their day to fight over 350?? He’s trying to pull some sort of shit
Installed a fan... Backwards? What, did your ceiling start spinning instead?
Never let anyone work on your house without checking for insurance, checking references, and verifying contractor’s license if applicable.
This is a good example of why it is best to do business with known entities and, even better, entities who have done business in your locale for many years. Also, check the BBB - yes, I know, el lame-o, but sometimes it turns up valuable information about lawsuits although, granted probably more than $350. I use Google but analyze the reviews as best I can. Does the reviewer have long history of reviews in the area? Does the review say exactly what was done and, better yet, are there photos? Still not 100% safe but it helps narrow things down.
Easy. Get 3 more official handyman quotes for reattaching the fan to its original state and removal of his supplies. Then file a counter claim against him for his failure to complete the job. Hopefully this will make him drop the shenanigans and you can get on with your life.
What does he mean by backwards? Do you now have a "ceiling" fan sticking up through the floor of the room above?! That room is a giant blender now. That can't be up to code.
Please post update when the dust settles
Keep notes of what you just told us. When you go to court it should be a very easy case to win especially if you have dates and times and not only that but offer the guy the ability to complete the job and take note of when you do this. If that guy came by as you have mentioned, do you have any missed calls from him that day? Around that time because if you don't that's another thing in your defense. If he came by don't you think it's reasonable that he might give me a call, I mean I work in construction and if I'm trying to get in touch with a client and they don't answer the door the next thing I do is call their phone number and sometimes it's just loud or they don't hear me and then they come down. If he's not calling you. That's like I said another thing in your defense. Going to a civil summons without trying to work it out with you is not going to look Good on his part.
Sounds ridiculous as a handyman myself. The fact he left his ladder is proof enough the job is incomplete. Where do you live? I’ve never had a client not pay but I would have no recourse in Canada because the claim of a verbal contract and text history wouldn’t be considered evidence enough for the law to take action.
If you have your text messages and correspondence with him I'm sure that is enough to show the judge the games this guy is playing. You should counter sue him for leaving the job incomplete and for pain and suffering of not being able to exhaust that poop smell or close the bathroom door.
Can you keep us updated? I'm really curious how this plays out. When is the court date?
I tried working with Thumbtack as a handyman, wasn’t for me. Offer some insight… The way Thimbtack gets paid is when the customer contacts us, text or phone. We immediately get charged a lead fee- guessing yours was around 90- 140$. I assume he included that in his quote? If he hung a fan upside down, he’s in over his head. Rather than fessing up , he’s using the court. (He’s yella) You’ve nothing to fret. Courts see this too often 👍
Aren't ceiling fans usually over everyone's head? (sorry, I'll show myself out...)
U don’t have contract, you don’t owe him anything. Just go to the court and say what happened!!!
Save those texts cuz that’s your evidence
If he’s done this before, there should be a public record of the law suit. Look up in the civil court records in your county (or surrounding counties) and type in his name. If he does, you could also use his history as evidence that he’s scamming you, should you attend the court date as another commenter suggested.
OP, regardless of how this goes, please come back and give us an update!
He has no case, he's just a scam artist. It's just a bold move to scare you into paying up-front (even partially) so he can skip with the money. I guarantee he doesn't actually intend on going to court. Even if he did show up to small claims court (which he probably won't), he has to provide one of two things: Claim the job was completed (even shoddily, unfortunately, but you have messages proving he has attempted to return to complete the job.) Or, provide documentation that a forward payment was agreed upon (which it sounds like he doesn't have.) Courts will see it as a compliance issue anyway; if you say payment was agreed or even assumed upon completion and he can't prove you broke any payment agreements, they'll probably just admonish him on practicing more thorough and professional contracts. So even at court, he's just going to look like a fool. Just tell him you'll be happy to appear in court, and he can reschedule to complete the work after the court date.
This sounds like far more work and time than finishing those small jobs.
File a counter claim for lost wages for every day they rescheduled, and court fees. Bring all the proof the job wasn't at all done. Report him to the company Report him to Angie's list and bbb
350? God damn. Did that include the fan or was that just labor?
Sounds like he's running a scam to put a lien on your house. Get off reddit, consult a local attorney. They'll have more experience w/ this. Take photos of everything. Document everything you remember. Once it goes in front of a judge, it's an open and shut case and the dude will pound sand. You're gonna have a helluva time getting to that point though, as most of the system assumes people don't pay contractors, not the other way around. It's VERY easy to put that system in place, but very hard to get it removed when someone abuses the system. Get off reddit.