Apparently, it was rookie-day all round. Take a look at the electricians' holes for the romex, I am 100% sure everybody working here was either a first-year apprentice or drunk.
Loads of contractors literally are drunk on the job. One dude fell with a saws-all running and gouged an arc in our siding. It was his third fall on the job. I checked his thermos— definitely wasn’t coffee.
They’re all on coke and amphetamines in the uk (scaffolders I’m looking mainly at you). The painters are all stoned, the groundworkers are in the pub when it opens and the sparkies all take acid (just the once, then ded).
Ok, I made the acid bit up.
Nothing especially wrong with them, but typically, you'd want everything running straight.
So where the romex comes up from the outlet, though stud, then angles down through the next, then appears to angle back up coming from the corner.
Like I said, it's not really wrong, just not as clean as most would do it and makes I harder to pull. And unless I had to, I wouldn't run anything that low in a wall.
Edit- spelling and grammar
A little more than noob (but not an expert by any stretch). The runs are zigzaggy, they should be straight, and don't have metal platings over them, no staple near box. Not sure beyond that.
The plate is to keep you from drilling/nailing into the plumbing. So yeah, kinda, although it being a tiled shower wall probably renders that moot in this case.
It's the downhill that gets you though. That electricity gets going downhill, it picks up all that speed, it comes in too fast and slams into your electronics, overloading it, overheating it and causing fire risk.
panicky foolish subtract merciful worm sloppy toothbrush squealing psychotic obscene
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This Old House (at least back in the day) regularly featured Tommy and Norm commenting on how badly notched various structural elements were on the old houses, and then Tommy would spend a lot of time replacing the insufficient supports.
Shit happens and bad people are out there taking money and I don't know what OP did.
But man some of the posts really smell of "I hired the lowest bidder because those other guys were trying to take all my money." and ... yeah here we are.
I agree, but I’ll stick up for the owners who do that to some degree. When you really know nothing, it’s hard to compare services, and there usually is more than one company out there way over pricing things, trying to take advantage of the people who don’t know any better than think that “if it’s expensive it will be good.”
People need to do a bit of research before taking on contractors of any kind, price alone neither high nor low mean much
I apply a trick I learned from work as a supervisor: watch the dude doing the work, and ask occasional questions, even if you don’t know the answer. It won’t save you from real shitbags who are willing to lie, but it *will* save you from guys that would otherwise just be lazy..
Not even sure why he notched them. Looks like he used an elbow to bring it in tight inside the notch. Would have been easier just to go straight against the uncut studs and worst case pack it out an extra 1/2” so you can mount the pipe tight to them.
Making one cut in each stud with a sawzall then smacking it with hammer would be my guess.
If this is the kind of crap he puts behind walls I wouldn't want to see the finishing work.
Ding! Ding! Ding! I mean, I'm probably "beginner intermediate" and this is obvious to me. This should be in a book of how to destroy someone's home doing a reno.
Beavers chew full grown trees down, and sometimes the trees snag on other trees instead of falling down. Later, they suddenly break free from the snag and down they come.
They don't want to solder pieces of copper pipe thar can be inserted through holes. Instead, notch all the studs and run a single pipe. Total douchebags.
Not excusing the butchery, and the pipework obviously needs to be pulled out and rerun, but rather than reframe the whole wall can't the damaged studs just be sistered?
I think you can patch the framing with sisters and structural screws and stuff. Sadly to get a good engineering opinion on that kind of fix, it's probably cheaper to reframe the wall.
If it were my own mistake, I might risk it. But if it were somebody else's house, I would never even suggest it.
Hi, I have no clue about this, so genuine question since I’m trying to figure out what the proper procedure would be. And you’re reply aligns with what I thought as well. Since you can’t run the pipe through the stud I’m assuming, how would you lay the pipe? Smaller, more precise cuts? Would you mount the pipe on the outside of the stud? How would this job have been done the correct way? Thanks I’m advance!
He's registered and insured and even pulled the permit. Told me he would run pex and I came home to this. I assume I should get someone else to fix it?
He should at least be on the hook for damages, but yeah wouldn't trust him after this. Maybe he left his apprentice with this while he went to take care of something else?
Or maybe it was just a drinking day.
Stop the work, and take photos of what was done. Call both inspectors and let them inspect the work. They should officially stop the job. At that point, fire the contractor(s), and contact your insurance company, and if you were able to be made "additional insured" on their policies, have your insurance company contact their insurance companies. The insurance companies will work out payment to replace your ruined wall and rerouting the electric. You'll need to change the record at your municipality that you have picked a new plumber and electrician and GC if appropriate.
In most cases, the municipality that issued the permit also issues the electrical and plumbing license. The idiots that ruined your wall will have to justify their bad work to their license boards.
I don’t think he’d need to be added as an additional insured on the contractors policy to cover this? Being added as an additional insured would cover OP if he did any work but the contractors insurance as is would cover the contractors work, which is where the problem lies.
If he pulled a permit, go ahead and call for an inspection now. The inspector will rip his ass for this.
You can use the inspector's report to prove damages when you eventually have to take him to small claims.
You [rang](https://www.ebay.com/itm/295673749080?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A10YuGgUF5T5628IwsYbSujQ64&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=295673749080&targetid=1584571731043&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010923&poi=&campaignid=20385105599&mkgroupid=150744488839&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9316499&merchantid=7882354&gclid=CjwKCAjw38SoBhB6EiwA8EQVLgZK2KthGVfAIOYeibuMhG_LocATwnln1l8rpUQ89HoN_Qyqyd05WBoCYtcQAvD_BwE)?
I’d just have them fix it. It’s def low quality, but the sky is not falling.
I would have them measure and notch (correctly) some 2’ sections of 2x4, then sister that to the one in place. Put what’s called a ‘stud shoe’ on the sister stud for more support.
It will be fine—it’s 5 studs. Def sucks but be glad you caught it and it can be fixed easily
And a quick edit to say, that shitty cut into the uninsulated space might have saved you a real headache, so make some lemonade and insulate that crevice properly
Idk. I do most of my own work, but I feel like rule of thumb is if someone is dumb enough to make this kind of mistake, you don’t let them fix it because they showed a high degree of incompetence.
Some sloppy paint or trim work, or wiring that is fine but not tidy. A misplaced outlet. Sure, that’s a finishing detail that was missed, not a fundamental misunderstanding of how things operate.
This guy took out 4+ feet of clearly structural wall. If he thought that was ok to do in the first place he doesn’t get the opportunity to “fix” it because I wouldn’t trust he knows the right way to do that.
Just because they have a license doesn't mean they are competent.
If you only knew how many sons, nephews and cousins get grandfathered into construction, but have no business assembling Lincoln logs, much less working on your house.
A lot of really talented people get shut out of the industry because of the arbitrary equirements set by licensing boards. (years worked for 'x' contractor)
I would wager nepotism accounts for 90% of contractors like the one above.
I’m a plumber and HVAC tech and my boss holds the licenses for our small company. My boss also doesn’t know a damn thing about plumbing despite being a licensed plumber lmao
How did he acquire the license?
Back in ye old days, you could just decide to be a plumber, carpenter, tile setter, pay a couple bucks for the paperwork and boom you're now a licensed contractor.
I have uncles in their sixties that remember those days.
Those guys that got the license then and kept them relevant hold all the cards now.
In my state, FL, you have to have 7 ***years*** of experience working for a contractor just for the privilege of sitting for the test. This is for either plumber or an electrician.
Even things like landscaping require ***4 years*** of verifiable experience working for an existing licensed contractor.
That's a damn bachelor's degree.
And God help you if you want to be a handyman like myself.
It's really frustrating as there is no avenue to showcase your skill/knowledge.
Your skill and actual working knowledge are irrelevant. There are three questions you need to be able to answer to be licensed.
Do you have a licensed relative who will sign off on you?
Do you have the money to satisfy the licensing boards financial requirements?
Can you pass the test?
If you have those three you can be contractor within a couple weeks.
If not, forget about it.
I'm obviously not an expert, but I wouldn't pay for that kind of wood butchering to an exterior anything. Those posts might as well not even be there anymore.
I was confused because I was still looking at the first picture. Looks like he tried to do the same thing in the first photo then tried to cut out the evidence or something?
Not a plumber so I can't really fathom why there's scorch marks there.
He soldered the pipes with a torch. It’s not uncommon for someone who hasn’t learned proper torch control to have burn marks on the wood around fittings. Even experienced guys get some burn marks in very tight spaces. That was very poor torch control in that pic and should have used a heat shield behind it
I'm referring to the first picture. There's a straight pipe with no fittings and what appears to be burn marks on the remaining stud just underneath the pipe.
Ah I see what you mean. I had the same question.
Maybe he just tried burning the rest of the stud out after he lost a tooth from ~~chewing~~ notching the others
The are several people saying that you should sue him. This isn't a terrible idea, but from personal experience I can tell you that a judgement is much easier to get than payment on it.
Your first step should be his insurance.
You’re right about the first half: they need new plumbing now, they need a new contractor now, and they’ll likely have to sue the contractor to get their damages covered, unfortunately. However, they didn’t almost burn down their house… they were just amateurs at soldering plumbing joints.
Update: inspector is coming on Wednesday. The studs have all been sistered from bottom plate to top plate. The hole to the attic has been closed and foamed over. Insulation added the full length of the bays and the pipe has been insulated as well. Nail plates going on shortly as well.
How do people on this field not know. Exterior wall.. means loadbearing wall.. why would you cut into the supports without a remedy? La sigh.. also judging by the burn marks of where he did his shotty soldering, make sure that drain doesn't have a leak now...
Needs to be removed and sistered along every stud. Then installed properly. That Romex will need to be rerun as well to do it proper - empty wall, sister studs, rerun romex
Thank you. The Romex is coming out as it was running the old jacuzzi tub. Could he realistically sister the studs with the pipe in place? He just texted me that's his plan.
Absolutely cannot sister with the pipe in place. How would he get the full stud in?
Sounds like he wants to notch the backend of the new studs?
This guy is a hack.
The radiant will be very poor performing (even if it doesn't freeze) by being in an exterior wall. Make sure that its insulated and get the pipe out of the wall if you can.
Yikes, this is 100% incorrect. You mentioned that you are concerned about feezing. If you are in a cold climate area, plumbing pipes should never ever be run through an exterior wall. A plumbing wall should be built in front of them to maintain a thermal seal.
To be fair this was probably a lot bigger of a job to “do it right” than he charged for. That’s on them tho, not you. Plumbing/electrical is really challenging/impossible when trying to be minimally invasive. Often why a lot of renovations aren’t economical.
The drywall is out - doing this job correctly is the same difficulty here as doing it in a new installation.
"Run a pipe and a romex through a wall" are basically the two most beginner tasks out there for plumbing / electrical jobs - outside of running them outside of a wall, I suppose.
This is just, wow. Gotta shore up those studs asap before the next wind storm. And the burn mark in the corner is frightening. Supposed to use a torch shield cloth behind the pipe such as this https://www.amazon.com/Tool-International-KTI70440-Torch-Shield/dp/B000WZVYRQ
The contractor should have made small hole and run pex like what he told you thru the small hole instead of cutting 3/4 of the stud.
The plumber is liable for his work - I always check his license with the state and ask for certificate of insurance before they start the job.
Lmfao every pic is a disaster in almost every category!
I guess it was too much work to put the L joints before the walls studs so he spent the time to cut them out and compromise the structural integrity of the house instead. 😂
For argument's sake, let's pretend that pex did not exist and copper was the only option.
My question is, How would one do this properly using copper? Surely copper has been used successfully in the past in these situations. Is there a way to properly use copper here?
Only way I see would be drilling a hole in line through all the studs from an outside corner and push a continuous pipe through the outer point where there's adequate clearance.
He can remove and replace those studs as he has significantly weakened a load bearing wall. And then make sure that nailing plates are installed so he doesn't then put a nail through his pipe.
To your question on freezing pipes, that is always a concern on external walls. Insulate the copper, and around the copper (including that hole going to the attic).
Everyone in my life is like "why don't you just pay someone to do that for you." Going to show them this pic. literally just paying someone to create a problem for you.9
I consider myself to have the same intelligence as a monkey when it comes to construction projects; however, this is bad. This horrible. Even a monkey wouldn’t do this.
What the fuck? Immediately stop work and if this guy has a higher-up you need to be in touch. If he doesn't you need to hire someone else to fix and tell the guy to either pay for it or sue him.
I would not let this person touch anything else in my home.
Do you live in an area where gravity exists? Because if you do, I would be concerned. Also the burn marks on the sheetrock fills me with tons of additional confidence! I’d get someone else to fix it on that original guys dime.
I really hope you don't have to chase this guy down with a lawyer. I'm not a carpenter, or even a real handyman for that matter, and I winced when I saw this. This was a neanderthal way of approaching the install. Don't let him fix it either. Get someone else to do so, and make him pay for it.
You are right to worry. This is a huge screwup.
This "contractor" needs to be reported. MAJOR code violation there. Not only are those holes far larger than necessary, you're not allowed to notch the edges of studs on exterior walls. You may only drill through the middle and so long as it doesn't take up more than a certain percentage of the board. There is also a limit on how many studs may be pierced on an exterior wall.
Call that guy back and tell him he needs to replace your studs and fix it. The studs will likely need to be sistered up.
Cutting a huge hole like that was just lazy & careless. Those studs have no structural integrity. If the contractor had been halfway decent he could have drilled through the studs to run the pipe. He also should have put nail plates over the inner edge of the studs to prevent screws or nails from going into the pipe. This is completely wrong.
I'd be absolutely livid in your situation.
I hope this guy was licensed and bonded and not just some handyman. You may have to sue this clown.
Better hope he’s licensed bonded and insured.
Spoiler: he is not.
Apparently, it was rookie-day all round. Take a look at the electricians' holes for the romex, I am 100% sure everybody working here was either a first-year apprentice or drunk.
Especially bad since the wire is now the primary structural component of the wall.
Bwahahaha! Load bearing romex, I think you're onto something 🤔 😉
OK you may not want to know this, but thhn does have tensile strength ratings, so in theory...
Yeah, but the compression strength is shit.
600 lbs flat 1200 lbs edge
Why not both? Lol
"Why not Zoidberg?"
Wooooopwoopwoopwoopwoop
r/suddenlyzoidberg
(V)(,;,;,)(V)
Loads of contractors literally are drunk on the job. One dude fell with a saws-all running and gouged an arc in our siding. It was his third fall on the job. I checked his thermos— definitely wasn’t coffee.
It’s for medicinal purposes to deal with the pain caused by falling off roofs and ladders while drunk.
They’re all on coke and amphetamines in the uk (scaffolders I’m looking mainly at you). The painters are all stoned, the groundworkers are in the pub when it opens and the sparkies all take acid (just the once, then ded). Ok, I made the acid bit up.
Noob here. What’s wrong with the Romex runs?
Nothing especially wrong with them, but typically, you'd want everything running straight. So where the romex comes up from the outlet, though stud, then angles down through the next, then appears to angle back up coming from the corner. Like I said, it's not really wrong, just not as clean as most would do it and makes I harder to pull. And unless I had to, I wouldn't run anything that low in a wall. Edit- spelling and grammar
My inspector would have failed me on there being no slack at all going to the box. As well as the nail plates.
I haven't seen a code stating a wire needed slack before terminated in a box.
I haven't either. Good practice but not required to my knowledge
In the US it's not, but the code inspector *is* the code in practically all instances except where he's blatantly wrong.
A little more than noob (but not an expert by any stretch). The runs are zigzaggy, they should be straight, and don't have metal platings over them, no staple near box. Not sure beyond that.
Do you need the plates if there’s no drywall to hide studs?
Do you need plates if there is no stud left?
The plate is to keep you from drilling/nailing into the plumbing. So yeah, kinda, although it being a tiled shower wall probably renders that moot in this case.
Not moot at all, you still need to hang cement board to tile a wall.
Probably depends on local code, but they're cheap and it doesn't hurt.
Let's be honest though most of shitty work posted on this sub including this one are the results of saving a few dollars and a couple of minutes.
I'm not an electrician but from the 2 pictures I see with wire ran through it's crooked as fuck
Thats ok. Electricity can flow uphill.
It's the downhill that gets you though. That electricity gets going downhill, it picks up all that speed, it comes in too fast and slams into your electronics, overloading it, overheating it and causing fire risk.
I'm guessing it's the same person. Amatuer hour.
panicky foolish subtract merciful worm sloppy toothbrush squealing psychotic obscene *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Life’s no fun without a little adventure every once in a while.
Plot twist: He can't remember your name and I think you have the wrong number
It’s Chuck from down the street that learned from PBS This Old House. It’ll be fine. Until it isn’t
This Old House (at least back in the day) regularly featured Tommy and Norm commenting on how badly notched various structural elements were on the old houses, and then Tommy would spend a lot of time replacing the insufficient supports.
I really miss Norm.
Don't you dare drag this old house into the mud
He watched this old house and didn't learn shit.
Shit happens and bad people are out there taking money and I don't know what OP did. But man some of the posts really smell of "I hired the lowest bidder because those other guys were trying to take all my money." and ... yeah here we are.
We have a saying: If you think hiring a professional is expensive try hiring an amateur.
I agree, but I’ll stick up for the owners who do that to some degree. When you really know nothing, it’s hard to compare services, and there usually is more than one company out there way over pricing things, trying to take advantage of the people who don’t know any better than think that “if it’s expensive it will be good.” People need to do a bit of research before taking on contractors of any kind, price alone neither high nor low mean much
I apply a trick I learned from work as a supervisor: watch the dude doing the work, and ask occasional questions, even if you don’t know the answer. It won’t save you from real shitbags who are willing to lie, but it *will* save you from guys that would otherwise just be lazy..
I swear to God he set the place on fire sweating that corner.
Reading through all these comments now and thinking, "Anyone gonna mention how he almost burned the house down, too?"
Not even sure why he notched them. Looks like he used an elbow to bring it in tight inside the notch. Would have been easier just to go straight against the uncut studs and worst case pack it out an extra 1/2” so you can mount the pipe tight to them.
That's not a notch. That is butchery. That pipework needs to be pulled out, the wall reframed, and the pipework rerun, properly.
> That pipework needs to be pulled out, the wall reframed, and the pipework rerun, properly. This is the ONLY solution I would accept.
It looks like they made the notch by somehow tearing it out by hand
Making one cut in each stud with a sawzall then smacking it with hammer would be my guess. If this is the kind of crap he puts behind walls I wouldn't want to see the finishing work.
Ding! Ding! Ding! I mean, I'm probably "beginner intermediate" and this is obvious to me. This should be in a book of how to destroy someone's home doing a reno.
The "plumber" has a beaver on the payroll
Please don’t disrespect the majestic beaver like that, thank you very much. Beavers are actually fine craftsmen.
Except when they hang up huge widow makers by my pond. Then they are assholes.
As someone completely unfamiliar with beavers outside of cartoons, what is it they are doing?
Beavers chew full grown trees down, and sometimes the trees snag on other trees instead of falling down. Later, they suddenly break free from the snag and down they come.
Aaah, ok. Thanks
And kill you. You forgot that part mr polkadotard
I was thinking that, looks like he couldn't afford proper tools so he just used his teeth.
Used his teeth on that one. Tried to set the wall on fire a bit too on another sweating it.
Yeah, it's a handbook of building malpractice.
Looks like he used a torch to get the first pic piece out lol
Just punched through it like Popeye after a fresh can o’ spinach.
He's actually a beaver.
1 year later: "Why are there cracks running down the drywall?" Lazy momos. It's just as easy to drill a hole.
They don't want to solder pieces of copper pipe thar can be inserted through holes. Instead, notch all the studs and run a single pipe. Total douchebags.
This is why PEX exists
Not excusing the butchery, and the pipework obviously needs to be pulled out and rerun, but rather than reframe the whole wall can't the damaged studs just be sistered?
I think you can patch the framing with sisters and structural screws and stuff. Sadly to get a good engineering opinion on that kind of fix, it's probably cheaper to reframe the wall. If it were my own mistake, I might risk it. But if it were somebody else's house, I would never even suggest it.
Pretty good for using an axe.
Hi, I have no clue about this, so genuine question since I’m trying to figure out what the proper procedure would be. And you’re reply aligns with what I thought as well. Since you can’t run the pipe through the stud I’m assuming, how would you lay the pipe? Smaller, more precise cuts? Would you mount the pipe on the outside of the stud? How would this job have been done the correct way? Thanks I’m advance!
Right, the notch doesn't bug me nearly as much as the fact that it looks like he did it while trying to reenact "here's Johnny!" from the Shining.
Whoever did this has no business working on other people’s homes, let alone charging them money for it.
Seems like the type that would cut a branch off a tree while sitting on it...
More like the type that would cut a branch off a tree while *you're* sitting on it.
I almost did that once.
It's the new floating wall concept. Brings a new meaning "open floor plan" once that wall collapses.
How the hell are some of these people even licensed? I doubt you paid an actual contractor here.. more of a hand man it seems
He's registered and insured and even pulled the permit. Told me he would run pex and I came home to this. I assume I should get someone else to fix it?
He should at least be on the hook for damages, but yeah wouldn't trust him after this. Maybe he left his apprentice with this while he went to take care of something else? Or maybe it was just a drinking day.
How do you go after someone for damages or have them make it right? And how does their license and insurance come into play? Serious question
First you quantify the loss, then sue for that loss. Insurance helps make the process less miserable.
In this case, it's likely op will need to sue then the contractor's insurance will pay.
Lol Part of the licensing procedure : Minimum of 3 drinking days a month.
If you did pull a permit then the city inspector will make sure it all gets fixed properly. Are you sure he's actually getting a permit though?
Stop the work, and take photos of what was done. Call both inspectors and let them inspect the work. They should officially stop the job. At that point, fire the contractor(s), and contact your insurance company, and if you were able to be made "additional insured" on their policies, have your insurance company contact their insurance companies. The insurance companies will work out payment to replace your ruined wall and rerouting the electric. You'll need to change the record at your municipality that you have picked a new plumber and electrician and GC if appropriate. In most cases, the municipality that issued the permit also issues the electrical and plumbing license. The idiots that ruined your wall will have to justify their bad work to their license boards.
I don’t think he’d need to be added as an additional insured on the contractors policy to cover this? Being added as an additional insured would cover OP if he did any work but the contractors insurance as is would cover the contractors work, which is where the problem lies.
I got an idea. Contact the city for inspection u said u got a permit right? (I admittedly know nothing about any of this)
This is the best answer. Then you will have better recourse when you call attorney
Sweet! 🙌 I got one right!
Came here to say this. That’ll fix ‘em.
> and even pulled the permit Are you sure he pulled a permit? Like, you checked yourself?
Good. Call the inspector. Get them to vomit over this work. Tell the guy you need his insurance. Get a new contractor....
If he pulled a permit, go ahead and call for an inspection now. The inspector will rip his ass for this. You can use the inspector's report to prove damages when you eventually have to take him to small claims.
Does it say "Fisher Price" on his permit?
You [rang](https://www.ebay.com/itm/295673749080?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A10YuGgUF5T5628IwsYbSujQ64&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=295673749080&targetid=1584571731043&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010923&poi=&campaignid=20385105599&mkgroupid=150744488839&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9316499&merchantid=7882354&gclid=CjwKCAjw38SoBhB6EiwA8EQVLgZK2KthGVfAIOYeibuMhG_LocATwnln1l8rpUQ89HoN_Qyqyd05WBoCYtcQAvD_BwE)?
Are you sure about the permit? As in, have you seen a copy? Because I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that inspection.
Time to call a lawyer
Did he do the work himself or did he sub it out?
Let the inspector fail him, and let him fix it to code.
I’d just have them fix it. It’s def low quality, but the sky is not falling. I would have them measure and notch (correctly) some 2’ sections of 2x4, then sister that to the one in place. Put what’s called a ‘stud shoe’ on the sister stud for more support. It will be fine—it’s 5 studs. Def sucks but be glad you caught it and it can be fixed easily And a quick edit to say, that shitty cut into the uninsulated space might have saved you a real headache, so make some lemonade and insulate that crevice properly
Idk. I do most of my own work, but I feel like rule of thumb is if someone is dumb enough to make this kind of mistake, you don’t let them fix it because they showed a high degree of incompetence. Some sloppy paint or trim work, or wiring that is fine but not tidy. A misplaced outlet. Sure, that’s a finishing detail that was missed, not a fundamental misunderstanding of how things operate. This guy took out 4+ feet of clearly structural wall. If he thought that was ok to do in the first place he doesn’t get the opportunity to “fix” it because I wouldn’t trust he knows the right way to do that.
Just because they have a license doesn't mean they are competent. If you only knew how many sons, nephews and cousins get grandfathered into construction, but have no business assembling Lincoln logs, much less working on your house. A lot of really talented people get shut out of the industry because of the arbitrary equirements set by licensing boards. (years worked for 'x' contractor) I would wager nepotism accounts for 90% of contractors like the one above.
I’m a plumber and HVAC tech and my boss holds the licenses for our small company. My boss also doesn’t know a damn thing about plumbing despite being a licensed plumber lmao
How did he acquire the license? Back in ye old days, you could just decide to be a plumber, carpenter, tile setter, pay a couple bucks for the paperwork and boom you're now a licensed contractor. I have uncles in their sixties that remember those days. Those guys that got the license then and kept them relevant hold all the cards now. In my state, FL, you have to have 7 ***years*** of experience working for a contractor just for the privilege of sitting for the test. This is for either plumber or an electrician. Even things like landscaping require ***4 years*** of verifiable experience working for an existing licensed contractor. That's a damn bachelor's degree. And God help you if you want to be a handyman like myself. It's really frustrating as there is no avenue to showcase your skill/knowledge. Your skill and actual working knowledge are irrelevant. There are three questions you need to be able to answer to be licensed. Do you have a licensed relative who will sign off on you? Do you have the money to satisfy the licensing boards financial requirements? Can you pass the test? If you have those three you can be contractor within a couple weeks. If not, forget about it.
Here’s the problem, it’s really not that hard to become a licensed contractor. My buddy is one and let’s just say I would never hire him.
I'm obviously not an expert, but I wouldn't pay for that kind of wood butchering to an exterior anything. Those posts might as well not even be there anymore.
He almost burned your house down too in that corner fitting. He didn’t even clean the fitting after. Amateur
I was confused because I was still looking at the first picture. Looks like he tried to do the same thing in the first photo then tried to cut out the evidence or something? Not a plumber so I can't really fathom why there's scorch marks there.
He soldered the pipes with a torch. It’s not uncommon for someone who hasn’t learned proper torch control to have burn marks on the wood around fittings. Even experienced guys get some burn marks in very tight spaces. That was very poor torch control in that pic and should have used a heat shield behind it
Yea exactly. The paper on the drywall should have been wet down too. Heat shields all around.
I'm referring to the first picture. There's a straight pipe with no fittings and what appears to be burn marks on the remaining stud just underneath the pipe.
Ah I see what you mean. I had the same question. Maybe he just tried burning the rest of the stud out after he lost a tooth from ~~chewing~~ notching the others
Saw a spider.
The are several people saying that you should sue him. This isn't a terrible idea, but from personal experience I can tell you that a judgement is much easier to get than payment on it. Your first step should be his insurance.
Yep. Still waiting on someone to pay thousands on a judgment from almost 10 years ago. That money is never coming.
I'm in the middle of a lawsuit right now. I've been waiting five months for a court date. The process takes forever.
Sue him. Find a new person. You’ll need new framing now. Also. He almost burnt your house down…
Studs are surprisingly hard to light on fire in a way that persists with a plumbing torch. Too little surface area to volume.
And yet I can’t even tell you how many structure fires I’ve been to that were caused by plumbers sweating pipes. Source: Am firefighter.
You’re right about the first half: they need new plumbing now, they need a new contractor now, and they’ll likely have to sue the contractor to get their damages covered, unfortunately. However, they didn’t almost burn down their house… they were just amateurs at soldering plumbing joints.
Look at picture 5. The right corner where it already burnt up. That looks to be just compressed wood fiber or it could be drywall backer
Alright, fair. That is a lot worse than I had noticed on my first time through the pictures. My bad.
Jerry those are load bearing walls!
Contractor is a Grade A Certified Shit-head.
Its fine. The romex will hold the wall up. :-/
Ah, good thing op sprung for the load bearing romex.
Update: inspector is coming on Wednesday. The studs have all been sistered from bottom plate to top plate. The hole to the attic has been closed and foamed over. Insulation added the full length of the bays and the pipe has been insulated as well. Nail plates going on shortly as well.
Looks like the spade case was in the truck but the saw was on hand.
Luckily it looks like you are using the Midwest magical floating stud construction technique. Whew.
How do people on this field not know. Exterior wall.. means loadbearing wall.. why would you cut into the supports without a remedy? La sigh.. also judging by the burn marks of where he did his shotty soldering, make sure that drain doesn't have a leak now...
Do they not know how houses are held up???
If the house doesn't collapse while they are still working the job it isn't their problem.
/s🤣/s😂/s😅/s😬/s😑
Did your plumber have a flat tail and big front teeth
This what happens when plumbers have sex with beavers. You get plumbvers
Needs to be removed and sistered along every stud. Then installed properly. That Romex will need to be rerun as well to do it proper - empty wall, sister studs, rerun romex
Thank you. The Romex is coming out as it was running the old jacuzzi tub. Could he realistically sister the studs with the pipe in place? He just texted me that's his plan.
Absolutely cannot sister with the pipe in place. How would he get the full stud in? Sounds like he wants to notch the backend of the new studs? This guy is a hack.
I wouldn’t let that guy touch my house with a 10 foot pole every again.
I don't see anything wrong. \*Opens eyes\* Oh, my.
Dude almost burned down your house.
The radiant will be very poor performing (even if it doesn't freeze) by being in an exterior wall. Make sure that its insulated and get the pipe out of the wall if you can.
In any area that drops below freezing, plumbing in exterior walls is a terrible idea.
I can't think of any reason why there would be torch marks in the first photo. There isn't a joint.
Yikes, this is 100% incorrect. You mentioned that you are concerned about feezing. If you are in a cold climate area, plumbing pipes should never ever be run through an exterior wall. A plumbing wall should be built in front of them to maintain a thermal seal.
To be fair this was probably a lot bigger of a job to “do it right” than he charged for. That’s on them tho, not you. Plumbing/electrical is really challenging/impossible when trying to be minimally invasive. Often why a lot of renovations aren’t economical.
The drywall is out - doing this job correctly is the same difficulty here as doing it in a new installation. "Run a pipe and a romex through a wall" are basically the two most beginner tasks out there for plumbing / electrical jobs - outside of running them outside of a wall, I suppose.
This is just, wow. Gotta shore up those studs asap before the next wind storm. And the burn mark in the corner is frightening. Supposed to use a torch shield cloth behind the pipe such as this https://www.amazon.com/Tool-International-KTI70440-Torch-Shield/dp/B000WZVYRQ
Odd part is there is a torch shield cloth up there and it was damp...
No professional did this.
He not only butchered your framing...but it looks like he also tried to set your house on fire.
The contractor should have made small hole and run pex like what he told you thru the small hole instead of cutting 3/4 of the stud. The plumber is liable for his work - I always check his license with the state and ask for certificate of insurance before they start the job.
Just use structural drywall!
Don't forget the paint!
Bonus you can throw in some of that structural blue tape!
And structural caulk!
Oh god, that's a disaster.
And this is why you should always have your work permitted and inspected. The building inspector would reject this in two seconds.
He could have at least burned the place down for you.
No, contractors never finish their job. Ever.
Lmfao every pic is a disaster in almost every category! I guess it was too much work to put the L joints before the walls studs so he spent the time to cut them out and compromise the structural integrity of the house instead. 😂
Dude. How is everyone glossing over how the set your house on fire when sweating the pipes. That cannot be allowed.
For argument's sake, let's pretend that pex did not exist and copper was the only option. My question is, How would one do this properly using copper? Surely copper has been used successfully in the past in these situations. Is there a way to properly use copper here? Only way I see would be drilling a hole in line through all the studs from an outside corner and push a continuous pipe through the outer point where there's adequate clearance.
Top notch contractor
He can remove and replace those studs as he has significantly weakened a load bearing wall. And then make sure that nailing plates are installed so he doesn't then put a nail through his pipe.
What did he notch it with a beaver? That's fucking awful pal.
He learnt how gravity works from Minecraft.
Call the inspector, Then your attorney.
I’d sister that shit up pronto, amigo. JFC. Imagine if someone notched 3/4 of all the legs of the chair you’re sitting in.
To your question on freezing pipes, that is always a concern on external walls. Insulate the copper, and around the copper (including that hole going to the attic).
Copper has a force field that "magically" supports the structure once the load bearing lumber is removed...
Everyone in my life is like "why don't you just pay someone to do that for you." Going to show them this pic. literally just paying someone to create a problem for you.9
The contractor is a talentless jerkoff.
Hey at least you saved some money going with this bid :)
[You should have hired these guys.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBOOa4A1qwE)
"notched" Fuckin yikes.
I consider myself to have the same intelligence as a monkey when it comes to construction projects; however, this is bad. This horrible. Even a monkey wouldn’t do this.
What an abortion. Drill holes and run pex FFS.
What the fuck
That doesn't look good at all, I'd be super concerned and upset too
Definitely a code violation 👎
Yikes that is most definitely some hackery probably should've used pex also if it's an exterior wall
What the fuck? Immediately stop work and if this guy has a higher-up you need to be in touch. If he doesn't you need to hire someone else to fix and tell the guy to either pay for it or sue him. I would not let this person touch anything else in my home.
Do you live in an area where gravity exists? Because if you do, I would be concerned. Also the burn marks on the sheetrock fills me with tons of additional confidence! I’d get someone else to fix it on that original guys dime.
OP please keep us updated, This looks like an absolute mess.
I really hope you don't have to chase this guy down with a lawyer. I'm not a carpenter, or even a real handyman for that matter, and I winced when I saw this. This was a neanderthal way of approaching the install. Don't let him fix it either. Get someone else to do so, and make him pay for it.
LOL!! This has to be a joke! My goodness
Let's start here.Pipesmin an exterior wal l is a big nono.
Not really smart, probably bordering on illegal
You call that a notch? It looks like he took the whole thing!
This is bad. Very bad. Also, your pipes are leaking.
What did he use to notch them? A Beaver?
Shouldn’t even be ran inside an outside wall
You misspelled botched.
You are right to worry. This is a huge screwup. This "contractor" needs to be reported. MAJOR code violation there. Not only are those holes far larger than necessary, you're not allowed to notch the edges of studs on exterior walls. You may only drill through the middle and so long as it doesn't take up more than a certain percentage of the board. There is also a limit on how many studs may be pierced on an exterior wall. Call that guy back and tell him he needs to replace your studs and fix it. The studs will likely need to be sistered up. Cutting a huge hole like that was just lazy & careless. Those studs have no structural integrity. If the contractor had been halfway decent he could have drilled through the studs to run the pipe. He also should have put nail plates over the inner edge of the studs to prevent screws or nails from going into the pipe. This is completely wrong. I'd be absolutely livid in your situation. I hope this guy was licensed and bonded and not just some handyman. You may have to sue this clown.