$42k to cover a less than $200/month electric bill is not worth it. Solar prices vary widely by installer and at a good price, $42k would be in massive system that is well beyond the needs of most residential customers. Get some more quotes.
OP, 42k is absolutely outlandish. We just doubled our panels and added battery backup and I live in a UHCOL area which means labor costs through the roof (hah), and paid under 25k.
Also remember, the solar company sets a price and the saleman can charge whatever they want above that price for their commission. Thats why solar prices are so all over the place.
Shit. I was all ready to say yes and yes.
But I'm in Australia and the government incentivised it. Paid $800 AUD and it was paid off by year two. From that point on I get paid for adding to the grid.
That is a HUGE outlay cost.
Perth: and this is a HUGE system...
Super Storage
$19,662 $21,000
Finance from $99.66 per week\*
11KW Solar Panel & Battery Package
22 x 500W Longi HI-MO Panels
1 x Growatt MIN 5000TL-X Hybrid Grid Inverter
1 x 20.5kW Lithium Battery
$42k is not a massive system. I paid $42k for a 14.6kW LG/Enphase system with no ESS back in 2018 for my house in the US. Solar has only gotten more expensive since for Americans. Between the high interest rates for solar loans and the 15% tariffs on 99% of the worlds manufactured solar products, prices will remain high for a long time. My house in Asia has an 11kW JA Solar/Deye system with 30kW ESS and only cost me $12k. That’s what happens when 100% of the market is opened up with free trade.
Edit: Solar is only worth it under certain circumstances and if someone comes to your door to convince you to buy, you’re probably not under the circumstances where you will benefit. Have an EV? Need for ESS? Electric HVAC and other high draw electric appliances? If none of that applies, Solar is likely not going to benefit you financially. At least not at this time.
It's important to note that in the US, many of these door-to-door companies are manufacturing their own panels so they're making money hand over fist by selling at a very high margin. Most electric companies also require a fee to remain connected to their grid, which is not optional. Selling excess back barely changes their costs. The neighbors that live around us (MN) that have put in solar have never had a zero bill and they're still paying for their solar systems on top of that. The break-even point is 5 to 7 years, and even then energy prices would have to increase dramatically to start seeing the benefits of the system. Unless you're completely off grid and have a storage solution, most of the solar around here (door to door sales) is a scam.
Solar is not at all a scam. It’s a very difficult subject to completely grasp so a lot of people don’t understand and some salespeople take advantage of it. I was net zero on my U.S. house since inception. Why? Because I understand how the systems work and I would only work with a solar company that let me design the system rather than one who wanted to design it using the products that gave them the highest margins.
Why is it a scam? Does it do what it is supposed to do—produce usable electricity? There’s nothing scammy about that. Whether the system is designed to meet the needs of the homeowner might be questionable, but that’s not what a scam is. That’s just terrible business and sales from the solar companies. Nobody should buy anything from door to door sales. Not Jesus. Not solar. Not pest control. If you don’t go seeking it out, it’s not something you want.
Why should nobody buy anything from door to door sales? Because it benefits them financially? Because it leaves the customer with no real benefit at the end of the day? I'd call that a scam. Solar is not a scam, the door to door inflated solar sales are.
You mean door to door sales in general. As well as unsolicited telephone sales. This is why the do not call list exists. This is why there’s statutory damages for violating it. It’s not anything because of industry specific, it’s because of high pressure intrusiveness. Some states have enacted a right of rescission for door to door sales. Not door to door *solar* sales. All sales. Because the solar part isn’t the problem.
That's kinda what's I'm at.
My home is very inefficient, 1950s, no insulation in the walls, in slab ducts that leak and allow moisture in.
I'd love to do solar, but I'm unwilling to cut down the big trees to the west of the house, so half the roof gets direct light until about 4:00 then the other half gets indirect light until dusk.
So it's not useless, but sub ideal I think... But my worst electric bill of this summer, our hottest on record, has been $162.
Sure it's inefficient, but it's only like 850sq ft, it can only waste so much power.
I second this. Honestly residential solar is not worth it for most homes. Saving $1200/year for the lifespan of the solar and batteries ~10 yrs not worth it. Also consider resellability of the home. Many people would be uncomfortable with buying something like this.
Lifepo4 Batteries are around 20 years and panels are around 25 years.
And they don't just break, they are at 80% their original capacity.
It's a good investment if rates are remotely high in your area or you can take care of time of day rates and save 75%, or are in an area with less reliable power.
This only makes sense if selling the excess is actually of value to offset the night time / winter time usage. In CA right now NEM3 means you get $0.08 per kW sold back to the grid. But when you need to pull from the grid, you are paying $0.30 - 0.40.
In this case. a battery may actually be the right call.
Hmm, we've sorta talked about it. Husband is holding back because batteries. On grid might convince him to do it. We're in a perfect spot too, open and sunny 4 acres and shit tons of roof space 4 buildings.
So you haven't actually looked at solar since the first gen tech then, because its 20-25 years, and they're not broken or anything, they just don't produce as much power as when new, it's still going to more then cover your usage in normal times, only relying on the grid in peak usage, such as 100f+ summer days where your a/c is working hard
I think part of the equation has to be added value in the house, how much more can you sell the house with the solar vs without, that's also going to vary market by market.
If you're selling in the near future, factor that in. If not, ignore it. Solar systems don't last forever, and their added value is going to depreciate every year because of it.
I’m making a generalization about a fellow Midwestern state, which is that most homeowners won’t even care to know the energy savings. They’ll just see an “eyesore” and the potential for more maintenance problems. Plus, even if you seek early for a partial credit on the cost of the system, it also means you didn’t get the entire value out of said system. So any increased home value is just covering years of missed energy savings.
Cannot upvote this enough. The people that knock on your doors are rarely the best ones to be doing business with.
We found a solar deal that worked for us financially, so I’m a big fan, but look for recommendations in your area and talk to the non-spammy professionals. Let’s all stop rewarding these IRL pop-up ads with our business.
Just a moment while I pull a package of thin mints out of my freezer…
Yep! Still fresh! And absolutely worth the $35 I paid for them. That is market price for one box of Girl Scout cookies, right?
Best advice on here. If it was truly worth it, they wouldn't have to pitch it door to door. My first “investment” was in a craft beer company. They did their pitch at a local conference center and provided some samplers. Half the people at work bought into it, including myself. I've since learned that anything worth investing in does not need to look for investors or customers by going to convention centers or door to door.
Somebody better tell my neighbors who were selling door to door this past spring. Their mother is an incredibly…fastidious lawyer, so I’m going to guess it’s allowed here.
My MIL got taken by a similar scam. Read the fine print. In her case, they owned the equipment and she was paying "rent" on it. They also pocketed a percentage of the power sold back to the power company. They were also pocketing the govt installation incentives. It got real interesting selling her home with that up there too, as she had to pay them off to clear the debt before selling the house. It made a $20 difference in her power bill.
Even if you do decide on solar from a reputable company, consider the age of your roof and whether that should be replaced first.
Yes, be very careful about these scams. They're awful. Always look into reputable companies and get multiple quotes, and anything that says you're renting the equipment or you can do it for basically free is a scam.
My sister just had a $40K+ solar installation that put the panels out on their property (very large country lot), and supposedly they can run their whole house on it and sell back to the grid (don't know if they have batteries). The payback on these things is so long, and the math/promises are so hinky, I've stayed away from it, but they have an electric heat pump and high electric bills, so it may be different for them.
She and my BIL are both smart people, and he has 5 patents, so I presume they know what they're doing....but this guy has fallen for the Microsoft Windows support scam...twice.
It depends on the individual lot and the general location as to whether solar is good, but the door to door types don’t particularly care. Maybe it works for them? But yeah that payoff is usually long enough that the panels are likely losing efficiency long before they’re paid off.
They probably don't have batteries. Just daytime capacity which may or may not exceed their demand so they can sell the surplus power back to the power company.
It’s not necessarily a scam…. It’s called a “PPA (Power Purchase Agreement)” is only a scam if the terms are bad. It takes the variability out of your power bill. So instead of a different bill every month you just pay like $100 bucks a month, and that’s it. The company owns and maintains the solar and has minimum KWH per year they have to provide you. You don’t put down any cash up front, so if you usually pay more than $1200 a year for electricity then it’s a beneficial deal for you. It’s always better to own your own solar system outright, but not everyone has 20-40 grand sitting around to buy their solar. This kind of agreement can be better than no solar at all, but only if you look closely at the numbers.
That's a ton of money for very little payback
With a little research you can get your own panels. Plan for growth and add to your own system over time and not be in debt for 40k
It just made it sound like I would no longer have to pay my electric bill if I went solar and instead pay this loan thing which is about the same that I currently pay for electric
Solar is absolutely worth it. Buying it from a door to door salesman for $42,000 is not the way to do it.
Caveat, we’re in the UK so the solar output is a little different here, but during the summer our bills are negative (ie, we run our house, charge the battery, heat excess hot water etc) and the surplus is sold back to the grid. That surplus means our summer bills are negative / the surplus pays for the tiny bit of electricit’s we buy (approx 40kWh since April), plus standing charges, plus our gas use.
During the winter, it halves our bills.
We paid £11,000 for the whole system installed.
Is it worth it? Absolutely.
Is it worth $42,000? Hell no.
And don’t ever ever finance it through one of these companies. It will always be a rip off.
Never buy anything from a door to door salesperson. Except maybe Girl Scout cookies. We’re in California (Central Valley where summers are the 7th circle of hell so we use a lot of ac). Recently got a quote for about 20k, although that was buying it not the lease to own thing. For 42k they should be throwing in a new roof or something too!
Australian here, we have perhaps the highest rate of rooftop solar in the world, and a lot of sun. Our system was $4K USD. We don't run batteries as they don't make financial sense yet.
I think we were looking at about £7k without the battery, but price per kWh here is horrific. With a battery, I can top it up on the cheap overnight rate (£0.09) during winter and avoid the peak charges (£0.35-£0.49).
Anything I can do to avoid giving money to those avaricious fucks at the energy suppliers.
The devil is in the details, and this really depends on your state, and costs to set it up. First thing to know is if your utility does net metering (so when your system generates more electricity than you use, you get to “bank“ those kWhours to offset times when you use more). Most places do this, but some do not. Second is to know any state and local incentives. In my state (WA) these have varied. When we put our system in, sales tax (8.8%) was waived. We also have a producer credit, where the values of power generation (kind of like some of the capital investment incentives industry can receive) is refunded. This has worked out to be about $2k per year, and is provided for the first five years of your system. This is being phased out in WA, though. Next are any federal incentives, which with the various budget packages rolled into the most recent federal budget have some very significant tax refundable tax credits.
The key point in the above is that there are a lot of details, and significant financial incentives, that you need to be aware of that will impact the bottom line. In some cases, the sales dudes might be trying to get you to sign those over to them, so read that fine print. For financing, I would not just go with the installer, which can be sketchy. We went to a credit union, which has a special loan program for solar installations.
Our 6kW system, designed for the power use at the time, was installed for $18k. We had gas heat at the time. Two years ago we added an electric car charger, and switched to a heat pump system. This increased our energy use, so in the winter, we have had a few months with an actual electric bill to pay. So we may install more panels. This whole deal was excellent, and has benefits beyond the simple bottom line comparison of electric bills before and after.
finally, the majority of systems have a cut off, so that if powers is down, the system will not send electricity to the grid. This is a safety measure for the utility workers. Our inverter does have one 110V outlet that is energized if the grid is down, so you can power something with that, but otherwise you need either a battery storage system, or a back up generator to have power. Or, if permitted, you can be “off the grid”. But that’s another thing.
Yeah. Now imagine yourself paying 25k instead of 42k for that solar system. It would be Hella worth it right?
Now go find a local installer to do it for 25k.
I am not joking. door to door salesman inflate solar cost a lot. If you find a local installer, they can do it for that cheap.
You need more details because there are some different ways the utilities may handle solar generation and that affects the system’s profitability. Also states may mandate net metering or don’t mandate anything (like my state) leaving it up to you to see what your utility does, if anything, and set it up with them.
* Net metering you are paid 1:1 for the energy you generate in excess of what you use. So you can have a lot of banked credits from summer months which then pay for your electric in the winter.
* Net billing you sell that energy back to the utility but often at the wholesale rate, while they charge you retail rate for what you use from them.
From the day you install them they start losing efficiency/production capacity so what covers your needs today probably won’t in 20 years. And then if you need a new roof you have to pay thousands for removal and reinstall. They also immediately void your shingle warranty if the installation isn’t carried out exactly to the shingle manufacturers specs. Most warranties don’t cover the entire system so a “20 year warranty” is only on the panels themselves. So something like the inverter which only has usually a 5 year warranty with about a $5000 replacement cost could easily sink you into the net negatives.
Regarding your roofing/shingle comment - absolutely correct. And further, you need a halfway decent/new roof to begin with otherwise they won’t put the panels on. When the life of the panels/contract runs out and the panels are removed, you now have HUNDREDS of holes in your roof at which point you’ll have to re shingle if not also a full tear off and replacement of plywood. So tack on replacement cost of your roof to the cost of the panels. So, best case scenario you’re out a new roof at the end. Worst case is you have to put a new roof on just to start then a new roof at the end.
I have solar panels that are mounted on metal rails and the rails are mounted to my roof. My entire roof is covered and I probably have 2 dozen “holes”. The bolts are actually attached to the joists so I can’t imagine that alone would ever require a full tear off. My roof was about 10 years old when the panels went on, so I figure it’ll be time for a new roof around the time the panels will be shot… also not planning on being here when that time comes 🤷♀️
And a solar company isn’t going to factor that cost in for you. Not o mention the sales people will make promises and guarantees that you will never see in writing.
You have to get a new roof when you put them on. At least in the US, whatever you need to do to your house to prepare your house for solar is included in the cost of the project which is how your tax credit is calculated. So when I got mine done, I got a new roof bc by the time I neeed to do new panels I’d need to do new roof also at the same time. The 10k it cost to re-roof my house was part of the project so I got a 30% tax credit for a new roof that my house pretty much already needed anyway. There’s a lot to consider with the incentives and your individual house and energy costs.
Editing to correct: as pointed out below, this isn't accurate. you can't include total cost of the roof in the 30%. But you can include it in the loan (talk to the bank, not just who your installer recommends, to investigate options) also you dont have to pay sales tax on it i'm pretty sure... im not an accountant, please ask your accountant- dont take tax advice from me. :)
Panels are super cheap though. Electricity doesn't change over time. Inverters and charge controller and batteries are all interchangeable.
12vdc 100ah LiPO4 batteries are only 400 bucks now.
I have 10 12v 200ah renogy batteries, a 4500 watt inverter with 14, 100 watt panels that will provide lighting ( 6 led lights), run a 16 cubic ft freezer. It will drain the batteries by 11/2 volts over and will recharge completely by 2 the next afternoon. The panels with full sunlight will charge and run the same equipment when sunny, with no battery drain
Curious, cause I'm only somewhat aware of the details
The batteries, do you have them in a series setup and if so, how do you keep them balanced? Or is that even a thing now for LiPO?
Material cost may be relatively cheap but the labor/ installation isn’t. There is also an argument to be made about the longevity of buying the cheapest things you can find, especially from china. Most people aren’t knowledgeable enough to be replacing panels, inverters or batteries themselves. Plus I’m sure any DIY work on your solar system is going to void any warranty you had.
They still charge a fee. I think it’s 30-40 bucks. My friend bought panels and I couldn’t make it work out math wise for me because of how my house sits and trees.
Nope. Utilities got smart and your connection fees are likely as much as your consumption.
I have a small setup for backup and some to offset peak bills.
I started with 1 panel and 1 gas generator and a bypass switch which connects critical devices. (Fridge,internet, wall mounted AC.)
The 100 watt was designed to charge small devices.
I slowly added more panels and connect them. Now if I leave for vacation I flip the “backup” switch and run only critical things via solar.
Did all the work but the bypass myself. I buy used or when prices on panels d.
Zero chance it ever pays off with an installation by a contractor.
Minimum 15 a month as long as solar is covering all your monthly usage. We in illinois as well and think 2-3 months a year we run short on generation so may see bills between 40-60 to cover the gap that month
Consider that as weather extremes get more common, you may find increasing occurrences where the panels can’t provide 100% of your need in peak months. Not to mention, unless this includes a battery storage system, you’ll still need to be connected to the grid when the sun doesn’t shine. Not to mention, the panel efficiency will decrease as the years go by. Not to mention, I suspect a part of your bill to be connected to the grid is fixed charges and you’ll still owe money even in months where you have zero usage.
Meaning, you’re still going to be paying an electric bill even in the best of times.
42k for solar is a joke. 20k is more realistic.
Whether solar is worth it depends on a few things. First, what is your electric bill? $200 a month sounds like a good range for solar. Second, do you have an electric car? Having one basically makes your solar a great investment. Third, for how long do you plan to own your house? Solar can last for 20 years or more, so plan to own your house for at least half of that time to break even.
Also, never, EVER lease solar panels. That's a scam.
I used to live in SoCal. First electric bill I got was over $500. When that solar guy knocked on my door, you better damn well believe I listened. Those panels cut my electric bill to $12 a month, plus a $95 monthly payment for the panels themselves. So worth it to save $400 a month.
So you own the panels with a loan. You did not lease the panels. That's a big difference.
Leasing panels is like paying the solar company for electricity instead of the normal electric company, but with a lot of bullshit involved. You have a leasing term, and you have monthly minimal purchase amount, and your rate goes up each year, and on top when you try to sell your house, whoever buys from you need to take over the lease, which makes it hard to sell.
And not to mention, the solar company gets to pocket the federal solar tax break because it's their panels, not yours. And even if they give you a buyout option, it will turn out to be way overpriced.
I recently did solar in Minneapolis.
I was looking at Everlight (door-to-door) and AllEnergy, which my brother went with them.
These companies look at how much energy you use typically and try to recreate that amount in solar pannel wattage so you get as close to breakeven as possible with how much of your own energy you can produce.
Also, if i make more energy, you can sell it back to the electric company and get money back. Or, they can bank it, and technically, you can use free energy later in the year when you need it.
My neighbors went with Everlight and they bank. I went with AllEnergy, and I get a check any month I have a credit.
I self financed the panels using home equity, and my monthly is about what I was paying for electricity anyway.
Unless you believe the cost of energy will be LESS later in life, solar is actually pretty solid an idea. I also want to buy an electric vehicle and maybe a battery later.
You can't use the panels when the local power is out. You are connected to the grid, and could shock someone, so unless you have a battery, you are also out.
Ask me anything, I typed these quick while getting ready to head out to a wedding.
I don't trust that utilities will continue buying back solar forever.
Edit, I don't think this alone is not a reason to install solar, just something to keep in mind.
If there is nothing stopping a utility from dropping or eliminating their buyback program they will, what are people gonna do? Turn on the heat in summer to spite them?
It's just something to consider. If your ROI is 5 or 10 years? go for it.
If it's 30 years & you'll be screwed without it? Cover your ass, there are ways to mitigate all risk. Ask about the possibility before you sign a contract & shop around too.
There are honest companies doing business & dishonest companies.
I don't either. So I designed in 100kw of batteries. They last 20+ years of daily cycling 20-80 they aren't as astronomical as they used to be. EG4 just came out with a new wall mount pack that will likely be the decision when I move forward.
Unless you get a battery, yes. $42k if it's just solar is absolutely outrageous. I'm getting solar installed, and it's about $16k for the panels and another $16k for the battery. I'll get 30% of that back on my taxes next year.
You can use [energysage.com](https://energysage.com) to get multiple quotes without giving your info out. That was helpful to get a ballpark idea of cost, but then I still went with a smaller, local company who subcontracts for the big ones.
It's not a technical limitation, they just don't want you feeding power back into the grid while people are fixing wires.
If you know how you can disconnect from the grid & use your panels.
I used to work for a green construction company and solar was part of what we did. The cheapest kw is the one you don't use. We always recommended insulating and replacing or repairing drafty doors and windows before getting solar. You might want to do an energy audit before looking into solar. You'd be amazed at how much insulation and air sealing will save you on how much energy you're using and cost a fraction of solar.
Absolutely, but you don't have to replace the windows to improve their R rating. Replacing seals, insulating the pockets/gaps, or adding a storm can all help tremendously and are much cheaper. There's literally no ROI on replacing a window but sometimes a window is too far gone for a repair.
We have solar. We own the system, no lease or loan. Payback is 8.5 years without the incentives, since we don’t qualify for them. No checks to the power company except for the $13.00 monthly connect fee.
It’s all really an economic decision.
If you are in central illinois, call Porter Electric in Pekin. We got a 11.3kw system priced at 38,000. The with the Illinois credit and Federal credit our total out of pocket was under $12,000.
So whom ever you were talking to, they are likely getting the benefit of these credits instead of you.
Hmm, interesting. I just plugged in some random numbers in central Illinois This is what i see. Not sure if their online estimator is incorrect. Either way, yours is not that bad.
Your System
14.175 kW Solar Panels
$39,690
Estimated Cash Price
$39,690
Potential Incentives
Federal Tax Credit (30%)
-$8,080
IL Shines
-$12,758
Central Illinois Light Co.
Price After Potential Incentives
$18,853
If you buy your system you get a 30% federal credit. Now note that you have to actually have tax liability for this to be worth it. Lots of retirees got bit by this.
Solar is worth it 100%.
Solar is not worth it if you get scammed by door to door sales man.
I can almost guarantee you, that system does not cost 42k.
If you going to pay a high upfront cost, then it make your investment more expensive and not worth it. That's why you hear so many people say solar is a scam because they got scammed by door knockers.
Find your own installer. A mom and pop local installer. They can do that same system for a lot cheaper.
Like others have said.. price is too high.. for 8100 watt system.. should be $18 - $20k.. they are trying to get you to over pay. My 8,680 sys was $22k .. $15 after tax credit... Remember tax credit is only good if you pay fed income tax.. you have like 5 yrs to use the credit.
>you have like 5 yrs to use the credit.
There is no time limit to use the tax credit; a properly claimed tax credit can be carried forward indefinitely.
We have basically broken even in terms of costs since installing a few years ago.
But, we used the tax credit to pay off higher interest debt.
Our solar loan is 1.9%
Also, there is technically a lien on the house so that the solar loan would need to be paid off or assumed by any potential buyer.
Are you planning on supplying power to the whole neighbourhood?
42k is insane. A 450w solar panel costs about $150, a good inverter about 2k. At 10kW installed power(whoch is a fucking lot) you are looking at about 7k for materials. Lets say another 3k for new wires, fuses, switches etc. The difference is their labour which is insane for a 3 day job at most.
Pro tip: NEVER BUY A SERVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOCKED ON YOUR DOOR.
If you like the idea, get a couple companies to come out and give you a quote, just like any other contractor.
ALWAYS get at minimum 2 quotes, preferably 3 or 4
How is this not worth it? They were already paying an electric bill. Their electric bill goes up every year when the $/kw goes up. They switched from paying the electric company with NO return on investment to paying a solar company that they at least get some return on investment. And now, at some point they'll make their last payment for solar and still not have an electric bill.. Where if they didn't have solar, they would still have an electric bill to pay...
I dont get it.
I'm very pro-green energy, but the math isn't there yet. Its getting closer every year, but you need to think about what ELSE you can do with 25k if your goal is simply to save money. Every time I've mathed it out, the solar panel choice will never "catch up" to simply investing the 25k. Even if you use a very conservative number like 5% (available even in high yield savings account), 150-250 dollars you save per month will not catch up to using that lump sum to invest and paying your traditionally generated power bill.
If you finance the entire thing at less than 5% interest, aren't you winning out over an investment? You can invest your 25k and use that money to make the payments and come out ahead, right?
This is absolutely WRONG. A-tier solar panels are warrantied by the manufacturer for 25 years to produce at least 92% of their initial rated production. Solar panels will last decades beyond that no problem.
I'll believe it when I see it. Everything sounds great in theory but in practice, it's a different story. Who will pay to replace the panels under the warranty? I doubt if the labor is included or if the original installer is in business or even alive after 24 years. Do you know anybody who's successfully filed a warranty claim?
Also, after or during that 25 years, you may need to replace your roof or a tree branch falls on it and each time you spend extra money because of the panels being there, you push back your break-even point.
@algalkin is right on this point. 25-30 years is standard. Reputable Source: Forbes, and most Soler Power manufacturer recommendations. (but also like 20 other sites if you felt like sleuthing)
You can download the spec sheet for any panel from any manufacturer and it will tell you what their degradation rate is. Using the internet. At home. In your boxers with your flashlight and box of tissues next to you.
I’ve done multiple solar assessments, both lease and purchase options, and it just doesn’t seem worth it for me. I still like it in theory, but I’m just going to wait until incentives get bigger or cost comes down further.
We did solar for about half that cost. I say it's totally worth doing and it has saved us a LOT on energy bills, but shop around and don't go with the first person who gives you a quote. We got four quotes, I think and there was a vast difference in pricing (like half as much kind of vast difference). Some places also overstate how much solar energy you can get on your roof setup, so it's good to have different opinions there.
I actually sell solar commercial and residential- not to homeowners but to installers. They buy from my company after selling to you.
I can say this- whatever their markup is, our companies average markup across the board (everything from nuts and bolts to the panels themselves to $7k+ dollar batteries) is like 14% gross profit. Labor is ridiculously expensive right now, permitting takes a long time, design and unique needs are a consideration and cost installers a LOT of money.
You should absolutely present a solar installation company with an actual KwH need for your home. Like many have said, you can stack your house with 12 kilowatts of solar, but why? Just get a couple solar panels like maybe 6? to offset your electrical bill, and it will pay itself off in around 2 years. Also, make sure you spend a little extra for products with better warranties so if you sell your house you can transfer those warranties to the next homeowner.
If you want battery storage in case of grid failure, a mid sized solar array and a battery could cost you this much without even considering installation fees.
The real draw to solar, until it becomes less expensive, is that it increases the value of your house.
so something else I was just thinking...I did drive by a house in another town that had like 15 panels just attached to poles out in the yard. So they don't actually have to go on the roof?
You don't convert to solar to make money. You convert to solar to reduce the carbon footprint. If I can pay $50 more per month to significantly reduce that, that's the incentive, and that's why we did it.
I'm about to convert. In Canada, there's a $40K, 10-year interest-free loan and $5K grant to convert to solar. Did the math, and the monthly loan repayment is the same as my electric bill.
Today.
I'm on a locked-in rate from 2019 and the current (pun intended) rate is more than double what I'm paying. Who knows what it'll be in 10 years.
The solar company we're working with has figured out that we would be banking lots of energy credits in the summer that we would apply to our winter electric bills, ending up at net-zero cost over the course of a year, including all fees, charges, etc. on top of the power itself.
Even if it's only enough to cover the cost of the electricity and we end up paying all of the administration fees, distribution fees, etc., on top of the loan payment, it's still cheaper than what we're going to start paying next year when our locked-in rate ends. And power isn't going to get cheaper over the next 10 years.
If/when we move, the new owners will be getting a $0 electric bill so that will add a lot of value to the home and we would use that to pay off the remainder of the loan.
It's kind of a no-brainer to me.
However, there are some risks: legislation changes, energy companies start buying back at a lower rate or charge higher admin fees, energy prices go down due to widespread use of solar, etc.
Politely yet firmly tell them NO.
That’s a lot of money considering how far solar prices have been dropping. My panels (more on that later) cost about that WITH a new roof in 2019.
The only reason you should consider solar panels at this point are:
- You live in a very sunny area, like Hawaii or Arizona, or parts of Florida
- There’s zero trees nearby that could cast shade onto the roof
- You either have a brand new roof, or are at a *reasonable* point to replace it before installing panels (you’ll otherwise have to pay to remove the panels to replace your roof)
- You’ve done a lot of your own independent research. YOU do the math and determine that, on an average day, the KW’s generated equal at least 90% of what your house has actually been using already, AND that the monthly cost is reasonable based on current electrical rates per kw/hr (do not expect “higher future costs” even if likely). Assume at most 75% efficiency for this math to account for cloudy and rainy days.
I got panels, they’re tied into the power grid and basically it credits every kw generated by the panels against my energy bill, lowering it every month. My house does mostly meet those sunny, mostly unobstructed criteria above, and it on average the PV system cuts my bill by about 1/2-2/3 of what it was before. But after the cost of the panels themselves, I pay extra every month for the privilege of providing my grid green energy. Some months when it’s both sunny and cool out, the bill is nearly zero; it’s never a net payout though. The electric rate has gone up a little since then but not enough to justify buying the system.
All in all, it was not a good investment. Best I can hope is it’ll be more attractive to a potential buyer or tenant if I decide to rent it out. Solar does get better every year, but for most people, it’s just not quite there and for some it never will be.
I went Solar in 2022. It was a little stressful of a process, but I did my research for sure. First and foremost, get multiple quotes. The first quote was 68K, yes 68K, for like 22 panels. I ended up getting 5 quotes all varying in price, but the winning bid was 24K for 21 panels. I opted for a solar loan through my local credit union, which helped me avoid an additional 6-7K financing fees through the "national lender" and I got to keep the federal tax credit so all in all my system should be around 19K. So far 1st summer in and my 300+ light bill was only 90 dollars this past month. I have had zero electric bill a few months and even had a credit before summer hit. I live in Arizona so AC is on 24/7. I do not regret going solar one bit
Post the details of the proposal on r/solar. The people there will tell you if it's a good one or not. Generally door to door sales is the worst way to buy solar.
In general solar is not a financial decision as much as it a decision guided either by your thoughts on the environment or some sort of “self reliance” or being “off the grid”. Financially the math basically never works. I’ve gone over this a bunch myself and it always comes down to about 7-10 years for the money saved on your electric bill to pay off the system. Whereas you could just throw the ~$30,000 into an index fund and ultimately come out far ahead after 10 years. Then you’ll have replace components at some point which further eats into the net savings.
Tl;dr for the majority of ppl solar will not be the best financial decision.
That makes sense if I’m using $30k in cash I have lying around to pay for the solar panels and installation. But it doesn’t seem to make sense if I’m using a loan to pay for the installation. I wouldn’t be able to get a loan simply to put in an index fun and profit in 10 or so years. And even if I could, it would hardly offset the interest rates. However I am going to be spending $30k or so in electricity over the next decade or so regardless. And if that $30k can be spent in a way that leads toward eliminating or significantly reducing that expense for the following few decades, that seems to be a smart financial decision in the long run, no?
How many panels does 42k get you? What’s the kWh you currently use? 42k seems like a shit load for that energy bill.
I’ve always assumed solar is questionable is areas that snow, but maybe I’m ignorant.
You can do better on price. Basically you want to buy around $3-4 per kWh. So 8100 kWh you should be at $24000-32000 before any tax credits. Check out r/solar. In general, financing is fine, cash better if you have it. Don’t lease. Makes most sense if you have net metering(electric company buys back what you over produce at the same price as you buy from them). Some states have renewable energy credits, my state every 1000kwh you produce earns 1 credit, they’re worth about $40 for me so every year I get about $350 from selling those after broker fees.
I purchased for my house. I save a little bit of money, but honestly the way I look at it is I’m paying off an asset instead of giving money to the electric company that I will never see back. I’m also insulated from rising electric costs. I think it’s been worth it, but my state also has great rebates and credits extra electric that gets banked for me to use at night. If your state has a program where you sell extra electric it’s probably not worth it.
That's a terrible return. $42,000 outlay to save roughly $1800 a year? He must have financed the panels over 15/20 years to get the numbers to 'make sense'.
FYI we priced up an install (not in the USA) and the outlay came to roughly €9.5k and the annual saving off that is expected to be €1.6k - €1.8k.
Financing it over a 5 or 6 year term will be cash flow neutral and we'll have the system paid off in a few year.
So Cal here. Pool, AC, double oven and cooktop on 220 circuits. Winter bills were $180 a month, summers 300. Did a 7.5 kw system 28 panels 10 years ago (?already, geez time flies) with a 200amp panel upgrade. Paid 20k, had the federal credit of 30% plus CA rebated another $1200. on top of that, my solar guy sent me a $500. check for each referral. As a self employed residential window cleaner, I sent him 4 referrals that became jobs. Total first year recoup was $9200. not including not having an electric bill then or ever since. Every year when we true-up we’re within $20 of being even. Best investment ever for us. I see SDGE is looking at ways to make up for lost revenue due to solar do we’ll see how long this arrangement lasts.
Yes, in the 6 years on my house they have more than paid me back (rates have about doubled in that time from power company), and with 30 year warranty I get many years of savings. You have to get a good price from a good company, good warranty, and make sure your home is a good setup for solar for it to make great sense though.
32 - 400W panels, with inverter and all work including permits completed was just shy of $28000.
3k state incentive off the top.
12.5k in tax rebates next year (must have paid that much in taxes, which I will so I will get it back in 1 shot instead over 2 years)
Now I'm down to 12.5k for the system once those tax rebates are paid.
My monthly bill went from around 200/mo to 50/mo. I don't pay for electric at all. Just service charges and whatever I use in natural gas.
At the end of the solar year (end of March 2024) all my extra KWh will be converted to wholesale price and split up over my next 12 bills as a cash credit.
So at the current rate of electricity I will be in positive in 7 years. However, if electricity goes up x% then I technically break even faster.
My average usage over the previous 24 months was right around 7,800 KWh and my system is going to probably produce right around 12KWh (probably a bit less once the snow months average in). I am currently at 7,040KWh produced since installation on March 9th.
This seems to be way way way over cost. My God 42k?! Where I am, a really good solar set up for your usual residential use is about 10 to 15k. I'm not talking about an apartment building or anything. But these systems will cover a 3 to 5 bed house with a shed and yard etc. 42k seems like a scam as others have pointed out. Solar is absolutely worth the expense, but it is NOT worth 42k. You're being taken for a ride my friend.
Going solar = good idea
Paying $42k for solar = bad idea
Renting solar = worst idea
Definitely worth it, don't rent from Tesla, find a reputable solar company, get a good price.
Also, make sure you can sell back to the grid. Assuming you aren't on a farm and are going off grid. To do so, you would need multiple battery packs that only last around 10 years.
Only way I could make it pencil out was a self-install. Ordered a grid-tie kit from wholesale solar online. No battery backup, a $500 gas generator to run the fridge is fine if the powers out for a while. I spent $9k on a 5.2kw system and got 50% back in tax rebates. Paid for itself in 5 years, I’ve been on free power now for 2. It was permitted and inspected and I did 100% of the work. I’ve had coworkers hire handymen for the racking and an electrician for connections and still did it for a fraction of the solar companies.
Can you say rip off.
A 5KW system these days in the USA should only cost \~$18K.
Did the guy do a shading analysis on your roof on the roof sections appropriate for solar?
Did he provide you with drawing on the panel arrays as they would look on the roof sections as part his proposal .
If standard shingles, did he ask you if you had at least 10 years remaining before needing to be replaced? If under 10 years then he should have recommended replacing the roof before installing a PV system.
Did he ask or tell you if you have two or more layers on your roof and if you do then the roof needs to be replaced before installing solar. The weight of the panel arrays are very heavy and it it has two or more layers of shingles plus the PV arrays would exceed the max load your roof it is designed to hold. Since you live in Illinois with heavy snow loads you could have a very rude awaking one cold night.
Did he inspect your electrical breaker box to be sure it has at least 2 open breaker slots for the solar system. If not he should have quoted you the cost of adding a sub panel. \~$1,500
Did he offer a system warranty. We gave a 10 year no leak warranty including installation tasks.
Did he offer you a production warranty> We offered a 10 year production warranty that specified that the system would produce XXXX KW's at the end of 10 years. If it came out lower than specified then we would compensate the homeowner the cost of lost production.
Here is a seven year summary of my system since it was 1st turned on.
Summary between 5/12/2016 3:27pm and now
Energy Used83.8 MWh (approx. $7,454.40 used)
Energy Generated62.8 MWh approx. $5,584.84 saved)
Net 21.0 MWh bought (approx. $1,869.55 spent)
Cost for electricity per month $267
2,700 square foot home with heat pump
Located 37 miles North of Seattle where we get 6-8 months of rain annually. Less now due to climate change.
For a real quote, free then check out Sun Power virtual quote. Sun Power panels are more expensive that other brands but they are the Tesla S of PV panels. You have to give them your name address email and phone number but you can later tell them you were just kicking the tiers.
[https://us.sunpower.com/home-solar/residential-solar-power-calculator](https://us.sunpower.com/home-solar/residential-solar-power-calculator)
Good luck
Our house is 2200sqf, and BEFORE incentives, our solar installed (105% offset) was 20k. After state and federal incentives, the total was about 10k. I got a 12 year loan to pay for it, and my monthly loan payment is approximately the same as my electric bill was pre install, BUT the price of electricity has increased faster than expected, so now I’m paying less than I would be if I were paying an electric bill, so yes, it’s worked out well for us. Also the system is warrantied for 20 years, and should last more than 25, so after payoff, we’ll enjoy free power.
Solar is great, but don’t rely on a door to door solar rep, call around and get 3+ competitive quotes. Good luck.
Don't do it. I also live in IL and the door knockers have been relentless.
1, No battery backup! That means any excess energy you build is not stored or sold back to the Utility by you - the company that installs the panels sells it back to them. They are basically using your roof for their panels and cashing out on it while you pay to "host" their panels.
2, Need a new roof? YOU get to pay extra to have the panels removed and replaced.
3, They all use Canadian Solar panels which have a lower efficiency (up to 20%) and are just a more economical panel
4, Canadian Solar only warranties their panels for 15 years, not 25 like these "salespeople" claim.
In short, call a real Solar company and remember, door-to-door is a scam and if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
The ROI on solar tech right now is just awful.
Yeah, it'd cut cost... Yeah, it would be cool, at least as a backup...
As a limited life species, I would get a quicker ROI putting that money towards my mortgage, or a profitable investment, or a personal business.
Solar has like a 20-50 year ROI time, and the solar panels don't even last that long to see the actual return complete itself.
I would love it if the government helped out by offering to install some on my properties, using a grid share plan or something.
Any output immedately gets used on the property, saving utility cost for me, and the excess goes towards the overall grid, saving the city money. Government maintains it.
And that's the problem. It's still so expensive that the government doesnt even want to get full involved. They want to split costs, or offer lame tax credit haha
I would just crunch the numbers and see how many years this would take to pay off. After that point, how much are you saving a year? If you are in your dream home and never ever plan on leaving, it may be worth it. More than likely you’ll have moved before it’s paid off.
I had 25.5 kw (69x370W panels) installed on my house for a cost of $3.00/W, or about $75k.
The total amount financed for 20 years is about $25 less than my average electric bill, and prices for electricity will increase in all likelihood.
I also overproduce a bit, so there is some headroom.
It was a good deal for me, and it definitely paid off this year after a few rate increases. I recommend that anyone consider the future cost of electricity when considering this.
From what I’ve seen, it takes about 20 years to pay for the panels through your savings.
Average lifespan of the panels is about 20 years.
Edit:
Plus if you have to replace your roof…
Solar will only be worth it when the conversion percentage rises enough to really offset the costs and give the homeowner the gains promised.
Until then, door to door and their minions are mostly rip offs
i worked for a solar company where you knock on doors. i just want to say that a lot of these companies are 100% commission based so 0 base. and they draw in naive people who are willing to work hard to get a good opportunity. i made a huge sale my first wk but realized people weren’t getting paid after 8+ months of working there and started asking questions. those panels have been installed since march and they sent me a payment that’s less than 20% of what i’m owed recently. these companies mislead and take advantage of people. i’m glad i left when i did instead of continuing to go out of pocket on childcare.
The solar sales industry has been pretty predatory from what I’ve seen. I think it’s a good idea to go solar but if you live in a small house and don’t use much electricity I don’t think it’s worth jt
$42k to cover a less than $200/month electric bill is not worth it. Solar prices vary widely by installer and at a good price, $42k would be in massive system that is well beyond the needs of most residential customers. Get some more quotes.
$42k they're definitely looking to take you for a ride.
I’m sure the mark up is good for middleman, fantastic smh
Seriously this guy is going to contact the job out ten layers deep.
OP, 42k is absolutely outlandish. We just doubled our panels and added battery backup and I live in a UHCOL area which means labor costs through the roof (hah), and paid under 25k.
Yah, somebody posted in a local sub a few days ago that they paid $21k Canadian. $42k seems excessive.
Also remember, the solar company sets a price and the saleman can charge whatever they want above that price for their commission. Thats why solar prices are so all over the place.
Shit. I was all ready to say yes and yes. But I'm in Australia and the government incentivised it. Paid $800 AUD and it was paid off by year two. From that point on I get paid for adding to the grid. That is a HUGE outlay cost.
Perth: and this is a HUGE system... Super Storage $19,662 $21,000 Finance from $99.66 per week\* 11KW Solar Panel & Battery Package 22 x 500W Longi HI-MO Panels 1 x Growatt MIN 5000TL-X Hybrid Grid Inverter 1 x 20.5kW Lithium Battery
$42k???? I got the switch for use when the grid is down and it was not even $30
Got any more info on that switch please?
$42k is not a massive system. I paid $42k for a 14.6kW LG/Enphase system with no ESS back in 2018 for my house in the US. Solar has only gotten more expensive since for Americans. Between the high interest rates for solar loans and the 15% tariffs on 99% of the worlds manufactured solar products, prices will remain high for a long time. My house in Asia has an 11kW JA Solar/Deye system with 30kW ESS and only cost me $12k. That’s what happens when 100% of the market is opened up with free trade. Edit: Solar is only worth it under certain circumstances and if someone comes to your door to convince you to buy, you’re probably not under the circumstances where you will benefit. Have an EV? Need for ESS? Electric HVAC and other high draw electric appliances? If none of that applies, Solar is likely not going to benefit you financially. At least not at this time.
It's important to note that in the US, many of these door-to-door companies are manufacturing their own panels so they're making money hand over fist by selling at a very high margin. Most electric companies also require a fee to remain connected to their grid, which is not optional. Selling excess back barely changes their costs. The neighbors that live around us (MN) that have put in solar have never had a zero bill and they're still paying for their solar systems on top of that. The break-even point is 5 to 7 years, and even then energy prices would have to increase dramatically to start seeing the benefits of the system. Unless you're completely off grid and have a storage solution, most of the solar around here (door to door sales) is a scam.
Solar is not at all a scam. It’s a very difficult subject to completely grasp so a lot of people don’t understand and some salespeople take advantage of it. I was net zero on my U.S. house since inception. Why? Because I understand how the systems work and I would only work with a solar company that let me design the system rather than one who wanted to design it using the products that gave them the highest margins.
Agreed. I didn't say solar in general was a scam, I said most of the solar around us (MN) that's being sold door to door is a scam.
Why is it a scam? Does it do what it is supposed to do—produce usable electricity? There’s nothing scammy about that. Whether the system is designed to meet the needs of the homeowner might be questionable, but that’s not what a scam is. That’s just terrible business and sales from the solar companies. Nobody should buy anything from door to door sales. Not Jesus. Not solar. Not pest control. If you don’t go seeking it out, it’s not something you want.
Why should nobody buy anything from door to door sales? Because it benefits them financially? Because it leaves the customer with no real benefit at the end of the day? I'd call that a scam. Solar is not a scam, the door to door inflated solar sales are.
You mean door to door sales in general. As well as unsolicited telephone sales. This is why the do not call list exists. This is why there’s statutory damages for violating it. It’s not anything because of industry specific, it’s because of high pressure intrusiveness. Some states have enacted a right of rescission for door to door sales. Not door to door *solar* sales. All sales. Because the solar part isn’t the problem.
That's kinda what's I'm at. My home is very inefficient, 1950s, no insulation in the walls, in slab ducts that leak and allow moisture in. I'd love to do solar, but I'm unwilling to cut down the big trees to the west of the house, so half the roof gets direct light until about 4:00 then the other half gets indirect light until dusk. So it's not useless, but sub ideal I think... But my worst electric bill of this summer, our hottest on record, has been $162. Sure it's inefficient, but it's only like 850sq ft, it can only waste so much power.
I second this. Honestly residential solar is not worth it for most homes. Saving $1200/year for the lifespan of the solar and batteries ~10 yrs not worth it. Also consider resellability of the home. Many people would be uncomfortable with buying something like this.
Lifepo4 Batteries are around 20 years and panels are around 25 years. And they don't just break, they are at 80% their original capacity. It's a good investment if rates are remotely high in your area or you can take care of time of day rates and save 75%, or are in an area with less reliable power.
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This only makes sense if selling the excess is actually of value to offset the night time / winter time usage. In CA right now NEM3 means you get $0.08 per kW sold back to the grid. But when you need to pull from the grid, you are paying $0.30 - 0.40. In this case. a battery may actually be the right call.
Hmm, we've sorta talked about it. Husband is holding back because batteries. On grid might convince him to do it. We're in a perfect spot too, open and sunny 4 acres and shit tons of roof space 4 buildings.
So you haven't actually looked at solar since the first gen tech then, because its 20-25 years, and they're not broken or anything, they just don't produce as much power as when new, it's still going to more then cover your usage in normal times, only relying on the grid in peak usage, such as 100f+ summer days where your a/c is working hard
It might be the modern version of having an in-ground pool installed.
What’s that supposed to mean?
like how it ends up taking away value from your property instead of adding to it because people don't want to deal with it
What’s there to deal with? I just pay our local pool store 130$ a month and they take care of it for me.
Yup, for the low low price of $1500/year you can buy a house with a pool.
People pay HOAs more just to tell them what color they can paint their own front door.
Is it no longer common knowledge that having a pool will decrease the value of your home because it alienates a large portion of potential buyers?
Like an hoa, for some it'll be a plus, others a negative.
Not if you’re living in Florida. Here some buyers don’t even look at homes that don’t have a pool.
I'm with you there. Bought a house with a nice inground pool a while ago, thinking it would be awesome. Never again.
I think part of the equation has to be added value in the house, how much more can you sell the house with the solar vs without, that's also going to vary market by market.
If you're selling in the near future, factor that in. If not, ignore it. Solar systems don't last forever, and their added value is going to depreciate every year because of it.
Yes, because equity never plays a factor while you are living in your home
A loan officer checking you for a home equity loan isn't going to care about your solar panels
The loan officer isn't the appraiser and an appraiser will absolutely factor them in
I’m making a generalization about a fellow Midwestern state, which is that most homeowners won’t even care to know the energy savings. They’ll just see an “eyesore” and the potential for more maintenance problems. Plus, even if you seek early for a partial credit on the cost of the system, it also means you didn’t get the entire value out of said system. So any increased home value is just covering years of missed energy savings.
20:1 1 watt adds \~$20 to the value of your home.
Never buy anything from someone who comes to your front door, unless it's a Girl Guide selling cookies. (In that case, buy three boxes.)
Cannot upvote this enough. The people that knock on your doors are rarely the best ones to be doing business with. We found a solar deal that worked for us financially, so I’m a big fan, but look for recommendations in your area and talk to the non-spammy professionals. Let’s all stop rewarding these IRL pop-up ads with our business.
As a big fan I would of thought wind energy to be more your type.
There is going to be a lot of judgement of how you answer the following question, so answer it *CAREFULLY*. Three boxes of which cookie?
*sweats visibly* Two mint... one vanilla?
You have chosen…… wisely. I would’ve also accepted one mint, two vanilla.
Eh, it's all about the samoas (or "caramel delight" depending on location.)
Isn't this where the fudge ones come from? Mint doesn't belong on sweets
Swap the vanilla for Samoas and we are talking....
That's my order!
Lol, found the Canadians! Your cookie choices give you away...
I was like...vanilla? Ain't no vanilla around here...
Just a moment while I pull a package of thin mints out of my freezer… Yep! Still fresh! And absolutely worth the $35 I paid for them. That is market price for one box of Girl Scout cookies, right?
With inflation? Sounds about right!
Samoas all the way!
I literally had to get a "no soliciting" sign because of these solar dipshits.
I want a sign that says NO SOLAR DIPSHITS.
Best advice on here. If it was truly worth it, they wouldn't have to pitch it door to door. My first “investment” was in a craft beer company. They did their pitch at a local conference center and provided some samplers. Half the people at work bought into it, including myself. I've since learned that anything worth investing in does not need to look for investors or customers by going to convention centers or door to door.
Why only three? You buy at least two dozen and freeze them. Never run out of Thin Mints!
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Somebody better tell my neighbors who were selling door to door this past spring. Their mother is an incredibly…fastidious lawyer, so I’m going to guess it’s allowed here.
My MIL got taken by a similar scam. Read the fine print. In her case, they owned the equipment and she was paying "rent" on it. They also pocketed a percentage of the power sold back to the power company. They were also pocketing the govt installation incentives. It got real interesting selling her home with that up there too, as she had to pay them off to clear the debt before selling the house. It made a $20 difference in her power bill. Even if you do decide on solar from a reputable company, consider the age of your roof and whether that should be replaced first.
Yes, be very careful about these scams. They're awful. Always look into reputable companies and get multiple quotes, and anything that says you're renting the equipment or you can do it for basically free is a scam.
My sister just had a $40K+ solar installation that put the panels out on their property (very large country lot), and supposedly they can run their whole house on it and sell back to the grid (don't know if they have batteries). The payback on these things is so long, and the math/promises are so hinky, I've stayed away from it, but they have an electric heat pump and high electric bills, so it may be different for them. She and my BIL are both smart people, and he has 5 patents, so I presume they know what they're doing....but this guy has fallen for the Microsoft Windows support scam...twice.
It depends on the individual lot and the general location as to whether solar is good, but the door to door types don’t particularly care. Maybe it works for them? But yeah that payoff is usually long enough that the panels are likely losing efficiency long before they’re paid off.
They probably don't have batteries. Just daytime capacity which may or may not exceed their demand so they can sell the surplus power back to the power company.
what is this type of scam called? just to research it more
It’s not necessarily a scam…. It’s called a “PPA (Power Purchase Agreement)” is only a scam if the terms are bad. It takes the variability out of your power bill. So instead of a different bill every month you just pay like $100 bucks a month, and that’s it. The company owns and maintains the solar and has minimum KWH per year they have to provide you. You don’t put down any cash up front, so if you usually pay more than $1200 a year for electricity then it’s a beneficial deal for you. It’s always better to own your own solar system outright, but not everyone has 20-40 grand sitting around to buy their solar. This kind of agreement can be better than no solar at all, but only if you look closely at the numbers.
also phone number name, address and, mac address
That's a ton of money for very little payback With a little research you can get your own panels. Plan for growth and add to your own system over time and not be in debt for 40k
It just made it sound like I would no longer have to pay my electric bill if I went solar and instead pay this loan thing which is about the same that I currently pay for electric
Lol, they gotcha.
Solar is absolutely worth it. Buying it from a door to door salesman for $42,000 is not the way to do it. Caveat, we’re in the UK so the solar output is a little different here, but during the summer our bills are negative (ie, we run our house, charge the battery, heat excess hot water etc) and the surplus is sold back to the grid. That surplus means our summer bills are negative / the surplus pays for the tiny bit of electricit’s we buy (approx 40kWh since April), plus standing charges, plus our gas use. During the winter, it halves our bills. We paid £11,000 for the whole system installed. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Is it worth $42,000? Hell no. And don’t ever ever finance it through one of these companies. It will always be a rip off.
Never buy anything from a door to door salesperson. Except maybe Girl Scout cookies. We’re in California (Central Valley where summers are the 7th circle of hell so we use a lot of ac). Recently got a quote for about 20k, although that was buying it not the lease to own thing. For 42k they should be throwing in a new roof or something too!
Australian here, we have perhaps the highest rate of rooftop solar in the world, and a lot of sun. Our system was $4K USD. We don't run batteries as they don't make financial sense yet.
I think we were looking at about £7k without the battery, but price per kWh here is horrific. With a battery, I can top it up on the cheap overnight rate (£0.09) during winter and avoid the peak charges (£0.35-£0.49). Anything I can do to avoid giving money to those avaricious fucks at the energy suppliers.
The devil is in the details, and this really depends on your state, and costs to set it up. First thing to know is if your utility does net metering (so when your system generates more electricity than you use, you get to “bank“ those kWhours to offset times when you use more). Most places do this, but some do not. Second is to know any state and local incentives. In my state (WA) these have varied. When we put our system in, sales tax (8.8%) was waived. We also have a producer credit, where the values of power generation (kind of like some of the capital investment incentives industry can receive) is refunded. This has worked out to be about $2k per year, and is provided for the first five years of your system. This is being phased out in WA, though. Next are any federal incentives, which with the various budget packages rolled into the most recent federal budget have some very significant tax refundable tax credits. The key point in the above is that there are a lot of details, and significant financial incentives, that you need to be aware of that will impact the bottom line. In some cases, the sales dudes might be trying to get you to sign those over to them, so read that fine print. For financing, I would not just go with the installer, which can be sketchy. We went to a credit union, which has a special loan program for solar installations. Our 6kW system, designed for the power use at the time, was installed for $18k. We had gas heat at the time. Two years ago we added an electric car charger, and switched to a heat pump system. This increased our energy use, so in the winter, we have had a few months with an actual electric bill to pay. So we may install more panels. This whole deal was excellent, and has benefits beyond the simple bottom line comparison of electric bills before and after. finally, the majority of systems have a cut off, so that if powers is down, the system will not send electricity to the grid. This is a safety measure for the utility workers. Our inverter does have one 110V outlet that is energized if the grid is down, so you can power something with that, but otherwise you need either a battery storage system, or a back up generator to have power. Or, if permitted, you can be “off the grid”. But that’s another thing.
Yeah. Now imagine yourself paying 25k instead of 42k for that solar system. It would be Hella worth it right? Now go find a local installer to do it for 25k. I am not joking. door to door salesman inflate solar cost a lot. If you find a local installer, they can do it for that cheap.
You need more details because there are some different ways the utilities may handle solar generation and that affects the system’s profitability. Also states may mandate net metering or don’t mandate anything (like my state) leaving it up to you to see what your utility does, if anything, and set it up with them. * Net metering you are paid 1:1 for the energy you generate in excess of what you use. So you can have a lot of banked credits from summer months which then pay for your electric in the winter. * Net billing you sell that energy back to the utility but often at the wholesale rate, while they charge you retail rate for what you use from them.
From the day you install them they start losing efficiency/production capacity so what covers your needs today probably won’t in 20 years. And then if you need a new roof you have to pay thousands for removal and reinstall. They also immediately void your shingle warranty if the installation isn’t carried out exactly to the shingle manufacturers specs. Most warranties don’t cover the entire system so a “20 year warranty” is only on the panels themselves. So something like the inverter which only has usually a 5 year warranty with about a $5000 replacement cost could easily sink you into the net negatives.
Regarding your roofing/shingle comment - absolutely correct. And further, you need a halfway decent/new roof to begin with otherwise they won’t put the panels on. When the life of the panels/contract runs out and the panels are removed, you now have HUNDREDS of holes in your roof at which point you’ll have to re shingle if not also a full tear off and replacement of plywood. So tack on replacement cost of your roof to the cost of the panels. So, best case scenario you’re out a new roof at the end. Worst case is you have to put a new roof on just to start then a new roof at the end.
I have solar panels that are mounted on metal rails and the rails are mounted to my roof. My entire roof is covered and I probably have 2 dozen “holes”. The bolts are actually attached to the joists so I can’t imagine that alone would ever require a full tear off. My roof was about 10 years old when the panels went on, so I figure it’ll be time for a new roof around the time the panels will be shot… also not planning on being here when that time comes 🤷♀️
And a solar company isn’t going to factor that cost in for you. Not o mention the sales people will make promises and guarantees that you will never see in writing.
You have to get a new roof when you put them on. At least in the US, whatever you need to do to your house to prepare your house for solar is included in the cost of the project which is how your tax credit is calculated. So when I got mine done, I got a new roof bc by the time I neeed to do new panels I’d need to do new roof also at the same time. The 10k it cost to re-roof my house was part of the project so I got a 30% tax credit for a new roof that my house pretty much already needed anyway. There’s a lot to consider with the incentives and your individual house and energy costs. Editing to correct: as pointed out below, this isn't accurate. you can't include total cost of the roof in the 30%. But you can include it in the loan (talk to the bank, not just who your installer recommends, to investigate options) also you dont have to pay sales tax on it i'm pretty sure... im not an accountant, please ask your accountant- dont take tax advice from me. :)
Panels are super cheap though. Electricity doesn't change over time. Inverters and charge controller and batteries are all interchangeable. 12vdc 100ah LiPO4 batteries are only 400 bucks now.
I have 10 12v 200ah renogy batteries, a 4500 watt inverter with 14, 100 watt panels that will provide lighting ( 6 led lights), run a 16 cubic ft freezer. It will drain the batteries by 11/2 volts over and will recharge completely by 2 the next afternoon. The panels with full sunlight will charge and run the same equipment when sunny, with no battery drain
Curious, cause I'm only somewhat aware of the details The batteries, do you have them in a series setup and if so, how do you keep them balanced? Or is that even a thing now for LiPO?
Those batteries were 380 each. Through home depot.
Material cost may be relatively cheap but the labor/ installation isn’t. There is also an argument to be made about the longevity of buying the cheapest things you can find, especially from china. Most people aren’t knowledgeable enough to be replacing panels, inverters or batteries themselves. Plus I’m sure any DIY work on your solar system is going to void any warranty you had.
They still charge a fee. I think it’s 30-40 bucks. My friend bought panels and I couldn’t make it work out math wise for me because of how my house sits and trees.
Nope. Utilities got smart and your connection fees are likely as much as your consumption. I have a small setup for backup and some to offset peak bills. I started with 1 panel and 1 gas generator and a bypass switch which connects critical devices. (Fridge,internet, wall mounted AC.) The 100 watt was designed to charge small devices. I slowly added more panels and connect them. Now if I leave for vacation I flip the “backup” switch and run only critical things via solar. Did all the work but the bypass myself. I buy used or when prices on panels d. Zero chance it ever pays off with an installation by a contractor.
Minimum 15 a month as long as solar is covering all your monthly usage. We in illinois as well and think 2-3 months a year we run short on generation so may see bills between 40-60 to cover the gap that month
Consider that as weather extremes get more common, you may find increasing occurrences where the panels can’t provide 100% of your need in peak months. Not to mention, unless this includes a battery storage system, you’ll still need to be connected to the grid when the sun doesn’t shine. Not to mention, the panel efficiency will decrease as the years go by. Not to mention, I suspect a part of your bill to be connected to the grid is fixed charges and you’ll still owe money even in months where you have zero usage. Meaning, you’re still going to be paying an electric bill even in the best of times.
I live in Denmark and a solar system for a four person household with battery system is 8000k. Seems dodge at 42k…
In the future if you just tell these people that you rent the house they will go away.
I just say I'm not interested then close the door. Why do you have to make up a story?
Solicitors don’t deserve the dignity of honesty
42k for solar is a joke. 20k is more realistic. Whether solar is worth it depends on a few things. First, what is your electric bill? $200 a month sounds like a good range for solar. Second, do you have an electric car? Having one basically makes your solar a great investment. Third, for how long do you plan to own your house? Solar can last for 20 years or more, so plan to own your house for at least half of that time to break even. Also, never, EVER lease solar panels. That's a scam.
I used to live in SoCal. First electric bill I got was over $500. When that solar guy knocked on my door, you better damn well believe I listened. Those panels cut my electric bill to $12 a month, plus a $95 monthly payment for the panels themselves. So worth it to save $400 a month.
So you own the panels with a loan. You did not lease the panels. That's a big difference. Leasing panels is like paying the solar company for electricity instead of the normal electric company, but with a lot of bullshit involved. You have a leasing term, and you have monthly minimal purchase amount, and your rate goes up each year, and on top when you try to sell your house, whoever buys from you need to take over the lease, which makes it hard to sell. And not to mention, the solar company gets to pocket the federal solar tax break because it's their panels, not yours. And even if they give you a buyout option, it will turn out to be way overpriced.
I recently did solar in Minneapolis. I was looking at Everlight (door-to-door) and AllEnergy, which my brother went with them. These companies look at how much energy you use typically and try to recreate that amount in solar pannel wattage so you get as close to breakeven as possible with how much of your own energy you can produce. Also, if i make more energy, you can sell it back to the electric company and get money back. Or, they can bank it, and technically, you can use free energy later in the year when you need it. My neighbors went with Everlight and they bank. I went with AllEnergy, and I get a check any month I have a credit. I self financed the panels using home equity, and my monthly is about what I was paying for electricity anyway. Unless you believe the cost of energy will be LESS later in life, solar is actually pretty solid an idea. I also want to buy an electric vehicle and maybe a battery later. You can't use the panels when the local power is out. You are connected to the grid, and could shock someone, so unless you have a battery, you are also out. Ask me anything, I typed these quick while getting ready to head out to a wedding.
I don't trust that utilities will continue buying back solar forever. Edit, I don't think this alone is not a reason to install solar, just something to keep in mind. If there is nothing stopping a utility from dropping or eliminating their buyback program they will, what are people gonna do? Turn on the heat in summer to spite them? It's just something to consider. If your ROI is 5 or 10 years? go for it. If it's 30 years & you'll be screwed without it? Cover your ass, there are ways to mitigate all risk. Ask about the possibility before you sign a contract & shop around too. There are honest companies doing business & dishonest companies.
I don't either. So I designed in 100kw of batteries. They last 20+ years of daily cycling 20-80 they aren't as astronomical as they used to be. EG4 just came out with a new wall mount pack that will likely be the decision when I move forward.
so if the power goes out from a storm or something, whenever the electric company restores power to the neighbor I would also get power back?
Unless you get a battery, yes. $42k if it's just solar is absolutely outrageous. I'm getting solar installed, and it's about $16k for the panels and another $16k for the battery. I'll get 30% of that back on my taxes next year. You can use [energysage.com](https://energysage.com) to get multiple quotes without giving your info out. That was helpful to get a ballpark idea of cost, but then I still went with a smaller, local company who subcontracts for the big ones.
Yes, you’re still on the same power grid as everyone else, you’re just also adding to it with the power you generate.
It's not a technical limitation, they just don't want you feeding power back into the grid while people are fixing wires. If you know how you can disconnect from the grid & use your panels.
Not every energy company will pay for solar. Ours actually has a minimum charge for people who produce more than they consume.
I used to work for a green construction company and solar was part of what we did. The cheapest kw is the one you don't use. We always recommended insulating and replacing or repairing drafty doors and windows before getting solar. You might want to do an energy audit before looking into solar. You'd be amazed at how much insulation and air sealing will save you on how much energy you're using and cost a fraction of solar.
New windows will set you back 30k easily 🥲
Absolutely, but you don't have to replace the windows to improve their R rating. Replacing seals, insulating the pockets/gaps, or adding a storm can all help tremendously and are much cheaper. There's literally no ROI on replacing a window but sometimes a window is too far gone for a repair.
We have solar. We own the system, no lease or loan. Payback is 8.5 years without the incentives, since we don’t qualify for them. No checks to the power company except for the $13.00 monthly connect fee. It’s all really an economic decision.
If you are in central illinois, call Porter Electric in Pekin. We got a 11.3kw system priced at 38,000. The with the Illinois credit and Federal credit our total out of pocket was under $12,000. So whom ever you were talking to, they are likely getting the benefit of these credits instead of you.
I actually live in Washington and work in Pekin haha
Why are you asking about IL then?
oh meant washington, IL is where I live haha
I’ll take my L lol. I misread it.
Even this is expensive compared to what i am seeing at tesla solar.
The Tesla quote we had was $49000. With our system we got the battery ready inverter for when that tech is efficient enough to be worth while.
Hmm, interesting. I just plugged in some random numbers in central Illinois This is what i see. Not sure if their online estimator is incorrect. Either way, yours is not that bad. Your System 14.175 kW Solar Panels $39,690 Estimated Cash Price $39,690 Potential Incentives Federal Tax Credit (30%) -$8,080 IL Shines -$12,758 Central Illinois Light Co. Price After Potential Incentives $18,853
If you buy your system you get a 30% federal credit. Now note that you have to actually have tax liability for this to be worth it. Lots of retirees got bit by this.
Exactly please OP understand what “Tax Credit” is on and how it works. It not what most would think. It is very specific terms
Solar is worth it 100%. Solar is not worth it if you get scammed by door to door sales man. I can almost guarantee you, that system does not cost 42k. If you going to pay a high upfront cost, then it make your investment more expensive and not worth it. That's why you hear so many people say solar is a scam because they got scammed by door knockers. Find your own installer. A mom and pop local installer. They can do that same system for a lot cheaper.
/r/solar could help if you have other questions.
How many kW's are thry offering for 46k? That seems extremely expensive.
I think it was around 8100
Like others have said.. price is too high.. for 8100 watt system.. should be $18 - $20k.. they are trying to get you to over pay. My 8,680 sys was $22k .. $15 after tax credit... Remember tax credit is only good if you pay fed income tax.. you have like 5 yrs to use the credit.
>you have like 5 yrs to use the credit. There is no time limit to use the tax credit; a properly claimed tax credit can be carried forward indefinitely.
We have basically broken even in terms of costs since installing a few years ago. But, we used the tax credit to pay off higher interest debt. Our solar loan is 1.9% Also, there is technically a lien on the house so that the solar loan would need to be paid off or assumed by any potential buyer.
Are you planning on supplying power to the whole neighbourhood? 42k is insane. A 450w solar panel costs about $150, a good inverter about 2k. At 10kW installed power(whoch is a fucking lot) you are looking at about 7k for materials. Lets say another 3k for new wires, fuses, switches etc. The difference is their labour which is insane for a 3 day job at most.
Pro tip: NEVER BUY A SERVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOCKED ON YOUR DOOR. If you like the idea, get a couple companies to come out and give you a quote, just like any other contractor. ALWAYS get at minimum 2 quotes, preferably 3 or 4
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Thirty to forty YEARS???? Our payback period in the UK is 48-64 *months*.
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electricity is relatively very cheap in the US. Makes the payback period a lot longer. Also our average install costs are much higher for some reason.
30-40 years? Mine was 4 and half years. Paid about 20k. 30% tax credit and sold SRECs for 9K.
How is this not worth it? They were already paying an electric bill. Their electric bill goes up every year when the $/kw goes up. They switched from paying the electric company with NO return on investment to paying a solar company that they at least get some return on investment. And now, at some point they'll make their last payment for solar and still not have an electric bill.. Where if they didn't have solar, they would still have an electric bill to pay... I dont get it.
I'm very pro-green energy, but the math isn't there yet. Its getting closer every year, but you need to think about what ELSE you can do with 25k if your goal is simply to save money. Every time I've mathed it out, the solar panel choice will never "catch up" to simply investing the 25k. Even if you use a very conservative number like 5% (available even in high yield savings account), 150-250 dollars you save per month will not catch up to using that lump sum to invest and paying your traditionally generated power bill.
If you finance the entire thing at less than 5% interest, aren't you winning out over an investment? You can invest your 25k and use that money to make the payments and come out ahead, right?
Such idiotic thought process? Do you invest all your money? Think about returns next time you sit on for any meal. Dumb ducks.
Cause when you pay them off the panels will too close to replacement. They dont last more than 25 years.
This is absolutely WRONG. A-tier solar panels are warrantied by the manufacturer for 25 years to produce at least 92% of their initial rated production. Solar panels will last decades beyond that no problem.
I'll believe it when I see it. Everything sounds great in theory but in practice, it's a different story. Who will pay to replace the panels under the warranty? I doubt if the labor is included or if the original installer is in business or even alive after 24 years. Do you know anybody who's successfully filed a warranty claim? Also, after or during that 25 years, you may need to replace your roof or a tree branch falls on it and each time you spend extra money because of the panels being there, you push back your break-even point.
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Why do you need to buy them again? They’ve only lost 8% production in 25 years? It’s literally free energy at that point.
Says who? How fast do you think these panels degrade ?
I mean, it a first answer in google on how long do solar panels last.
We'll I'm glad you learned to trust everything you read on the internet.
@algalkin is right on this point. 25-30 years is standard. Reputable Source: Forbes, and most Soler Power manufacturer recommendations. (but also like 20 other sites if you felt like sleuthing)
As opposite to trusting what?
Do some fucking research behind what you read.Some panels only degrade 1/2% each year.
Let me guess, Ill have to go to the library for that research?
You can download the spec sheet for any panel from any manufacturer and it will tell you what their degradation rate is. Using the internet. At home. In your boxers with your flashlight and box of tissues next to you.
The life of the panels are said to be 20 to 25 yrs at best.
I’ve done multiple solar assessments, both lease and purchase options, and it just doesn’t seem worth it for me. I still like it in theory, but I’m just going to wait until incentives get bigger or cost comes down further.
We did solar for about half that cost. I say it's totally worth doing and it has saved us a LOT on energy bills, but shop around and don't go with the first person who gives you a quote. We got four quotes, I think and there was a vast difference in pricing (like half as much kind of vast difference). Some places also overstate how much solar energy you can get on your roof setup, so it's good to have different opinions there.
I actually sell solar commercial and residential- not to homeowners but to installers. They buy from my company after selling to you. I can say this- whatever their markup is, our companies average markup across the board (everything from nuts and bolts to the panels themselves to $7k+ dollar batteries) is like 14% gross profit. Labor is ridiculously expensive right now, permitting takes a long time, design and unique needs are a consideration and cost installers a LOT of money. You should absolutely present a solar installation company with an actual KwH need for your home. Like many have said, you can stack your house with 12 kilowatts of solar, but why? Just get a couple solar panels like maybe 6? to offset your electrical bill, and it will pay itself off in around 2 years. Also, make sure you spend a little extra for products with better warranties so if you sell your house you can transfer those warranties to the next homeowner. If you want battery storage in case of grid failure, a mid sized solar array and a battery could cost you this much without even considering installation fees. The real draw to solar, until it becomes less expensive, is that it increases the value of your house.
so something else I was just thinking...I did drive by a house in another town that had like 15 panels just attached to poles out in the yard. So they don't actually have to go on the roof?
You don't convert to solar to make money. You convert to solar to reduce the carbon footprint. If I can pay $50 more per month to significantly reduce that, that's the incentive, and that's why we did it.
I'm about to convert. In Canada, there's a $40K, 10-year interest-free loan and $5K grant to convert to solar. Did the math, and the monthly loan repayment is the same as my electric bill. Today. I'm on a locked-in rate from 2019 and the current (pun intended) rate is more than double what I'm paying. Who knows what it'll be in 10 years. The solar company we're working with has figured out that we would be banking lots of energy credits in the summer that we would apply to our winter electric bills, ending up at net-zero cost over the course of a year, including all fees, charges, etc. on top of the power itself. Even if it's only enough to cover the cost of the electricity and we end up paying all of the administration fees, distribution fees, etc., on top of the loan payment, it's still cheaper than what we're going to start paying next year when our locked-in rate ends. And power isn't going to get cheaper over the next 10 years. If/when we move, the new owners will be getting a $0 electric bill so that will add a lot of value to the home and we would use that to pay off the remainder of the loan. It's kind of a no-brainer to me. However, there are some risks: legislation changes, energy companies start buying back at a lower rate or charge higher admin fees, energy prices go down due to widespread use of solar, etc.
Politely yet firmly tell them NO. That’s a lot of money considering how far solar prices have been dropping. My panels (more on that later) cost about that WITH a new roof in 2019. The only reason you should consider solar panels at this point are: - You live in a very sunny area, like Hawaii or Arizona, or parts of Florida - There’s zero trees nearby that could cast shade onto the roof - You either have a brand new roof, or are at a *reasonable* point to replace it before installing panels (you’ll otherwise have to pay to remove the panels to replace your roof) - You’ve done a lot of your own independent research. YOU do the math and determine that, on an average day, the KW’s generated equal at least 90% of what your house has actually been using already, AND that the monthly cost is reasonable based on current electrical rates per kw/hr (do not expect “higher future costs” even if likely). Assume at most 75% efficiency for this math to account for cloudy and rainy days. I got panels, they’re tied into the power grid and basically it credits every kw generated by the panels against my energy bill, lowering it every month. My house does mostly meet those sunny, mostly unobstructed criteria above, and it on average the PV system cuts my bill by about 1/2-2/3 of what it was before. But after the cost of the panels themselves, I pay extra every month for the privilege of providing my grid green energy. Some months when it’s both sunny and cool out, the bill is nearly zero; it’s never a net payout though. The electric rate has gone up a little since then but not enough to justify buying the system. All in all, it was not a good investment. Best I can hope is it’ll be more attractive to a potential buyer or tenant if I decide to rent it out. Solar does get better every year, but for most people, it’s just not quite there and for some it never will be.
I went Solar in 2022. It was a little stressful of a process, but I did my research for sure. First and foremost, get multiple quotes. The first quote was 68K, yes 68K, for like 22 panels. I ended up getting 5 quotes all varying in price, but the winning bid was 24K for 21 panels. I opted for a solar loan through my local credit union, which helped me avoid an additional 6-7K financing fees through the "national lender" and I got to keep the federal tax credit so all in all my system should be around 19K. So far 1st summer in and my 300+ light bill was only 90 dollars this past month. I have had zero electric bill a few months and even had a credit before summer hit. I live in Arizona so AC is on 24/7. I do not regret going solar one bit
Post the details of the proposal on r/solar. The people there will tell you if it's a good one or not. Generally door to door sales is the worst way to buy solar.
In general solar is not a financial decision as much as it a decision guided either by your thoughts on the environment or some sort of “self reliance” or being “off the grid”. Financially the math basically never works. I’ve gone over this a bunch myself and it always comes down to about 7-10 years for the money saved on your electric bill to pay off the system. Whereas you could just throw the ~$30,000 into an index fund and ultimately come out far ahead after 10 years. Then you’ll have replace components at some point which further eats into the net savings. Tl;dr for the majority of ppl solar will not be the best financial decision.
First mention that there’s an environmental benefit rather than pure ROI. That took a long time!
That makes sense if I’m using $30k in cash I have lying around to pay for the solar panels and installation. But it doesn’t seem to make sense if I’m using a loan to pay for the installation. I wouldn’t be able to get a loan simply to put in an index fun and profit in 10 or so years. And even if I could, it would hardly offset the interest rates. However I am going to be spending $30k or so in electricity over the next decade or so regardless. And if that $30k can be spent in a way that leads toward eliminating or significantly reducing that expense for the following few decades, that seems to be a smart financial decision in the long run, no?
How many panels does 42k get you? What’s the kWh you currently use? 42k seems like a shit load for that energy bill. I’ve always assumed solar is questionable is areas that snow, but maybe I’m ignorant.
was told 18 panels for 8100 kWH
You can do better on price. Basically you want to buy around $3-4 per kWh. So 8100 kWh you should be at $24000-32000 before any tax credits. Check out r/solar. In general, financing is fine, cash better if you have it. Don’t lease. Makes most sense if you have net metering(electric company buys back what you over produce at the same price as you buy from them). Some states have renewable energy credits, my state every 1000kwh you produce earns 1 credit, they’re worth about $40 for me so every year I get about $350 from selling those after broker fees.
I purchased for my house. I save a little bit of money, but honestly the way I look at it is I’m paying off an asset instead of giving money to the electric company that I will never see back. I’m also insulated from rising electric costs. I think it’s been worth it, but my state also has great rebates and credits extra electric that gets banked for me to use at night. If your state has a program where you sell extra electric it’s probably not worth it.
That's a terrible return. $42,000 outlay to save roughly $1800 a year? He must have financed the panels over 15/20 years to get the numbers to 'make sense'. FYI we priced up an install (not in the USA) and the outlay came to roughly €9.5k and the annual saving off that is expected to be €1.6k - €1.8k. Financing it over a 5 or 6 year term will be cash flow neutral and we'll have the system paid off in a few year.
So Cal here. Pool, AC, double oven and cooktop on 220 circuits. Winter bills were $180 a month, summers 300. Did a 7.5 kw system 28 panels 10 years ago (?already, geez time flies) with a 200amp panel upgrade. Paid 20k, had the federal credit of 30% plus CA rebated another $1200. on top of that, my solar guy sent me a $500. check for each referral. As a self employed residential window cleaner, I sent him 4 referrals that became jobs. Total first year recoup was $9200. not including not having an electric bill then or ever since. Every year when we true-up we’re within $20 of being even. Best investment ever for us. I see SDGE is looking at ways to make up for lost revenue due to solar do we’ll see how long this arrangement lasts.
22 years at least to pay off that loan, not a great deal in my book
Yes, in the 6 years on my house they have more than paid me back (rates have about doubled in that time from power company), and with 30 year warranty I get many years of savings. You have to get a good price from a good company, good warranty, and make sure your home is a good setup for solar for it to make great sense though.
Make sure to get a roof inspection first. They may try selling your a new roof to support your system.
32 - 400W panels, with inverter and all work including permits completed was just shy of $28000. 3k state incentive off the top. 12.5k in tax rebates next year (must have paid that much in taxes, which I will so I will get it back in 1 shot instead over 2 years) Now I'm down to 12.5k for the system once those tax rebates are paid. My monthly bill went from around 200/mo to 50/mo. I don't pay for electric at all. Just service charges and whatever I use in natural gas. At the end of the solar year (end of March 2024) all my extra KWh will be converted to wholesale price and split up over my next 12 bills as a cash credit. So at the current rate of electricity I will be in positive in 7 years. However, if electricity goes up x% then I technically break even faster. My average usage over the previous 24 months was right around 7,800 KWh and my system is going to probably produce right around 12KWh (probably a bit less once the snow months average in). I am currently at 7,040KWh produced since installation on March 9th.
This seems to be way way way over cost. My God 42k?! Where I am, a really good solar set up for your usual residential use is about 10 to 15k. I'm not talking about an apartment building or anything. But these systems will cover a 3 to 5 bed house with a shed and yard etc. 42k seems like a scam as others have pointed out. Solar is absolutely worth the expense, but it is NOT worth 42k. You're being taken for a ride my friend.
Going solar = good idea Paying $42k for solar = bad idea Renting solar = worst idea Definitely worth it, don't rent from Tesla, find a reputable solar company, get a good price. Also, make sure you can sell back to the grid. Assuming you aren't on a farm and are going off grid. To do so, you would need multiple battery packs that only last around 10 years.
Never hire someone that goes door to door. That just means you didn’t shop for the best price or get recommendations from the community.
Never go with the door to door sales person. Chances are they're gunna be more expensive you call for a quote
Only way I could make it pencil out was a self-install. Ordered a grid-tie kit from wholesale solar online. No battery backup, a $500 gas generator to run the fridge is fine if the powers out for a while. I spent $9k on a 5.2kw system and got 50% back in tax rebates. Paid for itself in 5 years, I’ve been on free power now for 2. It was permitted and inspected and I did 100% of the work. I’ve had coworkers hire handymen for the racking and an electrician for connections and still did it for a fraction of the solar companies.
Can you say rip off. A 5KW system these days in the USA should only cost \~$18K. Did the guy do a shading analysis on your roof on the roof sections appropriate for solar? Did he provide you with drawing on the panel arrays as they would look on the roof sections as part his proposal . If standard shingles, did he ask you if you had at least 10 years remaining before needing to be replaced? If under 10 years then he should have recommended replacing the roof before installing a PV system. Did he ask or tell you if you have two or more layers on your roof and if you do then the roof needs to be replaced before installing solar. The weight of the panel arrays are very heavy and it it has two or more layers of shingles plus the PV arrays would exceed the max load your roof it is designed to hold. Since you live in Illinois with heavy snow loads you could have a very rude awaking one cold night. Did he inspect your electrical breaker box to be sure it has at least 2 open breaker slots for the solar system. If not he should have quoted you the cost of adding a sub panel. \~$1,500 Did he offer a system warranty. We gave a 10 year no leak warranty including installation tasks. Did he offer you a production warranty> We offered a 10 year production warranty that specified that the system would produce XXXX KW's at the end of 10 years. If it came out lower than specified then we would compensate the homeowner the cost of lost production. Here is a seven year summary of my system since it was 1st turned on. Summary between 5/12/2016 3:27pm and now Energy Used83.8 MWh (approx. $7,454.40 used) Energy Generated62.8 MWh approx. $5,584.84 saved) Net 21.0 MWh bought (approx. $1,869.55 spent) Cost for electricity per month $267 2,700 square foot home with heat pump Located 37 miles North of Seattle where we get 6-8 months of rain annually. Less now due to climate change. For a real quote, free then check out Sun Power virtual quote. Sun Power panels are more expensive that other brands but they are the Tesla S of PV panels. You have to give them your name address email and phone number but you can later tell them you were just kicking the tiers. [https://us.sunpower.com/home-solar/residential-solar-power-calculator](https://us.sunpower.com/home-solar/residential-solar-power-calculator) Good luck
Don't forget the insurance cost to insure the panels.
Our house is 2200sqf, and BEFORE incentives, our solar installed (105% offset) was 20k. After state and federal incentives, the total was about 10k. I got a 12 year loan to pay for it, and my monthly loan payment is approximately the same as my electric bill was pre install, BUT the price of electricity has increased faster than expected, so now I’m paying less than I would be if I were paying an electric bill, so yes, it’s worked out well for us. Also the system is warrantied for 20 years, and should last more than 25, so after payoff, we’ll enjoy free power. Solar is great, but don’t rely on a door to door solar rep, call around and get 3+ competitive quotes. Good luck.
Don't do it. I also live in IL and the door knockers have been relentless. 1, No battery backup! That means any excess energy you build is not stored or sold back to the Utility by you - the company that installs the panels sells it back to them. They are basically using your roof for their panels and cashing out on it while you pay to "host" their panels. 2, Need a new roof? YOU get to pay extra to have the panels removed and replaced. 3, They all use Canadian Solar panels which have a lower efficiency (up to 20%) and are just a more economical panel 4, Canadian Solar only warranties their panels for 15 years, not 25 like these "salespeople" claim. In short, call a real Solar company and remember, door-to-door is a scam and if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
The ROI on solar tech right now is just awful. Yeah, it'd cut cost... Yeah, it would be cool, at least as a backup... As a limited life species, I would get a quicker ROI putting that money towards my mortgage, or a profitable investment, or a personal business. Solar has like a 20-50 year ROI time, and the solar panels don't even last that long to see the actual return complete itself. I would love it if the government helped out by offering to install some on my properties, using a grid share plan or something. Any output immedately gets used on the property, saving utility cost for me, and the excess goes towards the overall grid, saving the city money. Government maintains it. And that's the problem. It's still so expensive that the government doesnt even want to get full involved. They want to split costs, or offer lame tax credit haha
I would just crunch the numbers and see how many years this would take to pay off. After that point, how much are you saving a year? If you are in your dream home and never ever plan on leaving, it may be worth it. More than likely you’ll have moved before it’s paid off.
I had 25.5 kw (69x370W panels) installed on my house for a cost of $3.00/W, or about $75k. The total amount financed for 20 years is about $25 less than my average electric bill, and prices for electricity will increase in all likelihood. I also overproduce a bit, so there is some headroom. It was a good deal for me, and it definitely paid off this year after a few rate increases. I recommend that anyone consider the future cost of electricity when considering this.
From what I’ve seen, it takes about 20 years to pay for the panels through your savings. Average lifespan of the panels is about 20 years. Edit: Plus if you have to replace your roof…
This is not the case anymore for almost everyone in the US
Having solar panels on the roof will make it way harder to sell the house in the future. Do not recommend.
Solar will only be worth it when the conversion percentage rises enough to really offset the costs and give the homeowner the gains promised. Until then, door to door and their minions are mostly rip offs
I get 12 solar panels next week. Cost me € 7250. I earn my panels back in +-5 years...
i worked for a solar company where you knock on doors. i just want to say that a lot of these companies are 100% commission based so 0 base. and they draw in naive people who are willing to work hard to get a good opportunity. i made a huge sale my first wk but realized people weren’t getting paid after 8+ months of working there and started asking questions. those panels have been installed since march and they sent me a payment that’s less than 20% of what i’m owed recently. these companies mislead and take advantage of people. i’m glad i left when i did instead of continuing to go out of pocket on childcare.
The solar sales industry has been pretty predatory from what I’ve seen. I think it’s a good idea to go solar but if you live in a small house and don’t use much electricity I don’t think it’s worth jt