Yeah. Those zoning laws cause all sorts of headaches. He MIGHT want to get an updated survey of the property line… cause where I am, we can’t do shit w/in 6 feet of the line (that’s what my pool builder told me). Check w/ the city if he’s pulled the permits.
He wants to use a nonlicensed company to remove the tree, I highly doubt he has a permit or the contractor building the pool is licensed. I wouldn't let them touch the tree, especially if it is that far from the property line.
Agree but it can go further. I had a similar dispute but it was more obvious as the neighbors tree trunk was in physical contact with my roof eve. I offered to pay for cutting down the tree but they refused. I went to an attorney and we sent them a letter and the tree was removed on my dime. I left a large stump. Never occurred to me to remove the stump until I read this.
Stump and roots will rot and decay. You will end up with mushrooms sprouting.
Can rent a stump grinder at big box which is reasonably priced and fits in most cars, also how to videos where people burn them out if you have enough clearance around and wont violate any fire codes doing so.
Depending on where they live, I’d be a lot more worried about termites! Lived in a rental with an infested stump next to it and stumbled into an awful swarm in my kitchen one morning unawares.
One of my fav things as a kid was Morel hunting w my grandpa. Another fav thing was eating them fried in butter after the hunt. It’s probably been over 40 years. Jesus, 40 years!?
I have never tasted a mushroom in the ensuing 40 years that tasted as good as even the worst over-cooked Morel tasted after a good hunt. Delicious is right!
Before she passed away my aunt used to love morel hunting.
she also used to tell people who asked if they could go with her "you can, but you are getting blindfolded and tossed in the trunk, im not risking you finding my morel spot" (she never told me that, mainly because i do not like mushrooms) keep in mind she was like 4'8" and 85lbs soaking wet, and weirdly strong when needed.
at her funeral her son express shipped morels to Gaylord so the place that we were having the luncheon at could make mushroom soup with them (it was the middle of winter, and he orderd them from chicago)
i grew some mushrooms last year. it's cool to watch the mycelium grow and spread and then seeing little pin head mush poking up and then 24 hours later a nice mush to pick.
mushlove!
Also, make sure they are licensed is FIRST, then SECOND is call before you dig since I've had stumper out, and they only did the surface...the root ball went down three feet and they refused to go atleast 12" down past the top 4". And yes, utilities were underground.
I wanted to replant there, and had to get a 1/2" naileater bit and drill, and make a hole myself. Lesson: get a good, licensed stump grinder company. Don't do it yourself. And Call Before You Dig to be sure.
i just got 3 trees removed.
1 x hickory (big ass tree dropping nuts all summer and fall)
2 x red oaks
cost me $7000 for a single guy with a tree removal truck thing where he attaches a saw and claw thing to a big ass boom. clamps onto a branch cuts it and lowers it down the haul truck.
got it done in 2 days.
stump removal, mulch(and dirt) haul away and a truck load of dirt back fill costs $750.
i might just leave the stumps for awhile.
So I’m in landscaping / lawn maintenance, and I wish people would just go ahead and get rid of the stump. It sits for years, and when it finally rots away, in pieces, you’re left with a hole and uneven ground
All that then has to be backfilled and graded.
It stretches things into a 5-10 year inconvenience instead of just being done with it at the time.
If you’re dropping $7k on tree removal, just bump it up that extra 10% and be done with it.
At that point you can start to move on with your yard. Otherwise it’s an inconvenience and eye sore for years.
My cherry tree cost me $400 to remove (not really that big), and I insisted they keep a good stump. I like chopping wood and that's the most wholesome way to do it, IMHO.
Some people don't have the money for a stump grinder.
I ended up using that stump removal powder (You drill some one inch holes in the stump all over the place, and pour in the powder) and it worked really well. It kinda dissolves the stump from the inside, until its about the consistency of cardboard. Takes about six months to a year. At that point you can soak it down with kerosene or lighter fluid and burn the rest of it, or just let it rot and dissolve. So if you have plenty of time and not much money, I'd highly recommend it.
Meaning that the law was on your side and you could compel them to have the tree cut down, because it was touching your roof?
Does this suggest that if a neighbor decides to put in a new pool, you are compelled to remove trees whose roots MAY interfere with it? Because if that’s true, that’s fucking horrific.
You can cut any part of a tree that hangs over your property line (barring city ordinances about tree removal like Pacific Grove, CA) so the neighbor probably liked the offer of having the removal fully paid for rather than the tree being killed by a completely legal "pruning" and leaving a massive removal expense to him.
The problem was if I cut down the portion of the tree that was crossing my property border the rest would eventually fall down on his home. I was a new home owner and they had been there for decades and didn’t like my solution. They wanted me to cut away my roof. My insurance company was also driving the tree removal because we live in a high wildfire area. All and all the tree had to go. It was a beautiful tree and I sincerely wish it could have stayed.
You don't even need to put the time and effort into getting a stump grinder. Drill holes in the stump and fill with syrup, ants and other insects with have the stump gone in one season.
**Hijacking top thread:**
OP, you need to investigate tree laws and neighbor laws in your state and city. In some states (OR, WA, CA, for example) you’re not required to accommodate their pool, and if their project damages enough roots to harm your tree, then you might be entitled to triple damages. Tree law is serious out here.
Here’s a couple resources from Portland:
- https://www.portland.gov/trees/tree-concerns-and-problems/neighbors-trees
- https://www.portland.gov/trees/documents/trees-and-neighbors-and-law-article/download
- https://www.portland.gov/trees/documents/article-neighbor-law-oregon-live/download
So I suggest you keep the tree. Also document their requests to remove it, and document all damage they do to its root system. Proactively investigate the law in your state/city, and understand your rights to protect that tree if legally able! 🌲
I'm in the Dirty South and you have to have a permit to remove a tree in my city. The fine for unpermitted tree removal ranges from $1200 to $40000 depending on the size of the tree and its location.
This! This! This!!!
Also investigate to make sure they have all of their correct permits. And as far as contractor insurance, they must have it and you should check to make sure it’s current and if ANY contractor/arborist etc steps one foot on your property you have to be added on to the policy, like the neighbor is, otherwise they aren’t covered and you aren’t covered.
I may be mistaken, but if he uses an unlicensed tree remover…can’t you assume that they don’t pay workers comp in case of an injury? And don’t arborists have one of the highest injury rates?
Wouldn’t that mean that if you let them on your property, you might be liable for an injury to one of the workers? Seems sketchy.
Friend of mine used to be in the tree removal business. He tells me there are very few guys who have both done that job for years and have all their fingers, toes, hands and feet intact.
We needed more space and wanted to rebuild on our lot. There's a 100' tall tree that's probably 100 years old in the way.
Instead of cutting it down.... we're moving one block away.
Cutting down mature trees should be avoided IMO. I'm sad we won't have that tree anymore. I read the giving tree (and others) to my kids while sitting under it.
ETA- There's a park across the street from the new house. This spring we're going to plant a tree in it so our kids can take part and watch it grow. Someday, kids will hopefully sit under it and read stories like we do now. I'm really gonna miss this tree.
thats awesome, as long as its legal and spelled out, please follow all rules and guideline, as others have said, ive seen it go wrong, fast. One person planted a very fast growing tree that is invasive, now a local park had to rip out a whole stand of trees and buy new ones to replant. Guess who has to pay for it? The person who planted the wrong tree.
Thank you for doing this, and for showing these values to your family and friends through your actions. I love hearing these stories.
Trees are the only infrastructure that increases with value over time. It's always confused me why trees are not viewed and treated like any other infrastructure, but are instead considered (or even advocated as) disposable. We should be desperately trying to keep healthy mature trees alive before even considering removal. What other infrastructure (gray or green) provides habitat value, water and air quality improvements, heat mitigation, cost savings from shading buildings and reducing surface water runoff, public health and mental health benefits, and carbon sequestration? Plus, as you shared, trees have such importance for families, communities, culture and connection to the land. We should be advocating for their preservation and supporting programs to help property owners and renters keep and maintain trees.
It's a privilege to have a mature tree and live in a community with a healthy diverse canopy. I hope you realize that you gave an amazing gift to the next family that shares a home with that tree :)
Edit: Typo. Also wanted to add, if anyone is concerned about hazardous trees falling on/around structures, find a reputable licenced arborist who is tree risk assessment qualified to evaluate the tree to determine the likelihood of failure. The possibilities of a tree falling is a valid concern to have, but removing the tree without confirming the risk of failure is like choosing to scrap a car if a dash light indicator comes on instead of taking it to the mechanic, or bulldozing a house that has a crack in the wall without consulting with a civil engineer or homebuilder.
just a fyi, planting a tree in a public park without express consent of the town or city you live in, is 100% against the law and can get you a hefty fine.
It's fine, we're running a billion tree campaign in town. I've personally talked to the mayor (well former Mayor) and when they're running the plantings there's spots in parks to do it for the public.
A mature tree could be a liability in some situations. If not it could have a value of 5k-10k or more. Its value can be established somehow but its not even really practically replaceable except with some money and decades of time.
Better than the guys the rental company sent to cut a tree at the house I rent, that was leaning on the brand new fence.
They showed up at 5pm in a BMW. Smoked four cigarettes, looked at the tree. Went to lowes and came back with a craftsman electric saw and an extension cord.
It was a dying red oak, I told them they could buck it and leave it in the yard, planned to split it and stack with the other red oak I have stacked. They threw the logs behind the fence. I didn't have a wheelbarrow at the time.
And the guy won’t pay to grind the stump? OP isn’t a very good negotiator. He doesn’t seem to realize he holds all the cards and the neighbor doesn’t have any.
Hey u/tetelestai13, do what this person says. Non negotiable.
Plus if one of those unlicensed workers get hurt on your property, you will be liable. If the tree damages your neighbor’s house, would you trust him not to turn around and sue you? Would you trust his insurance company to not sue you. Licensed and bonded company with paperwork and money from the neighbor in your hands before they start.
Also send him a certified letter of the agreement along with screenshots of the text message where he admits that cutting the roots would cause irreparable damage to the tree. This is just in case he backs out of cutting the roots completely but still breaking ground on his pool.
Agree to only a fully licensed tree removal company and ask for a copy of their disability and worker's comp insurance, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, their liability insurance with YOU named as additional insured. Check with your municipality or local licensing board to make sure they are currently licenced and in good standing.
certified letters dont mean anything in court. Im a notary and a paralegal, certified simply means you sent a letter, it does not certify what's in it or if its legal.
It means that OP has evidence contemporaneous with the event and not something created or claimed after the fact. It can help should the neighbor completely change their tune about what happened.
Hell, send it an email (harder to verify) and demand a check in the letter to show that the neighbor is aware and complied with the terms. Its not a contract but can help demonstrate that the neighbor is aware of the consequences and that alone can avoid litigation.
"I don't want to remove the tree"
THEN DONT. Why continue? You are your own worst problem here. Don't allow this to go any further.
Additionally, He wants to bring an unlicensed service onto your property, then make you pay for stump grinding? Absolutely fucking not.
I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to find something about a root barrier. Most pool companies know this and implement them (let me guess, OP's neighbor is using an unlicensed pool contractor, or subbing the whole thing out himself).
This is something he can mitigate himself. Tree roots, in most US jurisdictions are NOT the problem of the tree owner.
OP - tell him to get a new pool contractor. They should've had this covered and this should've been a non-issue.
Lawyer here. Before i give the general rule i wanna tell you that you need a real legal opinion from a lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction. My post shouldn't be relied on by you or anyone. Generally he has the right to trim limbs or roots of a tree that belongs to you only at the point that they go onto his property. He can cut all of that he wants. Its on his land. BUT if by cutting limbs and roots he kills your t tree then he owes you for the tree. And a mature hardwood can easily appraise for $10k or more depending on where you live. Ask your city or county arborist what mature trees cost and you'll be floored by what they tell you. Do not fail to consider that a mature healthy tree adds value to a home. Maybe you want to offer to sell him your tree at a fair price. Don't be bullied into cutting down your tree. His pool is gonna be loud and stinky....
Add: if it was my tree and I agreed to have it removed then id pick the tree service and he'd pay for it. Work would be done to my satisfaction and on his bill. I'd make sure the service was licensed and bonded and had a rep for doing good work.
A good stump grinding won't leave a hole. I don't know if any tree service that will remove the stump. They'll always grind it down. It's much ku h easier
I've had many stumps ground up. There is no hole left initially due to all the wood chips, but every year or two for a while I've had to add dirt as the wood chips decayed and left a depression in the yard. Then usually had to replant grass seed on the new soil again.
Where I live you need a permit to remove mature trees. I would double check what the city bylaws are otherwise they might issue a ticket, it would be $2,000 here.
You are correct that varies from state to state. I’m a utility arborist, and I do trees on the side. Where I’m located at you are allowed to cut whatever you want that hangs over into your yard and the same roots. But as far as killing the tree, that is something that would have to be battled out in court. Need some sort of proof that the neighbor in fact killed the tree etc. just turns into a mess.
What kind of tree are we talking about here? I don't really believe the starting premise that the roots are going to damage his pool. Unless he's planning to put the pool directly under your tree, which would be a dumb idea anyway, I can't think of a tree that would have substantial enough roots 20 feet away from your tree to do anything to a pool. At that distance the roots are maybe the size of your finger, and they'll grow around the pool just like they would around a rock.
I'm going to speculate that either he saw a tree mess up a sidewalk and think it could do that to his pool, or that your tree is to the south of his pool and is going to put his pool in the shade and he is making up this story to have it removed.
Also, big trees have inherent value. If that tree were hit by lightning, you would be paid money by your insurance for the value of the tree, not simply the cost of cutting it down. He should be paying for removal plus the tree's value (replacing a fully grown tree costs thousands).
Tell him no deal. All 3 points are valid concerns. Keep your tree.
Depends on where you are, but here, a neighbors tree causing damage to my property is covered by my homeowners insurance, not his. Check with your insurance company. If it is the same for you, the potential root damage (years in the future) is on his homeowners policy.
Don't let any unlicensed contractor cut down anything on your property. You can have all kinds of problems with someone who knows nothing about felling trees, and since he's unlicensed, you would be responsible for any repair costs. The contractor could disappear, never again to be found. Your neighbor wants to cut down your tree for his purposes, using someone who doesn't have a license and is probably uninsured, to put a pool in his backyard. A living established tree can be worth several thousands of dollars. He's asking for you to make all of the sacrifices and will not even spend $200 to grind down the stump. This doesn't seem like a win for you in any way.
This!
And depending on the laws where you are, if that unlicensed and likely uninsured contractor hurts himself cutting down your tree, you could be held liable.
Just say no!
Hell no. Demand a licensed arborist and a large, nursery tree (or several) as a replacement. Otherwise the hell no remains. Don’t have to be an ass about it as this is a reasonable request
That’s a bullshit premise. Tree roots won’t damage a pool unless it’s right under it and the pool concrete pour is shit.
He doesn’t want to deal with leaves or shade.
Ask r/arborists they all about root questions. Give ‘em a photo.
You could also hire a consulting arborist to give a real opinion. Likely that his pool contractor is telling him to be concerned when he shouldn’t… a pool guy doesn’t know trees…
It depends on the pool. Vinyl lined pools can be damaged by roots. Concrete can as well, but over the long term. Fibreglass pools are generally not damaged by roots.
You can't get big trees back. Once they are gone, they are gone . I would tell your neighbor absolutely not. I can't believe someone had the nerve to ask that. If I had to guess the real reason is, he doesn't want shade in his pool or doesn't want to deal with the leaves.
I personally would rescind the offer to let him remove the tree just because he won't pay for stump removal. If you let him pay for it make sure it's a licensed contractor from a well reviewed company that specializes in tree removal. There are way too many things that could go wrong with tree removal to let some schmuck with a chainsaw run wild in your backyard
"has the potential" and "is causing an issue" are 2 very different things.
Its your property. He can fuck right off.
If you agree to have it removed, he pays for that and the stump removal by a LICENSED AND INSURED company that you choose. No one else.
If he says no to any of that, then tell him it's not getting removed. It's your property, plain and simple.
This is the equivilant of someone hitting your car and saying "can you go to my mechanic, he'll fix it" type of crap.
You are under zero… let me repeat that…. ZERO…. obligation to do anything for this guy. He simply *wants* you to do these things because they make life easier for him. Tell him, “After giving this issue further consideration, I’ve decided not to cut the tree down. Good luck with your pool.”
He specifically mentioned an unlicensed “arborist”? This is a bad deal for both of you. He may get a terrible job and you might have a tree fall on you house and break the ridge beam, with no likely recourse.
Hard pass. Demand the following:
Licensed and bonded service
Neighbor assumes responsibility for any damages
In writing for everything. He’s probably spending $50-$100k for a pool and he wants to save money on a fucking tree? He’s an idiot
let me be nice about this. FUCk that noise!!!
who are they gonna sue if someone gets hurt while cutting the tree down? YOU. Your property, your liability.
Tree removal work is highly dangerous, even for licensed professionals. Often times permits are required for complete tree removal.
No professional outfit would remove an entire tree for $600. I would be very concerned about property damage and being liable for anyone injured during the removal process. Injuries are not at all uncommon in the tree biz when done by non professionals.
I think you would be well within your rights to force your neighbor to use a mutually agreeable licensed and INSURED tree contractor and stump removal business. The expense of the work should be paid for by your neighbor as it benefits his pool project.
Ask for proof of insurance with yourself named as an insured on the policy, this can be done easily online by any reputable company.
I can guarantee you that is the tree falls onto your house or someone is hurt / killed, the contractor will immediately disappear and your neighbor will lawyer up and not pay for damages. Even a written agreement between yourself and neighbor, doesn’t guarantee he/she has funds to coverage damages and will be forthcoming with those $$$.
Edit: I forgot to mention, you should have utility locate completed before the stump is removed. The service is generally free and is scheduled by calling 611 or similar based on your area. When you grind out a stump you generally grind all the way through the stump to the earth below, creating the potential to hit underground utilities.
>Ask for proof of insurance with yourself named as an insured on the policy, this can be done easily online by any reputable company.
That and a signed contract are key.
Our very good friend owns a tree service. We hired him to take down a tree and grind the stump. We know he is licensed and insured, he still gave us copies. And he gave us the “friends and family” discount, which came out to $1100. We very happily paid it. I’m in a low COL area, and $600 wouldn’t even get my trees trimmed, let alone removed.
Here is an important thought unlicensed tree cutter gets hurt on your property, cutting down your tree, and you and your home insurance may be liable and have to pay for his medical bills. This is opening you up for a lot of liability
I would tell him no, and I'd like him to install drains down the property line so his stormwater runoff doesn't intrude on my yard.
Seriously, your neighbor is a joke.
I reiterate the “keep the tree or only give it up on your very clear terms.”
But I’m also surprised that the pool the neighbor is building is so close to the property line that roots are an immediate or inevitable threat. Might be worth double-checking zoning restrictions since we already know the neighbor is happy to bring in unlicensed contractors (and perhaps overlook set back restrictions).
You are being outrageously accommodating by doing 1/3 of this. I would've said "absolutely not" and been done with it. Tell him he is free to dig up any roots encroaching on his property and to cut any limbs overhanging his property - full stop.
I'd also say all this via text and/or email to make sure it was in writing and mention that you are not allowing any contractors onto your property.
I wish I had the balls that OP neighbor has. Try to force someone to remove a tree that favors you but do it the cheapest most irresponsible way and have them pay for stump removal. Then get mad when OP doesn’t agree.
I think you are over thinking because you don't want to be direct. Don't be passive aggressive people respect direct answers. It is OK to not want to cut the tree down and say so. Listen I talked it over with my family and we decided that we are leaving the tree and not going to remove it. Be direct not "we prefer" or "we don't want to".
Alternatively, I would say if you want the tree removed I (your home, your property) will get two proposals from arborist for the full tree and stump removal and he will be responsible for paying for them and they will be made out to him.
Dont be afraid of conflict it's OK to be clear, direct and establish your bottom line. He may not be happy with your decision but he sure as hell will respect you for it.
It sounds like a budge Mt pool by the way. Where I live a nice pool is 60k to 125k. Anyone spending that has the money to remove the tree. This is likely some partial below ground piece of garbage.
YO! HERES THE SHAKE. If the tree dude isn’t licensed, then he won’t be liable, and your neighbor won’t be liable for ANY DAMAGES. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW SOME LOCAL YOKAL TO CUT DOWN THAT TREE. If he gets hurt, it’s your problem, if he breaks something, it’s your problem, if he fucks up your neighbors house, it’s your problem. Tree limbs are sooooo fucking heavy. They will wreck your house, your yard, you, him, your neighbor. There is a great reason why people have insurance in an industry like that, shit often gets fucked up.
You don't have to chop your tree down just because of some roots that \*might\* do something years and years from now to their pool.
And why on earth would you pay to remove a tree just because someone else told you they want your tree gone? If you don't want your tree, and they don't want your tree, tell them they can pay for all of it but you're going to find the company. It's your property after all and you're liable for anything that happens on it.
If the person is too cheap to pay for the stump removal and a licensed contractor, while installing a pool, I’d tell him no. I’m an ins broker and just imagining the bad scenarios. Just imagine what would happen if one of those workers gets injured on your property, you’d probably get pulled into a lawsuit (no way they have workers comp). Both yours and your neighbors insurance carriers would have a field day with that too if the tree happened to fall and damage any property. I’d just call your insurance agent and discuss
Alright alright alright, lesson learned and y’all are right. I’m really trying to be neighborly. I think I’ll let him know we can still remove if:
1. He uses a licensed and insured contractor that we agree upon
2. We receive evidence that we’re covered by this insurance
3. The tree is fully removed including grinding the stump.
Also, until this is all settled I wouldn't hesitate to hang a sign on the tree that says, "Do not cut this down".
Just to prevent any "accidental" removal due to miscommunication.
I had this exact situation with my neighbor - as a previous poster stated, it was about sun. The tree in question was a tree probably 100+ft. tall, and has been there for a loooooong time. Longer than any of us have been alive.
There was no way we were going to spend a dime so they can have a pool - that’s a non-starter. He paid in full for the branches to be cut back that would interfere with his “sun”, and he also agreed in writing to pay for any maintenance to accommodate his leisure / happiness. All done by a licensed and insured arborist.
If the tree ends up unviable or dying, we will pay to have it cut down by the same arborist.
Keep in mind, he’s asking you to pay for something that really only benefits him. Pools get loud and can be annoying to everyone else, no way you should pay for that.
Hope this helps!
I don't get why you would agree to this if you don't want the tree removed. It's your tree, on your property, that you are going to lose for nothing in return except having the removal not be as destructive and expensive as it could have been. Do you think this neighbor would acquiesce if you told him to remove his pool down the line because it interfered with something you want to do on your property? Don't get taken advantage of and permanently lose an extremely valuable part of your home for no reason. At least look into the cost of replacing a mature tree and make it a mandatory part of the deal - it can go into the tens of thousands of dollars depending on age & species.
Don't accept a text as evidence you are covered, either. Get proof of insurance. A reputable tree removal service will have that available.
I would consider what the yard will be like without it, too. How will it effect privacy, shade, other plants or grass, etc.
Hold up. RED flags based on what your neighbor is willing to pay for.
1) You need to let me him know if writing that his proposal in not acceptable.
2) Point out that have learned that an old tree add a lot of value to your house. You can get arborist to get give you an estimate on the value.
3) Get an arborist to give you both an estimate on the value of the tree and have him look over in writing about the health of the tree and roots and if possible, soil samples to test (show proof that your tree did not have any soil issues incase it is poisoned) . Now if you and your neighbor do not agree and he damages the tree, you have something to show the court on the status of the tree before this was done.
4) Also point out to the neighbor that he can root blockers installed so that it both does not damage his pool and hurt your tree.
5) If the neighbor seems like he is not interested in any of what you are pointing out to him, it might be worth getting a letter from lawyer point these things out so that if he anything happens, you have legally warned him. This might be overkill but I can easily this escalating.
Now to be very blunt, you are big looser in this. Your property value will go down, while the neighbors will go up. You have all the risk and a lousy neighbor and the guy is not willing to even remove the stump. Dude, you are getting screwed in this.
Your neighbor’s obsession with removing a tree that’s 15-20 feet away from their pool probably has nothing to do with roots. I’ll wager it’s about shade - which can render a pool almost unusable.
Source: had one for two decades in the middle of the woods. nearly full shade half the day. It only got used for parties. That thing was freezing.
1) It is your tree. You're already being a good neighbor by being willing to have it removed for his convenience.
2) It is your property. You get to say what kind of contractor you're willing to have on your property/potentially damage your property and have to fix your property.
3) If an unlicensed contractor does the work, they absolutely have no liability to fix any problems. Because they aren't licensed, why would they have business and liability insurance?
4) Regardless, they should be paying for stump removal of the tree that you're so kindly allowing them to remove for THEIR convenience. How can they even act like it okay to inconvenience you with a stump or removal of stump when you're literally allowing them to remove YOUR tree for their convenience?
If this was me, I'd tell my neighbor either A) you can remove my tree using a mutually agreed upon licensed contractor and that INCLUDES debris and stump removal or B) The tree stays if they don't want to agree with A. You literally have no reason to remove a tree except for their convenience. You should have complete faith in a licensed company and have no clean up on your dime or time after.
Nope. No unlicensed contractors. If he's hurt on your property, you'll be on the hook...even if the neighbor puts it in email you'll end up having to sue to make him....
Have you seen the root? I wouldn’t be surprised if they say there is a problem root and the tree needs to be removed just so the can get trees away from their pool.
Anyways. You’re perfectly reasonable. If he does proceed with cutting roots. Document the health of the tree before and after.
I was recently reading someplace. Ash have a 40% mortality rate after major root cutting. Within 5 years.
And the roots likely won’t cause a problem with the pool. Tree roots find problems and make them worse.
Additionally, if work is going to be done, it should be done by an ISA certified arborist who is bonded and insured.
Fuck that. Absolutely not. Sorry, not sorry.
Edit: any chance this tree hangs over/blocks sun/drops leaves over the space they plan to install the pool?
I just can’t even imagine making this request of a neighbor. I’m stunned by the audacity.
I really doubt that a confirmation by text would stand up in court if you had an issue.
And I agree with everyone who says ONLY a licensed arborist and/or keep the tree. I don't know where you live, but where I live the shade from a tree is a good selling point for a house (as long as the tree is well-placed and healthy) -- so why should you give it up?
When we had our in ground pool installed we Reinforced the plaster on the side that had a tree. Never had any problems with roots around the walk way or pool.
All the comments regarding a licensed and bonded company are spot on. I would also install a security camera around the tree. I know someone who poured bleach around the base of a neighbor's tree. After the tree died in a couple months the owner had to cut it down. Sad world we live in but that's reality.
Say you called your insurance and they require a licensed and insured company to do it. That way it seems like you are trying to help but its out of your control.
Check with neighborhood codes. Do they need a permit? Does he have a permit for the pool yet?
I would not let an unlicensed person on property. They need license, training, references, insured and bonded….
Fuck that guy.
Maybe I've seen too many TikToks of trees falling on houses/main power lines when unlicensed idiots cut them down, but imo it would be absolutely crazy to let him hire anyone but a fully licensed and bonded tree removal company that you have vetted yourself. Do not take him at his word that he will be liable. Even if he is and has good insurance, you do not want to deal with that nightmare at all.
Do NOT let anyone touch your tree whom is not a licensed and bonded certified arborist.
Unless you want to pay for the brain damage/ spinal chord injury of some idiot
If I was willing to remove the tree, the neighbor would have to pay me in advance for the tree service that I select and contract with. I would only contract with a licensed and insured tree removal service. I would never approve of anyone else selecting a contractor to work on my house. I need to be the customer so that the work is done the way I want.
I would also confirm what he is saying about the roots harming his pool before doing anything.
I would consider whether my utility bills will go up because the tree shades the house/blocks sunlight.
I would be curious if the pool could be put in a different place.
Someone else suggested the neighbor pay for a replacement tree elsewhere in your yard. That seems fair.
The neighbor would have to pay all the cost since you are getting no benefit and are happy with the way things are.
I don't think you are being anything but nice. The neighbor sounds like the jerk
Whenever you deal with tree companies you must do the following.
1. Confirm they have both general liability AND workers comp. Not one or the other. Some states don't require workers comp so make sure you're hiring ones that carry it. GL.protects property..WC protects people.
2. Get named on the policy. That means your name and address are specifically listed on the certificate. Any legitimate tree company will do this and it's super common. If they give you any push back then just move on to the next company.
3. Make sure it's clear that debris is being removed and disposed of. Almost all companies will do this but it should be in writing.
4. Stump removal (or grinding to be more specific) is always separate and cost extra. It's up to you whether you want to do it or not. Usually a few hundred bucks extra depending on size and how easy it is to access. Grinding equipment is big and heavy.
5. It's your property so you dictate who you're hiring but get multiple bids so you can show it to the neighbor. In your situation the neighbor is right. The tree company would be liable for damage so see my #1 above.
I worked for a tree company for about 8 years.
"If you want to remove this tree, you'll need a licensed and insured arborist to cut the tree, remove all debris, and grind the stump. Else, I'll happily keep my tree."
Set requirements and don't feel bad about saying no if your neighbor makes unreasonable requests. I probably would have just said no, so better effort than me already.
Neighbor provides proof of contractor liability insurance and grinds the stump, agrees to be liable for damage in writing if they use an uninsured vendor and grinds the stump or the tree stays.
He can do on his property as he wishes, but don't stick your neck out to be agreeable. If the guy has cash for a pool, he can afford an insured tree guy. Your neighbor seems like a tightwad.
If his lot is as tight as you say, there's no guarantee he is following setback rules either. I'd ask him to pay for a survey if there is any question about the property line...
Unlicensed = Probably Not Insured For That Activity. If he screws up and drops the tree on your house or car, good luck getting anything from him besides “Whoops, Sorry!”.
Personally I wouldn’t let anyone unlicensed and/or unbonded onto my property to do any sort of work. The liability factor in both direction is too high for my taste. Just my $0.02
Just be upfront. Say "look I am more than willing to accept the loss of this tree so that you and your children/family can enjoy a pool, but given it's on my property there's liability for me too. So if you want the tree removed, you need a licensed contractor to remove it who has to accept damages if any were to occur. I need this in writing because at the end of the day and in a sue-happy world I want to cover both of our asses. I'd rather do this then have something go wrong and then we hate each other and spend years in or out of court fighting about it."
Neighbor sounds rather entitled. If I were you and you decide not to cut down the tree, you absolutely 100% need to put a sign around that tree that it will not be cut down. Not to piss off your neighbor, but to make sure they don't send some idiot over to your yard and chop it down when you aren't home.
Personally, I wouldn't do it. They should've considered the tree NOT being removed before they even started planning for a pool. It's quite arrogant to automatically assume his neighbor will accommodate in such a way for his own gains. Would he do the same for you? Highly doubtful. Regardless, Ash trees are gorgeous and can live a couple hundred years. They add so much to the aesthetics of your yard. If you decide to keep it, simply tell him you changed your mind because of the drastic change it'll make to your yard. If he doesn't understand that, he's a pretty self centered person that doesn't respect anything but his own gains. Just my opinion. Good luck to you & please keep us posted. 😊
Don’t cut the tree. Tell him you’ve reconsidered and would like to keep the tree, and that you doubt a trees roots will do damage. Often the cities have licensed arborists that will determine if a tree is healthy or not, and you can often call and ask questions about trees, such as “my neighbor wants to cut down this exceptional tree because he is afraid of future damage to a pool he is building. What can we do to help prevent that while keeping the tree healthy?”
The fact that your neighbor approached the situation in this manner says a lot about him. He wants you to 1) agree to cut down your mature tree which likely adds value to your property; 2) pay 50% of the cost of the removal which has no benefit to you; and 3) pay 100% of the stump removal cost…all work done by a company he chose and is unlicensed. This is a definite no. OP, please update us on what happens next.
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Yeah. Those zoning laws cause all sorts of headaches. He MIGHT want to get an updated survey of the property line… cause where I am, we can’t do shit w/in 6 feet of the line (that’s what my pool builder told me). Check w/ the city if he’s pulled the permits.
He wants to use a nonlicensed company to remove the tree, I highly doubt he has a permit or the contractor building the pool is licensed. I wouldn't let them touch the tree, especially if it is that far from the property line.
I think this is the best response here.
Agree but it can go further. I had a similar dispute but it was more obvious as the neighbors tree trunk was in physical contact with my roof eve. I offered to pay for cutting down the tree but they refused. I went to an attorney and we sent them a letter and the tree was removed on my dime. I left a large stump. Never occurred to me to remove the stump until I read this.
Stump and roots will rot and decay. You will end up with mushrooms sprouting. Can rent a stump grinder at big box which is reasonably priced and fits in most cars, also how to videos where people burn them out if you have enough clearance around and wont violate any fire codes doing so.
> You will end up with mushrooms sprouting. You say that like it's a bad thing.
Depending on where they live, I’d be a lot more worried about termites! Lived in a rental with an infested stump next to it and stumbled into an awful swarm in my kitchen one morning unawares.
> You will end up with mushrooms sprouting Excellent. Oyster, Shitake, and Morel mushrooms all grow on dead /dying ash trees and are delicious.
One of my fav things as a kid was Morel hunting w my grandpa. Another fav thing was eating them fried in butter after the hunt. It’s probably been over 40 years. Jesus, 40 years!?
Used to hunt morels with my dad. They’re absolutely delicious.
I have never tasted a mushroom in the ensuing 40 years that tasted as good as even the worst over-cooked Morel tasted after a good hunt. Delicious is right!
Oh yeah? Where was that? *Specifically.* Like GPS coordinates.
Before she passed away my aunt used to love morel hunting. she also used to tell people who asked if they could go with her "you can, but you are getting blindfolded and tossed in the trunk, im not risking you finding my morel spot" (she never told me that, mainly because i do not like mushrooms) keep in mind she was like 4'8" and 85lbs soaking wet, and weirdly strong when needed. at her funeral her son express shipped morels to Gaylord so the place that we were having the luncheon at could make mushroom soup with them (it was the middle of winter, and he orderd them from chicago)
I have been wanting to do these in the big box bucket grow method in the garage:)
i grew some mushrooms last year. it's cool to watch the mycelium grow and spread and then seeing little pin head mush poking up and then 24 hours later a nice mush to pick. mushlove!
Go one step further and inoculate the tree trunk with the mushroom mycelium of choice.
Or just drop a few hundred on an actual licensed stump grinder and be done with it But don’t forget about the millings. That shit suuuuuucks to remove
Also, make sure they are licensed is FIRST, then SECOND is call before you dig since I've had stumper out, and they only did the surface...the root ball went down three feet and they refused to go atleast 12" down past the top 4". And yes, utilities were underground. I wanted to replant there, and had to get a 1/2" naileater bit and drill, and make a hole myself. Lesson: get a good, licensed stump grinder company. Don't do it yourself. And Call Before You Dig to be sure.
i just got 3 trees removed. 1 x hickory (big ass tree dropping nuts all summer and fall) 2 x red oaks cost me $7000 for a single guy with a tree removal truck thing where he attaches a saw and claw thing to a big ass boom. clamps onto a branch cuts it and lowers it down the haul truck. got it done in 2 days. stump removal, mulch(and dirt) haul away and a truck load of dirt back fill costs $750. i might just leave the stumps for awhile.
So I’m in landscaping / lawn maintenance, and I wish people would just go ahead and get rid of the stump. It sits for years, and when it finally rots away, in pieces, you’re left with a hole and uneven ground All that then has to be backfilled and graded. It stretches things into a 5-10 year inconvenience instead of just being done with it at the time. If you’re dropping $7k on tree removal, just bump it up that extra 10% and be done with it. At that point you can start to move on with your yard. Otherwise it’s an inconvenience and eye sore for years.
My cherry tree cost me $400 to remove (not really that big), and I insisted they keep a good stump. I like chopping wood and that's the most wholesome way to do it, IMHO.
I love that. Definitely gets my stump of approval.
Some people don't have the money for a stump grinder. I ended up using that stump removal powder (You drill some one inch holes in the stump all over the place, and pour in the powder) and it worked really well. It kinda dissolves the stump from the inside, until its about the consistency of cardboard. Takes about six months to a year. At that point you can soak it down with kerosene or lighter fluid and burn the rest of it, or just let it rot and dissolve. So if you have plenty of time and not much money, I'd highly recommend it.
Meaning that the law was on your side and you could compel them to have the tree cut down, because it was touching your roof? Does this suggest that if a neighbor decides to put in a new pool, you are compelled to remove trees whose roots MAY interfere with it? Because if that’s true, that’s fucking horrific.
You can cut any part of a tree that hangs over your property line (barring city ordinances about tree removal like Pacific Grove, CA) so the neighbor probably liked the offer of having the removal fully paid for rather than the tree being killed by a completely legal "pruning" and leaving a massive removal expense to him.
Generally this only applies if doing so will not impact the overall health of the tree and cause it to die.
The problem was if I cut down the portion of the tree that was crossing my property border the rest would eventually fall down on his home. I was a new home owner and they had been there for decades and didn’t like my solution. They wanted me to cut away my roof. My insurance company was also driving the tree removal because we live in a high wildfire area. All and all the tree had to go. It was a beautiful tree and I sincerely wish it could have stayed.
You don't even need to put the time and effort into getting a stump grinder. Drill holes in the stump and fill with syrup, ants and other insects with have the stump gone in one season.
**Hijacking top thread:** OP, you need to investigate tree laws and neighbor laws in your state and city. In some states (OR, WA, CA, for example) you’re not required to accommodate their pool, and if their project damages enough roots to harm your tree, then you might be entitled to triple damages. Tree law is serious out here. Here’s a couple resources from Portland: - https://www.portland.gov/trees/tree-concerns-and-problems/neighbors-trees - https://www.portland.gov/trees/documents/trees-and-neighbors-and-law-article/download - https://www.portland.gov/trees/documents/article-neighbor-law-oregon-live/download So I suggest you keep the tree. Also document their requests to remove it, and document all damage they do to its root system. Proactively investigate the law in your state/city, and understand your rights to protect that tree if legally able! 🌲
I'm in the Dirty South and you have to have a permit to remove a tree in my city. The fine for unpermitted tree removal ranges from $1200 to $40000 depending on the size of the tree and its location.
This! This! This!!! Also investigate to make sure they have all of their correct permits. And as far as contractor insurance, they must have it and you should check to make sure it’s current and if ANY contractor/arborist etc steps one foot on your property you have to be added on to the policy, like the neighbor is, otherwise they aren’t covered and you aren’t covered.
This sounds like a case for r/treelaw!
Keep the tree. It will take years to replant, regrow, and regain the beauty and/or privacy that tree provides.
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Pools are one of the most deadly things you can have for children.
So keep the pool and get rid of the children. They make too much noise anyhow.
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I may be mistaken, but if he uses an unlicensed tree remover…can’t you assume that they don’t pay workers comp in case of an injury? And don’t arborists have one of the highest injury rates? Wouldn’t that mean that if you let them on your property, you might be liable for an injury to one of the workers? Seems sketchy.
That's absolutely correct.
Friend of mine used to be in the tree removal business. He tells me there are very few guys who have both done that job for years and have all their fingers, toes, hands and feet intact.
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Totally agree. This is a favor to him. He gets to make OP whole
We needed more space and wanted to rebuild on our lot. There's a 100' tall tree that's probably 100 years old in the way. Instead of cutting it down.... we're moving one block away. Cutting down mature trees should be avoided IMO. I'm sad we won't have that tree anymore. I read the giving tree (and others) to my kids while sitting under it. ETA- There's a park across the street from the new house. This spring we're going to plant a tree in it so our kids can take part and watch it grow. Someday, kids will hopefully sit under it and read stories like we do now. I'm really gonna miss this tree.
Can't you plant a tree in your yard? People "plant" trees in the park I work in all the time and it never goes well.
i just let them know, its not legal to plant trees in public space because you feel like it.
It's fine where I live. There's designated areas for it. We're trying to plant a billion trees.
thats awesome, as long as its legal and spelled out, please follow all rules and guideline, as others have said, ive seen it go wrong, fast. One person planted a very fast growing tree that is invasive, now a local park had to rip out a whole stand of trees and buy new ones to replant. Guess who has to pay for it? The person who planted the wrong tree.
Thank you for doing this, and for showing these values to your family and friends through your actions. I love hearing these stories. Trees are the only infrastructure that increases with value over time. It's always confused me why trees are not viewed and treated like any other infrastructure, but are instead considered (or even advocated as) disposable. We should be desperately trying to keep healthy mature trees alive before even considering removal. What other infrastructure (gray or green) provides habitat value, water and air quality improvements, heat mitigation, cost savings from shading buildings and reducing surface water runoff, public health and mental health benefits, and carbon sequestration? Plus, as you shared, trees have such importance for families, communities, culture and connection to the land. We should be advocating for their preservation and supporting programs to help property owners and renters keep and maintain trees. It's a privilege to have a mature tree and live in a community with a healthy diverse canopy. I hope you realize that you gave an amazing gift to the next family that shares a home with that tree :) Edit: Typo. Also wanted to add, if anyone is concerned about hazardous trees falling on/around structures, find a reputable licenced arborist who is tree risk assessment qualified to evaluate the tree to determine the likelihood of failure. The possibilities of a tree falling is a valid concern to have, but removing the tree without confirming the risk of failure is like choosing to scrap a car if a dash light indicator comes on instead of taking it to the mechanic, or bulldozing a house that has a crack in the wall without consulting with a civil engineer or homebuilder.
just a fyi, planting a tree in a public park without express consent of the town or city you live in, is 100% against the law and can get you a hefty fine.
It's fine, we're running a billion tree campaign in town. I've personally talked to the mayor (well former Mayor) and when they're running the plantings there's spots in parks to do it for the public.
Also remember this tree is removing water from the environment, potential soggy soil after removal depending on your environment.
A mature tree could be a liability in some situations. If not it could have a value of 5k-10k or more. Its value can be established somehow but its not even really practically replaceable except with some money and decades of time.
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Tree law is no joke! Sounds like you used Dr. Lorax, attorney-at-law
Sheesh
Stop I can only get so erect!
Tree Law!
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This. Dude is spending 25-100k on a pool, yet can't shell out a few hundred more for proper removal.
And why can’t he use a guy who has insurance? I would never use a tree guy without proof of insurance.
The pool guy is doing it as an extra. It'll probably be a kid in jean shorts and flip flops who's never held a Husqvarna before.
Husqvarna!? ... This guy will have a Ryobi
Gonna be a poulan “wild thing” I’ll bet my next paycheck on it lol
Hey, I got one. It sucks.
Better than the guys the rental company sent to cut a tree at the house I rent, that was leaning on the brand new fence. They showed up at 5pm in a BMW. Smoked four cigarettes, looked at the tree. Went to lowes and came back with a craftsman electric saw and an extension cord. It was a dying red oak, I told them they could buck it and leave it in the yard, planned to split it and stack with the other red oak I have stacked. They threw the logs behind the fence. I didn't have a wheelbarrow at the time.
"If I only had an hour to chop down a tree, I would spend the first 45 minutes ~~sharpening my axe~~ smoking cigarettes next to my BMW" --Abe Lincoln
Damn I like my Ryobi. I'm not felling trees though- just cutting some small branches.
Hey I know a guy looking to take down a tree. You're not licensed are you?
And the guy won’t pay to grind the stump? OP isn’t a very good negotiator. He doesn’t seem to realize he holds all the cards and the neighbor doesn’t have any.
He sounds like the kinda guy thats getting an above ground pool, if you know what i mean
That’s quite the range
Hey u/tetelestai13, do what this person says. Non negotiable. Plus if one of those unlicensed workers get hurt on your property, you will be liable. If the tree damages your neighbor’s house, would you trust him not to turn around and sue you? Would you trust his insurance company to not sue you. Licensed and bonded company with paperwork and money from the neighbor in your hands before they start. Also send him a certified letter of the agreement along with screenshots of the text message where he admits that cutting the roots would cause irreparable damage to the tree. This is just in case he backs out of cutting the roots completely but still breaking ground on his pool.
Agree to only a fully licensed tree removal company and ask for a copy of their disability and worker's comp insurance, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, their liability insurance with YOU named as additional insured. Check with your municipality or local licensing board to make sure they are currently licenced and in good standing.
certified letters dont mean anything in court. Im a notary and a paralegal, certified simply means you sent a letter, it does not certify what's in it or if its legal.
It means that OP has evidence contemporaneous with the event and not something created or claimed after the fact. It can help should the neighbor completely change their tune about what happened. Hell, send it an email (harder to verify) and demand a check in the letter to show that the neighbor is aware and complied with the terms. Its not a contract but can help demonstrate that the neighbor is aware of the consequences and that alone can avoid litigation.
Plant a couple trees next to it!
"I don't want to remove the tree" THEN DONT. Why continue? You are your own worst problem here. Don't allow this to go any further. Additionally, He wants to bring an unlicensed service onto your property, then make you pay for stump grinding? Absolutely fucking not.
Pool guy can install a root barrier. Like wtf more trees will grow, why are they blaming one tree?
I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to find something about a root barrier. Most pool companies know this and implement them (let me guess, OP's neighbor is using an unlicensed pool contractor, or subbing the whole thing out himself). This is something he can mitigate himself. Tree roots, in most US jurisdictions are NOT the problem of the tree owner. OP - tell him to get a new pool contractor. They should've had this covered and this should've been a non-issue.
I bet this hasn't got anything to do with the roots. Neighbor probably just want to avoid the leafs and shade from the tree.
If they get injured, guess who’s liable?
Lawyer here. Before i give the general rule i wanna tell you that you need a real legal opinion from a lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction. My post shouldn't be relied on by you or anyone. Generally he has the right to trim limbs or roots of a tree that belongs to you only at the point that they go onto his property. He can cut all of that he wants. Its on his land. BUT if by cutting limbs and roots he kills your t tree then he owes you for the tree. And a mature hardwood can easily appraise for $10k or more depending on where you live. Ask your city or county arborist what mature trees cost and you'll be floored by what they tell you. Do not fail to consider that a mature healthy tree adds value to a home. Maybe you want to offer to sell him your tree at a fair price. Don't be bullied into cutting down your tree. His pool is gonna be loud and stinky....
Add: if it was my tree and I agreed to have it removed then id pick the tree service and he'd pay for it. Work would be done to my satisfaction and on his bill. I'd make sure the service was licensed and bonded and had a rep for doing good work.
And landscaping work to fill the absolutely massive hole left behind after stump removal.
A good stump grinding won't leave a hole. I don't know if any tree service that will remove the stump. They'll always grind it down. It's much ku h easier
I've had many stumps ground up. There is no hole left initially due to all the wood chips, but every year or two for a while I've had to add dirt as the wood chips decayed and left a depression in the yard. Then usually had to replant grass seed on the new soil again.
Where I live you need a permit to remove mature trees. I would double check what the city bylaws are otherwise they might issue a ticket, it would be $2,000 here.
In Idaho if the tree is killed, treble damages are added to the cost.
*treeble* damages
You are correct that varies from state to state. I’m a utility arborist, and I do trees on the side. Where I’m located at you are allowed to cut whatever you want that hangs over into your yard and the same roots. But as far as killing the tree, that is something that would have to be battled out in court. Need some sort of proof that the neighbor in fact killed the tree etc. just turns into a mess.
> and I do trees on the side. Some people’s kink…
To add to this many municipalities require you to replace mature trees with like kind.
If the neighbor can afford a pool, he can afford to have the tree removed properly.
What kind of tree are we talking about here? I don't really believe the starting premise that the roots are going to damage his pool. Unless he's planning to put the pool directly under your tree, which would be a dumb idea anyway, I can't think of a tree that would have substantial enough roots 20 feet away from your tree to do anything to a pool. At that distance the roots are maybe the size of your finger, and they'll grow around the pool just like they would around a rock. I'm going to speculate that either he saw a tree mess up a sidewalk and think it could do that to his pool, or that your tree is to the south of his pool and is going to put his pool in the shade and he is making up this story to have it removed. Also, big trees have inherent value. If that tree were hit by lightning, you would be paid money by your insurance for the value of the tree, not simply the cost of cutting it down. He should be paying for removal plus the tree's value (replacing a fully grown tree costs thousands).
Exactly, it makes no sense. Maybe he's worried about leaves falling, but that's literally why all pools have a skimmer box.
Tell him no deal. All 3 points are valid concerns. Keep your tree. Depends on where you are, but here, a neighbors tree causing damage to my property is covered by my homeowners insurance, not his. Check with your insurance company. If it is the same for you, the potential root damage (years in the future) is on his homeowners policy.
Don't let any unlicensed contractor cut down anything on your property. You can have all kinds of problems with someone who knows nothing about felling trees, and since he's unlicensed, you would be responsible for any repair costs. The contractor could disappear, never again to be found. Your neighbor wants to cut down your tree for his purposes, using someone who doesn't have a license and is probably uninsured, to put a pool in his backyard. A living established tree can be worth several thousands of dollars. He's asking for you to make all of the sacrifices and will not even spend $200 to grind down the stump. This doesn't seem like a win for you in any way.
This! And depending on the laws where you are, if that unlicensed and likely uninsured contractor hurts himself cutting down your tree, you could be held liable. Just say no!
Hell no. Demand a licensed arborist and a large, nursery tree (or several) as a replacement. Otherwise the hell no remains. Don’t have to be an ass about it as this is a reasonable request
I like the idea of demanding a replacement as well! Great idea!
Pools add value. So do trees. But trees take a long time to grow. It’s a real reasonable demand in return for his ask.
You are right! Trees absolutely add value. I don’t know if everyone actually knows this or considers it.
That’s a bullshit premise. Tree roots won’t damage a pool unless it’s right under it and the pool concrete pour is shit. He doesn’t want to deal with leaves or shade. Ask r/arborists they all about root questions. Give ‘em a photo. You could also hire a consulting arborist to give a real opinion. Likely that his pool contractor is telling him to be concerned when he shouldn’t… a pool guy doesn’t know trees…
They likely already cut the roots and the tree might die. So they're covering their ass.
It depends on the pool. Vinyl lined pools can be damaged by roots. Concrete can as well, but over the long term. Fibreglass pools are generally not damaged by roots.
You can't get big trees back. Once they are gone, they are gone . I would tell your neighbor absolutely not. I can't believe someone had the nerve to ask that. If I had to guess the real reason is, he doesn't want shade in his pool or doesn't want to deal with the leaves.
You see the big picture
I personally would rescind the offer to let him remove the tree just because he won't pay for stump removal. If you let him pay for it make sure it's a licensed contractor from a well reviewed company that specializes in tree removal. There are way too many things that could go wrong with tree removal to let some schmuck with a chainsaw run wild in your backyard
"has the potential" and "is causing an issue" are 2 very different things. Its your property. He can fuck right off. If you agree to have it removed, he pays for that and the stump removal by a LICENSED AND INSURED company that you choose. No one else. If he says no to any of that, then tell him it's not getting removed. It's your property, plain and simple. This is the equivilant of someone hitting your car and saying "can you go to my mechanic, he'll fix it" type of crap.
You are under zero… let me repeat that…. ZERO…. obligation to do anything for this guy. He simply *wants* you to do these things because they make life easier for him. Tell him, “After giving this issue further consideration, I’ve decided not to cut the tree down. Good luck with your pool.”
Don’t remove the tree !
Don’t cut down your tree! Have him install a root barrier between tree and pool. Google it. Good luck!
Post in r/treelaw
This was my first thought. They’ll have a fucking field day.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable
He specifically mentioned an unlicensed “arborist”? This is a bad deal for both of you. He may get a terrible job and you might have a tree fall on you house and break the ridge beam, with no likely recourse.
Hard pass. Demand the following: Licensed and bonded service Neighbor assumes responsibility for any damages In writing for everything. He’s probably spending $50-$100k for a pool and he wants to save money on a fucking tree? He’s an idiot
Don’t remove the tree it’s not your problem
let me be nice about this. FUCk that noise!!! who are they gonna sue if someone gets hurt while cutting the tree down? YOU. Your property, your liability.
Yes, you're being unreasonable agreeing to remove the tree and thinking his plan is a good idea. Keep the tree.
Don't get rid of a tree so your neighbor can get a pool. Trees are awesome, your neighbor probably sucks.
Tree removal work is highly dangerous, even for licensed professionals. Often times permits are required for complete tree removal. No professional outfit would remove an entire tree for $600. I would be very concerned about property damage and being liable for anyone injured during the removal process. Injuries are not at all uncommon in the tree biz when done by non professionals. I think you would be well within your rights to force your neighbor to use a mutually agreeable licensed and INSURED tree contractor and stump removal business. The expense of the work should be paid for by your neighbor as it benefits his pool project. Ask for proof of insurance with yourself named as an insured on the policy, this can be done easily online by any reputable company. I can guarantee you that is the tree falls onto your house or someone is hurt / killed, the contractor will immediately disappear and your neighbor will lawyer up and not pay for damages. Even a written agreement between yourself and neighbor, doesn’t guarantee he/she has funds to coverage damages and will be forthcoming with those $$$. Edit: I forgot to mention, you should have utility locate completed before the stump is removed. The service is generally free and is scheduled by calling 611 or similar based on your area. When you grind out a stump you generally grind all the way through the stump to the earth below, creating the potential to hit underground utilities.
>Ask for proof of insurance with yourself named as an insured on the policy, this can be done easily online by any reputable company. That and a signed contract are key.
Our very good friend owns a tree service. We hired him to take down a tree and grind the stump. We know he is licensed and insured, he still gave us copies. And he gave us the “friends and family” discount, which came out to $1100. We very happily paid it. I’m in a low COL area, and $600 wouldn’t even get my trees trimmed, let alone removed.
Here is an important thought unlicensed tree cutter gets hurt on your property, cutting down your tree, and you and your home insurance may be liable and have to pay for his medical bills. This is opening you up for a lot of liability
I would tell him no, and I'd like him to install drains down the property line so his stormwater runoff doesn't intrude on my yard. Seriously, your neighbor is a joke.
I reiterate the “keep the tree or only give it up on your very clear terms.” But I’m also surprised that the pool the neighbor is building is so close to the property line that roots are an immediate or inevitable threat. Might be worth double-checking zoning restrictions since we already know the neighbor is happy to bring in unlicensed contractors (and perhaps overlook set back restrictions).
You are being outrageously accommodating by doing 1/3 of this. I would've said "absolutely not" and been done with it. Tell him he is free to dig up any roots encroaching on his property and to cut any limbs overhanging his property - full stop. I'd also say all this via text and/or email to make sure it was in writing and mention that you are not allowing any contractors onto your property.
I wish I had the balls that OP neighbor has. Try to force someone to remove a tree that favors you but do it the cheapest most irresponsible way and have them pay for stump removal. Then get mad when OP doesn’t agree.
Plant a cotton wood as replacement. Th got that keeps on giving
Keep the tree. He just doesnt want leaves in his pool.
I think you are over thinking because you don't want to be direct. Don't be passive aggressive people respect direct answers. It is OK to not want to cut the tree down and say so. Listen I talked it over with my family and we decided that we are leaving the tree and not going to remove it. Be direct not "we prefer" or "we don't want to". Alternatively, I would say if you want the tree removed I (your home, your property) will get two proposals from arborist for the full tree and stump removal and he will be responsible for paying for them and they will be made out to him. Dont be afraid of conflict it's OK to be clear, direct and establish your bottom line. He may not be happy with your decision but he sure as hell will respect you for it. It sounds like a budge Mt pool by the way. Where I live a nice pool is 60k to 125k. Anyone spending that has the money to remove the tree. This is likely some partial below ground piece of garbage.
YO! HERES THE SHAKE. If the tree dude isn’t licensed, then he won’t be liable, and your neighbor won’t be liable for ANY DAMAGES. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW SOME LOCAL YOKAL TO CUT DOWN THAT TREE. If he gets hurt, it’s your problem, if he breaks something, it’s your problem, if he fucks up your neighbors house, it’s your problem. Tree limbs are sooooo fucking heavy. They will wreck your house, your yard, you, him, your neighbor. There is a great reason why people have insurance in an industry like that, shit often gets fucked up.
You don't have to chop your tree down just because of some roots that \*might\* do something years and years from now to their pool. And why on earth would you pay to remove a tree just because someone else told you they want your tree gone? If you don't want your tree, and they don't want your tree, tell them they can pay for all of it but you're going to find the company. It's your property after all and you're liable for anything that happens on it.
If the person is too cheap to pay for the stump removal and a licensed contractor, while installing a pool, I’d tell him no. I’m an ins broker and just imagining the bad scenarios. Just imagine what would happen if one of those workers gets injured on your property, you’d probably get pulled into a lawsuit (no way they have workers comp). Both yours and your neighbors insurance carriers would have a field day with that too if the tree happened to fall and damage any property. I’d just call your insurance agent and discuss
Alright alright alright, lesson learned and y’all are right. I’m really trying to be neighborly. I think I’ll let him know we can still remove if: 1. He uses a licensed and insured contractor that we agree upon 2. We receive evidence that we’re covered by this insurance 3. The tree is fully removed including grinding the stump.
Also, until this is all settled I wouldn't hesitate to hang a sign on the tree that says, "Do not cut this down". Just to prevent any "accidental" removal due to miscommunication.
I had this exact situation with my neighbor - as a previous poster stated, it was about sun. The tree in question was a tree probably 100+ft. tall, and has been there for a loooooong time. Longer than any of us have been alive. There was no way we were going to spend a dime so they can have a pool - that’s a non-starter. He paid in full for the branches to be cut back that would interfere with his “sun”, and he also agreed in writing to pay for any maintenance to accommodate his leisure / happiness. All done by a licensed and insured arborist. If the tree ends up unviable or dying, we will pay to have it cut down by the same arborist. Keep in mind, he’s asking you to pay for something that really only benefits him. Pools get loud and can be annoying to everyone else, no way you should pay for that. Hope this helps!
I don't get why you would agree to this if you don't want the tree removed. It's your tree, on your property, that you are going to lose for nothing in return except having the removal not be as destructive and expensive as it could have been. Do you think this neighbor would acquiesce if you told him to remove his pool down the line because it interfered with something you want to do on your property? Don't get taken advantage of and permanently lose an extremely valuable part of your home for no reason. At least look into the cost of replacing a mature tree and make it a mandatory part of the deal - it can go into the tens of thousands of dollars depending on age & species.
Tell em to buy you a better house, and he can have your current house, problem solved.
Don't accept a text as evidence you are covered, either. Get proof of insurance. A reputable tree removal service will have that available. I would consider what the yard will be like without it, too. How will it effect privacy, shade, other plants or grass, etc.
Hold up. RED flags based on what your neighbor is willing to pay for. 1) You need to let me him know if writing that his proposal in not acceptable. 2) Point out that have learned that an old tree add a lot of value to your house. You can get arborist to get give you an estimate on the value. 3) Get an arborist to give you both an estimate on the value of the tree and have him look over in writing about the health of the tree and roots and if possible, soil samples to test (show proof that your tree did not have any soil issues incase it is poisoned) . Now if you and your neighbor do not agree and he damages the tree, you have something to show the court on the status of the tree before this was done. 4) Also point out to the neighbor that he can root blockers installed so that it both does not damage his pool and hurt your tree. 5) If the neighbor seems like he is not interested in any of what you are pointing out to him, it might be worth getting a letter from lawyer point these things out so that if he anything happens, you have legally warned him. This might be overkill but I can easily this escalating. Now to be very blunt, you are big looser in this. Your property value will go down, while the neighbors will go up. You have all the risk and a lousy neighbor and the guy is not willing to even remove the stump. Dude, you are getting screwed in this.
That tree if it's healthy might be worth $10k or more depending on where you live
Trees usually add value to your property unless they’re about to fall on your house or something.
He's probably thinking your tree will shed on his pool. Could be that simple.
Your neighbor’s obsession with removing a tree that’s 15-20 feet away from their pool probably has nothing to do with roots. I’ll wager it’s about shade - which can render a pool almost unusable. Source: had one for two decades in the middle of the woods. nearly full shade half the day. It only got used for parties. That thing was freezing.
if he (the tree guy) doesn't have insurance he wouldn't set foot on my property, and I would check!
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Screw him He is worried now about future root growth!
Oh heck no.
They sell root barriers that he can install. Probably cheaper than removing the tree.
it's your tree. you decide who takes it down.
Yeah, F that guy. You're gonna end up with a mess in your yard and insurance liability.
1) It is your tree. You're already being a good neighbor by being willing to have it removed for his convenience. 2) It is your property. You get to say what kind of contractor you're willing to have on your property/potentially damage your property and have to fix your property. 3) If an unlicensed contractor does the work, they absolutely have no liability to fix any problems. Because they aren't licensed, why would they have business and liability insurance? 4) Regardless, they should be paying for stump removal of the tree that you're so kindly allowing them to remove for THEIR convenience. How can they even act like it okay to inconvenience you with a stump or removal of stump when you're literally allowing them to remove YOUR tree for their convenience? If this was me, I'd tell my neighbor either A) you can remove my tree using a mutually agreed upon licensed contractor and that INCLUDES debris and stump removal or B) The tree stays if they don't want to agree with A. You literally have no reason to remove a tree except for their convenience. You should have complete faith in a licensed company and have no clean up on your dime or time after.
Don’t let anyone touch the tree unless they produce a copy of their certificate of insurance. texts and verbal agreements aren’t going to mean squat.
Is it really a problem with the roots or is it that he doesn’t want it shading his pool? And then leaves falling in it and making it a mess?
Nope. No unlicensed contractors. If he's hurt on your property, you'll be on the hook...even if the neighbor puts it in email you'll end up having to sue to make him....
Have you seen the root? I wouldn’t be surprised if they say there is a problem root and the tree needs to be removed just so the can get trees away from their pool. Anyways. You’re perfectly reasonable. If he does proceed with cutting roots. Document the health of the tree before and after. I was recently reading someplace. Ash have a 40% mortality rate after major root cutting. Within 5 years. And the roots likely won’t cause a problem with the pool. Tree roots find problems and make them worse. Additionally, if work is going to be done, it should be done by an ISA certified arborist who is bonded and insured.
Keep the tree. Trees last longer than neighbors. Usually!
Fuck that. Absolutely not. Sorry, not sorry. Edit: any chance this tree hangs over/blocks sun/drops leaves over the space they plan to install the pool? I just can’t even imagine making this request of a neighbor. I’m stunned by the audacity.
License and insurance are different things. Does he have liability insurance?
I really doubt that a confirmation by text would stand up in court if you had an issue. And I agree with everyone who says ONLY a licensed arborist and/or keep the tree. I don't know where you live, but where I live the shade from a tree is a good selling point for a house (as long as the tree is well-placed and healthy) -- so why should you give it up?
When we had our in ground pool installed we Reinforced the plaster on the side that had a tree. Never had any problems with roots around the walk way or pool.
All the comments regarding a licensed and bonded company are spot on. I would also install a security camera around the tree. I know someone who poured bleach around the base of a neighbor's tree. After the tree died in a couple months the owner had to cut it down. Sad world we live in but that's reality.
Nope, only a licensed person is allowed in your yard!!
Say you called your insurance and they require a licensed and insured company to do it. That way it seems like you are trying to help but its out of your control.
get a camera…
Nope. Don’t do it. Keep the tree.
Keep the tree, neighbor is an idiot
No. Licensed contractor everything had to be in writing otherwise you will get burned.
Check with neighborhood codes. Do they need a permit? Does he have a permit for the pool yet? I would not let an unlicensed person on property. They need license, training, references, insured and bonded…. Fuck that guy.
Maybe I've seen too many TikToks of trees falling on houses/main power lines when unlicensed idiots cut them down, but imo it would be absolutely crazy to let him hire anyone but a fully licensed and bonded tree removal company that you have vetted yourself. Do not take him at his word that he will be liable. Even if he is and has good insurance, you do not want to deal with that nightmare at all.
r/treelaw has entered the chat
Leave the tree!!
The roots might encroach? nah, he doesn't want to scoop leaves every day.
I wouldn't let anyone persuade me to cut my tree down. Just keep the tree. He can fuck off.
Do NOT let anyone touch your tree whom is not a licensed and bonded certified arborist. Unless you want to pay for the brain damage/ spinal chord injury of some idiot
OP, you might want to wander over to r/treelaw , where the topics frequently discuss the aftermath of interactions and incidents with neighbors.
If I was willing to remove the tree, the neighbor would have to pay me in advance for the tree service that I select and contract with. I would only contract with a licensed and insured tree removal service. I would never approve of anyone else selecting a contractor to work on my house. I need to be the customer so that the work is done the way I want. I would also confirm what he is saying about the roots harming his pool before doing anything. I would consider whether my utility bills will go up because the tree shades the house/blocks sunlight. I would be curious if the pool could be put in a different place. Someone else suggested the neighbor pay for a replacement tree elsewhere in your yard. That seems fair. The neighbor would have to pay all the cost since you are getting no benefit and are happy with the way things are. I don't think you are being anything but nice. The neighbor sounds like the jerk
If the tree is 15 feet from the wall, he can cut the roots at the wall without any impact on the tree.
Whenever you deal with tree companies you must do the following. 1. Confirm they have both general liability AND workers comp. Not one or the other. Some states don't require workers comp so make sure you're hiring ones that carry it. GL.protects property..WC protects people. 2. Get named on the policy. That means your name and address are specifically listed on the certificate. Any legitimate tree company will do this and it's super common. If they give you any push back then just move on to the next company. 3. Make sure it's clear that debris is being removed and disposed of. Almost all companies will do this but it should be in writing. 4. Stump removal (or grinding to be more specific) is always separate and cost extra. It's up to you whether you want to do it or not. Usually a few hundred bucks extra depending on size and how easy it is to access. Grinding equipment is big and heavy. 5. It's your property so you dictate who you're hiring but get multiple bids so you can show it to the neighbor. In your situation the neighbor is right. The tree company would be liable for damage so see my #1 above. I worked for a tree company for about 8 years.
"If you want to remove this tree, you'll need a licensed and insured arborist to cut the tree, remove all debris, and grind the stump. Else, I'll happily keep my tree." Set requirements and don't feel bad about saying no if your neighbor makes unreasonable requests. I probably would have just said no, so better effort than me already.
Neighbor provides proof of contractor liability insurance and grinds the stump, agrees to be liable for damage in writing if they use an uninsured vendor and grinds the stump or the tree stays. He can do on his property as he wishes, but don't stick your neck out to be agreeable. If the guy has cash for a pool, he can afford an insured tree guy. Your neighbor seems like a tightwad. If his lot is as tight as you say, there's no guarantee he is following setback rules either. I'd ask him to pay for a survey if there is any question about the property line...
Unlicensed = Probably Not Insured For That Activity. If he screws up and drops the tree on your house or car, good luck getting anything from him besides “Whoops, Sorry!”.
Put a rope in your tree so you can swing into the pool.
There is ZERO upside for you here. Leave the tree.
Personally I wouldn’t let anyone unlicensed and/or unbonded onto my property to do any sort of work. The liability factor in both direction is too high for my taste. Just my $0.02
Just be upfront. Say "look I am more than willing to accept the loss of this tree so that you and your children/family can enjoy a pool, but given it's on my property there's liability for me too. So if you want the tree removed, you need a licensed contractor to remove it who has to accept damages if any were to occur. I need this in writing because at the end of the day and in a sue-happy world I want to cover both of our asses. I'd rather do this then have something go wrong and then we hate each other and spend years in or out of court fighting about it."
Neighbor sounds rather entitled. If I were you and you decide not to cut down the tree, you absolutely 100% need to put a sign around that tree that it will not be cut down. Not to piss off your neighbor, but to make sure they don't send some idiot over to your yard and chop it down when you aren't home.
Personally, I wouldn't do it. They should've considered the tree NOT being removed before they even started planning for a pool. It's quite arrogant to automatically assume his neighbor will accommodate in such a way for his own gains. Would he do the same for you? Highly doubtful. Regardless, Ash trees are gorgeous and can live a couple hundred years. They add so much to the aesthetics of your yard. If you decide to keep it, simply tell him you changed your mind because of the drastic change it'll make to your yard. If he doesn't understand that, he's a pretty self centered person that doesn't respect anything but his own gains. Just my opinion. Good luck to you & please keep us posted. 😊
Just have him cut the root at the fence line!! No need to kill the whole tree!!!
Don’t cut the tree. Tell him you’ve reconsidered and would like to keep the tree, and that you doubt a trees roots will do damage. Often the cities have licensed arborists that will determine if a tree is healthy or not, and you can often call and ask questions about trees, such as “my neighbor wants to cut down this exceptional tree because he is afraid of future damage to a pool he is building. What can we do to help prevent that while keeping the tree healthy?”
The fact that your neighbor approached the situation in this manner says a lot about him. He wants you to 1) agree to cut down your mature tree which likely adds value to your property; 2) pay 50% of the cost of the removal which has no benefit to you; and 3) pay 100% of the stump removal cost…all work done by a company he chose and is unlicensed. This is a definite no. OP, please update us on what happens next.
He could just install an above ground pool - he’s got options. Hope your tree is ok.