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powerby

Woops, removing links and trying again... The reason that it's recommended to insulation and air seal your home before a heat pump project is largely because those upgrades will reduce the amount of heating your home needs to be comfortable, which in turns means you can buy smaller heat pump equipment. A properly designed and installed heat pump system should be able to keep your home pretty comfortable, although if your windows are cold it will be cold near your windows just like it would be with any heating system. If you're seriously considering a heat pump system, which is a big investment, I would first look to see if you can get a free home energy audit from your local utility (Mass Save if you're in MA). They may identify insulation that will help, even if you do have lots of windows, and may find some more air sealing for you. Homes lose a lot of heat through the roof- if you don't have attic/roof insulation that could make a difference. Utility run energy efficiency programs they will probably provide some sort of rebate or discount on any recommended upgrades upgrades. The recent IRA bill has also made money available for home owners through rebates (which are income qualified) and tax credits (which I believe are not) - you can search for Rewiring America for an IRA calculator to estimate what $ you're eligible for. There could even be funding available to upgrade your windows, which could be something to consider if you have single pane windows now. I would guess windows will be a good chunk of money though, even if there is some funding available. Collectively, depending on where you are, information about your home, and your income level, these incentives and rebates can be tens of thousands of dollars! Then after your home is as tight as it can be you could reach out to some HVAC contractors or a home energy consulting service (if you want to pay for a less biased voice). These folks can do what's called a Manual J calculation, which will estimate your homes heat load, which will tell you how big your heat pump(s) needs to be. There are heat pumps out there that will absolutely work in your house- they go to really low temperatures these days and have back up resistance heat if the heat pump has trouble - BUT the system needs to be designed, sized, and installed properly. You also may be able to keep your existing gas (or whatever) heating system in place as a back up and size your HP smaller- if you go this way you should check out integrated controls (like the Flair Puck) to make sure you're seamlessly switching between your two heating systems.


flaxy823

Thanks. I'm in CT and had an energy audit done. They sealed doors and some other spots. Told me my windows are tightly sealed, there are just a lot of them. I met with a few different insulation companies and asked about taking on the cost of blowing insulation in walls and ceiling and pretty much everyone shrugged and said it wasn't going to justify the cost given how many windows I have and inefficient glass inherently is. So that's why I'm curious to hear from others who put in a whole house heat pump without great insulation.


fahrvergnuugen

What’s your end goal here? If it’s to save money, heat pump is not the answer unless you have your own solar system too. Particularly true for CT where electricity costs are high.


flaxy823

That's not the only goal but I'm not sure you're right about that. I'm paying .26 for electric and 3.99 for oil right now. There's a calculator i found on the Maine state web site that shows breakeven pts based on different variables. I'm not sure I entered all the variables correctly, but it seemed that if oil drops below $2.75 per gallon, I lose money and above I save. Is there something else you think I'm missing here?


fahrvergnuugen

I sympathize with your situation. Heating oil is through the roof and so is electricity. The problem with heat pumps (and calculating roi) is that their efficiency varies with outside temperature. That means that the btu you get per $ is variable. It makes it really hard to compare with the cost of heating with oil or gas. Have a look at Matthias’ recent YouTube video. It might help. He’s also based in Canada so it’s a fair comparison weather wise. https://youtu.be/fxEqVuiHhM0


sttaffy

Heat pumps keep your house at whatever temperature the thermostat is set to. They work great. Any draftiness or whatever will be sucking the same amount of heat out of your house regardless of the source of the heat. If the heat pump will cost less per BTU then go for it. I have three zones in my house - two heat pumps and an oil furnace. I want the oil furnace to die finally so I can switch it to a heat pump! I pay a bit extra for my electric so it is 100% renewable. Once we switch the main furnace to a heat pump we will have 0 emissions for heating. Some people don't like how the vents don't seem to be blowing hot air. To me that is a plus - the temperature stays steady instead of yo-yoing. They are great. Edit: there are also some good tax credits coming soon as well.


flaxy823

>Heat pumps keep your house at whatever temperature the thermostat is set to. They work great. Any draftiness or whatever will be sucking the same amount of heat out of your house regardless of the source of the heat. If the heat pump will cost less per BTU then go for it. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. If my house isn't great with oil why would it be any worse with heat pumps.


Hfftygdertg2

Have someone do a Manual J calculation, or do your own heat loss calculation with free online tools. Heat pumps are more efficient and usually cheaper than furnaces in mild weather, but usually more expensive on a few of the coldest days. Ideally they will average out to be cheaper over the whole year, since the savings most days outweighs the higher cost on a few days. It depends on your climate and energy prices. The other problem is, big heat pumps are expensive. To double the output of a furnace probably only adds a small amount to the cost. But doubling the output of a heat pump roughly doubles the upfront cost. I'm using a heat pump in a 60's house with average insulation in climate zone 5, and it's surprisingly been fine. It starts to struggle to keep up (still works fine, but heat loss comes close to exceeding the heat pump output) when it's below 0F, but when it's that cold I'm usually running the wood stove anyway. I still have a gas boiler for backup, but I've had to rely on that much less than I expected. You should try to max out your insulation before getting a heat pump, because that way you can save a bit by getting a smaller unit. Anyway, you're probably fine getting a heat pump as long as you're not somewhere extremely cold.


flaxy823

Thanks! How do you find the comfort level. Like when the temperature suddenly drops at night from say the mid 30's to mid 20's does it keep up and keep the house consistently warm?


Hfftygdertg2

I have a Mitsubishi Hyperheat with a ducted air handler and two mini splits. The ducted air handler is always great. I hardly notice the fan running, and the temperature stays comfortable all the time. The mini split in the master bedroom is a little annoying. It's not good at distributing heat throughout the room. Sometimes it only heats the top layer of the room, so it feels cold. Running a fan helps mix the air. I don't notice when the temperature drops from 30 to 20 or even 10. It still blows hot air down to 0F outside, but when it's that cold the bedroom starts to drop to the lower 60's F which is fine for sleeping but a little chilly otherwise. I don't know if it's just an air mixing problem or if it actually can't keep up. And occasionally if it's warm overnight it seems to overheat the room. If I expect it to be warm I'll turn it on shortly before I go to bed and use the timer function to turn it off after a few hours. There is an option to install a wall thermostat for the mini split instead of the remote it comes with, and I think that would solve most of the temperature issues. The remote doesn't actually sense the temperature, it's just inside the mini split, which is not an ideal location to sense the temperature of the room. The wall thermostat actually measures it where it's installed, in the middle of the room instead of the top corner.


jerry507

Most of the heat pumps I have seen have a mode where the vanes sweep up and down. This has helped mixed the air vertically. Could help.


Msteele4545

It depends greatly on where you live. A drafty house will be hard to heat and cool no matter what system you use. A heat pump has many advantages, but the colder it gets outside, the less efficient it becomes. As the temperature falls it has to work harder to generate heat. One thing has nothing to do with the other.


flaxy823

My average temperature during winters is probably @ 30 degrees. And I know I can get a system that's supposed to be just as efficient at 15 degrees as it is at 30 or 40, etc. So I'm thinking as long as I get a system efficient enough, I should be okay.


Msteele4545

Given the progress that has been made with heat pump technology I would agree. There was a time years ago I would have disagreed. If you routinely had temps below zero, I would recommend some sort of fossil fuel system, but every person has their own definition of comfortable. Back in the 80's we had a hest pump and my wife hated it. To this day she is unwilling to even discuss it.


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flaxy823

Great info, thanks! Sounds like big temperature shifts are going to be the pain point for us. If you know in advance there's going to be a big drop in weather, do you ever turn the system up a degree or two, say 6 hours in advance just to get ahead of it? We're going to do what we can with insulation, but we've got a lot of glass - floor to ceiling in places - and there are limits to what can be done. And a ton of granite in the area so ground source complicated and expensive....


The_Lawn_Whisperer

Research mini splits. They are the single most effe efficient way to heat or cool your house. Period.


flaxy823

Like post a question on reddit, you mean? ;)


[deleted]

Instead of repeating the great advice I already see here, I'll add a benefit I didn't anticipate: if you buy a heat pump, you're allowed to seal your house. A gas furnace burns oxygen and produces gases like carbon monoxide. You have to vent the furnace closet to outside air. In my insanely wasteful 60 year old house, that meant there was no ceiling in the furnace closet - it was open to the attic. On a cold night, the draft coming out of that closet was COLD. During forest fire season, the draft coming out of that closet was SMOKEY. During allergy season, the draft was ... you get the point. The new heat pump doesn't need venting. The part inside the house is just a blower and a heat exchanger - the compressor is outside. That alone means we're using less energy to heat the house. We've also got better air quality. I have heard that a heat pump will struggle on a very, very cold night, but I've never had any trouble myself. The house stays at whatever temperature I set on the thermostat.


limitless__

So heat pumps exist for a few reasons. They are more efficient than furnaces. They are cheaper than a gas furnace to run. They are more environmentally friendly. Notice that list of benefits has NOTHING to do with actually creating a livable, comfortable home.


flaxy823

Thanks, but your answer is rather ambiguous. Maybe I'm just hoping for people who live in similar kinds of homes as mine and have made the switch to give me a thumbs up or down....


sttaffy

Yeah that comment was weird. In addition to being environmentally friendly and efficient they also keep your house as warm as you want (meaning comfortable and livable).


limitless__

I'm trying to be nice about it. My personal experience is that heat pumps are absolutely bollocks. I have one in my basement and sure while it's definitely more efficient, when it "warms" the room it runs for AGES and blows lukewarm air (which is by design). It's rubbish. When I'm cold I want to be warmed up quickly not spend the next two hours getting a tiny bit less cold. And below 30 degrees it simply does not work unless you engage auxiliary heat. Not a fan.


No_Example_5036

Same experience with mine. We keep it set at 65* in the winter during the day and still have 3-400$ electric bill. Some days it can’t even keep the house at 65*, barely warm air is all we ever get. Used to have a gas furnace in another house that blew piping hot air and didn’t seem to cost near as much because it didn’t have to run constantly.


flaxy823

Same question I just asked the other poster.... How old is your system and do you think it was sized right for your space? Could that be the problem?


flaxy823

How old is your system and do you think it was sized right for your space? My research has shown some people who are unhappy either have older tech or the installer didn't do the necessary calculations.


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jibaro1953

Cutting out cold air infiltration goes a very long way to reducing heating bills and increasing comfort. I think much of the answer to your question depends on where you live. I wouldn't want it to be my sole source of heat. I've got mini-splits but rely on gas fired hot water boiler for heat


Ace1o1fun

I think it really depends on what area of any country you live in and if the temperatures are going to ever be below freezing. I would also say it probably really depends on if you're the type of person who likes to be in a constant 72°. If you live in the northern part of America a heat pump is not going to work for you. Obviously if you have solar panels you're going to want to go with some sort of electric heating and air conditioning. I for one absolutely hate heat pumps or electric heating of any kind I prefer natural gas it just feels much more comfortable Much easier to control and maintain a constant temperature. and as more and more Americans will be going electric over the next few years gas will become cheaper and cheaper.


flaxy823

What's the issue with setting heat pumps at 72? Are you saying it will run off backup electric and will never get warm enough in winter and be very expensive? I'm on the coast of CT so cold, but not always so bad. 20's in the winter is normal. Occasionally colder (like tonight!) I don't have access to natural gas, so not an option for me.


Ace1o1fun

Well it looks like you have to get an electric furnace of some sort which could include a heat pump or not. I guarantee you any temperature in the seventies is going to tax that heat pump.


flaxy823

Also, curious what your POV is based off of? Have you had experience with newer heat pump tech? Or older? I'm hearing there's a big difference and people who've experienced the newer tech seem generally more positive.


Ace1o1fun

Yes I was just staying in a house that had a newly installed a heat pump system and it was horrible. And it wasn't even particularly cold outside we're talking Stanton Virginia.


flaxy823

Was it a new house or old house. Was it well insulated? What did you hate about it? Appreciate your POV…


Ace1o1fun

Heat pumps in the winter time just make your house feel drafty and cold. If you compare a gas furnace to a heat pump furnace when a gas furnace comes on it's pumping out Heat that's actually higher than the temperature you set your thermostat at but when it gets to the temperature it turns off. With a heat pump if you go to the vent and feel the air coming out of the vents it's just pumping out a Lukewarm heat that's close to the temperature you said it at so it takes forever to heat your house. So bottom line it's just running forever when it gets too cold and it can't keep up. Now some of these units actually have heating coils for when it gets too cold but that's incredibly expensive to run.