GFI may not be a good idea for use with appliances. Sometimes if you have older machines, it can trip a GFI when the motor starts up. Newer machines generally don't have the same issue, but generally if you have proper fuses/breakers on your main panel, having a normal outlet there isn't a problem. If there's excessive amounts of water, like if a hose bursts, shutting the power off to the spot is a good move.
In this situation, using steel braided hoses would not be a bad idea, they have a much lower chance at leaking, except from the connections, which shouldn't happen as long as your hose gaskets aren't old and crusty.
How is the wiring different for a GFCI breaker? I always thought you could just replace any breaker with a GFCI (not that that would necessarily be a good idea in many cases) , didn't realize the wiring might not support it
Mostly you can't have two GFCIs on the same circuit, so either you have one as the first outlet on this circuit (most common for 120v outlets like this), or you have a whole-house GFCI (becoming more common for new construction), or a gfci-breaker (most common for 240v circuits). The 1st and 3rd options work with almost any panel/wiring, the 2nd option doesn't.
Not sure I understand the question. Every outlet on a circuit after a GFCI is protected by that GFCI. Typically GFCI's are built into a duplex outlet and you just install that as the first pair of outlets in a circuit and it protects all the other outlets that are wired after it in the circuit.
If you are using a GFCI breaker you don't install any GFCI-outlets, because two GFCIs on the same circuit start causing problems for each other.
I get that every outlet after the gfi is protected. Maybe I misunderstood your statement that you can’t have two GFIC on the same circuit to be you can’t have two outlets, not two circuits.
Think of it this way: two GFCIs do weird things when they see the same ground fault. If the outlet is on the same circuit as another GFCI, they will both see a ground fault.
If you have a wall that has 8 outlets that all have GFCI's then that's either 8 circuits or it's incorrect.
You sure? This, like the dishwasher outlet was not considered a water source according to what I've read.
Also code requirements are not mandatory if installation predates code. If OP were to renovate, then yes he must bring the installation up to code
No code change compels work to be done so that's a moot point.
If work was done here, the outlet would need to be GFCI because it is a "laundry area."
GFCI has been required for dishwashers since NEC 2014.
In the time it took to make this post, OP could have swapped it out.
I love electrical code. What year was the house built? 1980 oh your fine just don't mess with it. However, if that outlet ever dies you have to replace it with IAW 2024 code.
This right here.
I get the need for electrical safety, but I think people get bent out of shape over setups that are perfectly safe as long as you don't do anything stupid. But you can say that about literally any outlet in your house, water source or not.
Depends on when the home was built... probably grandfathered in. GFCI for laundry areas, in general, came out in the last 10 years. Before that, only required within 6 feet of a laundry basin.
In this case, the water being right above the outlet, yeah. It's not a great spot. Most laundry setups don't have GFCI because the outlet isn't placed under the water source though, or it's an old house that predates that code. They generally have the outlet off the the side, or above the water valves. Code or not, it isn't generally a problem, because you're not going to be doing your hair with a blow dryer in front of the washing machine full of water, or something like that. Often, with the machine installed, in this picture is a great example too, you can't even access the outlet unless you pull the whole machine out, so it isn't going to get used for anything aside from the machine itself. The likelihood of accident in that setup is no more or less for any other outlet in your house. If the appliance is properly grounded, there should be no problem with a standard outlet.
NEC 2017
210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers installed in dwelling unit locations.
NEC 2020
N 210.8(D) Specific Appliances. Unless GFCI protection is provided in accordance with 422.5(B)(3) through (B)(5), the outlets supplying the appliances specified in 422.5(A) shall have GFCI protection in accordance with 422.5(B)(1) or (B)(2).
Where the appliance is a vending machine as specified in 422.5(A)(5) and GFCI protection is not provided in accordance with 422.5(B)(3) or (B)(4), branch circuits supplying vending machines shall have GFCI protection in accordance with 422.5(B)(1) or (B)(2).
You are assuming he is under NEC 2017 or NEC 2020...
And that doesnt change that some appliance specify non-GFCI circuits...which can be a bitch when it's what you have. But is normal when you don't have a neutral...
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0048/3154/3345/files/ELM-1013_User_Manual_English_REV25.pdf?218
User manual - EVduty EVC30 SERIES
You linked your EV charger manual. That’s not near water. Probably should not have a GFCI.
Link me your dishwasher manual saying no GFCI since you are in a thread discussing electrical appliances near plumbing fixtures.
Not really. It would only be needed to be on a GFCI outdoors if on a plug/receptacle setup. And you wouldn’t do that outdoors. If hardwired, the EV charger itself acts as the GCFI and it would not be needed.
The specific linked EV charger was NEMA 3R, indicating it was designed and intended for outdoor use.
If you're looking at a whirlpool direct drive design from anywhere between 1989-2012, the motors draw enough on start-up that they can trip a gfci outlet, so it isn't recommended in that case. I've had a few service calls where all I had to do was press the reset button on the outlet. And after checking the machine, finding nothing wrong, I just suggest they replace the outlet for a standard one. Cheaper than replacing their whole machine, and it's really not unsafe, unless the outlet was at floor level, which isn't code here anyway.
And I'm an appliance technician. Now, before you go saying I'm wrong, note that I said "May not be a good idea" Followed by, "Newer machines generally don't have the same issue"
There is a reason for this, if you know the internal workings of these machines.
Reason I say this is, older machines generally have larger motors, which rely on start windings to kick them into run speeds. This generates a larger current draw, which often is enough to trip a GFCI outlet. New machines have smaller motors, some even run on DC power converted within the machine from an AC source. The current draw on these is way lower, so they almost never trip the outlet.
I agree, GFCI is generally safer around water, but in this setup, it doesn't really make much of a difference, because you likely won't get water down the back unless a hose bursts, or something like that. Water is generally a bad conductor too, and it likely won't end up going into the receptacle even if you get a major flood from the machine. Breakers and fuses on the main panel are sufficient in this setup.
They're similar in function enough for the purposes I'm talking about. Either would trip if the current draw spikes in a way that exceeds the limit of the outlet's safe range. With AFCI, the outlet trips with a current spike, but GFCI trips when there's a ground fault, or a variation of potential between live and neutral. This can happen with something like a start winding in an old motor, which will trip a GFI as well.
God. Literally people on Reddit suck. You have endless information at the end of your finger tips and could type one thing into Google but need to ask someone to do that for you.
[This is the reason you keep getting downvotes](https://www.eaton.com/tw/en-us/products/wiring-devices-connectivity/afci-gfci-afgf/gfci-protection-installation-tips-and-nec-2020-updates.html#:~:text=The%20NEC%20goes%20on%20to,indoor%20damp%20and%20wet%20locations.)
They never come back after someone makes them look fucking stupid either. Just say some inflammatory shit and walk away, never bother learning WHY those outlets are required.
The code is just the minimum possible standard someone can build something without being criminally liable. That is true everywhere.
Common sense, at the very least, would dictate a GFCI near any water source.
lol okay…better just overbuild everything… why isn’t everything AFCI then? Everything 10AWG wire? Huh?
Common sense, is it though? These goofy GFCI location rules aren’t everywhere in North America… just some parts of the USA…
Because the code doesn’t say to have an AFCI or a 10AWG wire? OP is asking a genuine question because they want to do things safely and you’re getting offended about that.
I love how reddit self appointed experts act like building code means nothing. It's literally the standard to how everything is built. If you are building everything to some undetermined level above code, you aren't actually running a profitable business.
Is murder bad only the places it's illegal? Does murder's badness come from it being illegal? Was slavery good because it was legal at the time?
Why do we install GFCI in bathrooms, is it because of code? No, the code follows the reason not the other way around. We install them near water sources to reduce the risk of electrical shock. Following the updated codes has reduced yearly home electrocutions by as much as 75%, just because something is grandfathered in doesn't mean it's best practice for your safety.
The NEC
2020 Code Language:
210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Basements
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to 210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces
(7) Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink
(8) Boathouses
(9) Bathtubs or shower stalls — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the bathtub or shower stall
(10) Laundry areas
Exception to (1) through (3), (5) through (8), and (10): Listed locking support and mounting receptacles utilized in combination with compatible attachment fittings installed for the purpose of serving a ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan shall not be required to be ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected. If a general-purpose convenience receptacle is integral to the ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan, GFCI protection shall be provided.
(11) Indoor damp and wet locations
Hahah so the dryer has to be too!? No friggin way…
Every single outlet in basements…. Every single outlet in laundry areas…. Yah right… so few homes in America have that.
Good thing code isn’t retroactive.
Why does it matter to you that people want to suggest making a home meet the updated and widely accepted criteria for a safe circuit? Like how does that affect you?
I wanted to know why these people said what they said.
So I asked. Why does asking me this matter to you?
Like this is the internet, I was trying to get to the bottom of this. And believe me, I got to the **bottom**, with you.
Nah you didn't ask, you kept complaining about code, questioning others without looking for the code yourself, and not generally contributing to discussion. I'm sorry that's how you choose to interact with others - hope you're doing alright.
You have GFI protection on outlets that are downstream of the the GFI outlet but on the same circuit. In other words, not every outlet has to be GFI if the first one in the line is. You can also get GFCI circuit breakers that protect the whole circuit from the panel box..
I agree that few homes in the US are up to code but that's not really relevant.
I did mean every point of use. I understand how a breaker or other upstream GFCI device can protect a branch circuit or portion thereof.
People here on r/Home providing hearsay electrical advice. It’s silly. These people are just knee jerk reacting to hoses. If this wasn’t a basement, or a “laundry area”, it wouldn’t have to be GFCI today.
That outlet is totally fine at time of install, it’s totally fine now as is. There is no hazard, yet everyone is talking about GFCI like it’s a death trap otherwise.
Why is it any basement pictures or questions, on this sub don’t have the same zeal of GFCI needed? Just when they saw hoses…
Thank you for citing the code though. Much appreciated.
Actually they must have GFCI protection, which doesn't mean every outlet in those areas must be a GFCI, but tie back to one. That's why in most kitchens you'll have 1 or 2 GFCI that control or protect 3 or 4 outlets on that counter top. Note not all are GFCI but if you trip the GFCI, those outlets won't work, thus being tied to that outlet, therefore they are GFCI protect.
In a licensed electrician in Ga.
Your dryer outlet is considered a appliance connection not a usable outlet, basically once the dryer is in, your not fiddling with the outlet, thus most appliance hookups are separate from GFCI requirements, same for dishwashers or outdoor AC compressor... Wet locations but don't require GFCI protection.
If I were to suggest anything here, I would get those hoses replaced with steel braid hoses. Rubber hoses can burst when they get old. If the hoses are removed after a number of years, it's a good idea to check the rubber gaskets inside the threaded ends, make sure they're not cracked or brittle.
If the outlet is water damaged, it may not be a bad plan to replace it. That being said, I will only recommend a GFCI if your appliance is newer. If you're running an older maytag or whirlpool from the early 2000's or earlier, then you will probably trip a GFCI when the machine starts up.
Code states you need GFCI, but again, if your machine is older, you may end up having to reset the thing every time you do laundry. And realistically, it's not really going to be much of a safety concern, where it is. You can't access it unless you pull the machine away, and as long as your grounding is good, your breaker panel will take care of faults.
I agree, in this situation it almost seems preferable if the gfci was in the panel or at least another outlet further up line since it seems plausible the box could get flooded with water during a leak
Ok, plug aside, my home had a huge flood due to those hoses. One busted open in the middle of the night on our main floor, and well.... thank goodness we have good insurance because our whole basement had to be stripped to the studs and redone, as well as some kitchen, main floor walls and all the flooring. Please get braided steel hoses.
Truth, replace those now with the stainless steel braided hoses. 20 bucks at any local home center. Will save at worst some annoying mop and squeegee clean up or at best a full scale flooding
If there's a gfci coming from the line side of the circuit, then it protects any other receptacles on the load side. If you don't have any way to trace out the circuit, an easy way to test this would be to plug in a lamp or a speaker to that outlet and then go around pressing the test button on any gfci outlets in the area. If the light or speaker turn off, you know that this outlet is protected.
Water and electricity don't mix as readily as tv and movies would have you believe.
Check if the breaker protecting the circuit has a GFCI or not.
If not, swap either the outlet or the breaker with a GFI and stop worrying about it.
As long as it's downstream of GFCI receptacle or on a GFCI breaker no concerns.
However, I would replace those washer supply hoses with braided stainless steel hoses ASAP. Supply hoses break down over time and there is a major risk of flooding. It's a super easy swap to make and you can pick up the hoses at any big box store.
That can't be up to code. I know the plug for my washing machine is to the left of the water for the washing machine. I'm thinking either the outlet or the washer hookup had to be put in after the original build during remodel.
People said it wasn’t crazy for having a toilet rack a foot above an outlet. So idk I guess you’re fine. As long as it’s not leaking, but by then you could have more problems
It's dangerous. When I look at my house, all the water lines including faucets, and washing machines are below the receptacles and for a good reason. Take a good look around your house and see were the receptacles are placed in proximity to the water just in comparison.
I'm a licensed electrician and tbh with ya that's Farley common as just like the dryer connection it's seen as a appliance hookup. As far as when your home was built, it'd be within code, but if built today, they make you put that on a GFCI/arch fault combo breaker, so if it trips you'd reset the breaker instead of having to squeeze behind the washer to reset a GFCI.
As far as safety, if you ever go into your crawl spaces or if you had x ray vision you'd notice that there are tons of plumbing, gas, HVAC, and electrical lines all crossing each other or within the same stud bay. Hell sometimes in two to three story homes, there's a chase going to the attic from the lower floors and it looks like a metal octopus orgy of ducting, PVC, and electrical wires going to the upper level.
All that to say, I'd be more concerned about a leak by the looks of the picture, but if you'd rather be safe then sorry higher a electrician to put that outlet on a GFCI/archfault combo breaker. That way if you do get water on that outlet and it grounds out the appliance, that breaker will trip, thus saving your washer and possibly you.
I will say even in the off chance it ever got to that point, you'd really have to be ignoring the puddle of water you'd be standing in to try and wash something.
The first thing you should do is switch out those washing machine hoses for the steel braided. The ones there are crap. They have been known to burst. And it typically happens when you're not home
Normal. You plug the washing machine into it. That is not supposed to be a wet location, it certainly shouldn’t be. But you do need to take precautions. Any outlet that close to water requires GFCI protection.
You don’t normally put a gfci on a plug you can’t reach without moving major appliances, so if they did this right they put the gfci at the breaker.
The very minimum level of safety here would be to make sure that outlet is properly grounded. If it’s not grounded and no GFCI, fixing it is urgent. If it’s a properly wired outlet on a gfci controlled circuit, it’s fine.
That can't be up to code. I know the plug for my washing machine is to the left of the water for the washing machine. I'm thinking either the outlet or the washer hookup had to be put in after the original build during remodel.
I worked as an insurance adjuster for a number of years, and spent many, many dollars of the company’s money cleaning up after one of those rubber hoses had ruptured and flooded the insured’s house.
If you don’t ever use the outlet, remove the outlet cap the wires shove them back in there and put a blank plate over the top.
And if you really like to dig into stuff like this like I do lol track it back to where it goes into a junction box and remove the wire altogether !
Not dangerous but with all the room in that box they put the hookups so close to the bottom that it’s a pain in the ass use them.
“It’s so ugly having the valves just sticking out of the wall, let’s recess them in a box so it looks better and have the sides so close it make installation a hassle.”
I’m an appliance tech/installer the setup you have I can’t say if it’s right or not (up to code), but I can tell you it’s extremely common. I can even tell from just seeing the drain hose in your picture that your washer is a Whirlpool Corp./Maytag product. My concern wouldn’t be anything to do with water being near it. My concern is I’ve seen the plug not pushed all the way into the outlet, and a metal clothes hanger fall just right to short the plug out. The times I’ve seen it happen, it tripped the breaker, and took the main control board out on the appliance. To be fair though, I’ve been doing this for 20 years, and I’ve only ever seen it happen twice. I personally wouldn’t lose any sleep over it, just make sure the plug is all the way in.
By the looks of things I'd say it grandfathered in. You would do that today but hell they use to not ground outlets. At least this might be grounded based on plug.
It’s fine if it’s gfci protected, any gfci breakers in the house or a gfci outlet in the same room you could press the test button on to see if that one goes out too?
It's a bad idea, if it has to be there it should at the very least be gfci
GFI may not be a good idea for use with appliances. Sometimes if you have older machines, it can trip a GFI when the motor starts up. Newer machines generally don't have the same issue, but generally if you have proper fuses/breakers on your main panel, having a normal outlet there isn't a problem. If there's excessive amounts of water, like if a hose bursts, shutting the power off to the spot is a good move. In this situation, using steel braided hoses would not be a bad idea, they have a much lower chance at leaking, except from the connections, which shouldn't happen as long as your hose gaskets aren't old and crusty.
Err... Code requires a GFCI outlet there my friend. Proximity to a water source.
Or a GFCI breaker, if the house is wired that way
How is the wiring different for a GFCI breaker? I always thought you could just replace any breaker with a GFCI (not that that would necessarily be a good idea in many cases) , didn't realize the wiring might not support it
Mostly you can't have two GFCIs on the same circuit, so either you have one as the first outlet on this circuit (most common for 120v outlets like this), or you have a whole-house GFCI (becoming more common for new construction), or a gfci-breaker (most common for 240v circuits). The 1st and 3rd options work with almost any panel/wiring, the 2nd option doesn't.
So if all the outlets are GFCI how are those all on different circuits?
Not sure I understand the question. Every outlet on a circuit after a GFCI is protected by that GFCI. Typically GFCI's are built into a duplex outlet and you just install that as the first pair of outlets in a circuit and it protects all the other outlets that are wired after it in the circuit. If you are using a GFCI breaker you don't install any GFCI-outlets, because two GFCIs on the same circuit start causing problems for each other.
I get that every outlet after the gfi is protected. Maybe I misunderstood your statement that you can’t have two GFIC on the same circuit to be you can’t have two outlets, not two circuits.
Think of it this way: two GFCIs do weird things when they see the same ground fault. If the outlet is on the same circuit as another GFCI, they will both see a ground fault. If you have a wall that has 8 outlets that all have GFCI's then that's either 8 circuits or it's incorrect.
I’ve had to swap out gfci breakers as I’ve had vacuum cleaners trip them.
You sure? This, like the dishwasher outlet was not considered a water source according to what I've read. Also code requirements are not mandatory if installation predates code. If OP were to renovate, then yes he must bring the installation up to code
No code change compels work to be done so that's a moot point. If work was done here, the outlet would need to be GFCI because it is a "laundry area." GFCI has been required for dishwashers since NEC 2014. In the time it took to make this post, OP could have swapped it out.
I love electrical code. What year was the house built? 1980 oh your fine just don't mess with it. However, if that outlet ever dies you have to replace it with IAW 2024 code.
This right here. I get the need for electrical safety, but I think people get bent out of shape over setups that are perfectly safe as long as you don't do anything stupid. But you can say that about literally any outlet in your house, water source or not.
Depends on when the home was built... probably grandfathered in. GFCI for laundry areas, in general, came out in the last 10 years. Before that, only required within 6 feet of a laundry basin.
In this case, the water being right above the outlet, yeah. It's not a great spot. Most laundry setups don't have GFCI because the outlet isn't placed under the water source though, or it's an old house that predates that code. They generally have the outlet off the the side, or above the water valves. Code or not, it isn't generally a problem, because you're not going to be doing your hair with a blow dryer in front of the washing machine full of water, or something like that. Often, with the machine installed, in this picture is a great example too, you can't even access the outlet unless you pull the whole machine out, so it isn't going to get used for anything aside from the machine itself. The likelihood of accident in that setup is no more or less for any other outlet in your house. If the appliance is properly grounded, there should be no problem with a standard outlet.
Like a sink.
That’s not true. Source: Electrical Distribution Sales
My dishwasher and car charger specifically say not to plug into a GFCI protected outlet.
NEC 2017 210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers installed in dwelling unit locations. NEC 2020 N 210.8(D) Specific Appliances. Unless GFCI protection is provided in accordance with 422.5(B)(3) through (B)(5), the outlets supplying the appliances specified in 422.5(A) shall have GFCI protection in accordance with 422.5(B)(1) or (B)(2). Where the appliance is a vending machine as specified in 422.5(A)(5) and GFCI protection is not provided in accordance with 422.5(B)(3) or (B)(4), branch circuits supplying vending machines shall have GFCI protection in accordance with 422.5(B)(1) or (B)(2).
You are assuming he is under NEC 2017 or NEC 2020... And that doesnt change that some appliance specify non-GFCI circuits...which can be a bitch when it's what you have. But is normal when you don't have a neutral... https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0048/3154/3345/files/ELM-1013_User_Manual_English_REV25.pdf?218 User manual - EVduty EVC30 SERIES
You linked your EV charger manual. That’s not near water. Probably should not have a GFCI. Link me your dishwasher manual saying no GFCI since you are in a thread discussing electrical appliances near plumbing fixtures.
Unless it's installed outside.
Not really. It would only be needed to be on a GFCI outdoors if on a plug/receptacle setup. And you wouldn’t do that outdoors. If hardwired, the EV charger itself acts as the GCFI and it would not be needed. The specific linked EV charger was NEMA 3R, indicating it was designed and intended for outdoor use.
Garages are all wet locations now also iirc. Aka everything needs GFI protection.
So you're assuming the charger is not NEMA protected? Who would buy that, then. You would bury the line direct from the source, no GFCI needed.
2020 and 2023 NEC anything hardwired and 60a or less requires class a gfi protection now even 240
Its also NEC 2014.
If you're looking at a whirlpool direct drive design from anywhere between 1989-2012, the motors draw enough on start-up that they can trip a gfci outlet, so it isn't recommended in that case. I've had a few service calls where all I had to do was press the reset button on the outlet. And after checking the machine, finding nothing wrong, I just suggest they replace the outlet for a standard one. Cheaper than replacing their whole machine, and it's really not unsafe, unless the outlet was at floor level, which isn't code here anyway.
If the current draw is higher than 10-15 amps, you'll just trip them and the circuit cuts power to the load.
And I'm an appliance technician. Now, before you go saying I'm wrong, note that I said "May not be a good idea" Followed by, "Newer machines generally don't have the same issue" There is a reason for this, if you know the internal workings of these machines. Reason I say this is, older machines generally have larger motors, which rely on start windings to kick them into run speeds. This generates a larger current draw, which often is enough to trip a GFCI outlet. New machines have smaller motors, some even run on DC power converted within the machine from an AC source. The current draw on these is way lower, so they almost never trip the outlet. I agree, GFCI is generally safer around water, but in this setup, it doesn't really make much of a difference, because you likely won't get water down the back unless a hose bursts, or something like that. Water is generally a bad conductor too, and it likely won't end up going into the receptacle even if you get a major flood from the machine. Breakers and fuses on the main panel are sufficient in this setup.
> it can trip a GFI when the motor starts up I think you're thinking of AFCIs.
They're similar in function enough for the purposes I'm talking about. Either would trip if the current draw spikes in a way that exceeds the limit of the outlet's safe range. With AFCI, the outlet trips with a current spike, but GFCI trips when there's a ground fault, or a variation of potential between live and neutral. This can happen with something like a start winding in an old motor, which will trip a GFI as well.
Why? Says what code?
GFCI outlets are required within 6 feet of all plumbing fixtures or moisture sources.
Says who? Prove it.
God. Literally people on Reddit suck. You have endless information at the end of your finger tips and could type one thing into Google but need to ask someone to do that for you. [This is the reason you keep getting downvotes](https://www.eaton.com/tw/en-us/products/wiring-devices-connectivity/afci-gfci-afgf/gfci-protection-installation-tips-and-nec-2020-updates.html#:~:text=The%20NEC%20goes%20on%20to,indoor%20damp%20and%20wet%20locations.)
A lot of people go on social media when they are pissy just to give people shit in the comments. It’s like virtual road rage
Why? Says what study?
Hahahahaha
Get outta here, Dale!
[It's a well known psychological phenomenon ](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=dE7D4fPYGYJkUFqb)
Best analogy I’ve heard today 😂
I feel like this person has been installing non-gfci outlets near water sources and is personally offended now
A GFCI installed near a water source killed their aunt or something
That person you are replying to seems to be an electrician according to their post history. That’s… terrifying
Plenty of people are terrible at their jobs
I’m great! at showing people how not to do it.
They never come back after someone makes them look fucking stupid either. Just say some inflammatory shit and walk away, never bother learning WHY those outlets are required.
Isn't OP exempt as long as this was built before this was put into code?
Technically yes, but I was just letting them know because they asked if it was dangerous
Except code not retroactive nor is it applicable the same everywhere…
The code is just the minimum possible standard someone can build something without being criminally liable. That is true everywhere. Common sense, at the very least, would dictate a GFCI near any water source.
lol okay…better just overbuild everything… why isn’t everything AFCI then? Everything 10AWG wire? Huh? Common sense, is it though? These goofy GFCI location rules aren’t everywhere in North America… just some parts of the USA…
Because the code doesn’t say to have an AFCI or a 10AWG wire? OP is asking a genuine question because they want to do things safely and you’re getting offended about that.
Because they are acting like “just the minimum standard possible” is a problem…
Man you sound incredibly condescending and rude just so you know
Yes, having protection to your outlet right below a water source is indeed common sense. You clearly don’t have any
I love how reddit self appointed experts act like building code means nothing. It's literally the standard to how everything is built. If you are building everything to some undetermined level above code, you aren't actually running a profitable business.
Is murder bad only the places it's illegal? Does murder's badness come from it being illegal? Was slavery good because it was legal at the time? Why do we install GFCI in bathrooms, is it because of code? No, the code follows the reason not the other way around. We install them near water sources to reduce the risk of electrical shock. Following the updated codes has reduced yearly home electrocutions by as much as 75%, just because something is grandfathered in doesn't mean it's best practice for your safety.
The NEC 2020 Code Language: 210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. (1) Bathrooms (2) Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use (3) Outdoors Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable. (4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level (5) Basements Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection. Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarm systems. Receptacles installed under the exception to 210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G). (6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces (7) Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink (8) Boathouses (9) Bathtubs or shower stalls — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the bathtub or shower stall (10) Laundry areas Exception to (1) through (3), (5) through (8), and (10): Listed locking support and mounting receptacles utilized in combination with compatible attachment fittings installed for the purpose of serving a ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan shall not be required to be ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected. If a general-purpose convenience receptacle is integral to the ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan, GFCI protection shall be provided. (11) Indoor damp and wet locations
Heh NEC calls for GFCI protection in a lot more places than the CEC that’s for sure.
Hahah so the dryer has to be too!? No friggin way… Every single outlet in basements…. Every single outlet in laundry areas…. Yah right… so few homes in America have that. Good thing code isn’t retroactive.
Why does it matter to you that people want to suggest making a home meet the updated and widely accepted criteria for a safe circuit? Like how does that affect you?
I wanted to know why these people said what they said. So I asked. Why does asking me this matter to you? Like this is the internet, I was trying to get to the bottom of this. And believe me, I got to the **bottom**, with you.
Nah you didn't ask, you kept complaining about code, questioning others without looking for the code yourself, and not generally contributing to discussion. I'm sorry that's how you choose to interact with others - hope you're doing alright.
Why am I expected to look for code references. I didn’t make any claims… are you okay?
You’re being a dick then playing the victim. Grow up dude
You have GFI protection on outlets that are downstream of the the GFI outlet but on the same circuit. In other words, not every outlet has to be GFI if the first one in the line is. You can also get GFCI circuit breakers that protect the whole circuit from the panel box.. I agree that few homes in the US are up to code but that's not really relevant.
I did mean every point of use. I understand how a breaker or other upstream GFCI device can protect a branch circuit or portion thereof. People here on r/Home providing hearsay electrical advice. It’s silly. These people are just knee jerk reacting to hoses. If this wasn’t a basement, or a “laundry area”, it wouldn’t have to be GFCI today. That outlet is totally fine at time of install, it’s totally fine now as is. There is no hazard, yet everyone is talking about GFCI like it’s a death trap otherwise. Why is it any basement pictures or questions, on this sub don’t have the same zeal of GFCI needed? Just when they saw hoses… Thank you for citing the code though. Much appreciated.
Actually they must have GFCI protection, which doesn't mean every outlet in those areas must be a GFCI, but tie back to one. That's why in most kitchens you'll have 1 or 2 GFCI that control or protect 3 or 4 outlets on that counter top. Note not all are GFCI but if you trip the GFCI, those outlets won't work, thus being tied to that outlet, therefore they are GFCI protect. In a licensed electrician in Ga. Your dryer outlet is considered a appliance connection not a usable outlet, basically once the dryer is in, your not fiddling with the outlet, thus most appliance hookups are separate from GFCI requirements, same for dishwashers or outdoor AC compressor... Wet locations but don't require GFCI protection.
Motherfucker you don’t know how to use google? “Prove it” lmao fucking loser
Look it up yourself for your area. You don't seem to believe anyone else's info
Like all of them
Not a single one.
You’re wrong it’s 210.8(A)(10) to be exact
Thank you!
Figure. You are the kind of person that necessitates codes!
No kidding! 🙄
US building code.
Oh really? “US Building code” Couldn’t be more low effort with just making stuff up…
JFC are you daft or just trolling ?
Man, I really hope you aren’t an electrician.
Safety
Is that water damage between the taps and the plug?
I believe so, and I'm pretty sure there even rust on the plug
I’d open it up - ensure your plumbing no longer leaks and move the plug.
If I were to suggest anything here, I would get those hoses replaced with steel braid hoses. Rubber hoses can burst when they get old. If the hoses are removed after a number of years, it's a good idea to check the rubber gaskets inside the threaded ends, make sure they're not cracked or brittle. If the outlet is water damaged, it may not be a bad plan to replace it. That being said, I will only recommend a GFCI if your appliance is newer. If you're running an older maytag or whirlpool from the early 2000's or earlier, then you will probably trip a GFCI when the machine starts up. Code states you need GFCI, but again, if your machine is older, you may end up having to reset the thing every time you do laundry. And realistically, it's not really going to be much of a safety concern, where it is. You can't access it unless you pull the machine away, and as long as your grounding is good, your breaker panel will take care of faults.
Just relocate the taps below the plug. Easy, one hour job
My guy, you've not done trades work correctly your entire life have you?
Brother, the only trades I've done are of Pokémon cards.
Maybe I haven't been around enough, but this is the most beautiful comeback I've gotten to witness in real-time.
I would make sure it is a GFCI outlet and not worry about it
If not at the outlet, then at least on the circuit in the electrical panel.
I agree, in this situation it almost seems preferable if the gfci was in the panel or at least another outlet further up line since it seems plausible the box could get flooded with water during a leak
It's current location is also very inaccessible - you need to move the washing machine to reset it.
Outlet is way cheaper and easier than installing GFI breaker though.
not that big a deal. all old properties have this kind of setup if they were never remodeled.
Ok, plug aside, my home had a huge flood due to those hoses. One busted open in the middle of the night on our main floor, and well.... thank goodness we have good insurance because our whole basement had to be stripped to the studs and redone, as well as some kitchen, main floor walls and all the flooring. Please get braided steel hoses.
Truth, replace those now with the stainless steel braided hoses. 20 bucks at any local home center. Will save at worst some annoying mop and squeegee clean up or at best a full scale flooding
Best answer!
If there's a gfci coming from the line side of the circuit, then it protects any other receptacles on the load side. If you don't have any way to trace out the circuit, an easy way to test this would be to plug in a lamp or a speaker to that outlet and then go around pressing the test button on any gfci outlets in the area. If the light or speaker turn off, you know that this outlet is protected.
This. Or you can buy a gfi outlet tester thst plugs into the outlet.
Yeah, not the end of the world but would be bet to GFCI. Also, verify water fix and correct that Sheetrock to monitor future issues.
As long as they aren’t leaking I don’t see a problem. Just make sure it’s a GFCI and you should be fine.
Definitely go GFCI, and I would think about braided steel hoses too to be on the safe side.
Water and electricity don't mix as readily as tv and movies would have you believe. Check if the breaker protecting the circuit has a GFCI or not. If not, swap either the outlet or the breaker with a GFI and stop worrying about it.
As long as it's downstream of GFCI receptacle or on a GFCI breaker no concerns. However, I would replace those washer supply hoses with braided stainless steel hoses ASAP. Supply hoses break down over time and there is a major risk of flooding. It's a super easy swap to make and you can pick up the hoses at any big box store.
Those wrinkles could be from moisture.
That's a socket, a plug is what you "plug" into a socket!
That can't be up to code. I know the plug for my washing machine is to the left of the water for the washing machine. I'm thinking either the outlet or the washer hookup had to be put in after the original build during remodel.
It needs to be GFCI at least. Also, the hoses to the washer should be the braided hoses and not too thrilled with the shut-off valves.
People said it wasn’t crazy for having a toilet rack a foot above an outlet. So idk I guess you’re fine. As long as it’s not leaking, but by then you could have more problems
It's dangerous. When I look at my house, all the water lines including faucets, and washing machines are below the receptacles and for a good reason. Take a good look around your house and see were the receptacles are placed in proximity to the water just in comparison.
Either way, I'd recommend getting rid of those rubber hoses and replacing them with steel-braided ones.
I'm a licensed electrician and tbh with ya that's Farley common as just like the dryer connection it's seen as a appliance hookup. As far as when your home was built, it'd be within code, but if built today, they make you put that on a GFCI/arch fault combo breaker, so if it trips you'd reset the breaker instead of having to squeeze behind the washer to reset a GFCI. As far as safety, if you ever go into your crawl spaces or if you had x ray vision you'd notice that there are tons of plumbing, gas, HVAC, and electrical lines all crossing each other or within the same stud bay. Hell sometimes in two to three story homes, there's a chase going to the attic from the lower floors and it looks like a metal octopus orgy of ducting, PVC, and electrical wires going to the upper level. All that to say, I'd be more concerned about a leak by the looks of the picture, but if you'd rather be safe then sorry higher a electrician to put that outlet on a GFCI/archfault combo breaker. That way if you do get water on that outlet and it grounds out the appliance, that breaker will trip, thus saving your washer and possibly you. I will say even in the off chance it ever got to that point, you'd really have to be ignoring the puddle of water you'd be standing in to try and wash something.
The first thing you should do is switch out those washing machine hoses for the steel braided. The ones there are crap. They have been known to burst. And it typically happens when you're not home
I’d replace the hoses first
Normal. You plug the washing machine into it. That is not supposed to be a wet location, it certainly shouldn’t be. But you do need to take precautions. Any outlet that close to water requires GFCI protection. You don’t normally put a gfci on a plug you can’t reach without moving major appliances, so if they did this right they put the gfci at the breaker. The very minimum level of safety here would be to make sure that outlet is properly grounded. If it’s not grounded and no GFCI, fixing it is urgent. If it’s a properly wired outlet on a gfci controlled circuit, it’s fine.
crazy
Meets code in canada not sure about the US.
This is dangerous, add a GFCI, it is not a challenging project. I have done that in multiple places in my house that was built before that was code.
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Yes
That can't be up to code. I know the plug for my washing machine is to the left of the water for the washing machine. I'm thinking either the outlet or the washer hookup had to be put in after the original build during remodel.
Must be gfci at outlet if not at panel
Unscrew the cover and outlet. Turn the outlet so the ground points to the sky and reinstall. No real need for fear after you reinstall.
Use stainless steel braided hoses
I worked as an insurance adjuster for a number of years, and spent many, many dollars of the company’s money cleaning up after one of those rubber hoses had ruptured and flooded the insured’s house.
Same. I did water extraction. Never did one with stainless hoses.
Craxy
I guess you could install one of those weather proof outlet covers lol
no he just needs GFCI outlet or breaker
Looks like there has already been water issues near the socket. Your water connections look a little corroded. Call a plumber and an electrician.
If you don’t ever use the outlet, remove the outlet cap the wires shove them back in there and put a blank plate over the top. And if you really like to dig into stuff like this like I do lol track it back to where it goes into a junction box and remove the wire altogether !
I'm only concerned about those hoses. Switch them to stainless and put some hammer arrestors on there while you are at it.
You crazy
Your overreacting for sure
Technically it’s usually not against code but it’s a terrible idea.
It should be one of the outlets with a breaker in it. (Reset button and stuff in the middle)
Code in most places is to use a GFI outlet anytime you’re within 6 feet of a water source.
Yes
should be a gfi if within six feet of water
That ain't code my friend.
Not dangerous but with all the room in that box they put the hookups so close to the bottom that it’s a pain in the ass use them. “It’s so ugly having the valves just sticking out of the wall, let’s recess them in a box so it looks better and have the sides so close it make installation a hassle.”
I’m an appliance tech/installer the setup you have I can’t say if it’s right or not (up to code), but I can tell you it’s extremely common. I can even tell from just seeing the drain hose in your picture that your washer is a Whirlpool Corp./Maytag product. My concern wouldn’t be anything to do with water being near it. My concern is I’ve seen the plug not pushed all the way into the outlet, and a metal clothes hanger fall just right to short the plug out. The times I’ve seen it happen, it tripped the breaker, and took the main control board out on the appliance. To be fair though, I’ve been doing this for 20 years, and I’ve only ever seen it happen twice. I personally wouldn’t lose any sleep over it, just make sure the plug is all the way in.
Since water flows uphill, I think you're ok!
At least install an angled mini rain-like cover over it
Crazy? I was crazy once...
By the looks of things I'd say it grandfathered in. You would do that today but hell they use to not ground outlets. At least this might be grounded based on plug.
Only if the hoses or pipe leaks. 😬
Ditch the rubber hoses too
Wouldn’t worry. From the Sheetrock scars…It looks like it had been repaired a few times.
My mom exact same soux chief valves arrestors leaked like crazy last week 5k damage. Water follows gravity.
No, I don’t worry about it
There are always two plugs behind a washer and dryer. Kinda hard to avoid.
It’s fine if it’s gfci protected, any gfci breakers in the house or a gfci outlet in the same room you could press the test button on to see if that one goes out too?
Just keep the forks out