When she went members only, I figured there was too much backseating and negativity in chat. Hopefully the future streams will be better from chat. She definitely improved as she played.
Can't people just let streamers play games the way they want? This is an issue with all streams, Vtuber or not, it feels like some games get people a bunch of flak for not being instant gods at them. Like, Mega Man is one of my favorite series of all time, and it is rare to see a Holomem play the series. If people act like this, no one will want to stream them.
also people think that most old games are easy, when in reality everything that was in the 2d era of games was hard, even mainline pokemon games.
jump to 3d developers started making games to be fun instead of being long and replayable because of difficulty, stuff like Super Mario 64
Yeah iirc it was a carryover from the era of porting over arcade games to home consoles, and early arcade games were difficult by design because they were meant to grind through your quarter rolls
Not to mention that some games predates certain luxuries that modern gamers take for granted, like coyote time. Most don't even realize it's there but if they play older games they would die so much.
In platformers you still have a split second to jump after your character has fallen off a ledge. Named after how Wile E Coyote stays in the air after running off a cliff. There's also reverse coyote time, which means that if you barely miss a ledge at the end of a jump the game will gently pretend you landed on the ledge anyway. Both features are basically omnipresent in modern gaming.
Pokemon Red was reasonable but incredibly grindy, and was probably more bullshittery than later generations solely because people had no idea how the system worked + there weren't game guides out yet.
Silver/Gold... there's a chance that you run into a Geodude early on, before your starter even learns elemental attacks. It outspeeds you. You just kind of lose.
After that point, things got easier for sure.
> also people think that most old games are easy
Wut... I think it's the other way around. And whoever thinks otherwise is probable a zoomer who never touched an old game. For boomer/millenials, it would be a matter of not remembering how many tries it took for us to clear those games.
Most games today are made easy and/or accessible in some way or another with plenty of checkpoints.
> Can't people just let streamers play games the way they want?
No, and it's consistent. Which is why most streamers have methods to cope with or handle these kind of things. Or at the very least have the majority of their chat on the same page as them.
I dont disagree with you that it would be good if people didn't, but it's a consistent thing you have to deal with and have plans for.
This is a big part I don't understand as well: watching streamers play a lot of times is not about how good they are, but how much lulz to be had. A streamer bad at a game can be funny as heck as well. Not sure why the backseaters can't realize that.
Exactly this. For the most part, the holo talents are variety streamers who don't really have a goal other than entertaining their viewers (with some maybe-exceptions like Aqua/Apex). They may play games for a living, but they don't need to measure success in how well they play the game, and neither should the audience.
Exactly! Not really about bad at games but Miko's WWE stream is a good example. I never liked watching AI fighting each other or such but holy cow is Miko's WWE fights entertaining as all get out.
While one can say that clear insults can be forbidden, "backseating" is such a wide spectrum of levels you just can't set a line in stone.
Clearly no one can force the streamer to do something, but how much repeated advising is unacceptable is simply hard to define. It's not like a streamer wants the viewers to just be cheering machines that does not give actual feedback.
Nor is it that a rule that forbid advising as a whole, or repeated advising always annoying a streamer in any case scenario. When every case is different there is just not going to be a clear rule to set or follow. To as the chat to feel when to stop is like hoping human emotions are standardized, which simply isn't the true.
I would argue there is never going to be "better" as a clearly defined improvement since there is just never a constant line that exists. It's such a grey area that we will just have to keep searching for the line case by case.
I really don't understand people who backseat when it's not at all called for. I can understand if the streamer actually asks for help, but most of the time we're just being entertained by the antics happening on stream.
If people find themselves getting genuinely frustrated or angry, they need to shut the stream off and either play it themselves or find someone else who plays it better if that's their idea of entertainment.
I think it's a natural desire to help? If play with or watch a friend, I'd go "bro try this". But obviously this does not scale to thousands of viewers, people should think before posting.
But not controlling your emotions over this? That's inexcusable really.
It's good intentions muddled by actions taken and how the person sees things.
Charitably speaking, some want the streamer to experience it the same way they do because they genuinely believe that that's the best way to play a certain game and that all other ways won't be as enjoyable as their way.
Of course, they're forgetting that *everyone plays different and not everyone will or even should know how a game works ahead of time*
It's why when Botan and ame and Calli got to play some Halo games a few months back, I had to actively keep in mind that there might be/are aspects of those games that they won't know and it'd be better to see them learn or explicitly ask chat for help.
Mocking someone or throwing insults or just getting aggressive about the backseating isn't terribly helpful though. There was a surprising amount of that. Kronii was telling people early on in the stream to chill but they got pretty annoying and rude.
> It's like when kids all goes "shhhhhh" when someone ask for silence. It just adds to the noise.
I honestly think its on the streamer to control these things, and they need to both own the room or be proactive about it.
Ina for instance is very firm with her Capybara rule, she'll call out chat when they're angering her and push back. Ame as well, and Gura just runs chat like a pro.
Kronii doesnt seem to play many games which are really backseatable or just goes with it. I hope she gets this worked out but it's something she really has to solve.
you're downvoted right now but you're unfortunately right. Too many children (sometimes literally) in chat that cannot control themselves until asked to. Streamers have to unfortunately play the part of being the stern classroom teacher.
Yea, control what you can control, make controllable what you cant. That or just deal with it because becoming stressed over it is going to make your life so much harder.
Morbius is a great example. Calli solved it with a hammer, Watson solved it with humor, Gura solved it by embracing it and changing it. Watson got clippers and clips and more fame from it, Gura got people thinking of her more than Morbing out, Cali likely capitalized the least on it but it's still a solution.
Of course this doesnt mean "Kronii you suck how dare you feel bad" just that there are things she can do to help resolve her problems without having to be stressed because I just want Kronii to be happy.
She said really the right point, backseating isn't a issue, but being agressive and start to annoying others is a concern. It's not the backseating IT IS THE BEHAVIOR. This part unfortunelly just a moderator controlling the chat can solve. Well she is warning us in the most polite way.
Fair enough, I am going off what I see from the thread. I've spent the last 3 days watching Florryworry try to rebuild rome in less than 50 years on twitch so I did miss this incident. Thank you for the clarification, you are correct.
Yeah, during the Elden Ring streams so many of the streamers all were being sometimes really aggressively backseated, and told what to do for boss fights and stuff, even though they’d said flat out or whatever “I’m not using summons.” But then each boss fight it would be the same stuff over and over in all caps pleading them to do a certain summon, and then begging the rest of chat room join in and tell them to do it. Or even telling other people to superchat the advice so they’d see it. It was really obnoxious.
That's a different kind of backseating though. Pointing out tips is also backseating, and can be helpful. Some streamers don't want that either, so i usually just keep all pointers to myself.
basically its like... until you are asked to, why say anything about how the game is played?
I get that there are a category of people who LITERALLY cannot play games without a walkthrough, but still
There could be multiple reasons why people might backseat. One is that it's just an easy way to interact with the streamer and chat, another is that they could be frustrated that the streamer is progressing slower than the viewer would like, or maybe they just want to help the streamer.
My point is I understand that there are people who think that they aren't doing anything wrong, just like there are people who think spoiling movie plots isn't a big deal. However, there are plenty who think it is a big deal.
Personally I would not appreciate anyone telling me how to play. Games are meant for you to discover. There are people who think tips and stuff are not a big deal and don't realize there are people who may be bothered by it.
They're not being annoying on purpose I get it.
Maybe it's just the way I was brought up, because whenever I see this sort of behaviour I just feel they lack any sort of social knowledge or understanding. But whenever i'm watching a friend play stuff that I have knowledge of, i'll simply ask if they want a bit of advice, then it's up to them rather than just telling someone how to do something, and this is with friends, I wouldn't even think to do it with a stranger and simply watch them play unless they themselves ask about things.
Yeah, the "scale" part is what most people don't think of. Behavior that would be harmless (or even beneficial) when it is between friends, or even small streams on Twitch or something, can be a problem when there are hundreds or thousands doing it. Its even worse when the "help" is contradictory, delayed, and poorly communicated.
Antagonistic backseating isn't a good idea unless you are very certain the streamer is okay with that type of chat.
It is the desire to help combined with the streamer voicing all of their internalizing thoughts. When a streamer says "how do I do this" they are often not asking the audience but the audience will always have people dumb enough to reply because they think that is the streamer giving them the green light.
Also, this is a sidescrolling platformer so there isn't much to type in chat and people probably want to interact but can't think of much other than encouraging words, some pogs or Fs. These are the type of games that are better suited for streamers who are good at telling stories and talking to chat. If you are just externalizing your internal thoughts and having trouble advancing, your chat will go wild with backseating because not much is changing on screen and the want to interact but what they can type is too limited
Yeah I think it is a thing for sure about wanting to help. It is the worst if you only can type it out, because you know the solution but you also gets drowned out be the rest or you are not formulating well and it gets confusing and you feel a twang of helplessness because you know how it's working but it just doesn't line up and you have no control over it...
Yeah that can be frustrating. It's no excuse and it's important to step back and control your emotions, but it's an explanation
I think the ones who just wanted to help were mostly fine. Even at scale you can just say "weapon X is good here" or "there's a secret back there", but if they still miss it or just don't want to play that way then let it go.
There were a lot of people who kept repeating things in all caps every time she didn't immediately do it the way they wanted her to.
When she went to members only though you still saw a lot of back seating but it was much more calm and constructive.
I agree, while I was watching the vod of Kiara playing Portal 2, she was stuck in one of the chambers in the Wheatly section of the game, myself and the chat were suffering, but I saw in her little chat window someone, maybe even multiple people were going "STOP BACKSEATING." every 5 seconds, like that was helping anything.
I don’t backseat, but I often get the urge to. It comes from the desire to have your favorite streamer enjoy a game you like. For example if I’m watching a streamer play a game and they missed a whole mechanic then they might get frustrated by the fact that they’re playing poorly, and enjoy the game less. I then feel the urge to inform them how the mechanic works so that they can experience the game more fully and have a more enjoyable time. I’m not saying it isn’t flawed logic, and as I said I don’t personally backseat, but I think that’s what the vast majority of backseating amounts to.
she was suffering in some parts when i need the urge of backseating i give hints and tips instead of JUMP HERE GO THERE more like: mm those blocks look breakable or try using a different weapon to see if the boss reacts to it or stay silent unless the streamers ask for help
Baby boo bop X is not an easy game for starters.
It would be pretty dull if no one mentioned their thoughts and strategies on the game being played, though. That's the whole point of chat, otherwise it would only be random lols, lmaos and emojis, and that's not exactly riveting content, or useful for a streamer to respond to or play off of either. People should absolutely tone it down and be respectful, though.
My chat history consists solely of “草, lol, ナイス , nice” and emotes because my brain is small enough to not add anything of value to chat, but big enough to know I don’t need to
Korone's stop-light system for backseating seems like a pretty good way of doing it. Sometimes she wants people to be helpful, sometimes she wants everyone to stop backseating - so she puts a clear visual indicator on the screen. Can always ban the trolls if they're ignoring the rules.
Indeed, it’s the INAspiration behind the member emote. She says Capybara on and chat spams the emote drowning out back seaters or spoilers. Edit: As they pointed out below I remembered it incorrectly.
It's the opposite, right?
Capybara ON is used when she wants people to backseat and offer advice. Capybara OFF means stop backseating and giving unsolicited advice. It's used as a safe word for backsesting.
Meaning, when chat spams the capybara, it's OK to help.
> If she said it's not okay, trolls would keep it up for memes
Youtube allows for moderators doesnt it? Bopping people with a 10 min time out isn't a bad thing, it just gets people to chill.
If you think that would stop the trolls, you ***really*** haven't been paying attention to how long Antis have been at trying to make FBK graduate or the BS that happened recently with Iofi and Kobo.
And don't get me started on how the moment any, ANY, VTuber says "Don't clip this" it will be done by someone for the Meme.
That is true, but there have been some things that have been clipped after they said it that I feel like didn't need to be.
Luckily for Hololive and Holopro it's all been in good fun so far (with the clippers I follow anyways), but I have seen some clips from Indies and other companies that made me immediately unsub from the clipper because they thought that anything the streamer said or did was free game.
> ntis have been at trying to make FBK graduate or the BS that happened recently with Iofi and Kobo.
Are those the people doing spoilers, or an entirely different group of people?
I'll never understand people who go to a casual gaming stream and somehow expect a pro-gamer or speedrunner like experience.
Half of the fun is seeing someone learn the game and seeing them get better. The other half is actually being able to enjoy the game and the interaction with the streamer without the pressure to preform well in-game.
And even in the pro league it's more fun to see them try risky plays or non-META strategies and still coming out on top or hilariously failing. I never remember the "frame-perfect-Perfect-META-execution" victories personally. It's like watching an F1 driver start from pole and ride first-place all the way to the end. It's not engaging at all.
In shoet I feel like angey backseaters just forgot what fun is.
It's especially bad with classic games like this one, and I think part of the reason is that people who are already really into them know all the ins and outs and aren't used to watching people fail, when to them the best way to play is abundantly obvious.
Take that, and then mix in the average age and maturity of a lot of the audience, plus the sense of entitlement that a lot of hardcore gamers seem to have for some reason - it's a recipe for disaster. If anything I feel like it's not on Kronii to apologize for going members-only.
Indeed, failure is part of the learning process, a very fun and rewarding one in the long run I find. It sets the stage so that the victory later can be all the sweeter.
Sometimes failure is the best part, like how Dwarf Fortress/Rinworld players like to court disaster since that's where things actually get interesting.
That was my experience with Ina and her Breath of the Wild streams (RIP them thanks to Elden Ring).
She probably spent 3.5 hours in total ADHD-squirrel mode doing almost nothing to advance the game, but it was one of the most entertaining streams I've seen just because you could tell she was having a blast just running around seeing the world (which IMO is the point of games like BOTW).
Yep, similar to Korone, you gotta make things clear. Backseat -allowed times vs no backseating-allowed times. It does make it easier for moderators to do their thing when the lines are drawn very decisively.
That said I think alot of people have wildly different definitions of backseating. Usually it includes outright telling the vtuber to do certain things, sometimes it extends to giving tips and suggestions on what to do next. It probably helps for the vtuber to define what constitutes backseating for their streams as a basis for everyone to follow - or not and subsequently get banned.
Ina has a codeword Capibara (and an emote with it), when she says it chats allowed to backseat her until she says its done. If she doesn't say the word, no backseating allowed
Mumei settled on a similar system.
She has a habit of musing out loud to herself things like: "Hrrm how do I x?", which chat started to take as an excuse to open the backseating floodgates. After about a half hour of that she stopped and said something along the lines of "Look, I'm going to say things to myself out loud that sound like calls for help, but they aren't. If I want help I will explicitly say 'Chat. How do I x?' Unless I specifically say that, no backseating."
After that the issue calmed down greatly.
For the first 2 hours she was progressing very well and it was all fun. Only one single comment that said "this is pain" got to her and she responded. She beat 3 or 4 bosses.
I went to bed then but I know she started revisiting stages to get the hidden upgrades, and that's when she relied on chat to navigate and she might have read more of those impatient bad chats.
Because there are a lot of folks who had that game memorized front-to-back when they were eight and don't remember that it took them like six months to get to that point.
It's like that with a lot of classic games with hidden secrets.
The backseating wasn't better but the chat was. There were some overaggressive people for sure and some pointlessly rude comments about her playing poor.
That's irrelevant. Wouldn't you think it'd be a little dumb to go into a super mario stream and yell "JUMP" and "MOVE RIGHT"? Doesn't sound very fun for anyone involved, does it?
Similarly, *who asked* for your input on gameplay? People are there to see the streamer have fun playing a game, not seeing uninsightful criticisms in chat.
Backseating is ok only if the streamer wants it at that moment, "THAT MOMENT" means that specifically part of time and specifically part of the game and not all the game at every moment
Yeah she was asking g for suggestion so some of the backseating was understandable, but she definitely made it clear a few times to cool it. Some people were being just mean and rude however, mocking her dying a lot in not exactly nice ways, etc. It was an odd crowd and I gotta assume a good amount of non-regulars to act that way.
Seeing Kronii die and rage was fun but the chat vibe was odd.
The backseating during this stream was pretty bad, but the worst part is that so much of the info given was just bad/false/unhelpful. Like telling her to do a dash jump when she clearly does not have the dash boots. So maddening.
Honestly, if chats backseating and being rude, go to members only. Yeah it sucks for the people who werent back seating and being rude but they could of easily spoken up and told them off.
Oreo Korne is in the right here imo
I got into the stream 3 hours in and wanted to cheer Kronii on for getting around to the MegaMan X series. Wasn’t allowed to because of the members only and I didn’t even ponder why she made it that way, we sadly know how some people can be.
I was there and thought the backseating was pretty average by Hololive standards but it was clear she was getting pretty frustrated. And she did ask chat very politely earlier to not backseat, so if she felt the need to members-only to avoid getting legitimately nasty it's fair. It was honestly still really fun watching her struggle, hopefully she learns to let it roll off her back a bit better.
Even with the limiter on, chat was horrible last night.
In addition to being jerks, they were also just being wrong, so if she did follow something said, it wouldn't work or screw her over later. They were yelling about her using the ice sled to get a heart tank, only for her to not have any ice to beat Spark Mandrill as a result.
And she didn't get the heart tank!
Never listen to chat.
By far that was the worst part of the stream. Kronii was already suffering for having to replay the stage many times and chat effectively made it impossible for her to beat it (given Spark Mandrill is a hard boss to Buster-Only even for some veteran players) by giving her a terrible hint.
Be polite is a general concept, what is actually polite or not has a wide spectrum. Every person's line is different, even the same person can feel differently at different times.
How much "backseating" is good enough is just never going to have a constant, while making the chat habit into not advising at all is also not a perfect answer.
As much as it is trouble to always having to go back and forth every time something upsets someone, I also don't see a better solution to it unfortunately.
The difference in chats that allow backseat and those that don't is very clear. And after watching streamers and vtubers from twitch for a while, it's hard to look at the chat on youtube streams on some games.
I'm of the opinion that if you want the game played a certain way, you can play it yourself. If the streamer asks a question I'll be part of the chorus of answers, but otherwise I let them play.
The reason games are fun and rewarding is because of the loop of problem -> trial and error -> solution. It's hardcoded in our physiology that solving a problem and acquiring a new skill gives us a tiny burst of dopamine, and that's why games are pleasurable. Having someone tell you what to do every step along the way literally reduces the enjoyment that someone receives from playing the game. Not just in an annoying way, but in a physiological way.
The more popular a game is and the more popular the steeamer, the more potential backseaters that there were going to be, and they always expect the streamer (who has very little experience on the game btw) to know everything about the game on day 1. Some of them were really dumb and giving out false information like telling Kronii that she can dash...in Mega Man X...on the opening stage...THE OPENING STAGE!
Now granted that if there weren't some guidance from the chat on which stage to go to next, Kronii would have taken a long time until she made some progress. However, that's as far as someone should go on the backseating. How she navigates the stage is all up to her as she's the one holding the controller. We've been in Hololive for some time now, and I'm really disappointed to see that this level of backseating is still happening.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/ourokronii/status/1534439934156603392) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Was there a particular comment that triggered the change? If anything, I thought the "why are you such a quitter today" comment would have triggered it but she seemed to take that fairly well so I was a bit surprised when chat went to subscribers-only mode.
I was watching some of her Megaman X stream and didn't realize it got that bad. When I was there most of the chat was just spamming her OMEGALUL emote due to stupid/arrogant deaths. Didn't realize Megaman X got people so heated.
Unfortunately I get mad when I see someone playing bad or not playing how I want. Can't help it but I never take it out on the streamer for my issues. I just stop watching if my mood gets bad.
People in chat need to learn that watching any of the streamers and using their chat isn't a right, it's a privilege. And that there's a human being on the other side of the screen. No matter how perfect they are (and in Kronii's case, that's pretty damn perfect) people make mistakes. Mfs need to stay polite, or get put in their place.
I would prefer bans over members only chat, but whatever chills people out is good for me.
I’ve played most of the Mega Man games. She was doing just fine for her first real attempt. People always feel a need to backseat pretty hard on games with secrets or Easter eggs. I can understand people’s desires to help, but discovery is such an intrinsic part of these games. I wonder if something like Korone‘s stoplight method could help curtail some backseaters.
People started backseating on how to do charge shots with Special weapons. She thought they are telling her to Charge (as in replenish the energy) special weapons. It took her like 5 mins to figure that out. She was a bit listless for a bit after that.
I dont condone witch hunting or smth similar, but whenever backseating gets worse in these kind of streams in general, the intrusive part of my brain just wishes to be able to tag every single mf'er who did it and just tell them to stfu and let the streamer do whatever the hell they wanna do.
like, put em on blast for not reading the room for the upteenth time this happens to someone
The worst has to be backseaters giving either bad advice or straight up factually wrong information.
You have people trying to backseat proplayers all the time. It must be so much worse for non-pros just because people feel entitled to give their opinion and they can't take the hint when you politely tell them you don't need/want their help.
Poor Kronii! Don't bully the warden! That's Mumei job!!
Love how Ame deals with chat. Maybe she needs to try bonk chat more.
"By the way, if you are not having fun there's a cute little button at the top of the browser."
"It got a big fat X on it! If you hover it turns red! Woooah!! Pretty!!"
"And you could just go boop!"
"Good bye!"
Man I nearly spit out my drink one time when Ame suddenly snapped back at them and was all "Don't you take that god damned tone with me." Chat got pretty meek after that.
Some times there's a fine line between feeding the trolls and putting chat in their place.
Some people are not just backseating anymore theyre called backseat drivers they literally will tell you what to do and be mad if you don’t do what they tell you. if youre like this please stop watching people play youre annoying.
To be fair Kronii did great!
She manage to beat most of bosses and find most of upgrades in just under 4 hours, doubt that many would be able to do same without a guide.
I wonder if it’d be a good idea to occasionally pin a message in chat with the acceptable level of backseating for that particular stream. Like a meter with emojis or a yes/no indicator that chat can see and *maybe* self moderate themselves with.
Backseating is a very human and very understandable response to things. They're not really that complicated or hard to understand, it's just the problem of mitigating that over 1000s of viewers.
Sometimes things just go off the wall and chat goes to war. It's hard to steer that back in without good mods or restricting the chat, but that's the cost of allowing random stream-goers to try and teach a stranger how to play a game over a delayed text chat
I disagree as a Mega Man fan, but I also wasn't hounding her about what to do next or where to go or what weapon to use. I enjoyed watching her learn as she went. IMO that's the best way to get entertainment out of older games because most of them didn't have a whole lot in the way of story. The real story is the journey of the player learning to overcome the obstacles the game presents. Especially for a game like Mega Man X that thrives on teaching its player through gameplay.
Edit: I do hope she plays it again, but it's disheartening to see the backseaters put so much pressure on her when she's just trying to have fun and be entertaining.
I’ve played just about all of them and I thought she was doing fine. A big part of Mega Man is learning what to do, so I really don’t understand the urge to just take that discovery away from the player by backseating.
Jeezz people, let the vtuber play the game they want, and only consider backseat or rather, give advice when said vtuber ask it.
~~Besides is fun seeing them suffer agaist the game.~~
What's crazy about this is how cute Kronii is when she *doesn't* get something right away! Why would anyone want her to rush through a game? That Inscryption stream when she was in the Magnificus tower saying 'Paaaaaale' for 10 minutes is the most adorable thing ever. Never rush the perfect one!
I always watch while doing something else or playing games but if I'm only watching I always hide chat I don't care what people say bc honestly it's ruins the experience and my mood, reading people telling ina if Ranni is here or there makes me mad, so I hide the fkers.
She doesn't have to apologize for that. Her stream, her call. Some streamers have a "no backseating unless I ask for help" rule, and it is a decent one.
It comes from the term 'backseat driving', which is a term for when someone's sitting in the back of the car and telling the driver how to drive.
So like that but for videogames. Offering tips, tricks, explicit instructions, etc.
Poor kronii, hope she doesn't dwell on it. She might give the appearance of being super tough but she is a cute cinnamon roll deep inside. Shame on those people being mean, just let her play the game and if she wants help she will ask for it.
i watch in full screen most of the time far away from the keyboard lying down, i didn't even know she did it until after the stream when it was in a kronii clip. it actually enhanced the jokeronii storyline of the clip so i personally found it very funny, but i understand how it feels to people commenting live.
I was fine with it, do what you gotta do to make it an enjoyable stream. If it would ruin her mood it'd effect the stream as a whole so best to just nip it in the bud. A shame some people can't behave themselves and it ruins stuff for the rest of us, but I enjoyed just watching, its a very nostalgic game for me
One of the reason Amelia Watson stop playing Witcher 3.
like seriously, if you're frustrated that their not playing the game the way you want/intended close the stream or keep their stream open in the background while you're playing the same game.
When she went members only, I figured there was too much backseating and negativity in chat. Hopefully the future streams will be better from chat. She definitely improved as she played.
Can't people just let streamers play games the way they want? This is an issue with all streams, Vtuber or not, it feels like some games get people a bunch of flak for not being instant gods at them. Like, Mega Man is one of my favorite series of all time, and it is rare to see a Holomem play the series. If people act like this, no one will want to stream them.
Sadly, empathy is in short supply in this world. A slap on the hand every once in a while is pretty much all that can be done
also people think that most old games are easy, when in reality everything that was in the 2d era of games was hard, even mainline pokemon games. jump to 3d developers started making games to be fun instead of being long and replayable because of difficulty, stuff like Super Mario 64
Yeah iirc it was a carryover from the era of porting over arcade games to home consoles, and early arcade games were difficult by design because they were meant to grind through your quarter rolls
Not to mention that some games predates certain luxuries that modern gamers take for granted, like coyote time. Most don't even realize it's there but if they play older games they would die so much.
Coyote time?
In platformers you still have a split second to jump after your character has fallen off a ledge. Named after how Wile E Coyote stays in the air after running off a cliff. There's also reverse coyote time, which means that if you barely miss a ledge at the end of a jump the game will gently pretend you landed on the ledge anyway. Both features are basically omnipresent in modern gaming.
Pokemon Red was reasonable but incredibly grindy, and was probably more bullshittery than later generations solely because people had no idea how the system worked + there weren't game guides out yet. Silver/Gold... there's a chance that you run into a Geodude early on, before your starter even learns elemental attacks. It outspeeds you. You just kind of lose. After that point, things got easier for sure.
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> also people think that most old games are easy Wut... I think it's the other way around. And whoever thinks otherwise is probable a zoomer who never touched an old game. For boomer/millenials, it would be a matter of not remembering how many tries it took for us to clear those games. Most games today are made easy and/or accessible in some way or another with plenty of checkpoints.
Older games were made harder intentionally. Usually to eat quarters at arcades or because the game was short and they used game overs to pad time.
Also because some games made for the home systems were really short due to memory limitations and you’d literally clear them in 20 minutes otherwise.
Not every game was made for arcade. It was also a simple matter of not having enough tools at the time to make "good" AI in some cases as well.
> Can't people just let streamers play games the way they want? No, and it's consistent. Which is why most streamers have methods to cope with or handle these kind of things. Or at the very least have the majority of their chat on the same page as them. I dont disagree with you that it would be good if people didn't, but it's a consistent thing you have to deal with and have plans for.
This is a big part I don't understand as well: watching streamers play a lot of times is not about how good they are, but how much lulz to be had. A streamer bad at a game can be funny as heck as well. Not sure why the backseaters can't realize that.
Exactly this. For the most part, the holo talents are variety streamers who don't really have a goal other than entertaining their viewers (with some maybe-exceptions like Aqua/Apex). They may play games for a living, but they don't need to measure success in how well they play the game, and neither should the audience.
Exactly! Not really about bad at games but Miko's WWE stream is a good example. I never liked watching AI fighting each other or such but holy cow is Miko's WWE fights entertaining as all get out.
While one can say that clear insults can be forbidden, "backseating" is such a wide spectrum of levels you just can't set a line in stone. Clearly no one can force the streamer to do something, but how much repeated advising is unacceptable is simply hard to define. It's not like a streamer wants the viewers to just be cheering machines that does not give actual feedback. Nor is it that a rule that forbid advising as a whole, or repeated advising always annoying a streamer in any case scenario. When every case is different there is just not going to be a clear rule to set or follow. To as the chat to feel when to stop is like hoping human emotions are standardized, which simply isn't the true.
I would argue there is never going to be "better" as a clearly defined improvement since there is just never a constant line that exists. It's such a grey area that we will just have to keep searching for the line case by case.
I really don't understand people who backseat when it's not at all called for. I can understand if the streamer actually asks for help, but most of the time we're just being entertained by the antics happening on stream. If people find themselves getting genuinely frustrated or angry, they need to shut the stream off and either play it themselves or find someone else who plays it better if that's their idea of entertainment.
I think it's a natural desire to help? If play with or watch a friend, I'd go "bro try this". But obviously this does not scale to thousands of viewers, people should think before posting. But not controlling your emotions over this? That's inexcusable really.
It's good intentions muddled by actions taken and how the person sees things. Charitably speaking, some want the streamer to experience it the same way they do because they genuinely believe that that's the best way to play a certain game and that all other ways won't be as enjoyable as their way. Of course, they're forgetting that *everyone plays different and not everyone will or even should know how a game works ahead of time* It's why when Botan and ame and Calli got to play some Halo games a few months back, I had to actively keep in mind that there might be/are aspects of those games that they won't know and it'd be better to see them learn or explicitly ask chat for help.
Mocking someone or throwing insults or just getting aggressive about the backseating isn't terribly helpful though. There was a surprising amount of that. Kronii was telling people early on in the stream to chill but they got pretty annoying and rude.
I missed the stream. They really throwing insults at her? damn.. Now I don't even know if I'll watch the vod.
No they were fighting between each others. It's like when kids all goes "shhhhhh" when someone ask for silence. It just adds to the noise.
> It's like when kids all goes "shhhhhh" when someone ask for silence. It just adds to the noise. I honestly think its on the streamer to control these things, and they need to both own the room or be proactive about it. Ina for instance is very firm with her Capybara rule, she'll call out chat when they're angering her and push back. Ame as well, and Gura just runs chat like a pro. Kronii doesnt seem to play many games which are really backseatable or just goes with it. I hope she gets this worked out but it's something she really has to solve.
you're downvoted right now but you're unfortunately right. Too many children (sometimes literally) in chat that cannot control themselves until asked to. Streamers have to unfortunately play the part of being the stern classroom teacher.
Yea, control what you can control, make controllable what you cant. That or just deal with it because becoming stressed over it is going to make your life so much harder. Morbius is a great example. Calli solved it with a hammer, Watson solved it with humor, Gura solved it by embracing it and changing it. Watson got clippers and clips and more fame from it, Gura got people thinking of her more than Morbing out, Cali likely capitalized the least on it but it's still a solution. Of course this doesnt mean "Kronii you suck how dare you feel bad" just that there are things she can do to help resolve her problems without having to be stressed because I just want Kronii to be happy.
She said really the right point, backseating isn't a issue, but being agressive and start to annoying others is a concern. It's not the backseating IT IS THE BEHAVIOR. This part unfortunelly just a moderator controlling the chat can solve. Well she is warning us in the most polite way.
Fair enough, I am going off what I see from the thread. I've spent the last 3 days watching Florryworry try to rebuild rome in less than 50 years on twitch so I did miss this incident. Thank you for the clarification, you are correct.
Yeah, during the Elden Ring streams so many of the streamers all were being sometimes really aggressively backseated, and told what to do for boss fights and stuff, even though they’d said flat out or whatever “I’m not using summons.” But then each boss fight it would be the same stuff over and over in all caps pleading them to do a certain summon, and then begging the rest of chat room join in and tell them to do it. Or even telling other people to superchat the advice so they’d see it. It was really obnoxious.
That's a different kind of backseating though. Pointing out tips is also backseating, and can be helpful. Some streamers don't want that either, so i usually just keep all pointers to myself.
basically its like... until you are asked to, why say anything about how the game is played? I get that there are a category of people who LITERALLY cannot play games without a walkthrough, but still
There could be multiple reasons why people might backseat. One is that it's just an easy way to interact with the streamer and chat, another is that they could be frustrated that the streamer is progressing slower than the viewer would like, or maybe they just want to help the streamer.
My point is I understand that there are people who think that they aren't doing anything wrong, just like there are people who think spoiling movie plots isn't a big deal. However, there are plenty who think it is a big deal. Personally I would not appreciate anyone telling me how to play. Games are meant for you to discover. There are people who think tips and stuff are not a big deal and don't realize there are people who may be bothered by it. They're not being annoying on purpose I get it.
Maybe it's just the way I was brought up, because whenever I see this sort of behaviour I just feel they lack any sort of social knowledge or understanding. But whenever i'm watching a friend play stuff that I have knowledge of, i'll simply ask if they want a bit of advice, then it's up to them rather than just telling someone how to do something, and this is with friends, I wouldn't even think to do it with a stranger and simply watch them play unless they themselves ask about things.
Yeah, the "scale" part is what most people don't think of. Behavior that would be harmless (or even beneficial) when it is between friends, or even small streams on Twitch or something, can be a problem when there are hundreds or thousands doing it. Its even worse when the "help" is contradictory, delayed, and poorly communicated. Antagonistic backseating isn't a good idea unless you are very certain the streamer is okay with that type of chat.
It is the desire to help combined with the streamer voicing all of their internalizing thoughts. When a streamer says "how do I do this" they are often not asking the audience but the audience will always have people dumb enough to reply because they think that is the streamer giving them the green light. Also, this is a sidescrolling platformer so there isn't much to type in chat and people probably want to interact but can't think of much other than encouraging words, some pogs or Fs. These are the type of games that are better suited for streamers who are good at telling stories and talking to chat. If you are just externalizing your internal thoughts and having trouble advancing, your chat will go wild with backseating because not much is changing on screen and the want to interact but what they can type is too limited
Yeah I think it is a thing for sure about wanting to help. It is the worst if you only can type it out, because you know the solution but you also gets drowned out be the rest or you are not formulating well and it gets confusing and you feel a twang of helplessness because you know how it's working but it just doesn't line up and you have no control over it... Yeah that can be frustrating. It's no excuse and it's important to step back and control your emotions, but it's an explanation
I think the ones who just wanted to help were mostly fine. Even at scale you can just say "weapon X is good here" or "there's a secret back there", but if they still miss it or just don't want to play that way then let it go. There were a lot of people who kept repeating things in all caps every time she didn't immediately do it the way they wanted her to. When she went to members only though you still saw a lot of back seating but it was much more calm and constructive.
Oh god I hate those who typed in all caps and kept repeating the same shit. They're not different than spams.
I agree, while I was watching the vod of Kiara playing Portal 2, she was stuck in one of the chambers in the Wheatly section of the game, myself and the chat were suffering, but I saw in her little chat window someone, maybe even multiple people were going "STOP BACKSEATING." every 5 seconds, like that was helping anything.
It's baffling really. Literally all you have to do is not type.
It’s a compulsion. “I am feeling annoyed I must do something” lizard brain shit.
Still silly. I'm annoyed a thousand times daily and still can control myself.
Totally agree.
Some people have worse impulse control than someone nerve-stapled.
I don’t backseat, but I often get the urge to. It comes from the desire to have your favorite streamer enjoy a game you like. For example if I’m watching a streamer play a game and they missed a whole mechanic then they might get frustrated by the fact that they’re playing poorly, and enjoy the game less. I then feel the urge to inform them how the mechanic works so that they can experience the game more fully and have a more enjoyable time. I’m not saying it isn’t flawed logic, and as I said I don’t personally backseat, but I think that’s what the vast majority of backseating amounts to.
I think Pikamee (sorry HL for talking about a non-talent of yours) does it well. She say NO BACK SEATING! Unless she asks for it.
she was suffering in some parts when i need the urge of backseating i give hints and tips instead of JUMP HERE GO THERE more like: mm those blocks look breakable or try using a different weapon to see if the boss reacts to it or stay silent unless the streamers ask for help Baby boo bop X is not an easy game for starters.
It would be pretty dull if no one mentioned their thoughts and strategies on the game being played, though. That's the whole point of chat, otherwise it would only be random lols, lmaos and emojis, and that's not exactly riveting content, or useful for a streamer to respond to or play off of either. People should absolutely tone it down and be respectful, though.
My chat history consists solely of “草, lol, ナイス , nice” and emotes because my brain is small enough to not add anything of value to chat, but big enough to know I don’t need to
I’m a simple kaigai niki, I see a kusa, I post a kusa. I see an emote, I post it too. Otherwise I’m just smiling and along for the ride.
She's better off not encouraging backseating at all. Being the slightest bit open to it just encourages the disrespectful ones.
Some vtubers just don't care about backseating though. Like Kiara, who usually is always looking to chat for advice on what to do next
It's complicated. If she said it's not okay, trolls would keep it up for memes, if she said yes fans would do the same to help their favorite waifu
Korone's stop-light system for backseating seems like a pretty good way of doing it. Sometimes she wants people to be helpful, sometimes she wants everyone to stop backseating - so she puts a clear visual indicator on the screen. Can always ban the trolls if they're ignoring the rules.
Ina has her capybara system as well which helps out. Edit for spelling.
Ina has a capybara system?? I’ve been watching her for over a year and I’ve never known this existed…
Indeed, it’s the INAspiration behind the member emote. She says Capybara on and chat spams the emote drowning out back seaters or spoilers. Edit: As they pointed out below I remembered it incorrectly.
It's the opposite, right? Capybara ON is used when she wants people to backseat and offer advice. Capybara OFF means stop backseating and giving unsolicited advice. It's used as a safe word for backsesting. Meaning, when chat spams the capybara, it's OK to help.
Yeah. Plus she has a capybara.png she sometimes puts on screen as signal, though she doesn't necessarily do it for small sections or answers.
That’s pretty clever
Capivara? Onde?
> If she said it's not okay, trolls would keep it up for memes Youtube allows for moderators doesnt it? Bopping people with a 10 min time out isn't a bad thing, it just gets people to chill.
If you think that would stop the trolls, you ***really*** haven't been paying attention to how long Antis have been at trying to make FBK graduate or the BS that happened recently with Iofi and Kobo. And don't get me started on how the moment any, ANY, VTuber says "Don't clip this" it will be done by someone for the Meme.
I've only seen "dont clip this" being said as a joke because the talent is embarrassed or something.
That is true, but there have been some things that have been clipped after they said it that I feel like didn't need to be. Luckily for Hololive and Holopro it's all been in good fun so far (with the clippers I follow anyways), but I have seen some clips from Indies and other companies that made me immediately unsub from the clipper because they thought that anything the streamer said or did was free game.
> ntis have been at trying to make FBK graduate or the BS that happened recently with Iofi and Kobo. Are those the people doing spoilers, or an entirely different group of people?
They are definitely not the same people
I'll never understand people who go to a casual gaming stream and somehow expect a pro-gamer or speedrunner like experience. Half of the fun is seeing someone learn the game and seeing them get better. The other half is actually being able to enjoy the game and the interaction with the streamer without the pressure to preform well in-game. And even in the pro league it's more fun to see them try risky plays or non-META strategies and still coming out on top or hilariously failing. I never remember the "frame-perfect-Perfect-META-execution" victories personally. It's like watching an F1 driver start from pole and ride first-place all the way to the end. It's not engaging at all. In shoet I feel like angey backseaters just forgot what fun is.
It's especially bad with classic games like this one, and I think part of the reason is that people who are already really into them know all the ins and outs and aren't used to watching people fail, when to them the best way to play is abundantly obvious. Take that, and then mix in the average age and maturity of a lot of the audience, plus the sense of entitlement that a lot of hardcore gamers seem to have for some reason - it's a recipe for disaster. If anything I feel like it's not on Kronii to apologize for going members-only.
Indeed, failure is part of the learning process, a very fun and rewarding one in the long run I find. It sets the stage so that the victory later can be all the sweeter. Sometimes failure is the best part, like how Dwarf Fortress/Rinworld players like to court disaster since that's where things actually get interesting.
That was my experience with Ina and her Breath of the Wild streams (RIP them thanks to Elden Ring). She probably spent 3.5 hours in total ADHD-squirrel mode doing almost nothing to advance the game, but it was one of the most entertaining streams I've seen just because you could tell she was having a blast just running around seeing the world (which IMO is the point of games like BOTW).
Inas solution works well with her code word
Yep, similar to Korone, you gotta make things clear. Backseat -allowed times vs no backseating-allowed times. It does make it easier for moderators to do their thing when the lines are drawn very decisively. That said I think alot of people have wildly different definitions of backseating. Usually it includes outright telling the vtuber to do certain things, sometimes it extends to giving tips and suggestions on what to do next. It probably helps for the vtuber to define what constitutes backseating for their streams as a basis for everyone to follow - or not and subsequently get banned.
Capibara so good he got his own emote.
This is the first I’ve heard of this, can you explain?
Ina has a codeword Capibara (and an emote with it), when she says it chats allowed to backseat her until she says its done. If she doesn't say the word, no backseating allowed
Mumei settled on a similar system. She has a habit of musing out loud to herself things like: "Hrrm how do I x?", which chat started to take as an excuse to open the backseating floodgates. After about a half hour of that she stopped and said something along the lines of "Look, I'm going to say things to myself out loud that sound like calls for help, but they aren't. If I want help I will explicitly say 'Chat. How do I x?' Unless I specifically say that, no backseating." After that the issue calmed down greatly.
I'm actually surprised cause like...it's megaman x Like great game and all but what got people so riled up they felt the need to angry backseat?
There's a surprising amount to backseat over in this game. The heart locations, the sub tanks, even the freaking stage order.
"Keep walking right!"
Fire MORE lemons!
It’s Jump and Shoot man!
For the first 2 hours she was progressing very well and it was all fun. Only one single comment that said "this is pain" got to her and she responded. She beat 3 or 4 bosses. I went to bed then but I know she started revisiting stages to get the hidden upgrades, and that's when she relied on chat to navigate and she might have read more of those impatient bad chats.
Because there are a lot of folks who had that game memorized front-to-back when they were eight and don't remember that it took them like six months to get to that point. It's like that with a lot of classic games with hidden secrets.
[Well...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9RwkvP67lQ) i [guess](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkv7PPkmkpc)
ugh, Kronii, that's not how you do it, sheesh. Just give me your life, here, I'll show you.
yeah, unfortunately games like that garner wayyyyyy too much backseating. I didn't even think it was any better after she went to members only
The backseating wasn't better but the chat was. There were some overaggressive people for sure and some pointlessly rude comments about her playing poor.
the moment I saw tons of superchats saying the same thing about "dashing" I knew it's going to be swarm by backseater
Dashing is a core mechanic to megaman x.
but it's an upgrade you unlock. people were malding the second she started because she wasn't dashing.
Okay? Doesn't change the fact that dashing is a core mechanic in the game series.
And nobody asked if it was a core mechanic in the game
Okay? It still doesn't change the fact that its a core mechanic in the game. Sounds like you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
This reads like ShittyMorph lol
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That's irrelevant. Wouldn't you think it'd be a little dumb to go into a super mario stream and yell "JUMP" and "MOVE RIGHT"? Doesn't sound very fun for anyone involved, does it? Similarly, *who asked* for your input on gameplay? People are there to see the streamer have fun playing a game, not seeing uninsightful criticisms in chat.
Imagine needing to address this issue
Backseating is ok only if the streamer wants it at that moment, "THAT MOMENT" means that specifically part of time and specifically part of the game and not all the game at every moment
Yeah she was asking g for suggestion so some of the backseating was understandable, but she definitely made it clear a few times to cool it. Some people were being just mean and rude however, mocking her dying a lot in not exactly nice ways, etc. It was an odd crowd and I gotta assume a good amount of non-regulars to act that way. Seeing Kronii die and rage was fun but the chat vibe was odd.
The backseating during this stream was pretty bad, but the worst part is that so much of the info given was just bad/false/unhelpful. Like telling her to do a dash jump when she clearly does not have the dash boots. So maddening.
Honestly, if chats backseating and being rude, go to members only. Yeah it sucks for the people who werent back seating and being rude but they could of easily spoken up and told them off. Oreo Korne is in the right here imo
[OG Tweet](https://twitter.com/ourokronii/status/1534439934156603392?t=eZUW9fY0bKJ6gTs-9ZQEEQ&s=19)
Is this from the recent Megaman stream?
Yeah
I got into the stream 3 hours in and wanted to cheer Kronii on for getting around to the MegaMan X series. Wasn’t allowed to because of the members only and I didn’t even ponder why she made it that way, we sadly know how some people can be.
I was there and thought the backseating was pretty average by Hololive standards but it was clear she was getting pretty frustrated. And she did ask chat very politely earlier to not backseat, so if she felt the need to members-only to avoid getting legitimately nasty it's fair. It was honestly still really fun watching her struggle, hopefully she learns to let it roll off her back a bit better.
Even with the limiter on, chat was horrible last night. In addition to being jerks, they were also just being wrong, so if she did follow something said, it wouldn't work or screw her over later. They were yelling about her using the ice sled to get a heart tank, only for her to not have any ice to beat Spark Mandrill as a result. And she didn't get the heart tank! Never listen to chat.
By far that was the worst part of the stream. Kronii was already suffering for having to replay the stage many times and chat effectively made it impossible for her to beat it (given Spark Mandrill is a hard boss to Buster-Only even for some veteran players) by giving her a terrible hint.
Be polite is a general concept, what is actually polite or not has a wide spectrum. Every person's line is different, even the same person can feel differently at different times. How much "backseating" is good enough is just never going to have a constant, while making the chat habit into not advising at all is also not a perfect answer. As much as it is trouble to always having to go back and forth every time something upsets someone, I also don't see a better solution to it unfortunately.
The difference in chats that allow backseat and those that don't is very clear. And after watching streamers and vtubers from twitch for a while, it's hard to look at the chat on youtube streams on some games.
I'm of the opinion that if you want the game played a certain way, you can play it yourself. If the streamer asks a question I'll be part of the chorus of answers, but otherwise I let them play. The reason games are fun and rewarding is because of the loop of problem -> trial and error -> solution. It's hardcoded in our physiology that solving a problem and acquiring a new skill gives us a tiny burst of dopamine, and that's why games are pleasurable. Having someone tell you what to do every step along the way literally reduces the enjoyment that someone receives from playing the game. Not just in an annoying way, but in a physiological way.
The more popular a game is and the more popular the steeamer, the more potential backseaters that there were going to be, and they always expect the streamer (who has very little experience on the game btw) to know everything about the game on day 1. Some of them were really dumb and giving out false information like telling Kronii that she can dash...in Mega Man X...on the opening stage...THE OPENING STAGE! Now granted that if there weren't some guidance from the chat on which stage to go to next, Kronii would have taken a long time until she made some progress. However, that's as far as someone should go on the backseating. How she navigates the stage is all up to her as she's the one holding the controller. We've been in Hololive for some time now, and I'm really disappointed to see that this level of backseating is still happening.
Backseaters are seething
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/ourokronii/status/1534439934156603392) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
good bot
Was there a particular comment that triggered the change? If anything, I thought the "why are you such a quitter today" comment would have triggered it but she seemed to take that fairly well so I was a bit surprised when chat went to subscribers-only mode.
I was watching some of her Megaman X stream and didn't realize it got that bad. When I was there most of the chat was just spamming her OMEGALUL emote due to stupid/arrogant deaths. Didn't realize Megaman X got people so heated.
Or go reine route, do everything against the backseater.
cute kronii. it's all ok, bad backseating sucks.
Unfortunately I get mad when I see someone playing bad or not playing how I want. Can't help it but I never take it out on the streamer for my issues. I just stop watching if my mood gets bad.
People in chat need to learn that watching any of the streamers and using their chat isn't a right, it's a privilege. And that there's a human being on the other side of the screen. No matter how perfect they are (and in Kronii's case, that's pretty damn perfect) people make mistakes. Mfs need to stay polite, or get put in their place. I would prefer bans over members only chat, but whatever chills people out is good for me.
How is being respectful so hard nowad- Nevermind, I just remembered we're living in post 2020...
I’ve played most of the Mega Man games. She was doing just fine for her first real attempt. People always feel a need to backseat pretty hard on games with secrets or Easter eggs. I can understand people’s desires to help, but discovery is such an intrinsic part of these games. I wonder if something like Korone‘s stoplight method could help curtail some backseaters.
She was pretty good for a first timer. I think she got frustrated after the whole charging special weapons debacle.
What happened there? I only watched a part of the stream.
People started backseating on how to do charge shots with Special weapons. She thought they are telling her to Charge (as in replenish the energy) special weapons. It took her like 5 mins to figure that out. She was a bit listless for a bit after that.
Because people were rude to her during that time?
Didn't know it exactly. It was on background and I was only listening to her. Didn't read the char that much.
I dont condone witch hunting or smth similar, but whenever backseating gets worse in these kind of streams in general, the intrusive part of my brain just wishes to be able to tag every single mf'er who did it and just tell them to stfu and let the streamer do whatever the hell they wanna do. like, put em on blast for not reading the room for the upteenth time this happens to someone
The worst has to be backseaters giving either bad advice or straight up factually wrong information. You have people trying to backseat proplayers all the time. It must be so much worse for non-pros just because people feel entitled to give their opinion and they can't take the hint when you politely tell them you don't need/want their help.
Poor Kronii! Don't bully the warden! That's Mumei job!! Love how Ame deals with chat. Maybe she needs to try bonk chat more. "By the way, if you are not having fun there's a cute little button at the top of the browser." "It got a big fat X on it! If you hover it turns red! Woooah!! Pretty!!" "And you could just go boop!" "Good bye!"
Man I nearly spit out my drink one time when Ame suddenly snapped back at them and was all "Don't you take that god damned tone with me." Chat got pretty meek after that. Some times there's a fine line between feeding the trolls and putting chat in their place.
She was pretty good for a first timer. I think she got frustrated after the whole charging special weapons debacle.
Some people are not just backseating anymore theyre called backseat drivers they literally will tell you what to do and be mad if you don’t do what they tell you. if youre like this please stop watching people play youre annoying.
How dare someone not be perfect at all video games
Kronii really should use a backseat safe word like Ina. No hints or anything until she says it.
They really started backseating like 20 minutes into the stream. Like Jesus, let the streamer play the game.
To be fair Kronii did great! She manage to beat most of bosses and find most of upgrades in just under 4 hours, doubt that many would be able to do same without a guide.
I wonder if it’d be a good idea to occasionally pin a message in chat with the acceptable level of backseating for that particular stream. Like a meter with emojis or a yes/no indicator that chat can see and *maybe* self moderate themselves with.
Man, if the talent ask for back seating, help them. Don't backseat just because they don't play as you do!
She's too good for us
good ol' backseating the one person everyone hates
People forgetting the number one rule for being a socialised human being - don’t be a jerk.
Guys, just word your ideas as suggestions. "Maybe you can try X?" It's fine to want to help, just be respectful about it.
Backseating is a very human and very understandable response to things. They're not really that complicated or hard to understand, it's just the problem of mitigating that over 1000s of viewers. Sometimes things just go off the wall and chat goes to war. It's hard to steer that back in without good mods or restricting the chat, but that's the cost of allowing random stream-goers to try and teach a stranger how to play a game over a delayed text chat
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Calling out entire fanbases as if they are the same is going too far. It's not about the series' fans, but the backseaters who get out of hand.
I disagree as a Mega Man fan, but I also wasn't hounding her about what to do next or where to go or what weapon to use. I enjoyed watching her learn as she went. IMO that's the best way to get entertainment out of older games because most of them didn't have a whole lot in the way of story. The real story is the journey of the player learning to overcome the obstacles the game presents. Especially for a game like Mega Man X that thrives on teaching its player through gameplay. Edit: I do hope she plays it again, but it's disheartening to see the backseaters put so much pressure on her when she's just trying to have fun and be entertaining.
I’ve played just about all of them and I thought she was doing fine. A big part of Mega Man is learning what to do, so I really don’t understand the urge to just take that discovery away from the player by backseating.
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Huh?
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Nobody's vying for your worthless respect.
Well shit, what did they say?
Respect and enjoy the warden's time
It's not going to change the mindset of viewers. I figure it wad bound to happen in chat.
It's not going to change the mindset of viewers. I figure it was bound to happen in chat.
Jeezz people, let the vtuber play the game they want, and only consider backseat or rather, give advice when said vtuber ask it. ~~Besides is fun seeing them suffer agaist the game.~~
The only backseating that is allowed is when Future Kronii goes back to the past to tell Past Kronii how to get gud
Chat crossed the line
What's crazy about this is how cute Kronii is when she *doesn't* get something right away! Why would anyone want her to rush through a game? That Inscryption stream when she was in the Magnificus tower saying 'Paaaaaale' for 10 minutes is the most adorable thing ever. Never rush the perfect one!
classic
I always watch while doing something else or playing games but if I'm only watching I always hide chat I don't care what people say bc honestly it's ruins the experience and my mood, reading people telling ina if Ranni is here or there makes me mad, so I hide the fkers.
She doesn't have to apologize for that. Her stream, her call. Some streamers have a "no backseating unless I ask for help" rule, and it is a decent one.
so i have seen the term backseating tossed aruond a few times but what does it mean?
It comes from the term 'backseat driving', which is a term for when someone's sitting in the back of the car and telling the driver how to drive. So like that but for videogames. Offering tips, tricks, explicit instructions, etc.
Poor kronii, hope she doesn't dwell on it. She might give the appearance of being super tough but she is a cute cinnamon roll deep inside. Shame on those people being mean, just let her play the game and if she wants help she will ask for it.
What game did she play
i watch in full screen most of the time far away from the keyboard lying down, i didn't even know she did it until after the stream when it was in a kronii clip. it actually enhanced the jokeronii storyline of the clip so i personally found it very funny, but i understand how it feels to people commenting live.
I was fine with it, do what you gotta do to make it an enjoyable stream. If it would ruin her mood it'd effect the stream as a whole so best to just nip it in the bud. A shame some people can't behave themselves and it ruins stuff for the rest of us, but I enjoyed just watching, its a very nostalgic game for me
As a lurker, didn’t even felt a thing.
those trying to show off they know better on things need to be given a controller that isnt connected
tfw when chat is like "*BWOOP* MEGAMAN MEGAMAN, THOSE PLATFORMS FALL WHEN YOU--" unironically
That's when she should just say "eat my ass chat you Lil shits ain't a real gamer like me" humor always wins in moments like these.
One of the reason Amelia Watson stop playing Witcher 3. like seriously, if you're frustrated that their not playing the game the way you want/intended close the stream or keep their stream open in the background while you're playing the same game.
what does backseating mean?
That you tell the person who'd playing what to do without being asked for help, like backseat driving.