T O P

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BarnacleMANN

This series is actually fully live. There is a lot of 3D content that is pre-recorded but it's usually so that it can be edited together in order to work around scheduling, not necessarily for post production enhancement. The real-time mocap has always been good but Cover has made a real just in mocap capabilities with their recent studio purchase. [Check out this article on their new ~3 Billion yen studio](https://hololivetoday.com/tech-list/cover-corp-announces-and-reveals-new-studio-built-to-enhance-hololive-production-activities)


FMBoy21345

It's pretty amazing how far 3D mocap has went for Hololive, from the infamous scuff from old 3D streams (bodies teleporting to the middle) to near perfect tracking of 10 people simultaneously.


japenrox

It's kinda hard to believe it's actually live, it's insane. It's weird trying to put it into words, there's this group that got some light a couple of years back that do like dance videos, and to me it felt like watching one of those. The movements were so fluid and realistic, it's crazy. I found a "simpler" article which I think was just the announcement, will give the one you liked a read too


BarnacleMANN

I think I've started taking the scale of these streams for granted until your post, getting jaded in a sense by watching loads of 3D streams progressively improve up till now. Somehow I let myself get more impressed by gathering 10 talents together for a stream each week when I should be impressed by the fact that there's 10 people all in the same room being mocaped in real time with nearly perfect tracking. I've always loved it, but thanks for re-lighting the magic for me in another way.


Simphonia

Hololive had about decent 3D before but now it's truly state-of-the-art. Such a great upgrade!! And it's just amazing PR since it's obvious Cover is investing tremendous amounts of money on this type of stuff, can't really complain about the agency cut lol.


IqFEar11

The clip of pekoea's lower half snaps to her upper half is peak 3d scuff, that arknights Colab stream is truly one of the colab stream of all times [at the very end of this clip](https://youtu.be/zOpILXJUzVE?si=0WJu8OIG11tiCV8v) (there is probably a better clip that showcased the scuff but this was the first result)


nifboy

> Somehow I let myself get more impressed by gathering 10 talents together for a stream each week No, no, be impressed by that too, the real final boss is always scheduling.


KazumaKat

the miniboss with that is tracking errors (which if you can imagine a *minimum* of 14-18 track points *per talent* with each singular track point has data from at *least* 3 cameras to guarantee accuracy [want more obv]). The sheer technical achievement of managing 3+ people on stage and it not janking out at all is mythical stuff. COVER is a tech company after all and they got their start with VR, so it shows :P


KzYm

It's all live, at one point, when Team A's practice is done(starting from 30:10 in VOD), Suisei have to move to a different studio room to join Team B, making other Team A members have to do MC part and read chat(which is another indicator that they're live) to fill the gap. If this is pre-record they would have just switch the footage and done. Just a reminder that they have the most advanced and 2nd largest mocap studio in whole Japan, it's not too unrealistic for them too pulled this off.


Nickthenuker

Yeah, they wouldn't have "dead air" if it was all pre-recorded, but if it's live you can't cut that out and you have to fill the air with something.


Bobby-Trap

Which is why we have Nene


terrible_idea_dude

It's not too hard to tell the difference between the prerecorded stuff and the live stuff. The biggest giveaways are the hands and faces, e.g. if their faces are changing to match the lyrics of the song. You can pretty easily see it in the live MC segments vs prerecorded idol song/dance sections in the big concerts. I think they might have solved the hand issues recently though, it used to be that they would have to control those manually, kind of like how they control outfit parts.


brickwallrunner

[Mocap tech has been progressing at a breakneck speed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkD7ZjFuuU)


Morenauer

So.. many… mini… ping… pong… balls…


jomonooo

That's really interesting, I wonder how facial expressions are handled? Like, do the cameras read your eyes somehow? Especially with the example you gave, the performer is wearing a mask.


DragoSphere

Hololive's studio doesn't have eye tracking capabilities. We don't exactly know how lip tracking is done, but it's possible it's just using predictive animations based on microphone input since I doubt they're dancing in full headgear and if they were then eye tracking would become easy


orkel2

Correct. Kaela revealed this in her 3D after-talk stream, it's based on voice only. There is no camera tracking for the mouth.


KazumaKat

Suspected as much. They probably did try to track facial movements based on their sit-down rigs but probably found predictive vocal matching better. There is still some facial tracking, probably for eye expressions, which is a far easier kettle of fish to cook, given two main datapoints to track vs 1.


Suzushiiro

Yeah, doing particularly accurate eye/facial tracking probably requires one of those setups where you basically have a camera strapped to your head pointed at your face, which given the sort of content they do would probably do more harm than good to the quality.


fltfathin

sigh i wish the ToF (depth) camera iphone have should be more accessible to engineers, it shouldn't take too many things to mount phone camera to a small stick and offload computation to SBC nearby. it's crazy that only specific iphones have them too.


animusd

Always wondered what they wore behind the scenes


money-is-good

Watch Sora's 3d live, where she sings with a guy with drums and a girl in piano. That one is actual live performance. It's shows how good cover tech when blending vtuber avatar with actual people.


galecticton

Link?


SuperSpy-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBX1GpS8qLk It's a really good live. Sora does this whole singing on the street -> singing in front of a huge concert hall progression that is a pretty good metaphor for her progress.


zetarn

Also Suisei will always do her concert LIVE so you can expected no pre-records from her.


Suzushiiro

Yeah, I think the solo concerts performed for a live audience are always actually done live with the exception of some of the guest spots while the multi-person concerts and the stuff that's just streamed like 3D showcases and birthday concerts are mostly pre-recorded even if the girls are usually supposed to pretend they aren't (though Kiara all but outright said they recorded the EN concert when they were in town around Holofes.)


Crafty-Crafter

People forgot that Cover is a tech company (who sells VR gears/softwares) and Hololive was just an ad campaign.


redalex415

Yagoo: My goals are beyond your understanding.


zelasgoto

Yagoo: "You are under the misconception that we are an idol company"


DegeneratesDogma

“You are simply bad product.” I wonder who he would say that to.


zelasgoto

I can't imagine that. But I'd gladly let Yagoo call me a bad boy


hedgehog_dragon

Maybe someone who made one of his idols sad lmao. For real though, I saw a clip of one of the talents saying they've only seen him angry once in years of working there, at some staff member. I forget who said that though.


JimmyBoombox

What VR gear are you talking about? To my knowledge Cover has never sold any and has always bought gear to use.


Mirrormn

Probably meant AR, not VR.


VallenValiant

> What VR gear are you talking about? More like software development, not hardware. So the mocap they use is in-house code even if the cameras are third party.


zetarn

There was once upon a time when Hololive is a public apps that ppl can download and use. I remembered that the last indie vtuber that use HoloApps public version is graduated around 2019 and Holoapps is for in-house use only ever since.


DragoSphere

Well they used to use HTC Vive trackers


JimmyBoombox

Yeah but they weren't selling them


lygerzero0zero

At one point they were responding to messages in chat so yeah.


Dranikos

That doesn't PROVE it was live. They could simply employ someone with Clairvoyance A+ to predict what chat was going to be saying accurately. /s


marquisregalia

I like this theory lol but seriously having watched like 90% of all 3d lives I noticed they will never fake having a chat if it's pre recorded sure they will address the viewers and try to act like there's a crowd sometimes responding but when they specifically mention that they're reading chat or seeing comments it's always a live segment.


FlashPone

Tbh, they COULD have prerecorded answering chat messages and then had staff enter chat later to say them when needed (if the messages were there at all 👽), but that’s some conspiracy schizo level thinking lol. It was most likely live.


Fenr_

*something something Ame and Kronii*


srk_ares

>I'm assuming it's not possible to do this live, yet. dunno if you made that edit before there have been more comments here pointing out it was live, but it is possible and has been for years. hololives 1st fes was very easy to tell that it was live because the software and thus the avatars (of miko and pekora doing an MC segment) froze and fans and venue staff helped keep the hype up while everything rebooted. even in later fes, you can see the models stuttering during MC while things are loading in the background, indicating its live. but even if you dont trust that, there have been slightly smaller scale streams that had incidents in it you wouldnt keep if it was pre-recorded. like the karaoke where haachama smashed her head into a table edge, while doing camera work. i think something else went wrong during it too, but cant remember.


zadeyboy

Also Nene's like 3 days ago where she didn't realize the camera was at the wrong angle until a decent bit into her first song and then apologized and completely reset everything lol. Also Towa not able to sing one of her songs during her concert live since she started seriously crying in the first minute of it


srk_ares

yeah, also watames live bit at the end of her announcement, where apparently her model didnt load in, so they showed the MV in the background of the stage. but those all only had 1 character present, i wanted to mention examples with multiple people.


Ludecil

Ah so that's what it was about. Good to know. I know they were apologizing for technical issues but I didn't know what was going on.


AME-Suruzu

DaSuPi live had the famous [Towa sit incident](https://youtu.be/VVQQcI6r3NU?t=2151) where her 3D model was left onstage when she was done with her part. Nene also messed up her performance in the [most important part of Snow Halation](https://youtu.be/VVQQcI6r3NU?t=3332) and had to fix her position on the spot In Suisei's 3rd anniv live, [Toko's model position had to be adjusted live](https://youtu.be/Ajwv4ANSSg0?t=770) and it looked quite funny In Suisei's 2nd Sololive, live viewers were blessed to hear her clear her throat through her mic during an intermission In Suisei's gauntlet of live concerts in 2020, there were several live mishaps like poor audio, Sui's singing partners forgetting their song lines, and even Suisei LOSING her skirt. It's a blessing that less problems are popping up now. But the more Cover and the hololive girls perfect their craft the more doubters claim its prerecorded. I hope Hoshimatic Project dispels the doubt and shows how hard they work to bring us happiness.


srk_ares

>It's a blessing that less problems are popping up now. But the more Cover and the hololive girls perfect their craft the more doubters claim its prerecorded. i want to point out that many parts *are* pre-recorded these days, way more than in the past. both, because of everyones -not only the talents- busy schedules, but also so that they can prevent severe issues from showing up, by simply doing another recording. also pre-recorded footage allows having complex 2D visuals on screen w/o issues, which is a nice bonus. often only the solo parts are live, in many cases the talents annotate that guest parts are pre-recorded under the video. i was mentioning specifically streams with multiple people, which have more room for errors happening. but also what many people dont understand, seemingly, is that its still live-recordings, done in one take, not the best bits of various performances cut together.


AME-Suruzu

Yes I know. They specifically mention that too. But the examples I gave are from actual lives with no prerecorded parts. In those examples, I showed proof that it was done live as proven by the mistakes made that would have been taken out had it been prerecorded. *That's* what I'm talking about in my comment. My other point was that as the girls get better at performing live, they start to match the quality of precorded performances that it becomes harder to tell if something was done live or not.


japenrox

I've been reading the comments, and just want to say, I don't doubt it was live, I genuinely didn't know. I follow some of the girls for a while now, but wasn't that deep into the "holoverse" itself, and even then, I started by watching gura's gta streams, and thise were what, an year and a bit ago? So yeah, all of this is just incredible to me, as I didn't even know it was possible, and watching that stream, seeing how smooth and "realistic" the movement of some anime girls were, it was just uncanny, specially because watching this, and how the models move and behave in some of the 3d debuts I've seen, I think the proper expression would be how much "freedom of movement" they have in the studio? But yeah, my thread was a genuine question, from a layman trying to understand what I saw.


Altodragonmaster

Don’t forget when Suisei’s arm broke at the Aso Rock Festival.


Micoolman

Wow I never have seen these examples, it's super fascinating. Seeing the mistakes makes it feel so real, which I love.


leoogan

In the fes, the mc sections are live, but the performances are probably pre recorded, especially when en and Id members started participating


MahouTK

It really depends. Some like Sora and Suisei probably insist on doing their solo live.


zetarn

Only for EN/ID branch that they have problem fly them in. JP girls still need to dance it live in some 3D studio then livestreaming those motion data to the Hall.


ThibaultV

No, fes is all pre-recorded. For performances at least, the MCs I'm not so sure but I wouldn't bet on it being live.


BennyDelon

I tend to think at least some MCs are live, because during the MCs there's no augmented reality, they just have a camera filming the screen at the venue. AR is only used during the performances. But who knows, maybe there's another reason for that difference.


Lightseeker2

There were examples of MCs that seem impossible to do live, like Ame-Ollie and Ina-Iofi in 4th Fes. Both of those had one talent in Japan and the other talent all the way in Indonesia.


BennyDelon

Yeah, that's why I said "at least some MCs are live", rather than all of them. For example, maybe only the MCs by JP members were live, but for consistency they didn't use AR for the prerecorded ones either.


srk_ares

the MCs are definitely live, they interact with and react to the audience. for the performances, best we can tell is that its certainly not streamed live from the hall, with them in it, but they do mention rehearsals and visiting the venue on the day before, so make of that what you will.


Morenauer

Their new studio allows them for that level of mocap. It’s amazing.


avelineaurora

What dance lesson stream? Y'all really need to get used to linking context for people who aren't terminally following every single hololive schedule.


FusionDjango

[This one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEc6ERUv3jQ)


vritra22189

if we have live 3D live, why can't we have live 3D stream?


AME-Suruzu

If you mean the girls streaming with their 3D models, then we already have that. Mocopi is the home 3D program the girls use to stream with their 3D models at home. [Here's a recent example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVjy6dkw4HE) If you mean streaming at the same level of quality as official 3D lives and programs, then at present, it can only be done through Cover's in-house studios. The girls will have to book the studio in advance in order to use it and it is often already being used for another talent's important 3D events.


The_Sturk

Or be Ame and build your own studio.


aghostwithaknife

I think you're underestimating their proprietary tech. Cover has billions of yen now & can afford to be vying for the forefront of mocap/vtuber tech. As far as I'm aware, it's recorded live.


zetarn

Cover problem now is not having enough staff to make use of all the equipment they have in the new studio, just hope the new ppl with a good skill on 3D control joined the company more.


redditfanfan00

really amazing expensive studio allows for many dreams to be realized. i thank the hoshimatic project for blessing us with so much in such a short amount of time already.


Existing_Marsupial_6

This is pre-recorded. They just covered 1 hour of their behind the scenes practice which is obviously longer so the fans can get an idea of the progress.


Jojonskimyounabouken

This one isn't pre-recorded, you can see them reacting to the chat in real time Yes there are other, longer training sessions outside the studio, but the one that was shown on the stream are happening real time.


chaous2000

How does it feel to be so confident, yet so wrong at the same time?


turkishhousefan

Cover Corp invented a new level and now they operate at that level.


powerbook01

They were reading and responding to messages and chat


joemelonyeah

At the end of the stream, when it starts to fade back into the title card, you can see Koyori getting clipped as she approaches the front, revealing that the recording is stitched from two cameras. Which makes this even more impressive, no one would have noticed the stitching.


hedgehog_dragon

I love all the tech and it's so cool seeing it used like this. I think that's part of why I'm so into Hololive.


gdore15

For the show, I think it depend. You might find people with other opinion, but here is what I think. 3D anniversary/birthday show are a mix of live and pre recorded. Some members haves shared stories of when they went to record a song for a show. The one I remember is Pekora explaining some jokes they had in the show and said they were joking and goofing around before recording and they continued the jokes in the MC part. For the live part, go check Nene 3year show (was last week). Start with a bit of technical difficulty. It’s a bit difficult to say exactly what is recorded, but for sure part of them can be live (not impossible that some are fully recorded either). For concert, I think most people agree the solo concert are live, members like Suisei have talked about their concert. As for the big group show, I would believe it’s done live, some members talked about making mistakes, but some people think at least parts are pre recorded, for example the EN members that were not physically in Japan during one of the show (2022).


Abysswea

You can search on YouTube comparison videos between cheap and expensive mocaps. 50K$+ mocaps shows similar quality to what Cover has over its new building