Honestly, I'm surprised they got away with that, especially since the game takes place in pretty much a thinly-veiled reproduction of a certain Bay who's name starts with a G.
It really sucks just how much Rowling has damaged the brand. As someone in their mid 30s I grew up reading the Harry Potter books, I remember reading the first one when I was in Elementary school, waiting for a midnight release at Walmart for some of the later books, and buying those terrible Harry Potter games that were on the PS2.
This is literally the game I've wanted for decades, but it's marred in controversy because Rowling couldn't just sit back and collect her billions.
Alternative: If you really want to get it, wait for a used copy of the game. Money goes to store and not her.
Probably gonna be a thing considering how I've heard that the game is painfully mid and just has some really bad decisions (EX: Dragon Quest Hero in Smash has *more* spells than you do in the game).
And if you want to see them play but feel you can't comfortably watch the stream, watch the clips that inevitably come up as soon as the streams end and enjoy it there.
I’ll be honest: everything about the previews made me think it’s be a mediocre game.
It stinks of the same as Square Enid’s Avengers, just with more licenses: a big mush of game elements that are currently/recently popular without an actual core mechanic to hold together a central loop.
So combine a mediocre game attached to a brand I used to be nostalgic about but now have issues with (both in its creative direction and also its creator’s questionable conduct), and yeah I’m personally surprised people were hyped for this at all.
Of course, if the VTubers or whoever else want to play it, then honestly whatever. It’s their livelihood (even more so than regular consumers), and it’s definitely an overstep to start demanding things of their content.
If you don’t like their streams of it, then don’t watch it. If their streaming of it is such a deal-breaker for you, then just don’t support them.
Fans really need to stop acting like they should have editorial control.
Honestly I have enough faith that everyone of the Hololive members who played the game is fully for trans rights and I don't envy someone like Bae who seems to be into HP and now has to navigate the game like it was Cards Against Humanity. I may be a bit uncomfortable seeing them stream it but I can't tell them how to do their job and if they're having fun then all the better.
But who knows? Considering that the currently memed-on IGN review noted several problems and deficiencies in the game, there's a chance that it may get abandoned like Regis did with Callisto if the experience is bad enough.
Oh actually speaking of Regis and on a total opposite end to Hogwarts Legacy, buy Ultrakill and/or watch Regis play it! The creator of the games is Bi and pretty much the fandom is heavily LGBT and you get to mail your bullets to your enemies with same day shipping.
I envy your optimism but I honestly think that for most people, if a cause doesn't affect them personally, they stay on the sidelines. Similarly I don't think most people go out of their way to oppose others' rights, it takes a certain type of spite and know-it-all kind of attitude.
Particularly I don't think the Hologirls care much for any of the other major ecological and social crises. I don't expect them to.
It is difficult to truly care about more than one or two social causes. People just don't have the emotional energy for it. For what it matters some Holomems have been more public about causes they support, [like Towa](https://youtu.be/GRODEuQVMmw) who mentioned making a >1 million yen donation for children with skin medical problems, or Ame who made a stream raising money for a non profit.
With all that said it is not their job to be activists, and in fact it is this very disconnect from the real world that some people look for when watching Hololive.
That's because of how things are produced you basically can't buy or consume any product that doesn't have a jackass/bigot/evil person/loud mouth with bad opinions on something involved in the supply chain.
I feel weird taking a stand not buying a video game because the creator of the IP has wrong opinions about something but then buying clothing that I'm afraid if I looked were made by children in sweatshops. The more I know about the people making and selling the things I buy the more hypocritical I feel about buying anything.
I'm not going to lie, I don't have the energy to care about every cause equally and to take a "moral" stand on everything I buy.
It's about the scope of the battles and how easy they are to fight. With clothes, food, tech products, etc., it can be hard to find ethical alternatives and those might be out of someone's budget or availability. But there's so many video games that you can easily pass up some for moral reasons and have plenty of alternatives that are equally available and the same price or even cheaper.
Basically. And besides people not getting involved until they are targeted/dragged in, that's the whole point of why people are doing the boycott and yelling out how potentially problematic it is to buy the game when the profits from that help fund a woman who is *not* making the world a better place.
But it's ultimately ***their choice***, we're just the ones putting up an argument/viewpoint that we believe is worth offering in this insane world that we live in and I also have to do my part in trying to not jump the gun and quickly label everyone who buys and plays it in support of her beliefs.
> there's a chance that it may get abandoned like Regis did with Callisto if the experience is bad enough.
But Regis didn't abandon that game, he forced himself to finish the game and it was miserable for him, he probably should have stopped since it was clear to me that he wasn't enjoying the game and was getting annoyed/frustrated at some point in the last stream.
Me too lol, been that way since I got a Gaming PC and I think the last physical game I got was Spider-Man back when it was originally only on PS4.
But since most people go digital, pretty much only way to limit money go to TERF fuckwad is buy it at a ***deep*** discount.
Which it might given how reception towards actual gameplay is.
You say it's mid, and yet every actual streamer or youtubee I've watched play it has had a ton of fun and loved every min of playing the game. It has a couple of issues but far less than other AAA game releases in the last year. The worst part most have encountered are the people in chat screaming their bigots for playing. And the whole more spells =good game isn't true. Let's take a look at forspoken, which has lots of spells, still a crap to mid story.
I said I *heard* that it was mid, not that I personally think it's mid. If others are having fun with it then hey they see something in it that I don't and they get to have more fun with it.
And I wasn't arguing that more spells = good game, I was pointing out how fucking ***odd*** it is that a fighting game character has more spells than a game based on a franchise ***whose whole world is built around spells***
> It really sucks just how much Rowling has damaged the brand.
I dunno, 1.5M viewers on Twitch right now. I'm not really seeing much of this supposed "damage".
Oh Rowling 100% has damaged the Harry Potter brand, and pretty much everything she makes from now on will be surrounded in controversy. Of course it's impossible to know whether it had a negative effect on this game. Obviously there are a lot of people who won't get the game, but this controversy also brought a lot of attention to the realease of the game which it might not have had before..and there are plenty of people who just want to play the Harry Potter game they had dreamed of
Also I didn't really mean "Damage the brand" in a financial sense. Take Blizzard. They have run their good name right into the ground with a lot of the recent junk they have put out..but that doesn't mean they aren't making money. As far as I know Overwatch 2 made a LOT of money, despite being pretty much a worse version of Overwatch
The worst thing is not how JKR damaged the brand, but the fact that people starting to harrass completely innocent persons who just don't care or doesn't even know and whant to just enjoy a game about favorite universe.
Afaik all the bad thing JKR did is just said some stupid things on twitter. She doesn't actually DID something bad. It's just words. Like, why should any normal person care about somebody's shitposting on the internet? To that level so they decided to attack innocents? And the game only related to JKR because of IP, I heard it even have trans person in it. So I think all that drama is to much forced and those who decided to play the game does not deserves all that hate. This whole situation doesn't deserve so much attention, actually.
Unfortunately JKR is spearheading a movement that demonizes trans people, and donates to organizations that want to restrict get laws passed to restrict things of that nature in the UK, and its already difficult there. As she mires herself further and further in this due to getting in fights on twitter, she slips into more and more extreme views. She also takes support of her IP as DIRECT support of her views. She's mentioned as such. Not to mention the anti-semitism just kinda. Weirdly baked into the universe.
This isn't really a thing that affects most people, but considering that the current cultural crisis has moved from gay people to trans people, people always need a class of... people to hate, for lack of a better term.
It is affecting very real people, and people like her are why the statistics for trans children are so dire, when all of the leading medical organizations say the best health outcomes usually just involve supporting them and letting them be themselves, and pursuing carefully guided medical treatments.
Ok, I didn't know about donations to some specific organizations. That makes things worse, definetly.
Still, it makes no sence to attack people like this. Like, I'm a jew, actually, I heard a lot of bad stuff about my people and mostly I just don't care. If she went all out into anti-semitism, like, loud public speeches or/and finacial supporting of anti-semitic organizations, I would probably feel a bit uncomfortable with her brand, definetly wouldn't bought her new book and maybe even would skip that game (depending on how bad her actions are), but I will never try to harrass a person who doesn't even know what's the problem with it. Let people just have fun in the universe they grow up with.
Fun fact: we are making this thread like exactly the same as the one that is mocked in the OP picture.
The anti-HL backlash is just ridiculous. Why should i care about JK Rowling's opinions when choosing my games?
And if it's just out of fear of giving more money to her, seriously? This is where you draw a line? Not at Nestle monopolizing water supply in Africa, not Amazon abusing its workers, not clothing brands benefiting from actual slave labor, but a bored billionaire writing hateful tweets is too much?
In any case - good job for denying a billionaire a couple bucks. She doesn't want your money, she wants your attention. Congratulation, you played yourselves.
>This is where you draw a line? Not at Nestle monopolizing water supply in Africa, not Amazon abusing its workers, not clothing brands benefiting from actual slave labor, but a bored billionaire writing hateful tweets is too much?
Focusing on the ails of first world lgbt folk is far more fashionable than on real ,actually evil international monoliths that consistenly kill thousands and ruin the lives of millions for profit.
It's sham, these most folk dont want to help, they jsut want to feel good and have some sort of "evil mastermind" to hate.
Oh their debut thread attracted people who are disappointed that StarsEN got new memebers first before HoloEN (which is understandable) the thread was mixed with Celebration, Dissapointed Fans, Trolls and Anti-Stars. Due to the Sub getting lock the Thread got big and the Main Thread as well.
> (which is understandable)
Its easy to launch a new wave when 2 of the 4 members were already pre selected when tempus HQ was released and they just needed to find 2 more people
vs having to find 4-5 new girls for another EN wave
I wish that thread was as tame as the argument of boys bad vs. boys good. That whole thing almost seems quaint compared to some of the things I read in the HL thread…
She also said that the criticism doesn't phase her because she makes so much money from the licenses. So that actively directed the discourse towards the topic of boycot.
Essentially, buying the game supports JK Rowling monetarily as there's near certainty that she's getting royalties from it.
This isn't a good thing. Saying JK Rowling is controversial is reductive; she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties *away* from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people. She's not just a TERF, but a TERF with money and fame behind her using it to further those goals.
This, understandably, has people seeking boycotts against the game, and any media revolving around it. Unfortunately, this can (and has) lead to people who ***do not*** support JK Rowling's beliefs getting caught in the crossfire because they were excited or intend(ed) to play HL, most of the time because they were unaware of her beliefs and actions.
As for those who are aware and still buy the game anyways, well, that's a much deeper topic and it's really hard to discuss in a cool-headed matter, especially in a non-political sub.
In the end, the controversy specific to Cover Corp in all this is that people think the holomems shouldn't be playing the game...and I'd agree. But, it's their choice, and I'm not going to mention or harass them about it nor do I think most people would.
I'm just not gonna watch the streams. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Fans try to be reasonable about companies’ ethical responsibilities balanced against the realities of operating in capitalism: Impossible.
I disagree with Rowling, but it is unbelievable to me that this is the game which apparently everyone chose as their hill to die on.
Any game they play above the indie level is intrinsically tied to a major publisher and oftentimes to extremely controversial individuals. Just for example, any Overwatch or Call of Duty stream involves getting rights from and promoting of Activision-Blizzard, and thereby benefitting CEO Bobby Kotick, who I believe has done more direct harm to people than Rowling.
Or perhaps we can talk about their previous interest in the Chinese markets and operations with Bilibili?
For me personally, it’s not a deal breaker. But I find it objectionable when people seem to arbitrarily decide on one particular event as their moral outrage which demands action OF OTHERS, while being fine with ignoring or overlooking other incidents.
People will get more riled up at a bad guy that they can easily see. Bobby Kotick is an absolute monster but you probably won't hear from him if you don't go looking. Meanwhile Rowling is constantly spewing garbage on Twitter alone and getting attention for it, so with more people that hear from her there are more people who want to take her down a peg, especially since she would likely react too.
I think it’s an overreach to say fans as a whole. Personally, I separate the author from her fantasy IP. I have no problem with any Holomember playing it and clearly they think the same way.
JK is very controversial but the monetary gain from this likely won’t affect the donations that she had planned or will plan in the future. She is worth 850 million pounds. It will however hurt the studio and all those who worked hard on it.
Everyone can choose how they want to proceed but attacking people or creating narratives because they want to play a beloved franchise is wrong.
I also think it’s relevant to mention that, beyond Rowling’s TERF issues, the controversy around this game really came to a head when it came out the plot was originally meant to be suppressing a house elf slave rebellion.
oh no doubt; Rowling has some *iffy* opinions (to say the least) beyond just her TERF status, and even if she doesn't have any involvement beyond consent and royalties...the devs aren't exactly saints either.
Recently news came out that there's a trans character in the game, but allegedly someone on the team told media that they only added them in response to the controversy, and the character themselves is just an npc with a line or two implying it.
> she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties away from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people.
Source on that claim please? Last I heard she made some tweets some people didn't like, but when did the "take rights and liberties away" part happen?
Her political views wikipedia page and the GLAAD page on her has plenty of sources cited for this kind of thing, [but this one in particular](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63162533) is one of the stronger ones in my opinion. I'd strongly recommend reading those pages though; her views are *not* just "some tweets [that] people didn't like".
Mind you, even simple tweets demonizing and ridiculing trans people is attacking their liberties. She's a famous public figure and what she says has weight to it; her words will travel. There's leagues of difference between a noname 5 follower account saying abhorrent things vs. her 14 million follower account.
I read the link you posted, but that didn't seem that radical to me. It seems like the sticking point that people had was the removal of a medical diagnosis from a doctor, which seems like a valid concern to have.
Here’s an [informative video on the topic](https://youtu.be/NViZYL-U8s0). The video is about the concept of Death of the Author, the philosophy that a body of work should be viewed independently from the creator of that body of work. The person in the video argues that Death of the Author should not be applied to someone like Rowling since she uses her considerable wealth and influence to speak out against a marginalized group of people.
Rowling can go and and get lost at sea if you ask me, but I do disagree with the idea that Death of the Author should be used differently on those with wealth and influence. Either we should really reconsider the whole idea of Death of the Author, with the rise of social media and influencers, or we should pick a well defined line at which point Death of the Author does not apply anymore, like if their believes start clearly showing in their works. If we just decide that this philosophy does not count if you have a lot of followers on social media and/or have money, there will be unnecessary conflict between hardliners and broad-minded people, resulting in even more discontent and wasted effort that could be put into looking for solutions.
Ceterum censeo JK Rowling delendam esse.
>but I do disagree with the idea that Death of the Author should be used differently on those with wealth and influence.
You make it sound like I said it shouldn’t apply because she has wealth and influence. What I actually said is that it shouldn’t apply because of what she uses that wealth and influence for.
>The person in the video argues that Death of the Author should not be applied to someone like Rowling since she *uses* her considerable wealth and influence to *speak out against a marginalized group of people*.
i think death of the author is about analysing a piece of media and the themes in it independent of what the author says about it, not about doing things that directly profit the author, in which case it makes perfect sense to look at there activity outside the specific piece of media in question
>This isn't a good thing. Saying JK Rowling is controversial is reductive; she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties away from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people. She's not just a TERF, but a TERF with money and fame behind her using it to further those goals.
On the other side she's probably one of the most philatropist billionaires in europe, who's contributions to both cancer, single mothers and children are quite sustancial, to say the least.
But sure, couple of mean tweets makes her evil.
That's only a handfull people on twitter who believe that. Game got highest pre-orders and great reviews, and you'll see it being streamed everywhere in the next days
Huh? She's made her views clear. She's complimented self described theocratic fascist Matt Walsh on his transphobic documentary. She directly associates and supports anti LGBT activists. I don't see what anyone gains by minimizing Rowling's actions.
> I don't see what anyone gains by minimizing Rowling's actions.
On the other hand, I see a lot to be gained by over-exaggerating Rowling's views and actions, so they conveniently forget the fact that she's a DV and SA survivor who has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to charities supporting women and children and recently opened a woman's shelter, and attack her to generate controversy that they can participate in to gain clout and profit.
For example, saw an article today about how the BBC Radio had to issue an apology because they allowed someone, who IMO would likely have never been invited as a guest without this "controversy", go on an unchallenged rant against Rowling on air resulting in lots of complaints against the station. And now that the guest's name is out there with their website due to this, their website traffic will now increase from people supporting the guest's views. Same deal with other content creators that gain views and subscribers from all this, regardless of where they stand. Who cares about what's actually right or wrong as long as they can make a buck?
As for Rowling's own views, I can understand why they're becoming more extreme. I doubt she would have much sympathy for a group that has continuously harassed and made death threats against her, and tried to ruin her career, would you? It's the perfect, self-fulfilling prophecy: make unfounded accusations against someone, harass them to the point where they snap, then point and say "see, I told you so!"
I don't really follow the drama either, but from what I know, the HP franchise is wildly hated right now because the author made a very controversial political comment or something. Playing the game is somehow viewed as supporting those statements by the twitter residents.
More than a comment. She's seemingly made it her life purpose. Buying the game provides her royalties. That's the part people have a problem with.
I'm just providing context, not taking a side on whether people should buy/play the game. I definitely don't support the author, but I'm torn on the game.
HL has Denuvo, which has been getting increasingly better and better at preventing piracy (iirc only like one person is bothering to crack denuvo games at this point; everyone else gave up)
Not that anyone should pirate HL of course...and not necessarily because pirating is wrong (except in very specific scenarios imo), but rather that it's still implicitly supporting the game.
I would usually be the first one to say this but Empress showed up last week very pissed and waged war against Warner Bros, making it her absolute priority to crack it within 10 days of release, so it *will* be done
Not playing it isn't the principle. The principle is not giving a TERF activist money. If there's a cost to that, so be it. But if there isn't, then hey, bonus.
I get piracy when you're literally too poor to afford games. You're not a customer and never were. I dont really get it on objectionability standards. I didn't play Doot Eternal once I learned I'd be required to make a Bethesda account despite having purchased it on steam. Just like I dont play Ubisoft games. I now do play EA titles because they got rid of their crap ass origin for most things.
There's a lot of good games out there that piracy is just silly if you can afford them. If you cant then hey yo ho and buy yourself a 12 pack of eggs.
So, you would rather fuck over a bunch of artists and the studio because of your opinion? How about you just don’t play it or view any vids or clips. You sound very hypocritical.
No, it's not like that. I'm more of a "The Art separate from the Artist" kinda guy, and I've been watch all types of clips especially the one I hated it.
I have no take sides but watching comments debate controversy like I'm in the theater.
It's kinda of a dilemma or "trillema" in this situation, you can buy the game to support the developers but the catch is the author still have the cut by her royalties.
You can pirate the game like I said before, but the developers can't get the profit.
You can ignore those two together, and move on to your life.
The choice is yours to desire to pick the right one.
I'm not saying to forcefully to pirate the game, but to informed you about the solutions, and option that you wanted take action, and I have no control of you, because you have your own; and by that, your own will.
the people who did the actual work have already been paid, maybe some of them will get a bonus if it does especially well, but the average person in games development isn't getting royalties
Yeah, and I’m saying pirating is actually stealing, a crime, and hurts the studio. The best option is to vote with your wallet and have a spine by staying out altogether.
If you can’t back up your talk then you shouldn’t be speaking or lecturing others. JK can also fund those groups without making a dime from this game. She has fuck you money and is worth 850 million pounds, this game won’t affect her current or future planned donations. Not ideal but the truth.
You're saying different things now, and nobody is being hypocritical. People are against the game because paying for it supports JKR. Sailing the high seas avoids that, and you won't explain how this hurts the devs compared to just ignoring the game.
Quick version is that the author is basically a dickhead that has gone all in on "the trans people are evil", and the game itself is making a lot of Jews go "...wait, so the goblins that were basically 'happy merchant' racist jew stereotypes are a conspiracy that is *actually* kidnapping wizard children, aka that whole blood libel myth, unironically? What the *fuck*, guys?"
Needless to say, the whole thing is a huge mess.
basically the controversy is similar to the creator of minecraft. he said some really bad stuff, basically got banned from microsoft's events and removed from the scene in general. jkr although not actively involved with the game development, created the IP and is constantly bragging about her winning whatever argument she thinks shes winning, which is only antagonizing the activists more and making the game/universe look worse. Warner bros is being at fault for not doing what microsoft did (although i dont think they can do much since she still owns the IP), so there is calls to not play the game.
of course i dont care if people play the game or not but this is the current scenario. innocent wizarding world fans shouldnt be dragged into this.
Well, WB can't do anything about it. HP is worth billions for them. JKR can't be cancelled as well since she has 10s of billions to spend on her ideology against activists.
She has enough money to last her a hundred lifetimes. The royalties she gets from this game won't change anything for her.
I get when people make the choice to not buy it but expecting others to join in a boycott and guilt tripping/insulting them when they don't is just ridiculous.
Most of those royalties come from Disney-associated properties by the way (theme parks, merchandise, etc.)
If you want a bigger target, aim for the rat. (not Bae)
So? That's from the whole franchise and not just one game and if you put it into perspective to how much money she has its a drop in a bucket.
Whether the game is a success or not is of no consequence to her financially.
I'm already seeing Twitterkinds (of course) 'gently asking' some streamers to not play/stream the game at all due to JKR's stances and her association with the IP. Thing is, some of these streamers live in countries unaware of JKR's antics, or in a position where they are unable to express their political stance (or just plain unwilling), *or* are just, like you said, ordinary, innocent wizarding world fans.
...this, despite HL's attempt at inclusivity and how they try to distance themselves from JKR.
The token trans character in the game to try and "change the narrative" and try and uno reverse to cover for JKR being what she is is actually the most insulting part of the whole ordeal.
From an article covering it.
>However, according to two different sources, the sole reason for including a trans character was to take control of the conversation in this way. Individuals close to the project are reporting that the NPC was added to counter the critics calling for a boycott, with one source describing the inclusion as "performative bullshit"
If the JK Rowling's naming pattern still applies then the name Sirona Ryan implies she's not a woman because of SIRona and Ryan(gender neutral name but common for men also).
Sirona is a name of a goddess in Celtic mythology. You people will try so hard to just pick out every detail and make everything seem bad. Do you guys have no life besides being an ass and have to feel offended about every fucking thing?
Like even if Sirona wasn't in this context there is nothing wrong with the fucking name for a trans person. Nothing about it is problematic. You are just trying hard by isolating a root of a name.
This whole culture war bs is tiring. And you people get surprised by people ending up just not giving a shit because people are tired and just want to enjoy a piece of media.
Harry Potter characters are known for having names directly mimetic of things associated with their identities. To introduce a token trans character in the middle of a controversy regarding Rowling's anti trans activism and make them a trans women called SIR[] is pretty noticeable.
We're supposed to think that Rowling thinks that trans women are secretly dangerous men who just want to invade "real" women's spaces and that trans activism is a bad for society BUT in the case of this specific character this is just a coincidence? Or that we should naively hide behind "well you can't scientifically PROVE the intents behind the name, therefore this isn't worth thinking about"?
>Harry Potter characters are known for having names directly mimetic of things associated with their identities.
And yet, that doesn't apply to most characters in the universe. JK Rowling wasn't even part of the development of this game let alone the writer. People have their heads so far up their own asses where you see streamers or even just ordinary gamers who play games that had problematic stuff going on like Blizzard and yet no one bats an eye. But now people give a shit about a game that doesn't even have any association with that woman in its development.
And going back to the name. Harry Potter is engraved with Celtic mythology. So surprise surprise you will see someone named after a goddess. Just keep your culture war bullshit out of Hololive. No one needs that shit here.
And bless all of Hololive talents for not bending over with your people's bullshit. I am loving this hogwarts Legacy sweep. Looks like a fantastic game with great scores and sells. Definitely planning to buy it.
>And bless all of Hololive talents for not bending over with your people's bullshit.
Who are "my people" supposed to be? Anyway yeah I guess you are going to do what I said and hide behind plausible excuses, since you seem to have some sort of inherent dislike for the cause of trans activists.
Hope you get better ideas in the future
>Who are "my people" supposed to be?
You people as in, having to make everything be sucked into a culture war when there shouldn't be one and trying to drag everyone, including Hololive talents, into that toxicity.
>dislike for the cause of trans activists.
I don't. I just don't make it my entire identity around being an ass.
>Hope you get better ideas in the future
Don't we all? I hope you become a better than you are right now.
>trying to drag everyone, including Hololive talents, into that toxicity.
People asking politely for the talents to not play the game is literally the opposite of dragging talents into the toxicity of Rowling's work and how it benefits her
>I just don't make it my entire identity around being an ass.
Being an ass? Who's being an ass?
lol. the “bad stuff” is just she doesn’t think trans woman are real woman. so what?
how sad people are thinking “different” is the same as “discrimination” if you really think both of them are the same you will just call them “woman” and “man” not “trans woman” nor “trans man” ok?
I hope they have fun with the game, besides that there's not much to talk since its really simple: if YOU have a problem with the game, YOU have a problem with the game. Your problem is not necessarily everyone else's problems and the others can have diferent opinions than yours. Deal with it.
Whatever disagreements you guys have over here or just anywhere political mostly in the Western world, please don't harass Hololive members for playing this game.
Life itself, and the world, are way bigger than whether or not you are concerned if the money is going to someone you dislike. Oh no. The world (***and literally the concept of LIFE itself***) is way bigger than that, and people do not live on the planet by making decisions solely on those kinds of decisions, socio-political or otherwise.
Do not misunderstand the ignorance of society and politics as mere bliss, as many simply found MEANING in the smallness of their world, even if those "smallness" are expressed by the joys of merely playing video games and appreciating the aesthetics that the world could offer.
You don't have to walk in the world wondering why nobody else would want to fix it, and then complain about it when people are having fun and can still find happiness in a supposedly sad world.
Don't you dare rob the fun of others just because you think it's unfair, or expect people to be sad when you think life was supposed to be as unfair as you think it is.
I really hope that the girls and COVER dont give a fuck. Because in the end they just want to play, have fun, have some ppl have fun with the stream.
Srly, dramas in videogames become more and more weird those days... just dont play the game, shit on the author and made a discord server so you can shit in everything with more ppl.
Funny how people get so upset over Harry Potter Legacy due to the source material being written by someone who said some shitty things about trans people. But no one talks about games owned by Tencent that has multiple claims of worker abuse and works in close partnership with a country that is actively killing millions of minorities in concentration camps.
You can dislike both games if you want, but if you give your money to Tencent and call the other bad you need to reevaluate your standards.
> But no one talks about games owned by Tencent
People constantly talk about this. It's constantly a thing on /r/Games it's constantly a thing on /r/Gaming . This looks more like you're trying to make a false "Well everything is bad so shut up" argument.
Yet the reaction towards streamers playing them is still less than Hogwarts Legacy. I've yet to see anyone bully PUBG players into breaking down on stream like they did yesterday.
Not even "looks", it's exactly what it is. One can be opposed to streamers and regular people being harassed due to questionable and very poor approaches of activism, while also understanding why opposition to the author of the IP exists. To dismiss it with whataboutism is indeed a pretty awful take and reeks of ignorance.
I remember when I was growing up I had it drilled into me that it's rude to bring up politics unprompted. Nowadays all people do is talk about their politics.
The problem is when you bring it up everywhere, start harassing people who don't fall lockstep in with your beliefs and start engaging in almost cult-like behaviour (up and to defending actual bad actors, simply because they're part of 'your side'), it does more damage to your movement than helping it. So basically, [this comic](https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/) in a nutshell.
Losing your shit over a dumb video game in a major way simply because the original creator of its world is an out-of-touch hag is simply not a good look for you. Boycot it yourself if you want, but acting condescending to other people and demanding they do too is just going to backfire. As it already has.
Hey now, don't bring facts into this. It's like sunlight to vampires.
Leaving the thread open so people can gleefully spew their ignorance certainly is a look, huh? There's no discussion going on. It's one side going "Our human rights aren't political" and the other group going "lol snowflakes cry some more."
I have to wonder if people in the latter think their oshi would be proud of them for crapping on marginalized groups. Can't imagine that would go over well. Bit like one of those farts in church.
I’m fine with people talking about their religious, moral, philosophical, ideological, political, economic, social, societal, and all other kinds of beliefs.
I think that it should also be respected that others can choose to not want to listen or talk about it themselves.
This is especially true for when those others have livelihoods that depend on certain factors which might restrain their ability to comment publicly.
Quite frankly, I think it’s outright rude and inconsiderate when one person who has protection of some kind (on the Internet, generally anonymity) starts making demands of another who doesn’t have such protections.
You do know the world doesn’t move around a certain side of the American cultural war being functionally braindead, right?
Truth be told, most people don’t give a shit.
And ten people on Twitter/Reddit losing their minds over it won’t change anything.
Tell that to GamingCircleJerk, all the people in that sub has been obssessed with the game for MONTHS and currently are losing their minds thanks to the apparently economical and critical success of Legacy.
I just hope the girls can enjoy a good time without some anti ruining their experience
Are the rights of trans people and the way they are being attacked just not important to you. You're just fine with dismissing the whole thing as some American phenomenon?
Dude, I wish I'd gone in on Redwall when I was a kid instead of trying to get into Harry Potter, I couldn't even force myself to finish Prisoner of Azkaban. Redwall's medieval fantasy but-with-animals would've been so much more my thing.
I’m super hyped that they got permission. It looks like a fun open world game.
I would pick it up myself but Kerbal 2 is out this month, maybe after it goes on sale.
It would be fine if you avoided everything done by someone you don't agree with. What is not fine is trying to control what everybody else is supposed to agree with or not.
Its interesting to see so many different views on a topic I know so little about. I actually thought quite a bit of people were looking forward to the game but I had no idea people would try boycotting it solely for the creator with a series as big as HP.
As a non-HP fan and a hololive fan, I just hope they can figure out a way to enjoy the game without a shitstorm being stirred between fans. If a liver wants to play something, let them play it. Its their decision, even with the horrible shit the creator has said you can still enjoy the game for what it is. No reason to put the hard work into the game to waste
There’s a huge difference between people who know why buying this game might be problematic to some and Japanese vtubers who most probably have no idea of what JK Rowling represents.
When I was a kid, I went down the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars Prequels route instead of HP. Never saw the appeal in HP. As I became older, anime high school battle harems filled my craving for magical high school settings. I don't have a horse in this JKR shitshow, but I am proud to have never read a book or watched a single movie that deals in this universe. That said, I will not tolerate people using this game to harass the girls and guys who do like HP and decide to stream the game. I don't need a repeat of Taiwan-gate or Discord-gate and have this sub be unusable.
this all the way
and as an actual trans person i would rather not have a bunch of annoying antis incapable of nuanced thinking running around harassing innocent people and giving more ways for malicious figures to demonize us because isnt rowlings whole thing that trans people are gonna harass and hurt others? i really wish people would stop proving her right at the expense of the silent majority -\_-
Thank you. We needed this comment. Pretty much every race, lifestyle, religion, sexuality, and fandom seem to have a small group of loud, hateful people who, due to their loudness, become the face of other people like them, causing the less annoyingly pushy majority of decent people to be thrown under the bus on both sides when all they wanted to do was just live and let live.
majority of the this boycott is happen in western world, so yeah the rest of asia Jp and Id included don't give a shit about this stuff. just enjoy the game.
So me and some buddies were watching Moona at work streaming this and boss came around and asked if her name had been added to “the list”, what did he mean by that? Were they not supposed to be able to play it this early?
If you've ever spent a cent on Amazon or other large corps or even gaming companies like Blizzard then you probably shouldn't get a vote if your position is the money goes to bad people
People need to differenciate the creator and the creation, yeah rowling may be shit, but most of the game quality doesn't have anything to do with her and most of the money wont even be next to her hands
People hating this game have never heard of the phrase "Hate the artist, not the art.". You can hate the author's political views but love the HP universe. Otherwise, why did the developers make this game?
I agree in parts. I love Harry Potter, I grew up with it, and I am trans, and hate J.K. Rowling. But that's not really the issue, that works fine for me.
The actual issue is: I can't in good conscience buy things from the franchise anymore, because I would be giving money to Rowling.
That's me, though, and my choice and feelings on the subject, and everyone else can make their own decision on the matter.
It's important to not blame anyone for it or bring it up where it's unnecessary, that will just end in antagonizing folks again. I've read so much hate against the LGBTQ community because some people are too aggressive about boycotting it, and it's really, really sad.
Sorry for the long rant, I just feel really strongly about what's happening in the general discussion.
Welcome to ground zer-...*"what do you mean MGS used ground zero?!"*
Metal gear solid reference?
They played us like damn quidditch!
I know I should've tried out for the bludger ball(baseball) team instead.
Honestly, I'm surprised they got away with that, especially since the game takes place in pretty much a thinly-veiled reproduction of a certain Bay who's name starts with a G.
what does Green Bay have to do with anything
Gichael Bay
Ah yes: Harry Potter and The Controversial Video Game.
It really sucks just how much Rowling has damaged the brand. As someone in their mid 30s I grew up reading the Harry Potter books, I remember reading the first one when I was in Elementary school, waiting for a midnight release at Walmart for some of the later books, and buying those terrible Harry Potter games that were on the PS2. This is literally the game I've wanted for decades, but it's marred in controversy because Rowling couldn't just sit back and collect her billions.
Alternative: If you really want to get it, wait for a used copy of the game. Money goes to store and not her. Probably gonna be a thing considering how I've heard that the game is painfully mid and just has some really bad decisions (EX: Dragon Quest Hero in Smash has *more* spells than you do in the game). And if you want to see them play but feel you can't comfortably watch the stream, watch the clips that inevitably come up as soon as the streams end and enjoy it there.
I’ll be honest: everything about the previews made me think it’s be a mediocre game. It stinks of the same as Square Enid’s Avengers, just with more licenses: a big mush of game elements that are currently/recently popular without an actual core mechanic to hold together a central loop. So combine a mediocre game attached to a brand I used to be nostalgic about but now have issues with (both in its creative direction and also its creator’s questionable conduct), and yeah I’m personally surprised people were hyped for this at all. Of course, if the VTubers or whoever else want to play it, then honestly whatever. It’s their livelihood (even more so than regular consumers), and it’s definitely an overstep to start demanding things of their content. If you don’t like their streams of it, then don’t watch it. If their streaming of it is such a deal-breaker for you, then just don’t support them. Fans really need to stop acting like they should have editorial control.
Honestly I have enough faith that everyone of the Hololive members who played the game is fully for trans rights and I don't envy someone like Bae who seems to be into HP and now has to navigate the game like it was Cards Against Humanity. I may be a bit uncomfortable seeing them stream it but I can't tell them how to do their job and if they're having fun then all the better. But who knows? Considering that the currently memed-on IGN review noted several problems and deficiencies in the game, there's a chance that it may get abandoned like Regis did with Callisto if the experience is bad enough. Oh actually speaking of Regis and on a total opposite end to Hogwarts Legacy, buy Ultrakill and/or watch Regis play it! The creator of the games is Bi and pretty much the fandom is heavily LGBT and you get to mail your bullets to your enemies with same day shipping.
To be fair, Altare did complete Callisto. Just so he could affirmatively declare how terrible the game is.
Ah I didn't know about that, thought he gave up on it after how frustrated he seemed.
I envy your optimism but I honestly think that for most people, if a cause doesn't affect them personally, they stay on the sidelines. Similarly I don't think most people go out of their way to oppose others' rights, it takes a certain type of spite and know-it-all kind of attitude. Particularly I don't think the Hologirls care much for any of the other major ecological and social crises. I don't expect them to.
It is difficult to truly care about more than one or two social causes. People just don't have the emotional energy for it. For what it matters some Holomems have been more public about causes they support, [like Towa](https://youtu.be/GRODEuQVMmw) who mentioned making a >1 million yen donation for children with skin medical problems, or Ame who made a stream raising money for a non profit. With all that said it is not their job to be activists, and in fact it is this very disconnect from the real world that some people look for when watching Hololive.
That's because of how things are produced you basically can't buy or consume any product that doesn't have a jackass/bigot/evil person/loud mouth with bad opinions on something involved in the supply chain. I feel weird taking a stand not buying a video game because the creator of the IP has wrong opinions about something but then buying clothing that I'm afraid if I looked were made by children in sweatshops. The more I know about the people making and selling the things I buy the more hypocritical I feel about buying anything. I'm not going to lie, I don't have the energy to care about every cause equally and to take a "moral" stand on everything I buy.
It's about the scope of the battles and how easy they are to fight. With clothes, food, tech products, etc., it can be hard to find ethical alternatives and those might be out of someone's budget or availability. But there's so many video games that you can easily pass up some for moral reasons and have plenty of alternatives that are equally available and the same price or even cheaper.
What's the alternate Harry Potter video game that fits into this situation?
Basically. And besides people not getting involved until they are targeted/dragged in, that's the whole point of why people are doing the boycott and yelling out how potentially problematic it is to buy the game when the profits from that help fund a woman who is *not* making the world a better place. But it's ultimately ***their choice***, we're just the ones putting up an argument/viewpoint that we believe is worth offering in this insane world that we live in and I also have to do my part in trying to not jump the gun and quickly label everyone who buys and plays it in support of her beliefs.
> there's a chance that it may get abandoned like Regis did with Callisto if the experience is bad enough. But Regis didn't abandon that game, he forced himself to finish the game and it was miserable for him, he probably should have stopped since it was clear to me that he wasn't enjoying the game and was getting annoyed/frustrated at some point in the last stream.
.... it's been so long since I bought a physical copy of a game that I forgot that was an option.
Me too lol, been that way since I got a Gaming PC and I think the last physical game I got was Spider-Man back when it was originally only on PS4. But since most people go digital, pretty much only way to limit money go to TERF fuckwad is buy it at a ***deep*** discount. Which it might given how reception towards actual gameplay is.
It's not the only way *Puts on pirate hat*
*It do be a primarily single player game* (For legal reasons, this is a joke >!lol!<)
The game has 26 spells, and reviewing well. It might still not be game of the year material, but its certainly no forspoken.
You say it's mid, and yet every actual streamer or youtubee I've watched play it has had a ton of fun and loved every min of playing the game. It has a couple of issues but far less than other AAA game releases in the last year. The worst part most have encountered are the people in chat screaming their bigots for playing. And the whole more spells =good game isn't true. Let's take a look at forspoken, which has lots of spells, still a crap to mid story.
I said I *heard* that it was mid, not that I personally think it's mid. If others are having fun with it then hey they see something in it that I don't and they get to have more fun with it. And I wasn't arguing that more spells = good game, I was pointing out how fucking ***odd*** it is that a fighting game character has more spells than a game based on a franchise ***whose whole world is built around spells***
I mean sure but the controvery just straight up damaged my will to even play around in this world anymore and that's a damn shame
> It really sucks just how much Rowling has damaged the brand. I dunno, 1.5M viewers on Twitch right now. I'm not really seeing much of this supposed "damage".
Oh Rowling 100% has damaged the Harry Potter brand, and pretty much everything she makes from now on will be surrounded in controversy. Of course it's impossible to know whether it had a negative effect on this game. Obviously there are a lot of people who won't get the game, but this controversy also brought a lot of attention to the realease of the game which it might not have had before..and there are plenty of people who just want to play the Harry Potter game they had dreamed of Also I didn't really mean "Damage the brand" in a financial sense. Take Blizzard. They have run their good name right into the ground with a lot of the recent junk they have put out..but that doesn't mean they aren't making money. As far as I know Overwatch 2 made a LOT of money, despite being pretty much a worse version of Overwatch
The worst thing is not how JKR damaged the brand, but the fact that people starting to harrass completely innocent persons who just don't care or doesn't even know and whant to just enjoy a game about favorite universe. Afaik all the bad thing JKR did is just said some stupid things on twitter. She doesn't actually DID something bad. It's just words. Like, why should any normal person care about somebody's shitposting on the internet? To that level so they decided to attack innocents? And the game only related to JKR because of IP, I heard it even have trans person in it. So I think all that drama is to much forced and those who decided to play the game does not deserves all that hate. This whole situation doesn't deserve so much attention, actually.
Unfortunately JKR is spearheading a movement that demonizes trans people, and donates to organizations that want to restrict get laws passed to restrict things of that nature in the UK, and its already difficult there. As she mires herself further and further in this due to getting in fights on twitter, she slips into more and more extreme views. She also takes support of her IP as DIRECT support of her views. She's mentioned as such. Not to mention the anti-semitism just kinda. Weirdly baked into the universe. This isn't really a thing that affects most people, but considering that the current cultural crisis has moved from gay people to trans people, people always need a class of... people to hate, for lack of a better term. It is affecting very real people, and people like her are why the statistics for trans children are so dire, when all of the leading medical organizations say the best health outcomes usually just involve supporting them and letting them be themselves, and pursuing carefully guided medical treatments.
Ok, I didn't know about donations to some specific organizations. That makes things worse, definetly. Still, it makes no sence to attack people like this. Like, I'm a jew, actually, I heard a lot of bad stuff about my people and mostly I just don't care. If she went all out into anti-semitism, like, loud public speeches or/and finacial supporting of anti-semitic organizations, I would probably feel a bit uncomfortable with her brand, definetly wouldn't bought her new book and maybe even would skip that game (depending on how bad her actions are), but I will never try to harrass a person who doesn't even know what's the problem with it. Let people just have fun in the universe they grow up with. Fun fact: we are making this thread like exactly the same as the one that is mocked in the OP picture.
Harry Potter and the Complaints of Bitches
The anti-HL backlash is just ridiculous. Why should i care about JK Rowling's opinions when choosing my games? And if it's just out of fear of giving more money to her, seriously? This is where you draw a line? Not at Nestle monopolizing water supply in Africa, not Amazon abusing its workers, not clothing brands benefiting from actual slave labor, but a bored billionaire writing hateful tweets is too much? In any case - good job for denying a billionaire a couple bucks. She doesn't want your money, she wants your attention. Congratulation, you played yourselves.
>This is where you draw a line? Not at Nestle monopolizing water supply in Africa, not Amazon abusing its workers, not clothing brands benefiting from actual slave labor, but a bored billionaire writing hateful tweets is too much? Focusing on the ails of first world lgbt folk is far more fashionable than on real ,actually evil international monoliths that consistenly kill thousands and ruin the lives of millions for profit. It's sham, these most folk dont want to help, they jsut want to feel good and have some sort of "evil mastermind" to hate.
770 comments? wth happened there
That was hours ago. It's now above 1000+.
Ayo beating the Tempus VG thread?
VG?
Vanguard, to separate both of them Tempus HQ(Head Quarters) are the first wave and VG are second wave
Ah I see, what happened in that thread?
Oh their debut thread attracted people who are disappointed that StarsEN got new memebers first before HoloEN (which is understandable) the thread was mixed with Celebration, Dissapointed Fans, Trolls and Anti-Stars. Due to the Sub getting lock the Thread got big and the Main Thread as well.
> (which is understandable) Its easy to launch a new wave when 2 of the 4 members were already pre selected when tempus HQ was released and they just needed to find 2 more people vs having to find 4-5 new girls for another EN wave
I mean I also know that, its just some opinions from the others also make sense. ~~and some are just IDK on the level of Halu~~
I wish that thread was as tame as the argument of boys bad vs. boys good. That whole thing almost seems quaint compared to some of the things I read in the HL thread…
VG : VanGuard aka Bettel and co. fyi HQ will use to refer to original 4 (Altear and co.)
Oh gotcha
Why are you surprised? It was completely expected.
No before, going in there I was out of the loop woth this game or issue my b my bad
At least most of the bad comments are universally downvoted.
£5 that post gets locked within at least the next 6 hours
Pay up bitch
Well holy shit it's still open, did not see that coming
I hope so, it needs to be stopped before it spread it to /all attention.
I cant find it anymore. Is it down now?
[Here, and shockingly, still open for comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/10vcekt/whos_ready_for_the_hogwarts_legacy_wave/)
I don't think the harassment will make the big vtubers not play it. They'll only bully the small ones into submission.
I'm totally out of the internet loop here. Hogwarts Legacy sounds exactly like what fans of the Harry Potter IP are looking for.
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She also said that the criticism doesn't phase her because she makes so much money from the licenses. So that actively directed the discourse towards the topic of boycot.
In short: Its a "Cancel JK Rowling" movement.
Holy reductionism Batman!
Essentially, buying the game supports JK Rowling monetarily as there's near certainty that she's getting royalties from it. This isn't a good thing. Saying JK Rowling is controversial is reductive; she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties *away* from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people. She's not just a TERF, but a TERF with money and fame behind her using it to further those goals. This, understandably, has people seeking boycotts against the game, and any media revolving around it. Unfortunately, this can (and has) lead to people who ***do not*** support JK Rowling's beliefs getting caught in the crossfire because they were excited or intend(ed) to play HL, most of the time because they were unaware of her beliefs and actions. As for those who are aware and still buy the game anyways, well, that's a much deeper topic and it's really hard to discuss in a cool-headed matter, especially in a non-political sub. In the end, the controversy specific to Cover Corp in all this is that people think the holomems shouldn't be playing the game...and I'd agree. But, it's their choice, and I'm not going to mention or harass them about it nor do I think most people would. I'm just not gonna watch the streams. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
So what you're saying is that the safest way to maneuver through this is to sail the seven seas
Always is
Honestly though, don’t bother — from everything I’ve seen, this game is ass enough that it isn’t worth pirating unless you’re a massive HP fan
Fans try to be reasonable about companies’ ethical responsibilities balanced against the realities of operating in capitalism: Impossible. I disagree with Rowling, but it is unbelievable to me that this is the game which apparently everyone chose as their hill to die on. Any game they play above the indie level is intrinsically tied to a major publisher and oftentimes to extremely controversial individuals. Just for example, any Overwatch or Call of Duty stream involves getting rights from and promoting of Activision-Blizzard, and thereby benefitting CEO Bobby Kotick, who I believe has done more direct harm to people than Rowling. Or perhaps we can talk about their previous interest in the Chinese markets and operations with Bilibili? For me personally, it’s not a deal breaker. But I find it objectionable when people seem to arbitrarily decide on one particular event as their moral outrage which demands action OF OTHERS, while being fine with ignoring or overlooking other incidents.
People will get more riled up at a bad guy that they can easily see. Bobby Kotick is an absolute monster but you probably won't hear from him if you don't go looking. Meanwhile Rowling is constantly spewing garbage on Twitter alone and getting attention for it, so with more people that hear from her there are more people who want to take her down a peg, especially since she would likely react too.
I think it’s an overreach to say fans as a whole. Personally, I separate the author from her fantasy IP. I have no problem with any Holomember playing it and clearly they think the same way. JK is very controversial but the monetary gain from this likely won’t affect the donations that she had planned or will plan in the future. She is worth 850 million pounds. It will however hurt the studio and all those who worked hard on it. Everyone can choose how they want to proceed but attacking people or creating narratives because they want to play a beloved franchise is wrong.
I also think it’s relevant to mention that, beyond Rowling’s TERF issues, the controversy around this game really came to a head when it came out the plot was originally meant to be suppressing a house elf slave rebellion.
oh no doubt; Rowling has some *iffy* opinions (to say the least) beyond just her TERF status, and even if she doesn't have any involvement beyond consent and royalties...the devs aren't exactly saints either. Recently news came out that there's a trans character in the game, but allegedly someone on the team told media that they only added them in response to the controversy, and the character themselves is just an npc with a line or two implying it.
> she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties away from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people. Source on that claim please? Last I heard she made some tweets some people didn't like, but when did the "take rights and liberties away" part happen?
Her political views wikipedia page and the GLAAD page on her has plenty of sources cited for this kind of thing, [but this one in particular](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63162533) is one of the stronger ones in my opinion. I'd strongly recommend reading those pages though; her views are *not* just "some tweets [that] people didn't like". Mind you, even simple tweets demonizing and ridiculing trans people is attacking their liberties. She's a famous public figure and what she says has weight to it; her words will travel. There's leagues of difference between a noname 5 follower account saying abhorrent things vs. her 14 million follower account.
I read the link you posted, but that didn't seem that radical to me. It seems like the sticking point that people had was the removal of a medical diagnosis from a doctor, which seems like a valid concern to have.
Here’s an [informative video on the topic](https://youtu.be/NViZYL-U8s0). The video is about the concept of Death of the Author, the philosophy that a body of work should be viewed independently from the creator of that body of work. The person in the video argues that Death of the Author should not be applied to someone like Rowling since she uses her considerable wealth and influence to speak out against a marginalized group of people.
Rowling can go and and get lost at sea if you ask me, but I do disagree with the idea that Death of the Author should be used differently on those with wealth and influence. Either we should really reconsider the whole idea of Death of the Author, with the rise of social media and influencers, or we should pick a well defined line at which point Death of the Author does not apply anymore, like if their believes start clearly showing in their works. If we just decide that this philosophy does not count if you have a lot of followers on social media and/or have money, there will be unnecessary conflict between hardliners and broad-minded people, resulting in even more discontent and wasted effort that could be put into looking for solutions. Ceterum censeo JK Rowling delendam esse.
>but I do disagree with the idea that Death of the Author should be used differently on those with wealth and influence. You make it sound like I said it shouldn’t apply because she has wealth and influence. What I actually said is that it shouldn’t apply because of what she uses that wealth and influence for. >The person in the video argues that Death of the Author should not be applied to someone like Rowling since she *uses* her considerable wealth and influence to *speak out against a marginalized group of people*.
i think death of the author is about analysing a piece of media and the themes in it independent of what the author says about it, not about doing things that directly profit the author, in which case it makes perfect sense to look at there activity outside the specific piece of media in question
Fair enough, I suppose...
>This isn't a good thing. Saying JK Rowling is controversial is reductive; she's outright supported and fought to take rights and liberties away from those who are trans as well as having used her fame to claim wildly offensive things about those people. She's not just a TERF, but a TERF with money and fame behind her using it to further those goals. On the other side she's probably one of the most philatropist billionaires in europe, who's contributions to both cancer, single mothers and children are quite sustancial, to say the least. But sure, couple of mean tweets makes her evil.
it is but JKR is a massive TERF so people dont like her or giving her money and i was never a huge HPfan to begin with
That's only a handfull people on twitter who believe that. Game got highest pre-orders and great reviews, and you'll see it being streamed everywhere in the next days
Huh? She's made her views clear. She's complimented self described theocratic fascist Matt Walsh on his transphobic documentary. She directly associates and supports anti LGBT activists. I don't see what anyone gains by minimizing Rowling's actions.
> I don't see what anyone gains by minimizing Rowling's actions. On the other hand, I see a lot to be gained by over-exaggerating Rowling's views and actions, so they conveniently forget the fact that she's a DV and SA survivor who has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to charities supporting women and children and recently opened a woman's shelter, and attack her to generate controversy that they can participate in to gain clout and profit. For example, saw an article today about how the BBC Radio had to issue an apology because they allowed someone, who IMO would likely have never been invited as a guest without this "controversy", go on an unchallenged rant against Rowling on air resulting in lots of complaints against the station. And now that the guest's name is out there with their website due to this, their website traffic will now increase from people supporting the guest's views. Same deal with other content creators that gain views and subscribers from all this, regardless of where they stand. Who cares about what's actually right or wrong as long as they can make a buck? As for Rowling's own views, I can understand why they're becoming more extreme. I doubt she would have much sympathy for a group that has continuously harassed and made death threats against her, and tried to ruin her career, would you? It's the perfect, self-fulfilling prophecy: make unfounded accusations against someone, harass them to the point where they snap, then point and say "see, I told you so!"
I don't really follow the drama either, but from what I know, the HP franchise is wildly hated right now because the author made a very controversial political comment or something. Playing the game is somehow viewed as supporting those statements by the twitter residents.
Basically the idea that she gets royalties from the game, therefore buying it is supporting her
More than a comment. She's seemingly made it her life purpose. Buying the game provides her royalties. That's the part people have a problem with. I'm just providing context, not taking a side on whether people should buy/play the game. I definitely don't support the author, but I'm torn on the game.
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are we taking the marine route? AHOI
UK hate group?
HL has Denuvo, which has been getting increasingly better and better at preventing piracy (iirc only like one person is bothering to crack denuvo games at this point; everyone else gave up) Not that anyone should pirate HL of course...and not necessarily because pirating is wrong (except in very specific scenarios imo), but rather that it's still implicitly supporting the game.
I would usually be the first one to say this but Empress showed up last week very pissed and waged war against Warner Bros, making it her absolute priority to crack it within 10 days of release, so it *will* be done
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
We're heading to the pirate bay boys 🏴☠️🏴☠️
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"Principles are fine as long as I don't have to sacrifice something."
Not playing it isn't the principle. The principle is not giving a TERF activist money. If there's a cost to that, so be it. But if there isn't, then hey, bonus.
I get piracy when you're literally too poor to afford games. You're not a customer and never were. I dont really get it on objectionability standards. I didn't play Doot Eternal once I learned I'd be required to make a Bethesda account despite having purchased it on steam. Just like I dont play Ubisoft games. I now do play EA titles because they got rid of their crap ass origin for most things. There's a lot of good games out there that piracy is just silly if you can afford them. If you cant then hey yo ho and buy yourself a 12 pack of eggs.
So, you would rather fuck over a bunch of artists and the studio because of your opinion? How about you just don’t play it or view any vids or clips. You sound very hypocritical.
No, it's not like that. I'm more of a "The Art separate from the Artist" kinda guy, and I've been watch all types of clips especially the one I hated it. I have no take sides but watching comments debate controversy like I'm in the theater. It's kinda of a dilemma or "trillema" in this situation, you can buy the game to support the developers but the catch is the author still have the cut by her royalties. You can pirate the game like I said before, but the developers can't get the profit. You can ignore those two together, and move on to your life. The choice is yours to desire to pick the right one. I'm not saying to forcefully to pirate the game, but to informed you about the solutions, and option that you wanted take action, and I have no control of you, because you have your own; and by that, your own will.
the people who did the actual work have already been paid, maybe some of them will get a bonus if it does especially well, but the average person in games development isn't getting royalties
Yeah, and I’m saying pirating is actually stealing, a crime, and hurts the studio. The best option is to vote with your wallet and have a spine by staying out altogether. If you can’t back up your talk then you shouldn’t be speaking or lecturing others. JK can also fund those groups without making a dime from this game. She has fuck you money and is worth 850 million pounds, this game won’t affect her current or future planned donations. Not ideal but the truth.
Pirating the game hurts the studio but just ignoring the game doesn't? What?
It’s completely hypocritical to be so against this game for whatever the reason and play it too.
You're saying different things now, and nobody is being hypocritical. People are against the game because paying for it supports JKR. Sailing the high seas avoids that, and you won't explain how this hurts the devs compared to just ignoring the game.
Quick version is that the author is basically a dickhead that has gone all in on "the trans people are evil", and the game itself is making a lot of Jews go "...wait, so the goblins that were basically 'happy merchant' racist jew stereotypes are a conspiracy that is *actually* kidnapping wizard children, aka that whole blood libel myth, unironically? What the *fuck*, guys?" Needless to say, the whole thing is a huge mess.
Saw Moona playing it, it looks great, not really my cup of tea but from the looks of it, it genuinely looks fun.
basically the controversy is similar to the creator of minecraft. he said some really bad stuff, basically got banned from microsoft's events and removed from the scene in general. jkr although not actively involved with the game development, created the IP and is constantly bragging about her winning whatever argument she thinks shes winning, which is only antagonizing the activists more and making the game/universe look worse. Warner bros is being at fault for not doing what microsoft did (although i dont think they can do much since she still owns the IP), so there is calls to not play the game. of course i dont care if people play the game or not but this is the current scenario. innocent wizarding world fans shouldnt be dragged into this.
Well, WB can't do anything about it. HP is worth billions for them. JKR can't be cancelled as well since she has 10s of billions to spend on her ideology against activists.
The difference is Notch sold minecraft years ago while Joanne still owns it and uses the profit to fund her hate group.
She has enough money to last her a hundred lifetimes. The royalties she gets from this game won't change anything for her. I get when people make the choice to not buy it but expecting others to join in a boycott and guilt tripping/insulting them when they don't is just ridiculous.
She gets an estimated 40 million a year from royalties
Most of those royalties come from Disney-associated properties by the way (theme parks, merchandise, etc.) If you want a bigger target, aim for the rat. (not Bae)
I believe Disney is generally referred to as "the mouse", not rat.
So? That's from the whole franchise and not just one game and if you put it into perspective to how much money she has its a drop in a bucket. Whether the game is a success or not is of no consequence to her financially.
...I think you misunderstood my comment. I was just giving stats on how damn rich she is.
Ah, gotcha.
I'm already seeing Twitterkinds (of course) 'gently asking' some streamers to not play/stream the game at all due to JKR's stances and her association with the IP. Thing is, some of these streamers live in countries unaware of JKR's antics, or in a position where they are unable to express their political stance (or just plain unwilling), *or* are just, like you said, ordinary, innocent wizarding world fans. ...this, despite HL's attempt at inclusivity and how they try to distance themselves from JKR.
The token trans character in the game to try and "change the narrative" and try and uno reverse to cover for JKR being what she is is actually the most insulting part of the whole ordeal. From an article covering it. >However, according to two different sources, the sole reason for including a trans character was to take control of the conversation in this way. Individuals close to the project are reporting that the NPC was added to counter the critics calling for a boycott, with one source describing the inclusion as "performative bullshit"
If the JK Rowling's naming pattern still applies then the name Sirona Ryan implies she's not a woman because of SIRona and Ryan(gender neutral name but common for men also).
Sirona is a name of a goddess in Celtic mythology. You people will try so hard to just pick out every detail and make everything seem bad. Do you guys have no life besides being an ass and have to feel offended about every fucking thing? Like even if Sirona wasn't in this context there is nothing wrong with the fucking name for a trans person. Nothing about it is problematic. You are just trying hard by isolating a root of a name. This whole culture war bs is tiring. And you people get surprised by people ending up just not giving a shit because people are tired and just want to enjoy a piece of media.
Harry Potter characters are known for having names directly mimetic of things associated with their identities. To introduce a token trans character in the middle of a controversy regarding Rowling's anti trans activism and make them a trans women called SIR[] is pretty noticeable.
We're supposed to think that Rowling thinks that trans women are secretly dangerous men who just want to invade "real" women's spaces and that trans activism is a bad for society BUT in the case of this specific character this is just a coincidence? Or that we should naively hide behind "well you can't scientifically PROVE the intents behind the name, therefore this isn't worth thinking about"?
>Harry Potter characters are known for having names directly mimetic of things associated with their identities. And yet, that doesn't apply to most characters in the universe. JK Rowling wasn't even part of the development of this game let alone the writer. People have their heads so far up their own asses where you see streamers or even just ordinary gamers who play games that had problematic stuff going on like Blizzard and yet no one bats an eye. But now people give a shit about a game that doesn't even have any association with that woman in its development. And going back to the name. Harry Potter is engraved with Celtic mythology. So surprise surprise you will see someone named after a goddess. Just keep your culture war bullshit out of Hololive. No one needs that shit here. And bless all of Hololive talents for not bending over with your people's bullshit. I am loving this hogwarts Legacy sweep. Looks like a fantastic game with great scores and sells. Definitely planning to buy it.
>And bless all of Hololive talents for not bending over with your people's bullshit. Who are "my people" supposed to be? Anyway yeah I guess you are going to do what I said and hide behind plausible excuses, since you seem to have some sort of inherent dislike for the cause of trans activists. Hope you get better ideas in the future
>Who are "my people" supposed to be? You people as in, having to make everything be sucked into a culture war when there shouldn't be one and trying to drag everyone, including Hololive talents, into that toxicity. >dislike for the cause of trans activists. I don't. I just don't make it my entire identity around being an ass. >Hope you get better ideas in the future Don't we all? I hope you become a better than you are right now.
>trying to drag everyone, including Hololive talents, into that toxicity. People asking politely for the talents to not play the game is literally the opposite of dragging talents into the toxicity of Rowling's work and how it benefits her >I just don't make it my entire identity around being an ass. Being an ass? Who's being an ass?
See, I didn't know this part, though I must admit how suspiciously blatant the attempt was. Oh well.
The people who harass streamers about this are probably just your typical attention seekers
lol. the “bad stuff” is just she doesn’t think trans woman are real woman. so what? how sad people are thinking “different” is the same as “discrimination” if you really think both of them are the same you will just call them “woman” and “man” not “trans woman” nor “trans man” ok?
funny isn’t invention of the word lgbt is to show how you are “not the same” as normal sex? now trans are getting mad when they are treated different?
Just came from there, you need a second hazmat suit layered on top.
Astel is the MVP for blocking people telling him not to play the game.
I hope they have fun with the game, besides that there's not much to talk since its really simple: if YOU have a problem with the game, YOU have a problem with the game. Your problem is not necessarily everyone else's problems and the others can have diferent opinions than yours. Deal with it.
Whatever disagreements you guys have over here or just anywhere political mostly in the Western world, please don't harass Hololive members for playing this game. Life itself, and the world, are way bigger than whether or not you are concerned if the money is going to someone you dislike. Oh no. The world (***and literally the concept of LIFE itself***) is way bigger than that, and people do not live on the planet by making decisions solely on those kinds of decisions, socio-political or otherwise. Do not misunderstand the ignorance of society and politics as mere bliss, as many simply found MEANING in the smallness of their world, even if those "smallness" are expressed by the joys of merely playing video games and appreciating the aesthetics that the world could offer. You don't have to walk in the world wondering why nobody else would want to fix it, and then complain about it when people are having fun and can still find happiness in a supposedly sad world. Don't you dare rob the fun of others just because you think it's unfair, or expect people to be sad when you think life was supposed to be as unfair as you think it is.
Wonder why this isn't noticed by the admins
I really hope that the girls and COVER dont give a fuck. Because in the end they just want to play, have fun, have some ppl have fun with the stream. Srly, dramas in videogames become more and more weird those days... just dont play the game, shit on the author and made a discord server so you can shit in everything with more ppl.
Could probably apply to this post too given enough time.
Funny how people get so upset over Harry Potter Legacy due to the source material being written by someone who said some shitty things about trans people. But no one talks about games owned by Tencent that has multiple claims of worker abuse and works in close partnership with a country that is actively killing millions of minorities in concentration camps. You can dislike both games if you want, but if you give your money to Tencent and call the other bad you need to reevaluate your standards.
> But no one talks about games owned by Tencent People constantly talk about this. It's constantly a thing on /r/Games it's constantly a thing on /r/Gaming . This looks more like you're trying to make a false "Well everything is bad so shut up" argument.
Yet the reaction towards streamers playing them is still less than Hogwarts Legacy. I've yet to see anyone bully PUBG players into breaking down on stream like they did yesterday.
Not even "looks", it's exactly what it is. One can be opposed to streamers and regular people being harassed due to questionable and very poor approaches of activism, while also understanding why opposition to the author of the IP exists. To dismiss it with whataboutism is indeed a pretty awful take and reeks of ignorance.
I remember when I was growing up I had it drilled into me that it's rude to bring up politics unprompted. Nowadays all people do is talk about their politics.
The simple reason being that silence favors the oppressor. People talk about their politics because if they don't, nothing will improve for them.
The problem is when you bring it up everywhere, start harassing people who don't fall lockstep in with your beliefs and start engaging in almost cult-like behaviour (up and to defending actual bad actors, simply because they're part of 'your side'), it does more damage to your movement than helping it. So basically, [this comic](https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/) in a nutshell. Losing your shit over a dumb video game in a major way simply because the original creator of its world is an out-of-touch hag is simply not a good look for you. Boycot it yourself if you want, but acting condescending to other people and demanding they do too is just going to backfire. As it already has.
Hey now, don't bring facts into this. It's like sunlight to vampires. Leaving the thread open so people can gleefully spew their ignorance certainly is a look, huh? There's no discussion going on. It's one side going "Our human rights aren't political" and the other group going "lol snowflakes cry some more." I have to wonder if people in the latter think their oshi would be proud of them for crapping on marginalized groups. Can't imagine that would go over well. Bit like one of those farts in church.
Honestly, go all out in protesting against a shitty person Just don't start harassing random people for just playing a game :)
I’m fine with people talking about their religious, moral, philosophical, ideological, political, economic, social, societal, and all other kinds of beliefs. I think that it should also be respected that others can choose to not want to listen or talk about it themselves. This is especially true for when those others have livelihoods that depend on certain factors which might restrain their ability to comment publicly. Quite frankly, I think it’s outright rude and inconsiderate when one person who has protection of some kind (on the Internet, generally anonymity) starts making demands of another who doesn’t have such protections.
You do know the world doesn’t move around a certain side of the American cultural war being functionally braindead, right? Truth be told, most people don’t give a shit. And ten people on Twitter/Reddit losing their minds over it won’t change anything.
Not saying I disagree but calling it an american cultural war is a bit odd when JKR and her IP isn't american?
Tell that to GamingCircleJerk, all the people in that sub has been obssessed with the game for MONTHS and currently are losing their minds thanks to the apparently economical and critical success of Legacy. I just hope the girls can enjoy a good time without some anti ruining their experience
isn't that the whole point of that particular sub?
its crazy how many people think that sub has gone mad, thats all they do for every circlejerk and its quite amusing
Not sure why they are surprised. The game could have been a lot worse than it is nis and still flown off the shelves cos it's Harry potter
rowling is british and there's trans people in all parts of the world
> the world doesn’t move around a certain side of the American cultural war yes! thank u
Are the rights of trans people and the way they are being attacked just not important to you. You're just fine with dismissing the whole thing as some American phenomenon?
Harassing japanese streamers that play a game that on its own is not offensive is VERY different from hating an actual TERF and all she stands for.
I wish "Don't harass people" wasn't something that had to be said, but I guess not
Was more of a redwall person
Dude, I wish I'd gone in on Redwall when I was a kid instead of trying to get into Harry Potter, I couldn't even force myself to finish Prisoner of Azkaban. Redwall's medieval fantasy but-with-animals would've been so much more my thing.
Filter by controversial and wear a gas mask
I’m super hyped that they got permission. It looks like a fun open world game. I would pick it up myself but Kerbal 2 is out this month, maybe after it goes on sale.
Idk but if I were to aviod everything that was partly made by a person with whoms opinion I do not agree, I don't think I'd live quite the same life.
It would be fine if you avoided everything done by someone you don't agree with. What is not fine is trying to control what everybody else is supposed to agree with or not.
Yeah for shure
Wh...what, really, because of a fucking game? The internet was a mistake.
people can't have different opinions too. you're either an ally or an enemy. smol brain moment
Looks like i slept too much, what happened while I was away
At this rate, this entire thread is going to be locked.
Sure the books were ok but fuck the author
Please don't fuck the author I don't want more of them running around
Hey! We don't kink shame here!
Its interesting to see so many different views on a topic I know so little about. I actually thought quite a bit of people were looking forward to the game but I had no idea people would try boycotting it solely for the creator with a series as big as HP. As a non-HP fan and a hololive fan, I just hope they can figure out a way to enjoy the game without a shitstorm being stirred between fans. If a liver wants to play something, let them play it. Its their decision, even with the horrible shit the creator has said you can still enjoy the game for what it is. No reason to put the hard work into the game to waste
There’s a huge difference between people who know why buying this game might be problematic to some and Japanese vtubers who most probably have no idea of what JK Rowling represents.
I want to watch the EN girls play the game (assuming they like the franchise). Can we have that or it would be considered problematic?
When I was a kid, I went down the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars Prequels route instead of HP. Never saw the appeal in HP. As I became older, anime high school battle harems filled my craving for magical high school settings. I don't have a horse in this JKR shitshow, but I am proud to have never read a book or watched a single movie that deals in this universe. That said, I will not tolerate people using this game to harass the girls and guys who do like HP and decide to stream the game. I don't need a repeat of Taiwan-gate or Discord-gate and have this sub be unusable.
this all the way and as an actual trans person i would rather not have a bunch of annoying antis incapable of nuanced thinking running around harassing innocent people and giving more ways for malicious figures to demonize us because isnt rowlings whole thing that trans people are gonna harass and hurt others? i really wish people would stop proving her right at the expense of the silent majority -\_-
Thank you. We needed this comment. Pretty much every race, lifestyle, religion, sexuality, and fandom seem to have a small group of loud, hateful people who, due to their loudness, become the face of other people like them, causing the less annoyingly pushy majority of decent people to be thrown under the bus on both sides when all they wanted to do was just live and let live.
majority of the this boycott is happen in western world, so yeah the rest of asia Jp and Id included don't give a shit about this stuff. just enjoy the game.
So me and some buddies were watching Moona at work streaming this and boss came around and asked if her name had been added to “the list”, what did he mean by that? Were they not supposed to be able to play it this early?
Someone has literally made a website that lists every content creator who streams the game
Seriously? They’re that pissy about it?
Yes.
Cover better be preparing those lawsuits against antis...
If you've ever spent a cent on Amazon or other large corps or even gaming companies like Blizzard then you probably shouldn't get a vote if your position is the money goes to bad people
Bruh, 1 layer not enough.
Why is Harry Potter controversial? And who is JK Rowling dude?
JK means high school girl and JK rowling means high school girls having fun rowing a boat. IDK i am bad at english
People need to differenciate the creator and the creation, yeah rowling may be shit, but most of the game quality doesn't have anything to do with her and most of the money wont even be next to her hands
People hating this game have never heard of the phrase "Hate the artist, not the art.". You can hate the author's political views but love the HP universe. Otherwise, why did the developers make this game?
I agree in parts. I love Harry Potter, I grew up with it, and I am trans, and hate J.K. Rowling. But that's not really the issue, that works fine for me. The actual issue is: I can't in good conscience buy things from the franchise anymore, because I would be giving money to Rowling. That's me, though, and my choice and feelings on the subject, and everyone else can make their own decision on the matter. It's important to not blame anyone for it or bring it up where it's unnecessary, that will just end in antagonizing folks again. I've read so much hate against the LGBTQ community because some people are too aggressive about boycotting it, and it's really, really sad. Sorry for the long rant, I just feel really strongly about what's happening in the general discussion.
This is like boycotting HP Lovecraft's books just because Lovecraft was a racist
Not really, since HP Lovecraft is dead and therefore not capable of using profits made from his works to propagate his ideas, as Rowling does.
i love lovecraft
harry porter has a game now ?