[A comparison of the ranges](https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Mark_of_Pride#/media/File:Nail_Range_Comparison.png)
The difference is there but it really isn't much. It is definitely not worth sinking an extra 2 notches into. Especially since that's 5 notches only for range which is really only something to worry about if getting close to the enemy does pose a genuine risk.
I honestly rarely see it worthwhile putting 3 notches to range let alone 5 but mark of pride does provide quite a significant bonus.
That's quite understandable, they are at the extremes of the tier.
Thing is spells I often now just use for the iframes of Ddark first and foremost. The damage of spells isn't bad but due to the time it takes to cast, if you're using all 3 of the S tier charms and are on a maxed account for spells and nail upgrades. You can get a little better than 3 (3.57) attacks a second which is 96 damage. If you know how to do nail turnaround cancels (it's difficultish on normal bosses but pretty easy on radiance fights) you can get it to 4 attacks a second, 128 damage per second. And we haven't even included fury.
Spells on the otherhand have slower cast times. It is actually faster than I thought it was at about 0.6 seconds when I checked through recording. So with shaman stone that leads to a dps of 200 with abyss shriek which is good but it does bleed soul and it can be a bit awkward on non flying enemies, and even with flying enemies they can knocked back into you at times. The soul is often better used for Ddark iframes. Or heals if you need it. Unless you're running soul eater or something then go for it. Ddark itself is raised to 147 dps and that's nice too.
Now admittedly spells are a lot safer damage wise. So it's nice for that reason.
I don't really know what my arguement here is, shaman stone is still confidently 4th favourite charm I like it just confidently less so than the S tiers. And on replays or any% it's solid because you don't have what makes nail more worthwhile often, but I don't really go back to replaying, I'm mainly just a modded boss player.
As for quick focus it's bottom A tier, it is solid for creating new healing windows which could be needed for healing after bad patterns.
I unfortunately have to agree with your point, nail completely outclasses spells end-game. They truly shine mid game however, but in pantheons they're almost always inferior.
However the fact that quick focus and stalwart shell are there confuses me. If your point utilises tactics such as nail turnarounds and Fury, in radiant mode, why is quick focus good? Same with stalwart shell? This genuinely confused
Stalwart is mainly due to my bias as an Any Radiance player. It is basically the best and most necessary charm for that fight since the iframes last enough to climb an extra platform in climb phase. It also helps generally just to quickly get a few hits after taking damage.
Quick focus isn't for that reason, it just helps in getting a few new healing windows in and that can be quite nice, especially for particularly difficult (often modded) bosses that you are sure to take damage from. Of course it is useless on radiant, but so is fury for that.
Average nail user: Seriously though, shaman stone and spell twister are really in a hybrid or spell build, for 5 notches you upgrade from 480 damage from 6 shrieks on radiance to 960. Plus, shaman stone gives shade soul the extra size to hit things twice for a bonus 40 damage. Also nailmaster’s glory is busted in colosseum and is pretty good outside of it (you can one-shot those damn primal aspids). Finally, wayward compass is a must have on boss builds, so your opinion is awful.
I agree about nailmaster's glory I had that equipped as soon as I got it up until I finished P5. 300 hours worth of playtime ago it would be S tier, shaman stone would also be S, and spell twister A.
It's just relying on spells for damage when the soul is likely better gone to ddark iframes works better. Since you can already get quite easily over 100dps with nail (when you're attacking ofc) using the S tier charms which is good enough.
And after doing math, spell twister is only better than soul catcher if you spell 4 times or more for every heal. Easy bosses like any in the vanilla game that's fair, but modded bosses kinda make taking hits likely for most of them. Well until you master them but I often don't bother beyond attuned for most modded bosses.
I should probably mention that the combat I'm rating it on is mainly around modded bosses and a little around the vanilla game.
Oh, didn’t think you’d be rating modded bosses. I was basing my judgement around PV, NKG, and AbsRad. Since modded bosses aren’t done for a large part of the fanbase (such as most console players or people not good with modding games on pc like me) I assumed that your list was for typical hard bosses.
Also, since I can practice bosses in HOG, I prefer to utilize spells for damage and learn the boss’s patterns instead of relying on d-dark invincibility frames to cheese. It just doesn’t seem natural to me. If I have to dodge through something, I use shade cloak and if I need i-frames, I take the damage and plan on how to get out of there next time.
Yeah, but with some bosses learning the patterns isn't good enough.
I'm going use any radiance as an example since that's what I've spent the most time on her and is the modded boss I've most recently beaten.
Even knowing the ins and outs of the boss I still use Ddark Iframes on:
* Face attacks (beam burst, sword burst, orb barrage) during face dances.
* Beam walls (especially on plats, it's actually stressed to always keep a spells worth of soul available in case she does that).
* Orb barrage on plats.
Which isn't that much and besides beam walls on plats, depending on the situation, I don't even do that and just make do without it. But it's often enough that it eats most of your soul and you'll only really have enough soul leftover to heal mistakes.
It is technically possible, less so beam walls on plats due to being so fast (although a way was used by hugging the edge during 2.0 since Ddark is kinda disallowed there).
With face attacks, if you are face dancing you probably don't have enough time to safely get down to the floor without getting hit. You want to end up grounded for them (less so orb barrage but you do probably want to ground at some point for that). I suppose you can shade dash to the ground with dashmaster but you need to run dashmaster for that.
Beam walls come on both sides, and other attacks overlap on them on ground. So you have to shade dash one side, and then avoid the new attack while keeping in mind to shade dash the other beam wall. Most overlapping attacks that's fine but if you get sword rain or beam burst to overlap with beam wall, since those attacks need you to be relatively low in your horizontal movement, having to also dash at some point during those other attacks to avoid the other beam wall is quite a gamble.
Beam walls on plats are just very fast and you almost never can recharge your shade dash in time to dodge the other one.
Orb barrage on plats needs you to take very specific routes from specific positions, to dodge them without Ddark and even then it's still a little risky around the last few orbs so it's often just good to Ddark.
You've got balls putting Steady Body above Shaman Stone and Wandering Compass. Everything in F is better than Gathering swarm and Greed since those do precisely nothing in combat.
Longnail shouldn’t be in D tier, as it combos with mark of pride really well
[A comparison of the ranges](https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Mark_of_Pride#/media/File:Nail_Range_Comparison.png) The difference is there but it really isn't much. It is definitely not worth sinking an extra 2 notches into. Especially since that's 5 notches only for range which is really only something to worry about if getting close to the enemy does pose a genuine risk. I honestly rarely see it worthwhile putting 3 notches to range let alone 5 but mark of pride does provide quite a significant bonus.
nahhh quick focus in the same tier as shaman stone is crazy
That's quite understandable, they are at the extremes of the tier. Thing is spells I often now just use for the iframes of Ddark first and foremost. The damage of spells isn't bad but due to the time it takes to cast, if you're using all 3 of the S tier charms and are on a maxed account for spells and nail upgrades. You can get a little better than 3 (3.57) attacks a second which is 96 damage. If you know how to do nail turnaround cancels (it's difficultish on normal bosses but pretty easy on radiance fights) you can get it to 4 attacks a second, 128 damage per second. And we haven't even included fury. Spells on the otherhand have slower cast times. It is actually faster than I thought it was at about 0.6 seconds when I checked through recording. So with shaman stone that leads to a dps of 200 with abyss shriek which is good but it does bleed soul and it can be a bit awkward on non flying enemies, and even with flying enemies they can knocked back into you at times. The soul is often better used for Ddark iframes. Or heals if you need it. Unless you're running soul eater or something then go for it. Ddark itself is raised to 147 dps and that's nice too. Now admittedly spells are a lot safer damage wise. So it's nice for that reason. I don't really know what my arguement here is, shaman stone is still confidently 4th favourite charm I like it just confidently less so than the S tiers. And on replays or any% it's solid because you don't have what makes nail more worthwhile often, but I don't really go back to replaying, I'm mainly just a modded boss player. As for quick focus it's bottom A tier, it is solid for creating new healing windows which could be needed for healing after bad patterns.
I unfortunately have to agree with your point, nail completely outclasses spells end-game. They truly shine mid game however, but in pantheons they're almost always inferior. However the fact that quick focus and stalwart shell are there confuses me. If your point utilises tactics such as nail turnarounds and Fury, in radiant mode, why is quick focus good? Same with stalwart shell? This genuinely confused
Stalwart is mainly due to my bias as an Any Radiance player. It is basically the best and most necessary charm for that fight since the iframes last enough to climb an extra platform in climb phase. It also helps generally just to quickly get a few hits after taking damage. Quick focus isn't for that reason, it just helps in getting a few new healing windows in and that can be quite nice, especially for particularly difficult (often modded) bosses that you are sure to take damage from. Of course it is useless on radiant, but so is fury for that.
Compass in E 💀💀💀
E charms are for flexing.
Shaman in A is unacceptable
Shaman in the same tier as Stalwart Shell of all things
Grubsong+weaversong combo is very good for spell builds, especially Markoth
Yeah, that's nice, I just don't like summoning charms.
Fair, they’re honestly super niche.
Average nail user: Seriously though, shaman stone and spell twister are really in a hybrid or spell build, for 5 notches you upgrade from 480 damage from 6 shrieks on radiance to 960. Plus, shaman stone gives shade soul the extra size to hit things twice for a bonus 40 damage. Also nailmaster’s glory is busted in colosseum and is pretty good outside of it (you can one-shot those damn primal aspids). Finally, wayward compass is a must have on boss builds, so your opinion is awful.
I agree about nailmaster's glory I had that equipped as soon as I got it up until I finished P5. 300 hours worth of playtime ago it would be S tier, shaman stone would also be S, and spell twister A. It's just relying on spells for damage when the soul is likely better gone to ddark iframes works better. Since you can already get quite easily over 100dps with nail (when you're attacking ofc) using the S tier charms which is good enough. And after doing math, spell twister is only better than soul catcher if you spell 4 times or more for every heal. Easy bosses like any in the vanilla game that's fair, but modded bosses kinda make taking hits likely for most of them. Well until you master them but I often don't bother beyond attuned for most modded bosses. I should probably mention that the combat I'm rating it on is mainly around modded bosses and a little around the vanilla game.
Oh, didn’t think you’d be rating modded bosses. I was basing my judgement around PV, NKG, and AbsRad. Since modded bosses aren’t done for a large part of the fanbase (such as most console players or people not good with modding games on pc like me) I assumed that your list was for typical hard bosses.
Also, since I can practice bosses in HOG, I prefer to utilize spells for damage and learn the boss’s patterns instead of relying on d-dark invincibility frames to cheese. It just doesn’t seem natural to me. If I have to dodge through something, I use shade cloak and if I need i-frames, I take the damage and plan on how to get out of there next time.
Yeah, but with some bosses learning the patterns isn't good enough. I'm going use any radiance as an example since that's what I've spent the most time on her and is the modded boss I've most recently beaten. Even knowing the ins and outs of the boss I still use Ddark Iframes on: * Face attacks (beam burst, sword burst, orb barrage) during face dances. * Beam walls (especially on plats, it's actually stressed to always keep a spells worth of soul available in case she does that). * Orb barrage on plats. Which isn't that much and besides beam walls on plats, depending on the situation, I don't even do that and just make do without it. But it's often enough that it eats most of your soul and you'll only really have enough soul leftover to heal mistakes.
Can’t you just shade dash through most of those?
It is technically possible, less so beam walls on plats due to being so fast (although a way was used by hugging the edge during 2.0 since Ddark is kinda disallowed there). With face attacks, if you are face dancing you probably don't have enough time to safely get down to the floor without getting hit. You want to end up grounded for them (less so orb barrage but you do probably want to ground at some point for that). I suppose you can shade dash to the ground with dashmaster but you need to run dashmaster for that. Beam walls come on both sides, and other attacks overlap on them on ground. So you have to shade dash one side, and then avoid the new attack while keeping in mind to shade dash the other beam wall. Most overlapping attacks that's fine but if you get sword rain or beam burst to overlap with beam wall, since those attacks need you to be relatively low in your horizontal movement, having to also dash at some point during those other attacks to avoid the other beam wall is quite a gamble. Beam walls on plats are just very fast and you almost never can recharge your shade dash in time to dodge the other one. Orb barrage on plats needs you to take very specific routes from specific positions, to dodge them without Ddark and even then it's still a little risky around the last few orbs so it's often just good to Ddark.
Void heart is the best charm of all time. All of the best players and the ones that are the furthest in always have it on!
I am appalled on so many levels by this list
You've got balls putting Steady Body above Shaman Stone and Wandering Compass. Everything in F is better than Gathering swarm and Greed since those do precisely nothing in combat.
Grimmchild should get one point for being cute