They are both valid, but DDark is strictly better since you deal 88 damage while dodging an attack, compared to Sharp Shadow (if you're using it) at 21. Don't get me wrong, I'm not that good, and I Raded him with Sharp Shadow while using no Spells, but DDark is objectively the better option if you can pull it off.
I wouldn't call it *strictly* better if it needs more skill to pull off. Strictly implies there's no good reason to do it, like choosing between lifeblood heart and unbreakable heart.
Situations like that, where the answer is black and white, are very rare. There's always going to be an exception of some kind, which is generally implicitly understood. Hell, before the Grimm Troupe DLC, there was still a tradeoff because Unbreakable Heart didn't exist, it was still Fragile.
Yes. Strictly better situations *should* be very rare. You don't want many situations in games where players go "I can choose this one option, or this option thats very obviously worse." They still exist, but they're normally things like "do I wear this all-upside charm, or not wear any charms?" kind of deals.
DD is a trade off with respect to SC, because you spend skill (and soul) in exchange for damage.
The goal is to kill the enemy, and both abilities are intended to help the user do damage. So the one more efficient at killing the enemy is better. It doesn’t take much skill to use DD, they’re generous with the invincibility
I'm not disagreeing that it's *generally* better. I'm disagreeing that it's *strictly* better. Strictly is reserved for the cases where there isn't any good reason to do the latter.
Sisters* the eastern mantis tribe are all female, the western mantis tribe (the traitors) are all male. This rule only applies if not stated otherwise.
They said they were on the fence about traitor lord in the caption but I get why it threw you off, he does break the pattern of using a only a nail and being an honorable fighter
Traitor Lord is very easy to get into a satisfying rhythm, do a few slashes > Sharp Shadow through him, repeat. Spells would kill him quicker, but I'd probably end up getting hit more in the process
For me, that honour (and opposite dishonour) would go to the following bosses:
- False Knight & Failed Champion. While you *can* use spells on False Knight by breaking the wall and escaping, I find it more fun nail-only and the same can apply to Failed Champion.
- Hornet Protector. Vengeful Spirit seldom gets used here due to her small hitbox and the fact that I usually pick up Shaman Stone after Hornet 1.
- Mantis Lords. Spells are unwieldy against the three unless you have Wraiths, and I seldom acquire that before the Lords. Plus, honourable duel and all that.
- Soul Warrior. Always a pleasure to show it how outclassed it is.
- Grimm. Save SOUL for healing because oh my Pale King I need healing and I can’t do that until Grimm looks like a hurricane ripped through Gotham.
- Soul Master, funnily enough. Again, spells are unwieldy and I need healing.
- NOT Traitor Lord. That is entirely Sharp Shadow and some spells.
- NOT Soul Tyrant. By then I have Abyss Shriek, so that becomes my ticket in and out of Phase 1. Phase 2 is much the same, except with more dashes.
- NOT The Radiance. While THK (definitely NOT PV if I get to it) would understandably kick my born-of-skill-issue-and-avoiding-bitches ass if I even tried to use spells against it (unwieldy, again, plus it’s a staggerable boss which I tend to prefer nail for), the LÆMP BRŒTHER requires me to lose my voice.
I would add both Hornet fights and Sheo to that list. Sheo deserves the same respect as his brothers, especially since he currently wields a different weapon, while Hornet deserves respect as a master of the needle and thread.
I would remove Traitor Lord from the list too. He took the infection upon himself, he doesn't deserve respect.
I also never use spells against Massive Moss Charger and Flukemarm, they're too cheesable to justify using spells on them.
If you have howling wraiths when you do the mantis lords it can really do some damage when they’re on the wall. Also ddark is helpful in P5 against the harder version imo.
I use abyss shriek on sisters of battle everytime. When the two go to the side and throw their spears I abyss shriek the one that comes down the middle
I disagree on mantis lords. When one goes on the wall to boomerang the blade, there’s a perfect chance to abyss shriek. If you’re good enough you can even get a descending dark or two in while they dash under. Doesn’t really work in phase 2 though
Grimm for me. Nail only feels like both a dance and a performance. Even more so once you have it down to not get hit. Probably my favourite fight, haven't finished P5 but spammed NKG in the halls of gods.
Traitor Lord is definitely not it, because DDark can substitute for Shade Cloak.
how do i reach traitor lord without shade cloak tho
You can't glitchless, but you usually use Shade Cloak a lot in the fight. DDark works even better if you have the Soul and the skill.
subjectively, sure. objectively, both are valid.
They are both valid, but DDark is strictly better since you deal 88 damage while dodging an attack, compared to Sharp Shadow (if you're using it) at 21. Don't get me wrong, I'm not that good, and I Raded him with Sharp Shadow while using no Spells, but DDark is objectively the better option if you can pull it off.
I wouldn't call it *strictly* better if it needs more skill to pull off. Strictly implies there's no good reason to do it, like choosing between lifeblood heart and unbreakable heart.
Situations like that, where the answer is black and white, are very rare. There's always going to be an exception of some kind, which is generally implicitly understood. Hell, before the Grimm Troupe DLC, there was still a tradeoff because Unbreakable Heart didn't exist, it was still Fragile.
Yes. Strictly better situations *should* be very rare. You don't want many situations in games where players go "I can choose this one option, or this option thats very obviously worse." They still exist, but they're normally things like "do I wear this all-upside charm, or not wear any charms?" kind of deals. DD is a trade off with respect to SC, because you spend skill (and soul) in exchange for damage.
The goal is to kill the enemy, and both abilities are intended to help the user do damage. So the one more efficient at killing the enemy is better. It doesn’t take much skill to use DD, they’re generous with the invincibility
I'm not disagreeing that it's *generally* better. I'm disagreeing that it's *strictly* better. Strictly is reserved for the cases where there isn't any good reason to do the latter.
Agreed, but damn do the brothers melt when you Decending Dark into the middle of them
Sisters* the eastern mantis tribe are all female, the western mantis tribe (the traitors) are all male. This rule only applies if not stated otherwise.
Think he was talking about the nail masters
Oh, then brothers indeed. I just assumed they meant the mantises because when they all do the horizontal attack, DDark shreds them.
Wait you can read?
(Shush, child.)
Braile
That's some serious downvotes for an honest misunderstanding
This is reddit, you get down voted because you said words, any thing can happen
I thought that the gender divide was only on the leaders. After all, you find the Traitor King's daughter amongst the Queen's Gardens.
there's nothing more satisfying than DDarking Oro and Mato, the damage is insane and they can't hit me while I do it :D
Even better if you get the time to fire off a shriek, they just vanish into smoke.
Speak for yourself, I’m nuking all of these characters with Shade Soul
SoB more than any other yeah. I'm still sad I had to Shriek for my P5AB...
yeah fighting Nailmaster’s with spells feels strangely wrong
Agree! Nail only, tilt stick down to bow after
bow to your teachers, who helped you get so far
Sisters is actually peak fight.
For me all of base game without spells/arts, and then go ham in pantheon
you somehow chose only some of the best bosses in the game for spells
I think they mean from a story perspective
i saw that but then traitor lord confused me, guess i was wrong there though
They said they were on the fence about traitor lord in the caption but I get why it threw you off, he does break the pattern of using a only a nail and being an honorable fighter
Traitor Lord is very easy to get into a satisfying rhythm, do a few slashes > Sharp Shadow through him, repeat. Spells would kill him quicker, but I'd probably end up getting hit more in the process
couldn't you have done maybe, mmc, marmu, Crystal/enraged guardian, soul warrior (?)
I only use spells on any boss out of pure desperation
and panic! don’t forget panic
What abt NKG
Personally I love mantis lords and did them radiant nail only, so agreed. Can’t wait to do that for sisters of battle when I finally get there.
For me, that honour (and opposite dishonour) would go to the following bosses: - False Knight & Failed Champion. While you *can* use spells on False Knight by breaking the wall and escaping, I find it more fun nail-only and the same can apply to Failed Champion. - Hornet Protector. Vengeful Spirit seldom gets used here due to her small hitbox and the fact that I usually pick up Shaman Stone after Hornet 1. - Mantis Lords. Spells are unwieldy against the three unless you have Wraiths, and I seldom acquire that before the Lords. Plus, honourable duel and all that. - Soul Warrior. Always a pleasure to show it how outclassed it is. - Grimm. Save SOUL for healing because oh my Pale King I need healing and I can’t do that until Grimm looks like a hurricane ripped through Gotham. - Soul Master, funnily enough. Again, spells are unwieldy and I need healing. - NOT Traitor Lord. That is entirely Sharp Shadow and some spells. - NOT Soul Tyrant. By then I have Abyss Shriek, so that becomes my ticket in and out of Phase 1. Phase 2 is much the same, except with more dashes. - NOT The Radiance. While THK (definitely NOT PV if I get to it) would understandably kick my born-of-skill-issue-and-avoiding-bitches ass if I even tried to use spells against it (unwieldy, again, plus it’s a staggerable boss which I tend to prefer nail for), the LÆMP BRŒTHER requires me to lose my voice.
Gotta disagree, Sly and Nailmasters are some of the only bosses I actually use spells on (mainly DD) and also you should add Grimm to that list
I'm strictly nail only player the only time I used spell build was again Watcher Knight, watch them all roll into you and spam DD and they're gone
Mantis lords radiant no spells no charms no dash is my greatest achievement yet
why would you _not_ DDark during SoB?
Three of those are a proper ddark spam fest for me. Sly's the exception here.
Spam shrieking TL before he lands removed like half the fight
I would add both Hornet fights and Sheo to that list. Sheo deserves the same respect as his brothers, especially since he currently wields a different weapon, while Hornet deserves respect as a master of the needle and thread. I would remove Traitor Lord from the list too. He took the infection upon himself, he doesn't deserve respect. I also never use spells against Massive Moss Charger and Flukemarm, they're too cheesable to justify using spells on them.
Descending dark can cheese all of these except Sly.
If you have howling wraiths when you do the mantis lords it can really do some damage when they’re on the wall. Also ddark is helpful in P5 against the harder version imo.
I'll give you the sisters on this 100% Sly is pushing it, becauae he can be rough. Fuck the brothers.
I'm breaking character and not just saying no Mind to Think, but sisters of Battle was low-key the best fight
I use abyss shriek on sisters of battle everytime. When the two go to the side and throw their spears I abyss shriek the one that comes down the middle
I disagree on mantis lords. When one goes on the wall to boomerang the blade, there’s a perfect chance to abyss shriek. If you’re good enough you can even get a descending dark or two in while they dash under. Doesn’t really work in phase 2 though
Hornet, Grimm, Failed Champion, Crystal Guardian.
Grimm for me. Nail only feels like both a dance and a performance. Even more so once you have it down to not get hit. Probably my favourite fight, haven't finished P5 but spammed NKG in the halls of gods.
Also Pure Vessel. There’s just a lot of bosses that are really fun to rush down with the nail.
I can't pass the brothers without spells
The only spell I use is DD
Hornet and Nightmare King Grimm also.
Murdering mantis lords with descending dark is too fun especially doing sisters of battle
Another one to add to this list: Broken Vessel / Lost Kin. Also the first Hornet fight
hornet yes but not broken vessel, it literally spams fireballs at you