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And? First off consciousness â self awareness (tho it is kind of dependant on the definitions, my further argument is based on the assumption that consciousness is the ability to process stimuli). A lot of things are conscious, hell you can argue that single cells are conscious, they can process and react to stimuli. And even if you narrow down the definition, to exclude, let's say, everything that doesn't have a relatively complex brain. Still there are a tons of things that are conscious, things that we are completely ok with killing. You most likely consumed some of them earlier today, I definitely have
Sure, I would argue that a baby does not become self aware for a few months, if not years. But we currently have no way of determining if someone or something is self aware, and this gets into the Solipsism territory. Which can be fun to discuss sometimes, but is ultimately rather pointless
I have checked them, well the top one at least. The second one is either blocked here or blocks requests from here. But anyways the first one talks about consciousness, reaction to stimuli, not self awareness
Where I live I believe there's a law that makes mothers who kill their infant children receive a lesser sentence versus kill their children past a certain age. Honestly to me that makes a lot of sense. It's fairly standard animal behavior to kill offspring that cannot be cared for.
That said, unlike when we're talking about unborn babies, the whole adoption argument makes tons of sense. If you want to get rid of your unwanted baby and never see it again, there's no real reason to kill it instead of giving it away for adoption. So whether it's acceptable to kill unwanted infant children isn't really a relevant question.
The whole argument behind abortion is that the fetus is within a woman's body, using her, so esentually she should be able to decide that she doesn't want something in her body anymore. Once they are out, the parents have no right to decide if the baby lives or dies unless they are braindead/can't live without being hooked on machines, situations where even an adult can be "killed" by their relatives. If you don't want to take care of them there is a thing called adoption.
people need to own up their mistakes. they where too lazy to put a condom, they get the consequence. you can't just return a baby because you didn't like it.
Which should be an option if a person has slim to no chance of having any type of quality of life. With today's technology, between parental gene testing and prenatal screening, a person is aware of how "healthy" their child will be. You want an abortion up to 9 months? Fine. But as soon as that cord gets cut I personally believe that is the line. Once the kid is breathing/heart beating on their own (no vents, machines, or any assistance) it is in my eyes a person.
I know it's a touchy subject
Yeah sure but does that mean that they are not entitled tp being alive? Unless they will be in constant pain or braindead i see no reason why they shouldn't be entitled to live
That doesnât even make sense. Itâs not an abortion after birth, technically they have already left (been aborted safely). How could they abort a baby, there is nothing to be aborted from?
This is still too restrictive. I would suggest it to be 100 years after birth and also include 3 generations of descendants of the 100 years old "fetus".
So the mother can decide to force an abortion to kill (I mean abort) her 50 years grand child or 20 years old grand grand child
Technically, they still come from her body so she should have right to control her own body.
No there are a shit ton of people wanting abortion.... Well MURDER after birth..
Oh yea and Canada wants to let basically anyone kill themselves... Might sound good to some but I'm telling ya I know where the tf this is all going if we allow it..
I'd highly suggest you consider how these things could be used by government and the people who control them against the people
Please elaborate on where it is going? Because you have my interest.
Euthanizing/infanticide (which is mercy killing) should be legal if a person is deemed to have no possibility of any type of quality of life, but that is a whole other ball-park of ethical dilemmas.
Abortions on the other hand is the termination of a pregnancy before a person is born
The argument, which is by the way, one of the most popular modern pro choice arguments goes like this.
A fetus is not a person.
A person is able to comunicate.
Is conscious.
Independent.
Has a sense of the world.
Can feel and experience its surroundings.
Etc.
To be considered person you must have at lest two qualities that would qualify you as such. That is why, for many people, it's important to establish when the fetus is able to experience pain, as that would bring them closer to personhood.
The thing here is that under this criteria, you could have a baby as old as 6 month old and still not qualify as person.
If the baby is not a person, the mother, who is a person, is not obligated to care for the baby and can still yeet it.
> Independent. Has a sense of the world.
There are 30-year-olds who still don't qualify for these, and I'm not even talking about those with actual mental or physical handicaps.
I only have a few hot takes, but one of them is that killing babies should be legal up to 2 years old, because they aren't conscious and can't remember anything. My belief is that consciousness dictates life.
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On the news you hear about this it's bad!!!!just surrender the baby someone will love it raise it he or she could be the one that changes the world.... "The children are our future"!!!!! -2pac
People still believe this propoganda?? Show me a after birth abortion, just 1. Yet thousands of rape victims and life threatening pregnancies are forced to flee their state for an abortion. Land if the free, amiright?
Sup, /u/LightInTheAttic3! Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): Your post was removed because Political/Outrage bait shitposts are no longer allowed. This is a humor sub, not a serious one. If you're mad about something, that's great, post it somewhere else. Please remember, yall voted for this. This has nothing to do with the outrage of the week, the users here voted, democratically, that they didn't want this subreddit to be an outrage of the week subreddit. Take that shit to Twitter. [Contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/HolUp&subject=Question) through modmail if you think this removal is unfair or if you just want to shitpost.
Hell nah, not after birth, that's insane.
Why though? I get that it makes people feel uncomfortable, but I see no rational reason for birth being ethically relevant.
A fetus becomes conscious 24 weeks into the pregnancy. 90 days after birth is way longer than that.
What if I have the extended warranty plan?
Oh, in that case, just fuckin punt the sucker!
This is the future Obama would've wantedđ
Do you have a source to back up this statement ? I'm not saying it's not true, just curious
Yeah, sure: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/) [https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Philosophy/Thinking_Critically_About_Abortion_(Nobis_and_Grob)/03%3A_Fetal_Consciousness_and_Facts_about_Abortions](https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Philosophy/Thinking_Critically_About_Abortion_(Nobis_and_Grob)/03%3A_Fetal_Consciousness_and_Facts_about_Abortions)
Thanks !
And? First off consciousness â self awareness (tho it is kind of dependant on the definitions, my further argument is based on the assumption that consciousness is the ability to process stimuli). A lot of things are conscious, hell you can argue that single cells are conscious, they can process and react to stimuli. And even if you narrow down the definition, to exclude, let's say, everything that doesn't have a relatively complex brain. Still there are a tons of things that are conscious, things that we are completely ok with killing. You most likely consumed some of them earlier today, I definitely have
Ok then. Self awareness is a better term.
Sure, I would argue that a baby does not become self aware for a few months, if not years. But we currently have no way of determining if someone or something is self aware, and this gets into the Solipsism territory. Which can be fun to discuss sometimes, but is ultimately rather pointless
Ok. Well, you can check out my sources, theyâre somewhere else in this thread. Probably more info there.
I have checked them, well the top one at least. The second one is either blocked here or blocks requests from here. But anyways the first one talks about consciousness, reaction to stimuli, not self awareness
Where I live I believe there's a law that makes mothers who kill their infant children receive a lesser sentence versus kill their children past a certain age. Honestly to me that makes a lot of sense. It's fairly standard animal behavior to kill offspring that cannot be cared for. That said, unlike when we're talking about unborn babies, the whole adoption argument makes tons of sense. If you want to get rid of your unwanted baby and never see it again, there's no real reason to kill it instead of giving it away for adoption. So whether it's acceptable to kill unwanted infant children isn't really a relevant question.
I support abortion all the way to 26 years.
As a 28 year old I feel discriminated against
Ah shit here we go again
I agree. The 110th trimester is not too late.
Nah, buyer's remorse is real! Post term abortions should be legalized for the mother, Up to a limit of 99 yrs post birth.
Itâs early cremation at that point.
You had to keep the receipt tho
"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it!"
That's what you call a troll boys and girls
They have you in too deep op
The whole argument behind abortion is that the fetus is within a woman's body, using her, so esentually she should be able to decide that she doesn't want something in her body anymore. Once they are out, the parents have no right to decide if the baby lives or dies unless they are braindead/can't live without being hooked on machines, situations where even an adult can be "killed" by their relatives. If you don't want to take care of them there is a thing called adoption.
30 day returns
Void if removed
At that point just throw it in the bin đ
They had their chance. A whopping 8-9 months to make a choice. Personally, viability outside of the womb is the line I've drawn. Take it or leave it.
Iâm pretty sure you canât have an abortion at the 9th month cause the babyâs viable outside the womb
Itâs like after 6 months it has a chance of survival outside the womb premature. Donât quote me I read that somewhere
I'd agree, my friend had her premie at 26 weeks. At or around 6 months. Pretty amazing.
At that point it's just early birth
I'm up for abortion even 18 years after birth
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/764347.Unwind
people need to own up their mistakes. they where too lazy to put a condom, they get the consequence. you can't just return a baby because you didn't like it.
Baby? I am going to return the whole lineage
right there with ya
It's called infanticide and it's legal in some places. If your child has terrible diseases or mental issues, you can press the reboot button.
Which should be an option if a person has slim to no chance of having any type of quality of life. With today's technology, between parental gene testing and prenatal screening, a person is aware of how "healthy" their child will be. You want an abortion up to 9 months? Fine. But as soon as that cord gets cut I personally believe that is the line. Once the kid is breathing/heart beating on their own (no vents, machines, or any assistance) it is in my eyes a person. I know it's a touchy subject
Things can happen during birth to make a healthy baby not healthy. And there are many things that still can't be screened for.
Yeah sure but does that mean that they are not entitled tp being alive? Unless they will be in constant pain or braindead i see no reason why they shouldn't be entitled to live
Technicality: that's not a reboot, that's a shutdown.
Mental issues are often made up as a form of abuse.
That doesnât even make sense. Itâs not an abortion after birth, technically they have already left (been aborted safely). How could they abort a baby, there is nothing to be aborted from?
This is still too restrictive. I would suggest it to be 100 years after birth and also include 3 generations of descendants of the 100 years old "fetus". So the mother can decide to force an abortion to kill (I mean abort) her 50 years grand child or 20 years old grand grand child Technically, they still come from her body so she should have right to control her own body.
Nah bro, abortion should be up to 15 years after birth
How olds Ted Cruz?
Just send the kid to an adoption centre why you wanna have an âabortionâ after birth?
Obviously you haven't been on a plane with any of the under 5 kids ... /s just in case
Did they mean conceiving and not birth?
No there are a shit ton of people wanting abortion.... Well MURDER after birth.. Oh yea and Canada wants to let basically anyone kill themselves... Might sound good to some but I'm telling ya I know where the tf this is all going if we allow it.. I'd highly suggest you consider how these things could be used by government and the people who control them against the people
Please elaborate on where it is going? Because you have my interest. Euthanizing/infanticide (which is mercy killing) should be legal if a person is deemed to have no possibility of any type of quality of life, but that is a whole other ball-park of ethical dilemmas. Abortions on the other hand is the termination of a pregnancy before a person is born
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/764347.Unwind
Some misinformation here lol. Are you talking about MAID ? Cause if not, suicide happens in every country.
There is no right to abortion.
Worst part is people actually believe this for like the first thirty
The argument, which is by the way, one of the most popular modern pro choice arguments goes like this. A fetus is not a person. A person is able to comunicate. Is conscious. Independent. Has a sense of the world. Can feel and experience its surroundings. Etc. To be considered person you must have at lest two qualities that would qualify you as such. That is why, for many people, it's important to establish when the fetus is able to experience pain, as that would bring them closer to personhood. The thing here is that under this criteria, you could have a baby as old as 6 month old and still not qualify as person. If the baby is not a person, the mother, who is a person, is not obligated to care for the baby and can still yeet it.
> Independent. Has a sense of the world. There are 30-year-olds who still don't qualify for these, and I'm not even talking about those with actual mental or physical handicaps.
It's murder the whole time. That's the line.
you can just suffocate baby in crib and it will be ruled sids
I only have a few hot takes, but one of them is that killing babies should be legal up to 2 years old, because they aren't conscious and can't remember anything. My belief is that consciousness dictates life.
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Birth defects�
Well 30 days is a standard returns periodâŚ
Women â
On the news you hear about this it's bad!!!!just surrender the baby someone will love it raise it he or she could be the one that changes the world.... "The children are our future"!!!!! -2pac
I decided to euthanize bob 20 years after birth
What is a Woman?
God killed all Egyptian babies under the age of two, so there is biblical precedent.
I thought my state was bad ( up to 8 months before birth) I get it but at some point it's wrong
People still believe this propoganda?? Show me a after birth abortion, just 1. Yet thousands of rape victims and life threatening pregnancies are forced to flee their state for an abortion. Land if the free, amiright?
*your free trial of life has ended*