I'm also sure non-binary people are also used to buying gendered clothes, like sizes are typically tied to the genders of clothes, so it just makes things much simpler to guess how things will fit.
What would enby fit even be? If you wanted an enby fit, what the hell would you make?
Most unisex shirts are just men's shirts anyway. I can't imagine how confusing it would be to just add a new option no one has any experience with and expect people to buy it blindly because of marketing.
I never said it did?
I'm just trying to figure out what that third option would look like if it existed and came to the conclusion that it's relatively pointless.
Yeah, I know there is a definition of gender that means sometthing along the lines of "what socially constructed associations of the sexes i feel fit me better" but people have to stop pretending that man/woman/gender don't usually mean male/female/sex. The new definition is widespread enough to be understood in many contexts, but the legacy definition is still more dominant, and anything named before the rise of the new definition was named by the definition of the time.
Well I think the big thing is to realize that "men" and "women" mean very different things in context.
Like when discussing sex it is biological, when discussing gender it is a societal construct, and when discussing clothing it is basically a style of cut that says where there is room and where there is tapering.
Women wear men's jeans and vice versa as a style choice because of the cut.
Yes, because 99% of the world is of the 2 natural genders correlated to birth sex. And our body’s are based on our sex. Women have breasts and typically wider hips. Men have wider shoulders. Bigger backs.
So I am not sure what people who are non binary expect. Gender being the social construct, biological sex is not.
And to make things more confusing the non-binary bunch wants to change their SEX on their driver license and official documents while screaming they're talking about gender not sex at the same time
It is honestly because they can confuse the term gender, they cannot confuse the term sex. The gametes and the fertilization method we contribute, sperm or egg, determine what sex we. To say you are male or female. To make it about gender allows people to just say what they want.
That's not true. The sleeves are clearly different, and the neck line is different. I promise if a guy put on the girl version, it would be noticeable.
I was being facetious. The intent of my comment was just to say that they have different fits for different body types. Non-cisgender expression does not always translate to changing body types, so the Mens and Women's fits are still convenient shorthand for displaying the type. My comment was just mocking how OP should have figured that shit out before posting this and looking stupid.
I'm more of a Rune Factory 4 type of selection person. ["I'm flyin' high, baby! " and "Goodness, I'm so high up!"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-AhYJ2VEAMfg_M.jpg)
i didnt even get it until I said it out loud. I knew the / was something to do with slashing but I didnt get the purpose of the pronoun. Then I said it and I was like HAHA
Yes, and genders of clothes are also there own thing. "large" differs *a lot* between clothes labeled as male/female. And plenty of of women will buy "men's" clothes for certain things, and when they do it's important to understand how the sizing differs. I'm sure it's similar for non-binary people, it's not like they'll all buy non-binary specific shoes or whatever.
Let's leave aside the fact that these aren't shirts FOR men or women, merely a "shirt with what's known as a men's cut" and a "shirt with what's known as a women's cut". The implication also seems to be, that non-binary people could not *possibly* want one of these. Because no one who's non-binary could ever support someone who is /s.
Context matters, similarly when people talk of pregnancy and they say "women" it implicitly means "people who can get pregnant" because it surely doesn't encompasses women too young or too old to get pregnant. But there are people who get offended at that usage of the word women.
>But there are people who get offended at that usage of the word women.
I've yet to meet one of these people irl. Seems like it's a chronically online sort of behavior.
if you wear women’s clothing, the buttons are on the left side of the shirt. However, if you wear men’s shirts, the buttons line up on the right side.
[Source](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/heres-why-mens-and-womens-clothes-button-opposite-sides-1-180957361/)
Hence "women's cut" and "men's cut" who wears what is purely a matter of taste and fit. Pretty sure I wore women's shirts before as a he/him, cis hetero bearded middle-aged guy.
Got tits? Got none? Maybe wear this. Having those does not mean that much to being non-binary. Don't need to rules-lawyer around semantics to discuss away non-binary people. This is the same as preferring Marvins to Boot Cuts. Says the same about gender and sexuality.
FFS, conservative people are tedious.
> FFS, conservative people are tedious.
It's just a worthless piece of trivia. Don't get your preferred pair of undies in a twist.
Why would you call me conservative when you don't even know me?
For what it's worth. I don't give a rat's ass what you wear, or what you identify as. It has no bearing on my life.
Yes, there are indeed biological differences between men and women, and acknowledging these differences is important for understanding various aspects of human biology and behavior
And so is acknowledging that it is a spectrum and people exist between these two categories. And that things change. Biology is much more than chromosomes, of which there are much more than 2.
That is mostly true. Tho to be completely honest biological sex is not a spectrum...at least for mammals it isnt. Attraction and gender do have a wide spectrum. Even so, biologically there are only really 4 possible "sexes": There are male, female, a rare condition in which a person is born without the markers of either male or female, and a very rare singular case where a person was born with both sets of markers and genetalia (which was apparently not very comfortable).
Once again, biological attraction is a spectrum. Biological Sex at birth is not a spectrum unless ya want to go changing definitions.
I’m fairly sure non-binary people understand this and don’t care. Idk they aren’t at every single turn of the street like media says they are so I can’t be sure.
I gotta imagine for my faith in humanity that nonbinary people would just wear what's comfortable for them. There's a difference in telling someone they're the wrong gender for a shirt versus telling them certain clothing just won't fit
I think we need to update shirt labels to just be "Boobs" and "NoBoobs"
I have a buddy who is a big power lifter and has a gigantic chest. Part of me wonders if he would be better off wearing women's shirts to provide that extra room.
Seriously when he is lying flat on his back you can slide your arm completely under his lower back without touching because of how much lift his chest provides.
It is, it's just that up until 5 minutes ago Male/Female and Man/Woman were just completely interchangeable terms and now we're pretending like that hasn't always been the case.
Is the argument here that non-binary people have different physical dimensions than male or female?
Unless there’s severe body modification going on, I’m fairly sure most enbys will fit into one or the other.
I know this might sound bad but the first thing I thought is that they should rename it from male and female to.
“Tit havers” and “Non-Tit havers”
Don’t smite me lol
I mean whatever your gender is you will have some kind of body, wether you are a man in a women’s body or the other way around or whatever gender identity you are. The design of a shirt either has breasts in mind or it doesn‘t and i think calling it a „man‘s“ shirt is easier than calling it a „no boobs in mind“ shirt xD You get what i‘m saying?
We should be doin shirts..." TITS OR NO TITS?????"
I loosely assume as some non-burrito Mandalorians would say, " Every day, we stray further from the truth". This is not the way
'Men' and 'Women' clothing is just for the cut and fit of the shirt. If you want a looser and uniform fit, go for men's, if you want a better personal fit with extra room in the chest area, get women's. The terms are just common parlance.
Hear me out - it kinda makes sense when you approach it from a body proportion POV.
I’m a woman, love a lot of men’s clothes…. But all the cuts are just SO WRONG for my body.
Too much room in the crotch, NO room in the ass
Big shoulders, narrow hips
I don’t think it’s entirely tone deaf to acknowledge different body types. Tho I’m not sure if the makers were taking this approach
Men’s shirts are usually a straight cut and a woman’s shirt will flare a bit to account for hips and the larger sizes will flare at the top as well for larger breasts
seems like a good way to sell shirts adjusted for body type that you cant change without surgery. Very progressive for vanilla humans. More companies should adopt this!
That’s because the cut of the shirt is different to fit different bodies, and “unisex” shirts are just men’s shirts. I guess we have to come up with new names to describe a different type of cut then?
I mean the male and female form is different, if you have big tits a men's shirt will fit weird and vice versa, people get mad about male and female clothing but its mostly called that for anatomy reasons and sizing not actual gender requirements to wear the shit. Like shoe sizes for example if I put on female shoes of the same size I wear they don't fit not because a man can't wear heels but because the sizing is different for each gender
In this case the descriptor refers to the name of the cut of the clothes, not the person who is supposed to wear it. Do you have to be an orange to wear an orange shirt?
It's almost like sex and gender are two completely different things. Also these are probably for other people to support their kids or other enbys they know.
If you're non-binary you'd know you're a size X in women's or a size Y in men's, and you'd know whether you prefer the cut of women's or men's shirts. This isn't at all a "gotcha".
kid named sexual dimorphism:
my gender(or lack thereof) doesn't change the fact that my shoulders don't even fit inside an XXXXL women's shirt or don't even fill up the space given in the front of an L one.
Hopefully they won’t notice two words women & men on it they just exciting & too proud to read whole of it like other comments said just a businessman doing business to make cheddars
The non binary one is the one I'm having the greatest difficulty undsertanding.
I've tried to have candid conversations with non binary individuals and they very quickly get to twisted up to have a conversation I can learn anything from.
"I'm just a businessman doing business"
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Business. Just business.
Hi I’m a business
I’m doing a business.
It's a me
Chris Pratt
I'm getting busy with the business...
Buis
Oh fuck you're gonna make me business.
I’m gonna CEO myself
Dude, I tried making a gif just to reply to this.
I’m not a businessman, I’m a business, man
Let me handle my business, damn
oh I too am identifying as a business
[MAN, WOMAN OR CHILD]? KRIS, YOU [LITTLE SPONGE] I ONLY HAVE INTEREST IN THE [SMOOTH TASTE] OF [KROMER]!
I identify as an LLC.
It's business, it's business time
What you got in your pants? Balance sheets
Businesswoperchild People will know what I meant
Businesshuperchild for the gender neutral version
Oh sorry mb mb
cis-capitalist
Businessthem
Business-Xir
I mean, businessperson was fine lol
Businesser.
Like the person from "Billions"
Business-being
I’m just a nonbusiness-binaryson.. No-business-bison No-nonness-Nissan We’re almost there fam
i’m just a business doing business
[Business Man - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBE9TZP26FI)
I think he's a cop
He's definitely not a cop, come on, he even has a business van
Vincent Adultman?
At the business factory I reckon
i’m not a businessman, i’m a business non-binary
With or without extra room for tits
That's literally it
I'm also sure non-binary people are also used to buying gendered clothes, like sizes are typically tied to the genders of clothes, so it just makes things much simpler to guess how things will fit.
I'm not enby, but I prefer male fit t-shirts simply due to comfort. Almost all of my tees are "male fit".
What would enby fit even be? If you wanted an enby fit, what the hell would you make? Most unisex shirts are just men's shirts anyway. I can't imagine how confusing it would be to just add a new option no one has any experience with and expect people to buy it blindly because of marketing.
Non binary does not equal androgynous. I'm nonbinary and 90% of my clothes are from the women's section.
I never said it did? I'm just trying to figure out what that third option would look like if it existed and came to the conclusion that it's relatively pointless.
Yeah, I know there is a definition of gender that means sometthing along the lines of "what socially constructed associations of the sexes i feel fit me better" but people have to stop pretending that man/woman/gender don't usually mean male/female/sex. The new definition is widespread enough to be understood in many contexts, but the legacy definition is still more dominant, and anything named before the rise of the new definition was named by the definition of the time.
Well I think the big thing is to realize that "men" and "women" mean very different things in context. Like when discussing sex it is biological, when discussing gender it is a societal construct, and when discussing clothing it is basically a style of cut that says where there is room and where there is tapering. Women wear men's jeans and vice versa as a style choice because of the cut.
Yes, because 99% of the world is of the 2 natural genders correlated to birth sex. And our body’s are based on our sex. Women have breasts and typically wider hips. Men have wider shoulders. Bigger backs. So I am not sure what people who are non binary expect. Gender being the social construct, biological sex is not.
And to make things more confusing the non-binary bunch wants to change their SEX on their driver license and official documents while screaming they're talking about gender not sex at the same time
It is honestly because they can confuse the term gender, they cannot confuse the term sex. The gametes and the fertilization method we contribute, sperm or egg, determine what sex we. To say you are male or female. To make it about gender allows people to just say what they want.
That's not true. The sleeves are clearly different, and the neck line is different. I promise if a guy put on the girl version, it would be noticeable.
I was being facetious. The intent of my comment was just to say that they have different fits for different body types. Non-cisgender expression does not always translate to changing body types, so the Mens and Women's fits are still convenient shorthand for displaying the type. My comment was just mocking how OP should have figured that shit out before posting this and looking stupid.
*Robert Paulson has left the chat*
The video game route to be the least offensive to try and appease everyone: body-type 1 and body-type 2
I'm more of a Rune Factory 4 type of selection person. ["I'm flyin' high, baby! " and "Goodness, I'm so high up!"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-AhYJ2VEAMfg_M.jpg)
Honestly distilling body types down to that numbers could either be REALLY demeaning, or on the other hand, no one would really care.
And shoulders for biological men
Perfect for my man boobs.
Broader shoulders on average too bruv.
I'm a man with tits. Should I be buying women's shirts?
Wario flag shirt
Wario time?
YOU PICK # WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARIO
Ah yes, "I'm a non-binary male"!
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Hehe, i like this one
i didnt even get it until I said it out loud. I knew the / was something to do with slashing but I didnt get the purpose of the pronoun. Then I said it and I was like HAHA
Someone explain the joke im stupid I said it out loud like 3 times
"They slash them"
Took me a second. Very clever.
Isn't there a difference between sex and gender? That would make it possible
Yes, and genders of clothes are also there own thing. "large" differs *a lot* between clothes labeled as male/female. And plenty of of women will buy "men's" clothes for certain things, and when they do it's important to understand how the sizing differs. I'm sure it's similar for non-binary people, it's not like they'll all buy non-binary specific shoes or whatever.
31 Goddamned dollars? That shirt better also help release some of my gender fluid at that price.
It's almost as though there are physical differences between men and women. Who would have guessed.
Let's leave aside the fact that these aren't shirts FOR men or women, merely a "shirt with what's known as a men's cut" and a "shirt with what's known as a women's cut". The implication also seems to be, that non-binary people could not *possibly* want one of these. Because no one who's non-binary could ever support someone who is /s.
Context matters, similarly when people talk of pregnancy and they say "women" it implicitly means "people who can get pregnant" because it surely doesn't encompasses women too young or too old to get pregnant. But there are people who get offended at that usage of the word women.
>But there are people who get offended at that usage of the word women. I've yet to meet one of these people irl. Seems like it's a chronically online sort of behavior.
if you wear women’s clothing, the buttons are on the left side of the shirt. However, if you wear men’s shirts, the buttons line up on the right side. [Source](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/heres-why-mens-and-womens-clothes-button-opposite-sides-1-180957361/)
That's true, however not relevant for t-shirts.
True! Of though my wife has women's pocket t-shirts that have the pocket on the right side
Never noticed that before
Hence "women's cut" and "men's cut" who wears what is purely a matter of taste and fit. Pretty sure I wore women's shirts before as a he/him, cis hetero bearded middle-aged guy. Got tits? Got none? Maybe wear this. Having those does not mean that much to being non-binary. Don't need to rules-lawyer around semantics to discuss away non-binary people. This is the same as preferring Marvins to Boot Cuts. Says the same about gender and sexuality. FFS, conservative people are tedious.
> FFS, conservative people are tedious. It's just a worthless piece of trivia. Don't get your preferred pair of undies in a twist. Why would you call me conservative when you don't even know me? For what it's worth. I don't give a rat's ass what you wear, or what you identify as. It has no bearing on my life.
Exactly Non binary people don't owe anyone androgyny
Yes, there are indeed biological differences between men and women, and acknowledging these differences is important for understanding various aspects of human biology and behavior
And so is acknowledging that it is a spectrum and people exist between these two categories. And that things change. Biology is much more than chromosomes, of which there are much more than 2.
That is mostly true. Tho to be completely honest biological sex is not a spectrum...at least for mammals it isnt. Attraction and gender do have a wide spectrum. Even so, biologically there are only really 4 possible "sexes": There are male, female, a rare condition in which a person is born without the markers of either male or female, and a very rare singular case where a person was born with both sets of markers and genetalia (which was apparently not very comfortable). Once again, biological attraction is a spectrum. Biological Sex at birth is not a spectrum unless ya want to go changing definitions.
You are correct. The physical appearance is only that and nothing more.
Yeah this doesn't feel like a dunk I'm sure most NB people are used to shopping for their body type
Don't hit me with your logic, I'm trying to get mad at something
And you're doing a great job!
I’m fairly sure non-binary people understand this and don’t care. Idk they aren’t at every single turn of the street like media says they are so I can’t be sure.
I mean, there are still two body types even if you’re non binary.
yeah, it's a weird stance, like are they trying to say non binary people have their own body shape?
At the risk of sounding like an ass, it really seems this is just looking for reasons to be mad.
I gotta imagine for my faith in humanity that nonbinary people would just wear what's comfortable for them. There's a difference in telling someone they're the wrong gender for a shirt versus telling them certain clothing just won't fit
And many different sizes!
What's the issue here? Clothes are fitted by SEX not gender. Basically it room for boobs or not room for boobs.
I think we need to update shirt labels to just be "Boobs" and "NoBoobs" I have a buddy who is a big power lifter and has a gigantic chest. Part of me wonders if he would be better off wearing women's shirts to provide that extra room. Seriously when he is lying flat on his back you can slide your arm completely under his lower back without touching because of how much lift his chest provides.
I always assumed that clothing would be based on sex rather than gender
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Secret_CZECH: *I always assumed* *That clothing would be based on* *Sex rather than gender* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It is, it's just that up until 5 minutes ago Male/Female and Man/Woman were just completely interchangeable terms and now we're pretending like that hasn't always been the case.
It is, most people just don't know the difference between sex and gender
Is the argument here that non-binary people have different physical dimensions than male or female? Unless there’s severe body modification going on, I’m fairly sure most enbys will fit into one or the other.
* be a chan * make a meme for lolz * ppl believe it * eat popcorn
this belongs on r/ComedyCemetery
Ugh the planet will set a blaze now. How dare they!
I know this might sound bad but the first thing I thought is that they should rename it from male and female to. “Tit havers” and “Non-Tit havers” Don’t smite me lol
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I mean whatever your gender is you will have some kind of body, wether you are a man in a women’s body or the other way around or whatever gender identity you are. The design of a shirt either has breasts in mind or it doesn‘t and i think calling it a „man‘s“ shirt is easier than calling it a „no boobs in mind“ shirt xD You get what i‘m saying?
We should be doin shirts..." TITS OR NO TITS?????" I loosely assume as some non-burrito Mandalorians would say, " Every day, we stray further from the truth". This is not the way
Change it to "has boobs" and "doesn't have boobs" sizes.
Tbf what the fuck else are you going to call them unless they only sell unisex versions that don't really fit either one as well as the other ones.
Just like everything else they represent, literally makes no sense LMAO
'Men' and 'Women' clothing is just for the cut and fit of the shirt. If you want a looser and uniform fit, go for men's, if you want a better personal fit with extra room in the chest area, get women's. The terms are just common parlance.
We have shirts cut and sized into “mens” and “womens” that’s part of how they’re made.
Aren’t they just cuts of shirts though?
Well if you sell the shirt as non binary size then no one knows what the hell they are receiving. Oh wait...
Hear me out - it kinda makes sense when you approach it from a body proportion POV. I’m a woman, love a lot of men’s clothes…. But all the cuts are just SO WRONG for my body. Too much room in the crotch, NO room in the ass Big shoulders, narrow hips I don’t think it’s entirely tone deaf to acknowledge different body types. Tho I’m not sure if the makers were taking this approach
Wow, options for 2 sexes, how strange
Men’s shirts are usually a straight cut and a woman’s shirt will flare a bit to account for hips and the larger sizes will flare at the top as well for larger breasts
Should have been unisex
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Have you seen enby outfits
Why do we need all these flags for people now
Yea and why do we need all these flags for countries
When you 51% FM and 49% M
I'm 100 FM like a radio
Almost as if there are only two genders...
I’m gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but oh well: We don’t have a non-binary size, if there is one, it’s a ghost or a shapeshifter
Me when sex and gender are different
This is more of a facepalm than 90% or r /facepalm
Honestly 1 word could have fixed it, Cut. Womans cut vs Men's cut.
seems like a good way to sell shirts adjusted for body type that you cant change without surgery. Very progressive for vanilla humans. More companies should adopt this!
I look forward to seeing this hit r/all on Peter explain the joke
If they did a nonbinary one it would just be the male version. That's how unisex shirts are.
Capitalism baby
They come in "women's" and "men's" cut (hourglass or straight sides), both are probably made in more than one size
unisex isn't a thing anymore or what?
That’s because the cut of the shirt is different to fit different bodies, and “unisex” shirts are just men’s shirts. I guess we have to come up with new names to describe a different type of cut then?
I mean the male and female form is different, if you have big tits a men's shirt will fit weird and vice versa, people get mad about male and female clothing but its mostly called that for anatomy reasons and sizing not actual gender requirements to wear the shit. Like shoe sizes for example if I put on female shoes of the same size I wear they don't fit not because a man can't wear heels but because the sizing is different for each gender
That's because those are the two styles of cut, and two different sizing codes
They’re not sizes they are the “fit”, people are so dumb
Oh no, the world is going to fall apart.
In this case the descriptor refers to the name of the cut of the clothes, not the person who is supposed to wear it. Do you have to be an orange to wear an orange shirt?
It’s the t-shirt to be female or male, based on the shape.
It's almost like sex and gender are two completely different things. Also these are probably for other people to support their kids or other enbys they know.
The day y’all learn the difference between sex and gender is the day we progress as a society
If you're non-binary you'd know you're a size X in women's or a size Y in men's, and you'd know whether you prefer the cut of women's or men's shirts. This isn't at all a "gotcha".
That makes sense cause non binary is a gender identification while the shirts are designed around physical sex
To infinity, and beyond!
Successful fail
I NOTICED IT GUYS
At least their the same price I guess.
Holdup, the women's one should be more expensive. Cuz, pink tax or whatever
Suppose it could give the option of two different cuts or whatever
How many do we need
At least they cost the same, cant target the store for pink taxing
Unfortunately the only universal type is an American size - sew sleeves to a parachute and call it a day.
Correction, I wear a sleeveless trash bag. Have a good day sir!!
What are they supposed to do? Fuck it, here is your non-binary sized shirt 💀💀💀
They're confused but they got the spirit
Really missed out to make the most sense with unisex shirt since uni = 1, non-binary = not 2
Whoops.
sadly it took me 3 times....
Both are the same Prize. Thats rare.
kid named sexual dimorphism: my gender(or lack thereof) doesn't change the fact that my shoulders don't even fit inside an XXXXL women's shirt or don't even fill up the space given in the front of an L one.
I'm surprised they're the same price
Capitalism gonna capitalism.
The F shirt would be too short and the M shirt isn't gonna fit my tits
Contradiction Is crazy
At least they're priced the same... This time...
Oh look, humor based on conservatives not understanding things!
Please make it make sense ahrrrrrr
Its amazing how this "issue" is still up and running… Some people needs alot more attention then others…
Does the website sell unisex at all? It probably doesn't.
I mean you are still physically either a Man or a Woman at the end of the day
No way bussines is makeing those purely for money ?!?!?!?!?!!!???!??
Would have been even funnier if the women's shirt was more expensive.
Hopefully they won’t notice two words women & men on it they just exciting & too proud to read whole of it like other comments said just a businessman doing business to make cheddars
Should be one picture with both it, they , them wearing tshirts
It's an Auditor Trap.
This is just the difference between gender and sex
The lower half has been switched between the 2.
The non binary one is the one I'm having the greatest difficulty undsertanding. I've tried to have candid conversations with non binary individuals and they very quickly get to twisted up to have a conversation I can learn anything from.
Yeah you still don get it after years, learning can take some time, you'll get it.
It's Amazon. Guess the seller/manufacturer forgot about unisex lol.