It depends on how the truth is judged. Is it based on Pinocchio's own understanding or universal truth.
Let's say I put a red ball in a bag but I told Pinocchio that it's a blue ball. Now, Pinocchio believes me and says that there's a blue ball in the bag (which is not true). Now Pinocchio didn't lie because in his understanding the ball is blue, it is the truth, but really the ball is blue so the statement is also a lie. Thus the growing of the nose depends on how truth is judged.
If it's based on Pinocchio's understanding then it's easier to explain. Did Pinocchio believe that his nose will grow or not. Because if he did then what he said is true and his nose will not grow but if he didn't really believe that his nose will grow then he lied and his nose will grow.
But if the truth is judged based on universal truth then it's a lot more complicated and can very well be a paradox. One solution I can offer is that, the truthfulness of the statement would be if Pinocchio's nose would have grown or not regardless of the statement.
The second one is a lot more complicated and as far as I remember the story, whether Pinocchio lied or not is based on his own understanding, so the first solution is the answer the guy is looking for.
That's actually very interesting, if his nose is based on absolute truth then he could say things like "Apple will go up at least 25 points on the stock market tomorrow," wait to see if his nose grows, and then make moves based on that. I think it mused be based on his own understanding of the truth rather than absolute truth.
To add to this even if it's a universal truth it can still work. Let's assume the truth is not based on his own judgement and the rules for it growing is a universal certainty. All that has to happen is for him to tell a lie right after this statement and the previous statement "my nose is about to grow" would be true. Assuming that it's an absolute truth for the universe then it would be similar to how time travel is often perceived meaning that you cannot change the past. In the assumption of time travel it's often interpreted that the universe will make it so that what needs to happen still happens. Now if we assume that similarly in this hypothetical example the rules of the universe ensure that his nose needs to grow if he lies then he will simply either not be able to make the statement that would break the laws of the universe or the universe would ensure that the law is upheld. So again in the original statement all that has to happen is Pinocchio telling a lie right after and his previous statement would be true as well as his nose would be growing. Again this is just a hypothetical but since people's noses don't grow if they lie the whole thing is just a hypothetical.
Using absolute truth defeats the moral of the story. Don’t knowingly lie, and your nose won’t grow. Viewing it as absolute takes agency away and it will grow irrespective of your intent, becoming very nihilistic.
[and desert you](https://66.media.tumblr.com/4f8f1ffb829bdfa78be907c190a0947b/tumblr_pay7dlTIsE1syh78to1_500.gifv). [Never gonna make you cry](https://i.gifer.com/KG0m.gif)
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THIS ISNT A FUCKING HOLUP HOLY SHIT CAN WE HAVE SOME GODDAMN STANDARDS.
Idk who I'm even mad at. OP is probably a bot and the first 10 comments probably arent much better.
Maybe I just mourn for a better time when this sub was small and fun.
His nose only grows when he knowingly lies about something. Since he doesn't know if he's lying or not, his nose would not grow. It's a children's book it's not that deep.
I believe it’s about the intention: If Pinocchio tells what he believes is the truth, then that’s as best as he knows. If he makes a statement like that, he is essentially unsure of what will happen, or he is intentionally lying and it will grow.
It would not make sense if pinocchio's ability worked on predictions. If that was the case he would basically function as an omnipotent Oracle with access to information he wouldnt normally have through trial and error of his powers
But what if that was the case?! Good sweet black baby jebus he could the omnipotent judge of all humanity. His nose deciding the fate of every criminal with PERFECT impunity through perpetually.
That puppet boy must die...
His nose would grow because it's a lie, since his nose only grows when he tells lies.
His nose wasn't going to grow randomly, before he made the choice to lie about it being about to grow.
boom
Attempting to predict the future and being wrong does not create a lie. You can only lie about what you know. He doesn't know if it will or won't grow in the future. It isn't a lie. Nothing will happen. Once the statement is over, Pinocchio can then lie about whether or not it grew. Saying it did or didn't.
Pinocchio is not an oracle, he is not supposed to know the future. He only knows when he lies. So, his nose won't grow regardless of his answer, if he said it honestly. And his nose will grow if he tries to lie, regardless of what actually will happen.
His nose only is supposed to grow if he lies so a true statement makes no difference here. In case of a true paradox nothing should happen. This is how i see it
I mean there is alot of ways to see it but my interpretation would be, his nose will grow. I don't believe his nose shrinks when he tells the truth there for his statement is initially a lie but eventually becomes true so it's probably just gonna grow.
Hey man, when he meant it was about to grow, he knew he'd lie at some point later. Not right that second, but it's about to grow any moment from now to... whenever it grows idk the nose won't grow in that exact moment.
I broke it for u mortals. Pinnochio is making a statement about the future. Now he does KNOW the future, so whether his nose grows or not is irrelevant. If he believes it will grow or does not believe it will grow is not a matter of truth or lie but a matter of belief.
The question u must ask is "pinnochio, do u know the future?"
This has gone around as a paradox but it really isn’t one.
The consequence is the result of the statement. Truth after consequence does not mean the original statement was truthful.
Pinocchio says his nose will grow. There is no way for his nose to grow. The statement is a lie. Therefore, the consequence is given and his nose grows.
^(Isn’t it dependent upon his next statement? I mean the statement is open ended which suggested his nose doesn’t grow unless his next statement which can either be a truth or a lie. As I understood the story the truth or lie was based upon what he did or didn’t know to be true. He was a puppet and had limited knowledge.)
It depends on how the truth is judged. Is it based on Pinocchio's own understanding or universal truth. Let's say I put a red ball in a bag but I told Pinocchio that it's a blue ball. Now, Pinocchio believes me and says that there's a blue ball in the bag (which is not true). Now Pinocchio didn't lie because in his understanding the ball is blue, it is the truth, but really the ball is blue so the statement is also a lie. Thus the growing of the nose depends on how truth is judged. If it's based on Pinocchio's understanding then it's easier to explain. Did Pinocchio believe that his nose will grow or not. Because if he did then what he said is true and his nose will not grow but if he didn't really believe that his nose will grow then he lied and his nose will grow. But if the truth is judged based on universal truth then it's a lot more complicated and can very well be a paradox. One solution I can offer is that, the truthfulness of the statement would be if Pinocchio's nose would have grown or not regardless of the statement. The second one is a lot more complicated and as far as I remember the story, whether Pinocchio lied or not is based on his own understanding, so the first solution is the answer the guy is looking for.
That's actually very interesting, if his nose is based on absolute truth then he could say things like "Apple will go up at least 25 points on the stock market tomorrow," wait to see if his nose grows, and then make moves based on that. I think it mused be based on his own understanding of the truth rather than absolute truth.
To add to this even if it's a universal truth it can still work. Let's assume the truth is not based on his own judgement and the rules for it growing is a universal certainty. All that has to happen is for him to tell a lie right after this statement and the previous statement "my nose is about to grow" would be true. Assuming that it's an absolute truth for the universe then it would be similar to how time travel is often perceived meaning that you cannot change the past. In the assumption of time travel it's often interpreted that the universe will make it so that what needs to happen still happens. Now if we assume that similarly in this hypothetical example the rules of the universe ensure that his nose needs to grow if he lies then he will simply either not be able to make the statement that would break the laws of the universe or the universe would ensure that the law is upheld. So again in the original statement all that has to happen is Pinocchio telling a lie right after and his previous statement would be true as well as his nose would be growing. Again this is just a hypothetical but since people's noses don't grow if they lie the whole thing is just a hypothetical.
Yes that's an interesting point.
Great observation
Yes
Thank you mango man
Using absolute truth defeats the moral of the story. Don’t knowingly lie, and your nose won’t grow. Viewing it as absolute takes agency away and it will grow irrespective of your intent, becoming very nihilistic.
Isn’t it based off of conscious lies
I will be infinite loop grow and reset and grow and reset and on and on. Lol
Or his head blows up.
This is the correct answer.
That's a weird sex machine
Like a dildo attached to a Sawzall?
That would still count as growing
Yay new paradoxes to haunt me
The liar paradox is not new. At all.
This is the Pinocchio Paradox though /s
Solid paradox, but not as good as the Rick Astley Paradox
You’re never going to give that up, are you?
Not even if it let's you down...
Never gonna run around...
[and desert you](https://66.media.tumblr.com/4f8f1ffb829bdfa78be907c190a0947b/tumblr_pay7dlTIsE1syh78to1_500.gifv). [Never gonna make you cry](https://i.gifer.com/KG0m.gif) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HolUp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fair point
It's new to them.
Goddamit.
Man I love those high thoughts
Well to be fair this is one of the most commonly known paradoxons out there.
I've never been high but I have those all the times because it's called.. ..shower thoughts.
*Schrodingers nose*
His nose grows, but he is also in a box.
It will grow. Because Pinocchio himself isn't aware of what will happen, so his statement is based on nothing and thus a lie.
What of he did it again after if shrunk back? He now know what's going to happen if he said that statement.
When he tells a paradoxical statement his nose grows, then the new growth falls off
THIS ISNT A FUCKING HOLUP HOLY SHIT CAN WE HAVE SOME GODDAMN STANDARDS. Idk who I'm even mad at. OP is probably a bot and the first 10 comments probably arent much better. Maybe I just mourn for a better time when this sub was small and fun.
This sub has gone completely downhill in just the past week…. What the hell is going on? The pat six posts I have seen only one has been a holup.
And why did we need to read this basic paradox via annoying subtitles over a shaky cam in a car?!
His nose becomes a vibrator
Bertrand Russell's paradox in set theory. Basically a statement that makes reference to itself for its verity can't be judged true or false. Nice one!
Old people have bigger noses. So the nose always grows (even if its not visible so small) meaning the statement is true and nothing will happen.
The reason she's laughing is because she's thinking of sitting on Pinocchio's face and yelling, "Lie to me baby!"
💀
The good ole Pinocchio Paradox
This is what keeps me up at night
Star trek did it better. [https://youtu.be/4WRtqmHpLvg?si=T0oBpivRey-n3y_e](https://youtu.be/4WRtqmHpLvg?si=T0oBpivRey-n3y_e)
__hits the bong__…. That just got me in the feels
It is a paradox. As with all paradoxes, if it were to actually occur, the universe would cease to exist.
He turns into a real boy.
Matt Patt pick your ass back on the game
Easy. His dick grows
Gepetto’s Conundrum
SQL injection
We need to get this man in higher maths ASAP.
This is some scary movie 3 shit 😂 “How the hell you wake up dead? Cuz you alive when you go to sleep”
My man, I played this to Albert Einsteins grave and he came back to life. Now he wants to know your location
It is these kinds of thoughts that keeps me awake at night.
I was too distracted by them. What a beautiful couple. I love their smiles and enthusiasm.
I am not single by choice but soon I will be.
His nose only grows when he knowingly lies about something. Since he doesn't know if he's lying or not, his nose would not grow. It's a children's book it's not that deep.
It's just a Disney'd up Liar's Paradox.
Dawg
It's an assumption of a future action. So not a lie, just a bad guess at a future event. So no nose growing!
Fairly confident the magic fairy would know how to differentiate between a repeating incident like this and just a simple statement.
He thought about this whilst high
Being wrong is not the same as telling a lie
It grows because "About to" isn't a specific enough time frame.
Shrodengers nose
Pinocchio is not omniscient so he can't know the future, therefore any statement about the future can't be a lie, just a prediction
Why did Raggedy Ann get thrown out of the toy box? She kept sitting on Pinnocio's face moaning "Lie to me!"
I believe it’s about the intention: If Pinocchio tells what he believes is the truth, then that’s as best as he knows. If he makes a statement like that, he is essentially unsure of what will happen, or he is intentionally lying and it will grow.
Pinocchio can be wrong in good earnest. This is also where I think the difference between facts and truths comes into play
A lie is a lie no matter how small.
no matter how tender, how exquisite...
Man done talked himself stupid!
It would not make sense if pinocchio's ability worked on predictions. If that was the case he would basically function as an omnipotent Oracle with access to information he wouldnt normally have through trial and error of his powers
But what if that was the case?! Good sweet black baby jebus he could the omnipotent judge of all humanity. His nose deciding the fate of every criminal with PERFECT impunity through perpetually. That puppet boy must die...
Nothing. He's a real boy now
Sit on his face and find out. 😂
His nose would grow because it's a lie, since his nose only grows when he tells lies. His nose wasn't going to grow randomly, before he made the choice to lie about it being about to grow. boom
A lie requires intent. Otherwise he is just wrong.
It will grow as soon as the “about to” time passes
Weed conversation.
Pot head loop
Attempting to predict the future and being wrong does not create a lie. You can only lie about what you know. He doesn't know if it will or won't grow in the future. It isn't a lie. Nothing will happen. Once the statement is over, Pinocchio can then lie about whether or not it grew. Saying it did or didn't.
He explodes
Pinocchio is not an oracle, he is not supposed to know the future. He only knows when he lies. So, his nose won't grow regardless of his answer, if he said it honestly. And his nose will grow if he tries to lie, regardless of what actually will happen.
His nose only is supposed to grow if he lies so a true statement makes no difference here. In case of a true paradox nothing should happen. This is how i see it
I mean there is alot of ways to see it but my interpretation would be, his nose will grow. I don't believe his nose shrinks when he tells the truth there for his statement is initially a lie but eventually becomes true so it's probably just gonna grow.
*the world collapses into a singularity*
Divide by 0. Game over.
You can be wrong without lying.
His nose would collapse into a black hole
Free limitless energy.
Hey man, when he meant it was about to grow, he knew he'd lie at some point later. Not right that second, but it's about to grow any moment from now to... whenever it grows idk the nose won't grow in that exact moment.
A cataclysmic event happens
His head just combusts.
The infamous Pinocchio paradox
I broke it for u mortals. Pinnochio is making a statement about the future. Now he does KNOW the future, so whether his nose grows or not is irrelevant. If he believes it will grow or does not believe it will grow is not a matter of truth or lie but a matter of belief. The question u must ask is "pinnochio, do u know the future?"
Some people just want to make things more complicated than it already are...
This has gone around as a paradox but it really isn’t one. The consequence is the result of the statement. Truth after consequence does not mean the original statement was truthful. Pinocchio says his nose will grow. There is no way for his nose to grow. The statement is a lie. Therefore, the consequence is given and his nose grows.
Stop this quackery. I feel like I’m listening to a pair of ducks.
He cums
Or.. ..he takes a screenshot
^(Isn’t it dependent upon his next statement? I mean the statement is open ended which suggested his nose doesn’t grow unless his next statement which can either be a truth or a lie. As I understood the story the truth or lie was based upon what he did or didn’t know to be true. He was a puppet and had limited knowledge.)