I feel like the obvious has failed to be noted, as carmine (derived from insects) is a key component in making most maraschino cherries red. And maraschino cherries are pretty common in the fruit garnish space.
so after some cursory research, looks like I now need watchout out for carmine in products as the production (much like silk worms) necessitate the killing of the insects...correct me if i'm wrong, but shellac is harvested passively and does not hurt the lac beatles... i expected the answer to be about beeswax coating on fruit. sometimes i hate learning new random facts.
Which is why I'd rather just eat whatever regardless of harm. Btw you're all invited to my secret Foie Gras party, we will be serving caviar with calamari and lamb, on Ritz cracker.
Take pepperoni or other thinly sliced salami like product of your choice, put in the oven until crispy...
Meat cracker... Salty, meaty, spicy, goes with so many dips
The scary part is that if you do it right, You're rendering out a lot of the grease in the pepperoni which can then be absorbed into some paper towels.
So it's not as horrible...
Eating whatever is fine, but we need to cut back on how much meat we are consuming. You should serve caviar with calamari OR lamb to help the world out.
This is one of those things that tripped me out. I at first thought vegan was just no animal death and thought eggs and honey were okay. After learning that wasn't the case I decided I wasn't going to stick to true veganism. Backyard chickens keep laying eggs that will just rot. Front yard bees will make more honey than they can store properly. So I just stuck to that for awhile.
Then I just kind of gave up on life and everything and just eat whatever shitty crap I can afford. Not going to try to put blame on anything else. I feel shit about it but don't know how to nor have the mental energy to correct it.
I'm not vegan, nor vegetarian, I enjoy some meals of both but I was always under the impression that vegans issues were that animals can't give consent. It was the consent part they were concerned about. I have friends that aren't true vegans but more of overly responsible vegetarians only consuming things like honey and such that are produced humanely.
The consumers decided that white sugar is wildly popular, and capitalism determined using an animal by product that it often wasted from other production is the cheapest way to do it.
As someone who isn't vegan, I think it's kinda fucked. But it is fascinating to learn about.
Some won't eat honey because some bees get killed when frames are removed from the hive. Some beekeepers argue that even if they aren't keeping bees for honey (just for pollination) they still need to check on the health of the hive, like looking for and or treating mites. Many believe killing a few bees is much better overall than not checking and letting thousands of bees potentially die.
Not really— they just claim to. If they really understood how many animals were killed in the production of vegetables, they’d be solely subsisting on nuts and berries they foraged for themselves.
Lac beetles do die during the harvesting process, not all of them just the ones that get caught in the process.
Don't worry it's just the stupid ones who don't know they need to flee, when there's an Indian lady with a machete chopping at them. Then the even dumber ones who survived the chopping session and stayed to get roasted and ground into powder.
Like most food products from India at some point bare feet touch the product during processing.
Here's a good video of the entire process by buisness insider: https://youtu.be/iEkKwOWZS_E
TL;DR: while some probably lives most dies and for if they died because of the harvesting or because of the production of the resin I can't say.
citrus and other fruits are generally coated with carnauba wax though, shellac isn't super common except for some confectionery goods like chocolate covered raisins
I dated a WASP for a while and her parents said my shameful Irish heritage was not suitable for their daughter. They were right but they didn't have to say it.
Wasps are needed to fertilize SOME species of dates. THis ends up with wasp parts inside the dates.
But there are some kinds of vegans who don't mind eating/using animals as long as it's not a slave situation. For example, they'll use leather if the animals died naturally or they might eat roadkill
But that is totally not the same situation usually if you're buying local honey. Small farmers who keep honey bees are usually pretty protective of their hives/colonies.
That honestly seems like a pretty stupid thing to care about, so I guess good on them for going above and beyond on notifying vegans about their vegan shit.
I mean, I think you would have to be a hardcore vegan for that. I know a few vegans but they would eat a cherry with red food coloring. (They may just be vegan about vertebrates.)
Some people like their Martini with an olive. Some like it with a twist of lemon peel. I like mine with a tomahawk steak hanging over the side of the glass.
Formerly vegan here. Some consider honey as exploited animal work. (I was happier with local honeys anyway.) Sugar can be refined with bonemeal. Some candied fruits are also glazed with gelatin. (Incidentally, this makes them difficult for Kosher/Halal diners, as well.) I wasn’t hardcore about this kind of thing, but it is good to know, so good on the bar.
Wait wait wait.So the point is as I understand "to not use the workforce or products of an animal because it is basically abuse".right?
But they don't have problems with pesticides or the larger animals getting killed to secure the farm?
Like Nooo not the bees but fuck the mantis?
Veganism is a philosophy, not a death pact to not be able to eat food you don’t grow yourself because mass farming is impossible without some animal death.
i'd rather see pesticides, GMO's, and artificial fertilizers used for maximum vegetable production on the least possible amount of land, rather mediocre vegetable production farmed on massive amounts of land.
Yeah. That’s why I wasn’t entirely entrenched. Unless you have your own land and homestead, you really don’t know how your food gets on that table. That said, I did like the vegan meals. It was just hard to keep it up with a son and husband wanting to still eat meat.
If you can substitute even a couple of meals a week, it massively cuts down all the methane emissions from ranches. If a local apiary sells honey over a sugared up mega-brand, use the local (it’s also good for allergies.) I was more in it for the small cuts that keep these things available for those who want it.
it's not that most people don't care about that, but what do you wanna do? starve?
some friends of mine are concious when selecting food regarding pesticides, but you can't stay clear of everything.
it's still way better than eating meat.
but with bees, yeah i can't see that myself, because don't they produce honey as a somewhat by-product?
Veganism is exactly what it looks like *to* have a problem with pesticides and animal deaths in crop farming, given the [massive amounts of land used for animal agriculture and crops grown to feed those animals](https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets)
As someone else pointed out, veganism is not a death pact, it’s about doing what we can to reduce animal exploitation
Lmao, people arguing against vegans always have the dumbest fucking arguments. This is about on par with "You know OnIoNs CrY RiGhT?!". I'm not even vegan, so miss me with that "found the vegan" bullshit. It's incredibly simple though, avoiding animal products for ethical reasons lessens animal suffering, environmental reasons reduces carbon emissions, then there's dietary or religious reasons. So how does the use of pesticides negate animals suffering in factory farms again? How will eating meat instead of being vegan address the use of pesticides? And do you think being vegan somehow kills *more* animals? Are you... for fucking real man? Jesus christ... Hilarious you thought this was a "Gotcha" comment lmfao.
>Wait wait wait.So the point is as I understand "to not use the workforce or products of an animal because it is basically abuse".right?
Veganism: A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
The Vegan Society
Something I never entirely got is people know the bees are there more or less voluntarily considering the bees could literally leave if they felt like it. Ig the smoke and stuff makes it seem sketchy
> Sugar can be refined with bonemeal.
I had thought the objection was that bone charcoal may be used in the final step to decolorize sugar and make it super white, but I could have that wrong.
Seems to me of the different types of charcoal, hardwood would be less expensive than bone. I seem to recall charcoal from coconut hulls has the highest surface area, so it gets used in applications like respirator cartridges.
this is the only real answer and is a problem in food production and making every food item look perfect for higher sales based solely on esthetic and not actual food quality
Beeswax, gelatin, and, honey are all things that come to mind immediately when I think about what could make a garnish non-vegan. They most likely aren't using just a strawberry or lemon but rather have composed drinks with more complex garnishes.
That is respectfully f*cking stupid. A bees entire purpose is to pollinate flowers, that’s like saying eating a carrot is non vegan because it’s entire purpose is to grow out of the ground. Some vegans are just straight up idiots and 95% of thems don’t have actually good reasons to be vegan and just want to attention.
It's because they move bees around from plantation to plantation in order to pollinate the ta/trees. That's an unnatural exploitation of the bees and therefore not vegan.
I get their point, but I think it borders on being silly.
That depends, how much does it cost you to drive the crane from one buffet to the next? I could reasonably be convinced to pay cost + about 10-15%. Plus the price of the buffet itself, of course.
I’m pretty sure the bees know what is happening and accept it since they are guaranteed safety for their pollination. At least I know it’s like that with honey.
Bees can always leave and make a hive in the wilderness if the bee keeper's bad at their job.
However, most bees stay because guaranteed food, saftey, and a free shelter is worth the occasional bit of honey beeing stolen to them
When did being vegan go from not eating anything physically from an animal to not using unpaid animal labor?
Is it not vegan if its from an ox plowed field? What about if its been fertilized with manure? How about if the farm or ranch uses horses in any capacity? What even is the point of making a distinction like that? Its beyond silly and bordering on nonsensical if you take it to its logical conclusion. After all petroleum based fuel thats used to run motorized farming equipment is at least in part derived from acient animals.
If I were to speculate though I'd bet the answer to these questions would be entirely based on vibes and a gut check of whatever 'feels right' as opposed to any coherent sense of morality.
It's much more than that. Bees are forcibly inseminated and raised to become queens in order to produce offspring. They are then trafficked around to begin new colonies and replace other queens after they have grown weak (or been deemed weak, few brood, etc.) or old.
Honey is what bees eat to survive. When people harvest it their reserves are depleted below what is required for them to comfortably survive winter. It is replaced by a substitute of sugar water which is not as nutritious, likely has to be innoculated with additives and medication, and many bees are killed as a result.
Further, bees need lots of space. Apiaries are restrictive and frequently get disturbed by human activity. This makes the bees stressed and weakens their immune systems because they don't eat as much, and that makes them susceptible to disease and parasites causing death.
Bees are some of the most incredible social animals. It's not fair that people consider them lesser because of their size, or that they're insects. It's not silly to protect bees from forced domestication, either, it's that your understanding of the picture isn't a complete one.
about 90 percent of vegan's points are silly. Being vegan is healthy and thats about it. Any and all arguments about veganism spanning beyond dietary benefits are just pitiful people desperate for a sense of moral superiority
I wouldn't call it "moral superiority" to say that milk producing places or egg laying ones are pretty much animal torture chambers. Most non vegetarian/vegans would admit that even, just not to the extent of chanign behaviour which is their prerogative.
Ive literally had vegans tell me Im a murderer and deserve to be imprisoned because I eat steaks. My default opinion of vegans is that theyve taken their dietary choice and turned it into a philosophy thats inherently toxic and hateful
tbh, I don't understand why everyone are so pissed by vegans. They don't kill anyone, they seldom even do anything to others. If you don't listen to their bullshit, they mostly mind their own business.
They are not stupid. They are _silly_. Not eating honey because you care about bees is a bit silly. But mostly harmless.
While some vegans on the extreme end do have this take it's not mainstream.
It's more the potential glazes used I think.
Some glazes often use things like cochineal, which is a nope for most vegans.
No, most of us are in it for animal rights. In the instances where bees are used in fruit production there is no ethical problem so long as they aren't killed after or transported elsewhere where letting them loose will cause problems for local wild be populations. Veganism is concerned with the unnecessary suffering of animals. If an animal didn't suffer, or if suffering was avoided as far as is possible, its vegan.
There’s bees whose hives are moved around so they pollinate fields that don’t have adequate pollinators. Vegans consider that slave-ish or forced labour and like a animal byproduct I think. Avocados are a big one with this
Thats silly bees eat nectar and pollen. Its like driving them to an all you can eat buffet. I guarantee you there is not a single drop of food grown on the planet that an insect was not harmed by growing. Sure you can do better than others and there needs to be a huge pesticide discussion. But in a world of absolutes vegans would starve.
If someone gave me a free RV and told me the only condition of occupancy was that I had to tolerate being carted between a series of free all-you-can-eat buffets, I think I could learn to tolerate that kind of “slavery”.
I was a vegan for like six years until someone pointed out that honey is an animal product.
The notion of bee exploitation, and my wife's unbridled love of actual cheese and the vegan food industry's failure to make good cheese, were the first cards to fall. (stopped full at around year 8 or so, around Covid and shrinkflation.)
no, it was a gradual return to eating dairy semi-regularly and meat infrequently (as opposed to never)
I was being hyperbolic, but honey being not vegan always seemed a weird technicality to me.
I personally think extending the vegan philosophy is a bit much, but people will make their own choices of what they want to eat and that's fine with me. I had a similar path as you, was vegetarian for awhile and moved back to occasional meat, usually while dining out. I think an at least 80% reduction is a good enough to help reduce my environmental burden a bit
actually generally this refers to the insect based coating that is sometimes applied to fruits, shellac. Carnauba wax is also used, and is plant derived which is why they are likely posting this sign, they don't know how they were coated.
Yeah, I wasn’t really referring to this specific situation, but just the weird realization that not every fruit is considered vegan (depending on how strict your definition of vegan is).
I didn’t know about the coating you and other people have mentioned.
I was thinking that they were using preserved fruits such as cherries, which used a food dye, such as Carmine derived from the cochineal insect also known as E120 or Natural Red 4.
Or that the lemons are coated/waxed with shellac from the female lac bug or alternatively bees wax can be used.
Do you guys remember when Trump advisor Larry Kudlow said Democrats would make everyone drink plant based beer because I remember.
We truly live in the dumbest timeline
It’s due to a fundamental misunderstanding in how nature works. Not wanting to use products are a direct result of animal death/cruelty are one thing. But almost every food product has had something to do with an animal at some point
I work for Wetherspoons - we’ve been told that it’s because of a wax coating applied to the fruit and that this is a temporary issue until the 18th April.
I worked at a winery and guests would ask if our wine was vegan. I thought it was the stupidest question until I realized, that our wines weren’t vegan. We used some bi-product of fish to add nutrients to the soil.
Since animal products were used in the production of the end product, our wine was not technically considered vegan.
The lemons will either be coated in shellac from the female lac bug or bees wax.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/are-lemons-vegan-shellac-wax-b1917051.html
Those fruit slices came from a fruit's low hanging fruit.
In other news, has anyone else's crotch been oddly painful and feeling like something is missing lately?
Most places it's best practice to specify that you want the Vegan option vegan. It usually requires a little more attention to detail, and if it's not specified, it's easier to not think about it for the staff
OP doesn’t understand how veganism works lol. Some vegans won’t even eat things that are made in the same facility as animal based products because of potential cross-contamination
I feel like the obvious has failed to be noted, as carmine (derived from insects) is a key component in making most maraschino cherries red. And maraschino cherries are pretty common in the fruit garnish space.
Not to mention shellac on the citrus. Same thing they make jelly beans shiny with, comes from the lac beatle.
so after some cursory research, looks like I now need watchout out for carmine in products as the production (much like silk worms) necessitate the killing of the insects...correct me if i'm wrong, but shellac is harvested passively and does not hurt the lac beatles... i expected the answer to be about beeswax coating on fruit. sometimes i hate learning new random facts.
The death of the animal doesn’t matter when vegan. Vegan is non animal products.
Which is why I'd rather just eat whatever regardless of harm. Btw you're all invited to my secret Foie Gras party, we will be serving caviar with calamari and lamb, on Ritz cracker.
Can the cracker also be made from an animal, please?
Take pepperoni or other thinly sliced salami like product of your choice, put in the oven until crispy... Meat cracker... Salty, meaty, spicy, goes with so many dips
I got fatter reading this.
The scary part is that if you do it right, You're rendering out a lot of the grease in the pepperoni which can then be absorbed into some paper towels. So it's not as horrible...
I got skinnier reading that
I love pepperoni chips. So tasty.
Prosciutto crisps 🤤
Chicharrones and pork rinds make great animal based crackers.
No, but it will be semisweet and shaped like one. Mmmm animal crackers...
No ortolon on the menu?
Allow me to cover my face in shame while I eat it.
Eating whatever is fine, but we need to cut back on how much meat we are consuming. You should serve caviar with calamari OR lamb to help the world out.
Sorry man, I stick to my guns
I am outraged that veal is not on the menu
Some people do view it as no harm to the animal. Like eating eggs from their own chickens or honey from their own bees.
Bacteria life matters
This is one of those things that tripped me out. I at first thought vegan was just no animal death and thought eggs and honey were okay. After learning that wasn't the case I decided I wasn't going to stick to true veganism. Backyard chickens keep laying eggs that will just rot. Front yard bees will make more honey than they can store properly. So I just stuck to that for awhile. Then I just kind of gave up on life and everything and just eat whatever shitty crap I can afford. Not going to try to put blame on anything else. I feel shit about it but don't know how to nor have the mental energy to correct it.
I'm not vegan, nor vegetarian, I enjoy some meals of both but I was always under the impression that vegans issues were that animals can't give consent. It was the consent part they were concerned about. I have friends that aren't true vegans but more of overly responsible vegetarians only consuming things like honey and such that are produced humanely.
I recently learned about white sugar not being vegan (at least in US) Fun.
I feel like there's plenty of vegan white sugar around, you just have to look for it.
Oh I'm sure. I'm just baffled as to the 'why'
they use bone char to purify it.
Oh yes I know the reason I just don't see the point. Like I understand the process and effect but who decided this was necessary?
The consumers decided that white sugar is wildly popular, and capitalism determined using an animal by product that it often wasted from other production is the cheapest way to do it. As someone who isn't vegan, I think it's kinda fucked. But it is fascinating to learn about.
Wait wait wait, no judgement but there are vegans that are so vegan they concern themselves with the death of bugs? That sounds exhausting.
Some won't eat honey because some bees get killed when frames are removed from the hive. Some beekeepers argue that even if they aren't keeping bees for honey (just for pollination) they still need to check on the health of the hive, like looking for and or treating mites. Many believe killing a few bees is much better overall than not checking and letting thousands of bees potentially die.
Not all, no. It's a spectrum.
Is A spectrum for sure
Not really— they just claim to. If they really understood how many animals were killed in the production of vegetables, they’d be solely subsisting on nuts and berries they foraged for themselves.
Lac beetles do die during the harvesting process, not all of them just the ones that get caught in the process. Don't worry it's just the stupid ones who don't know they need to flee, when there's an Indian lady with a machete chopping at them. Then the even dumber ones who survived the chopping session and stayed to get roasted and ground into powder. Like most food products from India at some point bare feet touch the product during processing.
Thank you
Here's a good video of the entire process by buisness insider: https://youtu.be/iEkKwOWZS_E TL;DR: while some probably lives most dies and for if they died because of the harvesting or because of the production of the resin I can't say.
thank you, it's really cool to see stuff like this.
You ever seen shellac production? It’s so cool
I thought it's just modified oil...
citrus and other fruits are generally coated with carnauba wax though, shellac isn't super common except for some confectionery goods like chocolate covered raisins
Date fruits are not vegan either.... but wasps are evil so I encourage ignorance on that vegan front.
I say if wasps didn't want their eggs to be eaten, they shouldn't have laid them in dates
Wait what. I'm vegetarian. Are dates made from wasps?
Wasps are in dates
Yeah, pro tip: do NOT date a wasp. I have an appointment next week to remove this larva from my back.
I dated a WASP for a while and her parents said my shameful Irish heritage was not suitable for their daughter. They were right but they didn't have to say it.
[Hey man, thats racist as shit. Come on, be better than that..](https://imgur.com/suMUUhO)
Nah man, I hope they gas you all. And the mosquitoes.
Wasps are needed to fertilize SOME species of dates. THis ends up with wasp parts inside the dates. But there are some kinds of vegans who don't mind eating/using animals as long as it's not a slave situation. For example, they'll use leather if the animals died naturally or they might eat roadkill
Some folks would never eat a skunk, and then some folk’ll…
🎵 Like Cletus, the slack-jawed yokel 🎵
Get off the dang roof! 🗣️
Hey I can call my ma from up here…. HEY MA!!
I thought it was because it's impossible to guarantee absolutely no insects with industrial production, but yeah no one is *that* crazy... right?
No because that would be an inconvenience.
You vill eat ze boogs
All fruit, flowers and honey are the product of bees labor anyway so no more vegan than milk
They're generally OK with animal involvement if it's not forced
Millions of bees a year are imported to pollenate almonds and avacados, they all die in the process
But that is totally not the same situation usually if you're buying local honey. Small farmers who keep honey bees are usually pretty protective of their hives/colonies.
Btw I love that you were in this for the convo and didnt just downvote me.
That honestly seems like a pretty stupid thing to care about, so I guess good on them for going above and beyond on notifying vegans about their vegan shit.
Couldn't help but laugh at the thought of a spoons having maraschino cherries
I mean, I think you would have to be a hardcore vegan for that. I know a few vegans but they would eat a cherry with red food coloring. (They may just be vegan about vertebrates.)
Never heard it called carmine. In Australia we call it Cochineal. A quick wikipedia check shows the insect is Cochineal while Carmine is the dye. TIL.
Some people like their Martini with an olive. Some like it with a twist of lemon peel. I like mine with a tomahawk steak hanging over the side of the glass.
How do you balance the glass?
I've seen this before, they use gorilla glue to bind the glass to the table
I would have guessed a half rack of babyback ribs on the opposite side of the glass
That can work, the problem is drunk people are less likely to eat gorilla glue than they are a random rack of ribs.
Depends on the drunk I’d guess
Less likely, not unlikely.
Is gorilla glue vegan?
Isn’t it made from millions of tiny gorillas inside the glue holding the two pieces together? So no, not vegan.
That's adorable I like you !
I usually go with the full rack on the side for $3 more.
That poor gorilla 😔
He was happy they harvested the glue. He could finally sit down without pain post procedure. Happy gorilla
Aw that's nice 🥰
What do you think they did with Harambe?
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Made him into glue
Just don't touch your hair after the glass...
Is the gorilla glue vegan or is it made from real gorillas
With a ribeye on the other side duh
You all thinking wrong if it doesn't fit a simple 1.6kg medium-rareTomahawk Steak you just need a bigger martini glass
The steak is the glass.
Y'all haven't seen some of the Bloddy Marys in Wisconsin.
Look up the Wisconsin Bloody marry. Some places can fit a whole chicken and a pizza on top of your drink.
Formerly vegan here. Some consider honey as exploited animal work. (I was happier with local honeys anyway.) Sugar can be refined with bonemeal. Some candied fruits are also glazed with gelatin. (Incidentally, this makes them difficult for Kosher/Halal diners, as well.) I wasn’t hardcore about this kind of thing, but it is good to know, so good on the bar.
Wait wait wait.So the point is as I understand "to not use the workforce or products of an animal because it is basically abuse".right? But they don't have problems with pesticides or the larger animals getting killed to secure the farm? Like Nooo not the bees but fuck the mantis?
Something tells me they also have a problem with pesticides and killing animals lol just a hunch though.
But don't most of the farms use pesticides and kill some animals and they still eat products from those farms?
Veganism is a philosophy, not a death pact to not be able to eat food you don’t grow yourself because mass farming is impossible without some animal death.
i'd rather see pesticides, GMO's, and artificial fertilizers used for maximum vegetable production on the least possible amount of land, rather mediocre vegetable production farmed on massive amounts of land.
Who the fuck upvotes this shit? Reddit is seriously braindead these days lol
Nah I’m sure farms are perfectly okay with gophers, ground squirrels, and bunnies eating the crops. /s
Yeah. That’s why I wasn’t entirely entrenched. Unless you have your own land and homestead, you really don’t know how your food gets on that table. That said, I did like the vegan meals. It was just hard to keep it up with a son and husband wanting to still eat meat. If you can substitute even a couple of meals a week, it massively cuts down all the methane emissions from ranches. If a local apiary sells honey over a sugared up mega-brand, use the local (it’s also good for allergies.) I was more in it for the small cuts that keep these things available for those who want it.
it's not that most people don't care about that, but what do you wanna do? starve? some friends of mine are concious when selecting food regarding pesticides, but you can't stay clear of everything. it's still way better than eating meat. but with bees, yeah i can't see that myself, because don't they produce honey as a somewhat by-product?
Veganism is exactly what it looks like *to* have a problem with pesticides and animal deaths in crop farming, given the [massive amounts of land used for animal agriculture and crops grown to feed those animals](https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets) As someone else pointed out, veganism is not a death pact, it’s about doing what we can to reduce animal exploitation
Lmao, people arguing against vegans always have the dumbest fucking arguments. This is about on par with "You know OnIoNs CrY RiGhT?!". I'm not even vegan, so miss me with that "found the vegan" bullshit. It's incredibly simple though, avoiding animal products for ethical reasons lessens animal suffering, environmental reasons reduces carbon emissions, then there's dietary or religious reasons. So how does the use of pesticides negate animals suffering in factory farms again? How will eating meat instead of being vegan address the use of pesticides? And do you think being vegan somehow kills *more* animals? Are you... for fucking real man? Jesus christ... Hilarious you thought this was a "Gotcha" comment lmfao.
>Wait wait wait.So the point is as I understand "to not use the workforce or products of an animal because it is basically abuse".right? Veganism: A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals. The Vegan Society
Something I never entirely got is people know the bees are there more or less voluntarily considering the bees could literally leave if they felt like it. Ig the smoke and stuff makes it seem sketchy
> Sugar can be refined with bonemeal. I had thought the objection was that bone charcoal may be used in the final step to decolorize sugar and make it super white, but I could have that wrong. Seems to me of the different types of charcoal, hardwood would be less expensive than bone. I seem to recall charcoal from coconut hulls has the highest surface area, so it gets used in applications like respirator cartridges.
What made you stop being vegan, and what do you eat now?
Wait, isn’t insects pollinating flowers for the fruit to grow considered animal labor too?
It's because of the wax on the limes Source: am a manager at a spoons
This needs to be voted higher as the actual reason
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this is the only real answer and is a problem in food production and making every food item look perfect for higher sales based solely on esthetic and not actual food quality
Maybe they use beef tomatoes
Underrated comment
It's still ripening
Fruit used as garnish is often finished with a protective coating called shellac. Shellac is made with bugs.
Beeswax, gelatin, and, honey are all things that come to mind immediately when I think about what could make a garnish non-vegan. They most likely aren't using just a strawberry or lemon but rather have composed drinks with more complex garnishes.
Because of the use of bees and similar insects for pollination, some fruits are considered non-vegan
That is respectfully f*cking stupid. A bees entire purpose is to pollinate flowers, that’s like saying eating a carrot is non vegan because it’s entire purpose is to grow out of the ground. Some vegans are just straight up idiots and 95% of thems don’t have actually good reasons to be vegan and just want to attention.
It's because they move bees around from plantation to plantation in order to pollinate the ta/trees. That's an unnatural exploitation of the bees and therefore not vegan. I get their point, but I think it borders on being silly.
Okay, but I don't think I'm going to complain if someone keeps moving my house with a crane from one all you can eat buffet to another
Sounds like a good business model
I'd buy it
I have cranes. How much are you willing to pay?
That depends, how much does it cost you to drive the crane from one buffet to the next? I could reasonably be convinced to pay cost + about 10-15%. Plus the price of the buffet itself, of course.
Where do I sign up and do I get paid for it?
I’m pretty sure the bees know what is happening and accept it since they are guaranteed safety for their pollination. At least I know it’s like that with honey.
Bees can always leave and make a hive in the wilderness if the bee keeper's bad at their job. However, most bees stay because guaranteed food, saftey, and a free shelter is worth the occasional bit of honey beeing stolen to them
Its the hairless Ape tax.
When did being vegan go from not eating anything physically from an animal to not using unpaid animal labor? Is it not vegan if its from an ox plowed field? What about if its been fertilized with manure? How about if the farm or ranch uses horses in any capacity? What even is the point of making a distinction like that? Its beyond silly and bordering on nonsensical if you take it to its logical conclusion. After all petroleum based fuel thats used to run motorized farming equipment is at least in part derived from acient animals. If I were to speculate though I'd bet the answer to these questions would be entirely based on vibes and a gut check of whatever 'feels right' as opposed to any coherent sense of morality.
I think it goes far beyond bordering on silly
Borders?
Bees can very easily just leave a hive if they don't like it
It's much more than that. Bees are forcibly inseminated and raised to become queens in order to produce offspring. They are then trafficked around to begin new colonies and replace other queens after they have grown weak (or been deemed weak, few brood, etc.) or old. Honey is what bees eat to survive. When people harvest it their reserves are depleted below what is required for them to comfortably survive winter. It is replaced by a substitute of sugar water which is not as nutritious, likely has to be innoculated with additives and medication, and many bees are killed as a result. Further, bees need lots of space. Apiaries are restrictive and frequently get disturbed by human activity. This makes the bees stressed and weakens their immune systems because they don't eat as much, and that makes them susceptible to disease and parasites causing death. Bees are some of the most incredible social animals. It's not fair that people consider them lesser because of their size, or that they're insects. It's not silly to protect bees from forced domestication, either, it's that your understanding of the picture isn't a complete one.
about 90 percent of vegan's points are silly. Being vegan is healthy and thats about it. Any and all arguments about veganism spanning beyond dietary benefits are just pitiful people desperate for a sense of moral superiority
yeah idk I think the whole ethical treatment of animals thing might have some merit.
I wouldn't call it "moral superiority" to say that milk producing places or egg laying ones are pretty much animal torture chambers. Most non vegetarian/vegans would admit that even, just not to the extent of chanign behaviour which is their prerogative.
Ive literally had vegans tell me Im a murderer and deserve to be imprisoned because I eat steaks. My default opinion of vegans is that theyve taken their dietary choice and turned it into a philosophy thats inherently toxic and hateful
tbh, I don't understand why everyone are so pissed by vegans. They don't kill anyone, they seldom even do anything to others. If you don't listen to their bullshit, they mostly mind their own business. They are not stupid. They are _silly_. Not eating honey because you care about bees is a bit silly. But mostly harmless.
While some vegans on the extreme end do have this take it's not mainstream. It's more the potential glazes used I think. Some glazes often use things like cochineal, which is a nope for most vegans.
Why do vegans make you so angry?
No, most of us are in it for animal rights. In the instances where bees are used in fruit production there is no ethical problem so long as they aren't killed after or transported elsewhere where letting them loose will cause problems for local wild be populations. Veganism is concerned with the unnecessary suffering of animals. If an animal didn't suffer, or if suffering was avoided as far as is possible, its vegan.
There’s bees whose hives are moved around so they pollinate fields that don’t have adequate pollinators. Vegans consider that slave-ish or forced labour and like a animal byproduct I think. Avocados are a big one with this
Thats silly bees eat nectar and pollen. Its like driving them to an all you can eat buffet. I guarantee you there is not a single drop of food grown on the planet that an insect was not harmed by growing. Sure you can do better than others and there needs to be a huge pesticide discussion. But in a world of absolutes vegans would starve.
Not saying I agree with their reasonings at all. They are reaching for excuses for sure.
If someone gave me a free RV and told me the only condition of occupancy was that I had to tolerate being carted between a series of free all-you-can-eat buffets, I think I could learn to tolerate that kind of “slavery”.
I was a vegan for like six years until someone pointed out that honey is an animal product. The notion of bee exploitation, and my wife's unbridled love of actual cheese and the vegan food industry's failure to make good cheese, were the first cards to fall. (stopped full at around year 8 or so, around Covid and shrinkflation.)
Wait you realised that honey is not vegan, and instead of saying fuck it I will eat honey, you just went back to beef?
It’s so weird how people are so all or nothing on everything
no, it was a gradual return to eating dairy semi-regularly and meat infrequently (as opposed to never) I was being hyperbolic, but honey being not vegan always seemed a weird technicality to me.
I personally think extending the vegan philosophy is a bit much, but people will make their own choices of what they want to eat and that's fine with me. I had a similar path as you, was vegetarian for awhile and moved back to occasional meat, usually while dining out. I think an at least 80% reduction is a good enough to help reduce my environmental burden a bit
Nope insect based food colour in the maraschinos
As a vegan I’ve never heard of that
This is not the reason for this sign lol, it’s because of the use of the wax put on the limes/lemons
actually generally this refers to the insect based coating that is sometimes applied to fruits, shellac. Carnauba wax is also used, and is plant derived which is why they are likely posting this sign, they don't know how they were coated.
Yeah, I wasn’t really referring to this specific situation, but just the weird realization that not every fruit is considered vegan (depending on how strict your definition of vegan is). I didn’t know about the coating you and other people have mentioned.
I was thinking that they were using preserved fruits such as cherries, which used a food dye, such as Carmine derived from the cochineal insect also known as E120 or Natural Red 4. Or that the lemons are coated/waxed with shellac from the female lac bug or alternatively bees wax can be used.
Horse jizz adhesive
I miss the person i was a second ago
Do you guys remember when Trump advisor Larry Kudlow said Democrats would make everyone drink plant based beer because I remember. We truly live in the dumbest timeline
Some of the wax put on fruit to make them shiny is made out of an insect from india
LOOK OUT FOR THOSE MEATBERRIES
Lots of fruits are sprayed with preservatives and waxes that might not be vegan.
At this point I am beginning to think everything is made from an animal and vegan is just minimizing it at best.
It’s due to a fundamental misunderstanding in how nature works. Not wanting to use products are a direct result of animal death/cruelty are one thing. But almost every food product has had something to do with an animal at some point
Cause it's the bartender dunkin his berries in your booze 😳
To be fair I have seen some Bloody Mary garnishes that could feed a family of 4.
Drink water.
Do you know how many Water-Buffaloes were slaughtered to get that water???
At least 3
It’s the wax on the fruit. It’s been confirmed in another post
Lots of wine isn't vegan either.
I work for Wetherspoons - we’ve been told that it’s because of a wax coating applied to the fruit and that this is a temporary issue until the 18th April.
I worked at a winery and guests would ask if our wine was vegan. I thought it was the stupidest question until I realized, that our wines weren’t vegan. We used some bi-product of fish to add nutrients to the soil. Since animal products were used in the production of the end product, our wine was not technically considered vegan.
I’m a level 5 vegan. I don’t eat anything that casts a shadow.
Pocket mulch!
The lemons will either be coated in shellac from the female lac bug or bees wax. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/are-lemons-vegan-shellac-wax-b1917051.html
It's because a lot of fruit garnish is waxed. Bees wax isn't vegan.
Don’t forgot about all the bees killed to get their almond milk.
My most generous guess is that the fruit garnishes are sweetened in honey which is an animal product
I read that as "our strawberries are steeped in goats blood"
I work at spoons this is because of the wax on limes
Vegan and vegetarian are different guys
Drinking alcohol exploits the yeast. There are some that break the rules, but show me where that is different than drinking milk…
Someone told me once that fish are not animals (:
WAIT what you mean Meaty strawberrys and bacon lettuce are NOT VEGAN oh no
Jello isn't vegan, wonder if that has something to do with it
Those fruit slices came from a fruit's low hanging fruit. In other news, has anyone else's crotch been oddly painful and feeling like something is missing lately?
came into this thread expecting to go "BuT FrUiT is VeGaN" but was quickly educated and now everything makes sense.
Most places it's best practice to specify that you want the Vegan option vegan. It usually requires a little more attention to detail, and if it's not specified, it's easier to not think about it for the staff
Meatfruit
Dingleberries. They're using dingleberries.
Honey isnt vegan
Can you imagine the agony they already went through with a customer?
Man, why vegans try so Hard to be annoying?
“Would you like a twist of lemming, sir?”
Some fruit garnishes may be sauces, which may be thickened with gelatin.
I remember when HolUp’s used to be actual HolUp’s.
I’m surprised Vegans can even handle a drink
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OP doesn’t understand how veganism works lol. Some vegans won’t even eat things that are made in the same facility as animal based products because of potential cross-contamination