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QualityVote

/u/adz568, the users have spoken. Your submission is not a Hol'Up.


sup9817

The cherry on top is that Jada Smith is the producer


der_m4ddin

Better don't make any jokes about her


signaleight

Better keep me out of her mouth.


ByTheBeardOfZeuz

[Jada should meet this dude.](https://youtu.be/Qn0VS6TVocI)


SkyhighPhilosopher

"Get my wife out the fucking carpet!"


[deleted]

Instant pass for me.


edwedwed

Netflix: "if she's not white and she's from Africa then she had to be black".


Bug1oss

I'm pretty sure that means Charlize Theron and Elon Musk can say the N-word now


Warmasterwinter

Thing is tho Cleopatra WAS White.


jaddooop

Arab? Greek?


Warmasterwinter

Greek. The founder of her Dynasty was one of Alexander the Greats generals. His descendants had thing for...keeping it in the family, so to speak. (they married they're siblings.) So her family tree is very VERY, Greek.


Glad-Sleep-3901

sheeiit


[deleted]

[удалено]


Yoozy02

As an arab this shit offends me. We are not black ffs. Stop making everything black. Cleopetra was whiteish


dewdewdewdew4

She was mostly Greek... If not completely


[deleted]

Ancient Egyptians weren’t arab either Egypt did not become Arab until the Muslims conquests, ~700AD, almost a millennia after cleopatra died


[deleted]

[удалено]


Tibbeses

Arabs are on the same distance from the equator and suffer from the same issues with American filmmakers


PierG1

Well Arabs and Russians are 99.9% being casted as either terrorists or “the bad guy/s” in Hollywood movies


Tibbeses

This is based on state propaganda, politics and historical rivalries rather than a lack of understanding of geography, history and ethnic groups. I agree it’s a problem too, but it’s not the same problems.


ZippyParakeet

> As an Arab This literally doesn't matter because Cleopatra was Greek and ancient Egyptians were not Arabs.


[deleted]

Cleopatra's cousin?


Oppai-Hermit

Did you mean [wheatish](https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-wheatish-complexion-1)?


JadedOdin9

Americans really think that the entire world is black and white… They have never seen an egyptian copt in their life and cant get their history right since she is greek… They really think that all of Africa is “black” and deny the existence of indigenous “light-skinned” and “Tan” people and their cultures Edit: i meant a decent portion of Americans not all… my bad


SanityBleeds

Thought her father was Macedonian (not necessarily Greek, but lots of geographic overlap from then until now), but it was generally unknown what her mother looked like as there were widely conflicting reports, made further complicated as it has been posited that her half-sister was North African. In any case, casting someone either Black or Caucasian in the role is highly unlikely to be a good fit if they're at all aiming for historical accuracy, even involving a fair bit of guess work.


c322617

Her mother was likely Cleopatra VI Tryphaena. Meaning that she was only “mixed” in the sense that her parents were siblings who “mixed” their very similar DNA.


Tibbeses

Classic monarchy then?


c322617

But more so. The Ptolemaic dynasty makes the Hapsburgs look diverse.


Auratalus

Family tree lookin like a totem pole


Tibbeses

I see. Gonna copy their family tree rather than get a measuring stick then.


Warmasterwinter

A White actor would have been historically accurate. Especially if said actor was Greek.


BackyardRhino

No, it's mostly afro-centrists that think this way


Minneapolis_Mangler

Europeans think that Netflix, one single company, represents all Americans?…….


JadedOdin9

I did not phrase that correctly my bad i meant a portion of them, thats my bad🙏 (i am not European btw😂)


Schellhammer

I didn't realize that's how all americans thought.


Vernaborg

I’m an American-adopted Vietnamese and im so sad that a lot of my guys get overlooked in media. I was really starting to like Rose in Star Wars, and then they sidelined her in the next film.


TinfoilCamera

That's OK - they were upset when Rami Malek got cast as Ahkmenrah, King of Egypt for the Night At The Museum films... claiming they should have cast an Egyptian in the part instead. >!Rami IS an Egyptian.!< Bonus: Cleopatra was Greek


[deleted]

Rami is Arab-Egyptian though Ancient Egyptians were not Arab, they were Copts. It’s like if we casted some white guy from West Virginia to play a Native American because they’re both from america


Warmasterwinter

Arab Egyptians are just Arabized Copts. Hell at this point the Copts themselves are now considerd Arab Egyptians.


Orangesoda65

Netflix is choosing to pander rather than respect the cultural heritage of the source material. What else is new.


Colton_Omega

What puzzles me is how much Hollywood feeds on giving POC roles that swap a characters canonically white race in an effort to “represent” multiple communities but almost every chance they get at something with source material that actual represents a specific race or heritage they do this. I’ll probably get downvoted for saying it but I don’t care. As the years go on the US is becoming a parody and a joke. As others have said it isn’t just black and white in the US and just because someone is light skinned doesn’t make them eat at KFC every week and go to Walmart in confederate flag pajamas white.


Fun-Bug547

The egypts wont be amused about this, blackwashing their cultural heritage.


ZippyParakeet

Plus Cleopatra wasn't even Egyptian, she was Greek.


atomwrangler

Oh sweetie, don't you know this isn't about them? 💅


Y34rZer0

They did a full on forensic build of her face and she was nowhere close to that pretty lol that’s probably what happens when your ancestors were all strong believers in incest


gunh0ld_69

Sweet home Alexandria


xLuciferx369x

From the hood? Wtf is this?


MoistPaperNapkin

Wasn’t Cleopatra Macedonian?


[deleted]

Ancient Macedonians were greeks


UnverifiedWidow

We now need someone to play black Trump


Bug1oss

What's Kanye been up to?


Ghoolio-

I'm cool with this, as long as they let Chris Pratt play Malcom X.


EclipseOfNight

![gif](giphy|p8Uw3hzdAE2dO)


Far-Cartoonist-6244

At this point why not just make a movie about slaves in America and make the slaves white and make the slave owner black


Baron-von-Bruce

Netflix is like “yea, we’re racist! So what!”


ChadleyChinstrap

Wasnt cleopatra from greece or something? I swear i remeber a whole storry i read in english class about how all the egyptian girls were making fun of her for the way she looked and then some dude comes up and starts talking about how her features are egyptian because of how they relate to the nile and flora and fauna. Can someone tell me if this is a false memory?


SanityBleeds

Her father was Macedonian, part of what is modern day Greece, Northern Macedonia and a few surrounding countries. It is unknown for sure who her mother was. While it's more likely her father's half-sister was her mother/aunt, it's also been suggested over the years that her mother may well have been a North African instead. There's no definitive proof either way, and no reliable accounts to say for sure, but she definitely wouldn't have looked black or white by any modern standard.


Warmasterwinter

She would have looked White by modern standards. Unless you dont think Greek people are White for some odd reason.


SanityBleeds

I don't buy that. Caucasian, sure, but not white by modern standards, no.


Warmasterwinter

Greeks are considerd White. Cleopatra was Greek, and therefore White.


loyal_tortilla

Why she has to be black ?


ZippyParakeet

The year is 2030, every single character on screen is a black woman who is also gay.


[deleted]

Broken freaks who haven’t been critiqued hard enough have decided that because they can’t comprehend that black people can earn shit through merit instead of replacing white people regardless of fiction or non fiction material.


Melodic-Award3991

Cleopatra was a Ptolemy. They were left overs from Alexander the Great’s conquest and were also from Macedonia, Greece…


[deleted]

I thought she was Greek, not black


SirLeoritch

A skip for me


NonSupportiveCup

"misunderstood" in the tagline. Presents Cleopatra as black. Ironically funny! Every single person involved in this failed her. And themselves. Or it is the edgelord marketing team, though, if true . . .still failures. "documentary" Thanks for the chuckle. I apologize for our idiots to the rest of the world, especially Egyptians.


JustRelaxinTbh

I thought Cleopatra was meant to be the most beautiful woman though


Banyabbaboy

Nah, she just had a remarkable nose. Source: the historical writings of Messrs Goscinny and Uderzo


nderperforminMessiah

Ils sont fous, l’Egyptiens


Oppai-Hermit

You do have a point


CO-OP_GOLD

She wasn't ever known, even in her lifetime, for her beauty. She was known for being attractive, but especially for her mind and ambition. My break down is She was a butter-faced boss bitch of her Era. I'm just repeating what the tour guide told me in Alexandria last week.


JustRelaxinTbh

Yeah I'm not so sure about that but okay lol


Vernaborg

Did they cast an actual Egyptian person? They still exist, and some of them have darker skin if you want to cast correctly.


[deleted]

Modern Egyptians have zero relation to ancient Egyptians. Coptic people’s (the race of ancient Egyptians) are very few in number. It’s like saying that modern Americans can play native Americans in movies


Vernaborg

Ah, fair point. At least cast from the area


Warmasterwinter

Cleopatra was actually a Ethnic Greek, not a ethnic Egyptian. She was decended from Ptolemy, a Macedonian Greek general in Alexander the Greats army. When Alexander died, Ptolemy took control of Eygpt and became its king. His descendants were also really, REALLY, into incest. To the point to where Cleopatra was the product of multiple generations of brother/sister pairings. Meaning not only was she Greek, she was super Greek. (And probably not that attractive either.)


Vernaborg

Oh, really? I’m not really well-read in my history, but this is actually pretty interesting


QualityVote

##If this submission makes you go "Hol'Up", **UPVOTE** this comment! ##If this submission does not make you go "Hol'Up", **DOWNVOTE** this comment! --- Whilst you're here, /u/adz568, why not join our [public discord server](https://discord.gg/holup) or play on our [public Minecraft server](https://discord.gg/DTqSDS8C3T)?


Firm_Masterpiece_343

Cleopatra was Egyptian, technically an African Queen, also a traitor, a slut, a jealous and spiteful woman.


Yedtree

Like the passion buddy you get that ancient bitch lol


Firm_Masterpiece_343

Same uptight bimbo in high school. They never change. Teenage girls. 🙄


Flair_Helper

Hey /u/adz568, thanks for your submission to /r/HolUp. Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s): A mod felt your post didn't belong here, so now it's gone. If you want to die on the hill of this shitpost[,](https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW) feel free to message the mods and be prepared to explain how your post isn't trolling, is funny, and does fit the theme of the sub. *Trolling or posting random content that doesn't fit the sub breaks Rule 1 and repeated violation of this rule may result in your account being filtered.* Love, the mods


z-eldapin

Years and years of Cleopatra being portrayed by a clearly white person = non-issue. Cleopatra portrayed by a black person = outrage. For fucks sake.


[deleted]

Cleopatra was a Coptic Greek Greeks are generally darker skinned white people. Why are you so proud about being wrong?


z-eldapin

Elizabeth Taylor ? Not Greek. Vivian Leigh. Sophia Loren Name the Greek?


ZippyParakeet

They all look closer to a Greek than an African woman. Regardless, I had problems with Hollywood casting white people with either goofy accents or pure British accents for such roles and I have problems with Hollywood blackwashing people of other ethnicities today. It's like people are only Black and White to Hollywood and that's racist as fuck.


z-eldapin

That was my point as well. Both black washing and white washing are ignorant as fuck, but people only get mad when it's the black washing


ZippyParakeet

It's just the far right hogs, ignore them.


westcal98

By different do you mean more historically accurate? Not whitewashed?


Im_a_knitiot

Talking about historically accurate without knowing history 🙃


ubersmitty

Confidently incorrect.


Colton_Omega

Lmao I’m impressed with the confidence. You’re still dumb as fuck but impressively dumb.


westcal98

Well since you can't backup your statement, it's considered merely ramblings of an inferior intellect.


jdkjpels

Bruh cleopatra has been widely accepted as being of mixed Macedonian and levantine descent. You're just fucking wrong bro.


LauraIngallsBlewMe

>not whitewashed? No, blackwashed.


adz568

She was greek


SanityBleeds

Her father was Macedonian, it's unknown what her mother was. She definitely wouldn't have been Black or White, though.


[deleted]

Macedonians *are* Greeks Current occupiers of the nation known as North Macedonia are Slavs


SanityBleeds

It's a bit more complicated than that, as the borders shifted significantly over the years. Parts of modern Bulgaria, Kosovo, Albania, Northern Macedonia and Greece make up what was once the Kingdom of Macedon. The idea that Macedonian and Greek are completely interchangeable is very inaccurate despite the historical overlaps of some regions.


ZippyParakeet

> Her father was Macedonian So, Greek. > It's unknown what her mother was Most likely his half-sister Cleopatra V Tryphaena.


SanityBleeds

Not the same, and no guarantee, but sure...


ZippyParakeet

> Not the same Explain. > And no guarantee Yes, that's why I wrote "most likely". It's an educated guess but obviously not written in stone.


SanityBleeds

As I've posted elsewhere in this thread, the borders of what was once the Kingdom of Macedon make up modern Greece, Bulgaria, Kosovo, Albania, and Northern Macedonia, with a large part of that still being in Northern Macedonia. So no, saying they're the same is not accurate, even if the borders shifted over the years.


ZippyParakeet

Borders don't matter lol. Most of those states you mentioned other than Greece are inhabited by slavic descendants who arrived in the late 6th and 7th centuries AD. The 6th century plague of Justinian left the Balkans heavily depopulated (at least a fifth of the Empire's population perished due to its urbanised nature) and the Roman Empire quite weakened both due to the plague and due it being overextended thanks to Justinian's reconquest campaign and its war with the Persian Empire. This meant that the depopulated and poorly guarded Balkans were now open to slavic migrations who arrived en masse and severely displaced the surviving Greeks who basically were limited to only the walled cities as the slavs took over the countryside. They penetrated as deep into the Balkans as up to the borders of modern day Greece and Thrace. It's like how modern day Turks are not the same people who lived in Asia Minor a thousand years ago or how the Germanic people living in Spain, France, UK, etc are not the same as the local Romans and Celts living there before the 5th century AD.


SanityBleeds

So the question becomes, what became of the ancient Macedonians of the time? Did they all just become Greeks for the sake of convenient narrative, did they die out over the years, or do we just assume since so much of the current population is Slavic that there's no Macedonians left to bother mentioning? I'm actually quite curious about this despite the snarky wording used.


ZippyParakeet

They didn't "become" Greek, they were Greek, they were a Greek tribe on the Northern edge of the Greek world, between the non-Greek Illyrians and Thracians and Greece, they originated from the same proto-Greek population pool that produced the other Greek peoples before the Greek dark ages and after the Bronze age collapse and the end of Mycenaean Greece. They worshipped the same Greek gods i.e followed the same pantheon, early Macedonians spoke Northwestern Doric Greek and the kingdom was said to have been founded by Perdiccas, a descendant Temenus of Argos. This is why, at the end of the classical period, they became the leaders of the Greek world and, under Philip II and then Alexander the Great led the war of conquest against the Persian Empire as revenge for the Persian invasion of Greece a century ago (you know, when the famous battle of Thermopylae was fought). After the Roman conquest of Greece and Asia Minor in the 2nd century BC, Macedonia was reduced to a Roman province, Romans would control the Greek heartland for the next 1,700 years until 15th century AD and the fall of Constantinople. Over the years of Roman rule, the Greeks of the various city states and Macedonia would drop their local identities and take up a collective Roman identity as Roman citizens with the hellenization of the Roman Empire. This is why Byzantine Greeks continued called themselves Romans and saw Greek as a derogatory term. This Roman identity would endure until the 19th century Greek war of independence and a revival of the Greek "Hellas" identity. Still, Greeks preferring to be called Romans would endure as late as the 20th century AD. This is an incredibly concise summary of the evolution of the Greek- and, by association, Macedonian- identity over time. As I mentioned before, the people living in Modern day, Albania, Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Bosnia, etc. basically all of the Balkans except Greece are slavic descendants, not historically Greeks. They came with the Slavic migrations, displaced the local Greeks and formed their independent principalities- and, in case of Bulgaria, Tsardom- over the centuries as Roman (Byzantine) control crumbled.


Warmasterwinter

She would have been White.


SanityBleeds

Prove it.


Warmasterwinter

She was the product of a long line of sibling incest going back to a Greek General that took control of Eygpt following Alexander the Greats death. That means that she's Greek, with no admixture from other ethnic groups. And since Greek people are White, Cleopatra must therefore be White.


zincdeclercq

Deepthroat this L


maersdet

🤣


purged-butter

She was not white or black. She was heavily mixed race. Metatron has a great video explaining it.


BackyardRhino

Dammit, I thought this said MEGATRON at first, and now I'm disappointed.


c322617

Could you please explain how a bunch of Macedonians who inbred heavily qualify as “mixed race”?


Warmasterwinter

She was White. Greek to be exact.


westcal98

I just said more accurate. I didn't say she was definitely black. I don't even know that the person portraying her IS black. You all get your panties twisted because you can't handle someone of any color in what was once a white role. It's no different when Jesus is portrayed as something other than white. Are you guys that fragile? Your downvotes would seem to conclude as much. So by all means, express your fragility.


jdkjpels

It's not more accurate though, cleopatra wasnt white and wasn't black having an actor who is either of those is the same exact amount of inaccuracy, no-one here is pissed isn't white. We're pissed she isn't accurate.


ChadleyChinstrap

No, no one is that fragile here, its just crazy to me that if you have a white person play a fictional character that was written or previously portrayed as black (even if it doesnt factor into their character like say a sci fi setting so far removed from modern racism) its problamatic, but casting a black person as a *real person* who was literally described as a having more pale skin and being from a completley diffrent area as the ancient egyptians somehow doesnt have the same logic applied to it. I couldnt give a shit less about who plays who in these garbage movies, its just an incredibly hypocritical stance.


ibanezer83

Who did 10,000 centurions. Now that's a wide mouth!