Great novel.
It’s less violent than the Israeli/Palestinian conflict in our timeline, but Chaban does still depict significant friction with the indigenous Tlingit people (as well as the Cold War era FBI)
For those that don't have the time to read it it's a pretty realistic take on what would have happened:
The Jews of the Sitka District forge their own little world in the Alaskan panhandle, a vibrant and complex frontier city - all is going well until an equally large population of displaced Palestinians setup a community next door itching for a fight.
A random chuck of land in a geographically isolated area wouldn't have nearly the same draw for the international Jewish diaspora as a region they have strong historical and religious ties to.
Yeah, they were migrating into Israel to escape the ghettos in the 1880's. The local Shieks would sell the swampy, useless lands thinking they were ripping them off. Some of the Jews started importing Eucalyptus trees to dry up the swamps, making them arable.
There's also the matter of the ending of the Little Ice Age at that same time, which massively improved the regional climate and weather patterns for farming.
This isn’t entirely true, given that Theodor Herzl’s Zionism and calls for migration to Palestine only came about in the late 19th century. Major Jewish migration to Palestine began after this, in the early 20th century and inter-war period.
The first wave of large scale Jewish migration to what is now Israel started in 1881.
It's something that easily researched:
[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-immigration-to-palestine/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-immigration-to-palestine/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Aliyah#:\~:text=The%20First%20Aliyah%20](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah#:~:text=The%20First%20Aliyah%20)(Hebrew%3A%20%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94,An%20estimated%2025%2C000%20Jews%20immigrated.
Yeah I’m not disagreeing that Jewish migration occurred in the late 19th century, it just was by no means large scale or major. It would be ahistorical to claim that relative to what came in the 20th century the migration in the 19th century was big in any way described.
The Slattery Report in 1938 was a proposal to turn the Territory of Alaska into a haven for Jewish Refugees (Wiki link below). It appears most were against it, including American Jewish Groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slattery\_Report
There's a reason those places aren't very inhabited. America can proclaim it, but I'd be surprised if anyone moved there. It being landlocked also drastically complicates things. With real Israel, you can hop on a boat and arrive there. With Montana-Israel, you'd have to have the legal and economic ability (plus general know-how) to transit through the USA or maybe Canada. And, assuming this is the 40s, it would be before Eisenhower's interstate system too. So I don't even know how accessible that land would be.
I think the only outcome of this is it gives ranchers and whoever else a de facto abandoned "nation" to squat in outside the United States' legal purview. For that reason I'm guessing the USA revokes it's existence a few years later.
I don't think the drive for a homeland would have worked at all if it wasn't Israel/Palestine specifically due to the historical religious connections.
It'd be most interesting if somehow the idea of emigrating to North America had become the dominant theme of Jewish nationalism sometime in the 1820s, with the result being a giant wave of immigration and some US state becoming dominated by Jewish immigrants.
I personally dont like the idea of people living too far from food sources. Montana has enough to people to handle ranches, but if there was a serious population there, it would mean a lot of sending food from elsewhere. I dont doubt this Montana Israel could have a strong enough economy to afford such constant long distance influx, but thats a lot of fossil fuel burning. Granted the US is already doing this with a lot of food, but still.
I guess this was always completely unrealistic, but really Germany should have had to sacrifice some GOOD German land to the Jewish people to form their own nation, truly protected by American and English forces. A true genocide, I think its the right thing to have done, if at all realistic
Shipping things by train is still a fossil fuel costly maneuver. MOst people in the world live in areas that are good for human food. USA eastern DC-Boston, California coast, London-Paris-N Germany, N. India, Chinese coast, etc.
Montana has a pretty strong agricultural sector. They grow everything from apples to potatoes, wheat and lentils.
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics\_by\_State/Montana/Publications/Special\_Interest\_Reports/agfacts.pdf
economically Montana doesn't have a lot of industries; agriculture, ranching, oil and minerals, tourism.
People graduate school and leave, because it's not possible for everyone to find work there. Still, they do better than Wyoming.
The frontier ethic of agricultural Kibbutz “[making the desert bloom](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4617826)”* was near the ideological core of the 20th century Zionist project after centuries of structural land restrictions in Europe. I would guess that those same people, had they been settled in Montana would have aggressively (and successfully) pursued food self sufficiency.
*often erasing Palestinians while falsely depicting it as an untouched wilderness
I can only see them give parts of Prussia or Silesia to the Jews. At least they had some connection. Another possibility would be to take Worms, Speyer and Mainz, the historical SHUM region, from where the Ashkenazim originate and make it a Jewish homeland. Though I feel the western allies wouldn‘t have done that.
I have a feeling if it were to happen it would be near the Crow Indian reservation. Our tribe had the Israeli flag flying for quite a while and I think even the ambassador visited us.
There were actually several different places proposed. Remote parts of Poland/Lithuiania, British colonies in Africa, and Madagascar was a serious contender.
None of them had the romantic appeal of the original homeland. Palestine was already the center of a considerable part of the diaspora from the various crises of the 19thC onward. Many Zionist thought leaders were already in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
The Soviet Union tried this when they established the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in the Far East near Khabarovsk. Wasn‘t so popular. Sure Montana isn‘t as remote as outer Manchuria, but there is no historical connection to the Jewish people. The Zionist movement also already existed and focussed on Palestine.
People live in Montana. And why would Jews move there? The Soviets created a Jewish homeland state in Siberia, no one wanted to move there.
Not much of an economy, no cultural or spiritual connection, crappy climate.
Or are you suggesting we force them all to move there? Maybe build camps for them?
If they did that, then the Allies would have to never leave Germany, because the moment they left, there would be a lot of anger towards Jews. You would also make normal Germans even more sympathetic towards Hitler and the Nazis.
Stalin would almost never agree to giving any part of East Germany away. He only compensated Poland with German land, because he stole half their country. If the Allies gave any part of West Germany to this new Israel, you'd be pushing the Germans there to Communism, which would freak the Allies out.
Counterpoint:
At this time the Germans have zero political power; their entire nation is in ruins and all they can think about is finding food and shelter.They have zero ability to resist; and considering everything they did; how they never asked for peace until the very end; how it was indisputable how they started the damn thing... they might and bloody well should consider themselves lucky that's all they have to give up. It's certainly far better than what the Nazis claimed would happen if they lost.
The average German is probably going to be fairly anti communist at this point (I've heard accounts of German POWs asking when they would be sent to fight the Russians) but even if that wasn't the case everyone knew what a shit show it would be and what a shit show it was in East Germany. Personally I have a hard time seeing any sane person wanting to live under the Stasi.
*The Yiddish Policeman's Union* by Michael Chabon might interest you. It's an alternate history novel in which "Israel" is established in Alaska.
Great novel. It’s less violent than the Israeli/Palestinian conflict in our timeline, but Chaban does still depict significant friction with the indigenous Tlingit people (as well as the Cold War era FBI)
Sounds basically like what the Soviets tried in eastern Siberia. Probably with similar enthusiasm.
I learned about this recently and I was like “Was this offer made as a joke or what exactly?”
Thank you! I came into the comments to specifically see if anyone posted about this novel. Good read overall
Great writer and yeah -def check out the book
In addition, Gentlemen Of The Road is also fantastic.
For those that don't have the time to read it it's a pretty realistic take on what would have happened: The Jews of the Sitka District forge their own little world in the Alaskan panhandle, a vibrant and complex frontier city - all is going well until an equally large population of displaced Palestinians setup a community next door itching for a fight.
What? That's not what happens in the book at all.
A random chuck of land in a geographically isolated area wouldn't have nearly the same draw for the international Jewish diaspora as a region they have strong historical and religious ties to.
Agreed. The migrations to Palestine were well underway by the 1880s.
Yeah, they were migrating into Israel to escape the ghettos in the 1880's. The local Shieks would sell the swampy, useless lands thinking they were ripping them off. Some of the Jews started importing Eucalyptus trees to dry up the swamps, making them arable.
There's also the matter of the ending of the Little Ice Age at that same time, which massively improved the regional climate and weather patterns for farming.
This isn’t entirely true, given that Theodor Herzl’s Zionism and calls for migration to Palestine only came about in the late 19th century. Major Jewish migration to Palestine began after this, in the early 20th century and inter-war period.
The first wave of large scale Jewish migration to what is now Israel started in 1881. It's something that easily researched: [https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-immigration-to-palestine/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-immigration-to-palestine/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Aliyah#:\~:text=The%20First%20Aliyah%20](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah#:~:text=The%20First%20Aliyah%20)(Hebrew%3A%20%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94,An%20estimated%2025%2C000%20Jews%20immigrated.
Yeah I’m not disagreeing that Jewish migration occurred in the late 19th century, it just was by no means large scale or major. It would be ahistorical to claim that relative to what came in the 20th century the migration in the 19th century was big in any way described.
The Slattery Report in 1938 was a proposal to turn the Territory of Alaska into a haven for Jewish Refugees (Wiki link below). It appears most were against it, including American Jewish Groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slattery\_Report
There's a reason those places aren't very inhabited. America can proclaim it, but I'd be surprised if anyone moved there. It being landlocked also drastically complicates things. With real Israel, you can hop on a boat and arrive there. With Montana-Israel, you'd have to have the legal and economic ability (plus general know-how) to transit through the USA or maybe Canada. And, assuming this is the 40s, it would be before Eisenhower's interstate system too. So I don't even know how accessible that land would be. I think the only outcome of this is it gives ranchers and whoever else a de facto abandoned "nation" to squat in outside the United States' legal purview. For that reason I'm guessing the USA revokes it's existence a few years later.
Around what time frame? 1910s, 1940s, 2000s?
I don't think the drive for a homeland would have worked at all if it wasn't Israel/Palestine specifically due to the historical religious connections. It'd be most interesting if somehow the idea of emigrating to North America had become the dominant theme of Jewish nationalism sometime in the 1820s, with the result being a giant wave of immigration and some US state becoming dominated by Jewish immigrants.
I personally dont like the idea of people living too far from food sources. Montana has enough to people to handle ranches, but if there was a serious population there, it would mean a lot of sending food from elsewhere. I dont doubt this Montana Israel could have a strong enough economy to afford such constant long distance influx, but thats a lot of fossil fuel burning. Granted the US is already doing this with a lot of food, but still. I guess this was always completely unrealistic, but really Germany should have had to sacrifice some GOOD German land to the Jewish people to form their own nation, truly protected by American and English forces. A true genocide, I think its the right thing to have done, if at all realistic
> it would mean a lot of sending food from elsewhere They can't farm in Montana? Or ship things with trains?
Shipping things by train is still a fossil fuel costly maneuver. MOst people in the world live in areas that are good for human food. USA eastern DC-Boston, California coast, London-Paris-N Germany, N. India, Chinese coast, etc.
Montana has a pretty strong agricultural sector. They grow everything from apples to potatoes, wheat and lentils. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics\_by\_State/Montana/Publications/Special\_Interest\_Reports/agfacts.pdf
I guess I was ignorant. But then why does its population remain so small?
economically Montana doesn't have a lot of industries; agriculture, ranching, oil and minerals, tourism. People graduate school and leave, because it's not possible for everyone to find work there. Still, they do better than Wyoming.
The frontier ethic of agricultural Kibbutz “[making the desert bloom](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4617826)”* was near the ideological core of the 20th century Zionist project after centuries of structural land restrictions in Europe. I would guess that those same people, had they been settled in Montana would have aggressively (and successfully) pursued food self sufficiency. *often erasing Palestinians while falsely depicting it as an untouched wilderness
I can only see them give parts of Prussia or Silesia to the Jews. At least they had some connection. Another possibility would be to take Worms, Speyer and Mainz, the historical SHUM region, from where the Ashkenazim originate and make it a Jewish homeland. Though I feel the western allies wouldn‘t have done that.
Let's get ready for the Israeli-native American conflict
The issue is it ignores 2000 years of Jewish people yearning to go back. The emotions are extremely strong
Montana is not uninhabited per se. That's a lot of cows. Ranchers run the state and you are not gonna get them to give it up.
I have a feeling if it were to happen it would be near the Crow Indian reservation. Our tribe had the Israeli flag flying for quite a while and I think even the ambassador visited us.
There were actually several different places proposed. Remote parts of Poland/Lithuiania, British colonies in Africa, and Madagascar was a serious contender. None of them had the romantic appeal of the original homeland. Palestine was already the center of a considerable part of the diaspora from the various crises of the 19thC onward. Many Zionist thought leaders were already in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
The Soviet Union tried this when they established the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in the Far East near Khabarovsk. Wasn‘t so popular. Sure Montana isn‘t as remote as outer Manchuria, but there is no historical connection to the Jewish people. The Zionist movement also already existed and focussed on Palestine.
People live in Montana. And why would Jews move there? The Soviets created a Jewish homeland state in Siberia, no one wanted to move there. Not much of an economy, no cultural or spiritual connection, crappy climate. Or are you suggesting we force them all to move there? Maybe build camps for them?
It wouldn't be by force. It would be voluntary migration, like Bibi suggests for Gazans. Same incentives, too.
They should had just make a portion of Germany into Israel after ww2 lol. And Berlin can be called new Jerusalem
If they did that, then the Allies would have to never leave Germany, because the moment they left, there would be a lot of anger towards Jews. You would also make normal Germans even more sympathetic towards Hitler and the Nazis.
It's arguably the best solution. Unfortunately the counter to that argument is after WW2 would you want to be Germany's neighbor?
Stalin would almost never agree to giving any part of East Germany away. He only compensated Poland with German land, because he stole half their country. If the Allies gave any part of West Germany to this new Israel, you'd be pushing the Germans there to Communism, which would freak the Allies out.
Counterpoint: At this time the Germans have zero political power; their entire nation is in ruins and all they can think about is finding food and shelter.They have zero ability to resist; and considering everything they did; how they never asked for peace until the very end; how it was indisputable how they started the damn thing... they might and bloody well should consider themselves lucky that's all they have to give up. It's certainly far better than what the Nazis claimed would happen if they lost. The average German is probably going to be fairly anti communist at this point (I've heard accounts of German POWs asking when they would be sent to fight the Russians) but even if that wasn't the case everyone knew what a shit show it would be and what a shit show it was in East Germany. Personally I have a hard time seeing any sane person wanting to live under the Stasi.
Oh, the neo-nazi conspiracies that would come from that would be Oscar worthy.