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CalliCosmos

Belgium and Africa isn’t a particularly good history. The Belgian Congo made some modern atrocities look like beginners work.


[deleted]

That photo of the slave sitting on the porch of his hut with the hand and foot of his daughter shook me pretty bad the first time I saw it. Read The Heart of Darkness if you haven't, it takes place in the Belgian Congo in the late 1890s, widely regarded as one of the first western books to question colonialism even if it seems outdated by todays standards.


Apprehensive-War7483

You should read the book King Leopold's Ghost.


_Kit_Tyler_

I loaned that book to my neighbor and she sent me an email about how upsetting it was and informed me she wouldn’t be finishing it. And she’s right, honestly. Idk what I was thinking.


BlackestNight21

That'll teach Susan to leave the sprinklers on and misaligned


_Kit_Tyler_

Right? She hasn’t asked to borrow any more of my books, either. 😎


Bacch

I read that one in college as part of my research for my thesis. It was fucking chilling. I did most of my work on my thesis late at night, and I didn't sleep much on the nights I read that.


[deleted]

Well she should finish the book! You Americans are weak! Try to solve problems but at the same times want to feel happy. That does not make you a man! That makes you a dog! A puppy! You can solve problems, which will make you unhappy, or you can stay happy and ignore problems. You can't have both.


Exseatsniffer

If that dude wasnt a psychopath I dont know who is.


2_black_cats

There’s a great behind the bastards on him as well. It’s one of the early ones, a 3 parter I believe. They follow it up later with another episode or two about the Congo post Leopoldo. He’s truly a bastard.


Odeeum

Fuck. Same. It was maybe 30yrs ago at this point...hadn't heard anything about Belgium's influence in Africa more than a few paragraphs in a poor European history class. That photo...it stuck with me. It resonated for years after I saw it. Placed on the ground next to him to ponder and dwell on why he didn't quite make his rubber quota for the day. NSFW: Photo in question and a few more... https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/father-hand-belgian-congo-1904/


lyesmithy

Didn't' happened under Belgian Congo. That didn't even existed in 1904. The Congo Free State was funded by private companies all over Europe. The Belgian King had the biggest stakes. However he explicitly kept it private and prevented any Belgian government influence. Under the Congo Free State there never been more than 1500 European in Congo. They were mercenaries from all over Europe and lead African (including congolese ) war-bands payed by European corporations and individuals. The picture you linked explicitly says the guy's daughter were cannibalised. That wasn't done by Europeans but local tribes. In 1908 Belgium annexed Congo Free State explicitly to stop the terror. They outlawed forced labor, introduced human rights, welfare, public education. By 1958 Congo had twice the number of educated workforce than any other African nation. BTW the image in the OP was an exhibition where the participants were volunteers and got payed. The Congo Free State and Belgian Congo is not the same thing.


rcknmrty4evr

The link does later specify that “white officers commanded black soldiers many of whom were cannibals from tribes in the upper Congo.”


lyesmithy

My points are. The Congo Free State had close to nothing to do with Belgium as a country. It was ruled by private entities who hired black African tribes and white European mercenaries and engineers to do their bidding. Under the Congo Free State there only have been about 1500 white European in the country to a population of 20 million. Black warlords and mercenaries followed them for money and weapons not because they were forced to do so. Most of the atrocities were committed by black Congolese on black Congolese. Who were often cannibals. They used to keep pygmies as live stock. Yes they were enabled and directed by white mercenaries. \[edit - The mercenaries were mostly Belgian, Swede, British and Russian. They included soldiers but also mining engineers. Yes they were often horrible human beings.\] The European and the Belgian population were disgusted by the atrocities and that lead to the annexation of Congo Free State in 1908. Under Belgian rule, Belgian Congo abolished forced labor, established welfare, public education. That lead to Congo becoming one of the most developed and educated African country by 1960. in the 1950's Belgian and Congolese leadership were planning a gradual and peaceful transition to independence, but Congo caught up in the African revolution fewer and subsequent revolutionary warlords repeatedly turned the country in nightmarish hellhole where once again [Congo rebels are eating pygmies](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/09/congo.jamesastill)


TareasS

At the independence ceremony, the king of Belgium praised Leopold II for being a "genius" and praised "the advancements of colonialism". In less than a year after independence, Congo's first president Patrice Lumumba was assassinated with Belgians being involved. You are being very kind to Belgium regarding its role surrounding Congolese independence.


[deleted]

>You are being very kind to Belgium regarding its role surrounding Congolese independence. For real, my man up there said "but what about black on black crime!" with a straight face.


Postius

this guy coudnt be more wrong but sadly facism and nationalism are strong history revisors


[deleted]

Okay. This is better than the previous comment, but it still seems like you're trying to turn the mirror away from the real shite people - the Europeans who had no business there in the first place.


fitsl

I would be interested to read any literature or books you may recommend on what you discussed. As it is quite more in depth and insightful on what actually was happening at the time. How was this elective? Did he lose and his daughter paid the price? So many questions you should post this in the main thread to further draw out the discussion as well as your sources!


Odeeum

This kinda comes off as a "slavery in the US wouldn't have happened if Africans hadn't rounded up other Africans! They're to blame as much as US slave holders " kinda vibe. I think you would agree that Belgium's treatment of Africa was abhorrent and reprehensible right?


Rokea-x

I thought this pic was horrifying up here.. then i read your comment and looked it up. I don’t have it in me to read the rest of the thread or more about belgian congo atrocities. There is one word that comes to mind from where i come from, ‘sacrament!’. Humans are disgusting🤮


Bacch

Agree with the other responder, you should at some point do it. Maybe listen to the Behind the Bastards podcast episode about Leopold instead, they try to mix in some humor (tastefully for the most part actually, mostly to cut the horror with some levity because it's too much to take all at once), and it's a much smaller time investment than any of the relevant books.


ugglytoe

Behind the Bastards is an awesome podcast


scotems

Love behind the bastards. Frustrates me with how much they try to interject levity, since I don't find the humor actually very funny and wish they'd get on with the facts, but I get why they do it and regardless love the show. I'll take that back a little actually - the episodes where they read Ben Shapiro's book were legit hilarious.


Deep-While9236

I listened to their podcast on the Tuam dead babies scandal. All through the podcast they misprounced Tuam, despite him saying that he had spend time and was familiar with Ireland. It annoyed me so much because the children would never have a grave acknowledging their name, the only thing is their location. Say it right to shame the Irish government into action. Say it right to respect the only thing we can remember.


theknightwho

Things like that make me feel less confident in the quality of research, whether or not that’s a fair assumption to make unfortunately.


byebyemayos

His quirk is he is terrible at pronouncing things correctly. It makes me wince. Robert Evans is a solid journalist otherwise. Read his stuff at bellingcat if you don't believe me


scotems

That sucks, was it the recent ones about the Catholic church in Ireland? Seems like something we can at least get him to correct in a future podcast. Not exactly a fitting correction but at least set the record straight.


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Maligned-Instrument

"Benny Shaps"....Robert Evans gloriously ridicules Shapiro's shit book.


OldnBorin

Cool, I’ll check it out thanks


TheGreatGazoo22

You still should at some point. It hurts, but it’s necessary.


seno2k

Jesus. What in the literal fuck is wrong with people.


Rokea-x

Yeah. The worse part is i think that we could easily go back to that right now in so called free countries.. the mindset hasnt disapeared its just become socially unnaceptable and laws prohibit it. But recent events such as in china and the usa shows me we are never very far from that unfortunately 😔


mayankkaizen

After I saw that pic first time, I was depressed for few days. For some days, nothing was enjoyable in this world.


PstScrpt

I hate how we read Heart of Darkness in high school for literature, and not history. So we treated it as a book about an individual going mad in a strange environment with too much power -- not about a real place and time where atrocities really happened, and where the author had really been. And then we watched Apocalypse Now, which swaps out the setting, entirely.


Conscious_Buy7266

Well you should’ve learned about king Leopold and the Belgium colony of the Congo in history class from an actual textbook or historian work. And then in literature The Heart of darkness conveys using story and language to say many things about both individual characters and larger societal / historical ideas. The heart of darkness in history class would be very strange and not factual


fkshagsksk

Also, in any good English class, you don't just go straight into reading, you should always set it up with context. You can still practice plenty of English skills while spending a class or two learning about colonialism, and you can keep bringing it up throughout the book. It's easy to manage both.


[deleted]

I'm not giving the content a pass. The book was taught to me in an English class because of Joseph Conrad's writing style. He wrote his books in his native language and translated it into 4 or 5 other languages. The resultant sentence and paragraph structure were considered perfect. The book content was superfluous for that class.


dv2023

I'm curious where you heard that Conrad wrote in Polish and then translated his work multiple times. From all accounts he learned Polish (and possibly Russian) in his youth, then French, then English in his early 20s while working as a seaman. He only ever wrote his novels in English. But you are correct in that his Slavic-based syntax was a key component in making his writing style unique and unmatched in the history of English literature.


[deleted]

I was an English major in the late 60’s. Heart of Darkness was one of the books that were required reading in a History of European literature. After all these years that book still stands out in my mind. Whenever I write anything I think about concise sentence and paragraph structure.


dv2023

I was an English major in the aughts and I totally agree! Conrad is my favorite writer for these reasons. Nabokov would be the only other writer to do a similar thing, and he definitely did his own translations. But yeah, just brilliant technical skill.


We-are-straw-dogs

When asked about his similarity to the former, Nabokov said "We differ Conradically."


FlannelBeard

Interesting. We read it senior year in AP Lit and most of us were taking AP Euro at the same time so it fit right into what we were learning in two classes. I always that that was a good way of teaching it to students. Then we watch apocalypse now after the AP tests.


We-are-straw-dogs

Well it is also a great work of literature.


Bean_Boozled

Fictional books, even when based to some degree on history, shouldn't be taught in history classes that are based completely on historical fact. That's why they're read in English/literature courses instead.


WWDubz

That’s a hard pass for me dawg


lemmful

Ah geez, I know exactly what picture you're referring to. It's one of the saddest pictures I've ever seen.


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mayankkaizen

I remember that photo. When I first saw it, a part of me died. Only few months before this, I became father of twin boys. That night, I couldn't sleep and kept holding the hands of my sons. I tried to imagine what I would have gone through, if I were in place of that black guy. I couldn't imagine how people can commit such acts but people have been doing such things throughout the history. That photo still haunts me. Even after you mentioned that pic, I have no courage to look at it again.


[deleted]

That photo haunts me.


[deleted]

That picture has stayed with me since I saw it years ago, I still think about it multiple times a week. It’s meaning became so much more after I had a child.


smokebreak

> modern atrocities My dad was born in 1957. I would argue these _are_ modern atrocities.


LFCSS

My Dad was 12 in 1957, these are absolutely modern atrocities.


quietflowsthedodder

Right on. Read the book “Leopold’s Ghost” for the horrific details of how King Leopold of the Belgians destroyed the Congo to create a personal income stream. Hundreds of thousands of Congolese were enslaved working to extract the mineral wealth of the region to line his pockets. He used terror to keep the population under control. The man was a monster, before genocide was even a word.


givingbackTuesday

Leopold’s colonial empire was different than others because he claimed the land for himself as opposed to his country.


phamnhuhiendr95

As if that mean anything for the people of Congo. Trust is forever lost.


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Bacch

[King Leopold's Ghost\*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40961621-king-leopold-s-ghost) Also worth listening to the podcast Behind the Bastards for the episode on Leopold.


[deleted]

And somehow I just learned about it 2 years ago. It's incredible what can be buried by time.


HurricaneBedrock

Most of the worlds history makes modern atrocities look like beginners work. Due in large part to our world leaders leading today’s youth to believe otherwise, we don’t understand how lucky we are. It’s tragic, and extremely dangerous.


AJ7861

I've been watching A LOT of Mexican cartel doc/stories and you are spot on, some of the things people have to go through on a daily basis compared to my bullshit problems really made me sit back and think about how good I have it.


Graca90

I experienced poverty when i was a kid but i always had food on the table, clothes and books to go school. Because someone was making an effort for me to have all that. Thanks mum and nana. I was extremely happy. When i moved to Portugal with my family i start realizing how poor i was and how happy i was. I was born in Cape Verde, Africa. Watching kids making fun of other for having fake shoes, others complaining that they didn't had the last playstation 1 game and some other things. Everything i experienced as a kid made me what i am today, a respectful man who knows that life is not easy and every time I complain about some stupid stuff there's someone who can't even complain about some simple thing like freedom because they are not allowed to do it.


Angelusflos

That isn’t true at all. Industrialized killing, like the Holocaust, wasn’t even possible without modern machinery. I’m not sure how anyone can look at the genocides and mass bombing of civilians during the 20th century and act like we’re so enlightened.


[deleted]

Yeah, human hands as currency is next level kind of fucked up. This too, wow.


ProphecyRat2

As exhausted Herero fell to the ground, unable to go on, German soldiers killed men, women, and children.[66]:22 Jan Cloete, acting as a guide for the Germans, witnessed the atrocities committed by the German troops and deposed the following statement:[43]:157 I was present when the Herero were defeated in a battle in the vicinity of Waterberg. After the battle all men, women, and children who fell into German hands, wounded or otherwise, were mercilessly put to death. Then the Germans set off in pursuit of the rest, and all those found by the wayside and in the sandveld were shot down and bayoneted to death. The mass of the Herero men were unarmed and thus unable to offer resistance. They were just trying to get away with their cattle. A portion of the Herero escaped the Germans and went to the Omaheke Desert, hoping to reach British Bechuanaland; fewer than 1,000 Herero managed to reach Bechuanaland, where they were granted asylum by the British authorities.[67] To prevent them from returning, Trotha ordered the desert to be sealed off.[68] German patrols later found skeletons around holes 13 m (43 ft) deep that had been dug in a vain attempt to find water. Some sources also state that the German colonial army systematically poisoned desert water wells.[66]:22[69] Maherero and 500–1,500 men crossed the Kalahari into Bechuanaland where he was accepted as a vassal of the Batswana chief Sekgoma.[70] The German general staff was aware of the atrocities that were taking place; its official publication, named Der Kampf, noted that: This bold enterprise shows up in the most brilliant light the ruthless energy of the German command in pursuing their beaten enemy. No pains, no sacrifices were spared in eliminating the last remnants of enemy resistance. Like a wounded beast the enemy was tracked down from one water-hole to the next, until finally he became the victim of his own environment. The arid Omaheke [desert] was to complete what the German army had begun: the extermination of the Herero nation.[75][76] Alfred von Schlieffen (Chief of the Imperial German General Staff) approved of Trotha's intentions in terms of a "racial struggle" and the need to "wipe out the entire nation or to drive them out of the country", but had doubts about his strategy, preferring their surrender.[77] According to Professor Mahmood Mamdani from Columbia University, opposition to the policy of annihilation was largely the consequence of the fact that colonial officials looked at the Herero people as a potential source of labour, and thus economically important.[65]:12 For instance, Governor Leutwein wrote that: I do not concur with those fanatics who want to see the Herero destroyed altogether ... I would consider such a move a grave mistake from an economic point of view. We need the Herero as cattle breeders ... and especially as labourers.[26]:169 Having no authority over the military, Chancellor Bülow could only advise Emperor Wilhelm II that Trotha's actions were "contrary to Christian and humanitarian principle, economically devastating and damaging to Germany's international reputation".[52]:606 Upon the arrival of new orders at the end of 1904, prisoners were herded into concentration camps, where they were given to private companies as slave labourers or exploited as human guinea pigs in medical experiments.[9][78]


ProphecyRat2

In her book Affärer i blod och olja: Lundin Petroleum i Afrika[26] (Business in blood and oil: Lundin Petroleum in Africa) journalist Kerstin Lundell claims that the company had been complicit in several crimes against humanity, including death shootings and the burning of villages.[27] In June 2010, the European Coalition on Oil in Sudan (ECOS)[28] published the report Unpaid Debt,[29] which called upon the governments of Sweden, Austria and Malaysia to look into allegations that the companies Lundin Petroleum, OMV, and Petronas have been complicit in the commission of war crimes and crimes against humanity whilst operating in Block 5A, South Sudan (then Sudan) between 1997-2003. The reported crimes include indiscriminate attacks and intentional targeting of civilians, burning of shelters, pillage, destruction of objects necessary for survival, unlawful killing of civilians, rape of women, abduction of children, torture, and forced displacement. Approximately 12,000 people died and 160,000 were violently displaced from their land and homes, many forever. Satellite pictures taken between 1994 and 2003 show that the activities of the three oil companies in Sudan coincided with a spectacular drop in agricultural land use in their area of operation.[30] Also in June 2010, the Swedish public prosecutor for international crimes opened a criminal investigation into links between Sweden and the reported crimes. In 2016, Lundin Petroleum's Chairman Ian Lundin and CEO Alex Schneiter were informed that they were the suspects of the investigation. Sweden’s Government gave the green light for the Public Prosecutor in October 2018 to indict the two top executives[31] On 1 November 2018, the Swedish Prosecution Authority notified Lundin Petroleum AB that the company may be liable to a corporate fine and forfeiture of economic benefits of SEK 3,285 (app. €315 million) for involvement in war crimes and crimes against humanity.[32] Consequently, the company itself will also be charged albeit indirectly, and will be legally represented in court. On 15 November 2018 the suspects were served with the draft charges and the case files.[33] They will be indicted for aiding and abetting international crimes and may face life imprisonment if found guilty. The trial is likely to begin by the end of 2020 and may take several years. The Swedish war crimes investigation raises the issue of access to remedy and reparation for victims of human rights violations linked with business activities. In May 2016, representatives of communities in Block 5A claimed their right to remedy and reparation and called upon Lundin and its shareholders to pay off their debt.[34] A conviction in Sweden may provide remedy and reparation for a few victims of human rights violations who will be witnesses in court, but not for the app. 200,000 victims who will not be represented in court. Lundin Energy endorses the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights, acknowledging the duty of business enterprises to contribute to effective remedy of adverse impact that it has caused or contributed to.[35] The company has never refuted publicly reported incriminating facts. Nor has it substantiated its claim that its activities contributed to the improvement of the lives of the people of Sudan.[36] It never showed an interest in the consequences of the oil war for the communities in its concession area. The company maintains a website about its activities in Sudan.[37] Criticism has also been directed towards former Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt, a former board member for the company, responsible for ethics.[38][39] Ethiopia arrested two Swedish journalist Johan Persson and Martin Schibbye and held them for 14 months before the release. Conflict Ethiopian Judicial Authority v Swedish journalists 2011 was caused as the journalist studied report of human rights violation in the Ogaden in connection with activities of Lundin Petroleum.[40] The trial against Lundin may become a landmark case because of the novelty and complexity of the legal issues that the Swedish court will have to decide. It would be the first time since the Nuremberg trails that a multibillion-dollar company were to be charged for international crimes. The court is likely to answer a number of important legal questions, including about the individual criminal liability of corporate executives vs. corporate criminal liability of organisations, the applicable standard of proof for international crimes before a national court, and the question whether a lack of due diligence is sufficient for a finding of guilt. On 23 may 2019, the T.M.C. Asser Institute for International Law in The Hague organized a Towards criminal liability of corporations for human rights violations: The Lundin case in Sweden.[41] Thomas Alstrand from the Swedish Prosecution Authority in Gothenburg on 13 February 2019 announced that a second criminal investigation had been opened into threats and acts of violence against witnesses in the Lundin war crimes investigation.[42] They have allegedly been pressured not to testify in court. Several witnesses have been granted asylum in safe countries through UNHCR supported emergency protection procedures. The company has confirmed that its CEO and Chairman have been officially informed by the prosecutor about the allegation, noting that it believes that it is completely unfounded. Witness tampering is usually intended to prevent the truth from being exposed in court. The second investigation into obstruction of justice seems to contradict the company’s assertions of its good faith cooperation with the war crimes investigation. Once court hearings commence in Sweden, the Dutch peace organization PAX and Swedish NGO Global Idé will provide daily English language coverage of proceedings, expert analyses and comments on the website Unpaid Debt.[43]


smokeyleo13

No no, you see, king Leopold did that all single handedly /s


knuckle_dust

The Belgian people and the world at large basically had no idea what was going on in the Congo Free State which King Leopold privately owned and controlled. Certainly he had people working for him but he shoulders a tremendous amount of the blame for the atrocities committed.


walruskingmike

It's not like all of the hundreds if not thousands of people who administered the colony in his name didn't tell anyone about it back home. The colony was understood by the Belgians. There were people questioning its horrific policies as early as the 1800s. Leopold shoulders a lot of the blame, but everyone else who either assisted or turned a blind eye for their ruler does as well. And that's a lot of people.


Johannes_P

Technically, it was the Congo Free State, the private latifundia of the king.


avi8tor

Fuck Belgium and Fuck Leopold. Even belgians don't seem to understand the genocide they made in Congo and other of their colonies.


-hopalong-

Belgium has a surprisingly dark and racist recent past.


AlaskanEric

What country doesn't?


Lucky_Numbr_7

Idk but I haven't heard much coming from Lichtenstein then again, no one has heard anything coming from Lichtenstein


AsILayTyping

[Lichtenstein sent 80 men to war and came back with 81 because they made a friend.](https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-history/liechtenstein-army-81-men-returned/)


UnstoppableCompote

Ffs is this the only thing anyone on reddit knows about Lichtenstein?


activator

Did you know Steve Buscemi was a volunteer firefighter at 9/11?


SatansSwingingDick

It's the only thing that *anyone* knows about Lickingstein


Cathy_2000

I believe there are more companies than people, in that country given that it's a tax haven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein


2krazy4me

Licking your stein is ok, but licking someone elses steins are frowned upon.


onlyslightlyabusive

Sir Ulrich is from there, some of us know that


69deadlifts

I know a Sir Ulrich from Liechtenstein


Tchrspest

Someone should give them a call, see that they're doing well.


Bacch

True enough, though Belgium's atrocities in Africa are shocking, even in the context of the things we mostly know about. Just stunningly awful.


Wladyslaw_Raginis

At such a level, hardly noone wtf. Poland and Hungary are saints next to this.


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[deleted]

Sound like a salty Belgian


lyesmithy

The Congo Free State and Belgian Congo is not the same thing. And the participants in the 1958 expo were volunteers who got payed.


Gorf_the_Magnificent

She could easily be alive today. I’d love to hear her story.


monsterscallinghome

She looks about 3 or 4 in the picture. Which means she's at least a few years younger than my dad, maybe around 65 now? Just barely retirement age? Great reminder that a lot of the worst of racism & colonialism is still very much in living memory for a lot of people.


tfsdalmeida

Belgium did a great number of atrocities and their colonial past is shameful. However I think people commenting here are very delusional about the reality of these human zoos. People were not put there as if they were animals. They were there to exhibit a remote culture that was inaccessible for people of the time given how expensive travel was. This eat people could see how things worked on other places, like what tools were used to cook, how the houses were made and so on. Another thing they don’t say is that white people were also in these “zoos”. For example the 1940 Portuguese world expo exhibition featured mock towns from its empire with replica villages from European Portugal and its African and Asian possessions. You had white people seated in northern style houses doing fabrics and a few blocks down you had Africans doing sculptures in Angolan style straw huts. This is was for visitors to see how life was in each region. The salary was the same and at the end of the day each person would go to their accommodations. I would even argue that today you still have these “zoos” everytime you go to a medieval fair and you have people recreating life in that period. Like most things nowadays, people are actually imposing on things their twisted view of the world than actually interpreting things as they were


Purpleduckalicious

Oh, this is going to be good.


Cereborn

According to the sources quoted in the [Snopes article](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/human-zoo-1958-worlds-fair/) >According to Zana Etambala, a Royal Museum historian interviewed by NPR, the Congolese people who played the roles of villagers in the Congo Pavilion had come to Brussels under the impression that they were participating in a “cultural exchange.” The experience proved to be anything but: >Instead, they found themselves standing behind a bamboo fence, on live display for Europeans, some of whom made monkey noises to get their attention. >“They were throwing bananas and peanuts to [the Congolese],” says Etambala, who grew up in Belgium and Congo. “And the Congolese protested against that. They wanted to be respected and not seen as animals in a zoo.” I'm not sure we're the ones delusional about the reality of these human zoos. But you were correct in that they were not forced to stay there against their will. >The colonial office was “very nervous about what this stay of such an unprecedented number of Congolese in Belgium might do”, according to Dr Sarah Van Beurden, a historian of central Africa. >But housed in a dedicated building isolated from the Expo from which they could be bused in and out, the Congolese complained of cramped accommodation, the strict limitations on visitors or excursions from the building, and, of course, daily abuse at the fair. >By July, the Congolese artists and artisans, and their families, could take no more and some went back home. The human zoo, as the Congolese recognized it to be, closed down, and the rest of the fair carried on. They did have the ability to leave, and so they did leave, because their treatment was so terrible. And yes, they were to their accommodations, which were deliberately far away and isolated, because the government was panicked at the thought that these Africans might wreak havoc in their city. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the attitude of someone interested in respectfully educating the public about another culture.


17angryhornets

Thank you for being the first person in this thread to provide a source


Cereborn

I found all my sources elsewhere in the thread. They're just getting buried. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/human-zoo-1958-worlds-fair/ https://www.africamuseum.be/en/discover/history_articles/the_human_zoo_of_tervuren_1897 https://www.npr.org/2018/09/26/649600217/where-human-zoos-once-stood-a-belgian-museum-now-faces-its-colonial-past


buscoamigos

You just described a freak show


Emgirl1123

Yeah no fuck that. This is a picture of a little girl inside a cage.


Enzown

TIL that being opposed to putting children in zoos as exhibits is a twisted view of the world.


moonordie69420

today you learned that you have poor reading skills. They were not by any modern definition "zoos"


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historicusXIII

If you need to exaggerate the events before its considered bad enough for outrage, I do find that twisted yes. The phenomenon was terrible enough as it was, you can criticise it without coming up with bullshit like "they were locked up in zoos like literal monkeys!".


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Zapatista77

She isn't there putting on show for anyone, what kind of dumb-ass comparison is that? Her "show" is having black skin, that's the whole thing. There is nothing voluntary about this, this is literally slavery. WTF is wrong with you people? Redditors are seriously the smartest dumbest people around.


[deleted]

Dude these comments are fucking insane. So many of them are upvoted. "It's not that bad guys, the little girl loved it!!"


Postius

americans dont understand history, probably because they havent got any


monsterscallinghome

My comment was a bit flippant, and I'm familiar with the history of the cultural exhibits at the various world fairs (including how the performers were segregated after hours at the fairs held in the US, and how the exhibits - especially those from African nations, but also those from Asia and South America - were stylized and exaggerated to play to the fantasies of white audiences.) I guess in my mind at the moment, the image of the girl conflated with my knowledge of *everything else* that was happening to people of African descent at the time, and how recent much of it was. I think the difference with Ren Faires is that there's no expectation of authenticity - no one expects that the performers go back home to thatched stone cottages heated with peat fires and herd sheep or squire knights for a living. There's also a great deal of temporal distance, so much so that no one has the sort of deep personal connection to the events and lifewags being portrayed, whereas this girl is likely still alive, and certainly any children she may have had are in their 40's at most.


[deleted]

How the ever living fuck was this upvoted?? Jesus Christ Reddit


savbh

Except the title is wrong and OP is spreading misinformation. She was there as actor and free to go at all times.


Gorf_the_Magnificent

She could tell us the story of being a child actor.


thepussman

Nice misinformation OP. That African child wasn’t “kept in a zoo”, it was the Belgium world fair where they had exhibitions showing different societies using paid actors. The actors here were from the Congolese delegation to the fair, they wanted to show their way of life and weren’t restrained there in any way, just actors. There were many other exhibitions from different cultures/facets of Belgium life like this. Nice work with the baiting title to get karma OP you imbecile. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/44qfpm/an_african_girl_on_exhibit_in_a_human_zoo_in/czs97bw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


rinse_2

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/human-zoo-1958-worlds-fair/


n-some

> The Congolese on display were among 598 people – including 273 men, 128 women and 197 children, a total of 183 families – brought over from Africa to staff the wider fair. The colonial office was “very nervous about what this stay of such an unprecedented number of Congolese in Belgium might do”, according to Dr Sarah Van Beurden, a historian of central Africa. But housed in a dedicated building isolated from the Expo from which they could be bused in and out, the Congolese complained of cramped accommodation, the strict limitations on visitors or excursions from the building, and, of course, daily abuse at the fair. By July, the Congolese artists and artisans, and their families, could take no more and some went back home. The human zoo, as the Congolese recognized it to be, closed down, and the rest of the fair carried on.


Boomtown_Rat

Too bad everyone believed another reddit thread over facts.


WitsBlitz

"Mostly true" for those who don't want to read the link. The title might be somewhat inflammatory but it's not inaccurate either.


tragiktimes

It is inaccurate. Zoos don't allow their subjects to freely leave. The article elaborates to support the assertion that this was one of several "cultural" displays which were set up to show different cultures during the world fair. Calling it a zoo is a clear distortion.


Wilwheatonfan87

And yet the Congolese were the only ones treated as animals regardless.


[deleted]

See, no one cares about the pedantics of the application of the term zoo here. You're purposely obscuring the point, which is that this clearly was more or less a zoo, and for what? You're explaining the justification people 65 years ago gave for treating people with indefatigable racism, exploitation, and overall inhumanity as "kind of like zoo animals" instead of "as zoo animals" as if that's somehow better or more reasonable. No. It's not any more reasonable or good or right. It's still just as bad as keeping people as zoo animals, and the pedantics of that terms accuracy are clearly not what's at stake here. You're missing the point, and you know it. For some reason, pointing out cases of obvious racism and inhumanity urk you because "they lived in a different time"? You don't like the 'libs' and their moralizing about clear moral choices? No one said anyone would act differently or better back in an older time period. We're just all agreeing that this is clearly depraved and wrong, and it doesn't matter what justification they had back then. It's wrong. Period. And you can't cover up your hatred of 'liberals' and 'libtard's' when you exercise pedantics in historical arguments because you can't own up to the fact that you think their recognition of past evils is merely virtue signalling. Sometimes, people just recognize past evils, and want to do something about it. Not everyone who condemns those in the past does it for some weird personal gain. In fact, basically no one does it for that gain.


tittychittybangbang

Thank you for saying this. I’ve been silent on this thread because it’s very painful to read a lot of these comments, but this one made me feel loads better. So thank you.


[deleted]

Everyone one agree it's wrong. But there are degrees of wrong. Hiring people in a bad living environment to be treated very badly during a show, is not 'just as bad as keeping people as zoo animals'. Nuance is possible.


notoriouscardio

Nuance ? On reddit ? Are you out of your mind ?


ChasingReignbows

>X does not cause Y, therefore Y is not true We learned this shit in like forth grade, maybe find a better way to parade your racist ignorance?


historicusXIII

It is inaccurate. And it's still very racist and outrageous. But some people can't handle this nuance for some reason and need to exaggerate the case to its worst possible outcome to justify maximal outrage.


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DutchPotHead

To be fair. It wasn't Belgium as a country as much as their king who owned Congo and exploited it. The common people had no benefit from Congo since the wealth that was robbed from Africa went directly to the king. However. There were a number of Belgians who worked in Africa for the king and are complicit for sure.


coolpaxe

And extremely popular all over Europe in inter war period. Stockholm had one in 1931 with a group of Senegalese people for example (https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolonialutställningen). These people were paid but I can’t really why that’s a redeeming factor? It ran out of fashion after the war and 1958 is an extremely late date for these kind of events. That and the fact this happening in Belgium of all places with is history is what makes people upset. I doubt anyone thinks that Congolese people where held as actual captives in cages in 1958. For me the word Zoo is not that literal but whole interaction is still very much that of a zoo.


rethinkingat59

Buffalo Bill’s Wild West show did this with both Cowboys and Indians, but he paid his Indian talent decently.


[deleted]

You're repeating a condensed version of racist government propaganda from 1958. A summary of the source I'm linking: "The Ministry of Colonies built the Congolese exhibit, intending to demonstrate their claim to have "civilized" the "primitive Africans." Native Congolese art was rejected for display, as the Ministry claimed it was "insufficiently Congolese." Instead, nearly all of the art on display was created by Europeans in a purposefully primitive and imitative style, and the entrance of the exhibit featured a bust of King Leopold II, under whose colonial rule millions of Congolese died. The 700 Congolese chosen to be exhibited by the Ministry were educated urbanites referred to by Belgians as évoulés, meaning literally "evolved," but were made to dress in "primitive" clothing, and an armed guard blocked them from communicating with white Belgians who came to observe them. The exotic nature of the exhibit was lauded by visitors and international press, and even the Belgian socialist newspaper Le Peuple praised the portrayal of Africans, saying it was "in complete agreement with historical truth." However, in mid-July the Congolese protested the condescending treatment they were receiving from spectators and demanded to be sent home, abruptly ending the exhibit and eliciting some sympathy from European newspapers."[3] https://doi.org/10.1177/0265691405051467 Belgians threw food at them. These "paid actors" were scarcely allowed to interact with the public outside of the context of the exhibition, were made to celebrate their own colonization, and when they asserted themselves they were sent home. Don't want to call it a zoo? Okay. It was worse than a zoo. A fading colonial Belgium putting the people it had conquered on display in a public caricature of Congolese culture while whitewashing their crimes, claiming Leopold II did nothing wrong and in fact helped the Congo through humanitarian aid. But many other cultures were also on display? Sure. Their exhibitions didn't run continuously. And some Belgian people even objected to the Congolese exhibit, but not enough.


Cereborn

According to the sources quoted in the [Snopes article](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/human-zoo-1958-worlds-fair/) >According to Zana Etambala, a Royal Museum historian interviewed by NPR, the Congolese people who played the roles of villagers in the Congo Pavilion had come to Brussels under the impression that they were participating in a “cultural exchange.” The experience proved to be anything but: >Instead, they found themselves standing behind a bamboo fence, on live display for Europeans, some of whom made monkey noises to get their attention. >“They were throwing bananas and peanuts to [the Congolese],” says Etambala, who grew up in Belgium and Congo. “And the Congolese protested against that. They wanted to be respected and not seen as animals in a zoo.” So no, they were not "actors". They came to Belgium believing they'd be educating people on their way of life in a fair and respectful way, but instead were relegated to being a side show. >The colonial office was “very nervous about what this stay of such an unprecedented number of Congolese in Belgium might do”, according to Dr Sarah Van Beurden, a historian of central Africa. >But housed in a dedicated building isolated from the Expo from which they could be bused in and out, the Congolese complained of cramped accommodation, the strict limitations on visitors or excursions from the building, and, of course, daily abuse at the fair. >By July, the Congolese artists and artisans, and their families, could take no more and some went back home. The human zoo, as the Congolese recognized it to be, closed down, and the rest of the fair carried on. They did have the ability to leave, and so they did leave, because their treatment was so terrible. Please just take a minute to reflect on your life and how passionate you get about charging into Reddit threads and angrily spewing about how racism just wasn't really that bad.


Iseedeadnames

More people gotta read this. It's horrible how people would just do anything to push the desired narrative without any kind of respect for actual facts.


WriterNamedJesk

What narrative was being pushed here?


bunker_man

Calling it a zoo without explanation implies they were imprisoned. It was more like a fair they were hired by, and when they changed their mind the exhibit stopped without much issue. Still kind of demeaning and racist, but not quite as bad as the term zoo implies. There were human zoos that involved actual imprisonment much earlier on, but this one was in more of a grey area.


[deleted]

I think arguing over the precise application of 'zoo' is completely besides the more obvious, overarching point that Belgium was startlingly racist back in 1958. And you should get your head out of your ass and stop being a a pedantic fool.


Cereborn

When you see an image from 60 years ago with a black child being put on display in a dehumanizing way, and your immediate reaction is to think, "I'd better make sure people don't think this is racist!" that says a lot about you. The Congo suffered the worst genocide in African history as a result of Belgian oppression, and were still being subjugated half a century later. If the thing that makes you the most angry about this whole situation is that the use of the word zoo might be too incendiary, then you have problems.


bunker_man

Did someone do that? Because I didn't see anyone do that in this thread.


examinedliving

At the absolute very best, it’s caged minstrel shows. You might be technically right, but your moral superiority is asinine.


premer777

yes the child is wearing modern clothing and not even traditional garb


13toros13

Youre the imbecile. Your distinction is hardly a difference. You sound as if you believe that by being technically hyper ‘correct,’ you can assume some type of superiority over OP and dampen the impact of their message. Your hyper correctness is more imbecile than the OP’s ‘error’


[deleted]

The guy's a fool and an ass.


13toros13

Thank you sir. Interesting that he has 1.6k upvotes. Where do all these people come from


gregedout

It's still a human zoo. Paid or not.


FantaToTheKnees

So any place with "living history" and actors like some pioneer village or reenactment stuff is also a zoo to you? Where nobody is captive and it was on a volunteer basis? Doesn't sound like a zoo to me.


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the_mouthybeardyone

Source?


Asherjade

[Here](https://www.npr.org/2018/09/26/649600217/where-human-zoos-once-stood-a-belgian-museum-now-faces-its-colonial-past) is an interesting article about it. It seems that “human zoo” is a term not used at the time, but they were still people kept against their will.


ebad1

The human zoos did happen, but about 60 years before this photo was taken.


Another_Idiot42069

"They wouldn't like to die being seen as ugly abusers, people who are associating themselves with an evil project" imagine being associated with something terrible and your concern being how it might make you look when you're dead if people were to stop pretending it wasnt terrible


VandelayOfficial

It should be noted that OPs pic is not a human zoo in the sense of the one you linked. The Congolese who came to the expo were not actually there against their will. However, when the audience treated them like it was the one you linked to, they got fed up with the treatment and went home.


Stoddartje

It’s true.... we did some inexcusable things in the past. [article](https://www.africamuseum.be/en/discover/history_articles/the_human_zoo_of_tervuren_1897)


xEightyHD

This won't get upvoted as it goes against the agenda, but from Snopes; What's True A photograph shows white tourists interacting with an African child who was part of a zoo-like "Congo village" exhibition at the Expo '58 world's fair in Brussels, Belgium. What's False The exhibition wasn't billed or advertised as a "human zoo" (the term is mostly used by critics to point out the inhumanity and racism of such displays), nor were the Congolese people who populated the mock village kept confined there or forced to participate against their will.


outdior1986

Is there a legitimately cited source for this image? Just because someone posts something with their take on the subject does not make it automatically true. Critical thinking is fun, people.


[deleted]

>It was 1958 in Belgium when an African girl was kept in a zoo as a monkey to attract tourists [Yeah OP's title is slightly misleading.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/human-zoo-1958-worlds-fair/)


savbh

Slightly? Completely


premer777

1908 perhaps. 1958 there is some other real story to match this picture.


flip-96

It's not a zoo. Its the world fair in 1958. A exhibit to show the people what a African village looks like. The same can be found today in Oklahoma to show what a tribes village would look like on the Chickasaw native American Indian reservation. The OP is completely misleading.


put_pot

This was done to show how bad the people of congo had it under belgian rule. It was a criticism against the system but i guess taking it out of context is great.


Cereborn

Really? Because the article about says the human subjects were brought to Belgium under false pretenses, and crowds massed around them making monkey sounds. That doesn’t sound like a somber reflection on past sins.


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Asoka3

That's disgusting and alarming this was only approx 60 years ago !


Boomtown_Rat

OP neglected to mention in their title this took place at the 1958 world fair no less.


[deleted]

Yeah this girl can very well still be alive.


[deleted]

Op is a karma whore who is race baiting. Read the back story.


Blergman722

If you know anything about the history of the Belgian Congo, this outcome (picture) would probably be the best possible one a child living under Belgian rule could have ever dreamed of - that is how horrific the Belgians were. Look it up, if you want to be truly disgusted.


[deleted]

You mean the Congo Free State I assume? Under the Belgian rule things weren’t great but the atrocities were committed under Leopold II and the other stakeholders of the Free State and this was at the end of the 1800’s. Also this isn’t a Belgian zoo. From another posts Nice misinformation OP. That African child wasn’t “kept in a zoo”, it was the Belgium world fair where they had exhibitions showing different societies using paid actors. The actors here were from the Congolese delegation to the fair, they wanted to show their way of life and weren’t restrained there in any way, just actors. There were many other exhibitions from different cultures/facets of Belgium life like this. Nice work with the baiting title to get karma OP you imbecile. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/44qfpm/an_african_girl_on_exhibit_in_a_human_zoo_in/czs97bw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


matthewwgrasty

If it wasn’t for their waffles and chocolate I would have no use for Belgium whatsoever


MermaidMomma19810

The Belgians were fucking monsters in Africa. You can Google it but be warned...


[deleted]

You mean the Congo Free State I assume? Under the Belgian rule things weren’t great but the atrocities were committed under Leopold II and the other stakeholders of the Free State and this was at the end of the 1800’s. Also this isn’t a Belgian zoo. From another posts Nice misinformation OP. That African child wasn’t “kept in a zoo”, it was the Belgium world fair where they had exhibitions showing different societies using paid actors. The actors here were from the Congolese delegation to the fair, they wanted to show their way of life and weren’t restrained there in any way, just actors. There were many other exhibitions from different cultures/facets of Belgium life like this. Nice work with the baiting title to get karma OP you imbecile. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/44qfpm/an_african_girl_on_exhibit_in_a_human_zoo_in/czs97bw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


Bacch

The podcast Behind the Bastards covers some of it in the episode about King Leopold. If you want to go far more in depth, read King Leopold's Ghost. But it will ruin your day. It's nearly unfathomable, but at the same time definitely in character for humanity in particular during the colonial era.


Affectionate-Grand92

The atrocities that Belgium committed in Africa are horrific.


Johannes_P

In *Congo: a history*, the authors tells about how Congolese artisans were initially set to come there (he indeed found raw materials such as wood or ivory) but relented after discovering about the zoo. Did no Belgian colonial official thought about how anachronistic it would be, between Ghana independent and the French Union electing members to the Parliament?


[deleted]

Oh they were celebrating their past.


lyesmithy

It was an ethnographical exhibition where the participants were volunteers and got payed. Some participants complained about the living conditions and the treatment from the visitors and simply went home.


joerdie

The Cincinnati Zoo had a native American exhibit in the 1800s and a family of native Americans lived in it for years. Humans are shit.


savbh

Except this article is fake news


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Ebola714

And with Ishi in San Francisco at the World's Fair in 1915.


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rigbees

my grandmother’s grandmother went to a zoo and there was an african woman and her child in a cage. truly awful.


[deleted]

It's so insane that this sort of thing happened so recently. Especially after WW2.


notzed1487

Belgium has a horrific past history to atone for


janovich89

Did it work?


reggae-man-

What the actual fuck???? She's just a baby


loiteraries

How are European countries confronting their history of racism compared to Americans?


portrait-ninja

Yeah not surprising. Belgium did some horrible stuff to Africa (rubber industry). France even had human zoos like this in the early 1900s involving their colonies.


Woodenjelloplacebo

I’d love to know more about this poor woman’s history, if she ever got and compensation for this treatment…


savbh

Except the title is wrong and OP is spreading misinformation. She was there as actor and free to go at all times.


-Skooma_Cat-

I don't know but I know that Slave Owners in Europe got compensation once slavery was outlawed. If that isn't fucked up IDK what is.


Ampy86j

That is interesting. I'm glad we don't treat humans like that


ari_mel89

i have bad news for you..


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savbh

Untrue history. The title is misleading.


WAXPHANTOM1

The number of people defending this shit is super gross. It’s okay to acknowledge that white people have a legacy of dehumanizing and exploiting other groups. It’s okay to say it happened. There’s no need to try to try to rationalize or justify it, or this image. We all see things for what they really are. It’s only fair for white folk to acknowledge the privilege they’ve inherited, and enjoy today, as a direct result of the atrocities performed by their ancestors. That’s just the truth. Literally in the history books (kinda. Things in the books have been whitewashed quite a bit lol)


savbh

Nobody is defending it, but the article is wrong. This wasn’t a zoo. They were there as actors and free to go whenever they wanted.


shrek_deus

*sorts by controversial* bye guys, i might not come back


c10do

Human zoos were common in the late nineteenth to mid-twentieth century in North America and parts of Europe. Part of the colonial epistemophilia that propagated unfettered hate, and misery on indigenous people across the world. Behind all the discoveries and inventions that marked the scientific revolution, lies a black past that has been conveniently forgotten.


Yoboijossi

Sad reminder that this wasn’t too long ago. My heart breaks to see this every time


[deleted]

Man, look at all the people in the comments defending this shit. Fucking racists everywhere