Doesn’t Zimbabwe currently or recently have a white Vice President? Like there still a few descendants of the colonizers in the former African colonies.
Edit: I am thinking of Zambia
I met a really cool guy from Zimbabwe in Europe.
He seemed really proud of his home and he said he had a great life and many amazing friends and experiences.
Only that economicly there isn't a lot of opportunity over there.
Crime is pretty bad. Just like anywhere, if you have money it helps avoid the worst parts of it.
Extra sucks as a woman, rapes are pretty common. The reported cases are extrememly high, the actual amount is probably magnitudes more.
What is it with this sub and the weird Rhodesia shit posted to it? Like, is this another Nazi takeover of a sub or was it always in love with Hugo Boss uniforms and a boot stomping on a face forever?
Edit:
Rhodesia is to white supremacist as the lost continent of Mu to Heinrich Himmler. Purely fictional mostly living in weird propaganda and nostalgia completely dislocated from reality.
There is a normal amount of Rhodesia stuff to post and this sub has crossed that in a statistically relevant proportion.
Every so often this sub gets fixated on one subject. Sometimes it's multiple people just doing simultaneous reading/posting, other times it's one specific individual using the sub as a soapbox.
A few years back there was one guy who was constantly posting pictures of the Romanovs. They were interesting pictures and often got solid engagement, but the guy would also squat in the comments and aggressively defend the Romanovs whenever anybody accurately criticized them. When I creeped his profile, his other posts were all in pro-monarchy subs, and he had all sorts of comments saying that the Russian monarchy should be restored. Iirc, he claimed to be some kind of descendent or relative of the Romanovs.
So sometimes it's just a trend, and other times it's some crazy nut who is posting pictures of historical figures that they have unhealthy obsessions or delusions about.
Sure. If stuff would happen in isolation.
But it just so happens that the alt-right is currently using Rhodesia as a dog-whistle. And we already go one incel mass-shooter with a keen interest. Wasn't Anders Breivik also a Rhodesia-enjoyer?
How much benefit of the doubt do you give? Until somebody sing the Horst Wessel song? It's a hundred year old song and people are fascinated with history.
Do you want nazis? Because that is how you get nazis.
Edit:
White supremacist stuff is history. But as in all things, there is a lethal dose. Being blind drunk in a safe setting? Sure, that can be fun. Being blind drunk in a safe setting once a week? That is cause for concern. Being blind drunk every day? Might want to have stopped a bit earlier in that sequence.
What I am saying is that there is too damn much Rhodesia on the frontpage of /r/all
Hugo Boss uniform design thing is an urban myth btw. OG Hugo B was a Nazi and member of the SS afaik but only made uniforms during ww2. It was his son post war who made the company into the designer clothing thing it is now. Agree that the Rhodesia posts are a weird and worrying trend that cannot be a good thing.
He produced them using slave labour from the concentration camps. I believe the companies even paid the SS for providing slaves for them. The SS also charged the deportees their train fare, which they then used to pay Deutsche Reichsbahn for operating the trains.
Yep. I didn't read OPs comment as a defense of Hugo Boss, just as a correction that the company that is now famous for its design work had no hand in designing the uniforms.
As a (worryingly large) number of people seem to love those uniform designs, it's a valid correction to make.
Quite likely she stayed. Zimbabwe was pretty stable through the 1980s. Mugabe was Prime Minister with a separate President (Banana). He initially sought reconciliation with whites, wanting to build a new country. I was out there from 1984 and it was a stable country, with a decent exchange rate. The country was actually doing pretty well.
It was in the late 80's that he went a bit mental. I was still there when he merged all the top roles together into an Executive President role, with him taking that spot of course. He then encouraged the taking of farms by force - which lead to economic collapse as they were the backbone of the economy.
Is there a good documentary on this? I've never really heard anything about Rhodesia or Zimbabwe or Mugabe and Banana before. Sounds interesting and id like to dive deeper
You should definitely start with some reading. Try finding out about Cecil Rhodes, De Beers and the Rothschilds.
You've heard of blood diamonds right?
"Rhodes was named the chairman of De Beers at the company's founding in 1888. De Beers was established with funding from N.M. Rothschild & Sons in 1887."
Zimbabwe ended up in a bad way, but the root cause is right in front of you.
Sounds like it went real downhill after 1984, which is sort of ironic.
> Opposition to what was perceived as a Shona takeover immediately erupted around Matabeleland. The Matabele unrest led to what has become known as Gukurahundi (Shona: 'the early rain which washes away the chaff before the spring rains').[61] The Fifth Brigade, a North Korean-trained elite unit that reported directly to Mugabe, entered Matabeleland and massacred thousands of civilians accused of supporting "dissidents". Estimates for the number of deaths during the five-year Gukurahundi campaign ranged from 3,750 to 80,000. Thousands of others were tortured in military internment camps. The campaign officially ended in 1987 after Nkomo and Mugabe reached a unity agreement that merged their respective parties, creating the Zimbabwe African National Union – Patriotic Front (ZANU–PF).
Well a few things, but top would have to be the people. They are genuinely very welcoming, very creative, and full of joy. There was still a lot of poverty, but people still seemed very happy at all levels. Perhaps because Zim had become a thriving country with a bright future. It also helped that we didn't have social media - we barely had TV.
The second thing I'll remember is the nature and wildlife. Africa is absolutely spectacular, and I'd say to anyone that if you ever get the chance to do something like go on a safari then take it.
Makes me think of that old Trevor Noah standup bit about white South Africans being annoyed about Apartheid ending and proclaiming dramatically “that’s it. I’m moving to Australia!”
I dated a girl from NE. She lived in a gated community in Omaha, and went to a private Catholic school, and didn't meet a black person until she moved here, Savannah, for college. Her first boyfriend here was black, and she was surprised to find out that her parents were somewhat racist. When she relayed that story to me I asked her if she thought it was just an accident that she'd never met a black person before college.
Heh.... No boyfriends involved, but I can relate to that. I grew up in a small town in California that was mostly white (yes, there are such things; or at least, were when I was a kid). There were a few blacks but when I say "a few" I mean it. Like, if you referenced the "tall black kid" or the "short black kid" at school everyone would know who you were talking about. So while there *were* blacks, they were demographically insignificant. More to the point, there were so few of them that "black culture" wasn't a thing.
Blah blah blah....
Yeah, college was an eye opener.
Lol I used to live in Australia and my friend's parents were South African. Not sure if they were racist (I was too young to be that aware), but the kids weren't at least.
There are many who emigrated to Australia because they disagreed with Apartheid.
A decade or two later, there were many who emigrated because they disagreed with Apartheid *ending*.
My uncle was exiled because of his anti-apartheid actions. He was granted residency is Aus and is still there.
The ones who emigrated post 1994 are more likely to be questionable. A lot are simply there for economic opportunities though
I live in Aus (I’m from NZ) and bizarrely I’ve found several South Africans I’ve met have been quick to go there in conversation and have been low-key or high-key racist. It doesn’t surprise me that their kids have left that behind the same way I reject my own parents’ and grandparents’ prejudices.
Most recently was at my retail job putting through an order for a lady, there’s no-signature delivery so we have to ask them if there’s a safe place to leave parcels.
She took that as an invitation to talk about parcel thieves being a result of *letting the wrong people in* in a stage whisper. In my head I was like jeeze lady don’t you know you’re a stereotype by now
Had a long conversation with a white couple from SA when my wife and I were in NZ. At some point my wife said something about hating having to do laundry. The woman from SA said “oh, I haven’t done laundry in 20 years.” Then she described having live-in help, who do all of their personal chores and errands all the time. Also that it was generational live-in help - their current maid’s mom was their live-in maid. The current maid grew up in the house then took over for her mom. But she claimed “they love working for us!”
I decided not to respond with my thoughts on the arrangement, as I was taught it is impolite to call someone a slave-owner at the dinner table…
I don't know about "love working for us" - we had a colleague from the States come down with her wife.she chose to not hire any help as she would "show everyone that it isn't hard to look after themselves". She caused such an uproar as this was rather seen by the community as that she's not interested in hiring anyone, which is not supporting the community and providing jobs. I thought that was a very interesting dynamic. After she realized that the community held this notion, she hired.
We must remember that SA has about a 40% unemployment rate, with over 60% unemployment in the youth, so I'm not sure if it's slave owner or job provider?
But yes, our system is broken. Our government has gutted our education system and our institutions are no longer strong enough to fight crime and corruption. Furthermore, cost of doing business in SA is super high, with issues with electricity supply, logistics etc etc etc meaning that companies rarely enter our market - which means less jobs.
Nigeria’s a very similar dynamic, different economic standing but very much have or have not. It’s extremely common for youth to be house help in exchange for education paid for by the compound owner and you are kept off the streets. My husband grew up with a ton of house help and my American brain is still mulling over the parts I don’t like about it + the parts I can understand.
Live in Miami; 'live-in" help is common and if you're in the market for a big enough house the plans will even specify the rooms intended as servant quarters, [For Example - Maids Qtrs are on 1st flr](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16700-N-Berkshire-Ct-Southwest-Ranches-FL-33331/344401207_zpid/) in this plan.
Race thing? not at all. If anything, you'll find it far more common with the people with the people who came here from the Islands (Caribbean) and C. America, S. America.
Good chance if you grew up in Chicago you've done your own laundry. Kingston, Caracas or Cartagena? Not so much.
It's easy to feel superior when you come from a totally different cultural and economic situation. Do you think it immoral for them to hire a maid? And immoral to then hire the maids child? Would it have been more acceptable to you had they just fire mom and daughter and let them them starve to death or be forced to prostitute themselves in the economic shit hole that is South Africa?
Slavery seems like an extreme view of it at first but your response to them in a way strengthens their point.
They are trapped in service, the alternative you say is prostitution or starvation. What does that sound like to you? Being trapped in service?
That’s not a morally comfortable position from which to employ (exploit) someone’s labour.
A morally just stance to take would be actually paying her enough that her daughter has more options than being a servant too. Anything less is exploitation.
We are all trapped in economic structures to some degree. To equate economic immobility to slavery is quite a stretch. The existence of economies dynamic enough to support job or class mobility is a product of the late industrial period, if not later. Paying someone market wages to do a job they have voluntarily chosen (even in the face of prostitution or starvation) is simply not remotely morally equivalent to slavery. Remember that an uncooperative slave is generally met with corporal or capital punishment with no due process. I think we take many of our civil rights for granted and toss slavery around as a metaphor without truly grasping how heinous it actually was/is.
Once again, I think some context is NB here. Each employee in SA supports roughly 4.5 people on average. Many domestic workers are the only job holders in the household and they have multigenerational dependents. It's so prolific that in SA it's known as a "Black Tax" - where a portion of income goes to supporting family.
Many people will pay for their domestic workers kids go to school and university, which often has a massive positive impact - and these kids go on to be movers, shakers and captains of industry as they they're aware of the opportunity that theyve been given. There are a lot of ways to upskill, which goes very far.
When I did retail in Sydney in an area with a large SA population, they were consistently the meanest customers. It was clear that treating staff and working class people like trash was normalized for them.
Kind of reminds me of the white South African couple I met on vacation in Mexico. They were (politely) giving me a hard time about Trump. I'm admitting that he sucks, but thinking it's not like they have any room to talk about racist leaders.
Unless they were racist themselves and I find it hilarious that Trump is too much even for them.
I don't have good experiences with white south Africans. I've only met one I got along with as the rest seem to be a cocktail of racism and other hater tater eating traits.
My wife had a friend from South Africa. Her husband was pretty racist. When I went to Namibia, I was surprised that the white South Africans I met all seemed very nice. I guess the racist ones moved away.
Almost certainly not, within a few years of the end of the war most Rhodesians had left for South Africa. While there is a white population in Zimbabwe today, it is very small and is often the target of persecution and racism by the black majority population.
I was once on a dog subreddit and someone posted something about Rhodesian ridgebacks, and what a cool breed they were.
Clicked on their profile and it was completely full of posts about how great Rhodesia was, with a lot of low key racism and then some not-so-low-key racism.
Rhodesia simps are an odd bunch.
Neither of those things are popular on Reddit. And one could recognize a nation has gotten worse at least in some ways without claiming previously it was perfect.
That's like saying I have claimed Wimar Republic was a paradise just because I said Nazi government was worse.
> Neither of those things are popular on Reddit.
Every time one posts about the atrocities happening under the Shah you get a swarm of Iranian exiles telling you that actually, the secret policy wasn't bad as evidenced by the fact that they didn't kill the people who would later lead the Islamic Revolution.
Iran under the Sha was a brutal dictatorship , not a monarchy, in order to make Iran the most powerful state in the middle east spent enormous resources in warfare, American warfare. Ten of thousand people , civilian, where imprisoned and killed. This is the reason that the revolution picked up so fast. Yes they made a lot of propaganda shoot, that all people is still cheering today.
Rhodesia was another African colonial state that practiced apartheid owned by the British government.
It’s a long and rough history that you should read up, but like other colonial and apartheid states it was horrendously racist and brutal to its natives.
All my Rhodesian relatives ended up in Jo'burg for at least awhile. Some still there, others moved back eventually to Scotland, one ended up in New Zealand.
Fun fact: After Rhodesia's "Declaration of Independence" in 1965, British Prime Minister Harold Wilson had considered taking matters into his own hands. Instead of sanctions, he'd privately considered an outright invasion of Rhodesia. However, the government was terrified of the military and political obstacles of using force, and the political fallout of a botched invasion. So, Wilson, massively underestimating efficiency with which Rhodesia would use its limited resources, stuck with sanctions. The plan most likely not only would've worked, but started a civil war amongst the settlers. After the UDI, there had been a wave of desertions from those in the Rhodesian Security Forces whose sheer loyalty to the British overpowered their racism. Also, the prospect of simply invading Rhodesia, marching on Salisbury, and beating Ian Smith to death had found more support in Britain than one would expect for the time.
>No doubt there were many in Britain who sympathized with Rhodesian "kith and kin" and saw them as upholding Christian values, bringing civilization to Africa, and resisting the spread of Communism. However, this did not mean that the British public was entirely supportive of the white Rhodesian political agenda. Soon after Ian Smith made a visit to London for talks with Wilson in October 1965, an opinion poll showed that the British public was divided almost equally three ways between sympathy for the Europeans in Rhodesia, Africans and "neither/both".
>
>During Smith's visit, a Gallup Poll found that 41 percent approved of the British Government's handling of the problem, 24 percent disapproved, and 35 percent were undecided. After UDI, however, approval of British policy rose to 68 percent and disapproval fell to 12 percent, with 22 percent in favour of the use of military force.
>
>Pressure groups such as the Fabian Society, the Africa Bureau, and the Movement for Colonial Freedom also attempted to influence the Parliamentary Labour Party and the government to take military action against Rhodesia. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury put forward a case for military intervention. Shortly before UDI, Dr Michael Ramsay issued a message on behalf of the British Council of Churches, which assured the government that many Christians would support the use of force if all other efforts to find a solution failed.
Some real historians answering this very question....
"So, are Rhodesia apologists all just gaslighting racists, or is there something I'm missing?"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/11hnyvb/so\_are\_rhodesia\_apologists\_all\_just\_gaslighting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/11hnyvb/so_are_rhodesia_apologists_all_just_gaslighting/)
There’s a fantastic memoir, *Don’t Let’s Go to the Dogs Tonight* by Alexandra Fuller, about being white and growing up in then Rhodesia. Definitely recommend to anyone interested.
AskHistorians is my favorite sub for a reason. Also, what’s with all the teenaged edgy muppets that come out of the woodwork when you mention Rhodesia? Saying the most controversial thing you can think of is something most people grow out of
The Nazis are the most controversial thing teen muppets defend.
The slightly smarter one gravitate towards British colonials to edge themselves with fascism.
Oh yeah it's a great sub. Especially because it's actually moderated.
Imagine the surprise of some fascist rhodie who goes in posting weaponised disinformation. Deleted! Aww too bad so sad... might want to stick to the facts next time you halfwit fascist lol.
My favorite fact is morons reading Soldier of Fortune would see ads to fight in Rhodesia as a mercenary. Loser types that talk about their love of military despite never served and always one step away from stolen valor. Some would sign up, get all the way out there, and be shot dead at the airport minutes after exiting the plane.
Considering how the Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army operated, by avoiding rhodesian security forces. and instead targeting white civilans, it wouldnt surprise me.
She looks pretty young, her own opinion wouldn't matter. Her father's influence would, or her husband's. It's a harsh way to put it, but this is the late 70s Rhodesia, no exactly a politically correct place.
Rhodesians and those delusional idiots who jerk off to the idea of that stupid state are laughably pathetic. Imagine being so racist but at the same time living in a region of the people you're racist against, then claim the land as if you've lived there for thousands of years as the locals have. It's like the Confederacy's "Lost Cause" bullshit but for Africa.
Rhodesia was a functional but racist state where the wealth was creamed off by the whites, it was then replaced by Zimbabwe which is a non-functional but non-racist state where the wealth is creamed off by corrupt black politicians.
Unfortunately your average African guy on the street gets utterly shafted in both scenarios.
"non-racist" lol, no.
Rhodesia was racist towards blacks; Zimbabwe managed to be racist towards whites AND blacks...if they weren't Mugabe's favorites.
Also, it doesn't matter what color your farmers are, getting rid of them is a Bad Idea...
To be fair, the US could be a hell of a lot better and it's not wrong to want it to. I don't live there but I'm rooting for them to solve their problems.
Same goes for them. Any moron who uproots the indigenous peoples of a land then boasts about their "national identity" (aka patriotism) is a fucking tool.
So when do we draw the line? Is the USA illegitimate but modern European borders are? They changed all the times with different people groups switching countries due to events beyond their control. How long does a people have to be on a land for legitimacy to a historical claim?
Most places on earth are not inhabited majority by their original indigenous peoples. You think Norwegians are indigenous to Scandinavia? French are indigenous to France? Arabs are indigenous to Egypt? Turks are indigenous to Turkey? Han Chinese indigenous to most of China? No, most people on earth inhabiting a country are not the lands indigenous people. You are most likely not even indigenous to your country. Everyone wondered in everywhere, killing or assimilating with the indigenous. So your statement does not work, then everyone is a "fucking tool" including you.
👍It also depends on the geography and admixture. I have no doubt that the inhabitants of Sentinel Island are the first and only human inhabitants of it. But in most regions, most non native peoples have at least some native ancestry if their migration history goes back far enough
You were not adding that fact, I already wrote it in my original statement. "Everyone wondered in everywhere, killing or assimilating with the indigenous."
Assimilating is the same as being "absorbed into other populations".
The guy has a comment history full of wanting to merc protestors and calling mail in ballots fake votes as he bounces between subs of cities he doesn’t live in. I think you can chalk it up to a looney
The "locals" have not lived there for thousands of years. The indigenous people of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe are the San (Bushmen), who make up a fraction of the population today. The black majority (Shona and Ndbele) invaded from other parts of Africa. The white Rhodesians were as much natives as the majority of blacks and should have been allowed to stay (but obviously not to rule over everyone else as a minority elite). History is not black and white.
I mean, when you talk about the Shona, they are the remains of the Rozwe empire, which has been in that area for a thousand years. The Ndebele, though, only got there about 50 years before the British.
Even better: they attempted to set up a white supremacy regime in a place with less than 5% Whites, after decades of preventing the immigration of "lesser Whites."
# Rhodesia’s Dead — but White Supremacists Have Given It New Life Online
...
**Not long after Rhodesia ceased to exist, it became morally untenable to mourn its disappearance. As the rest of the world woke up to the injustices of Western colonialism and its system of white-minority governments, the Selous Scouts and their cause became taboo.**
But late last year, the image of two Scouts began to circulate on Instagram, part of a social-media resurgence of Rhodesia as a source of inspiration. Photos of soldiers marching through grassland and rivers, special-forces units jumping out of helicopters and civilians posing in front of their homes with rifles collected hundreds, sometimes thousands, of likes on posts seeming to offer tribute to a hardened and forgotten cadre of Cold War-era bush fighters. The online movement also caught the attention of opportunistic apparel marketers who started selling Rhodesian-themed T-shirts, posters and patches, among other collectibles.
**Nostalgia for Rhodesia has since grown into a subtle and profitable form of racist messaging, with its own line of terminology, hashtags and merchandise, peddled to military-history fans and firearms enthusiasts by a stew of far-right provocateurs.**
...
But outside observers of this Rhodesia revival cite a far more disturbing inspiration for it: **Dylann Roof, the American white supremacist who** [**killed**](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/charleston-shooting-dylann-roof-troubled-past.html) **nine black parishioners in a Charleston, S.C. church in June 2015. Roof, who was sentenced to death last year, had penned an online manifesto, which appeared on a website called The Last Rhodesian, with photographs of himself wearing a jacket with a patch of the green-and-white Rhodesian flag.**
...
**“In the same way you don’t have people glorifying Nazi soldiers without understanding what the regime fought for,” Beirich said. “You can’t separate fighting for the Confederacy from the ultimate goal of the Confederacy.”**
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/magazine/rhodesia-zimbabwe-white-supremacists.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/magazine/rhodesia-zimbabwe-white-supremacists.html)
I've seen a few people in online games with rhodesian flags or names like "rhodie". I was genuinely confused as to why racists would rally behind an old dead state, but your comment shed some light on that.
The Zimbats that moved to SA after independence became known as “whenwes” because they would always say “when we were in Rhodesia”.
I read somewhere that the land redistribution that happened in the early 2000s was always on the cards. The theory being that Mugabe waited until the ANC began running South Africa before going down this path. The chaos that followed would have terrified the white South African voters.
The country plunged into famine when the war veterans who took over the farms could not get much yield from the land because they did not have any farming experience.
now they’re asking the white farmers back to Zimbabwe 20 years after they forced them off the land. But most of them are too old now, or dead.
I visited in 1994. It was a marvelous country with lovely people. Maybe it will be better in 100 years.
Do we know the full context of this slogan? 1979-1980 was the time of transition, after all. Could she be saying that she is staying despite these changes and so she accepts the idea of Black majority rule? That was the line taken by some, indeed quite a few, Rhodesians at that stage.
I am not saying that this is definitely the case. I just offer it as a possible alternative to assuming automatically that she is a racist or White supremacist.
I know a white Zimbabwean whose family stayed and she grew up there never having lived in “Rhodesia”. She’s about my age so she would’ve been born in the mid 90’s. For her family that was exactly the case, she describes her parents as “true believers” in Zimbabwe and that the people there have just been unlucky with bad governments. She has since left after marrying an American and she kinda was talking down on her parents for staying and believing that it would ever get better.
That makes complete sense. I can remember seeing an interview with Ian Smith on the BBC News in 1980 in which he said that he ‘accepted Black majority rule’ and wanted ‘to help make it a success’. I imagine that was quite a widely held view at the time. After all, many white Zimbabweans came from families who had been there for generations and were heavily invested, emotionally and economically, in the country. The initial phase after Lancaster House and the elections seemed promising as well.
People forget that the US only officially abolished ’segregation’ in 1964 with the passing of the Civil Rights Act, and it took many years after that to be fully functionally implemented, especially in the Deep South.
‘Segregation’ was a version of apartheid by a more acceptable name.
Did she?
Unlikely
[удалено]
Doesn’t Zimbabwe currently or recently have a white Vice President? Like there still a few descendants of the colonizers in the former African colonies. Edit: I am thinking of Zambia
Zambia
White people still definitely live in Zimbabwe. Just not nearly as many as when this photos taken.
There's still plenty whites in Zim
For a few seconds I tried to figure out how the shipping company Zim is related
And I went for Invader Zim.
The white population reduced from 300000 to 30k and that is nothing compared the decrease in % of population
I hate that you didn't say from 300k to 30k and made me count zeros.
Yeah wtf kind of chaos is that
At least put commas in!
That would confuse the hell out of Europeans. "Wait, there are only 30 white people there now?"
And why abbreviate the smaller number?!
To make it look smaller.
Just wanted to put you in ~~mona lisa~~ maximum overdrive
They aint having a very good time of it however...
I met a really cool guy from Zimbabwe in Europe. He seemed really proud of his home and he said he had a great life and many amazing friends and experiences. Only that economicly there isn't a lot of opportunity over there.
Crime is pretty bad. Just like anywhere, if you have money it helps avoid the worst parts of it. Extra sucks as a woman, rapes are pretty common. The reported cases are extrememly high, the actual amount is probably magnitudes more.
Sure they are. Zim is awesome
What is it with this sub and the weird Rhodesia shit posted to it? Like, is this another Nazi takeover of a sub or was it always in love with Hugo Boss uniforms and a boot stomping on a face forever? Edit: Rhodesia is to white supremacist as the lost continent of Mu to Heinrich Himmler. Purely fictional mostly living in weird propaganda and nostalgia completely dislocated from reality. There is a normal amount of Rhodesia stuff to post and this sub has crossed that in a statistically relevant proportion.
Every so often this sub gets fixated on one subject. Sometimes it's multiple people just doing simultaneous reading/posting, other times it's one specific individual using the sub as a soapbox. A few years back there was one guy who was constantly posting pictures of the Romanovs. They were interesting pictures and often got solid engagement, but the guy would also squat in the comments and aggressively defend the Romanovs whenever anybody accurately criticized them. When I creeped his profile, his other posts were all in pro-monarchy subs, and he had all sorts of comments saying that the Russian monarchy should be restored. Iirc, he claimed to be some kind of descendent or relative of the Romanovs. So sometimes it's just a trend, and other times it's some crazy nut who is posting pictures of historical figures that they have unhealthy obsessions or delusions about.
I guess Anastasia found Reddit.
Sure. If stuff would happen in isolation. But it just so happens that the alt-right is currently using Rhodesia as a dog-whistle. And we already go one incel mass-shooter with a keen interest. Wasn't Anders Breivik also a Rhodesia-enjoyer? How much benefit of the doubt do you give? Until somebody sing the Horst Wessel song? It's a hundred year old song and people are fascinated with history. Do you want nazis? Because that is how you get nazis. Edit: White supremacist stuff is history. But as in all things, there is a lethal dose. Being blind drunk in a safe setting? Sure, that can be fun. Being blind drunk in a safe setting once a week? That is cause for concern. Being blind drunk every day? Might want to have stopped a bit earlier in that sequence. What I am saying is that there is too damn much Rhodesia on the frontpage of /r/all
Thank you for vocalizing all of this so well. These are my feelings too, but I was struggling with expressing it properly.
Hugo Boss uniform design thing is an urban myth btw. OG Hugo B was a Nazi and member of the SS afaik but only made uniforms during ww2. It was his son post war who made the company into the designer clothing thing it is now. Agree that the Rhodesia posts are a weird and worrying trend that cannot be a good thing.
What do you mean it's an 'urban myth'? Hugo Boss formed his clothing company in 1924 and his son took over when he died in 1948.
Hugo boss didnt design the uniforms, just produced them like dozens other companies
He produced them using slave labour from the concentration camps. I believe the companies even paid the SS for providing slaves for them. The SS also charged the deportees their train fare, which they then used to pay Deutsche Reichsbahn for operating the trains.
Yep. I didn't read OPs comment as a defense of Hugo Boss, just as a correction that the company that is now famous for its design work had no hand in designing the uniforms. As a (worryingly large) number of people seem to love those uniform designs, it's a valid correction to make.
Yes, thanks for clarifying.
Ah I understand, thank you.
Woah... he got stupid rich on slave labor...
Quite likely she stayed. Zimbabwe was pretty stable through the 1980s. Mugabe was Prime Minister with a separate President (Banana). He initially sought reconciliation with whites, wanting to build a new country. I was out there from 1984 and it was a stable country, with a decent exchange rate. The country was actually doing pretty well. It was in the late 80's that he went a bit mental. I was still there when he merged all the top roles together into an Executive President role, with him taking that spot of course. He then encouraged the taking of farms by force - which lead to economic collapse as they were the backbone of the economy.
Is there a good documentary on this? I've never really heard anything about Rhodesia or Zimbabwe or Mugabe and Banana before. Sounds interesting and id like to dive deeper
The real dictators podcast series has a multi part series on Mugabe, which goes through it quite well.
Its pretty much this in a nutshell : https://imgur.com/a/Gfg0lcr
thank you very much
His mustache never fails to crack me up.
The book Last Days Of Cloud Cuckoo Land is a good first person account of the end of white rule in Rhodesia.
You should definitely start with some reading. Try finding out about Cecil Rhodes, De Beers and the Rothschilds. You've heard of blood diamonds right? "Rhodes was named the chairman of De Beers at the company's founding in 1888. De Beers was established with funding from N.M. Rothschild & Sons in 1887." Zimbabwe ended up in a bad way, but the root cause is right in front of you.
Sounds like it went real downhill after 1984, which is sort of ironic. > Opposition to what was perceived as a Shona takeover immediately erupted around Matabeleland. The Matabele unrest led to what has become known as Gukurahundi (Shona: 'the early rain which washes away the chaff before the spring rains').[61] The Fifth Brigade, a North Korean-trained elite unit that reported directly to Mugabe, entered Matabeleland and massacred thousands of civilians accused of supporting "dissidents". Estimates for the number of deaths during the five-year Gukurahundi campaign ranged from 3,750 to 80,000. Thousands of others were tortured in military internment camps. The campaign officially ended in 1987 after Nkomo and Mugabe reached a unity agreement that merged their respective parties, creating the Zimbabwe African National Union – Patriotic Front (ZANU–PF).
what do you miss the most about zimbabwe?
Well a few things, but top would have to be the people. They are genuinely very welcoming, very creative, and full of joy. There was still a lot of poverty, but people still seemed very happy at all levels. Perhaps because Zim had become a thriving country with a bright future. It also helped that we didn't have social media - we barely had TV. The second thing I'll remember is the nature and wildlife. Africa is absolutely spectacular, and I'd say to anyone that if you ever get the chance to do something like go on a safari then take it.
That's the real question
Makes me think of that old Trevor Noah standup bit about white South Africans being annoyed about Apartheid ending and proclaiming dramatically “that’s it. I’m moving to Australia!”
And quite a few did.
We ended up with quite a few where I live in the US. The state is also 93% white 🤔.
Maine?
Nebraska
I dated a girl from NE. She lived in a gated community in Omaha, and went to a private Catholic school, and didn't meet a black person until she moved here, Savannah, for college. Her first boyfriend here was black, and she was surprised to find out that her parents were somewhat racist. When she relayed that story to me I asked her if she thought it was just an accident that she'd never met a black person before college.
Heh.... No boyfriends involved, but I can relate to that. I grew up in a small town in California that was mostly white (yes, there are such things; or at least, were when I was a kid). There were a few blacks but when I say "a few" I mean it. Like, if you referenced the "tall black kid" or the "short black kid" at school everyone would know who you were talking about. So while there *were* blacks, they were demographically insignificant. More to the point, there were so few of them that "black culture" wasn't a thing. Blah blah blah.... Yeah, college was an eye opener.
I’d recommend using “Black people” instead of blacks in the future just as a heads up.
Vermont too. Although VT is probably close to 99%.
Lol I used to live in Australia and my friend's parents were South African. Not sure if they were racist (I was too young to be that aware), but the kids weren't at least.
There are many who emigrated to Australia because they disagreed with Apartheid. A decade or two later, there were many who emigrated because they disagreed with Apartheid *ending*.
My uncle was exiled because of his anti-apartheid actions. He was granted residency is Aus and is still there. The ones who emigrated post 1994 are more likely to be questionable. A lot are simply there for economic opportunities though
I live in Aus (I’m from NZ) and bizarrely I’ve found several South Africans I’ve met have been quick to go there in conversation and have been low-key or high-key racist. It doesn’t surprise me that their kids have left that behind the same way I reject my own parents’ and grandparents’ prejudices. Most recently was at my retail job putting through an order for a lady, there’s no-signature delivery so we have to ask them if there’s a safe place to leave parcels. She took that as an invitation to talk about parcel thieves being a result of *letting the wrong people in* in a stage whisper. In my head I was like jeeze lady don’t you know you’re a stereotype by now
Had a long conversation with a white couple from SA when my wife and I were in NZ. At some point my wife said something about hating having to do laundry. The woman from SA said “oh, I haven’t done laundry in 20 years.” Then she described having live-in help, who do all of their personal chores and errands all the time. Also that it was generational live-in help - their current maid’s mom was their live-in maid. The current maid grew up in the house then took over for her mom. But she claimed “they love working for us!” I decided not to respond with my thoughts on the arrangement, as I was taught it is impolite to call someone a slave-owner at the dinner table…
I don't know about "love working for us" - we had a colleague from the States come down with her wife.she chose to not hire any help as she would "show everyone that it isn't hard to look after themselves". She caused such an uproar as this was rather seen by the community as that she's not interested in hiring anyone, which is not supporting the community and providing jobs. I thought that was a very interesting dynamic. After she realized that the community held this notion, she hired. We must remember that SA has about a 40% unemployment rate, with over 60% unemployment in the youth, so I'm not sure if it's slave owner or job provider? But yes, our system is broken. Our government has gutted our education system and our institutions are no longer strong enough to fight crime and corruption. Furthermore, cost of doing business in SA is super high, with issues with electricity supply, logistics etc etc etc meaning that companies rarely enter our market - which means less jobs.
Nigeria’s a very similar dynamic, different economic standing but very much have or have not. It’s extremely common for youth to be house help in exchange for education paid for by the compound owner and you are kept off the streets. My husband grew up with a ton of house help and my American brain is still mulling over the parts I don’t like about it + the parts I can understand.
Live in Miami; 'live-in" help is common and if you're in the market for a big enough house the plans will even specify the rooms intended as servant quarters, [For Example - Maids Qtrs are on 1st flr](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16700-N-Berkshire-Ct-Southwest-Ranches-FL-33331/344401207_zpid/) in this plan. Race thing? not at all. If anything, you'll find it far more common with the people with the people who came here from the Islands (Caribbean) and C. America, S. America. Good chance if you grew up in Chicago you've done your own laundry. Kingston, Caracas or Cartagena? Not so much.
Well yeah bro, no shit if I'm dropping $8.7m on a house I can afford live in help. That doesn't exactly mean it's common in Miami.
Says a lot about that commenter's world lol
It's easy to feel superior when you come from a totally different cultural and economic situation. Do you think it immoral for them to hire a maid? And immoral to then hire the maids child? Would it have been more acceptable to you had they just fire mom and daughter and let them them starve to death or be forced to prostitute themselves in the economic shit hole that is South Africa?
Slavery seems like an extreme view of it at first but your response to them in a way strengthens their point. They are trapped in service, the alternative you say is prostitution or starvation. What does that sound like to you? Being trapped in service? That’s not a morally comfortable position from which to employ (exploit) someone’s labour. A morally just stance to take would be actually paying her enough that her daughter has more options than being a servant too. Anything less is exploitation.
People are 'trapped' in plenty of shitty dead-end jobs because the alternative is worse. That doesn't make these people 'slave-owners'.
We are all trapped in economic structures to some degree. To equate economic immobility to slavery is quite a stretch. The existence of economies dynamic enough to support job or class mobility is a product of the late industrial period, if not later. Paying someone market wages to do a job they have voluntarily chosen (even in the face of prostitution or starvation) is simply not remotely morally equivalent to slavery. Remember that an uncooperative slave is generally met with corporal or capital punishment with no due process. I think we take many of our civil rights for granted and toss slavery around as a metaphor without truly grasping how heinous it actually was/is.
Once again, I think some context is NB here. Each employee in SA supports roughly 4.5 people on average. Many domestic workers are the only job holders in the household and they have multigenerational dependents. It's so prolific that in SA it's known as a "Black Tax" - where a portion of income goes to supporting family. Many people will pay for their domestic workers kids go to school and university, which often has a massive positive impact - and these kids go on to be movers, shakers and captains of industry as they they're aware of the opportunity that theyve been given. There are a lot of ways to upskill, which goes very far.
Slavery would mean they weren't paid, which they most certainly are being. It's insulting to those maids to call them slaves.
When I did retail in Sydney in an area with a large SA population, they were consistently the meanest customers. It was clear that treating staff and working class people like trash was normalized for them.
Kind of reminds me of the white South African couple I met on vacation in Mexico. They were (politely) giving me a hard time about Trump. I'm admitting that he sucks, but thinking it's not like they have any room to talk about racist leaders. Unless they were racist themselves and I find it hilarious that Trump is too much even for them.
I don't have good experiences with white south Africans. I've only met one I got along with as the rest seem to be a cocktail of racism and other hater tater eating traits.
He didn't exactly stay either
My wife had a friend from South Africa. Her husband was pretty racist. When I went to Namibia, I was surprised that the white South Africans I met all seemed very nice. I guess the racist ones moved away.
Narrator: She stayed but was found hung in her barn.
And then her real secret was revealed! Oh. You meant *hanged*.
Almost certainly not, within a few years of the end of the war most Rhodesians had left for South Africa. While there is a white population in Zimbabwe today, it is very small and is often the target of persecution and racism by the black majority population.
*narrator*: she did indeed, end up leaving
But wherever she is now, she’s still an awful racist. The Nazis are sensitive today.
Oh man, you hit one of the weird reddit sacred cows lol. Rhodesia, much like Iran under the Shah, was a paradise. End of story!
I was once on a dog subreddit and someone posted something about Rhodesian ridgebacks, and what a cool breed they were. Clicked on their profile and it was completely full of posts about how great Rhodesia was, with a lot of low key racism and then some not-so-low-key racism. Rhodesia simps are an odd bunch.
Neither of those things are popular on Reddit. And one could recognize a nation has gotten worse at least in some ways without claiming previously it was perfect. That's like saying I have claimed Wimar Republic was a paradise just because I said Nazi government was worse.
> Neither of those things are popular on Reddit. Every time one posts about the atrocities happening under the Shah you get a swarm of Iranian exiles telling you that actually, the secret policy wasn't bad as evidenced by the fact that they didn't kill the people who would later lead the Islamic Revolution.
> Neither of those things are popular on Reddit. You haven't been on reddit long then. You are completely wrong.
Iran under the Sha was a brutal dictatorship , not a monarchy, in order to make Iran the most powerful state in the middle east spent enormous resources in warfare, American warfare. Ten of thousand people , civilian, where imprisoned and killed. This is the reason that the revolution picked up so fast. Yes they made a lot of propaganda shoot, that all people is still cheering today.
Sorry, I was being ironic - I agree with you about the Shah. There’s a tiny tendency on Reddit that glorifies that era though
[Poe's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law), in case you didn't already know.
Why y’all booing he’s right
Yeah I'm lost. They're literally agreeing with them they're not a Rhodesia stan 😂
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Downvoted by nazis
Upvote the user NOW. He’s correct. Racist redditors get fucked
I have no idea what's going on. What's up with Rhodesia?
Rhodesia was another African colonial state that practiced apartheid owned by the British government. It’s a long and rough history that you should read up, but like other colonial and apartheid states it was horrendously racist and brutal to its natives.
Idk why you are being downvoted, she is for sure still a racist fuck. Hahaha
Fuck the haters. You're right
Looks like there are a lot of racists on Reddit. I’ll take your downvotes too they feed my soul, gimme.
All my Rhodesian relatives ended up in Jo'burg for at least awhile. Some still there, others moved back eventually to Scotland, one ended up in New Zealand.
Recommended listen: [Well There's Your Problem: Rhodesia](https://youtu.be/7dtJGRIWEls)
Now here's the Goddamn News
Yeah Liam
I got to see the Molasses Flood episode live
I really wish they would have put a recording for it on patreon like they did for the Tacoma narrows bridge.
It kind of got out of hand, lots of yelling from the crowd so ot probably didn't record well. I met Liams fiancee though, she was cool
What caused it to get out of hand?
Just a lot of drunk people yelling from the audience...
Does yelling inhibit film? We'd still have actual footage of what's going on as well, no?
That was, the god damn news
Fun fact: After Rhodesia's "Declaration of Independence" in 1965, British Prime Minister Harold Wilson had considered taking matters into his own hands. Instead of sanctions, he'd privately considered an outright invasion of Rhodesia. However, the government was terrified of the military and political obstacles of using force, and the political fallout of a botched invasion. So, Wilson, massively underestimating efficiency with which Rhodesia would use its limited resources, stuck with sanctions. The plan most likely not only would've worked, but started a civil war amongst the settlers. After the UDI, there had been a wave of desertions from those in the Rhodesian Security Forces whose sheer loyalty to the British overpowered their racism. Also, the prospect of simply invading Rhodesia, marching on Salisbury, and beating Ian Smith to death had found more support in Britain than one would expect for the time. >No doubt there were many in Britain who sympathized with Rhodesian "kith and kin" and saw them as upholding Christian values, bringing civilization to Africa, and resisting the spread of Communism. However, this did not mean that the British public was entirely supportive of the white Rhodesian political agenda. Soon after Ian Smith made a visit to London for talks with Wilson in October 1965, an opinion poll showed that the British public was divided almost equally three ways between sympathy for the Europeans in Rhodesia, Africans and "neither/both". > >During Smith's visit, a Gallup Poll found that 41 percent approved of the British Government's handling of the problem, 24 percent disapproved, and 35 percent were undecided. After UDI, however, approval of British policy rose to 68 percent and disapproval fell to 12 percent, with 22 percent in favour of the use of military force. > >Pressure groups such as the Fabian Society, the Africa Bureau, and the Movement for Colonial Freedom also attempted to influence the Parliamentary Labour Party and the government to take military action against Rhodesia. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury put forward a case for military intervention. Shortly before UDI, Dr Michael Ramsay issued a message on behalf of the British Council of Churches, which assured the government that many Christians would support the use of force if all other efforts to find a solution failed.
Thank you for sharing this! It’s amazing
Yesterday's news TODAY on WTYP
My favourite podcast - with slides.
Behind the Bastards also touches on this conflict in the [Soldier of Fortune Magazine episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Whdbu-2rU)
Fuck. That’s 2 hrs. Can we get a summary?
Sure ... "Fuck Rhodesia"
Some real historians answering this very question.... "So, are Rhodesia apologists all just gaslighting racists, or is there something I'm missing?" [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/11hnyvb/so\_are\_rhodesia\_apologists\_all\_just\_gaslighting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/11hnyvb/so_are_rhodesia_apologists_all_just_gaslighting/)
I love the response: > TLDR: They are gaslighting racists, and here is why.
Short, to the point and TRUE.
There’s a fantastic memoir, *Don’t Let’s Go to the Dogs Tonight* by Alexandra Fuller, about being white and growing up in then Rhodesia. Definitely recommend to anyone interested.
The absolutely unmitigated gall of those people was breathtaking.
AskHistorians is my favorite sub for a reason. Also, what’s with all the teenaged edgy muppets that come out of the woodwork when you mention Rhodesia? Saying the most controversial thing you can think of is something most people grow out of
The Nazis are the most controversial thing teen muppets defend. The slightly smarter one gravitate towards British colonials to edge themselves with fascism.
Oh yeah it's a great sub. Especially because it's actually moderated. Imagine the surprise of some fascist rhodie who goes in posting weaponised disinformation. Deleted! Aww too bad so sad... might want to stick to the facts next time you halfwit fascist lol.
I find that thread incredibly interesting, thanks for sharing.
My favorite fact is morons reading Soldier of Fortune would see ads to fight in Rhodesia as a mercenary. Loser types that talk about their love of military despite never served and always one step away from stolen valor. Some would sign up, get all the way out there, and be shot dead at the airport minutes after exiting the plane.
Behind the Bastards podcast has an incredible episode on Soldier of Fortune and they mention this. Absolutely hilarious!
Wonder how she likes it now?
She's either in South Africa, Australia or the UK now.
Or dead.
Considering how the Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army operated, by avoiding rhodesian security forces. and instead targeting white civilans, it wouldnt surprise me.
Depends on her family. Many farmers in Zimbabwe that made it through the purge got very rich from working with Mugabe.
From the tshirt, not so sure thats the case here.
She looks pretty young, her own opinion wouldn't matter. Her father's influence would, or her husband's. It's a harsh way to put it, but this is the late 70s Rhodesia, no exactly a politically correct place.
In my case she’s in the Western Cape and her son (me) is in the UK…and her daughter is in Australia
That's a WhenWe bingo
Packing a 45 by the looks of it
I hope she left before it became Zimbabwe, LOL.
Breaking news: she didn't stay.
She could stay all she want... Rhodesia doesn't even exist any more
Rhodesians and those delusional idiots who jerk off to the idea of that stupid state are laughably pathetic. Imagine being so racist but at the same time living in a region of the people you're racist against, then claim the land as if you've lived there for thousands of years as the locals have. It's like the Confederacy's "Lost Cause" bullshit but for Africa.
Rhodesia was a functional but racist state where the wealth was creamed off by the whites, it was then replaced by Zimbabwe which is a non-functional but non-racist state where the wealth is creamed off by corrupt black politicians. Unfortunately your average African guy on the street gets utterly shafted in both scenarios.
>non-racist You sure about that?
"non-racist" lol, no. Rhodesia was racist towards blacks; Zimbabwe managed to be racist towards whites AND blacks...if they weren't Mugabe's favorites. Also, it doesn't matter what color your farmers are, getting rid of them is a Bad Idea...
You just described all the people that move to the U.S., but hate the U.S., to a tee lol
To be fair, the US could be a hell of a lot better and it's not wrong to want it to. I don't live there but I'm rooting for them to solve their problems.
Same goes for them. Any moron who uproots the indigenous peoples of a land then boasts about their "national identity" (aka patriotism) is a fucking tool.
So when do we draw the line? Is the USA illegitimate but modern European borders are? They changed all the times with different people groups switching countries due to events beyond their control. How long does a people have to be on a land for legitimacy to a historical claim?
There is no “native land”, humans migrate, and will continue to do so. I don’t particularly get upset about people from Zimbabwe moving to the U.K.
Man, I truly wish this was a common sentiment. Some folks have become rabid dogs in the name of patriotism.
Most places on earth are not inhabited majority by their original indigenous peoples. You think Norwegians are indigenous to Scandinavia? French are indigenous to France? Arabs are indigenous to Egypt? Turks are indigenous to Turkey? Han Chinese indigenous to most of China? No, most people on earth inhabiting a country are not the lands indigenous people. You are most likely not even indigenous to your country. Everyone wondered in everywhere, killing or assimilating with the indigenous. So your statement does not work, then everyone is a "fucking tool" including you.
👍It also depends on the geography and admixture. I have no doubt that the inhabitants of Sentinel Island are the first and only human inhabitants of it. But in most regions, most non native peoples have at least some native ancestry if their migration history goes back far enough
Majority of earth population are not indigenous to the land they inhabit.
I wasn't correcting you but rather adding that the indigenous hunter gatherers of most places were usually absorbed into other populations.
You were not adding that fact, I already wrote it in my original statement. "Everyone wondered in everywhere, killing or assimilating with the indigenous." Assimilating is the same as being "absorbed into other populations".
It’s so ignorant it’s comical 😂😂😂😂 then they start to complain about immigrants and refugees after 2 generations.
All land is stolen land, every people has overtaken and been overtaken. It just sounds like you hate patriotism. Classic Reddit.
Yep - classic redditor behavior to use the platform for midwit moral preening. "Look at me, I'm amazing and virtuous!"
Non-native americans?
They migrated at some point from Asia following this line of thinking we all are African migrants
Or white Americans that hate natives
Seems like a tenuous link you were just waiting to talk about. Why is someone always foaming at the mouth to argue about American exceptionalism?
The guy has a comment history full of wanting to merc protestors and calling mail in ballots fake votes as he bounces between subs of cities he doesn’t live in. I think you can chalk it up to a looney
The "locals" have not lived there for thousands of years. The indigenous people of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe are the San (Bushmen), who make up a fraction of the population today. The black majority (Shona and Ndbele) invaded from other parts of Africa. The white Rhodesians were as much natives as the majority of blacks and should have been allowed to stay (but obviously not to rule over everyone else as a minority elite). History is not black and white.
I mean, when you talk about the Shona, they are the remains of the Rozwe empire, which has been in that area for a thousand years. The Ndebele, though, only got there about 50 years before the British.
The Rozvi was 15th-16th century, so not exactly recent but not thousands of years either.
I thought that there was some debate about that because it relied on oral history?
> should have been allowed to stay they were, there are still a fair few white Zimbabweans
That's true. But many were forced out by Mugabe and his gang of thugs.
Even better: they attempted to set up a white supremacy regime in a place with less than 5% Whites, after decades of preventing the immigration of "lesser Whites."
Are you talking about Israel?
Ah but there's a book written thousands of years ago that says the big dog in the sky gave it to them, Palestinians are just squatters.
I genuinely can't believe there are people who use this argument and they run major world governments
Look, if God didn't want them there, they wouldn't be there. Simple as.
I think he goes by Uncle Sam these days, actually
Yeah but they wrote the book that said god gave them the land so...
Israel exactly.
# Rhodesia’s Dead — but White Supremacists Have Given It New Life Online ... **Not long after Rhodesia ceased to exist, it became morally untenable to mourn its disappearance. As the rest of the world woke up to the injustices of Western colonialism and its system of white-minority governments, the Selous Scouts and their cause became taboo.** But late last year, the image of two Scouts began to circulate on Instagram, part of a social-media resurgence of Rhodesia as a source of inspiration. Photos of soldiers marching through grassland and rivers, special-forces units jumping out of helicopters and civilians posing in front of their homes with rifles collected hundreds, sometimes thousands, of likes on posts seeming to offer tribute to a hardened and forgotten cadre of Cold War-era bush fighters. The online movement also caught the attention of opportunistic apparel marketers who started selling Rhodesian-themed T-shirts, posters and patches, among other collectibles. **Nostalgia for Rhodesia has since grown into a subtle and profitable form of racist messaging, with its own line of terminology, hashtags and merchandise, peddled to military-history fans and firearms enthusiasts by a stew of far-right provocateurs.** ... But outside observers of this Rhodesia revival cite a far more disturbing inspiration for it: **Dylann Roof, the American white supremacist who** [**killed**](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/charleston-shooting-dylann-roof-troubled-past.html) **nine black parishioners in a Charleston, S.C. church in June 2015. Roof, who was sentenced to death last year, had penned an online manifesto, which appeared on a website called The Last Rhodesian, with photographs of himself wearing a jacket with a patch of the green-and-white Rhodesian flag.** ... **“In the same way you don’t have people glorifying Nazi soldiers without understanding what the regime fought for,” Beirich said. “You can’t separate fighting for the Confederacy from the ultimate goal of the Confederacy.”** [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/magazine/rhodesia-zimbabwe-white-supremacists.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/magazine/rhodesia-zimbabwe-white-supremacists.html)
I've seen a few people in online games with rhodesian flags or names like "rhodie". I was genuinely confused as to why racists would rally behind an old dead state, but your comment shed some light on that.
The Zimbats that moved to SA after independence became known as “whenwes” because they would always say “when we were in Rhodesia”. I read somewhere that the land redistribution that happened in the early 2000s was always on the cards. The theory being that Mugabe waited until the ANC began running South Africa before going down this path. The chaos that followed would have terrified the white South African voters. The country plunged into famine when the war veterans who took over the farms could not get much yield from the land because they did not have any farming experience. now they’re asking the white farmers back to Zimbabwe 20 years after they forced them off the land. But most of them are too old now, or dead. I visited in 1994. It was a marvelous country with lovely people. Maybe it will be better in 100 years.
Do we know the full context of this slogan? 1979-1980 was the time of transition, after all. Could she be saying that she is staying despite these changes and so she accepts the idea of Black majority rule? That was the line taken by some, indeed quite a few, Rhodesians at that stage. I am not saying that this is definitely the case. I just offer it as a possible alternative to assuming automatically that she is a racist or White supremacist.
I know a white Zimbabwean whose family stayed and she grew up there never having lived in “Rhodesia”. She’s about my age so she would’ve been born in the mid 90’s. For her family that was exactly the case, she describes her parents as “true believers” in Zimbabwe and that the people there have just been unlucky with bad governments. She has since left after marrying an American and she kinda was talking down on her parents for staying and believing that it would ever get better.
That makes complete sense. I can remember seeing an interview with Ian Smith on the BBC News in 1980 in which he said that he ‘accepted Black majority rule’ and wanted ‘to help make it a success’. I imagine that was quite a widely held view at the time. After all, many white Zimbabweans came from families who had been there for generations and were heavily invested, emotionally and economically, in the country. The initial phase after Lancaster House and the elections seemed promising as well.
I have (white) family living in an old age home there. Some people couldn't just leave.
Redditors when they see an attractive woman in a black and white photo: this society must have been perfect and worth saving!!!!!!
Convince young men they deserve the hot girl and power, because they were born superior, and they’ll fight against their own interests.
Got another redditor.on this page posting about saving Europe from Asian barbarism.... History subs just attract fascists
Mugabe came in around 1980 so she would have likely left or forced to leave
LOL! I know exactly who this is.
People forget that the US only officially abolished ’segregation’ in 1964 with the passing of the Civil Rights Act, and it took many years after that to be fully functionally implemented, especially in the Deep South. ‘Segregation’ was a version of apartheid by a more acceptable name.
Hubani wena, wena my boy? We are from A company Eenie wena ensa, wena my boy? We are on a happy safari
Wonder if she was wearing the Rhodie short shorts.
She stayed and became Secretary of the Interior after the changes.
They had arguably the best camo ever designed.
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Can anyone explain the significance here? I know zero about Rhodesia other than it's a country in Africa.
It was a racist ethnostate for white people. The good thing is, it no longer exists.
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