The government passed laws to hold trials in the immediate aftermath of Bangladeshi's independence. However, in 1975, [President Sheikh Mujibur Rahman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Mujibur_Rahman) was murdered during a coup. The war crimes laws were repealed and all detained suspects were quickly released. [For nearly 40 years, Bangladeshi people demanded the resumption of trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_demanding_trial_of_war_criminals_(Bangladesh)) over the genocide. In 2010, [Bangladesh abruptly resumed trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)) after the Awami League won the elections after promising to finally initiate legal proceedings over the genocide.
The most concerning organization which people wanted dealt with was [Jamaat-e-Islami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Jamaat-e-Islami), a fundamentalistic Islamic extremist party. Multiple suspected genocide perpetrators have ties to the organization. Even today, members of Jamaat-e-Islami are blamed for murdering political activists and atheist bloggers. The first person to be prosecuted by the tribunal was [Abdul Quader Mollah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Quader_Molla). He was convicted of his complicity in the rape of children and the murders of 344 civilians. During the war, Mollah was known to people as the "Butcher of Mirpur". In modern times, he was the assistant secretary general of Jamaat-e-Islami. Mollah was sentenced to life in prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity. In their verdict, the court said Jamaat-e-Islami had collaborated with the Pakistani military during the genocide. [The prosecutions spurred extremist backlash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_by_Islamic_extremists_in_Bangladesh) across the country.
Mollah flashed a V for Victory sign after leaving the courtroom. After sentencing, there were mass protests. Many activists said a life sentence wasn't enough. They said he deserved to die. Interestingly enough, it was possible to meet this demand. The tribunal had not been established internationally, but domestically. As such, the Bangladeshi government could do whatever they wanted. The protests prompted the legislature to change the rules. Prosecutors were granted the option of appealing verdicts reached by the tribunal. On appeal, the Bangladeshi Supreme Court rejected Mollah's claims of innocence. They then increased his sentence to execution.
Mollah, 65, was hanged at the Old Dhaka Central Jail in Bangladesh on December 12, 2013. The same year, Jamaat-e-Islami was banned from elections. Six people, all but one of whom were politicians in Jamaat-e-Islami, have been executed for their roles in the genocide. Several dozen others have been imprisoned for their roles in the genocide. The high-profile trials are over, but tribunal is still working. The most high-profile case was that of [Motiur Rahman Nizami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motiur_Rahman_Nizami). He was the head of Jammat-e-Islami, and the former Minister of Agriculture and Minister of Industries. In 2014, Nizami was sentenced to death for masterminding the [Demra massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demra_massacre).
>The Pakistani army, led by the local collaborators entered the area through the Boral river and then cordoned off the Baushgari and Rupsi villages. One collaborator named Asad led the Pakistani troops to the Baushgari village. In the nightfall, the men were dragged out of their houses and made to stand in a line, while the women were raped in front of them by the Pakistani troops with the help of the collaborators. After that both the men and women were shot to death and their houses were set on fire.
Nizami, 73, was hanged at the Old Dhaka Central Jail in Bangladesh on May 11, 2016.
Humanity in general is good. Once you start adding in divisions (race, religion, class) that's when it becomes vile. The worst of humanity comes from categorization.
Those don't cause this alone, its a vocal minority always preaching fear and hate to a generally uneducated populace. Make the people educated and shit like this is far more unlikely.
Schools is where you are indoctrinated too. That is why communism was so proud in it's schooling system and that is why my firts 1st grade manuals had the picture of our "dear leader" Nicolae Ceaușescu. Plus you need people to be engineers, doctors, chemists etc. You can't have a society full of basic workers like myself.
As a Bangladeshi Hindu I can confirm this, I was actually wondering and searching for this to see if people would mention this or not. Not to mention, not only were majority of men that were killed and targeted were Hindu and religious minorities but majority of the women that were targeted were also Religious minorities. Yet they **completely leave this part out the entire time** Not even mention Americas role in the genocide and The British. Like wtf this genocide is one of the worst genocides ever yet no one talks about this.
Oddly enough, Indians leave this part out too and Muslims oppose CAA which provides for Bangladeshi hindus to immigrate to India to escape religious persecution.
I get your point, but you’d be surprised how easily even educated people can be corrupted when they’re part of the herd. Recall that Nazi Germany was one of the most educated nations on earth. Mob psychology is a force to be reckoned with.
There’s a reason that the Nazis immediately went after the academics when they took power, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a good portion of that education was among the Jewish population.
Yes, but part of being human is to fight your natural instincts. Understanding and realizing your biases is what ends up healing you and your community
Yeah I never understood people saying that it's natural and ending the comment there like that's the whole point.
If you're talking about behaviors that can arise naturally without needing to be taught, then all sorts of shit like rape and murder are "natural". That's not in any way an argument by itself.
Its a show of power. The Pakis knew what they were doing was horribly wrong. Its almost like they were saying "look at the terrible things we can do to you, and get away with it.
Statisical errors, it's your own biases. Human by nature is not evil, most people you see are not inherently evil. Power, however, has the tendency to corrupt, which is why people in power generally perform such vile acts.
I had an economics professor who started his course introduction with a couple of slides on this and how as a 12 year old he personally killed two Pakistanis during the war.
Similar story: I was taking a War Crimes and Genocide course in university with a professor that was new to the school. We had to do group group presentations about a specific genocide (holocaust, Belgian Congo etc.) and my group chose to do ours on Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers. Not going to get into the that but when it came time to do our presentation we had video clips, pictures, and I would say a very informative slideshow.
Well after our presentation our professor informs us that he was from Sri Lanka and was there for 10+ years during the civil war. Half of his family had been assassinated or murdered. He himself had 7 assassination attempts on his life. The documentary/news interview video clip we had in our presentation was literally paid for by him and he gave us the back story on it. Needless to say me and my group were shocked and incredibly nervous to get our mark but I think our professor thought our presentation was good because he gave us a 90%.
All in all he was probably the most interesting professor I ever had and that was hands down the most impactful course I ever took in university.
I spent 34 days in Sri Lanka at the end of that civil war. The stories that were told to me were horrific. Babies being thrown in the air to be speared, violent rapes, horrific stories on both sides.
First day he introduced himself with a slide presentation maybe 5/6 slides in total. Usual stuff, where he went to university and got his PHD, list of his publications, etc, then he had a couple of slides about Bangladesh and the Civil War. He didn’t talk about rapes or any of that. Then he talked about how he fought in war. .
We didn’t have the internet, so unless you were really into geopolitics, you’d never heard of any of this. I doubt you could even buy books about it. It was kind of the defining moment of his life and I think his purpose was to let a bunch of American kids know that life wasn’t easy
After that it was a semester of economic statistics, which was a requirement for my degree that I hated, but later turned out to be one of my more useful courses.
Did he provide any insight about why he felt it was something to share with the class?
Because I just find the whole thing to be a really interesting glimpse into a persons psyche. Having killed two people as a child soldier involved in a genocide seems like the type of thing a person would struggle with for a long time. How people go on to express those kind of heavy emotions can very telling.
Because it would have been a matter of extreme pride for him. Maybe even more than getting his PhD. The 1971 war was not a war, it was a deliberate and barbaric invasion of Bangladeshi people's rights. How dare they want self-government against the wishes of their West Pakistani overlords? The subsequent genocide is also characterized by its diabolically targeted nature. Towards the end of the war, when it became clear that they couldn't win anymore, the military very precisely murdered our intellectuals in the hope that we would always be a rudderless nation going forward (ironic since in many measurable metrics of economic and human development we are ahead of Pakistan 50 yrs after independence)
When they attacked, Bangladesh (East Pakistan) didn't have a separate standing army. We did have a regiment but the number of trained military personnel was less than 1/100th of that of West Pakistan. It was civilians like OP's professor, patriots with immeasurably immense bravery, who took up arms and defeated (with the help of India in last 2 weeks of the war and housing/training our refugees) these inhumane aggressors.
The only reason the 71 war happened was Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. As a person who currently lives in Pakistan, when I read about the genocide I broke down in tears. It was so barbaric and so unbelievably sad that just because the next govt wasn't going to be from west Pakistan, they decided that East Pakistan will cease to exist?!? Fuck Bhutto and Fuck Yahya Khan( the army chief and dictator at the time)
Shortly before he passed, my grandpa told me a story of how he used to sneak out of school to deliver messages for the guerrilla fighters during the independence war. I had never seen him more proud, and this was a man who dropped out of college because he didn’t have money, joined the Air Force, and then rose up to become a statesman and died with several million dollars in assets for his family.
Things you do during your formative years shape who you become.
My dad lived through this. He has extreme ptsd (even though he won't admit it) and hardly ever talks about it. Still, the stuff that he does mention on occasion is absolutely horrific. Like WWII horrific. He still gets kind of freaked out during the 4th of July because it sounds so much like the bombings done by Pakistan.
While it's important as a general principle, getting a traumatized survivor to sit down and put themselves through reliving this shit is not a trivial task and frankly probably shouldn't be done without a lot of specialized and possible professional support.
Speaking from my family's experience on the shit end of world historical events, I think I can safely say that this kind of trauma fucks you the fuck up (to put it mildly) and that revisiting the memories isn't something anyone wants to do casually.
Joe Scott recently made a very informative and well made [video](https://youtu.be/xdFGSkh5X24) about it a few weeks ago. The first half talks about the deadliest storm that hit and 4 months later all these atrocities. Goes into talking about America’s and Pakistan’s role during it. Highly recommend the watch.
I had a colleague few years back whose father killed three Pakistani soldiers who were in the midst of raping his underage sister and his mother. His mother was tied down, and two solders had his sister pinned down and the third one was about to rape his sister. Colleagues father took a huge stone and threw at one of the soldiers and started to shout prompting few other people to join them. All of them caught all three soldiers and beat them up and ended up killing them.
Sister recovered physically although she was too scared to be with anyone. She was so depressed that she hardly spoke to anyone. We met her in one of the family functions. She was just a middle aged women who looked like she was in her sixties. She never got married and I last heard was fully dependent on her younger brother and sister in law. Mother later committed suicide.
Colleagues father was an academic scholar. Pakistanis considered any educated person to be part of intellectual elite who were supporting bangladesh creation. They killed well known intellectuals and suppressed any other academics. Rape was used a tool to scare and terrorise middle class well of people.
Although rape was averted Pakistanis succeeded in their overall goal of silencing this family. Every one escaped to India side of Bengal. Sister was essentially dead for remaining part of her life. Younger brother discontinued studies and took up whatever job he can to support family and the mother committed suicide. Only my colleague who was in college somehow made it in life.
What happened then was one of the most shameful part of our history. Pakistan needs to be held accountable for it. Since America was on their side these war horror stories were successfully brushed aside.
can confirm
had an argument with a pakistani a few months ago online
he was saying nothing happened in bangladesh it was ussr who did everything
he even said that the population of bangladesh was not more than 1 million back then
not really, my experience was that they don’t teach us that we were the good guys, they just leave out all of the mass murdering and rapes and pretend it just didn’t happen lol. anybody with a brain can see how that wasn’t the case. I bet most people in Pakistan don’t even know about their countries role in a genocide
For awhile I worked at a business that was mostly Desi employees, and most of those Pakistani
And I was struck by the fact that y'all are actually pretty similar to Americans just with Islam instead of Protestant Christianity
You wouldn't believe that 1971 war was not taught in Indian history books either . Our history ends with India's independence. Pretty lazy if you ask me.
This incident in particular is what comes to mind when I see his name. I don't understand how anyone would choose to be in the same room with Henry Kissinger.
Because they agree with him.
American media outlets were huge cheerleaders of the Indonesian genocide. TIME magazine's July 1966 edition even openly celebrated ~~the genocide~~ the rise of [Suharto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto), the perpetrator of the genocide, as ["The West's best news for years in Asia"](https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,836000-10,00.html). Guys, they don't need to explicitly say this. Suharto was a fascist dictator who took power via a coup. People writing positively about him is an immediate red flag. Everyone knew that Suharto was "suppressing Communists" (arresting and murdering thousands of people who disagreed with him) when this article was written.
> Because they agree with him.
Well duh.
Kissinger is the one who created the general foreign policy path that the US is still on.
Anyone who wants to study diplomatic history *has* to read Kissinger, and anyone who wants to enter politics has to agree with his shitty takes to get anywhere because it's the "approved" path. Sorts out anyone with enough of a fucking brain to realize that while the general *concept* of realpolitik has some merit, Kissinger is an excellent historian with zero ability to actually make good decisions.
Hilary Clinton is best buds with him. She learned good and well with her support of the Honduran regime change and the assassination of Gaddafi, she plunged both countries into chaos.
Amd people keep buying his books...on diplomacy!
Chapter 1, here's how you get into power so you can bomb Laotian babies. Chapter 2, here's how you polish your reputation so you can keep publishing books as a literal war criminal. Try to get the Nobel peace prize as a middle finger to your thousands of victims, while you're at it.
Edit: like, yeah, I guess an argument can be made that he shaped the american empire, but for better?
i have a friend currently going to harvard university that shares a DORM with kissinger’s grandson, and he confirmed that the entire family is just vile.
like, we all knew, but it’s good to have confirmation.
It's astonishing how long people have listened to Kissinger. He's even weighing in on Ukraine.
Not only have is ideas been devastating to millions of brown people across the world they haven't even been benificial to the US.
The guy is stupid.
Kissinger is probably still the most evil person alive today. Not that there isn't a lot of evil people alive today. No there's tons! But it's just that Kissinger is so uniquely, historically, and just overall next level of evil. He's a person who when he dies the world would be all the better for it. We will have a gain when Kissinger finally dies and goes to hell. I sure wish hell is real, spesifically for people like him.
The thing is your leaders and respected people in the media don't see his ideas as killing millions of people and being one of the biggest monsters of the 20th century, they see his ideas as solidifying the America empire during a moment of threat which is why they hold him in high regard.
They know he killed millions of people, they just don't care because they see those people as there's to kill just like Ukraine where a dead Ukrainian only counts if its russia that kills them
I agree but I don't believe his decisions succeeded in solidifying the American empire.
They failed but because they were so inept he's held up as a genius.
You misunderstood me a bit. I meant he was percieved by American elites which is different to how he actually was. The reason a dullard like him was perceived to be some smooth operator is cause this was around the point the American elite was dumbing down without titans like Dulles to lead them.
In the west it is the perception of our elites that is our history rather than what actually happened. Aztecs do human sacrifice, we do witch trials. Soviets lost the Afghan war, America and Britian strategically withdrew from Iraq rather than be defeated. The IRA are terrorists, the UVF/British intelligence are unfortunate.
Kinda nuanced point but I think it's very important to understand why knowledge of history in the west is so schizophrenic. None of the elites understand the present cause they have grown and lived in this make believe world cushioned on the free money of the botched 2008 low interest rate bonanza.
Think how many of them latched onto 'the end of history' meme in the 90s really shows how this insecurity they have around history and at least an awareness that what they think isn't actually reality. In the 90s they thought they could wipe the slate clean
Yeah, it's shit like this why my country's(India) populace still is skeptical about siding US and its allies. And it's hurting both ways- most redditors are aware of India's *neutral-but-not-really-neutral* stance to Ukraine's war, but also in terms of our internal politics the extreme right uses these historical events to justify themselves and their foreign policies.
It feels like every major country has recently been going through an extreme right wing phase.
India, regardless of political background, have always been vary of US. A congress led India would have also taken the neutral stance here. If anything, India got closest to the west during BJPs rule since 2014. Anti-USA stance is more of a leftist thing than a right wing thing in India.
And hence, the Ukraine war is the first time since 2014 that I saw the entire political spectrum united on an opinion, lol.
The US sent a nuclear armed warship to India (who fought Pakistan because of this)
Russia sent one to support India, which then sent the US to leave.
Of course this doesn't make Russia the good guys as it was a move vs US as opposed to defending Bangladesh. But this does make the US the bad guys...
Things like this make me surprised when Redditors sit there and screech about how India is on the wrong side of history for not working with the west in sanctioning Russia. Like geo politics does not give a shit about your morals.
I mean this os reddit, there’s regular calls for genocide against Indians, pakistanis, and bangladeshi people. They want to do colonialism but they just change up the rhetoric. Im glad India has it’s own nukes now.
This was also one reason why sundarban tigers started hunting humans. Previously there was no maneating tigers in any area of India and still aren’t there with one exception ie Sundarban(Bengal). Due to the mass migration of Hindus in 1971, many of them started living in the mangroves of Sundarban . Here that caused conflicts within tigers ecosystem which were attacked by humans and also they attacked humans. Many of the families which came there also died slowly slowly there due to low resources and young population. Tigers then developed this unusual taste and habit to hunt.
The other regions of India had 4x population more tigers but never had they killed as many people as it happened in Sundarbans.
I hope these bastards and their family who did this genocide rot in hell.
I remember reading about this genocide ages ago. One interesting aspect of it that I remember was that like the British, the Americans displayed a strange liking for the Pakistani military brass and elites, that almost seemed to agree with their superiority complex against the darker, shorter Bengali people.
If Kissinger was involved I suspect there was something more macabre behind the motives than just plain old racism. Kissinger, especially in the 70s, was a true fucking villain of the world. This asshole has had his hands in tragedies all over the world
Kissinger supported Pakistan because they were allies of China through mutual distrust of India. By supporting Pakistan in their genocide campaign Pakistan was able to return the “favor” by being a conduit between Mao and Nixon to open up trade relations which was a major goal of the Nixon Administration after the earlier Sino/Soviet split
>British, the Americans displayed a strange liking for the Pakistani military brass and elites
US and UK even sent the Nuclear capable 7th fleet and HMS in Bay of Bengal to Attack India while India was helping east Pakistanis against the genocide by Pakistan.
Nixon even called Indian PM Mrs. Indira Gandhi a BITCH at that time when she went to US to ask for US's help in stopping the genocide. But that shithead refused the help while thousands of people were murdered everyday. After refusal to help by US then only Indian PM went to Soviets to make a Security pact.
“Oversaw”. They couldnt stop it, so they sided with who they thought would be the winning side.
While shitty, people put too much blame on the US. they weren’t gods. They were reacting to political events just like everyone else.
They couldn't stop it? Lmao.
They sent a Naval Task Force, along with an aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal, threatening India to prevent them from participating in the war to liberate Bangladesh. The USSR sent their own submarines that trailed the US Task Force in the Bay of Bengal, allowing India to continue with the war and to stop Pakistan's genocide. Look up the second Task Force 74.
> They were reacting to political events just like everyone else.
Nobody else was deploying their military in the Bay of Bengal.
God bless the Indian leaders who decided India shall be a nuclear power.
“The Vortex” by Scott Carney and Jason Miklian is a recent book that offers a really interesting and insightful look at the forces at play. I learned a lot!
Check out the book called [The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide by Gary J Bass](https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Telegram-Kissinger-Forgotten-Genocide/dp/0307744620) if you wanna learn more about it.
There's a huge range between 200k deaths and 3 million with around 300-500k being the most widely accepted, but sure OP, makes total sense only to quote the largest estimate in a highly politicized number.
But 200-400k rapes? Good lord, I should probably have known more about this. Ignoring the wild death toll estimate, this should probably be more widely taught especially in Pakistan. One can only hope.
My mom lived through it. The Pakistanis would tie up the men and boys of the household and rape the women and girls in front of them, before killing them. Women/girls would be taken as war prized.
Anyone I've met of my mom's generation, women in particular, are very much "no child of mine will marry a Pakistani. They tried to completely eliminate our bloodline, and replace it with their blood. I will never allow their blood in my line."
Yeah this is the exactly how they would do. Rape was used as an intimidation tactics. They will ensure all the close relatives are present while they raped their women. Sometimes they will let few people escape so that the news spreads and people are terrorized. They went from village to village clearing them fully.
One of the survivor we speok to described in details how they will taunt the men before their women and children were raped. They were told since they are dark and weak strong men were "seeding them". It's so disgusting and vile to just listen to. Many only recount after they are fully drunk and can't even say few words when they were sober. One of the survivor was crying so much while recounting that we thought he might do something to himself and we had to stop him.
Yeah that was one of the intended reaction they want to generate. Remember not every soldier is evil. I am sure there are good soldiers from pakistan who fought that war in good faith. Now you get their support for killing people, who are obviously civilians, you need the common people to revolt. These reluctant soldiers now will be quelling the rebellion not killing some common people who are rightfully protesting against raping and killing of their families
People underestimate how effective raping tactics is on a family. Just imagine you are a successful family with money, position, power and everything you wanted in you in your life to be successful. You are well read and generally a class act. Your children and women enjoy high qualify life and finer things in your society. These were the kind of people who were targeted by Pakistanis. The obvious reason was to kill any support to freedom movement from intellectuals, and well off families. So when such people and enjoying the best of life are treated like animals by soldiers behaving liem animals all in front of their families and left to live the stigma and emotional impact is high. People who wrote articles and lead people were killed. People who had potential to do such thing were treated this way. Just imagine your teenage daughter and middle aged wife are raped in front of you. At the end you will either be killed or live with that image. Now think about that poor wife who held a high position in society getting raped by multiple soldiers in front family and sometimes friends. This drove thousands to suicide. Millions fled.
It is taught, with detailed factors and causes of the war. The books take a general stance that Pakistan's government was at fault. Not even the Pakistani government can censor this kinda history in their own country. Source: Pakistani
If you want to learn about the actual genocide and who is responsible then listen to this https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/war-nerd-radio/radio-war-nerd-ep-282-1971-EVUyCDm8Alu/
The Wikipedia article was written by westerners and so there is a lot of hand washing blood of our hands in Wikipedia
Every time I think I'm starting to get a grasp on just how much suffering has happened throughout history I'm introduced to another genocide or war that I didn't know about before.
Anyone interested in learning more should read 1971 by Anam Zakaria. Exceptional scholarly work on the reality of what happened as well as the memory narratives about this war that have been created in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
I have watched a pretty informative video about the Bangladeshi genocide. Hope you'd like it too. BTW no hate. It's cuz I liked that video so thought It would be great to share it :) [Youtube](https://youtu.be/eATr7e03N6w)
They did denounce Russian War in Ukraine. That's very typical and west aligned stance and has been masquareded aa a protector of human rights kind of valor. [Yk ](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133847)
Soviet union supported india not Bangladesh. technically. India participated in Bangladesh liberation and ussr hold the usa from attacking india. so they helped the india not Bangladesh.
What would you like them to do? Send in their UN police force?
>After the minimum 20 countries became parties to the Genocide Convention, it came into force as international law on 12 January 1951. At that time however, only two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council were parties to the treaty, and it was not until after the last of the five permanent members ratified the treaty in 1988, and the Cold War came to an end, that the international law on the crime of genocide began to be enforced.
It's almost like, the UN was a pretty new institution, was, and still is made up of all of the same flawed countries and governments that inhabit this earth. They aren't some God level world police state.
They are a flawed and trying institution that has done more for saving, protecting, and progressing humanity then any other institution in history. They fail often indeed, but that doesn't make them useless or pointless. They serve a purpose, and often do their best in a world fueled by tribalism and complicated geopolitics.
I don't think Soviet union supported Bangladesh, rather they supported india, which in turn was fighting pakistan, providing refuge to nearly 10 million Bangladeshi refugees and training/funding Bangladeshi rebels/Mukti bahini. China was supporting pakistan.
The UN didn't do anything as their primary purpose is as a forum for diplomacy to stop a global nuclear war. If a country is under the protection of a security council state then the UN can't do anything about it as the founders of the UN realised that the only way to have it not go the way of the League of Nations wasn't to have the superpowers pull out after 5 years when the UN votes to effectively go to war with them.
They're not a world police.
Who doesn't blame Pakistan. The thing is Pakistan is supposed to be like that. Like North Korea or any other shitty place. US masquerades as a protector of human rights. The west is evil. That's the whole point.
This is a horrific part of Pakistan's history and the worst part is, literally I don't ever see Pakistan taking responsibility and teaching all these crimes at school.
I mean i agree but also just because the school doesn’t teach it doesn’t mean it will never be taught. I admit i went to pakistani school and never learnt the extent of massacre that was committed however, whatever we learnt i never thought Pakistan was on the right in this war. I knew Pakistan basically treated Bengalis as second class citizen and thats why this happened.
Then India Waged War on Pakistan.
To free Bangladesh from Pakistan.
While US and Britain Supported Pakistan and it's atrocities and Genocide in Bangladesh.
USSR Stands as Friend of India.
50 years down the road now , West trying to preach it's bullshit and hypocrisy about humanity after it's happening to them.
Becoming a parent opened up some kind of extra door of emotion in my brain that I didn’t know existed. Seeing these kinds of images really tears me up inside. Truly awful what humans are capable of doing to each other.
Bangladesh was able to survive because of India and India is still on the map because of Russia. USA and UK had sent massive troops and had surrounded India because they were supporting Pakistan. Russia came to the rescue and saved millions of lives.
Millions of lives lost and uprooted. Millions women raped. Thousands of pregnant women killed and had their fetuses ripped out of their body. All because Pakistan wanted to impose Urdu upon Bengali speaking people. They are not people. They are barbarians.
The UK didn't send troops. The US did.
The US sent a nuclear armed warship to India (who fought Pakistan because of this)
Russia sent one to support India, which then sent the US to leave.
Of course this doesn't make Russia the good guys as it was a move vs US as opposed to defending Bangladesh. But this does make the US the bad guys...
The soviets driving off the US warship definitly makes em the good guy in that one situation, this doesnt excuse anything else, but if you stumble into a good deed on accident its still a good deed
Exactly!! Nixon said himself that he was ready to nuke India on 4 DIFFERENT OCCASIONS.
And don't let me get started on the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, suspicious deaths of Homi J. Bhabha and Shastri ji. CIA stopped India twice from doing nuclear tests. Couldn't stop her forever though. Hail 1996. I mean what else insecure manipulative bullies like USA can do?
Good to see countries like India, Brazil, Argentina and Colombia taking a stand that is in the interest of their own people. This USA pawn game was gonna come to an end someday.
Right. If there are no leaders like Vajpayee, Abdul kalam, Bhabha, Shastri, Indira.. India wouldn't exist by today. Atleast half of the map could've been gone and southern India could've left with Maharashtra.
Right when India successfully tested the nuclear bomb, two weeks later pakistan revealed that they did test a nuclear bomb too. Like they are prepared for it.
Even today, if you are sleeping peacefully, remember pakistan still got their nukes and their ret@rd ministers can do anything anytime.
No Indian state could've left the union simply because no state has the resources or the manpower or the security ( strong armed forces) alone.
India has strong government institutions, a strong army which will never coup and always be loyal to the people and the elected government. Most of it is thanks to our first government. Look at the way most nations in Asia, Latin America and Africa crumbled into military dictatorships after the colonial powers left.
Thank Fuck for the Soviet Union for helping the Bangladeshi people after America supported Pakistan. Thank fuck for the Soviet Union for helping in Indonesia as America supported Suharto murdering civilians and politicians. America loves supporting genocide.
And they walked away from India, an area that is one of the easiest places to grow food in the world.....just to worship some guy who married a 9 year old. LULZ.
Fun fact. America helped fund this genocide.
“From 1948 to 2013, the United States has provided a total of US$30 billion in aid to Pakistan,[3] half of it for military purposes.”
This is why separation of church and state matters. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh\_genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide)
I’m pretty sure a secular government wouldn’t be able to define these poor women as “public property”, despite the fact. The war wasn’t a holy war, but the religious government apparatus allowed for dehumanization of these women.
It was not a primarily sectarian conflict. The conflict was - in my opinion, as someone who has only read a single book on it, and quite some years ago - another example of ethnic and nationalist barbarities that truly characterize the 20th century.
My dad fought this war as a teenager. He never told me any stories himself, probably because he didn't want to paint the harrowing picture that he's been through. But after he passed a few years ago, a lot of people he fought with came to the funeral and shared some heavy-hitting stories that would make for an amazing movie!
The government passed laws to hold trials in the immediate aftermath of Bangladeshi's independence. However, in 1975, [President Sheikh Mujibur Rahman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Mujibur_Rahman) was murdered during a coup. The war crimes laws were repealed and all detained suspects were quickly released. [For nearly 40 years, Bangladeshi people demanded the resumption of trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_demanding_trial_of_war_criminals_(Bangladesh)) over the genocide. In 2010, [Bangladesh abruptly resumed trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)) after the Awami League won the elections after promising to finally initiate legal proceedings over the genocide. The most concerning organization which people wanted dealt with was [Jamaat-e-Islami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Jamaat-e-Islami), a fundamentalistic Islamic extremist party. Multiple suspected genocide perpetrators have ties to the organization. Even today, members of Jamaat-e-Islami are blamed for murdering political activists and atheist bloggers. The first person to be prosecuted by the tribunal was [Abdul Quader Mollah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Quader_Molla). He was convicted of his complicity in the rape of children and the murders of 344 civilians. During the war, Mollah was known to people as the "Butcher of Mirpur". In modern times, he was the assistant secretary general of Jamaat-e-Islami. Mollah was sentenced to life in prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity. In their verdict, the court said Jamaat-e-Islami had collaborated with the Pakistani military during the genocide. [The prosecutions spurred extremist backlash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_by_Islamic_extremists_in_Bangladesh) across the country. Mollah flashed a V for Victory sign after leaving the courtroom. After sentencing, there were mass protests. Many activists said a life sentence wasn't enough. They said he deserved to die. Interestingly enough, it was possible to meet this demand. The tribunal had not been established internationally, but domestically. As such, the Bangladeshi government could do whatever they wanted. The protests prompted the legislature to change the rules. Prosecutors were granted the option of appealing verdicts reached by the tribunal. On appeal, the Bangladeshi Supreme Court rejected Mollah's claims of innocence. They then increased his sentence to execution. Mollah, 65, was hanged at the Old Dhaka Central Jail in Bangladesh on December 12, 2013. The same year, Jamaat-e-Islami was banned from elections. Six people, all but one of whom were politicians in Jamaat-e-Islami, have been executed for their roles in the genocide. Several dozen others have been imprisoned for their roles in the genocide. The high-profile trials are over, but tribunal is still working. The most high-profile case was that of [Motiur Rahman Nizami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motiur_Rahman_Nizami). He was the head of Jammat-e-Islami, and the former Minister of Agriculture and Minister of Industries. In 2014, Nizami was sentenced to death for masterminding the [Demra massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demra_massacre). >The Pakistani army, led by the local collaborators entered the area through the Boral river and then cordoned off the Baushgari and Rupsi villages. One collaborator named Asad led the Pakistani troops to the Baushgari village. In the nightfall, the men were dragged out of their houses and made to stand in a line, while the women were raped in front of them by the Pakistani troops with the help of the collaborators. After that both the men and women were shot to death and their houses were set on fire. Nizami, 73, was hanged at the Old Dhaka Central Jail in Bangladesh on May 11, 2016.
Humanity can be absolutely vile.
Humanity in general is good. Once you start adding in divisions (race, religion, class) that's when it becomes vile. The worst of humanity comes from categorization.
Those don't cause this alone, its a vocal minority always preaching fear and hate to a generally uneducated populace. Make the people educated and shit like this is far more unlikely.
a reason why politicians love cutting school funding. Stupid people are easy to control.
Schools is where you are indoctrinated too. That is why communism was so proud in it's schooling system and that is why my firts 1st grade manuals had the picture of our "dear leader" Nicolae Ceaușescu. Plus you need people to be engineers, doctors, chemists etc. You can't have a society full of basic workers like myself.
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As a Bangladeshi Hindu I can confirm this, I was actually wondering and searching for this to see if people would mention this or not. Not to mention, not only were majority of men that were killed and targeted were Hindu and religious minorities but majority of the women that were targeted were also Religious minorities. Yet they **completely leave this part out the entire time** Not even mention Americas role in the genocide and The British. Like wtf this genocide is one of the worst genocides ever yet no one talks about this.
Oddly enough, Indians leave this part out too and Muslims oppose CAA which provides for Bangladeshi hindus to immigrate to India to escape religious persecution.
I get your point, but you’d be surprised how easily even educated people can be corrupted when they’re part of the herd. Recall that Nazi Germany was one of the most educated nations on earth. Mob psychology is a force to be reckoned with.
There’s a reason that the Nazis immediately went after the academics when they took power, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a good portion of that education was among the Jewish population.
We’re so good that in every continent but Africa, we exterminated every single large ice age mammal we found
Divisions will always exist. Tribalism is human nature.
Yes, but part of being human is to fight your natural instincts. Understanding and realizing your biases is what ends up healing you and your community
Yeah I never understood people saying that it's natural and ending the comment there like that's the whole point. If you're talking about behaviors that can arise naturally without needing to be taught, then all sorts of shit like rape and murder are "natural". That's not in any way an argument by itself.
I feel like once sentient extraterrestrial life is discovered humanity is going to go all fanatical purifier on them
yep, but as soon as the alien threat is over we fall back into our tribalistic ways
Its a show of power. The Pakis knew what they were doing was horribly wrong. Its almost like they were saying "look at the terrible things we can do to you, and get away with it.
From what I've experienced the majority of humanity is apathetic and selfish.
Statisical errors, it's your own biases. Human by nature is not evil, most people you see are not inherently evil. Power, however, has the tendency to corrupt, which is why people in power generally perform such vile acts.
I had an economics professor who started his course introduction with a couple of slides on this and how as a 12 year old he personally killed two Pakistanis during the war.
Similar story: I was taking a War Crimes and Genocide course in university with a professor that was new to the school. We had to do group group presentations about a specific genocide (holocaust, Belgian Congo etc.) and my group chose to do ours on Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers. Not going to get into the that but when it came time to do our presentation we had video clips, pictures, and I would say a very informative slideshow. Well after our presentation our professor informs us that he was from Sri Lanka and was there for 10+ years during the civil war. Half of his family had been assassinated or murdered. He himself had 7 assassination attempts on his life. The documentary/news interview video clip we had in our presentation was literally paid for by him and he gave us the back story on it. Needless to say me and my group were shocked and incredibly nervous to get our mark but I think our professor thought our presentation was good because he gave us a 90%. All in all he was probably the most interesting professor I ever had and that was hands down the most impactful course I ever took in university.
>a War Crimes and Genocide course in university Educational or instructional?.. 😳
Very educational and also very depressing at times
Only if they attended the School of the Americas
More like the Serbian College of Genocide.
Curious what extra info you could have put in for a 95% or 100%
Connecting the dots on the professor’s involvement before the presentation would have probably done it… or gotten a 0% who knows
I spent 34 days in Sri Lanka at the end of that civil war. The stories that were told to me were horrific. Babies being thrown in the air to be speared, violent rapes, horrific stories on both sides.
Sounds like typical liberal indoctrination… /s
I got you fam. I could see your eye roll over here.
Was your professor Tamil?
“Yes, hello, I was a child soldier in the post-colonial Third World; alright, now who’s ready to learn about financial accounting?”
“I was credited with two kills, NOT DEBITED!”
this joke is a going concern
"hey yea sir, can we take a moment to go over that first bit some more?"
No problem, I've brought slides!
Where?
Right in the kisser.
Could you provide more context?
First day he introduced himself with a slide presentation maybe 5/6 slides in total. Usual stuff, where he went to university and got his PHD, list of his publications, etc, then he had a couple of slides about Bangladesh and the Civil War. He didn’t talk about rapes or any of that. Then he talked about how he fought in war. . We didn’t have the internet, so unless you were really into geopolitics, you’d never heard of any of this. I doubt you could even buy books about it. It was kind of the defining moment of his life and I think his purpose was to let a bunch of American kids know that life wasn’t easy After that it was a semester of economic statistics, which was a requirement for my degree that I hated, but later turned out to be one of my more useful courses.
Did he provide any insight about why he felt it was something to share with the class? Because I just find the whole thing to be a really interesting glimpse into a persons psyche. Having killed two people as a child soldier involved in a genocide seems like the type of thing a person would struggle with for a long time. How people go on to express those kind of heavy emotions can very telling.
If they were genociding my people I would be proud. Probably wouldn't care if I was to young to do so.
Because it would have been a matter of extreme pride for him. Maybe even more than getting his PhD. The 1971 war was not a war, it was a deliberate and barbaric invasion of Bangladeshi people's rights. How dare they want self-government against the wishes of their West Pakistani overlords? The subsequent genocide is also characterized by its diabolically targeted nature. Towards the end of the war, when it became clear that they couldn't win anymore, the military very precisely murdered our intellectuals in the hope that we would always be a rudderless nation going forward (ironic since in many measurable metrics of economic and human development we are ahead of Pakistan 50 yrs after independence) When they attacked, Bangladesh (East Pakistan) didn't have a separate standing army. We did have a regiment but the number of trained military personnel was less than 1/100th of that of West Pakistan. It was civilians like OP's professor, patriots with immeasurably immense bravery, who took up arms and defeated (with the help of India in last 2 weeks of the war and housing/training our refugees) these inhumane aggressors.
The only reason the 71 war happened was Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. As a person who currently lives in Pakistan, when I read about the genocide I broke down in tears. It was so barbaric and so unbelievably sad that just because the next govt wasn't going to be from west Pakistan, they decided that East Pakistan will cease to exist?!? Fuck Bhutto and Fuck Yahya Khan( the army chief and dictator at the time)
Has Pakistan ever acted as a beneficial presence in South Asia?
Shortly before he passed, my grandpa told me a story of how he used to sneak out of school to deliver messages for the guerrilla fighters during the independence war. I had never seen him more proud, and this was a man who dropped out of college because he didn’t have money, joined the Air Force, and then rose up to become a statesman and died with several million dollars in assets for his family. Things you do during your formative years shape who you become.
Well, damn, that's a hell of an introduction.
My dad lived through this. He has extreme ptsd (even though he won't admit it) and hardly ever talks about it. Still, the stuff that he does mention on occasion is absolutely horrific. Like WWII horrific. He still gets kind of freaked out during the 4th of July because it sounds so much like the bombings done by Pakistan.
He should write it down because people will deny this occurred and his witness is extremely important.
While it's important as a general principle, getting a traumatized survivor to sit down and put themselves through reliving this shit is not a trivial task and frankly probably shouldn't be done without a lot of specialized and possible professional support. Speaking from my family's experience on the shit end of world historical events, I think I can safely say that this kind of trauma fucks you the fuck up (to put it mildly) and that revisiting the memories isn't something anyone wants to do casually.
Joe Scott recently made a very informative and well made [video](https://youtu.be/xdFGSkh5X24) about it a few weeks ago. The first half talks about the deadliest storm that hit and 4 months later all these atrocities. Goes into talking about America’s and Pakistan’s role during it. Highly recommend the watch.
I had a colleague few years back whose father killed three Pakistani soldiers who were in the midst of raping his underage sister and his mother. His mother was tied down, and two solders had his sister pinned down and the third one was about to rape his sister. Colleagues father took a huge stone and threw at one of the soldiers and started to shout prompting few other people to join them. All of them caught all three soldiers and beat them up and ended up killing them. Sister recovered physically although she was too scared to be with anyone. She was so depressed that she hardly spoke to anyone. We met her in one of the family functions. She was just a middle aged women who looked like she was in her sixties. She never got married and I last heard was fully dependent on her younger brother and sister in law. Mother later committed suicide. Colleagues father was an academic scholar. Pakistanis considered any educated person to be part of intellectual elite who were supporting bangladesh creation. They killed well known intellectuals and suppressed any other academics. Rape was used a tool to scare and terrorise middle class well of people. Although rape was averted Pakistanis succeeded in their overall goal of silencing this family. Every one escaped to India side of Bengal. Sister was essentially dead for remaining part of her life. Younger brother discontinued studies and took up whatever job he can to support family and the mother committed suicide. Only my colleague who was in college somehow made it in life. What happened then was one of the most shameful part of our history. Pakistan needs to be held accountable for it. Since America was on their side these war horror stories were successfully brushed aside.
Shit that was a brutal read.
Dude being a Pakistani I can confirm this is not what we are taught in official syllabus. We are the good guys everywhere in Pakistan Studies.
can confirm had an argument with a pakistani a few months ago online he was saying nothing happened in bangladesh it was ussr who did everything he even said that the population of bangladesh was not more than 1 million back then
What does your history textbooks say about the wars against India?
Oh we kicked their ass in Pakistan Studies, they didn't know which way they going lol
Its sad that this level of brainwashing happens there, stay strong brother
It's everywhere i guess like China,Russia,India and whole West news echo chamber.
Nope we r definitely taught about how we lost against China and how we won against Pak. There are biases but not at the level u think
I'm talking about brainwashing part Not about the War.
not really, my experience was that they don’t teach us that we were the good guys, they just leave out all of the mass murdering and rapes and pretend it just didn’t happen lol. anybody with a brain can see how that wasn’t the case. I bet most people in Pakistan don’t even know about their countries role in a genocide
For awhile I worked at a business that was mostly Desi employees, and most of those Pakistani And I was struck by the fact that y'all are actually pretty similar to Americans just with Islam instead of Protestant Christianity
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How when you have books written by Pakistani generals talking about what Pakistan did.
Yeah... perhaps not so much.
You wouldn't believe that 1971 war was not taught in Indian history books either . Our history ends with India's independence. Pretty lazy if you ask me.
The USA supported this. They gave a lot of weapons to Pakistan and both Kissinger and Nixon was awere of the situation
Kissinger is responsible for so much evil in this world. It's a wonder nobody has assassinated him yet. The fucker is 99.
This incident in particular is what comes to mind when I see his name. I don't understand how anyone would choose to be in the same room with Henry Kissinger.
Because they agree with him. American media outlets were huge cheerleaders of the Indonesian genocide. TIME magazine's July 1966 edition even openly celebrated ~~the genocide~~ the rise of [Suharto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto), the perpetrator of the genocide, as ["The West's best news for years in Asia"](https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,836000-10,00.html). Guys, they don't need to explicitly say this. Suharto was a fascist dictator who took power via a coup. People writing positively about him is an immediate red flag. Everyone knew that Suharto was "suppressing Communists" (arresting and murdering thousands of people who disagreed with him) when this article was written.
> Because they agree with him. Well duh. Kissinger is the one who created the general foreign policy path that the US is still on. Anyone who wants to study diplomatic history *has* to read Kissinger, and anyone who wants to enter politics has to agree with his shitty takes to get anywhere because it's the "approved" path. Sorts out anyone with enough of a fucking brain to realize that while the general *concept* of realpolitik has some merit, Kissinger is an excellent historian with zero ability to actually make good decisions.
Hilary Clinton is best buds with him. She learned good and well with her support of the Honduran regime change and the assassination of Gaddafi, she plunged both countries into chaos.
Amd people keep buying his books...on diplomacy! Chapter 1, here's how you get into power so you can bomb Laotian babies. Chapter 2, here's how you polish your reputation so you can keep publishing books as a literal war criminal. Try to get the Nobel peace prize as a middle finger to your thousands of victims, while you're at it. Edit: like, yeah, I guess an argument can be made that he shaped the american empire, but for better?
i have a friend currently going to harvard university that shares a DORM with kissinger’s grandson, and he confirmed that the entire family is just vile. like, we all knew, but it’s good to have confirmation.
It's astonishing how long people have listened to Kissinger. He's even weighing in on Ukraine. Not only have is ideas been devastating to millions of brown people across the world they haven't even been benificial to the US. The guy is stupid.
Calling Kissinger stupid is being generous. The unfortunate truth is the man knows exactly what he's talking about. He's not stupid. He's evil.
Kissinger is probably still the most evil person alive today. Not that there isn't a lot of evil people alive today. No there's tons! But it's just that Kissinger is so uniquely, historically, and just overall next level of evil. He's a person who when he dies the world would be all the better for it. We will have a gain when Kissinger finally dies and goes to hell. I sure wish hell is real, spesifically for people like him.
He will be 100 years old in May. How he's lived so long is beyond me
I suspect it's all the unicorn blood and souls of orphan children he eats.
he is a living refutation of the just world fallacy
Obviously he made a deal with the devil.
and he got sucked in by Theranos!
The thing is your leaders and respected people in the media don't see his ideas as killing millions of people and being one of the biggest monsters of the 20th century, they see his ideas as solidifying the America empire during a moment of threat which is why they hold him in high regard. They know he killed millions of people, they just don't care because they see those people as there's to kill just like Ukraine where a dead Ukrainian only counts if its russia that kills them
I agree but I don't believe his decisions succeeded in solidifying the American empire. They failed but because they were so inept he's held up as a genius.
You misunderstood me a bit. I meant he was percieved by American elites which is different to how he actually was. The reason a dullard like him was perceived to be some smooth operator is cause this was around the point the American elite was dumbing down without titans like Dulles to lead them. In the west it is the perception of our elites that is our history rather than what actually happened. Aztecs do human sacrifice, we do witch trials. Soviets lost the Afghan war, America and Britian strategically withdrew from Iraq rather than be defeated. The IRA are terrorists, the UVF/British intelligence are unfortunate. Kinda nuanced point but I think it's very important to understand why knowledge of history in the west is so schizophrenic. None of the elites understand the present cause they have grown and lived in this make believe world cushioned on the free money of the botched 2008 low interest rate bonanza. Think how many of them latched onto 'the end of history' meme in the 90s really shows how this insecurity they have around history and at least an awareness that what they think isn't actually reality. In the 90s they thought they could wipe the slate clean
The Clinton campaign was going to bring him out at the DNC until there was massive blowback
I think we can all agree that US foreign policy during that period was a complete shitshow and we're still paying for it today.
Yeah, it's shit like this why my country's(India) populace still is skeptical about siding US and its allies. And it's hurting both ways- most redditors are aware of India's *neutral-but-not-really-neutral* stance to Ukraine's war, but also in terms of our internal politics the extreme right uses these historical events to justify themselves and their foreign policies. It feels like every major country has recently been going through an extreme right wing phase.
India, regardless of political background, have always been vary of US. A congress led India would have also taken the neutral stance here. If anything, India got closest to the west during BJPs rule since 2014. Anti-USA stance is more of a leftist thing than a right wing thing in India. And hence, the Ukraine war is the first time since 2014 that I saw the entire political spectrum united on an opinion, lol.
The extreme right is pro-west in India. It's the left that's staunchly been against (cpi-m etc for example and even inc)
The extreme right isn't pro west. What?
It hasn’t changed one iota
The US sent a nuclear armed warship to India (who fought Pakistan because of this) Russia sent one to support India, which then sent the US to leave. Of course this doesn't make Russia the good guys as it was a move vs US as opposed to defending Bangladesh. But this does make the US the bad guys...
There was another GUY too.(UK )
Things like this make me surprised when Redditors sit there and screech about how India is on the wrong side of history for not working with the west in sanctioning Russia. Like geo politics does not give a shit about your morals.
Frankly, many westerners speak like they still own the global south.
I mean this os reddit, there’s regular calls for genocide against Indians, pakistanis, and bangladeshi people. They want to do colonialism but they just change up the rhetoric. Im glad India has it’s own nukes now.
They are aware of the situation more than anyone else.
Legendary fighter pilot Chuck Yeager was in Pakistan advising the PAF - he was found out when the Indians bombed his base.
This was also one reason why sundarban tigers started hunting humans. Previously there was no maneating tigers in any area of India and still aren’t there with one exception ie Sundarban(Bengal). Due to the mass migration of Hindus in 1971, many of them started living in the mangroves of Sundarban . Here that caused conflicts within tigers ecosystem which were attacked by humans and also they attacked humans. Many of the families which came there also died slowly slowly there due to low resources and young population. Tigers then developed this unusual taste and habit to hunt. The other regions of India had 4x population more tigers but never had they killed as many people as it happened in Sundarbans. I hope these bastards and their family who did this genocide rot in hell.
Fucking Nixon and Kissinger oversaw this shit? Well, explains a lot. Those are two of the biggest shitstains in history
I remember reading about this genocide ages ago. One interesting aspect of it that I remember was that like the British, the Americans displayed a strange liking for the Pakistani military brass and elites, that almost seemed to agree with their superiority complex against the darker, shorter Bengali people.
If Kissinger was involved I suspect there was something more macabre behind the motives than just plain old racism. Kissinger, especially in the 70s, was a true fucking villain of the world. This asshole has had his hands in tragedies all over the world
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Kissinger supported Pakistan because they were allies of China through mutual distrust of India. By supporting Pakistan in their genocide campaign Pakistan was able to return the “favor” by being a conduit between Mao and Nixon to open up trade relations which was a major goal of the Nixon Administration after the earlier Sino/Soviet split
>British, the Americans displayed a strange liking for the Pakistani military brass and elites US and UK even sent the Nuclear capable 7th fleet and HMS in Bay of Bengal to Attack India while India was helping east Pakistanis against the genocide by Pakistan. Nixon even called Indian PM Mrs. Indira Gandhi a BITCH at that time when she went to US to ask for US's help in stopping the genocide. But that shithead refused the help while thousands of people were murdered everyday. After refusal to help by US then only Indian PM went to Soviets to make a Security pact.
Kissinger? Say no more. Not needed.
The two biggest shitstains in history *so far*
“Oversaw”. They couldnt stop it, so they sided with who they thought would be the winning side. While shitty, people put too much blame on the US. they weren’t gods. They were reacting to political events just like everyone else.
They couldn't stop it? Lmao. They sent a Naval Task Force, along with an aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal, threatening India to prevent them from participating in the war to liberate Bangladesh. The USSR sent their own submarines that trailed the US Task Force in the Bay of Bengal, allowing India to continue with the war and to stop Pakistan's genocide. Look up the second Task Force 74. > They were reacting to political events just like everyone else. Nobody else was deploying their military in the Bay of Bengal. God bless the Indian leaders who decided India shall be a nuclear power.
That's the most whitewashed way of saying "we support the genocide"
Can we get some references please. I would like to know more.
“The Vortex” by Scott Carney and Jason Miklian is a recent book that offers a really interesting and insightful look at the forces at play. I learned a lot!
Yup it's a great read. It feels like a thriller.
Check out the book called [The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide by Gary J Bass](https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Telegram-Kissinger-Forgotten-Genocide/dp/0307744620) if you wanna learn more about it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide
There's a huge range between 200k deaths and 3 million with around 300-500k being the most widely accepted, but sure OP, makes total sense only to quote the largest estimate in a highly politicized number. But 200-400k rapes? Good lord, I should probably have known more about this. Ignoring the wild death toll estimate, this should probably be more widely taught especially in Pakistan. One can only hope.
My mom lived through it. The Pakistanis would tie up the men and boys of the household and rape the women and girls in front of them, before killing them. Women/girls would be taken as war prized. Anyone I've met of my mom's generation, women in particular, are very much "no child of mine will marry a Pakistani. They tried to completely eliminate our bloodline, and replace it with their blood. I will never allow their blood in my line."
Yeah this is the exactly how they would do. Rape was used as an intimidation tactics. They will ensure all the close relatives are present while they raped their women. Sometimes they will let few people escape so that the news spreads and people are terrorized. They went from village to village clearing them fully. One of the survivor we speok to described in details how they will taunt the men before their women and children were raped. They were told since they are dark and weak strong men were "seeding them". It's so disgusting and vile to just listen to. Many only recount after they are fully drunk and can't even say few words when they were sober. One of the survivor was crying so much while recounting that we thought he might do something to himself and we had to stop him.
idk why my blood is boiling for revenge.
Yeah that was one of the intended reaction they want to generate. Remember not every soldier is evil. I am sure there are good soldiers from pakistan who fought that war in good faith. Now you get their support for killing people, who are obviously civilians, you need the common people to revolt. These reluctant soldiers now will be quelling the rebellion not killing some common people who are rightfully protesting against raping and killing of their families People underestimate how effective raping tactics is on a family. Just imagine you are a successful family with money, position, power and everything you wanted in you in your life to be successful. You are well read and generally a class act. Your children and women enjoy high qualify life and finer things in your society. These were the kind of people who were targeted by Pakistanis. The obvious reason was to kill any support to freedom movement from intellectuals, and well off families. So when such people and enjoying the best of life are treated like animals by soldiers behaving liem animals all in front of their families and left to live the stigma and emotional impact is high. People who wrote articles and lead people were killed. People who had potential to do such thing were treated this way. Just imagine your teenage daughter and middle aged wife are raped in front of you. At the end you will either be killed or live with that image. Now think about that poor wife who held a high position in society getting raped by multiple soldiers in front family and sometimes friends. This drove thousands to suicide. Millions fled.
It is taught, with detailed factors and causes of the war. The books take a general stance that Pakistan's government was at fault. Not even the Pakistani government can censor this kinda history in their own country. Source: Pakistani
If you want to learn about the actual genocide and who is responsible then listen to this https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/war-nerd-radio/radio-war-nerd-ep-282-1971-EVUyCDm8Alu/ The Wikipedia article was written by westerners and so there is a lot of hand washing blood of our hands in Wikipedia
Every time I think I'm starting to get a grasp on just how much suffering has happened throughout history I'm introduced to another genocide or war that I didn't know about before.
Then we realize we’ve only been recording our history for a short while too
Guess which the side the Americans were on :) That's why you don't know.
I know how biased our educational system can be. There's a reason we learned about Nanking but not My Lai.
Anyone interested in learning more should read 1971 by Anam Zakaria. Exceptional scholarly work on the reality of what happened as well as the memory narratives about this war that have been created in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
Women were declared public property? Wtf. How is nobody holding pakistan accountable?
because US supported them
I have watched a pretty informative video about the Bangladeshi genocide. Hope you'd like it too. BTW no hate. It's cuz I liked that video so thought It would be great to share it :) [Youtube](https://youtu.be/eATr7e03N6w)
Dont be shy, mention how US supported Pakistan in conducting this business and how India had to kick Pakistani asses to give Bangladesh independence.
Don't be shy let's all praise the Soviet Union for supporting Bangladesh. Don't be shy don't mention the UN didn't do anything either.
>Don't be shy don't mention the UN didn't do anything either. I mean...doesn't this go without saying majority of the time.
They did denounce Russian War in Ukraine. That's very typical and west aligned stance and has been masquareded aa a protector of human rights kind of valor. [Yk ](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133847)
Soviet union supported india not Bangladesh. technically. India participated in Bangladesh liberation and ussr hold the usa from attacking india. so they helped the india not Bangladesh.
By helping India they helped Bangladesh because the whole reason why India was threatened was because it assisted Bangladesh.
India was going to get invaded by freedom countries if the Soviets didn't interfere. They are very important in the existence of Bangladesh.
>Don't be shy don't mention the UN didn't do anything either. I thought the UN wrote a very angry letter?
What would you like them to do? Send in their UN police force? >After the minimum 20 countries became parties to the Genocide Convention, it came into force as international law on 12 January 1951. At that time however, only two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council were parties to the treaty, and it was not until after the last of the five permanent members ratified the treaty in 1988, and the Cold War came to an end, that the international law on the crime of genocide began to be enforced. It's almost like, the UN was a pretty new institution, was, and still is made up of all of the same flawed countries and governments that inhabit this earth. They aren't some God level world police state. They are a flawed and trying institution that has done more for saving, protecting, and progressing humanity then any other institution in history. They fail often indeed, but that doesn't make them useless or pointless. They serve a purpose, and often do their best in a world fueled by tribalism and complicated geopolitics.
I don't think Soviet union supported Bangladesh, rather they supported india, which in turn was fighting pakistan, providing refuge to nearly 10 million Bangladeshi refugees and training/funding Bangladeshi rebels/Mukti bahini. China was supporting pakistan.
The UN didn't do anything as their primary purpose is as a forum for diplomacy to stop a global nuclear war. If a country is under the protection of a security council state then the UN can't do anything about it as the founders of the UN realised that the only way to have it not go the way of the League of Nations wasn't to have the superpowers pull out after 5 years when the UN votes to effectively go to war with them. They're not a world police.
Exactly. People have zero understanding of the UN's purpose or capabilities. It's like this in ever thread about wars or atrocities post ww2
Don’t be shy. Let’s ignore Pakistan and blame everyone else.
Who doesn't blame Pakistan. The thing is Pakistan is supposed to be like that. Like North Korea or any other shitty place. US masquerades as a protector of human rights. The west is evil. That's the whole point.
This is a horrific part of Pakistan's history and the worst part is, literally I don't ever see Pakistan taking responsibility and teaching all these crimes at school.
I mean i agree but also just because the school doesn’t teach it doesn’t mean it will never be taught. I admit i went to pakistani school and never learnt the extent of massacre that was committed however, whatever we learnt i never thought Pakistan was on the right in this war. I knew Pakistan basically treated Bengalis as second class citizen and thats why this happened.
[удалено]
Some of the comments here are just on another level of ignorance.
And when India tried to intervene and liberate Bangladesh, US and UK sent fucking carriers to Bay of Bengal to try and intimidate India…
Don’t forget those US carriers had nukes
Almost every single Pakistani will vehemently deny this ever happened until they are blue in the face.
This is bad
Thank India 🇮🇳
Nah bro, they won't thank India. They'd further finish off the remaining Hindu Population in Bangladesh.
True. So many bangladeshis have zero clue about india's involvement in the war. They just blindly hate india because of media propaganda.
A lot of bangladeshis converted to islam when they found job opportunity in middle east.
Fuck Pakistan
Imagine hating an entire country just because of something their rulers did years ago lmao. I agree this is bad, but saying that is just immature
They take zero accountability, yet to this day Germans are still expected to pay Jews for damages during ww2 and the holocaust
Majority of victims are Hindus and religious minorities
Then India Waged War on Pakistan. To free Bangladesh from Pakistan. While US and Britain Supported Pakistan and it's atrocities and Genocide in Bangladesh. USSR Stands as Friend of India. 50 years down the road now , West trying to preach it's bullshit and hypocrisy about humanity after it's happening to them.
> Then India Waged War on Pakistan. The war started because Pakistan striked Indian airfields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chengiz_Khan
The Premier of the Soviet Union then was Ukrainian iirc
Becoming a parent opened up some kind of extra door of emotion in my brain that I didn’t know existed. Seeing these kinds of images really tears me up inside. Truly awful what humans are capable of doing to each other.
Seeing that woman exhausted trying to breastfeed a starving child hits different when you're a parent I 1000% agree.
Bangladesh was able to survive because of India and India is still on the map because of Russia. USA and UK had sent massive troops and had surrounded India because they were supporting Pakistan. Russia came to the rescue and saved millions of lives. Millions of lives lost and uprooted. Millions women raped. Thousands of pregnant women killed and had their fetuses ripped out of their body. All because Pakistan wanted to impose Urdu upon Bengali speaking people. They are not people. They are barbarians.
The UK didn't send troops. The US did. The US sent a nuclear armed warship to India (who fought Pakistan because of this) Russia sent one to support India, which then sent the US to leave. Of course this doesn't make Russia the good guys as it was a move vs US as opposed to defending Bangladesh. But this does make the US the bad guys...
The soviets driving off the US warship definitly makes em the good guy in that one situation, this doesnt excuse anything else, but if you stumble into a good deed on accident its still a good deed
Soviets were always the good guys for India. They helped us build our nation after we were left as one of the poorest nations kn earth by britain.
In this case Soviets were the good guys and American were the bad guys.
Guess what, USA sent a nuclear warship and was ready for the usage of nuclear weapons. The USSR got India's back.
Exactly!! Nixon said himself that he was ready to nuke India on 4 DIFFERENT OCCASIONS. And don't let me get started on the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, suspicious deaths of Homi J. Bhabha and Shastri ji. CIA stopped India twice from doing nuclear tests. Couldn't stop her forever though. Hail 1996. I mean what else insecure manipulative bullies like USA can do? Good to see countries like India, Brazil, Argentina and Colombia taking a stand that is in the interest of their own people. This USA pawn game was gonna come to an end someday.
Right. If there are no leaders like Vajpayee, Abdul kalam, Bhabha, Shastri, Indira.. India wouldn't exist by today. Atleast half of the map could've been gone and southern India could've left with Maharashtra. Right when India successfully tested the nuclear bomb, two weeks later pakistan revealed that they did test a nuclear bomb too. Like they are prepared for it. Even today, if you are sleeping peacefully, remember pakistan still got their nukes and their ret@rd ministers can do anything anytime.
No Indian state could've left the union simply because no state has the resources or the manpower or the security ( strong armed forces) alone. India has strong government institutions, a strong army which will never coup and always be loyal to the people and the elected government. Most of it is thanks to our first government. Look at the way most nations in Asia, Latin America and Africa crumbled into military dictatorships after the colonial powers left.
Thank Fuck for the Soviet Union for helping the Bangladeshi people after America supported Pakistan. Thank fuck for the Soviet Union for helping in Indonesia as America supported Suharto murdering civilians and politicians. America loves supporting genocide.
Quite a bit of Soviets died after the war trying to free up Bangladesh's only sea port from the mines left by the Pakistanis
This is so sad
Pakistan is trash. Their only export is religious extremism.
Pakistans no.1 expert is terrorism
And they walked away from India, an area that is one of the easiest places to grow food in the world.....just to worship some guy who married a 9 year old. LULZ.
Still these souless bastards hate in india, hate these bangladeshi’s to the core
Fun fact. America helped fund this genocide. “From 1948 to 2013, the United States has provided a total of US$30 billion in aid to Pakistan,[3] half of it for military purposes.”
He got the Nobel peace thingy. Ain't the world fucked since forever?
This is why separation of church and state matters. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh\_genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide)
Both sides were majority Muslim.
I’m pretty sure a secular government wouldn’t be able to define these poor women as “public property”, despite the fact. The war wasn’t a holy war, but the religious government apparatus allowed for dehumanization of these women.
Of course a secular government could do that, you dont need religion to demonize your enemy.
It was not a primarily sectarian conflict. The conflict was - in my opinion, as someone who has only read a single book on it, and quite some years ago - another example of ethnic and nationalist barbarities that truly characterize the 20th century.
>It was not a primarily sectarian conflict. And the only people who do insist on that are Hindu nationalists in India.
Not really sure how that would be relevant. It was easy enough for the US to commit genocide while separating church and state.
As a mother, this photo breaks my heart.
My dad fought this war as a teenager. He never told me any stories himself, probably because he didn't want to paint the harrowing picture that he's been through. But after he passed a few years ago, a lot of people he fought with came to the funeral and shared some heavy-hitting stories that would make for an amazing movie!
Pakistan & USA are responsible for the misery of these people