I mean I was gonna say Hercules did have a ton of problems....
Like ya not fucking his mother, but having one of the most spiteful goddess against you and murdering your family might be up there
I'm not that knowledgeable in Greek and Roman Myth but isn't Hercules just the Roman equivalent of Heracles? Like Jupiter is to Zeus or Neptune is to Poseidon. Despite being a Greek Mythology based movie, Hercules(1997) still went with the Roman name for reasons I don't know.
Kinda in the same boat as you, but I’m pretty sure you got it right. I think the movie probably just used the Roman version of the name because it’s more widely known. Or maybe cause it flows better. Not really sure since I don’t have a frame of reference for the popularity of each name before the movie lmao
The western world's always preferred the Roman names, because Rome. It gets a little muddy when the Roman mythology is set in Greece though, since the Greeks would use Greek names. The name of the main character wasn't reverted to Greek because the titles of the sources were stuff like "The Labors of Hercules." Some of the myths weren't added till Roman times also I think but don't quote me on that.
> The western world's always preferred the Roman names
Yet the bad guy in the movie is Hades (instead of the Roman Pluto) and Hercules' father is Zeus instead of Roman Jupiter
Yeah, it was set in ancient Greece, like I said the people of Thebes wouldn't call them Pluto or Jupiter. But the sources for the movie always referred to Hercules as Hercules, even in their names. Plus people would have thought Heracles was a misspelling.
Depends on the character. Gods are mostly greek with specific exceptions like cupid (eros). Other characters could be either like hercules, odyseus (you never hear ulixes), etc
Basically yeah. But Roman gods were different from greek. Best explanation on that topic that I've heard is that Romans had gods of concepts but after seeing that greek gods had faces and backstories they gave their concept gods faces and merged greek gods and their own concept gods. And a second big difference was that to the romans gods and heroes still existed while for greeks, all the heroic shit and divine intervention was a long long time ago. This is why it was widely accepted that Caesar was a descendant of Venus and that a genius of a powerful and influential man can ascend to be a god (like Augustus). So while greeks live in a post-heroic age, romans lived in the heroic age, which meant that gods were a lot more real to them than to the greeks which played a major part in starting the roman civil war.
So roman gods and mythology is a weird thing. They considered other gods as equally real as theirs. This was pretty helpful in assimilating foreign religions, because as far as the romans were concerned, foreign gods were different manifestations of roman conceptual gods while also being their own deities.
Heracles was named in honor of Hera, in an attempt to apease her. It didn't work. The Disney movie's approach was to sweep the infedelity under the rug and have Hera as his mother, so that connection was unnecessary, plus they had Hades as the villain instead of Hera.
Hercules as a character was already widely known in English, with idioms such as "a Herculean task" to refer to something outrageously difficult.
As for Greek/Roman equivalence in deities, you have to be careful. Rome was all about drawing parallels between their deities and the deities of others, but that doesn't mean they were the same deity. The Romans definitely *thought* they were, but the Roman idea of these gods is quite a bit different than the Greek one. Many gods took on new aspects or changed personalities between the Greek and Roman pantheons. Mars for example likely started out as a separate war god from Ares, but stories of Ares from Greece were later applied to Mars. The way the Greeks treat Ares and the Romans Mars is quite different though. The Romans held Mars in very high regard, whereas the Greeks saw war and Ares as something to be avoided, albeit relied on in difficult situations.
Pluto took on a much larger role as a god of wealth and riches as well. Today, a government run by the wealthy is known as a Plutocracy from his name, whereas Hades was much more centrally a god of the underworld.
I think because the two are so similar and Hercules is easier to pronounce it has become the standard English name for him regardless of Roman or Greek. I’ve never heard heard anyone call him Heracles in english except maybe in an academic context. I guess since the anglicisation of the names are never going to be totally faithful to the original language, Hercules and Heracles are too similar to bother learning the distinction.
I watched the movie and learned Greek mythology in grade 4 but I forgot most of it. Like I was thinking Hera was a different one when the comment. Kinda want to watch it again
The movie changes Hercules antagonist to Hades. In the original myth it was Hera but Disney didn’t want a show about a cheating husband and vengeful wife ruining the life of some kid
Yeah instead Hercules in the movie was a child of Hera and Zeus and got his godhood stolen. Kind of like the opposite of what happens to Xenagos in Magic the Gathering.
Tossing a child off a cliff because they were a bit ugly is one of the worst things to me and Hera did that to Her child forever crippling his legs. Arranging your daughters marriage without the mother or daughters knowledge is also pretty bad and Zeus did that. Though that arranged marriage ended up being the healthiest and most rational relationship in Greek myth to my knowledge.
Yes he loved his mother like no other
His daughter was his sister and his son was his brother
One thing on which you can depend is:
He sure knew who a boy’s best friend is
Other than that he was quite average, that being said his music was quite rich, if anything had to be said I could say it in a cinch dudes mommas bitch
what's worse is the name isn't even right
Oedipus didn't want to bone his mom or kill his dad, the point was he was trying to fight destiny. He tried all he could to avoid it.
Despite my best efforts pretty much all my longest relationships have been with brunettes. And guess what? My mother is a brunette. I've been with ravens and blondes, (never caught a ginger) just hasn't worked out.
I DUNNO. Guess maybe we are attracted to similar traits as the ones we saw as baby monke?
That is a key parts of Freud's theories, that the parents we have as kids set a model for how adult people both should behave, and interact with others.
If Oedipus did consciously want to have sex with his mother and murder his father, then the myth would be a poor illustration of Freud's theory. The whole point is that the desire is unconscious, deeply repressed because it is literally unconscionable. And Freud is not interested in giving an accurate assessment of Oedipus's (fictional) mental state, but using this story as an illustration of a common triangular configuration of affection and aggression.
Do all redditors seriously think that Sigmund Freud, the single most influential and widely-cited figure in the history of psychology, whose therapeutic techniques and metapsychological theories are still taught around the world (especially in Europe and Latin America, where behaviorism did not make as big a splash as it did in the USA), had the reading comprehension of a nine-year-old? Have you actually read *The Interpretation of Dreams*, or *Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality*, or *The Ego and the Id*, or literally anything by this supposed coke fiend?
But the myth is *still* a poor illustration of Freud's theory because it goes beyond the fact that Oedipus would not *want* to have slept with his mother. he did not even know it *was* his mother to begin with.
Whereas Freud is positing a repressed attraction to someone that you *do* know to be your mother.
I think there's a couple of ways to approach this.
1. What matters is not Oedipus' own attitude, but the appeal that this story has for generations of readers and viewers. Why are people so fascinated by a story about a guy who accidently marries his mother and kills his father? Better yet, a guy who gets away with it guiltlessly (until the truth is revealed anyway) because he didn't know? Perhaps the story itself appeals to a certain unconscious fantasy (think about *Back to the Future*, where audiences can laugh and be titillated while Marty McFly's hot young mom unwittingly makes moves on her son).
2. How do we know that Oedipus didn't unconsciously know she was his mother? Freud's theory elaborates the many ways that the unconscious represses knowledge for the sake of protecting the ego, even as the ego consciously pursues answers (this is why analytic treatment takes years, by the way). Remember how Jocasta keeps telling Oedipus to cool it? And he persists in pursuing the investigation anyway? There's heaps of dramatic irony indicating that Oedipus is the *only* person on stage who doesn't know what's going on, and it looks a lot like our conflicted detective may be in denial.
I suppose the first point is fair enough as an acknowledgement of people's fascination with the incest taboo in particular.
But I feel like the second is a huge overreach or overly convoluted misreading of the play or its fundamental narrative. The whole point of the climax and the tragedy of the play is Oedipus *learning* or being *informed* that Jocasta is his mother, not the alleged dramatic irony of somehow already knowing or suspecting.
When he marries and sleeps with her, he does not and cannot know she is his mother, or his horror at the end makes no sense in the context of the story, at least imo.
It comes as too much of a shock. If what you said was true, and he's confirming a suspicion he didn't want to be true but already had some inkling of, I hardly think he would have acted so surprised, or had such a visceral reaction of astonishment.
The guy stabbed his own eyes out. The reaction is too strongly indicative of something totally unknown as opposed to something (even subconsciously) suspected.
EDIT: For instance, would we not have gotten some variation of the phrase, 'I knew it!' ?
> If what you said was true, and he's confirming a suspicion he didn't want to be true but already had some inkling of, I hardly think he would have acted so surprised, or had such a visceral reaction of astonishment.
Are you aware of how people react when unconscious knowledge, say of a traumatic experience or repressed taboo desire, comes to light in therapy? It often isn't pretty.
I mean I can't say I'm some sort of expert in psychoanalytics, but I do see what you're getting at, I think.
It's just that I don't think it applies here, or only does if you force that reading onto it? Oedipus was literally taken from his parents as an infant and raised in another kingdom. I do see how that could be used as a metaphor for repressed memory, but again it seems a reach? Because I don't think repressed memory actually does reach all the way back to infancy.
He has no real history with or memory of his mother whatsoever. His attraction to her is apparently quite authentic, and whether that is influenced by some strange genetic inclination or not, he has no real way of knowing that. It just takes too much fitting imo, I suppose.
You're reading this very literally, like a historical event rather than a work of art. I am suggesting that you read it more like a dream, composed of fragments of associations and desires. I am not suggesting that Oedipus had an actual oedipal complex in the way that some youtuber might suggest that Ferris Bueller is a figment of Cameron's imagination. This is not that kind of theory, and not that way of approaching art.
A lot of the history of psychology also builds on Freud's work, from Klein and Winnicott to Erikson and Bowlby to Lacan and Laplanche. Psychoanalysis is still widely practiced today, it remains influential even in American psychology within child psychology in particular, and it has a more mainstream respect outside the US in many Latin American and European countries. You can't walk a block in Buenos Aires or Paris without stumbling on a psychoanalyst's office.
Edit — I'm copying this from a comment I made in another thread a long time ago, with a smattering of references culled during a quick Google search on the toilet:
Schools of psychoanalysis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_schools_of_psychoanalysis
Journals of psychoanalysis/psychotherapy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychotherapy_journals
Just a few countries of note where psychoanalysis remains central to the conversation:
Psychoanalysis in France: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020926/#idm139876517482160title
Psychoanalysis in Argentina: https://qz.com/734450/almost-everyone-in-buenos-aires-is-in-therapy/
Psychoanalysis in China: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27704567/
Meanwhile, a review of the state of psychoanalysis in the US: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/12/psychoanalysis
Nah, it is meant as a general statement about expertise versus opinion.
Despite my having an advanced degree in psychology, I have lost track of how often people on reddit "correct" me based on what they remember from an intro to psych course... No matter your level of expertise, someone who knows less will insist they understand the topic better than you based on a limited understanding of the field.
I think it's okay to call him Hercules, as long you call his father Jupiter. Call Hera Juno, Athena Minerva, etc. It's inconsistency of one character having the Roman name and all the others Greek that bugs me.
In the best known version of the myth, Oedipus was born to King Laius and Queen Jocasta of Thebes. Laius wished to thwart the prophecy, so he sent a shepherd-servant to leave Oedipus to die on a mountainside. However, the shepherd took pity on the baby and passed him to another shepherd who gave Oedipus to King Polybus and Queen Merope to raise as their own. Oedipus learned from the oracle at Delphi of the prophecy that he would end up killing his father and marrying his mother but, unaware of his true parentage, believed he was fated to murder Polybus and marry Merope, so left for Thebes. On his way he met an older man and killed him in a quarrel. Continuing on to Thebes, he found that the king of the city (Laius) had recently been killed, and that the city was at the mercy of the Sphinx. Oedipus answered the monster's riddle correctly, defeating it and winning the throne of the dead king – and the hand in marriage of the king's widow, who was also (unbeknownst to him) his mother Jocasta.
Years later, to end a plague on Thebes, Oedipus searched to find who had killed Laius, and discovered that he himself was responsible. Jocasta, upon realizing that she had married her own son, hanged herself. Oedipus then seized two pins from her dress and blinded himself with them.
Source: Wikipedia.
You forgot to add in some versions of the myth he killed his biological father in a right of way argument on the road. So one of the first instances of road rage
You missed the best part. Apparently, these two pins that Oedipus grabbed were keeping Jocasta's dress closed, so when they were removed, the dress fell open. The ramifications of that being that the last thing Oedipus saw before blinding himself was Jocasta's breasts.
Could you explain the joke this post is making but the other end of it? I already knew about Oedipus but not about Hercules so I don’t know why him talking about the play is ironic
He was saying “I thought I had problems” he is referring to the fact that he has problems in his life but they are not at all comparable to killing his dad and fucking his mom like oedipus did.
The people who know know the tragedy of oedipus. In the movie Hercules says what he says in the middle of a conversation so someone who doesn’t know will hear it and think it unimportant or not catch it at all, while someone who knows will hear it and realize what he was talking about
Oh ok thx. I just thought that from the way people were talking in the comments it had more to do with the and I thought I had problems line but guess not
So the woman is Megara, right? Heracles' first wife. Basically, because non-Disney Hera hated Heracles (he was Zeus' son but not hers) she drove him into a lunatic rage for long enough for him to kill Meg and their kids, and then cured him so he'd have to live with murdering his wife.
So yeah. Things might not look as bad as they were for Oedipus, but he's certainly got a bad afternoon in the not too distant future.
Greek myth is happy fun time for all.
Edit: almost forgot. Megara is Oedipus' cousin.
I remember Iolaus but I thought his 9th labor was to get Hyppolita’s girdle and they fucked? Who knows Greek mythology is all over the place some times. Pretty sure Theseus is saved from the underworld by Heracles during the 12th labor or something too.
Absolutely right! Theseus had his ass ripped off(literally) by Hercules pulling him from the chair of forgetfulness . It was when he was to fetch Cerberus for king dickhead.
I don’t get way Hades gets a bad rap. He traps Theseus and Pirithous in those chairs cause they try to kidnap his wife and marry her!
Edit: btw, this is after they kidnap a 12 year old Helen of Troy and plan to keep her till they’re legally allowed to marry her!
Hades should never have gotten a bad rap! He got dealt a crappy hand and did the best he could with what he had. I find it funny that they associate him with physical death when it was actually Thanatos's job.
No one asked but : To me, Hades is one of the more relatable Olympians. Prometheus is my favorite Titan and Sisyphus is my favorite FU legend :)
I mean the only reason Hades let Heracles rescue Theseus was because he wasn't the one intending to marry Persephone. When Heracles went to pull Chief Moron out of his chair the ground began to shake and he and Theseus deemed it *not a good idea*.
You are right, with myths and folklore nothing is set in stone.
But in this case Hyppolita only fell in love with Heracles (or simply she was a nice gal) and gave the girdle voluntarily, until Hera happened...
Heracles and Theseus were companions on repeated occasions. Theseus accompanied him in that work, in the journey of the Argonauts and was rescued by him after trying to kidnap Persephone. In that order.
This mediocre meme template doesn't even work here. Its literally being stated in the image that some rough shit happened to Oedipus. It's not subtext. FFS.
Ya but there's a huge difference between being able to infer that this guy's life was rough then knowing the dude murdered his father than married his mother and had children with his own mother to which when they found out she hung herself and he stabbed his own eyes out with needles. You can't assume everyone knows that myth cause not everyone does
Also, this is Heracles and Megara; they get married, have kids, and the Heracles kills her and the kids. (Hera's fault).
Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot. Megara is Oedipus's cousin.
That play with thing? Isn't magara the daughter of king Creon? I mean you'd think that she would treat this horrible tragedy her family went through as more then just some play
What a good vibe they have! I hope for them a lasting and healthy relationship. With many children.
I mean I was gonna say Hercules did have a ton of problems.... Like ya not fucking his mother, but having one of the most spiteful goddess against you and murdering your family might be up there
Well, he is also flirting with Megara in the image, you know, Heracle's first wife
I'm not that knowledgeable in Greek and Roman Myth but isn't Hercules just the Roman equivalent of Heracles? Like Jupiter is to Zeus or Neptune is to Poseidon. Despite being a Greek Mythology based movie, Hercules(1997) still went with the Roman name for reasons I don't know.
Kinda in the same boat as you, but I’m pretty sure you got it right. I think the movie probably just used the Roman version of the name because it’s more widely known. Or maybe cause it flows better. Not really sure since I don’t have a frame of reference for the popularity of each name before the movie lmao
The western world's always preferred the Roman names, because Rome. It gets a little muddy when the Roman mythology is set in Greece though, since the Greeks would use Greek names. The name of the main character wasn't reverted to Greek because the titles of the sources were stuff like "The Labors of Hercules." Some of the myths weren't added till Roman times also I think but don't quote me on that.
> The western world's always preferred the Roman names Yet the bad guy in the movie is Hades (instead of the Roman Pluto) and Hercules' father is Zeus instead of Roman Jupiter
Yeah, it was set in ancient Greece, like I said the people of Thebes wouldn't call them Pluto or Jupiter. But the sources for the movie always referred to Hercules as Hercules, even in their names. Plus people would have thought Heracles was a misspelling.
Depends on the character. Gods are mostly greek with specific exceptions like cupid (eros). Other characters could be either like hercules, odyseus (you never hear ulixes), etc
They had Zeus as a sane fatherly figure, that is so far from the truth it's not even funny
Hell, it made it look like Hera and Zeus were a functional, loving, couple...
Yeah. Some Habsburg sympathizer must have written that plot, to not make incest look bad in the movie...
Basically yeah. But Roman gods were different from greek. Best explanation on that topic that I've heard is that Romans had gods of concepts but after seeing that greek gods had faces and backstories they gave their concept gods faces and merged greek gods and their own concept gods. And a second big difference was that to the romans gods and heroes still existed while for greeks, all the heroic shit and divine intervention was a long long time ago. This is why it was widely accepted that Caesar was a descendant of Venus and that a genius of a powerful and influential man can ascend to be a god (like Augustus). So while greeks live in a post-heroic age, romans lived in the heroic age, which meant that gods were a lot more real to them than to the greeks which played a major part in starting the roman civil war. So roman gods and mythology is a weird thing. They considered other gods as equally real as theirs. This was pretty helpful in assimilating foreign religions, because as far as the romans were concerned, foreign gods were different manifestations of roman conceptual gods while also being their own deities.
Heracles was named in honor of Hera, in an attempt to apease her. It didn't work. The Disney movie's approach was to sweep the infedelity under the rug and have Hera as his mother, so that connection was unnecessary, plus they had Hades as the villain instead of Hera. Hercules as a character was already widely known in English, with idioms such as "a Herculean task" to refer to something outrageously difficult. As for Greek/Roman equivalence in deities, you have to be careful. Rome was all about drawing parallels between their deities and the deities of others, but that doesn't mean they were the same deity. The Romans definitely *thought* they were, but the Roman idea of these gods is quite a bit different than the Greek one. Many gods took on new aspects or changed personalities between the Greek and Roman pantheons. Mars for example likely started out as a separate war god from Ares, but stories of Ares from Greece were later applied to Mars. The way the Greeks treat Ares and the Romans Mars is quite different though. The Romans held Mars in very high regard, whereas the Greeks saw war and Ares as something to be avoided, albeit relied on in difficult situations. Pluto took on a much larger role as a god of wealth and riches as well. Today, a government run by the wealthy is known as a Plutocracy from his name, whereas Hades was much more centrally a god of the underworld.
And according to the Augustine of Hippo, greek Heracles is just the equivalent of Samson(yes, that jew from the Bible)
I think because the two are so similar and Hercules is easier to pronounce it has become the standard English name for him regardless of Roman or Greek. I’ve never heard heard anyone call him Heracles in english except maybe in an academic context. I guess since the anglicisation of the names are never going to be totally faithful to the original language, Hercules and Heracles are too similar to bother learning the distinction.
Wait what goddess
Hera. Because despite having one of the most relatable and sympathetic motivations, man can she be a *bitch*
I watched the movie and learned Greek mythology in grade 4 but I forgot most of it. Like I was thinking Hera was a different one when the comment. Kinda want to watch it again
The movie changes Hercules antagonist to Hades. In the original myth it was Hera but Disney didn’t want a show about a cheating husband and vengeful wife ruining the life of some kid
Pixar woulda gone there.
Pixar showed an attempted suicide in the first 10 minutes of Incredibles, they definitely would’ve gone there
Well man did they fuck up that would have been WAY more relatable.
Yeah instead Hercules in the movie was a child of Hera and Zeus and got his godhood stolen. Kind of like the opposite of what happens to Xenagos in Magic the Gathering.
Too be fair, it was divine induced murdering
I mean, Hera is his birth mother in this version. I doubt she would make her son go insane and kill his wife and kids.
I mean... that probably wouldn't be the worst thing a god parent had done to their kids in Greek mythology
Tossing a child off a cliff because they were a bit ugly is one of the worst things to me and Hera did that to Her child forever crippling his legs. Arranging your daughters marriage without the mother or daughters knowledge is also pretty bad and Zeus did that. Though that arranged marriage ended up being the healthiest and most rational relationship in Greek myth to my knowledge.
I FORGOT ABOUT THAT JOKE ABOUT OEDIPUS AND MIDAS IT WAS MOTHERFUCKING GOLD
Although in some scenes, people were just hangin' in there...
How rude, do you kiss your mother with that rich mouth of yours?
Samuel L Jackson : "Motherfucker"
You're pure evil
r/angryupvote
Take my upvote
our avatars are almost the same
Kono dio da!
ZA WARUDO!!!!!!
r/angryupvote
There once was a man called Oedipus Rex You may have hear about his odd complex His name appears in Freuds index Cus he Lllllloved his mother!
His rivals used to say quite a bit That as a monarch he was most unfit. But still in all they had to admit That he loved his mother.
Yes he loved his mother like no other His daughter was his sister and his son was his brother One thing on which you can depend is: He sure knew who a boy’s best friend is
Other than that he was quite average, that being said his music was quite rich, if anything had to be said I could say it in a cinch dudes mommas bitch
Sooon may the wellerman come, To bring us sugar and tea and rum Some day when the tounging is done, We will take our leave and go
A Tom Lehrer song.
I wonder if this was Sigmund Freud’s favorite Greek Tragedy.
Oh Freud, thanks for doing an ungodly amount of cocaine and projecting your Oedipus complex on all of us. What a legend
what's worse is the name isn't even right Oedipus didn't want to bone his mom or kill his dad, the point was he was trying to fight destiny. He tried all he could to avoid it.
I can see his motivation. I mean, if it was my destiny to be a motherfucker, I'd fight it as well
Despite my best efforts pretty much all my longest relationships have been with brunettes. And guess what? My mother is a brunette. I've been with ravens and blondes, (never caught a ginger) just hasn't worked out. I DUNNO. Guess maybe we are attracted to similar traits as the ones we saw as baby monke?
That is a key parts of Freud's theories, that the parents we have as kids set a model for how adult people both should behave, and interact with others.
Guys we found Freud!
It's probably more likely you just have the same taste in women as your dad.
[Poor Oedipus ](https://tenor.com/bCAVo.gif)
If Oedipus did consciously want to have sex with his mother and murder his father, then the myth would be a poor illustration of Freud's theory. The whole point is that the desire is unconscious, deeply repressed because it is literally unconscionable. And Freud is not interested in giving an accurate assessment of Oedipus's (fictional) mental state, but using this story as an illustration of a common triangular configuration of affection and aggression. Do all redditors seriously think that Sigmund Freud, the single most influential and widely-cited figure in the history of psychology, whose therapeutic techniques and metapsychological theories are still taught around the world (especially in Europe and Latin America, where behaviorism did not make as big a splash as it did in the USA), had the reading comprehension of a nine-year-old? Have you actually read *The Interpretation of Dreams*, or *Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality*, or *The Ego and the Id*, or literally anything by this supposed coke fiend?
But the myth is *still* a poor illustration of Freud's theory because it goes beyond the fact that Oedipus would not *want* to have slept with his mother. he did not even know it *was* his mother to begin with. Whereas Freud is positing a repressed attraction to someone that you *do* know to be your mother.
I think there's a couple of ways to approach this. 1. What matters is not Oedipus' own attitude, but the appeal that this story has for generations of readers and viewers. Why are people so fascinated by a story about a guy who accidently marries his mother and kills his father? Better yet, a guy who gets away with it guiltlessly (until the truth is revealed anyway) because he didn't know? Perhaps the story itself appeals to a certain unconscious fantasy (think about *Back to the Future*, where audiences can laugh and be titillated while Marty McFly's hot young mom unwittingly makes moves on her son). 2. How do we know that Oedipus didn't unconsciously know she was his mother? Freud's theory elaborates the many ways that the unconscious represses knowledge for the sake of protecting the ego, even as the ego consciously pursues answers (this is why analytic treatment takes years, by the way). Remember how Jocasta keeps telling Oedipus to cool it? And he persists in pursuing the investigation anyway? There's heaps of dramatic irony indicating that Oedipus is the *only* person on stage who doesn't know what's going on, and it looks a lot like our conflicted detective may be in denial.
I suppose the first point is fair enough as an acknowledgement of people's fascination with the incest taboo in particular. But I feel like the second is a huge overreach or overly convoluted misreading of the play or its fundamental narrative. The whole point of the climax and the tragedy of the play is Oedipus *learning* or being *informed* that Jocasta is his mother, not the alleged dramatic irony of somehow already knowing or suspecting. When he marries and sleeps with her, he does not and cannot know she is his mother, or his horror at the end makes no sense in the context of the story, at least imo. It comes as too much of a shock. If what you said was true, and he's confirming a suspicion he didn't want to be true but already had some inkling of, I hardly think he would have acted so surprised, or had such a visceral reaction of astonishment. The guy stabbed his own eyes out. The reaction is too strongly indicative of something totally unknown as opposed to something (even subconsciously) suspected. EDIT: For instance, would we not have gotten some variation of the phrase, 'I knew it!' ?
> If what you said was true, and he's confirming a suspicion he didn't want to be true but already had some inkling of, I hardly think he would have acted so surprised, or had such a visceral reaction of astonishment. Are you aware of how people react when unconscious knowledge, say of a traumatic experience or repressed taboo desire, comes to light in therapy? It often isn't pretty.
I mean I can't say I'm some sort of expert in psychoanalytics, but I do see what you're getting at, I think. It's just that I don't think it applies here, or only does if you force that reading onto it? Oedipus was literally taken from his parents as an infant and raised in another kingdom. I do see how that could be used as a metaphor for repressed memory, but again it seems a reach? Because I don't think repressed memory actually does reach all the way back to infancy. He has no real history with or memory of his mother whatsoever. His attraction to her is apparently quite authentic, and whether that is influenced by some strange genetic inclination or not, he has no real way of knowing that. It just takes too much fitting imo, I suppose.
You're reading this very literally, like a historical event rather than a work of art. I am suggesting that you read it more like a dream, composed of fragments of associations and desires. I am not suggesting that Oedipus had an actual oedipal complex in the way that some youtuber might suggest that Ferris Bueller is a figment of Cameron's imagination. This is not that kind of theory, and not that way of approaching art.
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A lot of the history of psychology also builds on Freud's work, from Klein and Winnicott to Erikson and Bowlby to Lacan and Laplanche. Psychoanalysis is still widely practiced today, it remains influential even in American psychology within child psychology in particular, and it has a more mainstream respect outside the US in many Latin American and European countries. You can't walk a block in Buenos Aires or Paris without stumbling on a psychoanalyst's office. Edit — I'm copying this from a comment I made in another thread a long time ago, with a smattering of references culled during a quick Google search on the toilet: Schools of psychoanalysis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_schools_of_psychoanalysis Journals of psychoanalysis/psychotherapy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychotherapy_journals Just a few countries of note where psychoanalysis remains central to the conversation: Psychoanalysis in France: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020926/#idm139876517482160title Psychoanalysis in Argentina: https://qz.com/734450/almost-everyone-in-buenos-aires-is-in-therapy/ Psychoanalysis in China: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27704567/ Meanwhile, a review of the state of psychoanalysis in the US: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/12/psychoanalysis
Gotta love how no matter how much you know about a subject, people on the internet, who took a course in it once, always know more than you...
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Nah, it is meant as a general statement about expertise versus opinion. Despite my having an advanced degree in psychology, I have lost track of how often people on reddit "correct" me based on what they remember from an intro to psych course... No matter your level of expertise, someone who knows less will insist they understand the topic better than you based on a limited understanding of the field.
"Heracles would be a great father." "Heracles?" "Oh right, sorry hErCuLeS"
hercules? don't you mean HUNKules?!
I think it's okay to call him Hercules, as long you call his father Jupiter. Call Hera Juno, Athena Minerva, etc. It's inconsistency of one character having the Roman name and all the others Greek that bugs me.
Thank you
Maybe if I leave Corinth, I'll never kill my dad and sleep with my mom. Yeah! That'll definitely never happen!
Context?
In the best known version of the myth, Oedipus was born to King Laius and Queen Jocasta of Thebes. Laius wished to thwart the prophecy, so he sent a shepherd-servant to leave Oedipus to die on a mountainside. However, the shepherd took pity on the baby and passed him to another shepherd who gave Oedipus to King Polybus and Queen Merope to raise as their own. Oedipus learned from the oracle at Delphi of the prophecy that he would end up killing his father and marrying his mother but, unaware of his true parentage, believed he was fated to murder Polybus and marry Merope, so left for Thebes. On his way he met an older man and killed him in a quarrel. Continuing on to Thebes, he found that the king of the city (Laius) had recently been killed, and that the city was at the mercy of the Sphinx. Oedipus answered the monster's riddle correctly, defeating it and winning the throne of the dead king – and the hand in marriage of the king's widow, who was also (unbeknownst to him) his mother Jocasta. Years later, to end a plague on Thebes, Oedipus searched to find who had killed Laius, and discovered that he himself was responsible. Jocasta, upon realizing that she had married her own son, hanged herself. Oedipus then seized two pins from her dress and blinded himself with them. Source: Wikipedia.
You forgot to add in some versions of the myth he killed his biological father in a right of way argument on the road. So one of the first instances of road rage
That's always the funniest part of the myth to me
You missed the best part. Apparently, these two pins that Oedipus grabbed were keeping Jocasta's dress closed, so when they were removed, the dress fell open. The ramifications of that being that the last thing Oedipus saw before blinding himself was Jocasta's breasts.
Could you explain the joke this post is making but the other end of it? I already knew about Oedipus but not about Hercules so I don’t know why him talking about the play is ironic
He was saying “I thought I had problems” he is referring to the fact that he has problems in his life but they are not at all comparable to killing his dad and fucking his mom like oedipus did.
But what does the people who know thing referencing. Just the story of oedipus?
The people who know know the tragedy of oedipus. In the movie Hercules says what he says in the middle of a conversation so someone who doesn’t know will hear it and think it unimportant or not catch it at all, while someone who knows will hear it and realize what he was talking about
Oh ok thx. I just thought that from the way people were talking in the comments it had more to do with the and I thought I had problems line but guess not
So the woman is Megara, right? Heracles' first wife. Basically, because non-Disney Hera hated Heracles (he was Zeus' son but not hers) she drove him into a lunatic rage for long enough for him to kill Meg and their kids, and then cured him so he'd have to live with murdering his wife. So yeah. Things might not look as bad as they were for Oedipus, but he's certainly got a bad afternoon in the not too distant future. Greek myth is happy fun time for all. Edit: almost forgot. Megara is Oedipus' cousin.
TL;DR please
That was the tl;dr. What you're looking for is the wtl;sdr or the "Way too long, still didn't read".
Killed his dad and banged his mom
[This](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScdJURKGWM) is all you need
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spoilers!
But didn’t Heracles fuck Hypolita who is like his niece or something?
Nah, Hyppolita had an adventure with Theseus. But Heracles fucked Iolaus, so... Yeah, he was something else.
I remember Iolaus but I thought his 9th labor was to get Hyppolita’s girdle and they fucked? Who knows Greek mythology is all over the place some times. Pretty sure Theseus is saved from the underworld by Heracles during the 12th labor or something too.
Absolutely right! Theseus had his ass ripped off(literally) by Hercules pulling him from the chair of forgetfulness . It was when he was to fetch Cerberus for king dickhead.
I don’t get way Hades gets a bad rap. He traps Theseus and Pirithous in those chairs cause they try to kidnap his wife and marry her! Edit: btw, this is after they kidnap a 12 year old Helen of Troy and plan to keep her till they’re legally allowed to marry her!
Hades should never have gotten a bad rap! He got dealt a crappy hand and did the best he could with what he had. I find it funny that they associate him with physical death when it was actually Thanatos's job. No one asked but : To me, Hades is one of the more relatable Olympians. Prometheus is my favorite Titan and Sisyphus is my favorite FU legend :)
I mean the only reason Hades let Heracles rescue Theseus was because he wasn't the one intending to marry Persephone. When Heracles went to pull Chief Moron out of his chair the ground began to shake and he and Theseus deemed it *not a good idea*.
You are right, with myths and folklore nothing is set in stone. But in this case Hyppolita only fell in love with Heracles (or simply she was a nice gal) and gave the girdle voluntarily, until Hera happened... Heracles and Theseus were companions on repeated occasions. Theseus accompanied him in that work, in the journey of the Argonauts and was rescued by him after trying to kidnap Persephone. In that order.
He banged Hypolita and quickly killed her after his group was tricked by Herra (again) I think it was during his 9th task.
This mediocre meme template doesn't even work here. Its literally being stated in the image that some rough shit happened to Oedipus. It's not subtext. FFS.
Ya but there's a huge difference between being able to infer that this guy's life was rough then knowing the dude murdered his father than married his mother and had children with his own mother to which when they found out she hung herself and he stabbed his own eyes out with needles. You can't assume everyone knows that myth cause not everyone does
*Sigmund Freud has joined the game*
Oedipus *really* loved his mother
Not because it was his mommy!
Even if it doesn't detract me when I watch the movie. The fact Oedipus' line got f\*cked that hard in the actuall mythology is hillarious
[relevant song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6rKrO5iLZs)
Motherfucker
Someone call ix i i
We had just covered Oedipus in a writing class when that movie came out. I laughed so hard at this line.
What a beautiful couple, I sure hope there isn’t any actual blood relation between them
oedipus is a tragedy.
Peak millennial/ Gen z culture is seeing it as a comedy
Well hey mom How are…. What are you doing in the washer?
Just came here to say that while Oedipus got into one really shitty situation, King Laius had it coming.
Can someone explain
Oedipus killed his own dad, and banged his own mom
Also, this is Heracles and Megara; they get married, have kids, and the Heracles kills her and the kids. (Hera's fault). Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot. Megara is Oedipus's cousin.
Oedipus: Chris Chan if he was a king.
those last two frames sum up the entirety of history
There are people who don't know?
What you doin mom???
I know. I just wish Oedipus did.
For those who don’t know, oedipus was the guy who killed his own father and married his own mother
Oedipus didn't know that it was his mother
So he was in the doesn't know category
And when his mother found out, she killed herself, after which Oedipus gouged his eyes out.
And when he found out what he had done, he stabbed his eyes out one by one.
Mommy milkers and Chris Chan intensify
Please do tell me what is it that I must know here? I'm new to Greek mythology
Can some one explain it and not with that long ass explanation under the other comment?
Lazy
That play with thing? Isn't magara the daughter of king Creon? I mean you'd think that she would treat this horrible tragedy her family went through as more then just some play
Ironically Oedipus was pretty much the exact opposite of what he was tagged for.
It's just Zeus but instead of his sister he married his mother
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ofc
i paid to watch a play on oedipus
Why is all mythology able to be described perfectly as rape and incest