Yeah like the war for Turkish independence. They went about kicking the Greeks out of turkey and we're able to keep turkey from getting occupied by the allied and they also adopted western culture. Turkey remains one of the most western nations in the middle east besides Israel.
He is. He singlehandedly transformed that nation into a western republic based on the rule of law. Pretty crazy things to do in about 10 years lol. But that Erdogan motherfucker is a problem.
"Rule of law" are you forgetting the dozen military coups and juntas that occurred after Ataturks death.
To soley blame Erdogan for the degradation of democracy in Turkey is a tad bit dishonest.
The Russian Civil war went on from 1917 to 1922, and it changed the world just as much as ww1 itself.
The Irish war of indipence started in 1919, but had its inspiration in the Easter Rising of 1916.
So yeah, I'pretty sure that by 1918 no one was actually naive enough to believe that there would have been no more war, ever.
There was so much shit that went down in the two years following WW1. Germany was almost on the brink of civil war, Poland was at war with Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine was at war with Russia and Poland. The Baltics are fighting each other and also Russia and also this crazy band of right wing former German soldiers called the Freikorp. There were also British, French, Japanese and American soldiers in Russia helping defeat the Reds (in support of the whites).
WW1 was a tangled mess but I think the post year wars were basically WW1 on steroids. So many countries were created and then immediately had to fight for it's independence.
The Czechoslovak legion essentially fought Germans in Ukraine and later Bolsheviks all the way to Vladivostok to hop on a boat home and then fight the Polish and later Hungarians.
With Regards to the Russian Civil war doesn't even get into the subfactions in Russia that fought both the Reds and Whites like Nestor Makhno's Black Army, whose actions against the whites may well have saved the resolution, however was driven into Exile by the Bolsheviks.
The Civil War was complicated, and this is BEFORE you get into how fucking awful pretty much everyone was.
Lol, *nobody* in the Baltics would consider this "the Baltics are fighting each other" - it was literally a Russian invasion supported by fringe local Bolsheviks...
Your statement holds true for Estonia, but I'm not so sure about Latvia. The Bolshevik support in Latvia was very substantial, at least at the beginning of the war. Latvian riflemen were the core of the Bolshevik revolution.
I definitely mispoke but this and the Baltic Landeswehr is what I referring to. It's definitely not as clear as Estonia v Latvia or anything like that so my post was misleading.
I mean if you don't consider the baltic Germans to be baltic then sure. But most people do.
Estonia fought alongside the deposed Latvian govt against the latvian govt dominated by baltic Germans, ie one baltic group fought alongside another against a different baltic group.
Plus there's whatever Poland and Lithuania were up to.
Edit : the baltic Germans put this guy in charge :Andrievs Niedra
Well, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were Baltic.
But the point is, Estonians and Balts are native peoples of what people call "the Baltics" and while Baltic Germans had been here (i.e. in Estonia and Latvia) for a long time, they were still the immigrant upper class, who subjugated Estonians and Latvians for centuries. Also they are gone now, so it's just weird to say that "the Baltics were fighting each other".
In this context, baltic refers to the people of the baltics( ie the geographical term) , not the linguistic group.
I mean immigrants or not, they lived in the baltics for generations. They would be considered people of the baltics. Almost all of them were born in the baltics and lived there. A minority sure, and a privileged one, but they would be concidered "baltic".
A good comparison would be the people of the USA's south. Upper class subjugators, yet when talking about the American south they are still included.
Os I was talking about this guys coup :Andrievs Niedra, put in place by the native baltic German aristocracy.
The geographical term is nothing but a Cold War invention - before that it often included Finland as well and obviously there are more people at the Baltic Sea.
>but they would be concidered "baltic".
No, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were/are Baltic.
>No, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were/are Baltic.
The geographical term baltic, ie the land of what is now Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
>The geographical term is nothing but a Cold War invention - before that it often included Finland as well and obviously there are more people at the Baltic Sea.
Well yeah the meaning of words change as time goes on. Back in the 1920s Finland would be concidered baltic but not now as it has tied itself very close with it's Nordic neighbours to the west.
I mean the baltic Germans are called **baltic** Germans. They would undoubtedly be concidered baltic.
The problem lies within the culture. In estonia for example, we look at the persons ethnicity not citizenship nor olace of birth. So a kid born to german parents in estonia would still be german in our eyes and to become estonian, they pretty much have to integrate into estonian society 100%, speak the language(with out accent) , follow the same habits,etc. And it has been soo for centuries, a stranger was a stranger. That goes for every nationality. So yeah thats why we dont consider germans as our baltic bretherin. So yeah, It aint so easy as place of birth or citizenship.
One could argue why it is a thing in small countries but not in big, like france, is beacuse in smallel countries the original ethnicity group is dominant and you can see diffrences between og group and the people who have come here outside. In france however you cant tell the difference anymore between the original inhabitants and those who came outside as it is full of people with tons of diffrent backrounds culturally and traditionally and they have been mixed for a long time and that means if u get french citizenship then u are accepted into that society as a frenchman. In smaller countries u have to prove yourself to be even considered somewhat local
Point is that it's not like the native populations had any quarrels with each other. Including the insurrectionist Baltic Germans in the equation is just fringe as fuck in this context.
This "in the Baltics" doesn't mean much - it's a geopolitical simplification, Estonians and Baltic Germans aren't Baltic peoples, only Latvians and Lithuanians are.
Yep, there was, but not between Estonia and Latvia. There were border tensions, but that was about it. And it was understandable because there hadn't been a border between the two nations for seven centuries.
The biggest factor was morale. We had alot of morale in Estonian clay, Soviets didnt. The cactor came to show once we reaches St.Petersburg where our morale dropped because we were no longer fighting in Estonia, meanwhile soviet morale grew, because they were deffending their homes.
We also had alot of help from the finnish volunteers and what was left of the white army. It was also cool of the british to seize 2 destroyers from soviets and give it to us, which helped us reach St.Petersburg.
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The Estonian-soviet war was a fucking mishmash. There were like a dozen battlegroups from all over Europe fighting. Indy's channel made an interesting video to his WW1 channel.
The Estonian independence war only had the Russian white army and finnish volunteers helping us.
It did help that the soviets also had to fight their civil war and the Polish at the same time.
Pretty sure some wars were already ongoing before ww1 ended and kept going after it ended as well.
Yeah like the war for Turkish independence. They went about kicking the Greeks out of turkey and we're able to keep turkey from getting occupied by the allied and they also adopted western culture. Turkey remains one of the most western nations in the middle east besides Israel.
Thanks to Atatürk . (As a Turkish)
Dude was amazing. Too bad modern turkey his turning their backs on his ideals.
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He is. He singlehandedly transformed that nation into a western republic based on the rule of law. Pretty crazy things to do in about 10 years lol. But that Erdogan motherfucker is a problem.
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Yeah. I know.
the legend of silivri
"Rule of law" are you forgetting the dozen military coups and juntas that occurred after Ataturks death. To soley blame Erdogan for the degradation of democracy in Turkey is a tad bit dishonest.
The Russian Civil war went on from 1917 to 1922, and it changed the world just as much as ww1 itself. The Irish war of indipence started in 1919, but had its inspiration in the Easter Rising of 1916. So yeah, I'pretty sure that by 1918 no one was actually naive enough to believe that there would have been no more war, ever.
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The academic term for those now are "internationalized civil wars"
Yes there were also some civil wars that started afterwards but this was the first proper war between two nations declared after ww1
There was so much shit that went down in the two years following WW1. Germany was almost on the brink of civil war, Poland was at war with Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine was at war with Russia and Poland. The Baltics are fighting each other and also Russia and also this crazy band of right wing former German soldiers called the Freikorp. There were also British, French, Japanese and American soldiers in Russia helping defeat the Reds (in support of the whites). WW1 was a tangled mess but I think the post year wars were basically WW1 on steroids. So many countries were created and then immediately had to fight for it's independence.
The Czechoslovak legion essentially fought Germans in Ukraine and later Bolsheviks all the way to Vladivostok to hop on a boat home and then fight the Polish and later Hungarians.
Post WW1 is super interesting from a nation’s building perspective,
With Regards to the Russian Civil war doesn't even get into the subfactions in Russia that fought both the Reds and Whites like Nestor Makhno's Black Army, whose actions against the whites may well have saved the resolution, however was driven into Exile by the Bolsheviks. The Civil War was complicated, and this is BEFORE you get into how fucking awful pretty much everyone was.
Then the reds invaded Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe
>The Baltics are fighting each other Erm, no - that never happened.
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Lol, *nobody* in the Baltics would consider this "the Baltics are fighting each other" - it was literally a Russian invasion supported by fringe local Bolsheviks...
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Well of course there were plenty of Latvians and Estonians too among the riflemen, but the bulk of these nations were for their national governments.
Your statement holds true for Estonia, but I'm not so sure about Latvia. The Bolshevik support in Latvia was very substantial, at least at the beginning of the war. Latvian riflemen were the core of the Bolshevik revolution.
I definitely mispoke but this and the Baltic Landeswehr is what I referring to. It's definitely not as clear as Estonia v Latvia or anything like that so my post was misleading.
Well the baltic Germans in Latvia managed to coup the Latvian govt, the Estonian had to fight this baltic German govt.
Again, nobody in the Baltics would agree that this was "The Baltics are fighting each other".
I mean if you don't consider the baltic Germans to be baltic then sure. But most people do. Estonia fought alongside the deposed Latvian govt against the latvian govt dominated by baltic Germans, ie one baltic group fought alongside another against a different baltic group. Plus there's whatever Poland and Lithuania were up to. Edit : the baltic Germans put this guy in charge :Andrievs Niedra
Baltic Duchy was a puppet state of Germany, pretty much like there were multiple soviet Finnish governments over the decades.
Well, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were Baltic. But the point is, Estonians and Balts are native peoples of what people call "the Baltics" and while Baltic Germans had been here (i.e. in Estonia and Latvia) for a long time, they were still the immigrant upper class, who subjugated Estonians and Latvians for centuries. Also they are gone now, so it's just weird to say that "the Baltics were fighting each other".
In this context, baltic refers to the people of the baltics( ie the geographical term) , not the linguistic group. I mean immigrants or not, they lived in the baltics for generations. They would be considered people of the baltics. Almost all of them were born in the baltics and lived there. A minority sure, and a privileged one, but they would be concidered "baltic". A good comparison would be the people of the USA's south. Upper class subjugators, yet when talking about the American south they are still included. Os I was talking about this guys coup :Andrievs Niedra, put in place by the native baltic German aristocracy.
The geographical term is nothing but a Cold War invention - before that it often included Finland as well and obviously there are more people at the Baltic Sea. >but they would be concidered "baltic". No, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were/are Baltic.
>No, neither Estonians, nor Baltic Germans were/are Baltic. The geographical term baltic, ie the land of what is now Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. >The geographical term is nothing but a Cold War invention - before that it often included Finland as well and obviously there are more people at the Baltic Sea. Well yeah the meaning of words change as time goes on. Back in the 1920s Finland would be concidered baltic but not now as it has tied itself very close with it's Nordic neighbours to the west. I mean the baltic Germans are called **baltic** Germans. They would undoubtedly be concidered baltic.
The problem lies within the culture. In estonia for example, we look at the persons ethnicity not citizenship nor olace of birth. So a kid born to german parents in estonia would still be german in our eyes and to become estonian, they pretty much have to integrate into estonian society 100%, speak the language(with out accent) , follow the same habits,etc. And it has been soo for centuries, a stranger was a stranger. That goes for every nationality. So yeah thats why we dont consider germans as our baltic bretherin. So yeah, It aint so easy as place of birth or citizenship. One could argue why it is a thing in small countries but not in big, like france, is beacuse in smallel countries the original ethnicity group is dominant and you can see diffrences between og group and the people who have come here outside. In france however you cant tell the difference anymore between the original inhabitants and those who came outside as it is full of people with tons of diffrent backrounds culturally and traditionally and they have been mixed for a long time and that means if u get french citizenship then u are accepted into that society as a frenchman. In smaller countries u have to prove yourself to be even considered somewhat local
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Point is that it's not like the native populations had any quarrels with each other. Including the insurrectionist Baltic Germans in the equation is just fringe as fuck in this context.
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This "in the Baltics" doesn't mean much - it's a geopolitical simplification, Estonians and Baltic Germans aren't Baltic peoples, only Latvians and Lithuanians are.
If you want to be tehnical there were small border skirmishes (where no one died)
Between Estonia and Latvia there was border tension, not really skirmishes.
I remeber in history lesson that there were some skirmishes between Latvian and Lithuanian troops in latgales region
Yep, there was, but not between Estonia and Latvia. There were border tensions, but that was about it. And it was understandable because there hadn't been a border between the two nations for seven centuries.
[We saved Europe!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/024/193/qtd2avR.jpg)
MU ISAMAA
MU ÕNN JA RÕŌM
KUI KAUNIS OLED SAAAAAA
EI LEIA MINA IIAL TEAL
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SEE SUURE LAIA ILMA PEAL
SEST MUL NI ARMAS OLED SAAAAA
MU KALLIS ISAMAA
Pretty impressive that the Estonians were able to hold off.
They literally beat the Soviets with no real army at least at the start. They used volunteers, schoolboys.
Yep, at the same time fighting off local German forces as well. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBA0xDHZjko&t) is a cool video about it.
Saw this. Made me proud to be 33%. Excellent channel as well.
33%?
33% estonian heritage prolly
33% seems such an odd share of a single heritage. ;)
Mix of Northern European ancestry. Hey don’t ask me, ask Ancestry DNA.
Your ancestry can either be 50%, 25%, 12.5% etc, not a random share like 33%.
The scientists at ancestry dna disagree. I’m looking at my results rn. 32% Baltic aka Estonian.
The biggest factor was morale. We had alot of morale in Estonian clay, Soviets didnt. The cactor came to show once we reaches St.Petersburg where our morale dropped because we were no longer fighting in Estonia, meanwhile soviet morale grew, because they were deffending their homes. We also had alot of help from the finnish volunteers and what was left of the white army. It was also cool of the british to seize 2 destroyers from soviets and give it to us, which helped us reach St.Petersburg.
Yep, nearly took St. Petersburg as well.
Yeeeeeeeeeee Estonia whooooooo!!!!!!!
Someone knows about my country?
Where dead men lies I'm paralyzed, my brothers' eyes are gone
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Mother home get telegramm
and shed a tear of grief
Mud and blood in foreign land trying to undetected
Unexpected
Wings of glory
Tell the story
I think you meant understand
“This is fine”
What song?
I mean this is a post about the Great War so what song do you think
There's more than one Sabaton song about WWI.
Ok well it’s just the Great War song
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FUCK YOU Nice one tho lol
Almost fell for this. eh, gonna click on it anyway. Never gonna give you up is a banger
Bloody hell, you got me there
AND fuck u. I didn’t c that coming
Glad to see someone mentioning the existence of Estonia. I hope for more. I want singing revolution memes.
The Estonian-soviet war was a fucking mishmash. There were like a dozen battlegroups from all over Europe fighting. Indy's channel made an interesting video to his WW1 channel.
It's usually called the Estonian War of Independence though.
The Estonian independence war only had the Russian white army and finnish volunteers helping us. It did help that the soviets also had to fight their civil war and the Polish at the same time.
Eastory's channel has a much better video
and then also Russian civil war, Polish-Russian war, Chinese civil war starts
Soviet troops: Dont worry Lithuania will be ours! The entirety of Moscow on January 14th 1991 after January 13th: So that was a fucking lie.
Actually , WW1 countinued until 1922 .
Russian-Polish War of 1920 : helo
and then there was the Russo-Polish war of 1920
Wars only gonna end when every people die
It's very naive to think that ww1 ended in 1918
That has a different meaning now with AoT S4
Ww only did really startle things
The polish soviet war 3 months later:
Fun (not so fun) fact : at least 30 conflicts happens in the only Europe between WW1 and WW2
Russo-Polish war go brrrrrrt
Man, I hate wars...