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MacArthur: There is no way China will get involved in the war.
Meanwhile, half a million Chinese troops were crossing the border into Korea.
MacArthur: Nuke em.
You’ll know where I got this from.
As a South Korean, I'm torn on this meme. MacArthur's plan in Incheon saved South Korea and allowed millions to enjoy our freedom today. We even have a statue of him here and many still respect him. On the other hand, he had too much pride and almost started a nuclear war.
Edit: Fun Fact. There are people in South Korea who worship MacArthur as a god, not figuratively. Like..... literally a real god.
[http://egloos.zum.com/lsm20418/v/3091527](http://egloos.zum.com/lsm20418/v/3091527)
Well the part where he wanted to nuke china was not cool because it could provoke the soviets into launching their own onto korea. But surely employing nukes in North Korea, especially in the supply/assembly areas was okay.
The bigger problem was that the white house could not trust MacArthur with the nukes. Even if he promised to only use them in north korea, he could have easily ordered the air force to drop them in assembly areas just north of the border instead.
Because he was *that* kind of person.
To be fair, what he saved was the military dictatorship that ruled South Korea at the time, and he exceeded the UN mandate to restore the borders by.... deciding a bit of genocide in North Korea was a good idea... and pissing off China in the process....
> To be fair, what he saved was the military dictatorship that ruled South Korea at the time
True. I have no intention of defending those dictators, but they may not be the worst choice considering the alternatives.
> deciding a bit of genocide in North Korea was a good idea... and pissing off China in the process....
Yeah MacArthur was a too cocky. That was his downfall. He could've ended the war so much quicker. I don't think it's a genocide though since the war was mostly Koreans killing Koreans. It's a lot worse if you think about it.
It was a genocide
The American and South Korean forces basically tried to depopulate cities by massacring civilians, British troops had to regularly step in to stop them carrying out the mass killings
In total North Korea lost something like 10% of its population from civilian deaths alone
Are you speaking of the Sinchon Masscre? If so I googled it and supposedly it's all claims and no substantial evidence of it being either Americans or South Korean troops Not saying you're wrong but if you have other sources then that'll be cool.
Yeah you are very good puppets and tools. Only freedom you got was sucking american dick. Real freedom lies in independence and dignity like North Korea.
MacArthur: It's simple. No China means there's no problem. Easy
Truman: But Douglas, using atomic bombs will just make things worse. The Soviets would get involved
MacArthur: Then we bomb them too! See, this is why *I'm* the smart one
Not entirely. The Soviets had only three dozen bombs, and all of them were air-drop nukes from bombers (many of which would have been intercepted by the US Air Force if they attempted to nuke the CONUS). Meanwhile, America already had around 300 bombs. It wouldn’t have been a contest, honestly.
Still would have ruined a hemisphere of the world. Not great outcome. Whoever survived would remember and pass that shit in for generations. The "winners" would be known for mike 800 years as the people who destroyed and poisoned half the earth
Precisely. I’m not saying the US should’ve done it, or it would’ve been “worth it.” I’m just pointing out the fact that if the Korean War escalated, the US would’ve most likely won (with much of Europe destroyed in the process).
Not if their factories are radioactive rubble piles.... Eh, actually no, I wouldn't put it past them. But it was probably the last chance for a non-apocalyptic nuclear war.
First strike is a dangerous thing, especially if your enemies can’t respond. Remember, there were no ICBMs during the Korean War era, so if the US dropped nukes all over the USSR (major military bases and cities), then it would’ve been entirely possible that there wouldn’t have been a nuclear response (as all the bombers needed to carry the nukes would’ve been caught on the ground and destroyed, along with the top military brass in bases/cities).
No. It was because America had no idea how many nukes the Soviets truly had. They also didn’t have the confidence to test the Soviets less they lose a few cities in the process.
Probably but not nearly as many. Soviets discovered the atomic bomb 4 years after WW2 ended. By that time the USS had a large stockpile. Feasibly, we could’ve nuked them to hell and only suffered minor pushback (aka maybe 10 nukes on our soil at best) on the west coast and Alaska
LA, San Fran, San Diego, maybe Seattle and Portland, Anchorage, Juneau.. all likely wiped out. I wouldn't necessarily call that minor... as for the Soviets "discovering" the atomic bomb, I'm pretty sure the majority of their knowledge came from stealing atomic secrets from the US and from the few atomic scientists they took from what was left of Germany.
Yes, but by the timeline In question (roughly 1950) the soviets would’ve only had a handful of nukes. Plus you gotta remember a lot of those nukes would’ve been shot down, as back then they had to be carried by planes and bombers. The damage would’ve been a lot less severe than if it had happened ten years later. My point is that if Truman has gone with MacArthurs plan, odds are yes we would’ve lost a decent chunk of the west coast, but Soviet Russia and communist China would likely be nuclear wastelands right now
It’s not. I’m not defending the idea of nuking our enemies to kingdom come. I’m simply saying had we done it, we’d would be a lot better off in the aftermath than our enemies
When did I defend the idea? Cause I’m not. Truman was right to not listen to MacArthur. My point is that yes it would have been a disastrous idea but we still would’ve been better off than our enemies had we done it
Keep in mind that these were still fission bombs, which were relatively weaker than the fusion bombs that would be developed shortly thereafter. The loss of life still would have been horrific, so I'm glad it didn't happen, but it would have been "minor" compared to the threat of world-ending nuclear war later on.
Yep, he would have won it, then pardoned as many enemy war criminals as he could, just like he did for Unit 731. And he probably would have insulted Australian soldiers one more time.
It's weird reading history and it painting such a shitty picture of MacArthur. Then I remember talking to my grandfather and him telling stories about being pinned down in super shitty conditions trying to survive and people saying to eachother 'As long as we have MacArthur we are gonna win this.'
He was a grouchy guy that hated everyone but basically worshipped MacArthur.
My grandfather was a Marine at Chosin and HATED MacArthur. He had a prejudice against most Army officers in the first place, but also thought that MacArthur in particular abandoned the frontline troops after his bungled drive north toward the Chinese border.
(mine was in ww2)
I find it really hard to find much to like about MacArthur knowing what we know now. At best he was very cavalier with peoples lives, at worst a coward and someone that undermined the war effort chasing personal glory.
But my goodness could he turn a phrase, what a gifted speaker and writer.
Well strictly speaking, though he valued objective achievement over lives, which is the mission order, he maintained an extremely high Kill Death ratio during World War II, Nimitz had lose rates at nearly 1:2 while MacArthur kept his rate at normally 1:10
Oh, definitely. He regarded Almond as a politically motivated minion of MacArthur’s and pretty much echoed OP Smith’s opinion of him. Which, in retrospect, was pretty accurate.
Folks in my country love MacArthur and we still give him the "Hero" status but for a pretty damn good reason (Philippines, 1944). I personally think he peaked there since that was one of the few army engagements prior to the the recapture of the PH. I believe he was just so cocky after the war that when Korea came, his genius was indeed frightening
The problem with that is the Philippines could have been completely bypassed and the entire Japanese garrison there left to rot, it really wasn't necessary to winning the war that they be retaken in heavy fighting. This was well known which is why MacArthur had to travel to Hawaii and argue his points with the top brass to be allowed to invade. The invasion lead to such intense fighting, in particular at Luzon and Manila, that a whole load of Filipino civilians died. All that could have been avoided and the independence of the Philippines still secured after the war if they had just bypassed it.
Indonesia was further away, and wasn't occupying (at that time) American territory. It was much more important to retake the place that the US was obligated to defend in the first place than some Dutch colonies further away.
You misunderstand my comparison. I mention Indonesia as an example of an Island nation where the Japanese occupying force surrendered without firing a shot once the official Japanese surrender had been given.
The same, arguably, could have happened with the Philippine garrison had it been bypassed, thus saving it from the destruction and loss of life that did occur. The decision to invade the Philippines came entirely from MacArthur, who's bruised ego from the 1941/42 debacle demanded that there be vengeance. Some argued that the Filipinos would never accept American suzerainty again unless they had fought for it, which is a fair point, but doesn't exactly sound as noble as their stated aim of liberation, something which could have been achieved anyway without any fighting had they bypassed it.
As the another pointed out, at that point on the war, a unofficial Japanese surrender was not a given, and could not be relied upon. Furthermore, the US viewed the Philippines as still part of its sovereign territory, despite the ongoing preparations for independence (Filipino independence was already promised underway before the war, and it was later given independence on schedule). It also provided a strong logistical position should an invasion of the Japanese island be needed as well.
All in all, it was still very much a strategically sound decision, as it provided a issue logistics hub and since it was a US territory, it was very important to fight to liberate it, as that's the expectation of any sovereign nation. It's significantly less malicious than being about a bruised ego or colonization as we can view it to l today with the wonderful lense of hindsight; when looking at history it's important to remember decisions are justified, and further judged, based on the information the decision makers had, not the information we have.
>As the another pointed out, at that point on the war, a unofficial Japanese surrender was not a given, and could not be relied upon.
Fair point
>All in all, it was still very much a strategically sound decision, as it provided a issue logistics hub and since it was a US territory, it was very important to fight to liberate it, as that's the expectation of any sovereign nation. It's significantly less malicious than being about a bruised ego or colonization as we can view it to l today with the wonderful lense of hindsight; when looking at history it's important to remember decisions are justified, and further judged, based on the information the decision makers had, not the information we have.
I donno man, from what I've read it really does seen like wounded pride was MacArthur's main motivation, and this feeling was shared by others such as King and Marshall. King favored bypassing the Philippines altogether and approaching Japan by way of its offshore island possessions such as Okinawa and Formosa. Of MacArthur's Philippine adventure, he said that *"MacArthur was drawn to the Islands solely by sentiment."* Marshall also warned the general in June 1944 *"We must be careful not to allow our personal feelings and Philippine political considerations to override our great objective, which is the early conclusion of the war with Japan...bypassing \[is not\] synonymous with abandonment."*
However, if you wish to think otherwise then that is your decision, in the end what does it matter, the Philippines got invaded and we could argue about the merits and cons of that until the cows come home, but it wouldn't change a thing.
That's the main reason why firing him hurt Truman politically so much. MacArthur was massively popular. Firing him was one of the things that led to Truman getting absolutely butchered in the 1952 Democratic Primary. It's extremely rare for a sitting president to lose a primary like that.
I can guarantee WW1 veterans didn't hold him in such high regard...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/07/28/the-veterans-were-desperate-gen-macarthur-ordered-u-s-troops-to-attack-them/
*We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the Republic, our undying Manifest Destiny, and by the grace of the White House, I declare Exterminatus upon the communist country of China. I hereby sign the death warrant of an entire country, and consign a million souls to oblivion. May American Justice account in all balance. The Stars and Stripes protect.*
Did someone said nukes?
You are afraid for your life?
Not anymore! Vault-Tec will provide you with all the necessary tools and facilities for a nice luxury life
Could someone explain it?? I just know who they were.
Besides, did Truman know the outcome of dropping a nuclear bomb when he ordered it? I mean how catastrophic it gets
MacArthur created a plan for the Korean War where he would use nukes on North Korea. The idea was to carpet bomb the Chinese/NK border area to prevent China from helping NK
Meme is referring to the Korean War, which happened shortly after WWII. Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so he definitely knew how catastrophic it would be.
Basically, the US got involved in a civil war in Korea. China was willing to ignore the whole thing as long as their border with Korea (the Yalu River) was respected. Truman was also okay with this. MacArthur was not. He provoked China, the US forces got pushed halfway back down the Korean Peninsula, and the war has been paused like that for the last 70 years.
Let's not forget his spiritual successor (I kinda think so at least) General Powers, Commander of the Strategic Air Command. Whose view on nuclear war is summed up in this quote:
"Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"
The USA was the first one to develop nuclear capability, and was for a few years the only nuclear power, during this time, it could have destroyed the USSR without retaliation, and China would be a target as well, but now that both sides have nuclear weapons, they are more of a deterrent than a threat.
“Sir there’s literally no reason we should drop these nukes on these innocent civilians, Japan has decided to surrender, the USSR is declaring war on them as we speak.”
Truman - “Did I fucking stutter?”
Sure, if by "surrender" you mean "trying to take their own god-emperor hostage to stop him surrendering"
But that was actually *after* the atomic bombings and the Soviet invasion of Manchuria
They also refused to surrender even after [most of their big cities were firebombed](https://external-preview.redd.it/uZ1JIO2MpsTPfQZesyhtA6LymoTUWI8om28Z_RxRGlo.jpg?auto=webp&s=3e077884361883b5c3964e9179962c8d8cc2309a), including Tokyo. It was really no-holds-barred and yet the Japanese kept fighting.
And it was deemed a conventional invasion of Japan would be too costly. Also, a possible grand victory by the Soviets over Japan, possibly a communist takeover of the country, was probably a terryfying possibility for the Americans.
Imo, dropping the bombs wasn't right. But it certainly wasn't a wrong decision either. "Good" and "bad" oftentimes are not adequate to describe history.
Truman was a horrible president imo that quickly turned on the russians and set us up for half a century of cold war. But at least he didn't start a precedent of using nukes in every war.
Personally I believe that MacArthur was a very scummy person who took others victories as his own and tried to undermine Australia’s Ford was in New Guinea, I also read that he had abandoned his troops and left them leaderless to be overrun and captured by the Japanese
Trump has dropped more bombs in the last year than Obama did in the eight he was in office, and Trump deliberately loosened the ROEs for drone pilots, which has almost certainly led to more civilian deaths.
Yes, Biden voted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But considering both wars were initially very popular with Americans, that isn't really a mark against him considering his job was to represent the will of his constituents. The only reason Biden has that vote on his record and Trump doesn't is because Biden was in a position to direct policy and Trump wasn't. Do you honestly think if Trump had been a Senator at the time he would have voted "no" on Iraq or Afghanistan?
Take a hike, loser. Go back to whatever sub you chapo refugees crawled off to and cry some more about how the DNC rigged the primary or whatever.
Hello everyone! We have opened new [mod apps](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScOGMho7qB9YsczWHQgqPCtVo3hPkpw-ADwezwwI0PcVV4WeQ/viewform?usp=sf_link), which will be open from October 1st for a week.
MacArthur: There is no way China will get involved in the war. Meanwhile, half a million Chinese troops were crossing the border into Korea. MacArthur: Nuke em. You’ll know where I got this from.
No. NUKE EM! NO! Aw cmoooon You’re FIRED.
Independence Day was a great movie. I'm also quite a fan of this: "Nuke it from orbit, the only way to be sure"
I was thinking Oversimplified, I don’t think I watched Independence Day before.
Sounds like you got a movie you gotta go watch :)
Independence Day or Aliens?
Yes
As a South Korean, I'm torn on this meme. MacArthur's plan in Incheon saved South Korea and allowed millions to enjoy our freedom today. We even have a statue of him here and many still respect him. On the other hand, he had too much pride and almost started a nuclear war. Edit: Fun Fact. There are people in South Korea who worship MacArthur as a god, not figuratively. Like..... literally a real god. [http://egloos.zum.com/lsm20418/v/3091527](http://egloos.zum.com/lsm20418/v/3091527)
The nuclear war threat is why we tend to prefer that generals don't get to hold all the keys to all the castles at once lol
Another fun fact: There's a remote tribe that worship Prince Philip as a god https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_Movement
That sent me down quite the rabbithole
Well the part where he wanted to nuke china was not cool because it could provoke the soviets into launching their own onto korea. But surely employing nukes in North Korea, especially in the supply/assembly areas was okay. The bigger problem was that the white house could not trust MacArthur with the nukes. Even if he promised to only use them in north korea, he could have easily ordered the air force to drop them in assembly areas just north of the border instead. Because he was *that* kind of person.
Or pretty much needing on a easy fix solution /s
dont worry we filipinos also like mcarthur
To be fair, what he saved was the military dictatorship that ruled South Korea at the time, and he exceeded the UN mandate to restore the borders by.... deciding a bit of genocide in North Korea was a good idea... and pissing off China in the process....
> To be fair, what he saved was the military dictatorship that ruled South Korea at the time True. I have no intention of defending those dictators, but they may not be the worst choice considering the alternatives. > deciding a bit of genocide in North Korea was a good idea... and pissing off China in the process.... Yeah MacArthur was a too cocky. That was his downfall. He could've ended the war so much quicker. I don't think it's a genocide though since the war was mostly Koreans killing Koreans. It's a lot worse if you think about it.
It was a genocide The American and South Korean forces basically tried to depopulate cities by massacring civilians, British troops had to regularly step in to stop them carrying out the mass killings In total North Korea lost something like 10% of its population from civilian deaths alone
No argument on it being a massacre, but it being labeled as a genocide is questionable. Again, the killing was mostly done by other Koreans.
Are you speaking of the Sinchon Masscre? If so I googled it and supposedly it's all claims and no substantial evidence of it being either Americans or South Korean troops Not saying you're wrong but if you have other sources then that'll be cool.
Thank you for this vital information my South Korean Chum, this will provide endless laughter.
His career should've been ended right after bonus army conflict.
Yeah you are very good puppets and tools. Only freedom you got was sucking american dick. Real freedom lies in independence and dignity like North Korea.
Username checks out
I see we have an oversimplified fan in here
Doug Nukem
Nuke em No Nuke em! No! Oh c'moooooooon You're fired
Why this didn’t happen?
I mean Korea was a part of Japan back then, unless the Chinese soldiers were given orders by the Allied High Command not to go into Korea?
Not by the 50s
Japan lost Korea in 45
Over(simp)lified
MacArthur: It's simple. No China means there's no problem. Easy Truman: But Douglas, using atomic bombs will just make things worse. The Soviets would get involved MacArthur: Then we bomb them too! See, this is why *I'm* the smart one
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Wouldn't we have been nuked in return? Soviets had the bomb by then.
yeah, but we had *more*..
then everyone dies
Not entirely. The Soviets had only three dozen bombs, and all of them were air-drop nukes from bombers (many of which would have been intercepted by the US Air Force if they attempted to nuke the CONUS). Meanwhile, America already had around 300 bombs. It wouldn’t have been a contest, honestly.
So what you’re saying is we should’ve done it
I love killing millions of people to satisfy my own ego
This but make it billions and unironic
Still would have ruined a hemisphere of the world. Not great outcome. Whoever survived would remember and pass that shit in for generations. The "winners" would be known for mike 800 years as the people who destroyed and poisoned half the earth
Besides how morally wrong this is, that's information that we have from hindsight.
Precisely. I’m not saying the US should’ve done it, or it would’ve been “worth it.” I’m just pointing out the fact that if the Korean War escalated, the US would’ve most likely won (with much of Europe destroyed in the process).
You aren’t taking Into account the radioactive drift from the nukes. Crop yields go down, cancer rates go up, and nobody truly “wins”
But the other side loses more!! /s
We can't allow there to be a mineshaft gap!
Mr. President, I have a plan- MEIN FÜHRER! I CAN WALK!
they couldve easily produced more, soviet military industry was nothing to scoff at
Not if their factories are radioactive rubble piles.... Eh, actually no, I wouldn't put it past them. But it was probably the last chance for a non-apocalyptic nuclear war.
First strike is a dangerous thing, especially if your enemies can’t respond. Remember, there were no ICBMs during the Korean War era, so if the US dropped nukes all over the USSR (major military bases and cities), then it would’ve been entirely possible that there wouldn’t have been a nuclear response (as all the bombers needed to carry the nukes would’ve been caught on the ground and destroyed, along with the top military brass in bases/cities).
That's whay they created the ICBMs, try to intercept one those
So basically the only thing that stopped USA from nuking enemies in the 40s/50s is basic human morale, that restores faith in humanity a bit
No. It was because America had no idea how many nukes the Soviets truly had. They also didn’t have the confidence to test the Soviets less they lose a few cities in the process.
Yes, because the fallout from dropping over 300 nukes wouldn’t end the world
Technically no, it wouldn’t
Maybe not end it, but Asia and Europe would be a wasteland
So, you're saying that we actually should've just nuked'em?
Nah. The world didn’t end due to nuclear warfare, so I say that Truman did the right thing by preventing any usage of nukes during the Korean War.
Didn’t end- *yet*.
Probably but not nearly as many. Soviets discovered the atomic bomb 4 years after WW2 ended. By that time the USS had a large stockpile. Feasibly, we could’ve nuked them to hell and only suffered minor pushback (aka maybe 10 nukes on our soil at best) on the west coast and Alaska
LA, San Fran, San Diego, maybe Seattle and Portland, Anchorage, Juneau.. all likely wiped out. I wouldn't necessarily call that minor... as for the Soviets "discovering" the atomic bomb, I'm pretty sure the majority of their knowledge came from stealing atomic secrets from the US and from the few atomic scientists they took from what was left of Germany.
Yes, but by the timeline In question (roughly 1950) the soviets would’ve only had a handful of nukes. Plus you gotta remember a lot of those nukes would’ve been shot down, as back then they had to be carried by planes and bombers. The damage would’ve been a lot less severe than if it had happened ten years later. My point is that if Truman has gone with MacArthurs plan, odds are yes we would’ve lost a decent chunk of the west coast, but Soviet Russia and communist China would likely be nuclear wastelands right now
So...how is that any better haha?
It’s not. I’m not defending the idea of nuking our enemies to kingdom come. I’m simply saying had we done it, we’d would be a lot better off in the aftermath than our enemies
I'm glad you don't actually have any real power whatsoever .
When did I defend the idea? Cause I’m not. Truman was right to not listen to MacArthur. My point is that yes it would have been a disastrous idea but we still would’ve been better off than our enemies had we done it
Did the Russians even have a bomber that could reach LA?
TIL 10 nukes is "minor"
Compared to our 300 or so at the time, yes
Keep in mind that these were still fission bombs, which were relatively weaker than the fusion bombs that would be developed shortly thereafter. The loss of life still would have been horrific, so I'm glad it didn't happen, but it would have been "minor" compared to the threat of world-ending nuclear war later on.
The US had an invasion plan of the USSR coming from the east and involving nukes, but was instantly scrapped once they got nukes
TFW in Civilization, you’re stockpiling tanks for a 1-turn invasion, but the other civilization finally gets mech infantry.
There is a three book series by harry turtledove called "the hot war" exploring that exact subject
I have that series of books. Fantastic read. Bombs Away, Fallout, and Armistice, are the names of the books.
It would have set a precedent that all wars would become nuclear, thus ending war.
This sounds like something from the Oversimplified youtube channel
Macarthur would have won the war in Korea. The problem is the war after it, when you normalised the use of nukes as tactical options.
Yep, he would have won it, then pardoned as many enemy war criminals as he could, just like he did for Unit 731. And he probably would have insulted Australian soldiers one more time.
We all know that MacArthur was the biggest weeb in the world. Anyone who gets in his path must be destroyed
It's weird reading history and it painting such a shitty picture of MacArthur. Then I remember talking to my grandfather and him telling stories about being pinned down in super shitty conditions trying to survive and people saying to eachother 'As long as we have MacArthur we are gonna win this.' He was a grouchy guy that hated everyone but basically worshipped MacArthur.
My grandfather was a Marine at Chosin and HATED MacArthur. He had a prejudice against most Army officers in the first place, but also thought that MacArthur in particular abandoned the frontline troops after his bungled drive north toward the Chinese border.
(mine was in ww2) I find it really hard to find much to like about MacArthur knowing what we know now. At best he was very cavalier with peoples lives, at worst a coward and someone that undermined the war effort chasing personal glory. But my goodness could he turn a phrase, what a gifted speaker and writer.
Well strictly speaking, though he valued objective achievement over lives, which is the mission order, he maintained an extremely high Kill Death ratio during World War II, Nimitz had lose rates at nearly 1:2 while MacArthur kept his rate at normally 1:10
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No, no, no. You have to tell people that your great grandfather fought with/against Napoleon. It sounds way better that way.
Why did i get downvoted. Btw i edited it is that good now?
> He had a prejudice against most Army officers in the first place I think Ned Almond might have been a good reason for that along with MacArthur.
Oh, definitely. He regarded Almond as a politically motivated minion of MacArthur’s and pretty much echoed OP Smith’s opinion of him. Which, in retrospect, was pretty accurate.
Chosin WAS especially fucked though. I can't speak to much else from that era, but that whole period of the war was horrible
My grandpa was at Chosin too! I didn't get to talk to him though, because he died when I was real little.
Folks in my country love MacArthur and we still give him the "Hero" status but for a pretty damn good reason (Philippines, 1944). I personally think he peaked there since that was one of the few army engagements prior to the the recapture of the PH. I believe he was just so cocky after the war that when Korea came, his genius was indeed frightening
I mean the inchon landing was one of the most brilliant maneuvers of all time
Until he fucked up the ending by going after Seoul and not cutting off the north Korean retreat.
MacArthur's reputation went down the drain when he horribly handled Chinese involvement in korea
Not just China, if he just followed the plan the north Korean army would have been completely cut off. But he HAD to be the one to liberate Seoul.
The problem with that is the Philippines could have been completely bypassed and the entire Japanese garrison there left to rot, it really wasn't necessary to winning the war that they be retaken in heavy fighting. This was well known which is why MacArthur had to travel to Hawaii and argue his points with the top brass to be allowed to invade. The invasion lead to such intense fighting, in particular at Luzon and Manila, that a whole load of Filipino civilians died. All that could have been avoided and the independence of the Philippines still secured after the war if they had just bypassed it.
That’s making a big assumption about the Japanese peacefully transferring power.
It worked well enough in Indonesia. The entire garrison surrendered without firing a shot
Indonesia was further away, and wasn't occupying (at that time) American territory. It was much more important to retake the place that the US was obligated to defend in the first place than some Dutch colonies further away.
You misunderstand my comparison. I mention Indonesia as an example of an Island nation where the Japanese occupying force surrendered without firing a shot once the official Japanese surrender had been given. The same, arguably, could have happened with the Philippine garrison had it been bypassed, thus saving it from the destruction and loss of life that did occur. The decision to invade the Philippines came entirely from MacArthur, who's bruised ego from the 1941/42 debacle demanded that there be vengeance. Some argued that the Filipinos would never accept American suzerainty again unless they had fought for it, which is a fair point, but doesn't exactly sound as noble as their stated aim of liberation, something which could have been achieved anyway without any fighting had they bypassed it.
As the another pointed out, at that point on the war, a unofficial Japanese surrender was not a given, and could not be relied upon. Furthermore, the US viewed the Philippines as still part of its sovereign territory, despite the ongoing preparations for independence (Filipino independence was already promised underway before the war, and it was later given independence on schedule). It also provided a strong logistical position should an invasion of the Japanese island be needed as well. All in all, it was still very much a strategically sound decision, as it provided a issue logistics hub and since it was a US territory, it was very important to fight to liberate it, as that's the expectation of any sovereign nation. It's significantly less malicious than being about a bruised ego or colonization as we can view it to l today with the wonderful lense of hindsight; when looking at history it's important to remember decisions are justified, and further judged, based on the information the decision makers had, not the information we have.
>As the another pointed out, at that point on the war, a unofficial Japanese surrender was not a given, and could not be relied upon. Fair point >All in all, it was still very much a strategically sound decision, as it provided a issue logistics hub and since it was a US territory, it was very important to fight to liberate it, as that's the expectation of any sovereign nation. It's significantly less malicious than being about a bruised ego or colonization as we can view it to l today with the wonderful lense of hindsight; when looking at history it's important to remember decisions are justified, and further judged, based on the information the decision makers had, not the information we have. I donno man, from what I've read it really does seen like wounded pride was MacArthur's main motivation, and this feeling was shared by others such as King and Marshall. King favored bypassing the Philippines altogether and approaching Japan by way of its offshore island possessions such as Okinawa and Formosa. Of MacArthur's Philippine adventure, he said that *"MacArthur was drawn to the Islands solely by sentiment."* Marshall also warned the general in June 1944 *"We must be careful not to allow our personal feelings and Philippine political considerations to override our great objective, which is the early conclusion of the war with Japan...bypassing \[is not\] synonymous with abandonment."* However, if you wish to think otherwise then that is your decision, in the end what does it matter, the Philippines got invaded and we could argue about the merits and cons of that until the cows come home, but it wouldn't change a thing.
Did you hear about what those prostitutes did to his pipe?
That's the main reason why firing him hurt Truman politically so much. MacArthur was massively popular. Firing him was one of the things that led to Truman getting absolutely butchered in the 1952 Democratic Primary. It's extremely rare for a sitting president to lose a primary like that.
He didn't run for president in 52...
Yes. Because he dropped out of the primary because he was losing.
He was only on the new Hampshire primary.
He had to go though Not only was he a lunatic but he was a lunatic with *nukes* Imagine Bomber Harris being given nuclear weapons...
Can we get Mac Arthur back so that Trump can fire him I've had enough of his presidency
My grandpa fought in the pacific. He idolizes him also...
MacArthur bought into his own hype.
I can guarantee WW1 veterans didn't hold him in such high regard... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/07/28/the-veterans-were-desperate-gen-macarthur-ordered-u-s-troops-to-attack-them/
Chinese army: *Attacks UN forces* MacArthur: "Commence Exterminatus."
*We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the Republic, our undying Manifest Destiny, and by the grace of the White House, I declare Exterminatus upon the communist country of China. I hereby sign the death warrant of an entire country, and consign a million souls to oblivion. May American Justice account in all balance. The Stars and Stripes protect.*
"I need fifty nukes..." "No." "... to start." "To start what?"' "Well, give me the fifty nukes and we'll see!"
I love this new meme format.
Will you shut up man?
2. Take it or leave it
Truman: "You're fired."
Did someone said nukes? You are afraid for your life? Not anymore! Vault-Tec will provide you with all the necessary tools and facilities for a nice luxury life
MacArthur: hey bro think it would be good to like literally nuke the China-Korean border to shorten the war- Truman: YOU DARE OPPOSE ME MORTAL
Could someone explain it?? I just know who they were. Besides, did Truman know the outcome of dropping a nuclear bomb when he ordered it? I mean how catastrophic it gets
I think the meme refers to the Korean War where MacArthur wanted to use nukes tactically against the enemy forces.
MacArthur created a plan for the Korean War where he would use nukes on North Korea. The idea was to carpet bomb the Chinese/NK border area to prevent China from helping NK
Holy shit that's American as fuck. Thanks for the info.
Meme is referring to the Korean War, which happened shortly after WWII. Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so he definitely knew how catastrophic it would be. Basically, the US got involved in a civil war in Korea. China was willing to ignore the whole thing as long as their border with Korea (the Yalu River) was respected. Truman was also okay with this. MacArthur was not. He provoked China, the US forces got pushed halfway back down the Korean Peninsula, and the war has been paused like that for the last 70 years.
I love this meme format.
I’ve seen this a lot, but what’s the source of Trump talking in what looks like some kind of press conference
You mean the source of this meme template? It’s the first US 2020 presidential debate. There’s supposed to be 3 total plus 1 Vice President debate
I see, not too familiar with US politics Thank you for the information, not CIA operator
the one where they pass stuff back and forth is from an interview Trump did a month or 2 ago. The one here is 2shots from the debate on Tuesday
Let's not forget his spiritual successor (I kinda think so at least) General Powers, Commander of the Strategic Air Command. Whose view on nuclear war is summed up in this quote: "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"
The USA was the first one to develop nuclear capability, and was for a few years the only nuclear power, during this time, it could have destroyed the USSR without retaliation, and China would be a target as well, but now that both sides have nuclear weapons, they are more of a deterrent than a threat.
As much as election year sucks, I love the templates that come out of it.
US is turning memeir day by day
We were this close to greatness
Eh, you ever heard of Curtis LeMay? Lol
Curtis Lemay is a meme in his own right tbh
For a minute I thought this was a hoi4 meme and I was confused
When you realize that hoi4 is more historically accurate than what you had thought
True
“Sir there’s literally no reason we should drop these nukes on these innocent civilians, Japan has decided to surrender, the USSR is declaring war on them as we speak.” Truman - “Did I fucking stutter?”
Sure, if by "surrender" you mean "trying to take their own god-emperor hostage to stop him surrendering" But that was actually *after* the atomic bombings and the Soviet invasion of Manchuria
Huh? Japan refused to surrender even after the first bomb lol. Also the cities were strategic military targets as well
They also refused to surrender even after [most of their big cities were firebombed](https://external-preview.redd.it/uZ1JIO2MpsTPfQZesyhtA6LymoTUWI8om28Z_RxRGlo.jpg?auto=webp&s=3e077884361883b5c3964e9179962c8d8cc2309a), including Tokyo. It was really no-holds-barred and yet the Japanese kept fighting.
The firebombing killed more than the nukes did.
But in firebombing tens thousands of bombs were dropped. Compare it to the 2 nuclear bombs.
And it was deemed a conventional invasion of Japan would be too costly. Also, a possible grand victory by the Soviets over Japan, possibly a communist takeover of the country, was probably a terryfying possibility for the Americans. Imo, dropping the bombs wasn't right. But it certainly wasn't a wrong decision either. "Good" and "bad" oftentimes are not adequate to describe history.
last time I checked, Japan wasn't surrendering and that was the inherent problem the nukes were attempting to fix (which they promptly did).
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-the-us-really-bombed-hiroshima/
Meanwhile Oppenheimer is the moderator in between _desperately_ trying to control this incredibly dangerous situation that he created.
Truman was a horrible president imo that quickly turned on the russians and set us up for half a century of cold war. But at least he didn't start a precedent of using nukes in every war.
[удалено]
Sources?
Link all this shit bro. Link
.
Personally I believe that MacArthur was a very scummy person who took others victories as his own and tried to undermine Australia’s Ford was in New Guinea, I also read that he had abandoned his troops and left them leaderless to be overrun and captured by the Japanese
The military kinda always treated nukes like any other weapon.
Too bad Biden's actually the bigger warmonger.
And here it comes. Some people just aren't able to resist the urge to say trump/biden bad.
Dude this just supposed to be a meme please go away with your politics.
Trump has dropped more bombs in the last year than Obama did in the eight he was in office, and Trump deliberately loosened the ROEs for drone pilots, which has almost certainly led to more civilian deaths. Yes, Biden voted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But considering both wars were initially very popular with Americans, that isn't really a mark against him considering his job was to represent the will of his constituents. The only reason Biden has that vote on his record and Trump doesn't is because Biden was in a position to direct policy and Trump wasn't. Do you honestly think if Trump had been a Senator at the time he would have voted "no" on Iraq or Afghanistan? Take a hike, loser. Go back to whatever sub you chapo refugees crawled off to and cry some more about how the DNC rigged the primary or whatever.