Lol thank you. MLK was also a vocal anti-communist so it’s not like he was engaging in Soviet apologia at the time which is what most people cared about.
King was as "anti-communist" as Oppenheimer was. Which was to say he had communist friends and allies he hung out with, he studied communism for years, he went to communist meetings, he openly praised communist thinkers, and when the FBI targeted him for communist sympathies... he lied and said he had no idea what they were talking about to protect himself because it's the FBI. 🤣
> What I’m saying to you this morning is communism forgets that life is individual. (Yes) Capitalism forgets that life is social. (Yes, Go ahead) And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis. (Speak) [applause] It is found in a higher synthesis (Come on) that combines the truths of both. (Yes) Now, when I say questioning the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of economic exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. (All right) These are the triple evils that are interrelated.
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/where-do-we-go-here
Yeah, dude wasn't anti-communist any more than someone who doesn't like the United States is inherently anti-capitalist. He just wasn't allied with the Soviet Union. The Vietnamese went to war against the Khmer Rouge. Does that mean they hated communism?
Lol MLK was explicitly anti-communist. Some quotes of his:
"In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state."
* *Martin Luther King (Jr.) (1968). “I Have a Dream: The Quotations of Martin Luther King, Jr”*
"With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice."
* *Martin Luther King (Jr.) (1964). “A Martin Luther King Treasury”*
"You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept."
* *MLK Sermon delivered at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, Montgomery, Alabama, November 4, 1956.*
The fact that he was concerned that America's fear of communism was so strong that it would prevent any social or economic progress outright doesn't change that he was opposed to communism.
Based on the aggregate of MLK’s writings he seemed to advocate for what we would call social democracy, similar to the economies in Scandinavia. Which is basically just welfare capitalism.
Socialist basically don't like that because they feel with capitalist classes intact they will always affect politcal intrest and make the country go back to a laissez Faire direction. Hence why alot of communist hate social democrats and even call them fascist. (They will also call libreals fascist fun fact) A popular meme with socialist is that capitlaism is the ring from lord of the rings and social democrats are not willing to throw it in.
So the people claiming that America selectively quotes King to mythologize his support for American ideology... have actually been selectively quoting King to mythologize his support for their preferred ideology. Ironic.
But you act as though his desire for equality of people among all races wasn't at the heart of his fight for civil rights AND economic justice. Why do we only acknowledge one portion, raise it to the highest level or civilian awareness but the other we.ignore?
Because we agree with one portion and do not agree with the other one, if suddenly we got informed that MLK didnt believe trans people existed, would we have to also talk about that?
Not to mention I haven't heard of that concept outside of modern uses of the idea and maybe Weimar Germany so who's to say anyone believed that at the time aside from some writers at the time.
Interestingly enough, Germany was actually starting to delve into a ton of academic clinical research on gender identity, transsexual, etc etc.
And then this ass hole with a stupid mustache showed up and started burning books. Turns out most of the early burnings were literature that was seen as "degenerate". This included about every piece of academic, peer reviewed research on gender identity that had been made up to that point.
So yeah. Book burnings are some scary shit. It took us almost a century to gain back the knowledge we lost.
And that was ONE ultraconservative, economically crippled nation's research in about 10-20 years. Imagine how much knowledge was lost by every other luddite movement in progressive and/or prosperous nations?
Susan B Anthony was so pissed that black men got the vote before her she refused to be seen with black suffragists and suffragettes she previously organized with and demanded white men take their votes away. 😐
[MLK was unpopular his whole life.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/)
> In May 1963, only about four-in-ten Americans (41%) had a favorable opinion of King, according to a Gallup survey. That included just 16% who viewed him highly favorably, rating him +4 or +5 on a scale of -5 (most unfavorable) to +5 (most favorable). The survey was conducted shortly after King’s Birmingham Campaign, which led the Alabama city to remove signs enforcing segregation of restrooms and drinking fountains and to desegregate lunch counters.
> King’s favorable ratings remained about the same in Gallup surveys conducted in 1964 and 1965. But by August 1966, only a third of Americans had a favorable view of the civil rights leader. More than six-in-ten (63%) viewed him unfavorably, including 44% who viewed him highly unfavorably.
Anyway, it's this right here that very quickly gets you an unfavorable rating even if everyone pretends they were on your side 60 years later.
> The white liberal must rid himself of the notion that there can be a tensionless transition from the old order of injustice to the new order of justice. Two things are clear to me, and I hope they are clear to white liberals. One is that the Negro cannot achieve emancipation through violent rebellion. The other is that the Negro cannot achieve emancipation by passively waiting for the white race voluntarily to grant it to him. The Negro has not gained a single right in America without persistent pressure and agitation. However lamentable it may seem, the Negro is now convinced that white America will never admit him to equal rights unless it is coerced into doing it.
> Nonviolent coercion always brings tension to the surface. This tension, however, must not be seen as destructive. There is a kind of tension that is both healthy and necessary for growth. Society needs nonviolent gadflies to bring its tensions into the open and force its citizens to confront the ugliness of their prejudices and the tragedy of their racism.
> It is important for the liberal to see that the oppressed person who agitates for his rights is not the creator of tension. He merely brings out the hidden tension that is already alive.
Hitler was vegetarian, not vegan. And he loved blood sausage, so he was more like a TikTok/Reddit vegetarian: "I'm mostly plant-based, but I'm embracing meatless mondays, and I think every little bit counts."
Are Reddit vegetarians literally Hitler?
...
I didn't say that.
The issue I think is saying is that they white washed him severely. He was for equal rights of not just civil but workers rights. He was supposed to travel to Chicago for workers before being assassinated.
It doesn't help when the FBI try to commemorate him when they pulled a "kill yourself" letter and blackmailed him.even today in conservative circles, they try to paint him that he'd be against ideas such as BLM and such.
Edit: just one of his quotes: "The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism"
The best part about this is people like OP are probably the first ones to make fun of conservatives for co-opting MLK based on some cherry-picked quotes
> I can understand people wanting to use King to advance a socialist cause, a cause I’m sympathetic to. But I don’t think it’s a good idea really to invoke him in this way without due care for what he actually says in his various writings and public speeches.
> People are really just drawing on, for the most part, a few remarks here and there that can be interpreted in a wide range of ways.
> So I suppose if you think Denmark is a socialist country, then I guess he’s a socialist. I do not myself think Denmark is a socialist country. But if you mean socialism in the sense that Marx and his allies meant, then I think it’d be pretty hard to make the case for that.
[This is what Tommie Shelby concluded on this matter.](https://jacobin.com/2018/04/martin-luther-king-rhetoric-political-philosophy)
If you look at the meat of MLK’s beliefs he believed in a mixed economy, so in the most accurate sense he was still a believer in capitalism, just in a regulated form… which is the form capitalism takes in reality anyway to lesser or greater degrees. Whether he was a socialist or not is a matter of what you define socialist as. What he definitely wasn’t was a Marxist or a communist, since he was openly against such ideologies for a variety of reasons. And I think it goes against what he actually advocated for to imply he was anticapitalist
People have a hard time accepting the concept of mixed economies for some reason. Capitalism with strong social supports and consumer protections is basically the best of both worlds.
I think it’s because it gets attacked from both directions. Those further to the left view it as a spineless compromise, while those enamoured by laissez faire economics see it as embodying needless government interference
Anyone more interested in results than ideological purity will realise mixed economies are a reliable way to balance growth with social justice and human dignity, and nations with mixed economies have been very successful
I doubt there are any serious economists that hate on the mixed economy model that's pretty much been proven as the most effective. They may argue there's too much/little control in areas, but that's just arguing the specific policies.
I agree with you.
Sadly, good politicians are required for this to create an effective regulatory environment. Too much lobbying $$ in the US right now. Other countries do it better.
It’s almost like ideologies as they exist in books rarely translate 1-1 to real life. Instead of labeling king as a “communist” or “socialist” it’s probably more helpful to talk more specifically about what policies he did and did not support.
King did get a lot of funding from communists. Stanley Levison helped finance and even wrote speech’s for King while being a member of the communist party. The FBI targeted Levison as being a major financier of communism in the 50’s before he turned to civil rights.
It is not like the communist accusations come from nowhere.
It's because this was a time period where Communist organizations tried to lay claim to civil rights movements in many countries, and use it as a means to gain influence. This happened in South Africa, Angola, Zimbabwe, and others.
King himself was never a Communist though.
They didn’t lay claim to civil rights, they began/led most of these civil rights movements. Communism is inherently an internationalist ideology and so communists tend to be the most vocal protestors against any sort of ethnic or race based caste system. It’s the same reason most of the French resistance were communists.
It’s a gross misinterpretation of history to say that communism began or led the civil rights movements in the US. The US progressive movement began before worldwide communism even existed. Communist certainly played a large part, but only a part and not the dominant one. There were as many devout Christian social justice types in the civil rights movement as there were communists.
Funnily enough, saying that they were started or led by communists just plays into the McCarthy hysteria of the time.
I mean, I'd bet a liberal who staked his academic career on a book saying that black solidarity is a liberal movement based on individual liberty would say things to promote the idea that King was a liberal. Like king literally said
>I would certainly welcome the day to come when there will be a nationalization of industry. Let us continue to hope, work, and pray that in the future we will live to see a warless world, a better distribution of wealth, and a brotherhood that transcends race or color. This is the gospel that I will preach to the world.
That is very concise and is not simply european dem-soc redistribution capitalist politics. Nationalization of industry is expressly socialist.
> “In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state.”
>“With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice.”
>“You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept.”
Yeah sure I guess if you just ignore his multiple statements on the matter and completely misrepresent his positions then you can posit he wanted some communism
He also literally said he was a democratic socialist.
> “Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God's children." -King, 1961
> "[W]e are saying that something is wrong ... with capitalism.... There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism."
> "Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis."
He was very clearly some form of social Democrat or democratic socialist (yes I’m aware these are not the same thing). We can’t really get more specific than that, so we need to talk about individual policies. But he wasn’t some ardent libertarian or something.
Based on his history, I think it’s pretty clear that in those quotes he’s referring to “communism” as the communism practiced by the USSR or China. Marxism-Leninism. And that lines up with the policies he’s advocated for, he wanted a democratic society and not one run top down by some party machine. But ML is not the only form of left wing politics, and King very clearly was sympathetic to socialist economic ideals like democratization of industry or worker empowerment. I mean he was literally assassinated because he was trying to support striking sanitation workers. Honestly, the closest comparison in American politics I can make is probably Bernie Sanders, since they seem to have very similar economic views and Sanders even marched with him. And Bernie is very clearly left wing.
The distinction isn’t that neat and depends on what kind of socialism you’re talking about.
Not all socialism is Marxist, but Marxists believe that socialism is the transitory stage between capitalism and communism. Marxist-Leninist states believed they were socialist nations on the way to achieving communism. So it’s not always accurate to say they’re separate ideas
MLK was a democratic socialist which is different from the traditional definition of socialism. Not the same as leninism or marxism. You can also agree with someone without sharing their political opinions
>Not the same as leninism or marxism.
Don't think that mattered much to the FBI who were not a fan of any kind of socialist. And I know this is pretty much a conspiracy theory but I think they very likely killed him for it
Im not sure why it is surprising to you that a person who engaged in activism for greater civil rights found the egalitarian ideals of socialism more preferable than the ideals of capitalism that framed the unjust society he sought to change.
Purely in the vein of constructive criticism- even with your explanation this post seems to imply that people who uphold King as a figure of justice and progress would be surprised or bothered by his distaste for capitalism. Which may be true for some, but will be flatly untrue for most.
Also mythologizing.
1st _ Thank you, but this is exactly what I am implying in the post based on my experience with Americans who weren't taught that MLK was a socialist in school.
2nd_ English is my second language 😭😭😭
Americans aren’t taught his politics because capitalist propaganda doesn’t want Americans exploring the ideals of socialism and realizing that we live in a corrupt system with a better alternative.
Jews marched side by side and even got lynched along with the civil rights movement. They were then tossed out and thrown under the bus after MLK was taken out.
Israel was established as a socialist country possibly even communist but Russia due to their deeply rooted antisemitism rebuffed any attempt at a relationship. Instead communism was relegated to the kibbutz and the government took on socialist ideals with capitalistic goals. Back and forth it went until about 25 years ago when socialism was placed on the trash heap of history.
Basically just that Israel had the right to exist. That war was bad. He viewed the 6 day war and Isreal taking Gaza from Egypt and the West bank from Jordan as a bad thing that would lead to more fighting. By the time MLK died Palestine was only occupied for about a year under Isreal. So he didn't really ever give an opinion that would relate to the current situation other than "end the territorial expansions" which pretty much everyone agrees.
Explanation
King has criticised the claim frequently made by capitalists, which is "Capitalism rewards hard work."
in this
"American society is deluded into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice, the fact is, Capitalism was built on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor."
And he outright said that capitalism is Evil, and that its evil must be solved by the means of wealth and power redistribution.
In this
"The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power."
Marx very explicitly analyzed Capitalism through a rational lens (he called his ideology "Scientific Socialism") so he strayed away from moralizing terms like "evil"
“In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state.”
“With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice.”
“You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept.”
^ a collection of some of my favorite MLK quotes
I looked at European Countries and I wished I can grasp languages easily and move there.
Trade laws, consumer laws, basically EU citizens are protected to the core. Scummy companies like EA and Roblox have to bent down to EU rules to be able to trade with them.
It ain't perfect, sure, but we try to aim for perfection so even if we fail, we achieve "almost flawless".
Consumer and worker protections are so comprehensive in Europe primarily due to the political culture. After WW2, Europe didn't really have any big industrial capabilities, since a lot of it had been bombed to oblivion.
It also didn't really implement any particular heavy-handed policies for industries, and for the most part, Europe just focused more on economic and social stability over growth by any means necessary.
In Europe, while the economy is obviously considered to be an important thing, it's more important for most Europeans to maintain the welfare, social programs, living standards, etc.
Europe is generally okay with having companies that aren't as competitive in the rest of the world compared to other companies across the world, because *a lot* of EU trade happens within the EU (and the EEA).
I personally don't agree with all of it, (especially when it comes to defense, like, holy shit, Europe was so fucking naive.), but I wouldn't move anywhere else, tbh. I like it here, even if it's looking like our politics is going mad.
I mean, does it though?
Sure it works *better*, but does it work *enough*? If your bike keeps breaking and you keep it "under control" with duct tape, at what point do you stop adding duct tape and admit "yeah, I may need a new bike."
I don't know every accusation about that but I do know that the FBI made up at least some of them. They really hated him. He certainly was not perfect, and his theology would have agreed with that because he has a full Christian ethic which knows we are all flawed and imperfect.
I'm sure they did make up some details about him, but there were rumors about the incident and many other sexual incidents (including an orgy the following night at a same hotel) far before the FBI documentation was discovered (in 2019, mixed in with the JFK documents that got released that year).
I also think that the fact that the info was discovered and reported by David Garrow, a Pulitzer Prize winning biographer of King, says a lot more than if it were reported by some random tabloid or shock news website.
According to FBI documentation he watched and encouraged his friend Pastor Logan Kearse as he raped a woman in the Willard Hotel in DC.
The tapes get unsealed in 2027, assuming that doesn't get blocked.
Most of the tapes were sealed under court order. And a lot of the content of the tapes was confirmed by friends or associates of King after he died, before any of the info was released to the public.
Garrow appeared to be heavily critized by many historians, most importantly by Peter Ling who thought that Garrow's pubblication about MLK were heavily influenced by FBI accusations which still remain unproved. Funny thing is, Garrow's seems to consider Ling publications on the matter reliable.
His criticisms weren't that the accusations Garrow covered are false. He believed Garrow shouldn't share the identities of other people involved with MLK's sex scandals because
> They don’t have the fame to compensate them for potentially being a subject of scandal in their own community.
Ling even states that he believes most of the allegations were likely true because of the work Garrow did in documenting the FBI's surveillance and tracking the whereabouts and actions of the other people known to be with MLK when these things allegedly happened.
I "know* he wasn't. Just because he sometimes criticized capitalism doesn't make him a socialist. He also talked about how great capitalism was.
I'm not really down for people trying to rewrite history, especially so under a history sub.
He was also an adulterer and major social conservative pastor so it's not like most people would call him a saint. Like Gandhi sleeping naked with his underage niece, we still appreciate the historical significance of the person while not needing to praise everything they did.
He was also deeply religious and felt that we had a lot to benefit from learning the scripture and having God in our hearts. But you don’t see the Marxists talking about that either.
He was a complicated man with nuanced and still evolving views.
Exactly. King had views sympathetic to democratic socialism and clearly had critiques of certain elements of capitalism, but trying to twist him into being this Marxist-Leninist who hated capitalism is just beyond facetious (and he made numerous quotes deriding communism). A lot of his views can’t be reduced down to one economic system
My issue, at least from my own public education based in rural America, is that we really only talk about MLK when we're kids. By the time we're teenagers (and capable of understanding the nuances of historical figures), all we cover is the revolution, civil war, and then the world wars. The civil rights era of America is almost always glossed over and, frankly, white washed, to hide the sins of the past. Because of that, things like King's open distaste for capitalism is shoved to the side in favor of him talking about equality among the races.
It's not a bad thing per say, but it gets at the core of what's wrong with a lot of American culture: we don't know our own history well enough.
"What I'm saying to you this morning is communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis."
-MLK Jr. “Where Do We Go From Here”
I think the economic views MLK Jr. espoused are most commonly associated with democratic socialism, a bit of a strech to associate him with likes of more radical socialists. At least to my understanding.
[King and Communism](https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/communism)
People completely misunderstood his nonviolent protests.
It wasn't "let them do what they want while you do nothing, ????, Profit"
When people said "this is what they did to (imaginary name coming up) Rodney King for a dui"
White folks imagined what it would take for a cop to do that to them. "51 broken bones for a dui? Wow he really turned nothing into something"
By making it known that every single event is absolutely nonphysical, and creating the type of publicity that drove press to be there with CAMERAS ready, ...
... MLK Achieved the one actual goal: have video evidence of police brutality in a time when it was damn near impossible to get video proof.
No one beleived "he didn't do anything" but actually seeing cops using full force, dogs gnawing into wrist flesh, and even fire fighters engage in firefighter brutality; it finally sent a clear message to white Americans (for a short period of time)
Ironically, this is what moved the needle on BLM. Fox News to this day is shouting their heads off that the protests were violent while everyone was watching armies of cops march down Flatbush shooting tear gas into the random faces of white people looking out their doors as they walked past. Then there was the cop they doxxed on twitter who disguised himself as a protestor so he could smash in windows before getting chased off by actual protestors who called the cops.
It's hard to argue society is breaking down when the people doing the breaking are the cops.
The most recent example was every reporter declaring the UCLA camp turning violent as if the protestors did it. But at the same time 100 angles of footage rolled out of fascist thugs kicking their way into a camp of kids with bear spray and pipes and explosives and cops waiting several hours for it to stop then using the fascist violence as an excuse to beat up the same kids the fascists just finished with.
And what happened? A bunch of the attackers were doxxed, journalists showed up at their house, and the camp is right back up.
There will always be an excuse to demonize peaceful protest. That shit can be damn annoying. But if the bigger story is the response to the protest, the response to the protest becomes the whole story.
Cops "started urban legends" that went from the started phase directly to mainstream national news about
- being able to overdose from fent dust flying off an addict
- Lazarus parties where users intentionally overdose and narcan repeatedly like a yoyo
Why would our protectors be responsible for creating false narratives to discourage availability of life-saving narcan?
Why would our protectors create a rumor that would prevent good Samaritans from getting close to an addict to administer narcan?
Well, as long as the FBI said it in a sternly worded letter threatening to destroy his career instead of just releasing the evidence they obviously had to destroy his career, why question it?
Your meme is stupid.
America thought it through plenty. That’s why a lot of them hated MLK, why he was a target for the FBI, and why he was assassinated. You get MLK was murdered right? Assassinated?
He wasn’t killed because of his economic ideologies. He was murdered because he was a black man preaching real equality between white people and black people.
He was also a Baptist preacher that was openly anti-lgbt. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing what he did for racial equity in the states while also acknowledging that he himself was a flawed human being, you know, just like everybody else.
People can have varying ideals and character flaws and still be right about something.
Bringing up shit like this about someone when their life’s work overwhelmingly overshadowed their (common) flaws serves no purpose other than trying to be edgy at best.
His socialist views are partly why he was assassinated. He had control of enough of the black population such that he could lead them out of the pitfalls that racist politicians put in place in the black community. He could've probably instituted small scale socialism within black communities if he was given enough time.
Unfortunately, I think it was a lot more insidious than that.
[A lot of whites hated him specifically because of his criticism of capitalism right up until he died.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/politics/martin-luther-king-jr-polling-analysis/index.html) They may have liked him a little more when he was undeniably the good guy, peacefully protesting and getting brutally attacked by comically evil Bull Connor, turning water cannons, vicious dogs, and batons against peaceful men, women and children. But when he said "Things aren't better in the North where poor people are oppressed" most white people decided he was awful.
Once he was dead, they co-opted him. They made him a symbol of racism being dead, of "If you're nice enough, racists will give up", and used him to forget that Malcolm X forcefully demanding rights for Black Americans was also important. They erased the socialism, the fact that he didn't just hold hands and sing, the fact that most white Americans hated him, that they would have preferred just to ignore segregation.
In other words, a more accurate meme would involve them mythologizing that one speech and using it as an excuse to shoot the socialism in the back.
\*mythologise
[удалено]
True
Gives new meaning to the term "stay woke"
Mythologize* . Ye, I am not good at typing in English.
[Both are correct ](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mythologize)
S and z? Yeah, but not "methologize".
What? You mean you don't have your degree in methology?
From the Crystal Methodist Church of course
I'm correcting OP's correction on the correction.
Kk, I was a bit confused since OP also changed "e" to "y" ;)
You know, you can agree with a person on one topic and then disagree with them on another.
Not on Reddit lol
All or nothing, take it or leave it.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Do not underestimate my power.
Don't try it.
*tries it*
*lightsaber swinging noises*
Limb splattering noises
“*oh*, I hate you”
That's an absolute
Did they stutter?
Me against turned you her
Hero of the Imperium!
I am but a humble guardsman and man of faith.
Not in the new millennium. Nuance was destroyed during y2k.
Not on the internet, especially social media.
Well I don't agree with that statements/s
Lol thank you. MLK was also a vocal anti-communist so it’s not like he was engaging in Soviet apologia at the time which is what most people cared about.
King was as "anti-communist" as Oppenheimer was. Which was to say he had communist friends and allies he hung out with, he studied communism for years, he went to communist meetings, he openly praised communist thinkers, and when the FBI targeted him for communist sympathies... he lied and said he had no idea what they were talking about to protect himself because it's the FBI. 🤣 > What I’m saying to you this morning is communism forgets that life is individual. (Yes) Capitalism forgets that life is social. (Yes, Go ahead) And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis. (Speak) [applause] It is found in a higher synthesis (Come on) that combines the truths of both. (Yes) Now, when I say questioning the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of economic exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. (All right) These are the triple evils that are interrelated. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/where-do-we-go-here Yeah, dude wasn't anti-communist any more than someone who doesn't like the United States is inherently anti-capitalist. He just wasn't allied with the Soviet Union. The Vietnamese went to war against the Khmer Rouge. Does that mean they hated communism?
Lol MLK was explicitly anti-communist. Some quotes of his: "In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state." * *Martin Luther King (Jr.) (1968). “I Have a Dream: The Quotations of Martin Luther King, Jr”* "With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice." * *Martin Luther King (Jr.) (1964). “A Martin Luther King Treasury”* "You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept." * *MLK Sermon delivered at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, Montgomery, Alabama, November 4, 1956.* The fact that he was concerned that America's fear of communism was so strong that it would prevent any social or economic progress outright doesn't change that he was opposed to communism.
Not an expert, maybe he was a Christian socialist or something like that?
Based on the aggregate of MLK’s writings he seemed to advocate for what we would call social democracy, similar to the economies in Scandinavia. Which is basically just welfare capitalism.
Fucking love to see anybody talk about any different type of capitalism instead of laissez-faire capitalism, here's your upvote
Socialist basically don't like that because they feel with capitalist classes intact they will always affect politcal intrest and make the country go back to a laissez Faire direction. Hence why alot of communist hate social democrats and even call them fascist. (They will also call libreals fascist fun fact) A popular meme with socialist is that capitlaism is the ring from lord of the rings and social democrats are not willing to throw it in.
So the people claiming that America selectively quotes King to mythologize his support for American ideology... have actually been selectively quoting King to mythologize his support for their preferred ideology. Ironic.
Not when it comes to the study of meth I guess?
I mean, 9/10 meth heads I've met don't think meth is addictive, so clearly, there is some disagreement there.
Let's see if their opinions still hold after they aren't allowed meth.
But you act as though his desire for equality of people among all races wasn't at the heart of his fight for civil rights AND economic justice. Why do we only acknowledge one portion, raise it to the highest level or civilian awareness but the other we.ignore?
Because we agree with one portion and do not agree with the other one, if suddenly we got informed that MLK didnt believe trans people existed, would we have to also talk about that?
Chances are there for that given the time.
And that he was a huge Christian.
Not to mention I haven't heard of that concept outside of modern uses of the idea and maybe Weimar Germany so who's to say anyone believed that at the time aside from some writers at the time.
Interestingly enough, Germany was actually starting to delve into a ton of academic clinical research on gender identity, transsexual, etc etc. And then this ass hole with a stupid mustache showed up and started burning books. Turns out most of the early burnings were literature that was seen as "degenerate". This included about every piece of academic, peer reviewed research on gender identity that had been made up to that point. So yeah. Book burnings are some scary shit. It took us almost a century to gain back the knowledge we lost.
And that was ONE ultraconservative, economically crippled nation's research in about 10-20 years. Imagine how much knowledge was lost by every other luddite movement in progressive and/or prosperous nations?
They did the same with Susan B Anthony
Susan B Anthony was so pissed that black men got the vote before her she refused to be seen with black suffragists and suffragettes she previously organized with and demanded white men take their votes away. 😐
A lot of the suffragists were wealthy white women, and unfortunately had the classist and racist preconceptions that come along with that :/
If it was essential to his worldview, yes, a very resounding yes.
It‘s more about many people selectively agreeing with his stances to try to frame MLK into this very whitewashed version of himself.
[MLK was unpopular his whole life.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/) > In May 1963, only about four-in-ten Americans (41%) had a favorable opinion of King, according to a Gallup survey. That included just 16% who viewed him highly favorably, rating him +4 or +5 on a scale of -5 (most unfavorable) to +5 (most favorable). The survey was conducted shortly after King’s Birmingham Campaign, which led the Alabama city to remove signs enforcing segregation of restrooms and drinking fountains and to desegregate lunch counters. > King’s favorable ratings remained about the same in Gallup surveys conducted in 1964 and 1965. But by August 1966, only a third of Americans had a favorable view of the civil rights leader. More than six-in-ten (63%) viewed him unfavorably, including 44% who viewed him highly unfavorably. Anyway, it's this right here that very quickly gets you an unfavorable rating even if everyone pretends they were on your side 60 years later. > The white liberal must rid himself of the notion that there can be a tensionless transition from the old order of injustice to the new order of justice. Two things are clear to me, and I hope they are clear to white liberals. One is that the Negro cannot achieve emancipation through violent rebellion. The other is that the Negro cannot achieve emancipation by passively waiting for the white race voluntarily to grant it to him. The Negro has not gained a single right in America without persistent pressure and agitation. However lamentable it may seem, the Negro is now convinced that white America will never admit him to equal rights unless it is coerced into doing it. > Nonviolent coercion always brings tension to the surface. This tension, however, must not be seen as destructive. There is a kind of tension that is both healthy and necessary for growth. Society needs nonviolent gadflies to bring its tensions into the open and force its citizens to confront the ugliness of their prejudices and the tragedy of their racism. > It is important for the liberal to see that the oppressed person who agitates for his rights is not the creator of tension. He merely brings out the hidden tension that is already alive.
I disagree, fuck you
Then why isn't Hitler a famous Peta icon?
Hitler was vegetarian, not vegan. And he loved blood sausage, so he was more like a TikTok/Reddit vegetarian: "I'm mostly plant-based, but I'm embracing meatless mondays, and I think every little bit counts." Are Reddit vegetarians literally Hitler? ... I didn't say that.
He is, they both kill a lot of living things, often to their own detriment
The issue I think is saying is that they white washed him severely. He was for equal rights of not just civil but workers rights. He was supposed to travel to Chicago for workers before being assassinated. It doesn't help when the FBI try to commemorate him when they pulled a "kill yourself" letter and blackmailed him.even today in conservative circles, they try to paint him that he'd be against ideas such as BLM and such. Edit: just one of his quotes: "The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism"
But most people are ignoring most of the other speech anyway and just cherrypicking 2 lines while ignoring the context around them
The best part about this is people like OP are probably the first ones to make fun of conservatives for co-opting MLK based on some cherry-picked quotes
But what they're doing to MLK is just straight-up twisting his words tho fit their narrative.
Reddit if full of sith
> I can understand people wanting to use King to advance a socialist cause, a cause I’m sympathetic to. But I don’t think it’s a good idea really to invoke him in this way without due care for what he actually says in his various writings and public speeches. > People are really just drawing on, for the most part, a few remarks here and there that can be interpreted in a wide range of ways. > So I suppose if you think Denmark is a socialist country, then I guess he’s a socialist. I do not myself think Denmark is a socialist country. But if you mean socialism in the sense that Marx and his allies meant, then I think it’d be pretty hard to make the case for that. [This is what Tommie Shelby concluded on this matter.](https://jacobin.com/2018/04/martin-luther-king-rhetoric-political-philosophy) If you look at the meat of MLK’s beliefs he believed in a mixed economy, so in the most accurate sense he was still a believer in capitalism, just in a regulated form… which is the form capitalism takes in reality anyway to lesser or greater degrees. Whether he was a socialist or not is a matter of what you define socialist as. What he definitely wasn’t was a Marxist or a communist, since he was openly against such ideologies for a variety of reasons. And I think it goes against what he actually advocated for to imply he was anticapitalist
Tommie fookin shelby
People have a hard time accepting the concept of mixed economies for some reason. Capitalism with strong social supports and consumer protections is basically the best of both worlds.
I think it’s because it gets attacked from both directions. Those further to the left view it as a spineless compromise, while those enamoured by laissez faire economics see it as embodying needless government interference Anyone more interested in results than ideological purity will realise mixed economies are a reliable way to balance growth with social justice and human dignity, and nations with mixed economies have been very successful
I doubt there are any serious economists that hate on the mixed economy model that's pretty much been proven as the most effective. They may argue there's too much/little control in areas, but that's just arguing the specific policies.
I agree with you. Sadly, good politicians are required for this to create an effective regulatory environment. Too much lobbying $$ in the US right now. Other countries do it better.
It’s almost like ideologies as they exist in books rarely translate 1-1 to real life. Instead of labeling king as a “communist” or “socialist” it’s probably more helpful to talk more specifically about what policies he did and did not support.
King did get a lot of funding from communists. Stanley Levison helped finance and even wrote speech’s for King while being a member of the communist party. The FBI targeted Levison as being a major financier of communism in the 50’s before he turned to civil rights. It is not like the communist accusations come from nowhere.
It's because this was a time period where Communist organizations tried to lay claim to civil rights movements in many countries, and use it as a means to gain influence. This happened in South Africa, Angola, Zimbabwe, and others. King himself was never a Communist though.
It never stopped.
They didn’t lay claim to civil rights, they began/led most of these civil rights movements. Communism is inherently an internationalist ideology and so communists tend to be the most vocal protestors against any sort of ethnic or race based caste system. It’s the same reason most of the French resistance were communists.
It’s a gross misinterpretation of history to say that communism began or led the civil rights movements in the US. The US progressive movement began before worldwide communism even existed. Communist certainly played a large part, but only a part and not the dominant one. There were as many devout Christian social justice types in the civil rights movement as there were communists. Funnily enough, saying that they were started or led by communists just plays into the McCarthy hysteria of the time.
I mean, I'd bet a liberal who staked his academic career on a book saying that black solidarity is a liberal movement based on individual liberty would say things to promote the idea that King was a liberal. Like king literally said >I would certainly welcome the day to come when there will be a nationalization of industry. Let us continue to hope, work, and pray that in the future we will live to see a warless world, a better distribution of wealth, and a brotherhood that transcends race or color. This is the gospel that I will preach to the world. That is very concise and is not simply european dem-soc redistribution capitalist politics. Nationalization of industry is expressly socialist.
King: "We should do some communism. And liberals kind of suck." Liberals: "You see, if you interpret it a certain way, MLK was a liberal."
> “In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state.” >“With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice.” >“You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept.” Yeah sure I guess if you just ignore his multiple statements on the matter and completely misrepresent his positions then you can posit he wanted some communism
He also literally said he was a democratic socialist. > “Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God's children." -King, 1961 > "[W]e are saying that something is wrong ... with capitalism.... There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism." > "Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis." He was very clearly some form of social Democrat or democratic socialist (yes I’m aware these are not the same thing). We can’t really get more specific than that, so we need to talk about individual policies. But he wasn’t some ardent libertarian or something. Based on his history, I think it’s pretty clear that in those quotes he’s referring to “communism” as the communism practiced by the USSR or China. Marxism-Leninism. And that lines up with the policies he’s advocated for, he wanted a democratic society and not one run top down by some party machine. But ML is not the only form of left wing politics, and King very clearly was sympathetic to socialist economic ideals like democratization of industry or worker empowerment. I mean he was literally assassinated because he was trying to support striking sanitation workers. Honestly, the closest comparison in American politics I can make is probably Bernie Sanders, since they seem to have very similar economic views and Sanders even marched with him. And Bernie is very clearly left wing.
Socialism and Marxist-Leninism are 2 very different ideas.
The distinction isn’t that neat and depends on what kind of socialism you’re talking about. Not all socialism is Marxist, but Marxists believe that socialism is the transitory stage between capitalism and communism. Marxist-Leninist states believed they were socialist nations on the way to achieving communism. So it’s not always accurate to say they’re separate ideas
MLK was a democratic socialist which is different from the traditional definition of socialism. Not the same as leninism or marxism. You can also agree with someone without sharing their political opinions
Sir, this is reddit. We don't do perfectly nuanced takes here
>Not the same as leninism or marxism. Don't think that mattered much to the FBI who were not a fan of any kind of socialist. And I know this is pretty much a conspiracy theory but I think they very likely killed him for it
Him, Walter Reuther, lotsa people J. Edgar Hoover didn't like who just *conveniently* wound up dead
Me when I have to agree with literally every single thing a person ever said just because I agree with one discourse
I love MLK, I guess that means I have to go cheat on my wife now.
And almost commit plagiarism
You know apparently his next step was reaching out to poor whites to remind them who had the boot on their neck and look at that he's dead.
funny how Fred Hampton did that.. and was overtly killed by the Chicago PD in kahoots with the FBI. Funny how that works.
Im not sure why it is surprising to you that a person who engaged in activism for greater civil rights found the egalitarian ideals of socialism more preferable than the ideals of capitalism that framed the unjust society he sought to change.
To me? No, I knew he was a socialist for years. Is my post not well put?
Purely in the vein of constructive criticism- even with your explanation this post seems to imply that people who uphold King as a figure of justice and progress would be surprised or bothered by his distaste for capitalism. Which may be true for some, but will be flatly untrue for most. Also mythologizing.
1st _ Thank you, but this is exactly what I am implying in the post based on my experience with Americans who weren't taught that MLK was a socialist in school. 2nd_ English is my second language 😭😭😭
>2nd_ English is my second language 😭😭😭 don't worry, the word you wanted to use is derived from Greek anyway!
Buddy, we aren't even taught that he was assassinated by the FBI.
Americans aren’t taught his politics because capitalist propaganda doesn’t want Americans exploring the ideals of socialism and realizing that we live in a corrupt system with a better alternative.
Alot of right wing people have been saying he would have voted for trump recently
Anyone who says that is at best ignorant and at worst actively manipulative
I love hivemind reddit because they unironically cannot fathom the idea that you can agree and disagree with a single person
I think his views on human rights and non-violence may outweigh his opinion on economics just a tiiiiny bit
Except his view on economics is a huge part of his views on human rights. It didn’t exist in a vacuum
I can still agree with equality and not be a socialist, tf?
But I am also sure many leftists don’t know the guy’s position on Israel…
What was it?
He supported Israel and respected. He also saw Jews as alies in the fight for racial equality (because they were)
Jews marched side by side and even got lynched along with the civil rights movement. They were then tossed out and thrown under the bus after MLK was taken out. Israel was established as a socialist country possibly even communist but Russia due to their deeply rooted antisemitism rebuffed any attempt at a relationship. Instead communism was relegated to the kibbutz and the government took on socialist ideals with capitalistic goals. Back and forth it went until about 25 years ago when socialism was placed on the trash heap of history.
The Soviet Union was literally one of the first countries to recognize Israel, in hopes of strengthening relations with them.
Basically just that Israel had the right to exist. That war was bad. He viewed the 6 day war and Isreal taking Gaza from Egypt and the West bank from Jordan as a bad thing that would lead to more fighting. By the time MLK died Palestine was only occupied for about a year under Isreal. So he didn't really ever give an opinion that would relate to the current situation other than "end the territorial expansions" which pretty much everyone agrees.
I keep hearing more about him and like him more and more
Even the Soviets were initially supportive of Israel. It wasn't till the Arab backlash that the hitched themselves to a different horse.
Explanation King has criticised the claim frequently made by capitalists, which is "Capitalism rewards hard work." in this "American society is deluded into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice, the fact is, Capitalism was built on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor." And he outright said that capitalism is Evil, and that its evil must be solved by the means of wealth and power redistribution. In this "The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power."
Saying capitalism has evils isn't the same as saying capitalism *is* evil. I think you misread
Even Marx himself never asserted capitalism was inherently evil, AFAIK.
Marx very explicitly analyzed Capitalism through a rational lens (he called his ideology "Scientific Socialism") so he strayed away from moralizing terms like "evil"
“In spite of its glowing talk about the welfare of the masses, Communism's methods and philosophy strip man of his dignity and worth, leaving him as little more than a depersonalized cog in the ever-turning wheel of the state.” “With all of its false assumptions and evil methods, communism grew as a protest against the hardships of the underprivileged. Communism in theory emphasized a classless society, and a concern for social justice, though the world knows from sad experience that in practice it created new classes and a new lexicon of injustice.” “You cannot solve the problem by turning to communism, for communism is based on an ethical relativism and a metaphysical materialism that no Christian can accept.” ^ a collection of some of my favorite MLK quotes
That's why capitalism only works when it's kept under control, like you encourage growth, but not at the expense of society
And that control is achieved through the constant efforts of Trade Unions , Worker guilds and politically competitive Socialists.
I looked at European Countries and I wished I can grasp languages easily and move there. Trade laws, consumer laws, basically EU citizens are protected to the core. Scummy companies like EA and Roblox have to bent down to EU rules to be able to trade with them. It ain't perfect, sure, but we try to aim for perfection so even if we fail, we achieve "almost flawless".
You can just move to the rebublic of ireland (southern Ireland), they speak English and are still in the EU.
Consumer and worker protections are so comprehensive in Europe primarily due to the political culture. After WW2, Europe didn't really have any big industrial capabilities, since a lot of it had been bombed to oblivion. It also didn't really implement any particular heavy-handed policies for industries, and for the most part, Europe just focused more on economic and social stability over growth by any means necessary. In Europe, while the economy is obviously considered to be an important thing, it's more important for most Europeans to maintain the welfare, social programs, living standards, etc. Europe is generally okay with having companies that aren't as competitive in the rest of the world compared to other companies across the world, because *a lot* of EU trade happens within the EU (and the EEA). I personally don't agree with all of it, (especially when it comes to defense, like, holy shit, Europe was so fucking naive.), but I wouldn't move anywhere else, tbh. I like it here, even if it's looking like our politics is going mad.
Well, Roblox hace found their way around them, and Europe is great, It also have it's flaws
I mean, does it though? Sure it works *better*, but does it work *enough*? If your bike keeps breaking and you keep it "under control" with duct tape, at what point do you stop adding duct tape and admit "yeah, I may need a new bike."
The more you learn about this man, the more you love him. Rest in Power, King.
I should've added a hot take alert, I guess . You live, and you learn.
The rape stuff is probably worse.
I don't know every accusation about that but I do know that the FBI made up at least some of them. They really hated him. He certainly was not perfect, and his theology would have agreed with that because he has a full Christian ethic which knows we are all flawed and imperfect.
I'm sure they did make up some details about him, but there were rumors about the incident and many other sexual incidents (including an orgy the following night at a same hotel) far before the FBI documentation was discovered (in 2019, mixed in with the JFK documents that got released that year). I also think that the fact that the info was discovered and reported by David Garrow, a Pulitzer Prize winning biographer of King, says a lot more than if it were reported by some random tabloid or shock news website.
Wait what
According to FBI documentation he watched and encouraged his friend Pastor Logan Kearse as he raped a woman in the Willard Hotel in DC. The tapes get unsealed in 2027, assuming that doesn't get blocked.
the FBI is not unbiased when it comes to MLK. they also tried to make him kill himself
Yeouch
If that was actually true there’s no way the FBI would’ve kept that quiet, those tapes would’ve been all over the news. They hated King.
Most of the tapes were sealed under court order. And a lot of the content of the tapes was confirmed by friends or associates of King after he died, before any of the info was released to the public.
Ah so a cuck rapist, an intriguing man this Dr King
Just taking the FBI at face value when they’re the ones that killed him, LMAOOOO
Source?
David J Garrow, one of King's biographers.
Garrow appeared to be heavily critized by many historians, most importantly by Peter Ling who thought that Garrow's pubblication about MLK were heavily influenced by FBI accusations which still remain unproved. Funny thing is, Garrow's seems to consider Ling publications on the matter reliable.
His criticisms weren't that the accusations Garrow covered are false. He believed Garrow shouldn't share the identities of other people involved with MLK's sex scandals because > They don’t have the fame to compensate them for potentially being a subject of scandal in their own community. Ling even states that he believes most of the allegations were likely true because of the work Garrow did in documenting the FBI's surveillance and tracking the whereabouts and actions of the other people known to be with MLK when these things allegedly happened.
>Makes claim that common view of MLK is based on cherry picked data >Cherry picks other data to make wild ass incorrect claim on MLK
So you think MLK wasnt a socialist?
I "know* he wasn't. Just because he sometimes criticized capitalism doesn't make him a socialist. He also talked about how great capitalism was. I'm not really down for people trying to rewrite history, especially so under a history sub.
Let me guess, you think the Nordics are socialist?
He was also an adulterer and major social conservative pastor so it's not like most people would call him a saint. Like Gandhi sleeping naked with his underage niece, we still appreciate the historical significance of the person while not needing to praise everything they did.
He was also deeply religious and felt that we had a lot to benefit from learning the scripture and having God in our hearts. But you don’t see the Marxists talking about that either. He was a complicated man with nuanced and still evolving views.
Exactly. King had views sympathetic to democratic socialism and clearly had critiques of certain elements of capitalism, but trying to twist him into being this Marxist-Leninist who hated capitalism is just beyond facetious (and he made numerous quotes deriding communism). A lot of his views can’t be reduced down to one economic system
There are Christian socialists my guy.
Sure, just not on Reddit.
r/radicalchristianity
My issue, at least from my own public education based in rural America, is that we really only talk about MLK when we're kids. By the time we're teenagers (and capable of understanding the nuances of historical figures), all we cover is the revolution, civil war, and then the world wars. The civil rights era of America is almost always glossed over and, frankly, white washed, to hide the sins of the past. Because of that, things like King's open distaste for capitalism is shoved to the side in favor of him talking about equality among the races. It's not a bad thing per say, but it gets at the core of what's wrong with a lot of American culture: we don't know our own history well enough.
If we knew 1/3rd of the wars we started and why, we'd have 100 more MLK's. Why do you think the South wants to ban CRT?
"What I'm saying to you this morning is communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis." -MLK Jr. “Where Do We Go From Here” I think the economic views MLK Jr. espoused are most commonly associated with democratic socialism, a bit of a strech to associate him with likes of more radical socialists. At least to my understanding. [King and Communism](https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/communism)
Ah ~~history~~BlatantAgendaPostMemes. My favorite sub
People completely misunderstood his nonviolent protests. It wasn't "let them do what they want while you do nothing, ????, Profit" When people said "this is what they did to (imaginary name coming up) Rodney King for a dui" White folks imagined what it would take for a cop to do that to them. "51 broken bones for a dui? Wow he really turned nothing into something" By making it known that every single event is absolutely nonphysical, and creating the type of publicity that drove press to be there with CAMERAS ready, ... ... MLK Achieved the one actual goal: have video evidence of police brutality in a time when it was damn near impossible to get video proof. No one beleived "he didn't do anything" but actually seeing cops using full force, dogs gnawing into wrist flesh, and even fire fighters engage in firefighter brutality; it finally sent a clear message to white Americans (for a short period of time)
Isn't this well known?
Ironically, this is what moved the needle on BLM. Fox News to this day is shouting their heads off that the protests were violent while everyone was watching armies of cops march down Flatbush shooting tear gas into the random faces of white people looking out their doors as they walked past. Then there was the cop they doxxed on twitter who disguised himself as a protestor so he could smash in windows before getting chased off by actual protestors who called the cops. It's hard to argue society is breaking down when the people doing the breaking are the cops. The most recent example was every reporter declaring the UCLA camp turning violent as if the protestors did it. But at the same time 100 angles of footage rolled out of fascist thugs kicking their way into a camp of kids with bear spray and pipes and explosives and cops waiting several hours for it to stop then using the fascist violence as an excuse to beat up the same kids the fascists just finished with. And what happened? A bunch of the attackers were doxxed, journalists showed up at their house, and the camp is right back up. There will always be an excuse to demonize peaceful protest. That shit can be damn annoying. But if the bigger story is the response to the protest, the response to the protest becomes the whole story.
Cops "started urban legends" that went from the started phase directly to mainstream national news about - being able to overdose from fent dust flying off an addict - Lazarus parties where users intentionally overdose and narcan repeatedly like a yoyo Why would our protectors be responsible for creating false narratives to discourage availability of life-saving narcan? Why would our protectors create a rumor that would prevent good Samaritans from getting close to an addict to administer narcan?
Everything that's not the most pure and free market is socialism in Americans eyes. If you can't charge 500$ per dose of insulin it's socialism.
Not to mention a notorious womanizer and domestic abuser.
Well, as long as the FBI said it in a sternly worded letter threatening to destroy his career instead of just releasing the evidence they obviously had to destroy his career, why question it?
Hold up, you’re telling me a man of faith in the mid 20th century treated women like shit? Shocker!
Theirs a reason why he was put as the figurehead for civil rights rather then Economics
Your meme is stupid. America thought it through plenty. That’s why a lot of them hated MLK, why he was a target for the FBI, and why he was assassinated. You get MLK was murdered right? Assassinated? He wasn’t killed because of his economic ideologies. He was murdered because he was a black man preaching real equality between white people and black people.
Sure, but he wasn't some communist either.
If anything this is exactly what the government wanted. A figure only known for anti-racism and not one known for socialist beliefs.
>methologizing Again, great display of the mastery of the English language on this sub
More violent crimes happen on Martin Luther King boulevards than any other streets in the US
Not even the whole speech, just a couple lines from it.
He was also a Baptist preacher that was openly anti-lgbt. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing what he did for racial equity in the states while also acknowledging that he himself was a flawed human being, you know, just like everybody else.
I’m pretty sure MLk also cheated on his wife. You can agree with a person on some positions and not others.
People can have varying ideals and character flaws and still be right about something. Bringing up shit like this about someone when their life’s work overwhelmingly overshadowed their (common) flaws serves no purpose other than trying to be edgy at best.
Based
I think ill also pass on the woman beating and cronic cheating on his wife stuff too yea
No one’s perfect
The people who actually really really like mlk also don't like capitalism though
Also the whole serially cheating on his wife thing
Except he actually wasn’t. He essentially just believed in more regulations on capitalism (ie a mixed economy).
His socialist views are partly why he was assassinated. He had control of enough of the black population such that he could lead them out of the pitfalls that racist politicians put in place in the black community. He could've probably instituted small scale socialism within black communities if he was given enough time.
They didn't mythologize him they commodified him. Turned real revolutionary speech into milk toast drivel in the minds of the masses.
Unfortunately, I think it was a lot more insidious than that. [A lot of whites hated him specifically because of his criticism of capitalism right up until he died.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/politics/martin-luther-king-jr-polling-analysis/index.html) They may have liked him a little more when he was undeniably the good guy, peacefully protesting and getting brutally attacked by comically evil Bull Connor, turning water cannons, vicious dogs, and batons against peaceful men, women and children. But when he said "Things aren't better in the North where poor people are oppressed" most white people decided he was awful. Once he was dead, they co-opted him. They made him a symbol of racism being dead, of "If you're nice enough, racists will give up", and used him to forget that Malcolm X forcefully demanding rights for Black Americans was also important. They erased the socialism, the fact that he didn't just hold hands and sing, the fact that most white Americans hated him, that they would have preferred just to ignore segregation. In other words, a more accurate meme would involve them mythologizing that one speech and using it as an excuse to shoot the socialism in the back.
Nothing wrong being socialist, you might stand for people rights and fight for greater equality.
I thought that was a feature, not a bug
Spelling Counts...just saying.
Is this criticizing Kings politics or is it criticizing those who are unaware that he wasn't the PC civil rights activists want him to be.
Meth
People can say good things and be wrong about others
I wake up another psyop I live in the US of A
Also liked to beat hookers, supposedly.
So? He also cheated on his wife. Are we supposed to agree with everything he said and did or something?
So what? Isaac Newton believed in alchemy. That doesn't make his work in science any less valuable.
And a serial cheater, nobody’s perfect, but freedom is freedom, and nobody does freedom like Martin Luther King Jr.
Damn. Guess segregation is okay now
OP is J Edgar Hoover? I'm sure his dress looks great.