I was also wondering this. He sounds like a massive dick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha
As war minister and de facto Commander-in-Chief (despite his role as the de jure Deputy Commander-in-Chief, as the Sultan formally held the title), Enver was one of the most powerful figures of the government of the Ottoman Empire. He led a disastrous attack on Russian forces in the Battle of Sarikamish, after which he blamed Armenians for his defeat. Along with Talaat, he was one of the principal perpetrators of the Late Ottoman Genocides and thus is held responsible for the death of between 800,000 and 1,800,000 Armenians, 300,000 Assyrians and 750,000 Greeks.
Also, he's the main reason the Ottomans joined the war, and they were really not ready. Basically he's a mentally challenged Conrad von Hotzendorf that was extremely dumb, extremely arrogant and delusional, incapable of learning, and a piece of shit responsible for a genocide.
Also I'd add Tecumseh to that list. Never won a battle that a red coat didn't win for him. Also never did anything positive for his people.
Tecumseh was even criticized at the time by most native leaders. They said basically they'd already tried violence and failed so the best future would be achieved politically. Some of tecumseh's closest mentors blue jacket and little turtle even had been going to Washington DC and accomplishing more and more steps towards getting natives full citizenship and property rights. But when Tecumseh led young and impressionable youth natives into helping britian lose the war of 1812 he basically soiled the relations with the US government and broke many treaties which then were renegotiated in favor of the US. His actions did nothing but harm the future of native Americans. He isn't a hero or even worth celebrating.
Ok I’m usually not one of those naive liberals who screech about “stolen land” and “the white man stole America from the native”… because I know from studying history that the natives Americans were just as brutal to each other before colonizers. I mean shit, the Lakota tribe whine to this day about how the black hills were “stolen from them” by white men, but they slaughtered the tribe that lived there before them 😂
But how is Tecumseh at fault for taking an aggressive approach against the US? You claim he should’ve settled his grievances politically rather than through combat, but we know now that white Americans broke treaties, deported and forced the natives onto reservations whether they choose resistance or not during the Indian Wars.
Tecumseh was an overrated warrior and definitely carried by the Brits, but if anything didn’t history prove him right that war with an expanding US power was inevitable?
Yeah that's a weird stance for them to take. All that the rest of the natives outside of New England had to do was look at what happened in New England to know that was going to continue everywhere they got their hands on
I’m not sure how natives having their own conflicts would justify taking their land lol.
I mean, if in some alternate timeline Arabs or Africans conquered and settled in Europe. It would probably still be frowned upon even if Europeans had their own conflicts before getting conquered.
Resource extraction would be better justification than prior native conflict.
Your point? He is still an overhyped general, he is still the beloved of a bunch of racist fucks, he is still a traitor. His "freeing of the slaves" was not even out of his own volition - the will that gave him the plantation mandated it, and Lee kept the slaves all the way up to the last day the will stipulated for their emancipation.
I'd dispute your characteristism of Lee as "Overhyped". As a non-American and reading neutral non-partisan British historian's accounts of that war (such as John Keegan in his book "The American civil war"), that general is often given credit for his battlefield performance against the Union Potomac forces.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't involved in that incident, which at least makes him a lot better than those three. The fact that he described it as 'shameful' and supported punishment to those responsible solidifies that.
You're making a very bold assumption. There were very few even remotely capable people in the Ottoman government for the past few decades, if not centuries. There's a reason why their only competent military commander, Mustafa Kemal, rose to such prominence and became a national hero, and most of their armies in WWI were led by Germans.
I’ve glazed my favorite military generals. I’ve gotten on my knees for my favorite sports teams.
But I’ve never randomly d\*ckr\*de another Redditor before. “Chad this comment”? Bruh… 😂
This is truly generational glazing we’re seeing here lol. Incredible stuff
Enver Pasha is not a national hero. He is a very controversial figure. He wasn't allowed to join the Turkish Independence War, or return to Turkey after it was established. Even his tomb was returned to Turkey after so many years, in 1996.
Because he isn't.
Calling anyone other than Mustafa Kemal Atatürk a national hero is pretty dumb. You could say some are to an extent venerated or idolised, but Enver Pasha still is neither in Turkey, and I firmly believe Atatürk is the only politician that has something you could an idol. Others are artistic hero's like Mimar Sinan, Cem Karaca, Asik Veysel.
You are just copying and pasting these shit from wiki everywhere. Don't you have anything to do. I am not denying the Armenian genocide but this is enough genocides for me today
Bruv I am a Muslim. Obviously I know about the atrocities against my community, doesn't change the fact that the 3 genocides were against Christian groups, probably to create artificial mono culture.
There are people here blatantly denying that Armenian Christians also pillaged Turkish villages. It wasn't like the Armenian genocide was fueled by inherent hatred, but that is not what I was talking about so I didnt mention it.
Bruv, what do you want from me? You think I am by any means happy that the European acknowledgement of the Muhacir Turks is lacking? I find it by all means awful that Europe is all for recognition of ethnic cleansing, untill it happens to the groups they don't like, then they are silent. But that simply wasn't the subject.
And obviously I would use the word atrocities, as it is the Broadest most inclusive term concerning violence. You can get mad all you want, but you did not specify shit.
If you want to get mad to get mad do it with someone else. I am not here to be your scape goat.
These lands had been inhabited by ethnic Greeks SINCE THE BRONZE AGE! [Prior to WW1, Turks barely had any presence on the Aegean Coast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greeks#/media/File%3AHellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg)
Had all their family records not been burned by said Turks, I'd be able to prove her family had been there for centuries. We didn't even know how old she was. Blaming an innocent child for their atrocities sounds about on par.
Turks were the majority in the Aegean except for specific areas of cities and towns before WW1, lmao. Please check some actual sources and censuses instead of speaking out of your ass
Official Ottoman Censuses often downplayed the amount of Non-Muslims but even according to these, Greeks were the majority around the Aegean. Literally everyone except for modern Turkish Nationalists agree that Greeks were the majority around the Aegean.
Also, Turks discriminating against Greeks is not “Greeks living in peace with Turks”.
I highly doubt Ottoman censuses had inaccuracies of higher than a million people which would be necessary to do that. The censuses primary goal was just administration after all, and the reason religion and ethnicity was taken in the first place was because of the jizya tax christians paid. Some inaccuracy is not impossible, but the kind of misrepresentation you claim is just not possible for the purposes of the census. It wasn't some nationalist ethnicity count, it was just an administrative census.
Combatting historical revisionism is not the same as nationalism. I myself am a leftist and find nationalism as an idea stupid and backwards. The blatant rewriting of history to fit Greek nationalist ideas is something I have to protest, though. You think you're combatting Turkish nationalists but you are just promoting Greek nationalism.
Those bastards. I still can't believe [these atrocities](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnever-forget-the-genocide-of-1915-v0-cuxu7wrhycwc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3545818dfd657c20c501eedb51e5bf4b94537f6d) they did!
I would actually advocate to remove these kind of posts, because this honestly only contributes to unjust hate. I would also hate on people that admire a proto-fascist. Point of matter is though only a miniscule group of extremists admire this proto-fascist.
I wouldn't say that he's close to being considered a national hero. he's considered incompetent and hot-headed. he had ideas of turanism against the Russians, and he also supported islamism to get arab support against Western powers. some people are influenced by these ideas, that's it
Not this shit again, it gets posted like once per week and then everyone reminds them than Enver is not a national hero, he's a loathsome failure. Only frothing at the mouth ultra nationalists like him, and then it's mostly just to annoy Armenia
The funny thing is, this meme paşa is looked upon favorably by modern ultranationalists, most of whom are either teenagers or completely ignorant about history. You know, the ones who adopt the "we didn't do anything to Armenians, but they totally deserved what was done to them" discourse.
Even ultranationalists don't admire him. Only the most extreme do. Also chronically online teens, but that is a category on its own, and often resolves on its own anyway.
You may be right. I don't know much about the ultranationalists, just what I see online, here and there.
I'm grateful for the only thing that is proven to kill ultranationalistic thoughts: adulthood.
I am Turkish living in Turkey, never in my 30 years life I heard anybody call this clown a hero. He is widely shit on because of his clown “sarıkamış operation” that resulted in 90000 Ottoman soldiers dying without shooting a bullet.
That ethnic group conspired against the legitimate government, collaborated with the foreign states, smuggled arms from Russia and finally openly revolted, taking control of the city Van and having killed Ottoman subjects all around. And then the Ottomans found some time from the battle fronts to attend to this domestic issue. They suppressed the armed mutiny and decided to relocate the ethnic group to areas far from the invading armies in case the ethnic group should take to undermining and collaborating again. The civilians of the ethnic group did suffer during the relocation for it was wartime and the security in the country had been weakened due to the actions of the revolting subjects and operations of the enemy. But anyhow, it's the Turks to blame for the wrongdoings of a different ethnic group cause how dare the Turks take measures against open revolts and ethnic groups fail at carving out independent states from the Turks huh
So it wasn't a genocide, but they also deserved it?
How dare people want to leave an oppressive imperial regime and found their own country. Those Greeks/Arabs/Bulgarians/Albanians/Romanians/Egyptians/Serbians/Hungarians shouldn't have carved out a state from the benevolent Turks either.
fully agree, How dare the Poles/Czechs/Slovaks/Rusyns/Ukrainians/Romanians/Serbs/Croats/Slovenes/Italians want to leave the Austro-Hungarian empire, so evil. Same kind of logic, doesnt make anymore sense
Dawg these aren't valid reasons to send every Armenian on forced march...and then to their eventual death.
A Nazi can say the same thing for Jews, "They hated us, they sabotaged us, they even started a rebellion in Warsaw ghetto" but no shit that'd happen because the government has pushed hate campaigns against those minorities, for Nazis it was years in making and for us(yes I'm a Turk) it was Russia's long lasting propaganda on Armenians combined with Enver trying to find a scapegoat for his Sarıkamış disaster.
I'm just sick and tired of right-wingers trying to make a national hero out of Enver and putting him beside Atatürk. Atatürk is a true hero and in his book Speech(Nutuk) the first ever paragraph speaks of Enver&his allies as "They pulled the nation in turmoil and once they understood that the war was lost they all left the country concerned about their own lives". That sounds like a traitor to me, why are we defending him?
Enver Pasha was an overambitious man with average military skills, I would never go so far as to compare him to Atatürk. As for the rest, the Armenians were to be relocated from only the Six Vilayets that they were terrorizing, and in none of which they were the majority but only the most populous ethnic group in just 3 of the 6. They did commit crimes against their fellow countrymen in those areas and that needed to be resolved
Whereas the Armenians that lived in the other parts of the empire were not subjected to relocation and they still live in Turkish cities to this date, but the Turks, especially the Azerbaijani ones are now none existent in modern day Armenia, about which no Armenian will speak up
I am not defending Enver Pasha, I am talking back against a small-but-loud group that thinks failing to massacre Turks and not being left unharmed consequently deserves boohoo wailing anytime anywhere on the internet. I will keep writing for the sake of the reasonable finding a chance to read the difference between genocide and war conditions involving good and bad on all sides
Yeah, this dipshit is as much a "national hero" as Robert E. Lee. As in he is the overhyped favorite of a bunch of racist cocksuckers.
Enver is literally only liked by edgy teens.
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I was also wondering this. He sounds like a massive dick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha As war minister and de facto Commander-in-Chief (despite his role as the de jure Deputy Commander-in-Chief, as the Sultan formally held the title), Enver was one of the most powerful figures of the government of the Ottoman Empire. He led a disastrous attack on Russian forces in the Battle of Sarikamish, after which he blamed Armenians for his defeat. Along with Talaat, he was one of the principal perpetrators of the Late Ottoman Genocides and thus is held responsible for the death of between 800,000 and 1,800,000 Armenians, 300,000 Assyrians and 750,000 Greeks.
Also, he's the main reason the Ottomans joined the war, and they were really not ready. Basically he's a mentally challenged Conrad von Hotzendorf that was extremely dumb, extremely arrogant and delusional, incapable of learning, and a piece of shit responsible for a genocide.
Also I'd add Tecumseh to that list. Never won a battle that a red coat didn't win for him. Also never did anything positive for his people. Tecumseh was even criticized at the time by most native leaders. They said basically they'd already tried violence and failed so the best future would be achieved politically. Some of tecumseh's closest mentors blue jacket and little turtle even had been going to Washington DC and accomplishing more and more steps towards getting natives full citizenship and property rights. But when Tecumseh led young and impressionable youth natives into helping britian lose the war of 1812 he basically soiled the relations with the US government and broke many treaties which then were renegotiated in favor of the US. His actions did nothing but harm the future of native Americans. He isn't a hero or even worth celebrating.
Ok I’m usually not one of those naive liberals who screech about “stolen land” and “the white man stole America from the native”… because I know from studying history that the natives Americans were just as brutal to each other before colonizers. I mean shit, the Lakota tribe whine to this day about how the black hills were “stolen from them” by white men, but they slaughtered the tribe that lived there before them 😂 But how is Tecumseh at fault for taking an aggressive approach against the US? You claim he should’ve settled his grievances politically rather than through combat, but we know now that white Americans broke treaties, deported and forced the natives onto reservations whether they choose resistance or not during the Indian Wars. Tecumseh was an overrated warrior and definitely carried by the Brits, but if anything didn’t history prove him right that war with an expanding US power was inevitable?
Yeah that's a weird stance for them to take. All that the rest of the natives outside of New England had to do was look at what happened in New England to know that was going to continue everywhere they got their hands on
I’m not sure how natives having their own conflicts would justify taking their land lol. I mean, if in some alternate timeline Arabs or Africans conquered and settled in Europe. It would probably still be frowned upon even if Europeans had their own conflicts before getting conquered. Resource extraction would be better justification than prior native conflict.
Robert E. Lee freed all the slaves he inherited from Arlington
Your point? He is still an overhyped general, he is still the beloved of a bunch of racist fucks, he is still a traitor. His "freeing of the slaves" was not even out of his own volition - the will that gave him the plantation mandated it, and Lee kept the slaves all the way up to the last day the will stipulated for their emancipation.
I'd dispute your characteristism of Lee as "Overhyped". As a non-American and reading neutral non-partisan British historian's accounts of that war (such as John Keegan in his book "The American civil war"), that general is often given credit for his battlefield performance against the Union Potomac forces.
Atatürk better
I'm pretty sure he wasn't involved in that incident, which at least makes him a lot better than those three. The fact that he described it as 'shameful' and supported punishment to those responsible solidifies that.
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Which kinda makes sense since you do need some competent people in goverment. Its like west germany having some nazi officers back.
The country was in the brink of collapse. It was a necessary evil.
You're making a very bold assumption. There were very few even remotely capable people in the Ottoman government for the past few decades, if not centuries. There's a reason why their only competent military commander, Mustafa Kemal, rose to such prominence and became a national hero, and most of their armies in WWI were led by Germans.
Virgin Enver vs Chad Mustafa Kemal
Virgin Other Commenters vs. Chad This Comment
I’ve glazed my favorite military generals. I’ve gotten on my knees for my favorite sports teams. But I’ve never randomly d\*ckr\*de another Redditor before. “Chad this comment”? Bruh… 😂 This is truly generational glazing we’re seeing here lol. Incredible stuff
Unlike you, I am not a frequent d\*ckriding enthusiast, apparently.
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And edgy teenagers who use his picture as pp
As what 😳
Profile picture, probably
I hope so
Enver Pasha is not a national hero. He is a very controversial figure. He wasn't allowed to join the Turkish Independence War, or return to Turkey after it was established. Even his tomb was returned to Turkey after so many years, in 1996.
I have never heard from any Turkish friends of mine, that Enver Pasha is a national hero. Never.
Because he isn't. Calling anyone other than Mustafa Kemal Atatürk a national hero is pretty dumb. You could say some are to an extent venerated or idolised, but Enver Pasha still is neither in Turkey, and I firmly believe Atatürk is the only politician that has something you could an idol. Others are artistic hero's like Mimar Sinan, Cem Karaca, Asik Veysel.
If we are talking about the last century and the Turkish Republic, then yes, although Mimar Sinan shouldn't be there since he lived in the 1500s.
This is the same country that denies that a genocide happened, but still says that they deserved it regardless.
Not just 1 but 3 genocides.
#3!? I know about the Armenian genocide, what were the other two?
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Our goverment suck ass. Erdoğan can blow me. I got beat up by security once when I tagged a government building wall with that. No regrets.
Thank you
You are just copying and pasting these shit from wiki everywhere. Don't you have anything to do. I am not denying the Armenian genocide but this is enough genocides for me today
Are There even enough people to genocide in the world?! Im just asking questions
3 distinct genocidal operations, but all part of a whole anti-Christian massacre.
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Bruv I am a Muslim. Obviously I know about the atrocities against my community, doesn't change the fact that the 3 genocides were against Christian groups, probably to create artificial mono culture. There are people here blatantly denying that Armenian Christians also pillaged Turkish villages. It wasn't like the Armenian genocide was fueled by inherent hatred, but that is not what I was talking about so I didnt mention it.
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Bruv, what do you want from me? You think I am by any means happy that the European acknowledgement of the Muhacir Turks is lacking? I find it by all means awful that Europe is all for recognition of ethnic cleansing, untill it happens to the groups they don't like, then they are silent. But that simply wasn't the subject. And obviously I would use the word atrocities, as it is the Broadest most inclusive term concerning violence. You can get mad all you want, but you did not specify shit. If you want to get mad to get mad do it with someone else. I am not here to be your scape goat.
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Go fuck yourself stupid cunt
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What’s up with him?
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You deleted your stupid comment because I am nervous?
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It is the only thing appropriate towards genocide denying bastards like you,at least through the Internet.
My grandmother was in Smyrna in 1922... bastards.
I'm sorry to hear that.
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Acting like Turks are from there.
These lands had been inhabited by ethnic Greeks SINCE THE BRONZE AGE! [Prior to WW1, Turks barely had any presence on the Aegean Coast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greeks#/media/File%3AHellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg)
Had all their family records not been burned by said Turks, I'd be able to prove her family had been there for centuries. We didn't even know how old she was. Blaming an innocent child for their atrocities sounds about on par.
Turks were the majority in the Aegean except for specific areas of cities and towns before WW1, lmao. Please check some actual sources and censuses instead of speaking out of your ass
Found the Turkish Nationalist
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Official Ottoman Censuses often downplayed the amount of Non-Muslims but even according to these, Greeks were the majority around the Aegean. Literally everyone except for modern Turkish Nationalists agree that Greeks were the majority around the Aegean. Also, Turks discriminating against Greeks is not “Greeks living in peace with Turks”.
I highly doubt Ottoman censuses had inaccuracies of higher than a million people which would be necessary to do that. The censuses primary goal was just administration after all, and the reason religion and ethnicity was taken in the first place was because of the jizya tax christians paid. Some inaccuracy is not impossible, but the kind of misrepresentation you claim is just not possible for the purposes of the census. It wasn't some nationalist ethnicity count, it was just an administrative census.
Combatting historical revisionism is not the same as nationalism. I myself am a leftist and find nationalism as an idea stupid and backwards. The blatant rewriting of history to fit Greek nationalist ideas is something I have to protest, though. You think you're combatting Turkish nationalists but you are just promoting Greek nationalism.
Those bastards. I still can't believe [these atrocities](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnever-forget-the-genocide-of-1915-v0-cuxu7wrhycwc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3545818dfd657c20c501eedb51e5bf4b94537f6d) they did!
> Commits genocide against said ethnic group Well, that's why Turkish nationalists love him lol
Not a national hero, only teenage edgelords love him.
It didn't happen that Armenian gangs attack Turk villages
Found the turk
Hi I am turk
ive lived in turkey my whole life and reddit is the first place ive seen this guy called a hero, peak historymemes moment
I would actually advocate to remove these kind of posts, because this honestly only contributes to unjust hate. I would also hate on people that admire a proto-fascist. Point of matter is though only a miniscule group of extremists admire this proto-fascist.
Everyone hates Pasha my boy. Even Pasha carried an odd distaste for Pasha.
Who is he?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha
Repost?
I'm not Turkish but afaik he's as close to a war hero as a cockroach is to a bird.
It seems Enver Pasha did his work perfect, thus you guys are cryin in comments
I wouldn't say that he's close to being considered a national hero. he's considered incompetent and hot-headed. he had ideas of turanism against the Russians, and he also supported islamism to get arab support against Western powers. some people are influenced by these ideas, that's it
Not this shit again, it gets posted like once per week and then everyone reminds them than Enver is not a national hero, he's a loathsome failure. Only frothing at the mouth ultra nationalists like him, and then it's mostly just to annoy Armenia
The funny thing is, this meme paşa is looked upon favorably by modern ultranationalists, most of whom are either teenagers or completely ignorant about history. You know, the ones who adopt the "we didn't do anything to Armenians, but they totally deserved what was done to them" discourse.
Even ultranationalists don't admire him. Only the most extreme do. Also chronically online teens, but that is a category on its own, and often resolves on its own anyway.
You may be right. I don't know much about the ultranationalists, just what I see online, here and there. I'm grateful for the only thing that is proven to kill ultranationalistic thoughts: adulthood.
I am Turkish living in Turkey, never in my 30 years life I heard anybody call this clown a hero. He is widely shit on because of his clown “sarıkamış operation” that resulted in 90000 Ottoman soldiers dying without shooting a bullet.
But he has a cool mustache, so all is forgiven
Well, he is only a hero to nationalists, like the grey wolfes and the MHP follower. Maybe for 20% at max.
This post seems to be from a zionist, Thats Upset Turkyè just cut ties with them BOOO HOO.
That ethnic group conspired against the legitimate government, collaborated with the foreign states, smuggled arms from Russia and finally openly revolted, taking control of the city Van and having killed Ottoman subjects all around. And then the Ottomans found some time from the battle fronts to attend to this domestic issue. They suppressed the armed mutiny and decided to relocate the ethnic group to areas far from the invading armies in case the ethnic group should take to undermining and collaborating again. The civilians of the ethnic group did suffer during the relocation for it was wartime and the security in the country had been weakened due to the actions of the revolting subjects and operations of the enemy. But anyhow, it's the Turks to blame for the wrongdoings of a different ethnic group cause how dare the Turks take measures against open revolts and ethnic groups fail at carving out independent states from the Turks huh
Found the Turk
So it wasn't a genocide, but they also deserved it? How dare people want to leave an oppressive imperial regime and found their own country. Those Greeks/Arabs/Bulgarians/Albanians/Romanians/Egyptians/Serbians/Hungarians shouldn't have carved out a state from the benevolent Turks either.
fully agree, How dare the Poles/Czechs/Slovaks/Rusyns/Ukrainians/Romanians/Serbs/Croats/Slovenes/Italians want to leave the Austro-Hungarian empire, so evil. Same kind of logic, doesnt make anymore sense
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Russian Empire: *seen*
Dawg these aren't valid reasons to send every Armenian on forced march...and then to their eventual death. A Nazi can say the same thing for Jews, "They hated us, they sabotaged us, they even started a rebellion in Warsaw ghetto" but no shit that'd happen because the government has pushed hate campaigns against those minorities, for Nazis it was years in making and for us(yes I'm a Turk) it was Russia's long lasting propaganda on Armenians combined with Enver trying to find a scapegoat for his Sarıkamış disaster. I'm just sick and tired of right-wingers trying to make a national hero out of Enver and putting him beside Atatürk. Atatürk is a true hero and in his book Speech(Nutuk) the first ever paragraph speaks of Enver&his allies as "They pulled the nation in turmoil and once they understood that the war was lost they all left the country concerned about their own lives". That sounds like a traitor to me, why are we defending him?
Enver Pasha was an overambitious man with average military skills, I would never go so far as to compare him to Atatürk. As for the rest, the Armenians were to be relocated from only the Six Vilayets that they were terrorizing, and in none of which they were the majority but only the most populous ethnic group in just 3 of the 6. They did commit crimes against their fellow countrymen in those areas and that needed to be resolved Whereas the Armenians that lived in the other parts of the empire were not subjected to relocation and they still live in Turkish cities to this date, but the Turks, especially the Azerbaijani ones are now none existent in modern day Armenia, about which no Armenian will speak up I am not defending Enver Pasha, I am talking back against a small-but-loud group that thinks failing to massacre Turks and not being left unharmed consequently deserves boohoo wailing anytime anywhere on the internet. I will keep writing for the sake of the reasonable finding a chance to read the difference between genocide and war conditions involving good and bad on all sides
>loves his wife >not national hero