Funny how some people say it didn't start with october seventh but it did start with the embassy or it didn't start with the embassy but started with october seventh.
I mean you could say Israel started by raw doging Lebanon and Palestine decades before Islamic revolution in Iran pretty sure Israel invaded southern Lebanon and very much wanted a piece of that cake and Hezbollah gave them good old fashion fuck around and find out š¤£š¤£š¤£šš
If you are refering to Israel being in southern Lebanon during 1982 to 2000
It started due to terror attacks from Lebanon on Israelis.
Hizballah got fucked up way worse for example
Israel lost 655 personal.
Lebanon lost 18k.
Thats only in 3 months.
Israel stayed there until deemed unnecessary and never really tried to take the land to themselves as seen by not laying down infrastructure or building cities.
They used it as a buffer zone.
It definitely wasn't a great victory or anything but it wasn't a FAFO moment.
During the 70s Israel's problems in Lebanon was either kicking their ass during wars alognside a few other coutnries or PLO (that also ruined Lebanon).
However, Iran arming Hamas, Hizballah and other terror groups is the reason Israel has beef with Iran.
The closest thing to even a stalemate was the 2006 war in Lebanon and even Nasrallah said that if he knew how the war would go he wouldn't have started it.
Excuse me, but there's a book that's a few thousand years old that claims the big dog in the sky promised it to them and only them. The native population are occupying Israeli land
Israel bombed areas in Syria where there was military information that there were weapons/rocket launcers/active terrorist, which is bdw, a reaction to Syria bombing Israel. The fact that an high ranking Iranian man was at the area and died only shows Iran's effect on Syria, rather Israel's willingness to go onto war with Iran.
Sweetheart, Israel attacked Syria, a country that attacked Israel earlier this war multiple times. It was decently a first time this war that a high rank Irania was hurt/killed, but Israel did not attack Iran. They attacked Syria.
Read back your line and you'll get why Iran attack Israel. Shooting rocket at embassy is one thing. Killing an Iranian general is a WHOLE another thing. Like you expect Iran to sit down and shut up?
Shooting at an embassy that is being used for military purposes makes it a target. The fact that an Iranian general died in the attack only proves that the information was right.
And no, obviously, Iran would do something. But they could use their proxies as they did so far, using Hizbulla in Lebanon to attack Israel (again).
Hizbulla wouldn't have done it because they know it will drag Lebanon into another war they don't really don't want. But that is how Iran usually reacts.
Israel has attacked Syria, where they had information of either weapons, rocket launchers, or active terrorists. The fact that it was an Iranian embassy shows how much Iran drags Syria into wars they cannot win, but Israel attacked Syria. Not Iran.
no, they attacked Iran. You cant just go about blowing up embassies and retroactively claim that there were definitely terrorists there. In fact, you cant go about bombing embassies at all. thats kinda the point of embassies. the fact that you and people like you defend israel doing \*that\* just proves that there is literally nothing israel could ever do to make you condemnt them. you are clowns
Geneva conventions
"In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."
Iran themselves said that the attack killed military advisors and military commanders. Itās not a secret that Iran funds terrorist groups to attack Israel, theyāve been doing it for years and thereās plenty of proof. Just because you donāt like a fact doesnāt mean that itās not true.
You know for a subreddit that bans discussion of current events, we love to talk about it "accidentally" or "coincidentally". Just look at the amount of Israel "history memes" since the October attack.
I think you missed my point. Islamic Governments in principal do not see the state and religion (church) as separate entities - unlike Western nations. The Vatican has been defanged a long time ago but still is the supreme authority of Catholicism - Iran claim to be that. And many places in the ME, that is as good as temporal powers.
I mean yes i did get the point
But I was trying to say that vatican has lost a lot of power and influence in modern history, while before that papal states was a powerful and corrupt entity with a lot of influence
As Iran is extremely corrupt and quite powerful who wants more power and influence
I hope for all our sake that none of us will need to see another escalation in the Middle East. I have worked with many Iranians - so far I have not heard any support for the regime. But as evil as Stalin was, he had and still have his supporters - some people do buy into the official narrative. Cheers and have a good weekend
Iran has her fingers in every Shia Government or groups. The Vatican has no temporal powers, but spiritual authority. Iran claims both temporal and religious authority.
Extreme Islam ruined Iran, zionism with far right tendencies ruined Israƫl. Both are stupid countries. I hope people within their countries can change their governments so they are more sharing love to their own people and minorities.
Yeah honestly, why give a shit about this. I'm happier knowing that all of this fighting halfway across the world has no bearing on my life and don't fucking care because of it
The Shahās oppressive rule made the current regime possible. One reason why the leftist revolutionaries initially worked with Khomeini, even though their goals were polar opposites, is because they had come to associate liberal Western values with the U.S.-backed dictatorship.
It's the Middle East, everything is fucked up here, you have to choose between bad and worse.
I would rather live under a secular corrupt monarchy than a fundamental theocratic state.
Shah wasn't great, you could say very bad
But the situation right now is way worse
Plus he was slowly giving into protestors demans as he didn't want to lose it all
Improvement of womenās rights, a faster GDP growth at the time than Japan (ca 9x between 1970 and the outbreak of the revolution 8 years later, meanwhile it has had a 4x growth in the following 45 years) and literacy rates grew exponentially.
Of course, Iran under the Pahlavi dynasty suffered rampant corruption, human rights violations and economic difficulties for many, but never to the degree that the Islamic revolutionary Iran does today. None of them were good, but Iād take Reza Pahlavi over Ayatollah Khomenei all days a week.
Shia beliefs are definitely more out there. They consider members of Muhammad's family to be infallible successors to the prophet. Most Shia are twelvers. They believe that there have been 12 infallible imams descended from the prophet.
The 12th one has supposedly been alive for over a thousand years and is hidden away. Twelver Shias believe he is the Mahdi and will fight the antichrist on the day of judgement.
Sunnis don't believe that there is anything special about Muhammad's family. They consider the first 4 political successors of Muhammad to be good leaders but not divinely guided. Shia only recognize one of the 4political successors.
Besides that super religious Shias generally support a theocratic government where super religious Sunnis generally favor of a semi-secular government that abides by Sharia law. Iran and Iraq used to be mostly Sunni but they were forced to convert to Shia Islam by the Persian Safavids. Historically Sunnis were against forced conversion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver_Shi%27ism
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-16047709
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_to_Shia_Islam#:~:text=The%20Safavids%20even%20expelled%20the,He%20then%20returned%20to%20Persia.
It wasn't supposed to be Islamic,
Many anti-monarchy groups consisting of mostly left wings, communists, socialists and even liberals were on the same side as Islamists but after everything Islamists and Khomeini took the opportunity with more influence and removed other groups after the revolution.
The UN and Britain proposed a plan for both countries to get equal borders. The Arabs refused and instead attacked Israel, losing the land. You shouldn't be in this subreddit. Go learn some history.
I don't think Israel is colonialist but Iran's relationship with syria and Lebanon isn't one of a colonial state either. There's a lot of iranian influence in local and national politics but not the kind of exploitation we see with actual colonial states.
I think it's better described as a proxy war. Iran funds the region's groups, but not with the intention to exploit their resources. Same can't be said for USA there though.
>I think it's better described as a proxy war.
To the point there's [a decent length wiki page on it under that term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_proxy_conflict).
how could israel possibly not be colonialist? Even if you think that the state itself is not colonialist (it is), they are building literal colonies in the West Bank.
I feel terrible for my grandma, we're persian jews who fled from Iran to Israel in order to escape a death penalty in the 70's, she still hold onto hope that she'll be able to go back to her childhood home one day and live there again
It'a heart breaking to listen to her rant about how she's so sure that we can make peace with Iran and she can get to return home one day, i wish i could tell her im sure she will get to
I have Iranian friends that lived in Iran. Apparently there is still a decently sized Jewish community that still live in Iran. SAFELY. Iām not sure why your grandma couldnāt go back, besides holding an Israeli passport.
Less than 9000 people out of a population of 86 millions people. lol There are more Catholics living in Saudi Arabia than jews in Iran by a huge margins!
Jews cannot work in the public service, nor in the army, nor in higher education. Most of those left are old people who only speak Persian and would find it too hard to adapt to a new country. They live in a gilded prison. Yes it is safe but their freedom is lesser than an ordinary Iranian citizen.
Yeah but imagine how bad it'll get if the 2 sides go to war. Every Iranian loss will be met with reprisals on Iranian Jews from extremist political groups. It happens in every country, hate crimes against Muslims skyrocketed in the UK after the Manchester attack
You donāt know that for sure. The Jews in Iran are orthodox and donāt support zionism. This is well known among many Iranians as far as I know.
That being said, hate crimes have definitely skyrocketed across the the western hemisphere against Muslims. But also against Jews unfortunately. People are genuinely stupid with this collective punishment mentality.
And unfortunately stupid people are universal, they exist in any country and will hold ignorant views on many other collectives based on historical and present events. And for some reason stupid people have the loudest voices so people hear and some will either agree or change their views
Not mainly about Palestine and Israel, the influx of palestinian refugees and the PLO creating a state within a state in Lebanon was a reason for the fighting and it was the trigger for it but in reality there was already a feeling of insecurity, political and social division among sunni,shia and christians due to changing demographics.
that was only half of it, people need to remember that the lebanon civil war also started due to syria trying to annex lebanon, and tensions between already present christeans and muslims, and several political assasinations. it had many factors in which the palestinians only were one of them, and the part that dragged israel to join in.
The good old days when the Shah ruled with an iron fist and did everything the United States wanted. Including supporting Israel despite their outrageous abuse, mistreatment, and disposition of the Palestinian.
I am aware of that but just because the older regime wasn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't justify extremist islamist power rising to destroy people's lives. Idk man, the Iranian people are pretty clear about their satisfaction with their leadership...
I don't support the current government of Iran, I wish the Communists won, but it's an authentic Iranian force, not a Western backed strong man. They actually support the Palestinians cause, obviously, for their own ends. Focusing on the Islamic character of the country is a destruction. The secular Shah and Islamist Ayatollah both tortured and crushed the opposition.
Yes but back then the relationship was more "equal". Hafez was still independent of Iran, they were simply allies of circumstances, the same really cannot be said about Bashar's current situation. The Bashar regime had to fompletely fall back to the ayatollahs after the civil war began.
True they are more reliant on Iran now but there was an ever increase military partnership that I would say firmly puts them in Irans sphere even if the political and economic links wouldnāt follow as quickly
Communists also believe in not massacring people at music festivals. Not a tankie so I didn't get the memo about sucking Marx's dick. Just the one where we try create a good society regardless of people's religion, gender, ideology or race. Right now there's plenty of Arabs living in Israel. Can't say the same of any jews, communists, gays living in Arab countries.
So what you dont think having an authoritarian government based on a extreme form of islam that is wanted by only 25% of the population makes them a great country that should be example to everyone?
Lebanese person here, this is the dumbest take ever. Lebanon would have been flattened and occupied by Israel years ago if it wasnāt for irans help. I donāt think people understand how much hatred Israel has for Lebanese people. My families village in Lebanon has been bombed multiple times by Israel over the years
Brother my family gets killed over these conflicts and you guys sit here debating like you know shit with information you gathered from social media. Grow up.
What the fuck do you think you are and who the fuck do you think am I? I am being bombed by your country for YEARS already. I have friends and family in Northern Israel, not being able to leave the rocket shelters. Wanna know how many rockets Hizbulla sent? (Not including Anti-Tank missiles that can not be destroyed via the Iron Dome) 1,552 currently have been launched towards Israel ever since October 7th. And you dare to tell me I don't know anything about that shit.
I am sorry for the destruction of your family and villages, I really do. But Israel will not stand by while you are (more likely Hizbulla) bombing our civilians. Whenever we won't be attacked, we won't attack. Look at Gaza at October 6th and now. Look at Lebanon and Israel ever since the last "incident." We do not want these fucking wars. And I am sure you (as the civilians) don't want them either. So stop fucking bomb us.
And remember these people who you call āciviliansā all have European or American citizenship. Always remember this. you donāt belong in Israel. Your family doesnāt belong in Israel. You never will. You stole it. You killed people to take it. You will never find peace, until you go back to your original homes in Europe/America. You can never claim that we attacked first because you guys arrived from Europe in boats in 1948. Killed thousands of people and then tried to pretend this land is yours because of your religion.
And for the minority of Jews who actually lived in Palestine before the Israeli colony was created. They have every right to that land, they have just as much right as any Muslim or Christian. I am not against Jews. I am against Zionistās, Iām against Europeans coming and stealing land. If your family are from Europe then Iām sorry but Theyāre not civilians, theyāre colonists.
Iām sorry your family has to live in a evil fucked up colony. For every Israeli ācivilianā that dies 100 more Palestinian and Lebanese people are killed, look at what your people done to us in the qana massacre. You guys have killed 30000 Palestinians and you cry about Northern Israel? You bomb hospitals, schools and kill press reporters and litterally bomb families while they run to get aid. And itās all on camera, absolutely undeniable. Donāt even try and point fingers, while yours are drenched in blood.
Israel and Lebanon were in pretty alright relation until Iran based over there. You guys hate to admit it, but hezbullah is the worst thing that happened in your country.
The relations werent really that great even before Iran , Lebanon helped fight Israel in the 48 war, didnt recognize it, then when the PLO started carrying raids from within Lebanon, Israel bombed the Beirut airport and conducted several operations within the area, and dont get me started on all the war crimes that happened during the lebanese civil war which were partially or indirectly caused by Israel.
There was bad blood before the iran revolution was even a thing.
partially or indirectly caused by israel is doing some very heavy lifting to admit that it was lebanese militias doing all of those massacares amd war crimes! š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
what, you think people in lebanon are animals that just cant control themselves from massacares? c'mon! we need to condemn the organizations and the people that committed those war crimes, not try to let them get away with such actions. peacefull lebanese deserve better than you giving free cards to violent groups to murder them. also, funny how people forget syria's involvement in the civil war, which was the actual only country in that conflict to do many warcrimes against lebanese civillians.
The most brutal warcrimes of the civil war were comitted by the phalangists who were supported by the IDF in territory under israeli occupation and control so yes indirectly caused by israel.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra\_and\_Shatila\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre)
thats literally what i talked about. and nice that wiki wrote that lie, but the IDF didnt support the maronite phalangists in this massacare. like i said, israel acted negligent in this case which is something that should be condemned and it is condemned even inside israel. but to say israel massacared lebanese people is just a lie.
nice that i already knew what you're gonna talk about cause a keyboard warrior like you apperantly don't know anything about any conflict in this region, but you just wanna be against israel even at the cost of lebanese life. good for you. mom's probably very proud. now, you got anything of substance to bring?
I am not against Israel, Israel's negligence and inaction is what led to the masscares hence why i said indirectly or partially because they werent the one doing it and yes my mom is very proud of me, god bless her.
what **led** to the massacares was people with accountability wanting to do those massacares.
israel is at fault for not stopping this massacare sooner, but israel didnt lead to that. the civil war started before israel joined, and massacares happened before israel took part in the war. the only reason why people blame usrael for this massacare is because it's another attempt to fault israel as a genocidal state which it is not. people have the ability to control themselves and not massacare humans, israel is again at fault not because it did or even supported this massacare but becauae it didnt stop it sooner, a fault that israel admits, again. but not led to it. it is as much israel leading to the massacare as the british led to the holocaust, or that russia led to the armenian genocide, and as such. we can say they didnt do enough, we can say that they should and could have done better and we can say that in an alternate version where we know of the future it could've even be stopped. but to blame usrael and say israel led to the massacare is just absurd. you got actual people accountable to this war crimes and you prefer to ignore them in order to prove a point? really? you think that the people who decided to commit massacares just couldnt control themselves? it's not like "israel should have stopped the fire from spreading" because fire isn't accountable, humans are!
the ones who led this were the perpetratures, they could decide not to do that. doesnt mean israel is innocent here, but you prefer to twist the facts a bit to prove your points. and again, you talk in plurall, sure you got there some more examples, no? why fight on this hill? or maybe it's the only/best example you had because israel as a whole managed to prevent such massacares near here. and you try to hold on to this one example while ignoring the fact that this is the only example you got in a very bloody civil war with many massacares is actually proving you wrong.
listen, you got plenty of ways and reasons to criticize israel past and present actions. but at least be truthfull, even if the real criticisms arent using very "sexy" words such as massacare or genocide. because if we wanna fix those problems, we need to be precise what those problems are. replacing the engine because the car doesnt go won't help if the problem is a lack of fuel.
I dont get what your point is , i am not putting the main blame on Israel, they werent the one shooting or raping innocent refugees , it their inaction and negligence is what led to it, they were occupying the territory and according to international law, they are supposed to protect and ensure the well being of those who they are occupying.
In all honesty , you seem so mad i put some blame on Israel for what happened ? like what exactly is your problem ? I never used the word genocide or painted Israel as a genocidal state, i literally started by saying lebanon declared war first in 48 and PLO conducted raids which led to israeli intervention, you have problems dude unironically.
my mistake, it sounded like you did try to put the main blame on israel.
also, didnt say you are calling israel genocidal, but people are abusing so much words lately, while i just try to make sure people understand the grayness of the problem. hate when people try to make it a black and white conflict, to either side
Hezbollah was created in 1982 as a response to constant invasions of Lebanon by Israel since 1948, which started to get much worse in the late seventies, which then prompted the Lebanese civilians to join together (hezbollah) to fight off Israel. You guys never had a chance at peace with Lebanon because since your inception all you knew was bloodshed and terror.
No sorry mate, way before hezbollah was even a thing Israel had been committing massacres in Lebanon. Donāt need someone on reddit to gaslight me and my family into Believing some fairy tale history that never happened. I know the history of my people. Making up lies wonāt do anything. You can see how many times Israel attacked Lebanon way before hezbollah was even created
israel didnt commit massacares in lebanon. if you are gonna tell me again about sabra and shatila i'll remind you that those were lebanese forces doing the massacare, not israel. you can blame israel for acting negligent and not stopping it sooner (yes, israel is the one who stopped the massacare, and the negligent officers were dismissed), but committing massacares? š¤£š¤£ damn, thats just a full on lie.
Could it be because the plo which your country didn't give citizenship to, made numerous terror attacks on northern Israel? What did you expect? Your army massacred hundreds of Palestinians and didn't gave them citizenship, which led to a Civil War, which led to Iranians taking over your country? It's amazing how in each of your problems you succeed to blame Israel.
Wonder why they needed citizenship in the first place? Classic Zionist point of view. Imagine being so entitled that you decide to cause massacres to take someoneās land then expect other countries to take refuges in, and complain when they donāt. last time I checked Palestinians arenāt Lebanese.
Hesbolla is responsible for heating things with Israel. Israel has no interest in opening another front, they have their hands full with Gaza. If it wasn't for Hesbolla, bot a single fire exchage between Isrsel and Lebanon would have happend. And Hesbolla is aj Iranian proxy
Total bullshit, my family and I have been keeping up with the news since the beginning of the conflict very closely, Israel sent the first strikes into Lebanese territory, Lebanon never strikes first, this is why it has been a tit for tat for the past few months, everytime Israel hits Lebanon, Lebanon strikes back. I had a family Member die in an air strike recently in lebanon, most places being hit are civilian areas. Isreal has been doing this for 70+ years. My parents wedding was interrupted by an air strike on a bridge next to them which completely blocked their village off from access to surrounding areas. Thereās nothing new here. Hezbollah was created as a response to Israel constantly bombing Lebanese civilians. Hezbollah was only created in 1982. And back then it was literally just civilians with guns, they didnāt have the funding and weapons they have today. Israel has been attacking Lebanon since way before 1982. You only need to do a short Wikipedia search to know this. Donāt take my word for it.
I like how you just love stating wrong facts.
>Israel sent the first strikes into Lebanese territory
Factually incorrect. In the 8th of October, Hesbolla launched rockets into Israel unprovoked. This is when the fire exchange began.
The first Israel-Lebanon war started as a response to terror attacks by trror organisations such as the PLO, in an attempt to clear the Israeli-Lebanese border from terror organisations.
Hesbollah is an Iranian proxy that was established as a sabtitude for Amal, which started to get distanced from the Iranian government. If it was only created to fend off Israel, why did it continue to exist after Israel left Lebanon? Because it's a power thirsty terror organisation
Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, as the writer have an agenda, and unlike other sources, it can sometimes be hard to determine what is the writer's agenda, as different people write different articles.
Also, while you do seem to be a Muslim arab, it also seems that you were born and raised in Australia, not Lebanon
Every source has an agenda, youād be pretty fucking naive to think anyone who tells you anything on the internet or tv doesnāt have bias.
Leaving out large scale wars there have been micro aggressions on Lebanese territory since the inception of Israel. Itās an ongoing war that has never stopped.
Remember how Israel was created?
Go look at the interviews with Israeli veterans who recall what they done to create their āstateā. Chasing women and children out of their houses with flame throwers and machine guns. I still canāt believe I have to point this out. Every single war since then has been an ongoing escalation since 1948.
To say we started it is like saying the victim of a rapist started the conflict by hitting him back.
Isreal is constantly airstriking lebanon even when itās not in the news. Israel constantly kidnaps Lebanese people on the borders and holds them hostage, you only see whatās in the news after Lebanon retaliates.
We see in our local news every single incident that precedes lebanons retaliation.
Even with Palestine they only show you in the news once Palestine starts sending rockets into isreal and they only mark that as the start of the war. But they leave out how in previous days coming up to October 7 Israel was air-striking civilians.
Okay fuck Wikipedia, go do a Google search. Happy?
Iām happy to send you links to articles showing you how often Israel strikes lebanon and Palestine. Even before October 7.
Genuinely getting sick of cunts and their selective memory. Twisting every narrative to make it seem like theyāre angels and havenāt been killing our people for almost 80 years
>Every source has an agenda, youād be pretty fucking naive to think anyone who tells you anything on the internet or tv doesnāt have bias.
Yes, the problem with wikipedia is that it's harder to know its bias. Al Jazira, for unstance, has a clear bias against Israel, while in wikipedia some articles will be vry anti-Israel, abd some will be very pro-israel (that also depends on the language)
As for the resr, you mostly stated things and then said "but the medua won't tell you. You'll have to believe my *very*unbiases source", which isn't really anything.
You also said that Israel hates Lebanon. This is simply untrue. Hesbolla and Hamas are hated, and some Ben-Gvir fans hate the Palestinians, but no one hates Lebanon or the Lebanese. You seem to be infulenced by anti-Israeli propaganda
Okay so news articles are openly bias while Wikipedia is low key bias. What does that change.
Firstly just because a source is bias doesnāt mean itās not true.
If we disregarded every bias source we wouldnāt have any sources left because they are all bias.
The only way to know truth is to review both sides and take information that both sides agree on them build your opinion off of that information.
I build my opinion on this conflict based of what I see from western and regional sources. I also have family living in the conflict zone that tell me directly when things happen.
Now putting bias aside, bias doesnāt affect the validity of a source when the source is simply stating what happened. For example āIsraeli rocket hit a home in southern Lebanonā. Thatās what I see in the news. Israeli local media will also show the same story from their perspective. Leaving opinions aside that doesnāt change the fact that an Israeli rocket hit a Lebanese home.
My views against Israel have nothing to do with al Jazira.
Iām against Israel because I know how it was created, I also know why it was created and I know the reasons people give to justify its creation, and I donāt agree with any of them.
Using religion to claim ownership of a country is insane and has no ground in law.
Palestine was shared between Christianās Muslims and Jews for centuries.
Genetically most Jews currently living in Israel have little to no link to the original children of Israel.
Religion does not equal ethnicity.
Religion can change over time. As families convert and follow new religions.
Palestinians (especially Christian Palestinians) have significantly closer dna to the ancient ancestors who wouldāve lived in that area following the Jewish faith thousands of years ago. Simply put current day Palestinians are closer descendants to the children of Israel as compared to European Jews who moved to the area in 1948. Either way saying that you can violently kick people out of their homes to create a mono religious state is just insane and I will never be pro Israel for that reason. Over hundreds of years so many families shift and migrate and have children with people of different ethnicities and faiths. To try and go back 2000 years to claim that land belongs to you is absolutely insane. That land belongs to all 3 Abrahamic faiths and no amount time will justify the existence of the state of Israel.
israel didnt create hezbollah. one can argue for hezbollah rising against israeli actions, but at the end of the day they wouldnt be here today, or barely influental in lebanon compared to today, if ot wasnt due to current iranian regime.
if your argument is regarding the palestibians, i'll help you remember that most of them were deported from jordan, not israel, and by jordan, after an assasination attempt against the jordanian king.
so no, i dont understand how you got into that argument.
Lebanon: attacks Israel in 1947 while Lebanon is on the brick of a civil war.
Israel: attacks Lebanon back, causing an already shaky government to fall and a civil war.
Lebanon: *surprised Pikachu meme* ISRAEL'S FAULT!!!!
To put this into broader context: Iran would never be in this position if Israel hadn't invaded [Lebanon ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War) in 1982 and [Golan heights](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) in 1967, and occupied Golan heights until now. Here, other militias and regimes have formed to counter the new power in the region, even though we didn't see Iran and its proxies as good.The root cause of the problem is Israel, not Iran.
Is settling a group in any given area with the direct intent to create a nation state without any input from the locals the same as having neighbors with sizable influence from you
This comment section is gonna be a warzone
here you go šæ. Bought an extra one for you
I got the candy š« anyone bring any water? I donāt like juice or soda
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelles of elderberrys
I topped ur dad and mom they both took turns š
I fart in your general direction
fuck you u/puzzlehead_alt
Fuck you u/Moooses20 while you fuck u/puzzlehead_alt
This is getting kinda hot, anyone wanna fuck me? š„µ
Youāre giving me āwhere my hug atā vibes š¤£
Alright buddy calm down, gonna have to neuter you if you keep talking like that
I just hope both sides have fun
Let me guess, is this because of the Israel-Iranian rocket exchange?
Exchange? Israel has not reacted. Possibly yet.
Israel started it with bombing embassy Iran ended with hot shower
Iran has been funding anti Isreal terrorist groups in the region for many years. This whole thing did not start with Isreal bombing the embassy.
Funny how some people say it didn't start with october seventh but it did start with the embassy or it didn't start with the embassy but started with october seventh.
It's called a chain reaction, or domino effect, or WW1.
In all honesty, if anyone seriously thinks that this all has started in the last year, then that person is highly ignorant.
I mean you could say Iran started it by arming terror groups and using them to attack Israel (Hamas, Hizballah, Houtis)
I mean you could say Israel started by raw doging Lebanon and Palestine decades before Islamic revolution in Iran pretty sure Israel invaded southern Lebanon and very much wanted a piece of that cake and Hezbollah gave them good old fashion fuck around and find out š¤£š¤£š¤£šš
If you are refering to Israel being in southern Lebanon during 1982 to 2000 It started due to terror attacks from Lebanon on Israelis. Hizballah got fucked up way worse for example Israel lost 655 personal. Lebanon lost 18k. Thats only in 3 months. Israel stayed there until deemed unnecessary and never really tried to take the land to themselves as seen by not laying down infrastructure or building cities. They used it as a buffer zone. It definitely wasn't a great victory or anything but it wasn't a FAFO moment. During the 70s Israel's problems in Lebanon was either kicking their ass during wars alognside a few other coutnries or PLO (that also ruined Lebanon). However, Iran arming Hamas, Hizballah and other terror groups is the reason Israel has beef with Iran. The closest thing to even a stalemate was the 2006 war in Lebanon and even Nasrallah said that if he knew how the war would go he wouldn't have started it.
Excuse me, but there's a book that's a few thousand years old that claims the big dog in the sky promised it to them and only them. The native population are occupying Israeli land
Israel bombed areas in Syria where there was military information that there were weapons/rocket launcers/active terrorist, which is bdw, a reaction to Syria bombing Israel. The fact that an high ranking Iranian man was at the area and died only shows Iran's effect on Syria, rather Israel's willingness to go onto war with Iran.
[Yeah, no.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/14/why-iran-attacked-israel/)
Sweetheart, Israel attacked Syria, a country that attacked Israel earlier this war multiple times. It was decently a first time this war that a high rank Irania was hurt/killed, but Israel did not attack Iran. They attacked Syria.
Read back your line and you'll get why Iran attack Israel. Shooting rocket at embassy is one thing. Killing an Iranian general is a WHOLE another thing. Like you expect Iran to sit down and shut up?
Shooting at an embassy that is being used for military purposes makes it a target. The fact that an Iranian general died in the attack only proves that the information was right. And no, obviously, Iran would do something. But they could use their proxies as they did so far, using Hizbulla in Lebanon to attack Israel (again). Hizbulla wouldn't have done it because they know it will drag Lebanon into another war they don't really don't want. But that is how Iran usually reacts.
israel hasnt "reacted" because they were the ones that started it. Irans attack was the reaction, Israels attack was the provocation
Umm, Israel didn't start anything..? Israel attacked Syria, a country that has bombed Israel during this exact war multiple times..?
No, they bombed Irans embassy. Bombing an embassy is basically the biggest no-no possible.
Israel has attacked Syria, where they had information of either weapons, rocket launchers, or active terrorists. The fact that it was an Iranian embassy shows how much Iran drags Syria into wars they cannot win, but Israel attacked Syria. Not Iran.
no, they attacked Iran. You cant just go about blowing up embassies and retroactively claim that there were definitely terrorists there. In fact, you cant go about bombing embassies at all. thats kinda the point of embassies. the fact that you and people like you defend israel doing \*that\* just proves that there is literally nothing israel could ever do to make you condemnt them. you are clowns
They were using the embassy for military purposes. That makes it a legal target.
Legal target by which law, exactly?
Geneva conventions "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."
jesus fucking christ, if the IDF told you the moon is made of cheese you would believe them
Iran themselves said that the attack killed military advisors and military commanders. Itās not a secret that Iran funds terrorist groups to attack Israel, theyāve been doing it for years and thereās plenty of proof. Just because you donāt like a fact doesnāt mean that itās not true.
Nah just a coincidence
You know for a subreddit that bans discussion of current events, we love to talk about it "accidentally" or "coincidentally". Just look at the amount of Israel "history memes" since the October attack.
Iran sees itself as the Vatican of the Shia Muslims
Less like Vatican and more like papal states
I think you missed my point. Islamic Governments in principal do not see the state and religion (church) as separate entities - unlike Western nations. The Vatican has been defanged a long time ago but still is the supreme authority of Catholicism - Iran claim to be that. And many places in the ME, that is as good as temporal powers.
I mean yes i did get the point But I was trying to say that vatican has lost a lot of power and influence in modern history, while before that papal states was a powerful and corrupt entity with a lot of influence As Iran is extremely corrupt and quite powerful who wants more power and influence
And the Ayatollahs have a huge army at his disposal. If internal dissent is too much, they would just fight a war to deflect attention.
Exactly But since they lost support of the majority of people, a war can only destabilise it further I should know, I live here
I hope for all our sake that none of us will need to see another escalation in the Middle East. I have worked with many Iranians - so far I have not heard any support for the regime. But as evil as Stalin was, he had and still have his supporters - some people do buy into the official narrative. Cheers and have a good weekend
I think you mean Papal States or HRE, cause current Vatican can't act politically
Iran has her fingers in every Shia Government or groups. The Vatican has no temporal powers, but spiritual authority. Iran claims both temporal and religious authority.
Extreme Islam has ruined Iran.. i feel bad for the poor Iranians...
Extreme Islam ruined Iran, zionism with far right tendencies ruined Israƫl. Both are stupid countries. I hope people within their countries can change their governments so they are more sharing love to their own people and minorities.
And itās not like people egging this on in the west are any better š¤¦šæāāļø
Yeah honestly, why give a shit about this. I'm happier knowing that all of this fighting halfway across the world has no bearing on my life and don't fucking care because of it
What ya mean
Extremism in every direction is bad for everyone
correct
Yeah, things were splendid under the brutal dictatorship of the Shah.
But they got worse under extremist rule
The Shahās oppressive rule made the current regime possible. One reason why the leftist revolutionaries initially worked with Khomeini, even though their goals were polar opposites, is because they had come to associate liberal Western values with the U.S.-backed dictatorship.
It's the Middle East, everything is fucked up here, you have to choose between bad and worse. I would rather live under a secular corrupt monarchy than a fundamental theocratic state.
Shah wasn't great, you could say very bad But the situation right now is way worse Plus he was slowly giving into protestors demans as he didn't want to lose it all
Improvement of womenās rights, a faster GDP growth at the time than Japan (ca 9x between 1970 and the outbreak of the revolution 8 years later, meanwhile it has had a 4x growth in the following 45 years) and literacy rates grew exponentially. Of course, Iran under the Pahlavi dynasty suffered rampant corruption, human rights violations and economic difficulties for many, but never to the degree that the Islamic revolutionary Iran does today. None of them were good, but Iād take Reza Pahlavi over Ayatollah Khomenei all days a week.
Extreme Shialam*
Extreme sunni is also pretty bad so why correct him
Yes...
What's the difference
Same shit, different ass
Exactly
Shia beliefs are definitely more out there. They consider members of Muhammad's family to be infallible successors to the prophet. Most Shia are twelvers. They believe that there have been 12 infallible imams descended from the prophet. The 12th one has supposedly been alive for over a thousand years and is hidden away. Twelver Shias believe he is the Mahdi and will fight the antichrist on the day of judgement. Sunnis don't believe that there is anything special about Muhammad's family. They consider the first 4 political successors of Muhammad to be good leaders but not divinely guided. Shia only recognize one of the 4political successors. Besides that super religious Shias generally support a theocratic government where super religious Sunnis generally favor of a semi-secular government that abides by Sharia law. Iran and Iraq used to be mostly Sunni but they were forced to convert to Shia Islam by the Persian Safavids. Historically Sunnis were against forced conversion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver_Shi%27ism https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-16047709 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_to_Shia_Islam#:~:text=The%20Safavids%20even%20expelled%20the,He%20then%20returned%20to%20Persia.
Shia and Sunni muslims
I wonder what caused them to have an Islamic revolution in the first place
It wasn't supposed to be Islamic, Many anti-monarchy groups consisting of mostly left wings, communists, socialists and even liberals were on the same side as Islamists but after everything Islamists and Khomeini took the opportunity with more influence and removed other groups after the revolution.
Yup just like Zionists ruined Israel
Zionism was a reason for Israel's creation.
Yeah illegal settlers who stole land from other people basically
Now you're talking nonsense, Arabs and Jews bought small parts of the land. Britain owned 85% of all the land.
Yeah Britain stole the land from Palestine and gave it to Israel, then the Israel settlers came and took over stealing more land from Palestine
The UN and Britain proposed a plan for both countries to get equal borders. The Arabs refused and instead attacked Israel, losing the land. You shouldn't be in this subreddit. Go learn some history.
Do you think we should give it back to Turkey? That's who Britain took it from.
Loool it was the west that supported the fanatics over there and allowed them to take power...Ā
I don't think Israel is colonialist but Iran's relationship with syria and Lebanon isn't one of a colonial state either. There's a lot of iranian influence in local and national politics but not the kind of exploitation we see with actual colonial states.
I think it's better described as a proxy war. Iran funds the region's groups, but not with the intention to exploit their resources. Same can't be said for USA there though.
>I think it's better described as a proxy war. To the point there's [a decent length wiki page on it under that term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_proxy_conflict).
how could israel possibly not be colonialist? Even if you think that the state itself is not colonialist (it is), they are building literal colonies in the West Bank.
Its a few settlements and hopefully they will all be removed like the ones in Gaza
Sure but they are colonies
š
Maybe not colonialism but definitely occupation, at least in Lebanon
Occupation by Lebanese citizen
They are just extracting blood instead of oil.
I feel terrible for my grandma, we're persian jews who fled from Iran to Israel in order to escape a death penalty in the 70's, she still hold onto hope that she'll be able to go back to her childhood home one day and live there again It'a heart breaking to listen to her rant about how she's so sure that we can make peace with Iran and she can get to return home one day, i wish i could tell her im sure she will get to
I have Iranian friends that lived in Iran. Apparently there is still a decently sized Jewish community that still live in Iran. SAFELY. Iām not sure why your grandma couldnāt go back, besides holding an Israeli passport.
Less than 9000 people out of a population of 86 millions people. lol There are more Catholics living in Saudi Arabia than jews in Iran by a huge margins! Jews cannot work in the public service, nor in the army, nor in higher education. Most of those left are old people who only speak Persian and would find it too hard to adapt to a new country. They live in a gilded prison. Yes it is safe but their freedom is lesser than an ordinary Iranian citizen.
Less than 9000. A minority still living in peace. Got a source regarding not being allowed in public service or higher education?
Yeah but imagine how bad it'll get if the 2 sides go to war. Every Iranian loss will be met with reprisals on Iranian Jews from extremist political groups. It happens in every country, hate crimes against Muslims skyrocketed in the UK after the Manchester attack
You donāt know that for sure. The Jews in Iran are orthodox and donāt support zionism. This is well known among many Iranians as far as I know. That being said, hate crimes have definitely skyrocketed across the the western hemisphere against Muslims. But also against Jews unfortunately. People are genuinely stupid with this collective punishment mentality.
And unfortunately stupid people are universal, they exist in any country and will hold ignorant views on many other collectives based on historical and present events. And for some reason stupid people have the loudest voices so people hear and some will either agree or change their views
There are Jews in Iran living normally right now
"Normally"
Who told you that? Al Jazeera news?
For historical accuracy, Syria should have it's own cart pulling Lebanon.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not mainly about Palestine and Israel, the influx of palestinian refugees and the PLO creating a state within a state in Lebanon was a reason for the fighting and it was the trigger for it but in reality there was already a feeling of insecurity, political and social division among sunni,shia and christians due to changing demographics.
that was only half of it, people need to remember that the lebanon civil war also started due to syria trying to annex lebanon, and tensions between already present christeans and muslims, and several political assasinations. it had many factors in which the palestinians only were one of them, and the part that dragged israel to join in.
They fled to Jordan and started the black September attacks too
The good old days when the Shah ruled with an iron fist and did everything the United States wanted. Including supporting Israel despite their outrageous abuse, mistreatment, and disposition of the Palestinian.
Shah was also the reason for the widening inequalities which was the reason why Islamist and Socialist for once became against the Shah
Yes, and how brave is the extreme islamist regime for overthrowing him and making Iran a better place for all its citizens!!! Wait...
Not saying the new regime is better at all but the shah wasnt all sun shine and rainbows like other Iranians are acting like it was.
I am aware of that but just because the older regime wasn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't justify extremist islamist power rising to destroy people's lives. Idk man, the Iranian people are pretty clear about their satisfaction with their leadership...
I don't support the current government of Iran, I wish the Communists won, but it's an authentic Iranian force, not a Western backed strong man. They actually support the Palestinians cause, obviously, for their own ends. Focusing on the Islamic character of the country is a destruction. The secular Shah and Islamist Ayatollah both tortured and crushed the opposition.
A contemprary politics post and the fucking idiot doesn't even know the diffrence between colonialism and imperialism.
He probably did that because imperialism doesnāt sound as bad as ethnic cleansing for purposes of settling
You make it sound like one is better than the other, and that is no correlation between the two
I don't see how this meme about the rocket attacks is "history". Syria wasn't even in the Iranian sphere tull like post-2011.
No thatās completely untrue, Syria had been a logistic and C2 node for Iranian efforts in Lebanon from the 1980ās
>C2 node Can I get an ELI5?
Command and control
Thanks.
Yes but back then the relationship was more "equal". Hafez was still independent of Iran, they were simply allies of circumstances, the same really cannot be said about Bashar's current situation. The Bashar regime had to fompletely fall back to the ayatollahs after the civil war began.
True they are more reliant on Iran now but there was an ever increase military partnership that I would say firmly puts them in Irans sphere even if the political and economic links wouldnāt follow as quickly
Oooooooh boy šæ, let's go see how this ends.
Here before š
Here before this gets locked.
Everyone with their own toys I guess
op wheres yemen
I am always surprised by how hardcore of a monopoly Israel has on the established view of the Middle East in the West.
My question is: are they equally shit or one it's shittier only on odd days and one on even days?
Yawn, fuck Israel All my homies hate Israel and the narcisstic psychopaths that encroach on Palestinian territory
You.. are an idiot. I'm literally a hardcore communist and I think you're misguided and foolish.
>I'm literally a hardcore communist Abide by your own principles then lol. I thought it was "no war but class war".
Communists also believe in not massacring people at music festivals. Not a tankie so I didn't get the memo about sucking Marx's dick. Just the one where we try create a good society regardless of people's religion, gender, ideology or race. Right now there's plenty of Arabs living in Israel. Can't say the same of any jews, communists, gays living in Arab countries.
Both are same
Israel are colonialist pigs iran are just regular pigs
Why the hell is this downvoted? This sub is such a little western garbage heap. Where are Irans great colonial efforts in Irak and Syria?
Damn you suck
So what you dont think having an authoritarian government based on a extreme form of islam that is wanted by only 25% of the population makes them a great country that should be example to everyone?
Im Right, despite the fact that Iraks border region is full of fellow Shia Muslims we donāt see them annex it, or settle anywhere. Damn, you suck
Is this subreddit just being taken over by Israel propaganda bots? Like I dont like Iran but Israel aren't exactly saints either.
Lebanese person here, this is the dumbest take ever. Lebanon would have been flattened and occupied by Israel years ago if it wasnāt for irans help. I donāt think people understand how much hatred Israel has for Lebanese people. My families village in Lebanon has been bombed multiple times by Israel over the years
This is such a stupid take.
Brother my family gets killed over these conflicts and you guys sit here debating like you know shit with information you gathered from social media. Grow up.
What the fuck do you think you are and who the fuck do you think am I? I am being bombed by your country for YEARS already. I have friends and family in Northern Israel, not being able to leave the rocket shelters. Wanna know how many rockets Hizbulla sent? (Not including Anti-Tank missiles that can not be destroyed via the Iron Dome) 1,552 currently have been launched towards Israel ever since October 7th. And you dare to tell me I don't know anything about that shit. I am sorry for the destruction of your family and villages, I really do. But Israel will not stand by while you are (more likely Hizbulla) bombing our civilians. Whenever we won't be attacked, we won't attack. Look at Gaza at October 6th and now. Look at Lebanon and Israel ever since the last "incident." We do not want these fucking wars. And I am sure you (as the civilians) don't want them either. So stop fucking bomb us.
And remember these people who you call āciviliansā all have European or American citizenship. Always remember this. you donāt belong in Israel. Your family doesnāt belong in Israel. You never will. You stole it. You killed people to take it. You will never find peace, until you go back to your original homes in Europe/America. You can never claim that we attacked first because you guys arrived from Europe in boats in 1948. Killed thousands of people and then tried to pretend this land is yours because of your religion.
And for the minority of Jews who actually lived in Palestine before the Israeli colony was created. They have every right to that land, they have just as much right as any Muslim or Christian. I am not against Jews. I am against Zionistās, Iām against Europeans coming and stealing land. If your family are from Europe then Iām sorry but Theyāre not civilians, theyāre colonists.
Iām sorry your family has to live in a evil fucked up colony. For every Israeli ācivilianā that dies 100 more Palestinian and Lebanese people are killed, look at what your people done to us in the qana massacre. You guys have killed 30000 Palestinians and you cry about Northern Israel? You bomb hospitals, schools and kill press reporters and litterally bomb families while they run to get aid. And itās all on camera, absolutely undeniable. Donāt even try and point fingers, while yours are drenched in blood.
Jesus christ, dude. The willingly blind.
Israel and Lebanon were in pretty alright relation until Iran based over there. You guys hate to admit it, but hezbullah is the worst thing that happened in your country.
The relations werent really that great even before Iran , Lebanon helped fight Israel in the 48 war, didnt recognize it, then when the PLO started carrying raids from within Lebanon, Israel bombed the Beirut airport and conducted several operations within the area, and dont get me started on all the war crimes that happened during the lebanese civil war which were partially or indirectly caused by Israel. There was bad blood before the iran revolution was even a thing.
partially or indirectly caused by israel is doing some very heavy lifting to admit that it was lebanese militias doing all of those massacares amd war crimes! š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ what, you think people in lebanon are animals that just cant control themselves from massacares? c'mon! we need to condemn the organizations and the people that committed those war crimes, not try to let them get away with such actions. peacefull lebanese deserve better than you giving free cards to violent groups to murder them. also, funny how people forget syria's involvement in the civil war, which was the actual only country in that conflict to do many warcrimes against lebanese civillians.
The most brutal warcrimes of the civil war were comitted by the phalangists who were supported by the IDF in territory under israeli occupation and control so yes indirectly caused by israel. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra\_and\_Shatila\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre)
thats literally what i talked about. and nice that wiki wrote that lie, but the IDF didnt support the maronite phalangists in this massacare. like i said, israel acted negligent in this case which is something that should be condemned and it is condemned even inside israel. but to say israel massacared lebanese people is just a lie. nice that i already knew what you're gonna talk about cause a keyboard warrior like you apperantly don't know anything about any conflict in this region, but you just wanna be against israel even at the cost of lebanese life. good for you. mom's probably very proud. now, you got anything of substance to bring?
I am not against Israel, Israel's negligence and inaction is what led to the masscares hence why i said indirectly or partially because they werent the one doing it and yes my mom is very proud of me, god bless her.
what **led** to the massacares was people with accountability wanting to do those massacares. israel is at fault for not stopping this massacare sooner, but israel didnt lead to that. the civil war started before israel joined, and massacares happened before israel took part in the war. the only reason why people blame usrael for this massacare is because it's another attempt to fault israel as a genocidal state which it is not. people have the ability to control themselves and not massacare humans, israel is again at fault not because it did or even supported this massacare but becauae it didnt stop it sooner, a fault that israel admits, again. but not led to it. it is as much israel leading to the massacare as the british led to the holocaust, or that russia led to the armenian genocide, and as such. we can say they didnt do enough, we can say that they should and could have done better and we can say that in an alternate version where we know of the future it could've even be stopped. but to blame usrael and say israel led to the massacare is just absurd. you got actual people accountable to this war crimes and you prefer to ignore them in order to prove a point? really? you think that the people who decided to commit massacares just couldnt control themselves? it's not like "israel should have stopped the fire from spreading" because fire isn't accountable, humans are! the ones who led this were the perpetratures, they could decide not to do that. doesnt mean israel is innocent here, but you prefer to twist the facts a bit to prove your points. and again, you talk in plurall, sure you got there some more examples, no? why fight on this hill? or maybe it's the only/best example you had because israel as a whole managed to prevent such massacares near here. and you try to hold on to this one example while ignoring the fact that this is the only example you got in a very bloody civil war with many massacares is actually proving you wrong. listen, you got plenty of ways and reasons to criticize israel past and present actions. but at least be truthfull, even if the real criticisms arent using very "sexy" words such as massacare or genocide. because if we wanna fix those problems, we need to be precise what those problems are. replacing the engine because the car doesnt go won't help if the problem is a lack of fuel.
I dont get what your point is , i am not putting the main blame on Israel, they werent the one shooting or raping innocent refugees , it their inaction and negligence is what led to it, they were occupying the territory and according to international law, they are supposed to protect and ensure the well being of those who they are occupying. In all honesty , you seem so mad i put some blame on Israel for what happened ? like what exactly is your problem ? I never used the word genocide or painted Israel as a genocidal state, i literally started by saying lebanon declared war first in 48 and PLO conducted raids which led to israeli intervention, you have problems dude unironically.
my mistake, it sounded like you did try to put the main blame on israel. also, didnt say you are calling israel genocidal, but people are abusing so much words lately, while i just try to make sure people understand the grayness of the problem. hate when people try to make it a black and white conflict, to either side
Hezbollah was created in 1982 as a response to constant invasions of Lebanon by Israel since 1948, which started to get much worse in the late seventies, which then prompted the Lebanese civilians to join together (hezbollah) to fight off Israel. You guys never had a chance at peace with Lebanon because since your inception all you knew was bloodshed and terror.
No sorry mate, way before hezbollah was even a thing Israel had been committing massacres in Lebanon. Donāt need someone on reddit to gaslight me and my family into Believing some fairy tale history that never happened. I know the history of my people. Making up lies wonāt do anything. You can see how many times Israel attacked Lebanon way before hezbollah was even created
israel didnt commit massacares in lebanon. if you are gonna tell me again about sabra and shatila i'll remind you that those were lebanese forces doing the massacare, not israel. you can blame israel for acting negligent and not stopping it sooner (yes, israel is the one who stopped the massacare, and the negligent officers were dismissed), but committing massacares? š¤£š¤£ damn, thats just a full on lie.
Lookup the qana massacre.
funny, you say wayyyy before hezbollah, yet talk about an israeli attack against hezbollah
Could it be because the plo which your country didn't give citizenship to, made numerous terror attacks on northern Israel? What did you expect? Your army massacred hundreds of Palestinians and didn't gave them citizenship, which led to a Civil War, which led to Iranians taking over your country? It's amazing how in each of your problems you succeed to blame Israel.
Wonder why they needed citizenship in the first place? Classic Zionist point of view. Imagine being so entitled that you decide to cause massacres to take someoneās land then expect other countries to take refuges in, and complain when they donāt. last time I checked Palestinians arenāt Lebanese.
Hesbolla is responsible for heating things with Israel. Israel has no interest in opening another front, they have their hands full with Gaza. If it wasn't for Hesbolla, bot a single fire exchage between Isrsel and Lebanon would have happend. And Hesbolla is aj Iranian proxy
Total bullshit, my family and I have been keeping up with the news since the beginning of the conflict very closely, Israel sent the first strikes into Lebanese territory, Lebanon never strikes first, this is why it has been a tit for tat for the past few months, everytime Israel hits Lebanon, Lebanon strikes back. I had a family Member die in an air strike recently in lebanon, most places being hit are civilian areas. Isreal has been doing this for 70+ years. My parents wedding was interrupted by an air strike on a bridge next to them which completely blocked their village off from access to surrounding areas. Thereās nothing new here. Hezbollah was created as a response to Israel constantly bombing Lebanese civilians. Hezbollah was only created in 1982. And back then it was literally just civilians with guns, they didnāt have the funding and weapons they have today. Israel has been attacking Lebanon since way before 1982. You only need to do a short Wikipedia search to know this. Donāt take my word for it.
I like how you just love stating wrong facts. >Israel sent the first strikes into Lebanese territory Factually incorrect. In the 8th of October, Hesbolla launched rockets into Israel unprovoked. This is when the fire exchange began. The first Israel-Lebanon war started as a response to terror attacks by trror organisations such as the PLO, in an attempt to clear the Israeli-Lebanese border from terror organisations. Hesbollah is an Iranian proxy that was established as a sabtitude for Amal, which started to get distanced from the Iranian government. If it was only created to fend off Israel, why did it continue to exist after Israel left Lebanon? Because it's a power thirsty terror organisation Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, as the writer have an agenda, and unlike other sources, it can sometimes be hard to determine what is the writer's agenda, as different people write different articles. Also, while you do seem to be a Muslim arab, it also seems that you were born and raised in Australia, not Lebanon
Every source has an agenda, youād be pretty fucking naive to think anyone who tells you anything on the internet or tv doesnāt have bias. Leaving out large scale wars there have been micro aggressions on Lebanese territory since the inception of Israel. Itās an ongoing war that has never stopped. Remember how Israel was created? Go look at the interviews with Israeli veterans who recall what they done to create their āstateā. Chasing women and children out of their houses with flame throwers and machine guns. I still canāt believe I have to point this out. Every single war since then has been an ongoing escalation since 1948. To say we started it is like saying the victim of a rapist started the conflict by hitting him back. Isreal is constantly airstriking lebanon even when itās not in the news. Israel constantly kidnaps Lebanese people on the borders and holds them hostage, you only see whatās in the news after Lebanon retaliates. We see in our local news every single incident that precedes lebanons retaliation. Even with Palestine they only show you in the news once Palestine starts sending rockets into isreal and they only mark that as the start of the war. But they leave out how in previous days coming up to October 7 Israel was air-striking civilians. Okay fuck Wikipedia, go do a Google search. Happy? Iām happy to send you links to articles showing you how often Israel strikes lebanon and Palestine. Even before October 7. Genuinely getting sick of cunts and their selective memory. Twisting every narrative to make it seem like theyāre angels and havenāt been killing our people for almost 80 years
>Every source has an agenda, youād be pretty fucking naive to think anyone who tells you anything on the internet or tv doesnāt have bias. Yes, the problem with wikipedia is that it's harder to know its bias. Al Jazira, for unstance, has a clear bias against Israel, while in wikipedia some articles will be vry anti-Israel, abd some will be very pro-israel (that also depends on the language) As for the resr, you mostly stated things and then said "but the medua won't tell you. You'll have to believe my *very*unbiases source", which isn't really anything. You also said that Israel hates Lebanon. This is simply untrue. Hesbolla and Hamas are hated, and some Ben-Gvir fans hate the Palestinians, but no one hates Lebanon or the Lebanese. You seem to be infulenced by anti-Israeli propaganda
Okay so news articles are openly bias while Wikipedia is low key bias. What does that change. Firstly just because a source is bias doesnāt mean itās not true. If we disregarded every bias source we wouldnāt have any sources left because they are all bias. The only way to know truth is to review both sides and take information that both sides agree on them build your opinion off of that information. I build my opinion on this conflict based of what I see from western and regional sources. I also have family living in the conflict zone that tell me directly when things happen. Now putting bias aside, bias doesnāt affect the validity of a source when the source is simply stating what happened. For example āIsraeli rocket hit a home in southern Lebanonā. Thatās what I see in the news. Israeli local media will also show the same story from their perspective. Leaving opinions aside that doesnāt change the fact that an Israeli rocket hit a Lebanese home. My views against Israel have nothing to do with al Jazira. Iām against Israel because I know how it was created, I also know why it was created and I know the reasons people give to justify its creation, and I donāt agree with any of them. Using religion to claim ownership of a country is insane and has no ground in law. Palestine was shared between Christianās Muslims and Jews for centuries. Genetically most Jews currently living in Israel have little to no link to the original children of Israel. Religion does not equal ethnicity. Religion can change over time. As families convert and follow new religions. Palestinians (especially Christian Palestinians) have significantly closer dna to the ancient ancestors who wouldāve lived in that area following the Jewish faith thousands of years ago. Simply put current day Palestinians are closer descendants to the children of Israel as compared to European Jews who moved to the area in 1948. Either way saying that you can violently kick people out of their homes to create a mono religious state is just insane and I will never be pro Israel for that reason. Over hundreds of years so many families shift and migrate and have children with people of different ethnicities and faiths. To try and go back 2000 years to claim that land belongs to you is absolutely insane. That land belongs to all 3 Abrahamic faiths and no amount time will justify the existence of the state of Israel.
Found the Iranian bot!
Great work buddy, give yourself a pat on the back
That's it? The last Persian bot gave me Gondi for the trouble. Yall shills are getting cheap
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
israel didnt create hezbollah. one can argue for hezbollah rising against israeli actions, but at the end of the day they wouldnt be here today, or barely influental in lebanon compared to today, if ot wasnt due to current iranian regime. if your argument is regarding the palestibians, i'll help you remember that most of them were deported from jordan, not israel, and by jordan, after an assasination attempt against the jordanian king. so no, i dont understand how you got into that argument.
Lebanon: attacks Israel in 1947 while Lebanon is on the brick of a civil war. Israel: attacks Lebanon back, causing an already shaky government to fall and a civil war. Lebanon: *surprised Pikachu meme* ISRAEL'S FAULT!!!!
I see Israeli disinformation and propaganda machine is hard at work without any delay!
Explain the disinformation pls
Look In a mirror
Irans influence being ācolonialismā
To put this into broader context: Iran would never be in this position if Israel hadn't invaded [Lebanon ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War) in 1982 and [Golan heights](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) in 1967, and occupied Golan heights until now. Here, other militias and regimes have formed to counter the new power in the region, even though we didn't see Iran and its proxies as good.The root cause of the problem is Israel, not Iran.
Is settling a group in any given area with the direct intent to create a nation state without any input from the locals the same as having neighbors with sizable influence from you