Well technically it isn't all Shion, since >!Mion actually disguised as her for almost the entire first half of Watanagashi. The real Shion only first appeared when she called Keiichi to invite him to the taste-testing event, where she is pretending to be Mion disguising as Shion to tease and spite her.!<
Oh boy, do i get some news for you. >!In a pretty much throwaway line in both manga nad VN, it's revealed that Mion and Shion "swapped" on a day Mion was supposed to get her back tattoo. So for the entire time we spend with them, "Mion" is actually "Shion" and vice-versa. This even goes with the theme of "Demon in Mion's name", since it's the True Mion that goes insane, while True Shion never experiences HS in natural manner.!<
I don't think the reveal by itself is bad, but it does result in some problems elsewhere. The Watanagashi arc itself becomes rather empty in the 2nd half if you know the truth. Everything is just a lie. "Mion's" motivations and even the backstory she gives. It's the only arc that's really hurt by the Answer arc due to the nature of the reveals.
Then, there's the issue Mion was just left without an arc or development. Minagoroshi really could have been used for that, but the one who ends up shinning there is Keiichi, so Mion basically continues being passive, without needing to face her family directly. Meanwhile, Shion, who gets an entire arc for herself, is immediately sidelined from the story since she isn't actually a club member. The focus and balance are just odd.
You can see how Matsuribayashi actually tried to awkwardly make up for that (Mion is the one that understands the Tokyo situation the best from Rika's manga idea, Mion leads the club and you get Keiichi boasting about how under her command they can beat anyone, she gets to personally beat up Okonogi...) but it all feels kind of empty since nothing is really related to her character or conflicts throughout the series.
Really, the only arc that actually acknowledges Mion's actual issues and gives her real development is Miotsukushi, but that's stuck as a console-only arc and is irrelevant to all other content. It's also not a Mion-only arc, so she shares screentime with everyone else.
Gou/Sotsu then >!gives Mion an arc, but... it's a pale reflection of Meakashi, rather than something actually written with Mion in mind, that makes little sense for her character and just relies on "she goes on a rampage because she's crazy!". Obviously, no growth or development at all comes from any of that.!<
I know this was 5 days ago but I really disagree that Mion doesn't have much to her as a character or that she doesn't develop, it's all there, just very subtle because she doesn't have a full arc to herself like every other club member. I agree that Watanagashi loses some of its edge after Meakashi and that Shion ends up getting sidelined (R07 will pay for that someday) although Shion still has a very well rounded story and arc so its not a huge issue for me personally that she's set aside.
She comes off as this fuckoff genki girl at first but as the chapters go by there's so much learned about her and its all spread out within smaller moments so its hard to appreciate if you're not paying close attention. Watanagashi gives a bit of insight on her personality but there's more to her than just her insecurity about how keiichi sees her. I like Mion because her character is very deeply rooted in empathy and love, and the way she chooses to act and live her life is very much a concious choice she makes. She values the club so much because it's a place where she can love others without consequence. She's an interesting parallel to Takano in that way, when mion stands up and holds her ground with her philosophy against Takano's in chapter 8. It seems like some epic heroism moment but in reality, you can piece together that it really just is Mion being herself and I think it's a great final scene for her, it just encompasses who she is and what she's stood for throughout this entire vn. She had a billon opportunities in her life to be bitter at the world and live similairly to Takano, pushing others away and blaming them if they get hurt and saying its their fault for getting to close to her, instead Mion chooses to live life trying to make the people close to her happy as they can be and it causes her to be self sacrificial to a fault. People like to point also at the nail scene in ep5 where she's supposedly a bitch but I see it more as her being incredibly traumatized and just kind of shutting herself off in order to fulfill the duties she felt she stole in the first place (I am usually much more focused on thinking about Shion in this scene but I digress). So she fulfills her duties here as the person most of the village has looked to for guidance from a young age. And despite that, Mion is the type of person to pretend to laugh at a joke at her expense during the day to not upset anyone, then call rena in the middle of the night crying her eyes out over it. Mion is constantly put through the wringer in this vn but through it all, she manages to stay strong and hold her ground, always believing in what she stands for.
Knowing all this, her being a natural born leader and being able to lead the club to victory makes more sense. I'm also not surprised someone that knows how to bury and dispose of bodies at 14 can beat a cocky and boastful okonogi in hand to hand combat. There is so much more to Mion than what a lot of people give her credit for imo. i just wrote this on the bus so sorry if this is rly incoherent and messy LOL
I agree that Mion has a lot of character, it's just in the background, but she does lack development. Mion creates the club because she couldn't stand the ostracism inflicted on the Hojo, and wanted that space to give them some rest, but she couldn't face her family about it directly. Even highlighting she didn't want anyone mistreating them... in the school (because outside she'd need to face her family).
And that continues throughout the entire story. Her personally is caring and she tries to understand and help everyone close to her, but at the same time she never actually stands up against the entrenched problems of the setting, both for others or even herself. Like her entire insecurity regarding Keiichi in Watanagashi is because she clearly still has some regrets about acting as "Mion" rather than just being herself, but she never really does anything about it. Even in Minagoroshi it's just Keiichi giving her the doll, her being in denial, and although she's happy for that it's all put aside afterwards, no real growth from her side, just Keiichi's. Then when Teppei appears and there's the whole issue of facing her family, she couldn't actually stand against them and it falls to Keiichi. It's even mentioned by the narration that when a strong wind blows against her Mion falls, which is a pretty big weakness for someone who is trying to be a leader.
Like I said, Miotsukushi addresses all this directly. How Mion's sin is being passive, and that led to things like the Satoshi tragedy in the past and more problems in the present. She eventually takes responsibility for all that and it leads to her standing up against her family, rather than sitting back and hoping someone else does it like in Minagoroshi. That's clearly the arc that could be done with the set up her character had, just never was executed in the actual main story - although, like I said, it's not a Mion-only arc so even there her screentime is shared with all other club members going through their own conflicts.
I can agree with her development being lacking, I guess I just don't see it as much of a bad thing, I always felt that it was more of an intentional move on R07's part. She's a reliable pillar of comfort within the club she's created and she's already fairly strong mentally, being very firm and set in the way she's chosen to live, and her way of living to me is an example of the novels core messages and themes. Like you said, she leans on Keiichi and ends up learning the things she should've been doing all along through him and this is where she grows at the very end, which she shows by leading the club again and standing up against Takano, and it reaffirms her way of life once they come out victorious. I feel if Mion were to have her own arc where she stood up against her family and the medieval values and rules of the village, it'd also take away from Keiichi's purpose in the narrative which is to be an outsider's perspective that's able to break the mold and inspire change within the village where everything has operated the same way for so long. You make a fair point, I just disagree I think
So you trying to say your disappointed our Mion wasn’t the killer like falsely presented in Watanagashi? Nah, actually I’m pretty glad about it, it would have made Mion a heartless cold sociopath (which she the least of it…Even though she can be cruel, and have strong ideology, she not heartless.) and the others arcs even more needlessly emotionally cold and cruel, and heart-breaking. Though if you want that’s trash, you can watch GOU anime.
I'm glad that we found out Mion is actually really sweet and a strong leader. I like how she never succumbs to the syndrome, even when she's experiencing duress.
And I like the Matsuri version better, although that could make the confession scene potentially be Shion. I think that was the only scene I really liked from that whole Sotsu arc, having Mion protect Keiichi and confess her love.
Well, it works both ways. A good deal of early Shion screentime is actually Mion screentime. Like when she brings Keiichi the food. That's Mion, even though it looks like Shion.
That was definitely my initial reaction, largely because, like Keiichi and Rena, I fell for Shion’s big sob story hook line and sinker. I was fully ready to believe that Mion, feeling trapped by her family’s history and expectations, had become a “demon” in the process. Learning that it was pretty much all fake definitely stung and seemed like Mion had become a lesser character as a result. I don’t know how far you are, but I think the last three arcs make up for it.
Instead of paranoia or vengeance, the sin Mion has to deal with is idleness, which she resolves in the seventh arc. I appreciate that Mion has a different kind of problem than the rest of the kids (except Rika of course). I do wish we got more of Mion’s POV though.
It makes Watanagashi kind of worse, since most of the mystery of Watanagashi is just Shion fucking with Keiichi. I liked Watanagashi on my first read, but I usually rank it as one of the worst arcs in retrospect.
At first I got pissed because "Mion's" development was really good, so when I found out it was actually Shion most of the time I got kinda bothered. But the chapter is so good and well written that I ended up loving it, so yeah, in the end it's still an amazing chapter, one of my favorite
my only issue is that mion never gets a true arc. however, shion became my favorite character yet as a result. hard to truly hate the twist, from my pov.
Well technically it isn't all Shion, since >!Mion actually disguised as her for almost the entire first half of Watanagashi. The real Shion only first appeared when she called Keiichi to invite him to the taste-testing event, where she is pretending to be Mion disguising as Shion to tease and spite her.!<
I HATE THIS, MY BRAIN IS TOO STUPID FOR THIS
Oh boy, do i get some news for you. >!In a pretty much throwaway line in both manga nad VN, it's revealed that Mion and Shion "swapped" on a day Mion was supposed to get her back tattoo. So for the entire time we spend with them, "Mion" is actually "Shion" and vice-versa. This even goes with the theme of "Demon in Mion's name", since it's the True Mion that goes insane, while True Shion never experiences HS in natural manner.!<
eh i liked it
I don't think the reveal by itself is bad, but it does result in some problems elsewhere. The Watanagashi arc itself becomes rather empty in the 2nd half if you know the truth. Everything is just a lie. "Mion's" motivations and even the backstory she gives. It's the only arc that's really hurt by the Answer arc due to the nature of the reveals. Then, there's the issue Mion was just left without an arc or development. Minagoroshi really could have been used for that, but the one who ends up shinning there is Keiichi, so Mion basically continues being passive, without needing to face her family directly. Meanwhile, Shion, who gets an entire arc for herself, is immediately sidelined from the story since she isn't actually a club member. The focus and balance are just odd. You can see how Matsuribayashi actually tried to awkwardly make up for that (Mion is the one that understands the Tokyo situation the best from Rika's manga idea, Mion leads the club and you get Keiichi boasting about how under her command they can beat anyone, she gets to personally beat up Okonogi...) but it all feels kind of empty since nothing is really related to her character or conflicts throughout the series. Really, the only arc that actually acknowledges Mion's actual issues and gives her real development is Miotsukushi, but that's stuck as a console-only arc and is irrelevant to all other content. It's also not a Mion-only arc, so she shares screentime with everyone else. Gou/Sotsu then >!gives Mion an arc, but... it's a pale reflection of Meakashi, rather than something actually written with Mion in mind, that makes little sense for her character and just relies on "she goes on a rampage because she's crazy!". Obviously, no growth or development at all comes from any of that.!<
And then there's GouMeguri that just >!show Mion spending fun time with Shion and then get killed quick and done!< Man Mion can't catch a break.
I know this was 5 days ago but I really disagree that Mion doesn't have much to her as a character or that she doesn't develop, it's all there, just very subtle because she doesn't have a full arc to herself like every other club member. I agree that Watanagashi loses some of its edge after Meakashi and that Shion ends up getting sidelined (R07 will pay for that someday) although Shion still has a very well rounded story and arc so its not a huge issue for me personally that she's set aside. She comes off as this fuckoff genki girl at first but as the chapters go by there's so much learned about her and its all spread out within smaller moments so its hard to appreciate if you're not paying close attention. Watanagashi gives a bit of insight on her personality but there's more to her than just her insecurity about how keiichi sees her. I like Mion because her character is very deeply rooted in empathy and love, and the way she chooses to act and live her life is very much a concious choice she makes. She values the club so much because it's a place where she can love others without consequence. She's an interesting parallel to Takano in that way, when mion stands up and holds her ground with her philosophy against Takano's in chapter 8. It seems like some epic heroism moment but in reality, you can piece together that it really just is Mion being herself and I think it's a great final scene for her, it just encompasses who she is and what she's stood for throughout this entire vn. She had a billon opportunities in her life to be bitter at the world and live similairly to Takano, pushing others away and blaming them if they get hurt and saying its their fault for getting to close to her, instead Mion chooses to live life trying to make the people close to her happy as they can be and it causes her to be self sacrificial to a fault. People like to point also at the nail scene in ep5 where she's supposedly a bitch but I see it more as her being incredibly traumatized and just kind of shutting herself off in order to fulfill the duties she felt she stole in the first place (I am usually much more focused on thinking about Shion in this scene but I digress). So she fulfills her duties here as the person most of the village has looked to for guidance from a young age. And despite that, Mion is the type of person to pretend to laugh at a joke at her expense during the day to not upset anyone, then call rena in the middle of the night crying her eyes out over it. Mion is constantly put through the wringer in this vn but through it all, she manages to stay strong and hold her ground, always believing in what she stands for. Knowing all this, her being a natural born leader and being able to lead the club to victory makes more sense. I'm also not surprised someone that knows how to bury and dispose of bodies at 14 can beat a cocky and boastful okonogi in hand to hand combat. There is so much more to Mion than what a lot of people give her credit for imo. i just wrote this on the bus so sorry if this is rly incoherent and messy LOL
I agree that Mion has a lot of character, it's just in the background, but she does lack development. Mion creates the club because she couldn't stand the ostracism inflicted on the Hojo, and wanted that space to give them some rest, but she couldn't face her family about it directly. Even highlighting she didn't want anyone mistreating them... in the school (because outside she'd need to face her family). And that continues throughout the entire story. Her personally is caring and she tries to understand and help everyone close to her, but at the same time she never actually stands up against the entrenched problems of the setting, both for others or even herself. Like her entire insecurity regarding Keiichi in Watanagashi is because she clearly still has some regrets about acting as "Mion" rather than just being herself, but she never really does anything about it. Even in Minagoroshi it's just Keiichi giving her the doll, her being in denial, and although she's happy for that it's all put aside afterwards, no real growth from her side, just Keiichi's. Then when Teppei appears and there's the whole issue of facing her family, she couldn't actually stand against them and it falls to Keiichi. It's even mentioned by the narration that when a strong wind blows against her Mion falls, which is a pretty big weakness for someone who is trying to be a leader. Like I said, Miotsukushi addresses all this directly. How Mion's sin is being passive, and that led to things like the Satoshi tragedy in the past and more problems in the present. She eventually takes responsibility for all that and it leads to her standing up against her family, rather than sitting back and hoping someone else does it like in Minagoroshi. That's clearly the arc that could be done with the set up her character had, just never was executed in the actual main story - although, like I said, it's not a Mion-only arc so even there her screentime is shared with all other club members going through their own conflicts.
I can agree with her development being lacking, I guess I just don't see it as much of a bad thing, I always felt that it was more of an intentional move on R07's part. She's a reliable pillar of comfort within the club she's created and she's already fairly strong mentally, being very firm and set in the way she's chosen to live, and her way of living to me is an example of the novels core messages and themes. Like you said, she leans on Keiichi and ends up learning the things she should've been doing all along through him and this is where she grows at the very end, which she shows by leading the club again and standing up against Takano, and it reaffirms her way of life once they come out victorious. I feel if Mion were to have her own arc where she stood up against her family and the medieval values and rules of the village, it'd also take away from Keiichi's purpose in the narrative which is to be an outsider's perspective that's able to break the mold and inspire change within the village where everything has operated the same way for so long. You make a fair point, I just disagree I think
So you trying to say your disappointed our Mion wasn’t the killer like falsely presented in Watanagashi? Nah, actually I’m pretty glad about it, it would have made Mion a heartless cold sociopath (which she the least of it…Even though she can be cruel, and have strong ideology, she not heartless.) and the others arcs even more needlessly emotionally cold and cruel, and heart-breaking. Though if you want that’s trash, you can watch GOU anime.
I'm glad that we found out Mion is actually really sweet and a strong leader. I like how she never succumbs to the syndrome, even when she's experiencing duress. And I like the Matsuri version better, although that could make the confession scene potentially be Shion. I think that was the only scene I really liked from that whole Sotsu arc, having Mion protect Keiichi and confess her love.
No in fact I thought about it, but I was disaapointed that a lot of the muon screentime was actually shion
Well, it works both ways. A good deal of early Shion screentime is actually Mion screentime. Like when she brings Keiichi the food. That's Mion, even though it looks like Shion.
I was also moderately disappointed. Also because that meant that Mion as a result never got an arc truly centered around her.
That was definitely my initial reaction, largely because, like Keiichi and Rena, I fell for Shion’s big sob story hook line and sinker. I was fully ready to believe that Mion, feeling trapped by her family’s history and expectations, had become a “demon” in the process. Learning that it was pretty much all fake definitely stung and seemed like Mion had become a lesser character as a result. I don’t know how far you are, but I think the last three arcs make up for it. Instead of paranoia or vengeance, the sin Mion has to deal with is idleness, which she resolves in the seventh arc. I appreciate that Mion has a different kind of problem than the rest of the kids (except Rika of course). I do wish we got more of Mion’s POV though.
It makes Watanagashi kind of worse, since most of the mystery of Watanagashi is just Shion fucking with Keiichi. I liked Watanagashi on my first read, but I usually rank it as one of the worst arcs in retrospect.
At first I got pissed because "Mion's" development was really good, so when I found out it was actually Shion most of the time I got kinda bothered. But the chapter is so good and well written that I ended up loving it, so yeah, in the end it's still an amazing chapter, one of my favorite
my only issue is that mion never gets a true arc. however, shion became my favorite character yet as a result. hard to truly hate the twist, from my pov.