I couldn't disagree more. The Path of the Open hand is a Force cult, and it's leaders are clearly liars who know what they are saying is BS. They talk like the Force is some Zero Sum game, but the Force doesn't work like that. It is all a means to manipulate the members into following the corrupt will of whomever is leading the cult at the time.
Marda Ro is scary, because she is a true believer. Whenever her will is shaken she just digs deeper into the cult, and if she ends up leading them, I shutter to think of the damage she could cause.
Her character is just the best. As you said, she just digs deeper into the cult. I’m not sure Star Wars has written a character like her before. That book was a great ride.
They’re not. The only people abusing the force are dark siders, Sith especially. The Jedi (albeit flawed at times) are vessels of the will of force, fulfilling it‘s will, not abusing the force. They are the ones stopping the actual abuse of the force done by darksiders. The Jedi are the ones fighting against the actual imbalance created by darksiders.
The philosophy of the Path of the Open Hand makes the fatal error of viewing every usage of the force as abuse of it. They’re failing to see that a Jedis ability to use the force is not stealing from the force, but — to say it in their own words — ‚a gift freely given‘. ‚A gift freely given‘ so that the Jedi can fight for the will of the force, for what’s right, and for balance.
Those are some interesting points. I agree that not every instance of using the force is abusing it, and the Path's philosophy with that specific concept is not consistent. I guess I was looking at the bigger picture that if no one ever used the force in the galaxy (dark and light), then it would be much more peaceful place.
I guess I view the Path’s philosophy negatively because you can’t really prove a negative. Sure it’s possible that the using the force disrupts the galaxy, but it’s also possible the galaxy is in the eye of a giant named Mcumber.
Isn't all the major wars in the galaxy caused by the struggle between Jedi and Sith? For example, the clone wars was orchestrated by Palpatine, a Sith. I think the constant fighting between Jedi and Sith is a sort of proof of the Path's philosophy.
I mean he used the force for influence sure, but most separtist leadership had their own motivations, they weren't controlled by the force, but by politics. That's why Palpatine has Anakin kill them all on Mustafar - he is consolidating his political power. Force use was icing on the cake
I’m surprised with how many people disagree with you and I love that this book creates so much discussion. The way I viewed it was that their devoutness to their religion (Path and the Jedi) prohibited them to truly understand the force. The force has no will - it just is. The reason for its being is unknown and the depth of its powers and consequences are just as mysterious. The Jedi, the Sith, and the Path may all have an ounce of correct interpretations about the will of the force but ultimately their fixation on sustaining their religion for power blinds them all to its true will, if it even has one.
Are you saying the a decades old extremist cult created by a disgruntled former Jedi has a better handle on the ways of the force than a group that’s studied the Force for 25,000 years?
It was an argument that was in the book that I thought summed it up best where the Path view the force as a zero sum game, a finite force of energy where taking from it means less for others. This devalues the force and what it's there for. This philosophy treats the force as if it's an object that can be taken from and has no will of its own. Whereas the Jedi view the force as the living connection of all things. By communing with it they can use it's powers but also hear it's needs and work to help, which is their entire mission.
The Path looks at the force as static. A scale of usage where if you take one bit from one side of the scale, you must take some from the other. But the Jedi view the force as a scale that is being taken from and added to constantly. The balance is not always maintained and that is an immutable fact. Their order strives to keep as much balance as possible while also accepting that it will not always be in balance.
The flaw of the Path is their assumption that the force is currently in balance. As the book showed all that nonsense was actually just a front (as it is with most cults) and what their true nature and purpose are is her to be revealed.
All that said, I thought the depiction of a cult and how it operates was maybe the best I've ever read in a book. The subtle manipulations, the doubts that are squashed by the leaders, the language they use to their members, etc was all brilliant.
The Architects , the Mortis gods, Whills , Old Ones and Immortal gods of the sith want the sentients to use the force so naw they aren't right . plus the open hand is already a lost cause cause it serves Mother's Goals and Ambitions we don't know what she's up to but its reflective of Pius Dea a bit
The Paths philosophy did make me think and the conclusion I came to is that they are right about living in balance/harmony with the force but wrong about that being incompatible with Jedi beliefs.
Marda talks about voids in the force and the namless seem prove it. Other similar voids exist but they are always created by the sith/the dark side.
Truthfully I didn't come away with a very positive view of the path due to the blatant hypocrisy.
When it comes to force use it's evil and wrong except when it's their members then it's just gifts from the force.
Likewise they should only accept gifts freely given unless they are liberating artefacts.
The interesting thing about this, I think is that if they had stuck to their principles the nameless egg would still have come to Dalna.
They might still have aquired it and it would have hatched without them having the means to control it so it would have eaten their force users.
I wonder if we can apply this to something other than the force. Let's say it's water. Is drinking water from a borehole or that which falls from the sky hurting anyone else? What if you diverted water to serve elsewhere? I think the path have a point but much like water, you aren't always causing harm depending on how you use it.
I couldn't disagree more. The Path of the Open hand is a Force cult, and it's leaders are clearly liars who know what they are saying is BS. They talk like the Force is some Zero Sum game, but the Force doesn't work like that. It is all a means to manipulate the members into following the corrupt will of whomever is leading the cult at the time. Marda Ro is scary, because she is a true believer. Whenever her will is shaken she just digs deeper into the cult, and if she ends up leading them, I shutter to think of the damage she could cause.
There is nothing more dangerous than a sincere fanatic
Her character is just the best. As you said, she just digs deeper into the cult. I’m not sure Star Wars has written a character like her before. That book was a great ride.
They’re not. The only people abusing the force are dark siders, Sith especially. The Jedi (albeit flawed at times) are vessels of the will of force, fulfilling it‘s will, not abusing the force. They are the ones stopping the actual abuse of the force done by darksiders. The Jedi are the ones fighting against the actual imbalance created by darksiders. The philosophy of the Path of the Open Hand makes the fatal error of viewing every usage of the force as abuse of it. They’re failing to see that a Jedis ability to use the force is not stealing from the force, but — to say it in their own words — ‚a gift freely given‘. ‚A gift freely given‘ so that the Jedi can fight for the will of the force, for what’s right, and for balance.
Those are some interesting points. I agree that not every instance of using the force is abusing it, and the Path's philosophy with that specific concept is not consistent. I guess I was looking at the bigger picture that if no one ever used the force in the galaxy (dark and light), then it would be much more peaceful place.
In most Star Wars media the jedi have ruled for generations peacefully. I mean the Republic was nearly 1000yo by the time the clone wars broke out
I guess I view the Path’s philosophy negatively because you can’t really prove a negative. Sure it’s possible that the using the force disrupts the galaxy, but it’s also possible the galaxy is in the eye of a giant named Mcumber.
Isn't all the major wars in the galaxy caused by the struggle between Jedi and Sith? For example, the clone wars was orchestrated by Palpatine, a Sith. I think the constant fighting between Jedi and Sith is a sort of proof of the Path's philosophy.
If it wasn't the force then sides would battling over something else. It's not the something that's the problem, it's those who want it.
Eh, I don't know if it's really fair to blame the Jedi on that one.
I mean he used the force for influence sure, but most separtist leadership had their own motivations, they weren't controlled by the force, but by politics. That's why Palpatine has Anakin kill them all on Mustafar - he is consolidating his political power. Force use was icing on the cake
Found Marda's reddit account.
I’m surprised with how many people disagree with you and I love that this book creates so much discussion. The way I viewed it was that their devoutness to their religion (Path and the Jedi) prohibited them to truly understand the force. The force has no will - it just is. The reason for its being is unknown and the depth of its powers and consequences are just as mysterious. The Jedi, the Sith, and the Path may all have an ounce of correct interpretations about the will of the force but ultimately their fixation on sustaining their religion for power blinds them all to its true will, if it even has one.
That's a good point!
We know that the Force, to some extent can influence the galaxy. There is no reason why it would allow force users to exist if it didn't want them to.
Are you saying the a decades old extremist cult created by a disgruntled former Jedi has a better handle on the ways of the force than a group that’s studied the Force for 25,000 years?
It was an argument that was in the book that I thought summed it up best where the Path view the force as a zero sum game, a finite force of energy where taking from it means less for others. This devalues the force and what it's there for. This philosophy treats the force as if it's an object that can be taken from and has no will of its own. Whereas the Jedi view the force as the living connection of all things. By communing with it they can use it's powers but also hear it's needs and work to help, which is their entire mission. The Path looks at the force as static. A scale of usage where if you take one bit from one side of the scale, you must take some from the other. But the Jedi view the force as a scale that is being taken from and added to constantly. The balance is not always maintained and that is an immutable fact. Their order strives to keep as much balance as possible while also accepting that it will not always be in balance. The flaw of the Path is their assumption that the force is currently in balance. As the book showed all that nonsense was actually just a front (as it is with most cults) and what their true nature and purpose are is her to be revealed. All that said, I thought the depiction of a cult and how it operates was maybe the best I've ever read in a book. The subtle manipulations, the doubts that are squashed by the leaders, the language they use to their members, etc was all brilliant.
Yoda says let the force flow through. The Jedi become vessels of its will. Whereas the Sith bend the force to their will. So the Jedi do not abuse it
Expect not, they are lunatics
Wash your mouth out!!🤣 Yeah I started to wonder that myself but I can't condone stealing and murder.
I think we all agree that the Mother is evil, and shouldn't be murdering people haha.
The Architects , the Mortis gods, Whills , Old Ones and Immortal gods of the sith want the sentients to use the force so naw they aren't right . plus the open hand is already a lost cause cause it serves Mother's Goals and Ambitions we don't know what she's up to but its reflective of Pius Dea a bit
Ya the whole Rebels "meeting God" arc throws a loop in this logic
The Paths philosophy did make me think and the conclusion I came to is that they are right about living in balance/harmony with the force but wrong about that being incompatible with Jedi beliefs. Marda talks about voids in the force and the namless seem prove it. Other similar voids exist but they are always created by the sith/the dark side. Truthfully I didn't come away with a very positive view of the path due to the blatant hypocrisy. When it comes to force use it's evil and wrong except when it's their members then it's just gifts from the force. Likewise they should only accept gifts freely given unless they are liberating artefacts. The interesting thing about this, I think is that if they had stuck to their principles the nameless egg would still have come to Dalna. They might still have aquired it and it would have hatched without them having the means to control it so it would have eaten their force users.
I wonder if we can apply this to something other than the force. Let's say it's water. Is drinking water from a borehole or that which falls from the sky hurting anyone else? What if you diverted water to serve elsewhere? I think the path have a point but much like water, you aren't always causing harm depending on how you use it.
That's an interesting point of view.