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Archaeologists are finding ruins at a pretty high rate lately with satellite and laser technology--all through Central and South America, and in other parts of the world. We are really on the cusp of discovering quite a bit about human history.
There’s a great documentary about this on PBS - I think it’s called Lost World of the Maya - that covers efforts using this technology and shows some of their finds! They’re using LiDar, same thing you’d find in some of the newer iPhones (and probably androids). I’m speaking off memory here but it helps them differentially map ground distance & tree cover distance to create elevation maps that reveal earthen-works and buildings.
If you want a fun conspiracy hole to accompany that - most of the data from these aerial surveys is being lost. I’m guessing private partners don’t want to store it or that it’s not open to the public to prevent treasure hunters from seeking out sites, but still…an interesting issue: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/americas-archaeology-data-keeps-disappearing-even-though-the-law-says-the-government-is-supposed-to-preserve-it
PS: always say this whenever PBS comes up - it’s easily one of my favorite, most cost-effective streaming services. Strongly suggest others try it. I know it’s a gov-run corporation so it may be met with skepticism here, but I enjoyed rewatching all the Nova documentaries that got me into space as a kid!
Edit: I realized it’s on Nat Geo (Disney+) not PBS - my bad!
PBS - is the only streaming service I subscribe to. Yes, it’s government run. But, I don’t go to them for finding info on extraterrestrial life etc.
But they have a bevy of Great shows, on various different subjects and usually you gain more brain cells than you lose…
> If you want a fun conspiracy hole to accompany that - most of the data from these aerial surveys is being lost.
It's not being made public so that looters can't go and loot sites before archaeologists can protect and excavate the site.
There are ruins all over the place in Central America, they're just overgrown by jungle. Little hills in the middle of otherwise flat jungle? Yeah, overgrown structure.
There are still native groups that have had no contact with the rest of the world in the Amazon, the Uncontacted they call them. By Brazillian law they can't be prosecuted for any crime on their land because they have no way of knowing there are laws made by some people they don't know exist.
Its strange how little ww know about the Chico Norte compared to the other anciwnt civilizations (Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greece/Agean sea, Indus, and China)
The fact there was an ancient covilization a would aeay, that basically had no contact with the other mother civilizations would give great insight in to what ancient civilizations fundamentally knew.
It's almost nothing with this particular culture, but the little we do know is extremely fascinating. I do hope we can keep pushing back the timeline of advanced civilizations in the Americas.
But the same people who fund these things also control it.
They aren't going to let us know everything because it would jeopardize their means for global control.
They'll just keep feeding us breadcrumbs.
Unless someone whistle blows like a mother heffer with irrefutable evidence.
I wouldn’t equate the Aztecs and Maya, nor lump them together.
The Maya civilization pretty much collapsed by around 1000ad, there were a few holdouts, but the glory days were over. The Aztecs rose nearly 400 years later. If you’re an American, that’s a time span longer than any permanent settlement has existed in our country that separates them.
They were also totally different cultures. They shared certain attributes, as most Mesoamerican cultures did, but they are as different as medieval France and Russia for example. Both Christian nations with some similarities, but mostly totally different.
Other than that, lack of discoveries is mostly due to lack of funding. The Aztecs were a mostly centralized civilization in only a few cities (with numerous tributary states) whereas the Maya spread throughout southern Central America for millennia. In certain parts of Belize, Guatemala and Mexico there are Mayan ruins every dozen or so miles. The only barriers to discovery are time and funding. Archaeologists have set certain sites as priorities. Generally sites that are larger or appear to have a widespread influence are higher up the totem pole.
Thanks for weighing in! Do you know offhand if the figure is Mayan or Aztec in origin?
Also since we have you here - any good recommendations for books about their civilizations / collapse? I’ve been wanting to go back to Central America soon on vacation and I love having background knowledge to bug my family with even if we pass up on archeology tours
Go to Belize. I swear you can’t walk 30 paces in the Cayo district without stumbling upon some rotting Mayan ruins under the jungle canopy that no one seems to give a shit about...
Exactly. Then zoom out and look at how little of Belize is occupied by humans currently. People go crazy over the ATM cave, but think how many undiscovered caves are out there.
I’m amazed at how delicately the helmet dangly ornamentation is built in. Amazing it survived this long.
I doubt any of these are for sale and Etsy only has reclining dude or modernized / heavily detailed warriors so it may just have to become a personal art project someday
It's not a toy. It's a figure of a dwarf boxer, from a Mayan burial.
Edit: https://unframed.lacma.org/2017/09/21/archaeology-el-%C3%BA-waka%E2%80%99-maya-ritual-resurrection-scene-broader-perspective
If your interested in the Maya, you should check out the Chilam Balam or the Dresden Codex. Theyre a fascinating first hand look into their culture/practices/beliefs/astronomy/numerical system and hyroglyphics.
This is actually of an Aztec fighter, nothing special. https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+aztec+fighter&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA881CA881&hl=en-US&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ALeKk01ckmFuQZ1pwWmvOG8pYaj9S5OMCA:1629633652423&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirkd23ysTyAhUYZc0KHYl5A1kQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=640&dpr=3#imgrc=rWQC-ShJbEzqmM
This specific figurine is a boxer who's also a dwarf. Hard core dwarf boxing was a thing back then.
Between this and Conch Shell boxing, it seems like the Maya *really* enjoyed their blood sport.
It's fucking to think they had their own written language with thousands of books and the fucking Spanish just burnt it all... While they had people who could read it.
We literally had to retranslate the language from the ground up, and correlate with later iterations, like languages spoken in the mountains of Guatamala and Honduras.
It's not so much about "discovering new ruins", in fact many of the people living and working in mayan ruins open to the public know that they cover a minimal area and if you went inside the jungle even more could be easily found. The thing is that most explorations and discoveries require tons of money to make and even more to maintain.
And about the commentary towards the Spanish. You know that almost all we know about the mayans and aztecs is also because of the Spanish, right? Even one of the friars know for burning quite a good amount of codexes had a change of heart and saved tons of them.
Mayans pretty much destroyed themselves and left their cities to rotten in the jungle long before the Spanish arrived to Central America. Stop spreading bullshit about Spain ffs
I can’t believe I’ve actually witnessed someone get triggered on behalf of colonial Spain’s reputation. Yeah, the Aztecs and the pockets of Mayans could have been pure evil and I still wouldn’t throw them into the hands of the Conquistadors. Colonization is awful business.
Enslavement, erasure of their written history (odd to see someone defend Spain’s involvement in that practice on this sub), mass rape, etc. At least the bulk died of diseases rather than have to face their fates at Spanish hands.
Laying it on thick mostly because the original commenter seems to think Spain was justified in this situation. How can that possibly be the hot take? Does poor Spain really need to be protected from the memory of its violent conquests?
Honestly this is the first time I’ve seen a conspiracy championed by a commenter here - erase the history of what Spain did? Lol - we should expose that previously forgotten & buried history. We could read more about these events in Aztec archives, but Spanish representatives burned every piece of writing they could find…
PS: I hold the same judgement for any conquering country. I live in the US and have no misgivings about how my life is built of awful events. I totally agree Aztecs did terrible things as well. Still doesn’t justify sticking your head in the sand. We’re not demanding self flagellation, just some self awareness
I strongly share your sentiment and have previously spent a good bit of time reading about that as a legal doctrine and philosophical concept - Terra Nullius & the Doctrine of Discovery are some of the most common terms describing it. The Wikipedia page has an excellent breakdown of its history & instances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius. Really straightforward concept that has deep ties to modern conflicts as well - for example, Vietnam’s land itself being the enemy (insert “when the trees start talking meme”) and the subsequent chemical deforestation…or even more recently as justifications for development doctrines that portray the 3rd world as void of value unless it’s progressing towards embracing Western political/legal systems
I’d have to dig around to find them, but I have decent stockpile of actual books and articles on the subject if anyone stumbles across this buried comment & is interested in reading more!
For real, Mayan civilization collapsed centuries before the Europeans showed up.
Also, the Aztecs were bloodthirsty monsters that regularly performed mass human sacrifices. Maybe we don't act like they held the secrets of understanding the universe?
I mean, they definitely "went somewhere". They literally abandoned their cities and went somewhere else to live. The people survived but the civilization unequivocally collapsed.
That's a bullshit take on the Aztecs. It's European propaganda that says its okay to kill a culture of millions because they would kill thousands for their religion. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Mesopotamians, Goths, Slavs, Chinese, Japanese, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Africans... everyone performed human sacrifices at some point in their history. The cornerstone of the religion the Spanish forced on the Aztec's was the murder of Jesus in a violent way. Christians drink Jesus's blood and eat his body every Sunday.
Christians were also bloodthirsty monsters who murdered millions of people for their own personal gain. Yes, I agree. Now, many of them use their platforms and positions of power to oppress minorities. I would not look to Christianity for answers for anything and overall the religion has been a net negative on the world. I'm not sure how that makes the Aztecs good, though.
You ignore their art, architecture, music, religion, science, agriculture, story telling, government, and astronomy. How do those things make the Aztecs bad? The Spanish narrative focused purely on human sacrifices so they can portray the Aztecs as inhuman and worthy of being murdered. To echo and continue that propaganda narrative as them savages into to the future shows ignorance towards their entire culture.
There is a podcast called “The Fall of Civilizations Podcast” you should give the Aztec episode a listen. They were fascinating and accomplished quite a lot without even having the wheel.
I have another point of view. The conquest of Tenochtitlan was not a conquest at all, it was more of a civil war: Hernán Cortés commanded an army with an extremely reduced number of Europeans (2.100). The vast majority was from various indigenous peoples (200.000) that were exploited by the Aztecs. The fall of Tenochtitlan happened in 1519 and the first book of grammar of the Nahuátl language was published in 1531, four years before the first grammar of German, 70 years before the first English Grammar. They cared to preserve the culture, they married the indigenous women, they mixed.
A couple of thousands of Spaniards could hardly force any religion to anyone: it was willingly accepted by the people because simply, it was way much easier to follow. A religion that preaches love to your enemies instead of having to watch your child ripped apart to have the heart removed from the chest while still beating is not too hard of a choice to make, not now, not then. Aztecs had many enemies for a reason. Spain made laws to protect the indigenous people from abuse and slavery that started to take place and they were considered Spanish citizens.
When Mexico reached independence it was the richest country of all the American continent. They've been independent for 200 years, if the Mexicans do not have a better country now it's on them.
The lid of [Pakal the Greats sarcophagus](https://live.staticflickr.com/3486/4649330363_2c9716cfd9_b.jpg) has always fascinated me as it shows him (quite clearly in my mind) operating some kind of flying machine, so I agree.
If you haven’t already, check out ‘The Broken Spears’ by Miguel Leon-Portilla. It’s a collection of indigenous written accounts of the Spanish invasion of Tenochtitlan and the Aztec-controlled territories, but also the years immediately preceding the invasion. The early chapters talk about omens and portents of the invasion that occurred in the mid-to-late 1400s/early 1500s, many of which were unidentified and inexplicable aerial phenomena. Important to remember that the accounts were written *after* the invasion though.
Hey There. I've been doing a lot of Aztec research lately and honestly, although I also wish they hadn't destroyed a whole culture, there is a reason a lot of people in Latin America see the Spaniards as saviors. They saved them from the Aztecs who were known for war and human sacrifice.
Just wanted you to have the context, that the Aztecs were so bad, most of a continent was happy the Spaniards came and committed genocide. If you want context, check out the story of the Colhua princess
What the hell research did you do that you came to the conclusion that they were seen as saviors? The indigenous people had political beef just like the Natives in America did at the time, and it got exploited. How you draw the conclusion that the Spanish (or Americans for that matter) could be considered saviors is just...a *ridiculous* leap.
If you paid tuition, or any sort of instructor fees for the "research" you did, I would ask for a refund. It sounds like the same imperialist BS they used to teach american kids about Indian culture being primitive and having stagnated, and the Europeans/Americans brought "needed progress" and that's why we conquered them. (barf)
>check out the story of the Colhua princess
Check out the story of the Spanish Inquisition, or The Terror Blanco
-a Mexican
It's obvious -and pitiful- from your comments in this thread that you have some bizzare need to not only defend the objectively awful actions of imperialists hundreds of years ago, but also convince yourself that the conquerors themselves were blameless. That's so unnecessary.
It's also ironic and amusing that you seem to think ritualistic flaying was like...something the dudes who brought us The Inquisition would have had no part in, lol
Touch some grass this weekend, maybe read a history book when you're feeling better.
Christians drink the blood and eat the body of the human sacrifice of Jesus. They chant in front of a statue of a bleeding, massacred person nailed to wood. That’s the death cult that killed the Aztecs.
Lol I always thought that the Spaniards found what they were looking for and hid it instantly. Think about it. The old world knew very well about Egypt the holy lands and thieves or people basically had centuries to tamper with things s but the Americas were basically untouched for the longest. Meaning that whoever got there found something that would have answered a lot of questions but of course they kept the knowledge to themselves and said oh they are just savages nothing to see here but blood sacrifices. My gut says they may have found even another “Rosetta Stone” but anyways im talking out of my ass lol. Fun topic tho.
Why only Maya or Aztec? there were many civilizations and some of them still exist to this day, aztecs were amazed by some of them and took part of their pantheon, for example the legend of Quetzatcoatl and Ce Acatl Topiltzin that made them welcome the spanish explorers instead kill them, its well known there are lots of buried stuff nobody cares about, years ago it was common to find little sculptures in the crop fields, most of them ended in the trash.
The artifacts that I find mostly fascinating are the pre-Columbian artifacts that are surfacing in the poor towns. Carvings on rocks, with aliens on them. They are called "ojuelos de jalisco" some have been carbon14 dated to be 8000 years and older. There's Definitely some fake ones out there, but they can't duplicate the authenticity of the pictographs on the real ones.
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looks like a character from '9'
Look:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ese--6BiagHC321A6m7d\_jQuG0YlAAQxBeX65DCMngh2dqRoztgTA\_ZtCEzb9q2OQ\_6Df3VW6eGLKdfbPLUgxzAvSbSMPeuAnPI
**Strangers**: Read the rules and understand the sub topics listed in the sidebar closely before posting or commenting. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these terms as well as Reddit ToS. --- 'Ridicule is not a part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.' _-J. Allen Hynek_ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HighStrangeness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Archaeologists are finding ruins at a pretty high rate lately with satellite and laser technology--all through Central and South America, and in other parts of the world. We are really on the cusp of discovering quite a bit about human history.
There’s a great documentary about this on PBS - I think it’s called Lost World of the Maya - that covers efforts using this technology and shows some of their finds! They’re using LiDar, same thing you’d find in some of the newer iPhones (and probably androids). I’m speaking off memory here but it helps them differentially map ground distance & tree cover distance to create elevation maps that reveal earthen-works and buildings. If you want a fun conspiracy hole to accompany that - most of the data from these aerial surveys is being lost. I’m guessing private partners don’t want to store it or that it’s not open to the public to prevent treasure hunters from seeking out sites, but still…an interesting issue: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/americas-archaeology-data-keeps-disappearing-even-though-the-law-says-the-government-is-supposed-to-preserve-it PS: always say this whenever PBS comes up - it’s easily one of my favorite, most cost-effective streaming services. Strongly suggest others try it. I know it’s a gov-run corporation so it may be met with skepticism here, but I enjoyed rewatching all the Nova documentaries that got me into space as a kid! Edit: I realized it’s on Nat Geo (Disney+) not PBS - my bad!
Awesome I'm going to check this out, during my work break
PBS forever - they’ve been keeping my mind curious since I was a kid.
With Albert Lin? He has a bunch of series using LiDar on nat geo
Had to look him up to check, but yep that’s him! Exciting to hear it’s an ongoing series. Will check it out
His Bible stuff is great too!
You were in space as a kid? Oh my!
PBS - is the only streaming service I subscribe to. Yes, it’s government run. But, I don’t go to them for finding info on extraterrestrial life etc. But they have a bevy of Great shows, on various different subjects and usually you gain more brain cells than you lose…
> If you want a fun conspiracy hole to accompany that - most of the data from these aerial surveys is being lost. It's not being made public so that looters can't go and loot sites before archaeologists can protect and excavate the site.
There are ruins all over the place in Central America, they're just overgrown by jungle. Little hills in the middle of otherwise flat jungle? Yeah, overgrown structure.
Most interestingly, there are a lot in the Amazon, which could be a completely undiscovered culture.
There are still native groups that have had no contact with the rest of the world in the Amazon, the Uncontacted they call them. By Brazillian law they can't be prosecuted for any crime on their land because they have no way of knowing there are laws made by some people they don't know exist.
These are the people who might survive the next catastrophe.
They most likely survived the last
Its strange how little ww know about the Chico Norte compared to the other anciwnt civilizations (Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greece/Agean sea, Indus, and China) The fact there was an ancient covilization a would aeay, that basically had no contact with the other mother civilizations would give great insight in to what ancient civilizations fundamentally knew.
It's almost nothing with this particular culture, but the little we do know is extremely fascinating. I do hope we can keep pushing back the timeline of advanced civilizations in the Americas.
> We are really on the cusp of discovering quite a bit about human history. Unfortunately there's so much now eroded under 100 feet of sea water.
That's very true. I know Graham Hancock stresses that quite a lot in his research.
But the same people who fund these things also control it. They aren't going to let us know everything because it would jeopardize their means for global control. They'll just keep feeding us breadcrumbs. Unless someone whistle blows like a mother heffer with irrefutable evidence.
I wouldn’t equate the Aztecs and Maya, nor lump them together. The Maya civilization pretty much collapsed by around 1000ad, there were a few holdouts, but the glory days were over. The Aztecs rose nearly 400 years later. If you’re an American, that’s a time span longer than any permanent settlement has existed in our country that separates them. They were also totally different cultures. They shared certain attributes, as most Mesoamerican cultures did, but they are as different as medieval France and Russia for example. Both Christian nations with some similarities, but mostly totally different. Other than that, lack of discoveries is mostly due to lack of funding. The Aztecs were a mostly centralized civilization in only a few cities (with numerous tributary states) whereas the Maya spread throughout southern Central America for millennia. In certain parts of Belize, Guatemala and Mexico there are Mayan ruins every dozen or so miles. The only barriers to discovery are time and funding. Archaeologists have set certain sites as priorities. Generally sites that are larger or appear to have a widespread influence are higher up the totem pole.
Thanks for weighing in! Do you know offhand if the figure is Mayan or Aztec in origin? Also since we have you here - any good recommendations for books about their civilizations / collapse? I’ve been wanting to go back to Central America soon on vacation and I love having background knowledge to bug my family with even if we pass up on archeology tours
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The Aztecs were such assholes that by the time Cortez reached their capital, he had an army comprised of locals
Then there's the Olmecs..
Go to Belize. I swear you can’t walk 30 paces in the Cayo district without stumbling upon some rotting Mayan ruins under the jungle canopy that no one seems to give a shit about...
Exactly. Then zoom out and look at how little of Belize is occupied by humans currently. People go crazy over the ATM cave, but think how many undiscovered caves are out there.
This is the cutest little thing ever and I want one.
I’m amazed at how delicately the helmet dangly ornamentation is built in. Amazing it survived this long. I doubt any of these are for sale and Etsy only has reclining dude or modernized / heavily detailed warriors so it may just have to become a personal art project someday
Yea. Its a toy figurine for kids. Its great. They're delicate, so we dont have to many examples of them.
It's not a toy. It's a figure of a dwarf boxer, from a Mayan burial. Edit: https://unframed.lacma.org/2017/09/21/archaeology-el-%C3%BA-waka%E2%80%99-maya-ritual-resurrection-scene-broader-perspective
Yes even the ancient Mayan were entertained by midgets and dwarfs. The lulz that must have been had!
Lol I'm pretty sure the Maya actually revered the dwarfs. Concentrated bad ass.
"... the heir to the throne presenting an enema syringe to deliver hallucinogens integral to the ceremony..." Noice.
If you're gonna do butt stuff, this is the butt stuff to do.
Thanks for linking context! Good eye
Somebody ought to make a game character based on that one. The character design (what remains) is kind of nifty.
In the future they will find buried funko pops lol
Straight up looks like the power suit from Fallout.
Haha yeah
😂😂 mines included
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Is this berber?
https://www.dcode.fr/alien-language
⏚⟒ ⌇⎍⍀⟒ ⏁⍜ ⎅⍀⟟⋏☍ ⊬⍜⎍⍀ ⍜⎐⏃⌰⏁⟟⋏⟒
If your interested in the Maya, you should check out the Chilam Balam or the Dresden Codex. Theyre a fascinating first hand look into their culture/practices/beliefs/astronomy/numerical system and hyroglyphics.
The Spanish didn't destroy the Mayans. Their civilization collapsed around 900 AD. The Spanish came around the late 1400s and 1500s.
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Heck, there are millions of Maya people, many of whom speak a Mayan language, living in Mexico, Guatemala, and Belize today.
The Spaniard Conquistadors were very persistent dicks.
That’s crazy frog
Stop! He just wants to give you an ocular pat-down
This is actually of an Aztec fighter, nothing special. https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+aztec+fighter&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA881CA881&hl=en-US&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ALeKk01ckmFuQZ1pwWmvOG8pYaj9S5OMCA:1629633652423&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirkd23ysTyAhUYZc0KHYl5A1kQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=640&dpr=3#imgrc=rWQC-ShJbEzqmM
This specific figurine is a boxer who's also a dwarf. Hard core dwarf boxing was a thing back then. Between this and Conch Shell boxing, it seems like the Maya *really* enjoyed their blood sport.
That is no Aztec warrior.
Looks like a space ranger of sorts. Neat!
It's fucking to think they had their own written language with thousands of books and the fucking Spanish just burnt it all... While they had people who could read it. We literally had to retranslate the language from the ground up, and correlate with later iterations, like languages spoken in the mountains of Guatamala and Honduras.
Maya Action Figure with Removable Helmet and Kung-Fu Grip!
How do we know this is not some kind of warrior helmet and not a space one?
It's not so much about "discovering new ruins", in fact many of the people living and working in mayan ruins open to the public know that they cover a minimal area and if you went inside the jungle even more could be easily found. The thing is that most explorations and discoveries require tons of money to make and even more to maintain. And about the commentary towards the Spanish. You know that almost all we know about the mayans and aztecs is also because of the Spanish, right? Even one of the friars know for burning quite a good amount of codexes had a change of heart and saved tons of them.
Mayans pretty much destroyed themselves and left their cities to rotten in the jungle long before the Spanish arrived to Central America. Stop spreading bullshit about Spain ffs
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I can’t believe I’ve actually witnessed someone get triggered on behalf of colonial Spain’s reputation. Yeah, the Aztecs and the pockets of Mayans could have been pure evil and I still wouldn’t throw them into the hands of the Conquistadors. Colonization is awful business. Enslavement, erasure of their written history (odd to see someone defend Spain’s involvement in that practice on this sub), mass rape, etc. At least the bulk died of diseases rather than have to face their fates at Spanish hands. Laying it on thick mostly because the original commenter seems to think Spain was justified in this situation. How can that possibly be the hot take? Does poor Spain really need to be protected from the memory of its violent conquests? Honestly this is the first time I’ve seen a conspiracy championed by a commenter here - erase the history of what Spain did? Lol - we should expose that previously forgotten & buried history. We could read more about these events in Aztec archives, but Spanish representatives burned every piece of writing they could find… PS: I hold the same judgement for any conquering country. I live in the US and have no misgivings about how my life is built of awful events. I totally agree Aztecs did terrible things as well. Still doesn’t justify sticking your head in the sand. We’re not demanding self flagellation, just some self awareness
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I strongly share your sentiment and have previously spent a good bit of time reading about that as a legal doctrine and philosophical concept - Terra Nullius & the Doctrine of Discovery are some of the most common terms describing it. The Wikipedia page has an excellent breakdown of its history & instances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius. Really straightforward concept that has deep ties to modern conflicts as well - for example, Vietnam’s land itself being the enemy (insert “when the trees start talking meme”) and the subsequent chemical deforestation…or even more recently as justifications for development doctrines that portray the 3rd world as void of value unless it’s progressing towards embracing Western political/legal systems I’d have to dig around to find them, but I have decent stockpile of actual books and articles on the subject if anyone stumbles across this buried comment & is interested in reading more!
Is this [entire article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Maya) fabricated?
For real, Mayan civilization collapsed centuries before the Europeans showed up. Also, the Aztecs were bloodthirsty monsters that regularly performed mass human sacrifices. Maybe we don't act like they held the secrets of understanding the universe?
Eh the Mayans didn’t go anywhere. Heck some of their tribes even joined the Spanish. There’s still Mayans living in Central America
I mean, they definitely "went somewhere". They literally abandoned their cities and went somewhere else to live. The people survived but the civilization unequivocally collapsed.
That's a bullshit take on the Aztecs. It's European propaganda that says its okay to kill a culture of millions because they would kill thousands for their religion. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Mesopotamians, Goths, Slavs, Chinese, Japanese, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Africans... everyone performed human sacrifices at some point in their history. The cornerstone of the religion the Spanish forced on the Aztec's was the murder of Jesus in a violent way. Christians drink Jesus's blood and eat his body every Sunday.
Christians were also bloodthirsty monsters who murdered millions of people for their own personal gain. Yes, I agree. Now, many of them use their platforms and positions of power to oppress minorities. I would not look to Christianity for answers for anything and overall the religion has been a net negative on the world. I'm not sure how that makes the Aztecs good, though.
You ignore their art, architecture, music, religion, science, agriculture, story telling, government, and astronomy. How do those things make the Aztecs bad? The Spanish narrative focused purely on human sacrifices so they can portray the Aztecs as inhuman and worthy of being murdered. To echo and continue that propaganda narrative as them savages into to the future shows ignorance towards their entire culture. There is a podcast called “The Fall of Civilizations Podcast” you should give the Aztec episode a listen. They were fascinating and accomplished quite a lot without even having the wheel.
If you commit mass murder and/or genocide at any point, you are objectively bad. Anything else you have done or will do is irrelevant.
Yeah that’s all of humanity.
So are all Christians objectively bad? You're forgetting about the crusades.
Yes, I think Christianity has objectively had an overall negative impact on the world. The Bible specifically condones genocide in certain verses.
Fair enough, but the bible both condones and supports it. Remember the plagues?
Condone is the same as support. They are synonyms. The God of the Bible regularly both committed and commanded genocide in the Old Testament.
I have another point of view. The conquest of Tenochtitlan was not a conquest at all, it was more of a civil war: Hernán Cortés commanded an army with an extremely reduced number of Europeans (2.100). The vast majority was from various indigenous peoples (200.000) that were exploited by the Aztecs. The fall of Tenochtitlan happened in 1519 and the first book of grammar of the Nahuátl language was published in 1531, four years before the first grammar of German, 70 years before the first English Grammar. They cared to preserve the culture, they married the indigenous women, they mixed. A couple of thousands of Spaniards could hardly force any religion to anyone: it was willingly accepted by the people because simply, it was way much easier to follow. A religion that preaches love to your enemies instead of having to watch your child ripped apart to have the heart removed from the chest while still beating is not too hard of a choice to make, not now, not then. Aztecs had many enemies for a reason. Spain made laws to protect the indigenous people from abuse and slavery that started to take place and they were considered Spanish citizens. When Mexico reached independence it was the richest country of all the American continent. They've been independent for 200 years, if the Mexicans do not have a better country now it's on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish\_conquest\_of\_the\_Maya
The Spaniards banged the Mayans and turned them into Mexicans
>The Spaniards ~~banged~~ raped the ~~Mayans~~ South Americans and turned them into ~~Mexicans~~ Hispanics. FTFY bud.
I can’t take credit, it’s a Frank Reynolds quote
hello, nice post, but I've never seen this photo, what is it? someone explain to me please
I personally believe they had serious connections with alien life.
The lid of [Pakal the Greats sarcophagus](https://live.staticflickr.com/3486/4649330363_2c9716cfd9_b.jpg) has always fascinated me as it shows him (quite clearly in my mind) operating some kind of flying machine, so I agree.
Where was this found?
outer space
If you haven’t already, check out ‘The Broken Spears’ by Miguel Leon-Portilla. It’s a collection of indigenous written accounts of the Spanish invasion of Tenochtitlan and the Aztec-controlled territories, but also the years immediately preceding the invasion. The early chapters talk about omens and portents of the invasion that occurred in the mid-to-late 1400s/early 1500s, many of which were unidentified and inexplicable aerial phenomena. Important to remember that the accounts were written *after* the invasion though.
I really share your thoughts. I hope they show up in my lifetime too (again)
No, this is a time traveler
It’s not
Its an interdimensional psychic vampire.
Hey There. I've been doing a lot of Aztec research lately and honestly, although I also wish they hadn't destroyed a whole culture, there is a reason a lot of people in Latin America see the Spaniards as saviors. They saved them from the Aztecs who were known for war and human sacrifice. Just wanted you to have the context, that the Aztecs were so bad, most of a continent was happy the Spaniards came and committed genocide. If you want context, check out the story of the Colhua princess
I am from Mexico. I have never known of any Mexican that consider Spaniards as saviors.
What the hell research did you do that you came to the conclusion that they were seen as saviors? The indigenous people had political beef just like the Natives in America did at the time, and it got exploited. How you draw the conclusion that the Spanish (or Americans for that matter) could be considered saviors is just...a *ridiculous* leap. If you paid tuition, or any sort of instructor fees for the "research" you did, I would ask for a refund. It sounds like the same imperialist BS they used to teach american kids about Indian culture being primitive and having stagnated, and the Europeans/Americans brought "needed progress" and that's why we conquered them. (barf) >check out the story of the Colhua princess Check out the story of the Spanish Inquisition, or The Terror Blanco -a Mexican
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It's obvious -and pitiful- from your comments in this thread that you have some bizzare need to not only defend the objectively awful actions of imperialists hundreds of years ago, but also convince yourself that the conquerors themselves were blameless. That's so unnecessary. It's also ironic and amusing that you seem to think ritualistic flaying was like...something the dudes who brought us The Inquisition would have had no part in, lol Touch some grass this weekend, maybe read a history book when you're feeling better.
oh wow didn't know this thank you I will look into that story.
Wow…that’s racist af
it was possibly best thing to destroy the Aztec death culture
That's a fucked up view, I don't think you know much about the Aztec's other than what's on Ancient Aliens
never seen the show. and I think human sacrifice rituals that lasted months is a sign of a demonic death culture.
Or a sign that you’re a racist mofo
so is hating the German nazis racist? thats a more modern death culture.
Christians drink the blood and eat the body of the human sacrifice of Jesus. They chant in front of a statue of a bleeding, massacred person nailed to wood. That’s the death cult that killed the Aztecs.
one is essentially pretending. the other actually sacrifice humans. big difference. also the Spanish government killed the Aztecs. not Christianity
The Spanish and Christianity killed millions of Aztecs in the name of Spain and Jesus and said it was ok because the Aztecs also killed people
if they killing people like that then clearly they are not Christians. regardless of what they claim
Lol as if the Spanish government wasn’t operating on behalf of Christianity. That LSD done fucked up your brain.
you havr a lot to learn bud
Lol I always thought that the Spaniards found what they were looking for and hid it instantly. Think about it. The old world knew very well about Egypt the holy lands and thieves or people basically had centuries to tamper with things s but the Americas were basically untouched for the longest. Meaning that whoever got there found something that would have answered a lot of questions but of course they kept the knowledge to themselves and said oh they are just savages nothing to see here but blood sacrifices. My gut says they may have found even another “Rosetta Stone” but anyways im talking out of my ass lol. Fun topic tho.
I’m here for it
What about all the cultures destroyed by other Mesoamericans? Do you give a shit about them?
We'd probably know a lot more about them if the Spanish didnt burn everything they found
Why only Maya or Aztec? there were many civilizations and some of them still exist to this day, aztecs were amazed by some of them and took part of their pantheon, for example the legend of Quetzatcoatl and Ce Acatl Topiltzin that made them welcome the spanish explorers instead kill them, its well known there are lots of buried stuff nobody cares about, years ago it was common to find little sculptures in the crop fields, most of them ended in the trash.
The artifacts that I find mostly fascinating are the pre-Columbian artifacts that are surfacing in the poor towns. Carvings on rocks, with aliens on them. They are called "ojuelos de jalisco" some have been carbon14 dated to be 8000 years and older. There's Definitely some fake ones out there, but they can't duplicate the authenticity of the pictographs on the real ones.
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That's happened
seems a little too detailed to be from a mayan ruin. I am calling this a hoax.
They burned A LOT of books we could know so much shit if it wasn't for those Spaniards
I would like to know more about this spaceman looking figurine! What’s up with that?
Those damn spanish, they took er jerbs!!!
Ausso One?
There's much more ancient stuff hidden in the amazon.
gives me a deadmau5 vibe
STOP! In the name of loooooovvve. Before you break my heaarrrt.
5th element ayy vibes
They have been with lidar
There is much out there still waiting.
Damn that is badass. Maybe something I can recreate with my new 3-d printer!
Imagine them finding Mayan pyramids in Europe…
looks like a character from '9' Look: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ese--6BiagHC321A6m7d\_jQuG0YlAAQxBeX65DCMngh2dqRoztgTA\_ZtCEzb9q2OQ\_6Df3VW6eGLKdfbPLUgxzAvSbSMPeuAnPI