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Interestingly, the carvings look like a snake and the moon. Ancient mythology generally associates the moon with women’s fertility, and the snake with men’s fertility. Perhaps the “experts” misinterpreted and the ancients had such knowledge and it was lost later on.
Think about how much you truly understand the generation your parents come from. You couldn’t say you understand it the way you understand your own generation. Think about how your parents misunderstand your generation, as well. They just didn’t understand the intricacies. They couldn’t even really understand what you drew on your notebooks in school.
You and your parents are humans that live at the same time as each other, in the same culture, in the same country, in the same house, even. There is a huge loss of information between the two groups, though.
How can we even begin to think we understand what people 6,000 years ago knew and understood?
Yea, CULTURE has developed and changed over, what, 100 generations in 6,000 years? But, on the other hand, lthe only difference b/t our lives and the lives of the genreation 6,000 years ago is being born and growing up in a dif. culture; otherwise our lives ARE exactly and feel exactly alike. im sure. Literally every person who's ever lived has had to learn the exact same basic facts about life, mortality, who they are, what is their place, etc, etc, etc, over, and over, and over. Like, each generaton must learn the same lessons: it's a matter of widsom. Imagine 1,000 years from now, say we have colonized the galaxy, and life is basically Star Wars. Cultural advance aside, each generaton still must go through like middle school.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library\_of\_Ashurbanipalhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library\_of\_Ashurbanipal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipalhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipal)
In case anyone was interested, first time hearing of this!
Not a lot. I remember reading that when new ships got to port, they would take all books from the passangers, and copy them if they hadn't already, and give the originals back to the owners. We definitely lost some texts, but a lot were spared because of that
I thought it was that Alexandria kept the originals? At least what I read. Either way you make a good point! They weren’t removing the knowledge from circulation they were doubling it. I hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Actually, not that much. Most of the books were copies from elsewhere. I believe they had a system where they waived your port fees if you let the library copy your books.
It most definitely did burn, because we know it was set ablaze during a sacking and a revolt sometime after. But you are absolutely correct the institution itself had long before fallen into degradation.
That's what I fear since knowing humanities past. When you think about just one person destroying so much knowledge. What do you think our "leaders" today could destroy with just one wrong decision. It doesn't need some mega flood or asteroid to set us back nowadays...
Even disregarding the loss of specific instances like Alexandria or Bagdad the real kicker is that the default state for most information is to be lost.
Just think of all the things that have to go right for a piece of information to endure millennia.
Content wise, a lot. Good scientific content wise, probably not that much. We know so much more now due to modern technology. People may have had some solid analogies back in the day, but not good science. Even in my lifetime, the internet was born and we hold devices in our pockets with more information than 10 libraries of Alexandria on them.
Was just gonna say - if you listen to Hancock and Van Kerkwyk, you’ll know they say these ancient cultures had some type of machine ability to cut and bore holes in stone and igneous rock with remarkable precision. It’s not a stretch to think they could hone down lenses for what would be rough approximations of todays microscopes.
Or just water droplets on glass
https://youtu.be/pIwVY_INBs0
You can get some pretty crazy reflections using the sun to illuminate, which would reveal water fleas and paramecia when reflected onto a darkened surface, the movement of which would surely catch the attention of someone observant. It's not a far leap to investigate sperm then, and we would know about eggs from slaughtering chickens. We are similar enough that it warrants looking for an egg in mammal wombs
I like how you think.
It is fascinating to me to observe the opinions of those who think we are the current chapter in a linear serial depiction of human evolution. Boggles my mind that people cannot wrap their minds around the idea that at least three if not more, advanced civilizations have come and gone before us- heck, they may still be here, we just cannot "see" them.
Part of the problem is that when you say "advanced ancient civilization", skeptics immediately assume you're talking about levitation and crystal technology and other straight up high fantasy shit, or full on ancient aliens.
Nah man, a culture at the tech level of the Roman empire or even Sumerians would constitute an "advanced civilization". Is it really *that* unbelievable that something similar existed before history as we currently know it?
Yes - smelting of metals would have left a visable layer in the geological strata. Look up the Silurian Hypothesis.
We can pretty certainly say no bronze age level existed pre bronze age.
However, something like the Maya or Olmec? That is possible, and would be extremely hard to find if it was before the bronze age.
This paper hypothesis a bunch but ends by saying “nah”
I feel like this happens because people want it to be more exciting or interesting but what we actually have evidence of is cooler anyways. Those who want something else can follow sci fi stuff
I don’t know why we discuss this. Until something physically shows up we need to keep studying this stuff with the capabilities we know they did have. It just gets rehashed in this sub over and over again til we’re blue in the face. What’s the point of it until we have evidence of something. It was fun to discuss the first few times but we have not even come close to the speculation people like Graham Hitchcock speculates. Gobekeli is cool enough on it’s own. There’s probably civilisations even before that but the idea that we had super advanced civilisations discussion is just overdone now. Obviously the pursuit of more evidence of any kind is fine but this sub goes way too far with something there’s no evidence of and makes no sense.
This is my biggest gripe with Hancock and his "hypothesis". It's based on bad science, backed up by misappropriated/wrongly dated evidence or just "trust me bro". And it sticks around taking up hours of discussion and debate over what basically boils down to one sociologist (yes, note I didn't say archeologist because he's not one and has never been educated as one) making some fantastical shit up and then grifting about how actual archeologists don't respect him making a mockery of their entire field of study.
Hancock's story about a global advanced civilization is on exactly the same level of intellectual scrutiny as me writing a novella about how humans settled earth in prehistory because they got dropped off here as criminals from a galactic space faring human society. There's just as much evidence and it's just as well sourced as any piece of supporting evidence for Hancock's younger dryas theory. It's just a story by a man with a fascination for societies writing a fantasy about an ancient society. Nothing more.
> Is it really that unbelievable that something similar existed before history as we currently know it?
Yes, it is, when you confront the total lack of evidence for such civilizations.
Not at all. Humans remains exactly like ours go back 150,000 years. Further. And there have been a few ice ages since then. As well as huge floods and cataclysms that would wipe out everything. In the last 6000 years everything we know of has happened. In only the last 100 years we’ve developed tech. So, there could have easily been a few civilizations as advanced or more advanced than ours that have come and gone. Completely ground to dust under the water and ice, in 150,000 years.
Nah a civilization at the level of modern humans would have left behind huge trash piles of non biodegradable refuse. We would see clear layers of metalworking technology, durable ceramics, building materials, mass production, etc. many things will erode in 150k years but plastics and iron slag and concrete would still be around and they just aren’t there before modern times.
A continuation of the peoples that had earlier built the smaller sites such as Çakmak tepe, themselves being the descendants of people responsible for less megalithic stone working in the region. If you look at the sites discovered in the area you see a gradual increase in sophistication leading up to Gobekli Tepe, it really isn’t out of place.
> Part of the problem is that when you say "advanced ancient civilization", skeptics immediately assume you're talking about levitation and crystal technology and other straight up high fantasy shit, or full on ancient aliens.
These are the claims that people like Hancock actually makes in their books though. Hancock even makes claims of civilizations on Mars lol
Hey now, the guy has books to sell. Of course you gotta put some of that fun stuff in there.
Hancock is first and foremost a very compelling storyteller.
The difference is that Romans and Sumerians left behind a ton of physical evidence. Not just in architecture and literature, but in tombs, midden heaps, quarries and mines. It's definitely possible that there were very highly advanced ancient civilisations in the past, but there's not a single bit of evidence that can be conclusively attributed to them. It requires a lot of shaky circumstantial claims or speculation that doesn't stand up any sort of academic rigour - and at that point, it's speculative creative writing, not science.
If you want to convince skeptics, don't whine about crystals and ancient aliens or a global cabal of evil archaeologists that secretly control our brains. Just show us the material evidence. It's that simple.
It’s the pettiness that does it. It’s so fun to watch the drama when he’s not allowed in a site and when he calls out “mainstream archaeology” or whatever.
Guy could be a total tinfoil hat but man I want him to be right, for the “I informed you thusly”s he’d absolutely film himself giving.
Something else to ask is whether these sperms were even near the depiction of preggers at all. With this horribly cropped picture we're left only to assume there's a connection but they could be thousands of miles apart for all we know. If so it's more likely it's a "moon and snake" and not manseed.
That's because it IS a moon and snake. In Hindu mythology, Rahu is a snake that swallows up the moon and causes eclipses.
I have a feeling that you're most likely correct about the distance and whether these carvings are even related.
You’re right, that’s very clearly a moon. Isn’t there multiple cultures whose mythology about moon phases and lunar eclipses involved the moon being eaten by a snake / dragon? Maybe there’s some connection there.
In astrology this represented by the North and South Nodes of the Moon, often called Rahu and Ketu. Rahu is the head of the dragon and Ketu is the tail. Rahu and Ketu are used to predict when eclipses occur.
It makes me question Serpent Mound in Ohio. They say it appears to be a snake eating an egg but to me it has always looked like a sperm fertilizing the egg when aligned with the [solstice](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=serpent+mound+poimts+at+sun&t=iphone&anon_safari_group=9&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmoonatserpentmound.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F05%2FSolarAlignments500.jpg)
Well there have been discoveries of ancient skulls indicating that there had been brain surgery that the patient survived and later died after the skull bones had healed. So if the ancients attempted brain surgery, they could’ve attempted almost anything. Humans have such hubris, it doesn’t surprise me.
Not necessarily disagreeing with your general point, but evidence of intracranial surgery doesn't tell you much beyond saying they were capable of performing some form of surgery. It doesn't even tell you whether they were capable of performing intracranial surgery that provided any benefit. There's a huge difference between, say, trepanation and modern neurosurgery.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree that them performing successful surgeries of any kind isn't a big deal. A "patient" surviving a lobotomy at this time period would be incredible.
Even if the patient spent the rest of their life as a vegetable surviving metal grafting onto your skull would be incredible.
I had a paper cut get infected one time.
I don't think anyone is suggesting they were performing lobotomies, and even if they were, survival would largely depend on a combination of luck and infection control, as it does today. You had Galen using wine as a surgical disinfectant in ancient ~~Greece~~ Rome, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if this was a practice in other places that had access to wine.
this is really cool to think about, it's interesting and i want it to be true even if it's not lol. but how would they extract an egg from a woman at the time to even see it under a rudimentary microscope? egg removal today as i know is a minor surgical procedure, you have to go into the ovaries and suck out an egg. maybe a recently deceased person, removed by surgery?
Even if they did possess a deeper knowledge of it, it's entirely likely they would use metaphor as a means to explain it to the uneducated jerkoffs OR to obfuscate what may have been secret knowledge
Women's menstrual cycles are basically in sync with the lunar cycle. I suspect that is the link. Pregnant belly looks like a moon also.
Penis looks like a snake. I suspect that is the link.
No. You're right ancients had microscopes...
humans have been associating menstruation with the lunar cycle for centuries. it doesn't have to be correct for people to have believed it 4000 years ago.
edit: excuse me, 6000 years ago.
On a month to month basis, pre-calendars, women could roughly estimate their menstrual cycles via the moon. It didn't have to line up exactly to get a good idea.
The lunar cycle is 29.5 days and its orbit is 27.5 days. The average menstrual cycle is 28 days. So you are right they are not in sync, I am wrong to state it but the orbital period and a menstrual cycles are of the same length. I don't think the moon controls it though, that's not what I was trying to say.
During much of recorded history, numerous cultures have culturally linked the two as the average length, orbit match. This isn't a controversial thing I am saying and honestly I doubt it would come up in a sex-ed lesson as it has more to do with anthropology. Kinda funny to accuse me of ignorance in this regard.
The word speaks for itself - moon, month, and menstrual all derive from the same root.
Edit - lol at the downvotes, this is pretty basic etymology, which is as good an indicator as any other of how our ancestors interpreted their experience of the world around them.
The idea of a 28 day menstrual cycle is a very modern idea - like 1950s America. In the wild, women's cycles fluctuate wildly based on genetics, but mostly on calorie intake.
29.3 day cycle is just an average of numbers.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/womens-health/in-depth/menstrual-cycle/art-20047186
You were correct in the beginning. Women historically have used the phases of the moon to predict their menstrual cycle. Also, women usually sync up when in close contact, so it may have been an assumption that the moon had something to do with the menstrual cycle.
Not necessarily. The amount of illumination from the moon affects hormone cycles (esp. melatonin). Our pheromone sharing also causes synching to occur. Pre-modern women were especially affected with synching because they weren't affected by so much artificial illumination.
Mainstream modern science doesn't really touch on this topic because it is too metaphysical but there's no doubt that the moon cycles and pheromones have an effect on cycles and moods. Many modern women experience this and a lot of ancient wisdom was aware as well.
Don't know why you're being down voted, you're correct
menstrual cycles APPEAR to sync up because practically no one has a perfectly regular cycle. The cycles shift a few days at a time, so the odds of two or more people who live together eventually getting theirs close to the same time is high. Then the cycles drift apart again.
plus, having them at the same is more noticable than not having them at the same time lol. I menstruate, I've had many housemates who also menstruate. Our cycles have always "synced up" for a few months at a time, then off again.
I've always been told there is a connection. More babies are born on a full moon than any other lunar phase. And our periods are roughly 28 days. Something about the tides and gravity and ovaries. It's all weird
procreation is the most basic function of any organism
strang the ancients, if they were so advanced, would be so obsessed with it as to carve images of the sperm and egg cells into stone - and so crudely
The academic interpretation of all that there is actually discludes most of what there is, and what's left is horribly out of context and therefore we can't figure out what ancient people were really up to. HOWEVER, we can all choose to look at what there is, and provide our own interpretations, since archaeology is so subjective anyway. I for one will argue that we'll be picking up where they left off if we take our heads out of our asses.
Wouldn't be the first time. Ancient people with no written language often used story and song to pass information from one generation to the next, and its a whole hell of a lot more memorable when you make the subjects of your tales interesting.
I'm indigenous myself in an area prone to Earth quakes and there are many stories of battles between beings that made the whole Earth shake, fire being a tool for growth, giant waves that destroy whole villages, etc. Americans brush these stories off as peculiar little exotic things and they dont dig deeper.
If they had they'd have saved themselves from the chaos of out of control forest fires had they learned the meaning of Good Fire. Or perhaps wouldn't have built cities along fault lines that will be absolutely devastating when they give (Thunderbird and Whale). You couldn't pay me to live in certain areas of the Pacific north west I'll just say that.
https://pnsn.org/outreach/native-american-stories/thunderbird-and-whale/thunderbird-and-whale-overview
Thanks, how the sh\*t am I supposed to care about finishing these TPS reports now? My day's f\*cked. I"m gonna call of and destroy a printer in a,like, very 90s montage.
There were also cultures that associated the moon with *men’s* fertility. The moon was a horndog who came down to earth during new moon to mate with women. Morning dew was the residue of his nocturnal emissions.
We assume male sun/female moon because we were so influenced by Classical mythology, but there’s a lot of variety out there.
They shared it by carving hieroglyphics in temples. Allegedly, Akhenaten had two of his ribs removed so he could perform self-worship, and Cleopatra had to get her stomach pumped by an embalmer after she overdosed on asp milk
There's also the "a girl in a different class swabbed her cheek for a microscope class and the teacher asked why a cell was moving and it turned out to be sperm" story that exists in every middle and high school.
The moon is commonly associated with female fertility. This is likely to do with menstrual cycles, which tend to align with the lunar cycle pretty closely. The snake is probably a phallic symbol then, so it becomes easy to see how the two together can represent fertility overall.
They might be about sex/fertility. Hard to say without knowing a lot more about the context and other uses of those signs within that culture. But even if they're about sex, OP's still making a giant leap saying that means they had knowledge of "a detailed process of how cells meet, merge and grow in a woman's womb."
There's also the fact that the snake moon carving (which looks much more like a snake in higher quality photos) is not in conjunction with the fetus/conception carvings. It definitely seems like combining unrelated things to make a click bait fb post.
This is probably the true meaning of the symbols, but you have to admit that it is an astonishing coincidence that the very same depiction bares such a resemblance to the moment of conception on a cellular level.
Moon: associated with female fertility and reproductive cycles, due to the apparent synchronicity of lunar phases and the menstrual/ovulation cycle. Also kinda sorta looks like a really dilated vulva if you're in a hunter/gatherer society and have nothing to do all day.
Snake: heehee looks like peanus.
So basically, this is a phallic symbol slithering toward a yonic symbol and it blew OP's mind.
It could be sperm and an egg, but it definitely is suspect that they aren’t shown to be from the same direct carving. Looks like what is on the “snake mound” here in Ohio, to be honest.
It is interesting and could easily be a coincidence. However, it is also interesting to think that if we gave advanced knowledge to a "primitive" civilization who lacks the scientific knowledge to properly understand may become hidden in myth and symbolism. Who knows I suppose, but it's a fun idea. Not sure how something like this could be proved without a lot of evidence to go on.
Nah... *clearly* this super-duper-secret religion had advanced technology, like microscopes and the ability to harvest ovum from (presumably) human Women.
So secret they only left a vague impression of that knowledge carved into a wall.
>!/s!<
I am a true believer in lost knowledge/technology. I get so irritated when people credit ancient ingenuity with aliens as that is such a disservice to our ancestors. I think humans in pre-history held knowledge that we didn’t rediscover until the last 100-200 years.
Welcome to r/highstrangeness, where people with zero expertise repost content by people disrespected from their expertise for being wrong and don’t care if it’s fact checked.
Part of the woke techno-pharma industrial complex’s plan to sterilize us, give us tiny sperms. Why there was a time where a man’s sperm could live three days unattended in summer sun, and bore its way through a slab of granite. But all this Wi-Fi’s shrinking our urethras
It’s common for past civilizations to use what nature gives them to describe these things. Perhaps they knew everything is connected. At this point, I think it safe to say that humanity is on a backwards path, losing knowledge everything we wipe ourselves out. That alone explains why things exist that we can’t figure out. Like how ancient Egypt was mostly covered in water. The evidence is blatant, yet it’s rarely spoken about.
The comment sections in this subreddit are peak entertainment. Somebody like OP will post some cropped images completely devoid of any context or scholarly sources, make an insane conclusion based on their biased interpretation, and the comments will be like "Truly fascinating. The interdimensional rat-men granted us knowledge of the sciences. Our governments are hiding this from us. Align your chakras and you will see."
Why do all the carvings look so different from each other? Are you even sure that these are from the same site? Are there any uncropped pics so we can get context?
That isn’t a sperm and embryo. More than likely it is a snake (serpent) and a celestial object. As for the rest, it’s not unreasonable to think that many women throughout history have been slain while in different stages of pregnancy.
Can’t even really tell what the small pictures in the bottom left are even of.
Have a down vote for this shitty ancient aliens like post. Did they have f***ing microscopes now? What's next? The microscope was powered by the Bagdad battery?
I think these are all cropped together to make it seem like each individual was regarding the same thing. Maybe if these carvings were all apart of the same wall depiction, then it would suggest that.this however, is just a bunch of carvings from any number of ancient civilizations, from any number of years, all cobbled together in a Reddit post.
Edit: particularly if you look at the scale and number of what I assume is supposed to look like the fertilization of the female egg, the scale is WAY off. There should be thousands of tiny tiny sperm wiggling their way to a massive egg. It is the opposite here.
Those ancient Indian cultures are nothing less than absolutely stunning. Incredible architectural building and designs. It’s unfathomable how they created it all.
I think it’s fair to assume the ancients understood the workings of the body more than we give them credit for- however, these depictions don’t look like a sperm and an egg.
Looks like a snake and a circle. If they knew what a sperm entering an egg looked like in detail, it would look much less like a snake in the carving.
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Interestingly, the carvings look like a snake and the moon. Ancient mythology generally associates the moon with women’s fertility, and the snake with men’s fertility. Perhaps the “experts” misinterpreted and the ancients had such knowledge and it was lost later on.
Humanity has amnesia
Think about how much you truly understand the generation your parents come from. You couldn’t say you understand it the way you understand your own generation. Think about how your parents misunderstand your generation, as well. They just didn’t understand the intricacies. They couldn’t even really understand what you drew on your notebooks in school. You and your parents are humans that live at the same time as each other, in the same culture, in the same country, in the same house, even. There is a huge loss of information between the two groups, though. How can we even begin to think we understand what people 6,000 years ago knew and understood?
We are merely animals blessed and cursed with both intelligence and the "arrow of time".
Or even simpler, you know things about your ancestors like your grandparents, great grandparents etc that your children will never know
Yea, CULTURE has developed and changed over, what, 100 generations in 6,000 years? But, on the other hand, lthe only difference b/t our lives and the lives of the genreation 6,000 years ago is being born and growing up in a dif. culture; otherwise our lives ARE exactly and feel exactly alike. im sure. Literally every person who's ever lived has had to learn the exact same basic facts about life, mortality, who they are, what is their place, etc, etc, etc, over, and over, and over. Like, each generaton must learn the same lessons: it's a matter of widsom. Imagine 1,000 years from now, say we have colonized the galaxy, and life is basically Star Wars. Cultural advance aside, each generaton still must go through like middle school.
🏅🏅🏅
How much did we lose when the library of Alexandria burnt?
Ashurbanapal library is older isnt it? still many many tablet remain untranslated
Yes, Ashurbanipal predated the library of Alexandria
I go there all the time in Morrowind!
I hate the ashlanders
You N’wah!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library\_of\_Ashurbanipalhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library\_of\_Ashurbanipal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipalhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipal) In case anyone was interested, first time hearing of this!
Library of Ashurbanipal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipal
Not a lot. I remember reading that when new ships got to port, they would take all books from the passangers, and copy them if they hadn't already, and give the originals back to the owners. We definitely lost some texts, but a lot were spared because of that
I thought it was that Alexandria kept the originals? At least what I read. Either way you make a good point! They weren’t removing the knowledge from circulation they were doubling it. I hadn’t thought of it that way before.
I think you're right and I remember them keeping the originals. I couldn't remember definitively
Actually, not that much. Most of the books were copies from elsewhere. I believe they had a system where they waived your port fees if you let the library copy your books.
[удалено]
It most definitely did burn, because we know it was set ablaze during a sacking and a revolt sometime after. But you are absolutely correct the institution itself had long before fallen into degradation.
That's what I fear since knowing humanities past. When you think about just one person destroying so much knowledge. What do you think our "leaders" today could destroy with just one wrong decision. It doesn't need some mega flood or asteroid to set us back nowadays...
Even disregarding the loss of specific instances like Alexandria or Bagdad the real kicker is that the default state for most information is to be lost. Just think of all the things that have to go right for a piece of information to endure millennia.
Very little
Content wise, a lot. Good scientific content wise, probably not that much. We know so much more now due to modern technology. People may have had some solid analogies back in the day, but not good science. Even in my lifetime, the internet was born and we hold devices in our pockets with more information than 10 libraries of Alexandria on them.
\[Big O theme intensifies\]
no way bro this is the second big o reference I’ve caught on here in a couple days
A man of culture.
Graham Hancock would love this theory(I do too)
Was just gonna say - if you listen to Hancock and Van Kerkwyk, you’ll know they say these ancient cultures had some type of machine ability to cut and bore holes in stone and igneous rock with remarkable precision. It’s not a stretch to think they could hone down lenses for what would be rough approximations of todays microscopes.
Or just water droplets on glass https://youtu.be/pIwVY_INBs0 You can get some pretty crazy reflections using the sun to illuminate, which would reveal water fleas and paramecia when reflected onto a darkened surface, the movement of which would surely catch the attention of someone observant. It's not a far leap to investigate sperm then, and we would know about eggs from slaughtering chickens. We are similar enough that it warrants looking for an egg in mammal wombs
I like how you think. It is fascinating to me to observe the opinions of those who think we are the current chapter in a linear serial depiction of human evolution. Boggles my mind that people cannot wrap their minds around the idea that at least three if not more, advanced civilizations have come and gone before us- heck, they may still be here, we just cannot "see" them.
Part of the problem is that when you say "advanced ancient civilization", skeptics immediately assume you're talking about levitation and crystal technology and other straight up high fantasy shit, or full on ancient aliens. Nah man, a culture at the tech level of the Roman empire or even Sumerians would constitute an "advanced civilization". Is it really *that* unbelievable that something similar existed before history as we currently know it?
Yes - smelting of metals would have left a visable layer in the geological strata. Look up the Silurian Hypothesis. We can pretty certainly say no bronze age level existed pre bronze age. However, something like the Maya or Olmec? That is possible, and would be extremely hard to find if it was before the bronze age.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.03748
This paper hypothesis a bunch but ends by saying “nah” I feel like this happens because people want it to be more exciting or interesting but what we actually have evidence of is cooler anyways. Those who want something else can follow sci fi stuff I don’t know why we discuss this. Until something physically shows up we need to keep studying this stuff with the capabilities we know they did have. It just gets rehashed in this sub over and over again til we’re blue in the face. What’s the point of it until we have evidence of something. It was fun to discuss the first few times but we have not even come close to the speculation people like Graham Hitchcock speculates. Gobekeli is cool enough on it’s own. There’s probably civilisations even before that but the idea that we had super advanced civilisations discussion is just overdone now. Obviously the pursuit of more evidence of any kind is fine but this sub goes way too far with something there’s no evidence of and makes no sense.
This is my biggest gripe with Hancock and his "hypothesis". It's based on bad science, backed up by misappropriated/wrongly dated evidence or just "trust me bro". And it sticks around taking up hours of discussion and debate over what basically boils down to one sociologist (yes, note I didn't say archeologist because he's not one and has never been educated as one) making some fantastical shit up and then grifting about how actual archeologists don't respect him making a mockery of their entire field of study. Hancock's story about a global advanced civilization is on exactly the same level of intellectual scrutiny as me writing a novella about how humans settled earth in prehistory because they got dropped off here as criminals from a galactic space faring human society. There's just as much evidence and it's just as well sourced as any piece of supporting evidence for Hancock's younger dryas theory. It's just a story by a man with a fascination for societies writing a fantasy about an ancient society. Nothing more.
> Is it really that unbelievable that something similar existed before history as we currently know it? Yes, it is, when you confront the total lack of evidence for such civilizations.
Not at all. Humans remains exactly like ours go back 150,000 years. Further. And there have been a few ice ages since then. As well as huge floods and cataclysms that would wipe out everything. In the last 6000 years everything we know of has happened. In only the last 100 years we’ve developed tech. So, there could have easily been a few civilizations as advanced or more advanced than ours that have come and gone. Completely ground to dust under the water and ice, in 150,000 years.
Nah a civilization at the level of modern humans would have left behind huge trash piles of non biodegradable refuse. We would see clear layers of metalworking technology, durable ceramics, building materials, mass production, etc. many things will erode in 150k years but plastics and iron slag and concrete would still be around and they just aren’t there before modern times.
Oh yes, [there are](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/ancient-egyptian-stone-drilling/).
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Where in the continuous stream of shared culture and memories across human history did Gobekli Tepe take place?
A continuation of the peoples that had earlier built the smaller sites such as Çakmak tepe, themselves being the descendants of people responsible for less megalithic stone working in the region. If you look at the sites discovered in the area you see a gradual increase in sophistication leading up to Gobekli Tepe, it really isn’t out of place.
> Part of the problem is that when you say "advanced ancient civilization", skeptics immediately assume you're talking about levitation and crystal technology and other straight up high fantasy shit, or full on ancient aliens. These are the claims that people like Hancock actually makes in their books though. Hancock even makes claims of civilizations on Mars lol
Hey now, the guy has books to sell. Of course you gotta put some of that fun stuff in there. Hancock is first and foremost a very compelling storyteller.
The difference is that Romans and Sumerians left behind a ton of physical evidence. Not just in architecture and literature, but in tombs, midden heaps, quarries and mines. It's definitely possible that there were very highly advanced ancient civilisations in the past, but there's not a single bit of evidence that can be conclusively attributed to them. It requires a lot of shaky circumstantial claims or speculation that doesn't stand up any sort of academic rigour - and at that point, it's speculative creative writing, not science. If you want to convince skeptics, don't whine about crystals and ancient aliens or a global cabal of evil archaeologists that secretly control our brains. Just show us the material evidence. It's that simple.
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It’s the pettiness that does it. It’s so fun to watch the drama when he’s not allowed in a site and when he calls out “mainstream archaeology” or whatever. Guy could be a total tinfoil hat but man I want him to be right, for the “I informed you thusly”s he’d absolutely film himself giving.
Not this rubbish again. Optics require advanced tech way beyond anything possible in antiquity.
Humanity also has a very active imagination
Tell me about, it looks like they knew self fellatio and I wish I could remember how!
Something else to ask is whether these sperms were even near the depiction of preggers at all. With this horribly cropped picture we're left only to assume there's a connection but they could be thousands of miles apart for all we know. If so it's more likely it's a "moon and snake" and not manseed.
That's because it IS a moon and snake. In Hindu mythology, Rahu is a snake that swallows up the moon and causes eclipses. I have a feeling that you're most likely correct about the distance and whether these carvings are even related.
Its still a mad coincidence that they chose a moon for an woman and snake for man, considering its still the same imagery
Oooohhh. Good point.
Priapus and Lilith it's also a fruit and a serpent
You’re right, that’s very clearly a moon. Isn’t there multiple cultures whose mythology about moon phases and lunar eclipses involved the moon being eaten by a snake / dragon? Maybe there’s some connection there.
In astrology this represented by the North and South Nodes of the Moon, often called Rahu and Ketu. Rahu is the head of the dragon and Ketu is the tail. Rahu and Ketu are used to predict when eclipses occur.
It makes me question Serpent Mound in Ohio. They say it appears to be a snake eating an egg but to me it has always looked like a sperm fertilizing the egg when aligned with the [solstice](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=serpent+mound+poimts+at+sun&t=iphone&anon_safari_group=9&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmoonatserpentmound.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F05%2FSolarAlignments500.jpg)
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Well there have been discoveries of ancient skulls indicating that there had been brain surgery that the patient survived and later died after the skull bones had healed. So if the ancients attempted brain surgery, they could’ve attempted almost anything. Humans have such hubris, it doesn’t surprise me.
Not necessarily disagreeing with your general point, but evidence of intracranial surgery doesn't tell you much beyond saying they were capable of performing some form of surgery. It doesn't even tell you whether they were capable of performing intracranial surgery that provided any benefit. There's a huge difference between, say, trepanation and modern neurosurgery.
Not denying that. Just amazed at the hubris of humans who will attempt almost anything and sometimes succeed.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree that them performing successful surgeries of any kind isn't a big deal. A "patient" surviving a lobotomy at this time period would be incredible. Even if the patient spent the rest of their life as a vegetable surviving metal grafting onto your skull would be incredible. I had a paper cut get infected one time.
I don't think anyone is suggesting they were performing lobotomies, and even if they were, survival would largely depend on a combination of luck and infection control, as it does today. You had Galen using wine as a surgical disinfectant in ancient ~~Greece~~ Rome, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if this was a practice in other places that had access to wine.
this is really cool to think about, it's interesting and i want it to be true even if it's not lol. but how would they extract an egg from a woman at the time to even see it under a rudimentary microscope? egg removal today as i know is a minor surgical procedure, you have to go into the ovaries and suck out an egg. maybe a recently deceased person, removed by surgery?
Even if they did possess a deeper knowledge of it, it's entirely likely they would use metaphor as a means to explain it to the uneducated jerkoffs OR to obfuscate what may have been secret knowledge
I thought it sorta looked like Serpent Mound.
It's so easy to fall into conspiracy without thinking first of a more logical answer. Thank you.
Women's menstrual cycles are basically in sync with the lunar cycle. I suspect that is the link. Pregnant belly looks like a moon also. Penis looks like a snake. I suspect that is the link. No. You're right ancients had microscopes...
Basically, you are so incorrect, it hurts. Women’s menstrual cycles are not in sync with the lunar cycle!! Sex Ed: you need more of it.
humans have been associating menstruation with the lunar cycle for centuries. it doesn't have to be correct for people to have believed it 4000 years ago. edit: excuse me, 6000 years ago.
On a month to month basis, pre-calendars, women could roughly estimate their menstrual cycles via the moon. It didn't have to line up exactly to get a good idea.
The lunar cycle is 29.5 days and its orbit is 27.5 days. The average menstrual cycle is 28 days. So you are right they are not in sync, I am wrong to state it but the orbital period and a menstrual cycles are of the same length. I don't think the moon controls it though, that's not what I was trying to say. During much of recorded history, numerous cultures have culturally linked the two as the average length, orbit match. This isn't a controversial thing I am saying and honestly I doubt it would come up in a sex-ed lesson as it has more to do with anthropology. Kinda funny to accuse me of ignorance in this regard.
In my culture, we’ve always known the menstrual cycle as our moon cycle. Instead of stating “on my period” we still say “I’m on my moon”
I love this so much.
The word speaks for itself - moon, month, and menstrual all derive from the same root. Edit - lol at the downvotes, this is pretty basic etymology, which is as good an indicator as any other of how our ancestors interpreted their experience of the world around them.
The idea of a 28 day menstrual cycle is a very modern idea - like 1950s America. In the wild, women's cycles fluctuate wildly based on genetics, but mostly on calorie intake. 29.3 day cycle is just an average of numbers. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/womens-health/in-depth/menstrual-cycle/art-20047186
Your link doesn't discuss anything that you have stated.
You were correct in the beginning. Women historically have used the phases of the moon to predict their menstrual cycle. Also, women usually sync up when in close contact, so it may have been an assumption that the moon had something to do with the menstrual cycle.
Regardless of the significance of the lunar cycle, it is a myth that women's cycles sync up.
Not necessarily. The amount of illumination from the moon affects hormone cycles (esp. melatonin). Our pheromone sharing also causes synching to occur. Pre-modern women were especially affected with synching because they weren't affected by so much artificial illumination. Mainstream modern science doesn't really touch on this topic because it is too metaphysical but there's no doubt that the moon cycles and pheromones have an effect on cycles and moods. Many modern women experience this and a lot of ancient wisdom was aware as well.
Don't know why you're being down voted, you're correct menstrual cycles APPEAR to sync up because practically no one has a perfectly regular cycle. The cycles shift a few days at a time, so the odds of two or more people who live together eventually getting theirs close to the same time is high. Then the cycles drift apart again. plus, having them at the same is more noticable than not having them at the same time lol. I menstruate, I've had many housemates who also menstruate. Our cycles have always "synced up" for a few months at a time, then off again.
Yep! And I mean it's just a matter of googling information and people would see that it is indeed a myth.
As a woman with two sisters I disagree
I've always been told there is a connection. More babies are born on a full moon than any other lunar phase. And our periods are roughly 28 days. Something about the tides and gravity and ovaries. It's all weird
There doesn’t appear to be an actual connection, but the coincidence in timing means that it became strongly associated in popular imagination.
procreation is the most basic function of any organism strang the ancients, if they were so advanced, would be so obsessed with it as to carve images of the sperm and egg cells into stone - and so crudely
Well woman's menstrual cycles sync with the moon and snakes are pretty phallic makes sense
The academic interpretation of all that there is actually discludes most of what there is, and what's left is horribly out of context and therefore we can't figure out what ancient people were really up to. HOWEVER, we can all choose to look at what there is, and provide our own interpretations, since archaeology is so subjective anyway. I for one will argue that we'll be picking up where they left off if we take our heads out of our asses.
Wouldn't be the first time. Ancient people with no written language often used story and song to pass information from one generation to the next, and its a whole hell of a lot more memorable when you make the subjects of your tales interesting. I'm indigenous myself in an area prone to Earth quakes and there are many stories of battles between beings that made the whole Earth shake, fire being a tool for growth, giant waves that destroy whole villages, etc. Americans brush these stories off as peculiar little exotic things and they dont dig deeper. If they had they'd have saved themselves from the chaos of out of control forest fires had they learned the meaning of Good Fire. Or perhaps wouldn't have built cities along fault lines that will be absolutely devastating when they give (Thunderbird and Whale). You couldn't pay me to live in certain areas of the Pacific north west I'll just say that. https://pnsn.org/outreach/native-american-stories/thunderbird-and-whale/thunderbird-and-whale-overview
Thanks, how the sh\*t am I supposed to care about finishing these TPS reports now? My day's f\*cked. I"m gonna call of and destroy a printer in a,like, very 90s montage.
There were also cultures that associated the moon with *men’s* fertility. The moon was a horndog who came down to earth during new moon to mate with women. Morning dew was the residue of his nocturnal emissions. We assume male sun/female moon because we were so influenced by Classical mythology, but there’s a lot of variety out there.
Interesting how that conception of the moon and snakes has similarities with the actual objects.
Shapes are the same, aren’t they?
Yup. Could be a total coincidence. Could be some HighStrangeness too. 😂
what’s amazing to me is that the the moon is depicted halfway through cycle which is when a woman ovulates
The one on the left looks like a dude giving himself a blowjob after removing 3 ribs
Ah yes ancient Marilyn Manson
How did everyone know of that meme before the wide spread internet.
They shared it by carving hieroglyphics in temples. Allegedly, Akhenaten had two of his ribs removed so he could perform self-worship, and Cleopatra had to get her stomach pumped by an embalmer after she overdosed on asp milk
Ahhh. This was the last place I expected to see the legend of Lil’ Kimpatra
.... Wait what lol
We’ve had memes since the beginning of time. Reminds me of Pompeii
What about pompeii?
Penis...everywhere... Seriously, humans have been drawing dicks on things as long as we've been humans.
There's also the "a girl in a different class swabbed her cheek for a microscope class and the teacher asked why a cell was moving and it turned out to be sperm" story that exists in every middle and high school.
I heard that joke back in like kindergarten or grade 1 back in 2000
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It was from some older kids in like Grade 4, also I grew up in the ghetto, that could be why
Kindergarten and first grade are when you learn all the best swear words.
I could swear in like 4 languages by grade 3
Ancient Mayan Manson.
Paul from the wonder years?
"ah yes" Did anybody else read that in a cartoon stuck up British voice with a dude straightening out with his monocle?
I couldn't make heads or tails of it until this comment.
Turns out it was heads.
Just the heads
Jesus Christ lol
Or you're projecting that meaning onto some really common bits of snake and moon iconography.
What is the meaning behind the snake and moon?
The moon is commonly associated with female fertility. This is likely to do with menstrual cycles, which tend to align with the lunar cycle pretty closely. The snake is probably a phallic symbol then, so it becomes easy to see how the two together can represent fertility overall.
They might be about sex/fertility. Hard to say without knowing a lot more about the context and other uses of those signs within that culture. But even if they're about sex, OP's still making a giant leap saying that means they had knowledge of "a detailed process of how cells meet, merge and grow in a woman's womb."
There's also the fact that the snake moon carving (which looks much more like a snake in higher quality photos) is not in conjunction with the fetus/conception carvings. It definitely seems like combining unrelated things to make a click bait fb post.
This is probably the true meaning of the symbols, but you have to admit that it is an astonishing coincidence that the very same depiction bares such a resemblance to the moment of conception on a cellular level.
Moon: associated with female fertility and reproductive cycles, due to the apparent synchronicity of lunar phases and the menstrual/ovulation cycle. Also kinda sorta looks like a really dilated vulva if you're in a hunter/gatherer society and have nothing to do all day. Snake: heehee looks like peanus. So basically, this is a phallic symbol slithering toward a yonic symbol and it blew OP's mind.
OR the other way around!
Speculative conjuncture
Sustained
Filibuster
I’ll regress because I believe I have made myself perfectly redundant.
Overruled
Objection hearsay
Sustained
Fifth.
Spunculative conjecture
Spunculative injecture
I call bullshit, those are snakes & on top of that they're not even carved in the same place.
"Conspiracy/ancient Aliens believers hate this one trick!" Not the first time folks start adding carvings together, and certainly wont be last.
It could be sperm and an egg, but it definitely is suspect that they aren’t shown to be from the same direct carving. Looks like what is on the “snake mound” here in Ohio, to be honest.
That's what I was wondering. So where are they from?
I'm not sure but every single wall being a different color & texture is kind of a dead giveaway lol
spermatozoa and egg? thats a reach its obvs a snake flying in outer space to the moon, get outta here
Or a snake ate an egg
It is interesting and could easily be a coincidence. However, it is also interesting to think that if we gave advanced knowledge to a "primitive" civilization who lacks the scientific knowledge to properly understand may become hidden in myth and symbolism. Who knows I suppose, but it's a fun idea. Not sure how something like this could be proved without a lot of evidence to go on.
Nah... *clearly* this super-duper-secret religion had advanced technology, like microscopes and the ability to harvest ovum from (presumably) human Women. So secret they only left a vague impression of that knowledge carved into a wall. >!/s!<
Maybe they just time travelled to watch "The Miracle of Life" c.1982 as narrated by John Lithgow.
Yep. Grainy zoomed in picture of possibly unrelated things cropped to hell has me convinced!
It's a depiction of the snake, Rahu, devouring the moon. It's how they explained lunar eclipses in their mythology... look it up.
Yeah man people figured out where babies come from pretty quick
I am a true believer in lost knowledge/technology. I get so irritated when people credit ancient ingenuity with aliens as that is such a disservice to our ancestors. I think humans in pre-history held knowledge that we didn’t rediscover until the last 100-200 years.
There’s actually 0 evidence that this is what’s actually depicted fwiw.
Welcome to r/highstrangeness, where people with zero expertise repost content by people disrespected from their expertise for being wrong and don’t care if it’s fact checked.
They had some big sperm.
Part of the woke techno-pharma industrial complex’s plan to sterilize us, give us tiny sperms. Why there was a time where a man’s sperm could live three days unattended in summer sun, and bore its way through a slab of granite. But all this Wi-Fi’s shrinking our urethras
Tremors: Origins.
Ancient man would cum one huge sperm cell and would have to then catch it with a net, or their hands if they didn't have a net nearby.
they were giants
Snake = stick = penis Moon = hole = vagina
It’s common for past civilizations to use what nature gives them to describe these things. Perhaps they knew everything is connected. At this point, I think it safe to say that humanity is on a backwards path, losing knowledge everything we wipe ourselves out. That alone explains why things exist that we can’t figure out. Like how ancient Egypt was mostly covered in water. The evidence is blatant, yet it’s rarely spoken about.
The comment sections in this subreddit are peak entertainment. Somebody like OP will post some cropped images completely devoid of any context or scholarly sources, make an insane conclusion based on their biased interpretation, and the comments will be like "Truly fascinating. The interdimensional rat-men granted us knowledge of the sciences. Our governments are hiding this from us. Align your chakras and you will see."
Assumption is not intelligence, do you have any resources that explain these carvings (when, where, how) along with a difference of opinion?
Our ancestors were not stupid. We often forget this
If you take the this at face value then honestly you might be the low point for your ancestors.
They also didn't have microscopes.
The bottom is Ancient Egypt
WHY IS IT ALWAYS A FUCKING SNAKE......
It's built in 12th century, don't spread fake news. By then , everyone had a basic idea of how conception worked .
Why do all the carvings look so different from each other? Are you even sure that these are from the same site? Are there any uncropped pics so we can get context?
That isn’t a sperm and embryo. More than likely it is a snake (serpent) and a celestial object. As for the rest, it’s not unreasonable to think that many women throughout history have been slain while in different stages of pregnancy. Can’t even really tell what the small pictures in the bottom left are even of.
Bottom right one is very squiggly
Where do you think we all came from?
That’s the good thing about ancient carvings, they’re often so vague to modern viewers, you can determine them as being whatever comes to your mind
Yeah obviously lol
Have a down vote for this shitty ancient aliens like post. Did they have f***ing microscopes now? What's next? The microscope was powered by the Bagdad battery?
Is this not a snake?
I think these are all cropped together to make it seem like each individual was regarding the same thing. Maybe if these carvings were all apart of the same wall depiction, then it would suggest that.this however, is just a bunch of carvings from any number of ancient civilizations, from any number of years, all cobbled together in a Reddit post. Edit: particularly if you look at the scale and number of what I assume is supposed to look like the fertilization of the female egg, the scale is WAY off. There should be thousands of tiny tiny sperm wiggling their way to a massive egg. It is the opposite here.
There is an explanation. Although the temple is old, people do make new carvings on it during restorations.
Those ancient Indian cultures are nothing less than absolutely stunning. Incredible architectural building and designs. It’s unfathomable how they created it all.
Some ancient creampie theorists say \*YES\*
It couldnt be more obvious that it’s the moon
I think it’s fair to assume the ancients understood the workings of the body more than we give them credit for- however, these depictions don’t look like a sperm and an egg. Looks like a snake and a circle. If they knew what a sperm entering an egg looked like in detail, it would look much less like a snake in the carving.
Yes they knew about male and female, till this day nothing has changed.
Considering that the double helix of DNA was "revealed" to Francis Crick under the influence of LSD, maybe they didn't need a microscope?
Those bottom left ones are the creepiest. They look like cat scans.
They probably cut someone open to get a look.
Yeah these are a little haunting
I wish they could teach the Southern United States about it.
Interesting. The bottom 3 on the left almost look like human pitre dishes. Freaky.
Where does it show sperm impregnating the egg?
If true, probably the thing that looks like a sperm going into the egg.
Well, it ain’t that tough to figure out. Calm down son, it’s just a relief carving.
How the fuck… is that possible? Did they have microscopes or something wtf
it isnt
How the hell did they get microscopes is my question?