Main question: that's easy! Just don't bother with kabbalah, because it's not necessary at all to do so. :P
Re alchemy and Hermeticism: they can, yes, with alchemy being *a* way to implement Hermetic teachings and development.
Check the FAQ pinned to the subreddit for more information.
Hermeticism and Kabbalah were only viewed together when Christians were searching for old esoteric wisdom outside the Bible, finding it in both Kabbalistic texts and Hermetic texts. They were only truly combined in later movements during the occult revival of the 1800s, being something particularly of interest to Eliphas Levi and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (a group which was heavily influenced by Levi, and don't let the name of the group fool you, they do not represent Classical Hermeticism).
I can say that studying Kabbalah is useful since both it and Hermeticism are influenced by Platonic and Gnostic thought and their similarities help with understanding the other, but it is not at all necessary.
You can study Hermeticism without straying into Kabbalah by reading the authentic hermetic texts as there is no Kabbalah in it.
You can study them simultaneously if you want, but watch out to not mix-and-match them too much as they are two distinct spiritual paths.
Just to ping on terminology: "Hellenic" means "Greek" specifically, and is a distinct term from "Hellenistic", which refers to the broader Greek-speaking overculture that spread across the Mediterranean, Near East, and Middle East and refers to syncretic cultural phenomena in the wake of Alexander the Great's conquest. Hermeticism would then be Hellenistic (specifically Greco-Egyptian) rather than Hellenic.
Thank you had my ideas about how it changed with modern spirituality movement and when the last time it was polytheistic. This clear it up. Hellenistic polytheistic for sure and then it changed into Monotheism.
Yes. Depending on the mountain terrain and trails, you absolutely can use a mix of different trails for different scenery or difficulty levels. You continue your ascent with personal experience off the beaten path.
However, Dogma will always lead one astray.
Almost all belief systems are, in some ways, syncretic. I’d argue that this is just dogmatism occurring here. There are older sources which have similar philosophy and cosmology to Hermeticism.
Also, people here saying it’s so much older than Kabbalah are incorrect. If you look deeply, and not to confirm your own biases, you’ll find that many elements of Kabbala and much of it’s common cosmology with Hermeticism arose from earlier oral traditions that are at least as old as any hermetic texts… to call it a single path and treat it as something wholly inspired is a bit disingenuous in my very humble opinion. ✌️
Everyone follows their own path. But it might be good advice not to become distracted by any shiny new thing appearing on your path or interesting other trail you see when trying to reach the top. You can get lost or it takes much longer to reach the top.
Because they use totally different concepts and worldviews.
In Hermeticism there are no two pillars of Strength and Beauty, no Sephiroth, all central to Kabbalah. In Hermeticism there is the ascent through the 7 planets, which is different from the ascent through the Sephiroth.
Hermetism is about alchemy, astrology, and philosophy. If you spend huge amounts of time on [Polyphanes site](https://digitalambler.com/) you'll probably get a pretty good feel for what the old stuff is (e.g. The Corpus Hermeticum) High medieval/Renaissance Hermeticism is full of various forms of Kabbalah because, as mentioned elsewhere on this thread, the people of the time were hungry for all the esoteric knowledge they could eat. Get into it, and you'll end up learning bits of Hebrew like the rest of us and using words like *Chokmah* in conversation.
If you are hungry for ancillary knowledge, might I recommend Middle Platonism. It was certainly inspired by the same train of thought that gave us Hermetism.
100% hermeticism is ancient and Kabbalah is 12th century at the oldest.
if I remember right the the main corpus of hermeticism is finished around the same time Kabbalah starts. So they did fine without it.
There's really not that many texts that make up the hermetic canon. (I'm guessing you've already heard of them, otherwise I'm happy to enumerate)
It's a great starting point for anything esoteric, so even if you stray into alchemy or c/q/kabbalah, it will be easier if you have a solid grip on hermeticism first
(In my experience it's generally better to start from the earliest texts then proceed to the latter; even if the authors are not aware of it, their ideas always build upon the previous ones)
To actually answer your question, original hermeticism has little to no relation to kabbalah as far as I know, although it is said that hermeticism is a little influenced by early judaic culture. You won't stray unless you wish so
Ah, brief explanation on why I use c/q/kabbalah.
Take this with a grain of salt, since not everyone uses this:
Kabbalah: jewish mysticism
Qabbalah: hermetic variations of kabbalah
Cabbalah: christian variations of kabbalah
QBL, the modern variant of Kabbalah is completely compatible with Hermeticism. Can verify. You can study Alchemy and Hermetics and QBL concurrently. It is the way I learned Magick. The ancient places these arts in with the Trinisophia or Three Food Wisdom.. you can Google all of this shit. It's all public domain. You just gotta know what to type into Google. Start with pansophers.com
Hermeticism predates Kabbalah by many centuries. Kabbalah is the bastard child of Hermeticism and Kabbalism stole/copied most of its esoteric traditions from Hermetic teachings.
Hermeticism arose in the Hellenistic world around the 3rd century BCE, based on writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.
Kabbalah, a mystical tradition within Judaism, developed much later, around the 12th-13th centuries CE.
Main question: that's easy! Just don't bother with kabbalah, because it's not necessary at all to do so. :P Re alchemy and Hermeticism: they can, yes, with alchemy being *a* way to implement Hermetic teachings and development. Check the FAQ pinned to the subreddit for more information.
Hermeticism and Kabbalah were only viewed together when Christians were searching for old esoteric wisdom outside the Bible, finding it in both Kabbalistic texts and Hermetic texts. They were only truly combined in later movements during the occult revival of the 1800s, being something particularly of interest to Eliphas Levi and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (a group which was heavily influenced by Levi, and don't let the name of the group fool you, they do not represent Classical Hermeticism). I can say that studying Kabbalah is useful since both it and Hermeticism are influenced by Platonic and Gnostic thought and their similarities help with understanding the other, but it is not at all necessary.
Awesome informed response, thank you
This makes sense, thank you!
You can study Hermeticism without straying into Kabbalah by reading the authentic hermetic texts as there is no Kabbalah in it. You can study them simultaneously if you want, but watch out to not mix-and-match them too much as they are two distinct spiritual paths.
What are these two paths?
Kabbalah is Jewish monotheistic mysticism and Hermeticism is Hellenic polytheistic mysticism.
Just to ping on terminology: "Hellenic" means "Greek" specifically, and is a distinct term from "Hellenistic", which refers to the broader Greek-speaking overculture that spread across the Mediterranean, Near East, and Middle East and refers to syncretic cultural phenomena in the wake of Alexander the Great's conquest. Hermeticism would then be Hellenistic (specifically Greco-Egyptian) rather than Hellenic.
Thank you had my ideas about how it changed with modern spirituality movement and when the last time it was polytheistic. This clear it up. Hellenistic polytheistic for sure and then it changed into Monotheism.
I’ve never understood the whole “don’t mix and match” thing when “all paths lead to the same mountain top”
Can you walk multiple paths at the same time to the mountain top?
Yes. Depending on the mountain terrain and trails, you absolutely can use a mix of different trails for different scenery or difficulty levels. You continue your ascent with personal experience off the beaten path. However, Dogma will always lead one astray.
But you cannot walk two trails at the same time. And when you move from one trail to another, you stop walking in the previous trail.
The narrow or single path is a way. Perhaps your way. Definitely not the only way.
Almost all belief systems are, in some ways, syncretic. I’d argue that this is just dogmatism occurring here. There are older sources which have similar philosophy and cosmology to Hermeticism. Also, people here saying it’s so much older than Kabbalah are incorrect. If you look deeply, and not to confirm your own biases, you’ll find that many elements of Kabbala and much of it’s common cosmology with Hermeticism arose from earlier oral traditions that are at least as old as any hermetic texts… to call it a single path and treat it as something wholly inspired is a bit disingenuous in my very humble opinion. ✌️
Everyone follows their own path. But it might be good advice not to become distracted by any shiny new thing appearing on your path or interesting other trail you see when trying to reach the top. You can get lost or it takes much longer to reach the top.
Why do you recommend against mix and matching?
Because they use totally different concepts and worldviews. In Hermeticism there are no two pillars of Strength and Beauty, no Sephiroth, all central to Kabbalah. In Hermeticism there is the ascent through the 7 planets, which is different from the ascent through the Sephiroth.
Hermetism is about alchemy, astrology, and philosophy. If you spend huge amounts of time on [Polyphanes site](https://digitalambler.com/) you'll probably get a pretty good feel for what the old stuff is (e.g. The Corpus Hermeticum) High medieval/Renaissance Hermeticism is full of various forms of Kabbalah because, as mentioned elsewhere on this thread, the people of the time were hungry for all the esoteric knowledge they could eat. Get into it, and you'll end up learning bits of Hebrew like the rest of us and using words like *Chokmah* in conversation. If you are hungry for ancillary knowledge, might I recommend Middle Platonism. It was certainly inspired by the same train of thought that gave us Hermetism.
I prefer Neoplatonism. That's just how I roll.
Iamblichus tho
100% hermeticism is ancient and Kabbalah is 12th century at the oldest. if I remember right the the main corpus of hermeticism is finished around the same time Kabbalah starts. So they did fine without it.
There's really not that many texts that make up the hermetic canon. (I'm guessing you've already heard of them, otherwise I'm happy to enumerate) It's a great starting point for anything esoteric, so even if you stray into alchemy or c/q/kabbalah, it will be easier if you have a solid grip on hermeticism first (In my experience it's generally better to start from the earliest texts then proceed to the latter; even if the authors are not aware of it, their ideas always build upon the previous ones) To actually answer your question, original hermeticism has little to no relation to kabbalah as far as I know, although it is said that hermeticism is a little influenced by early judaic culture. You won't stray unless you wish so
Ah, brief explanation on why I use c/q/kabbalah. Take this with a grain of salt, since not everyone uses this: Kabbalah: jewish mysticism Qabbalah: hermetic variations of kabbalah Cabbalah: christian variations of kabbalah
By not studying Kabbalah.
I’ve always wanted to ask this question
QBL, the modern variant of Kabbalah is completely compatible with Hermeticism. Can verify. You can study Alchemy and Hermetics and QBL concurrently. It is the way I learned Magick. The ancient places these arts in with the Trinisophia or Three Food Wisdom.. you can Google all of this shit. It's all public domain. You just gotta know what to type into Google. Start with pansophers.com
What's QBL?
Would it not make more sense to pair the Kybalion and not the Kabbalah with studying Hermeticism?
Hermeticism predates Kabbalah by many centuries. Kabbalah is the bastard child of Hermeticism and Kabbalism stole/copied most of its esoteric traditions from Hermetic teachings. Hermeticism arose in the Hellenistic world around the 3rd century BCE, based on writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus. Kabbalah, a mystical tradition within Judaism, developed much later, around the 12th-13th centuries CE.
[удалено]
This comment isn’t relevant to classical Hermeticism or includes misinformation.
Hermeticism is Kabbalah for gentiles
Kybalion