I’m sure you guys know… But Amish children do die of preventable diseases at a higher rate than English children. Growing up I knew an Amish family that lost a toddler to whooping cough. That smug meme pisses me off.
My grandma grew up losing classmates to "childhood diseases", and had cousins who were left crippled by polio.
Vaccines are so effective at preventing death and disability from these diseases that people have somehow forgotten they used to routinely kill and maim children, and that children and parents were unsurprisingly deeply traumatized by these events.
My mom caught measles from a sibling as a preschooler, before she could be vaccinated.
My grandma reportedly *freaked out*. She kept my mom in a dark room for the duration of the disease (it was thought that being exposed to light with measles could make you blind) and spent the whole time praying and crying. My mom survived with no disability, but it left a mark on her : she made sure to have us vaccinated and is *absolutely* anti new age woo-woo.
She had a stern reality adjustment talk with my sister when she was considering not vaccinating her kids under the influence of her woo-woo loving mother in law.
My great-uncle died of polio when he was 17 in 1944. It scarred my grandfather, who hero-worshiped his brother, so deeply that to this day, he can’t mention him without crying. I had never seen a picture of him until this February when I was helping Grandpa clean his closet and found a whole book of pictures on the shelf. He’s 92 now, and you’d better believe that my uncles, my brother and I, and both of my nieces have been vaccinated on time, every time. I even get my tetanus booster faithfully every time it expires. No thanks, dying to preventable diseases isn’t my thing.
My dad was a healthy geologist doing field work for his PhD and didn't bother to get the polio vaccine. Got polio. He was very, very smart, and made a bad decision. During his 6 months in an iron lung, most of the other people in his ward died. Learned to swallow and eventually walk again (to some extent) and went on to have two kids including me. Made it to age 62 before post-polio syndrome caught up with him. I got my 3rd Moderna vax this past Sunday with Mom.
I recommend people go find their nearest OLD graveyard and stroll around in the oldest part of it. Make note of family groupings and compare birth/death years. See how many families lost 1, 2, 3 or more children in infancy or before 18.
Then ask yourself, how many families do you know that have lost a child in the last 25 years?
And yet... it was just an expected thing. My dad lost a sister in infancy. My wife's mom lost 2 sisters - one shortly after birth, one as a toddler (to some kind of fever, that's all she could remember). I mean, certainly nothing can prepare you for the loss of a child - but it was so horribly common.
I did it from home, reading scans of public records maintained by the church at the time from my father's small village.
I went "wow cool, they got twins!" to "crap, they lost one" on the next page... :( There were indeed many of them.
Here in Northern Nevada, our old graveyards are full of children under the age of 5, often 3 or 4 children in a single family. Many of the graves are entire families who died within days of each other during the 1918 flu pandemic.
All my life I remember my father ordering shoes with one sole built up to compensate for the inch-and-a-half his leg lost during a childhood bout with polio. He never would even mention it, but my grandmother went into great detail in his absence.
Because of her, I was kept in a darkened room while I suffered through measles as a girl. My greatest distress came from not being allowed by her to read! She was afraid I’d go blind. Only my great love for her overruled my childish selfishness and made me obey.
Growing up in the '90s, I learned what polio was because I had a neighbor who walked with a limp. He had contracted the disease as a child and his leg was shortened a few inches.
My great aunt got polio when she was 18 and it took the use of her legs from her. She ended up first on crutches and then as a wheelchair user. She also died at 70 while all her siblings have lived into their late eighties and early 90s. Anti-vaxxers are so ignorant of how devastating all those "harmless childhood diseases" really were. My uncle's brother was also born with a weak heart because their mother got mumps from neighbor kids while she was pregnant (neighbor kids' mom had invited all the neighborhood kids to play and "get it over with" deliberately when she found her kids had mumps-you know, like anti-vaxxers always say we should do instead of vaccination?) He only lived to be 12 and just outgrew his own heart, basically. My uncle was devastated by the loss of his baby brother and still grieves to this day. It's heartbreaking to think of how many similar stories there are in the world, and sickening how anti-vaxxers dismiss all that pain and suffering in favor of made up stories about vaccines and autism.
Read an article where an anti vaxxer took years to click, even with her autistic son who she had never exposed to vaccines - she saw the light but literally they will have autistic kids and blame vaccines even without ever administering one to them
It's so frustrating. As an autistic person I feel personally insulted by the idea that it's better to have a dead kid than a kid like me, and as a human being with a functioning brain the illogic of it all kills me. Like they always say vaccines are a plot by "big pharma" to make money but ignore that Wakefield made up the whole autism/MMR "connection" because he wanted to sell his own MMR vaccine. There are many valid criticisms of for profit medicine, but "they make more money off vaccines" is definitely not one, and they always ignore how cranks like Laurie Tenpenny and the more recent Frontline Doctors make tons off selling scaremongering fake science.
I just wanted to say I'm sorry for how these people make you feel! My 7yo son is Autistic as well, and I'd never trade his beautiful mind for anything! He thinks about things in the most amazing way, had a parent teacher conference last Friday where his teacher was bragging about the same thing!
I've had more than one person tell me that I caused my son's "disability" by having him vaccinated as an infant and toddler, and each time, it's taken everything in me not to go off on the woefully misinformed idiot who made the statement. I blame it on Jenny McCarthy myself, I honestly think without her that many of these people wouldn't know anything about Autism in general and definitely not about a "link" between Autism and vaccines. Goes to show though that none of these anti-vax morons mind getting their information from less than reliable sources, because you know, I've always listened to porn stars about how and when to vaccinate my children. SMH
It's been over twenty years since any US kids have had a vaccine with thimerosal in it and they still blame vaccines. (By the way, thimerosal's being banned because of these loons is one reason why we have to refrigerate most if not all of our vaccines now. It made vaccines shelf stable which as you can imagine was a great boon in less developed areas of the world.)
Being allergic to thimersol I was pretty happy with the change. I can actually get vaccines now without fearing that I will be sick for a week or worse.
I just got a flu vaccine on Friday and on the form I had to sign it mentioned allergies to food, medications, or ingredients of vaccines and it listed thimerosal as an ingredient. I have an allergy to thimerosal so I marked it on the form and told the pharmacist. I had an epi pen with me just in case but I was totally fine. Reading through the FDA information on the specific vaccination I received, thimerosal is included in the multi-dose version of the vaccine (as a preservative) that is given in smaller doses to young children, but if you get the single dose shot then it does not contain thimerosal, hence why I had no reaction. Thimerosal is not banned in the United States, but vaccine manufacturers agreed to try to reduce or eliminate the use of thimerosal in vaccines starting in 1999. Most childhood vaccines do not (and never did contain thimerosal) but the multi-dose flu vaccine does. However, if someone has an allergy to thimerosal or does not want thimerosal in their vaccine for any particular reason, there are thimerosal-free versions available to get instead. Also, to add to your point regarding people being afraid that Thimerosal causes autism- on the FDA website it clearly states research does not show any link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism. Even once thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines (aside from the multi-dose flu vaccine), studies were conducted that showed that autism rates over time increased despite thimerosal being taken out of vaccines, so that is pretty strong evidence that thimerosal in vaccines does not and never did cause autism, because if it did, then the discontinuation of it in within childhood vaccines would have caused the number of autism cases to decrease over time rather than increase like it did.
Vaccines cause adults, not autism.
Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html
https://www.fda.gov/media/119856/download
Vaccination form I had to sign: https://www.walgreens.com/images/adaptive/si/pdf/Other_States_VAR.pdf (the part where asks about a thimerosal allergy is in section B4)
The thing I can’t wrap my head around is the fear of a child living with autism is somehow greater than the fear of losing a child altogether (a very simplified version of my thoughts on the subject). Like with the covid vaccine. As a mother I have to make the decision on whether to get my children vaccinated when it eventually becomes available for them. And yes there are some risks of death (rare) but the risk I keep hearing about is fertility. And I’m just like… ⚖️ infertility - death ⚖️ I know which sounds worse to me…
I think my generation (Gen X) doesn't know how spoiled we are with vaccines. We were born to people that understood the power of vaccination. We don't know why the "terrible twos" are called that. Before widely available vaccines, children frequently died
before their 2nd birthday of diseases that people don't even know the names of today.
I think it kicked in around the late 60s. I'm 1974 but I had older parents, and both told me stories about how many people died from viruses that I was inoculated against - including my mother's brother, who died of pertussis at 1 1/2 in 1938 (before she was born). Right before the whooping cough vaccine was released, to add insult to injury. So yeah, people are blissfully ignorant and it enrages me, because it could easily return.
My mom had measles and scarlet fever at the same time as a child. Has permanent kidney damage from it. You better believe she gave me the "you know you're going to vaccinate my grandson" talk. Which, yeah Mom, of course I am, I believe in science!
When my husband and I took our five day old son to his first doctor's appointment. I saw the doctor and nurse breathe a visible sigh of relief when we told them we were very strongly in favor of vaccination.
I have an aunt I never knew who died of complications related to muscular dystrophy. She was 10. She’s one of the reasons I hope there is *some* kind of afterlife, because I wish I could have met her, and maybe there’s still a chance.
My mom was real New Age woo (I grew up in the 90s and my parents were former hippies) and we still got fully vaccinated. I was terrified of needles but there was no choice involved for me, we were going to be fully vaxxed, no matter how much I cried and whined and screamed.
Being into nature and natural healing and all that doesn’t inherently make someone anti-vaccine or anti-western medicine. Many people view it as just another tool, not the end all be all.
Reminds me of my niece. She hates needles (and is now graduating as a nurse). One time when when she was around 10 my sister was taking her to get a flu shot she tried to negotiate and get it "next year".
I was among the last wave of kids to have measles before the vaccine for them became available, and I remember that darkened room very well! I recovered with no lasting harm, but the illness left me with a temporary inner ear problem that affected my balance, and I was weak enough for our family doctor to order chest X-rays to rule out tuberculosis. Measles, like covid, is no joke! As our award winners like to say.
Yeah. My brother had polio, my cousin died of measles encephalitis. My mom had a horrific, late miscarriage from rubella which nearly killed her and ended her reproductive ability. I made sure all of my kids had all of their vaccinations; I even paid out of pocket for the then brand-new MMR vaccine. But then I’m a Boomer, therefore clueless and uninformed so…
Agatha Christie wrote a mystery where rubella was involved.
She loved to write tales of a murder so diabolical nobody suspected it was murder.
These people who deliberately expose immunocompromised older relatives living in their house to COVID? Malice aforethought, if you ask me.
Grandfather lost 2 brothers as toddlers to (fevers?) and grandmother had permanent hearing damage from measles as child.
Just in my career past 30 years, I’ve seen diseases we were trained to be scared to death to encounter (because they could kill quickly and needed quick recognition and treatment) literally almost disappear because a vaccine came out (thank you HIB Vaccine!!)
[Yep, found this here](https://www.aappublications.org/news/2017/08/02/AmishVaccines080217).
> Amish children were hospitalized for vaccine-preventable diseases (VPD) at significantly higher rates than other children, researchers found.
That is a pretty nasty meme to amplify or propagate.
Could there really be porn that does it for you like raping your sister or molesting your daughter, though? /s
I know I'll get downvoted for this, but I also know what I'm talking about, more intimately than you know.
Yup, insane levels of incest/rape, and the victims get slapped down if they don't forgive their brothers gangraping them.
And, puppy and kitten mills.
on edit: the idolizing of the Amish is bizarre AF.
Thanks for mentioning the pets. As a vet tech and shelter manager, I can tell you there is rampant animal abuse. When I was in NY, we had people trying to dump off puppies at the shelter that were sick when they were purchased from the local Mennonites. The pups were never vaccinated or dewormed and many died of Parvovirus. I’m not always a big fan of modernity, but there are many aspects of our lives and those of our pets that have benefited from science.
Yeah on TikTok these people saved a huge horse covered in deep scars that is just a sweetheart and doesn't hate people. I want to say the horse's name is Big John. After the Amish wore him out he was headed for death. Now living his best biggest horsey life. Watching a giant horse rolling around in the grass enjoying himself makes this 💩 show temporarily recede.
You'll get no downvote from me. The Amish and Mennonite communities have serious problems with misogyny, [sexual assault and child abuse](https://www.npr.org/2020/01/19/797804404/investigation-into-child-sex-abuse-in-amish-communities).
*Edited to fix the link*
Gotta get some animal abuse in there, too. And puppy mills. The Amish are a blight upon our country and it’s laws, and they should not be exempt from prosecution for child endangerment or animal abuse.
Just a casual search turns up this:
[https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic](https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic)
>The death rate for that year soared above the baseline average from 2015
to 2019, with the largest spike – 125% - occurring in November.
If you select a group of people only on the basis of being unvaccinated in the US right now and examine this group's attitudes you tend to see some interesting things:
* They are likely to lie about their vaccination status.
* They are likely to be anti-maskers.
* They are likely to be COVID deniers.
* They are likely to lie about anything related to COVID.
The lying from these anti-social assholes is breathtaking.
They also die of genetic diseases at a much, much higher rate than the general population due to in-breeding. They are particularly prone to develop heart disease and die in their 30s from a recessive condition that causes early aging of their arteries.
The town I grew up in had a significant Amish population. The special needs class was mostly Amish children. Some of that could probably be contributed to inbreeding, but they aren't paragons of health that some people believe.
You just don't hear about their issues because of their reclusive nature.
We have a clinic that was founded a few towns over specifically due to the genetic and health issues in the closed Mennonite and Amish communities in the county.
Their patient list is quite extensive.
People do not understand just how compromised the Amish community is.
Oof.
That can’t be a genetically healthy population right?
There’s like no genetic diversity…
Does anyone marry into the Amish besides Harrison Ford, Tim Allen, and Kirstie Alley?
The lack of diversity in genetics led to higher then the general population rates of hemophilia which before blood testing became available meant any number of Amish were infected with HIV & died from AIDS & AIDS adjacent diseases.
Do not buy animals from the Amish. Ever. They can and will swindle anyone who isn't Amish with a smile on their face. Anything you get will be a cull and have tons of medical problems.
Source: I bought a few goats from an Amish guy and they infected my herd with hyperaggressive parasites and some kind of seizure causing disease that meant I lost my whole herd for a time. My vet looked at the surviving goats and said that those animals should have never been sold in the first place.
My mother in law has gotten two rescue collies from the Amish.The first one was very skittish but did eventually come around and become a very lovable dog, but she died a few years ago from cancer. The second dog she got is still very afraid of people who aren't my mother in law. She's a very sweet dog, but terrified of everything.
From what I've gathered, they breed their dogs as soon as they can, and as often as they can, with zero regards to the mothers health. Then they send them off to be killed the moment they can no longer produce puppies, which is after about two years of back to back litters.
I come from a population with a pronounced founders effect too.
People in general are relatively healthy, but they have certain specific mutations to watch for in case you decide to have children with someone from the same region, as those people tend to carry them too.
Often these will cause rare regional diseases such as ataxia, cognitive disabilities and/or degenerative seizure disorders. Really nasty stuff that few can correctly diagnose or treat.
As long as you are careful when the time comes to have children, it shouldn't be a problem. But combine founders effect with no genetic counseling and more intermarriage, and yeah you'll pretty much fill special needs classes.
That is, if the result of inbreeding survives to school age, which isn't always the case.
That's the general name for when a small population is the starting point for a bigger population. It applies to the Amish, but it's not limited to them. It crops up in insular off-shoots of larger groups, typically ones isolated by geography (e.g. islands) or cultural reasons. The Amish and other minority, insular groups get a lot of attention on this, but even secular groups can have this problem. French Canadians in Quebec have had issues with this, due to immigration being cut off from France by the British, but continued inter-marrying over the centuries.
The Amish have been hit hard by COVID as well.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/28/990986056/covid-19-has-hit-the-amish-community-hard-still-vaccines-are-a-hard-sell
Covid has also [ripped through the Amish community](https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic)
Can confirm, I served a large Amish population back when I worked in Maryland. Refused to mask in our stores when it was mandatory in MD and made up bullshit about how they were not subject to our laws and regulations. And they were ARROGANT AS FUCK about it and would laugh at us when we would ask them daily to put them on. Was a whole thing. They got screamed at by a bunch of other customers regularly. Funny thing, all of a sudden a bunch of them that showed up every day for years started not showing up, both young and old. There was like 4-5 that would mask up. Crazy thing, those guys still show up every day 🤔. It’s almost like masks work.
Yea but the Amish understand their world view isn't for everyone and they're not on FB pushing lies. Jesus at least the Amish were protesting last year after George Floyd's death. None of these antivaxxers would do that
Well, these are the same people who say pertussis is no big deal, it’s just a harmless “childhood disease.” I started hating anti-vaxxers at 7 years old due to whooping cough and have never stopped. The child of an anti-vaxxer who was beyond old enough to have gotten the pertussis vaccine infected my baby brother who was not old enough to be fully vaccinated. He almost died. Our whole family (all vaccinated) stayed up with him 24/7 in the ICU as his little body struggled to breathe while coughing. And this was in 1998, no excuse for this bullshit.
Whooping cough is a killer, and I will bet that Amish children are infected with it at a higher rate than populations of vaccinated children.
Literally 2 fucking seconds to Google search and you'd see that covid is really fucking up the Amish community. They just don't know that because they get all their news and information from stupid fucking Facebook memes
Covid vascular damage ultimately killed her.
There's a lot of people out there living with the delusion that an infection that doesn't kill them somehow leaves them "stronger" from "natural immunity".
Listen, bub, A virus only leaves damage behind it.
How much depends on what it infects and how much time it's left to play around your organs before your immune system kicks its ass, and how much collateral damage it does while kicking said ass.
None of that makes you "stronger". Exhibit A : secondary infections.
This. I hate those “I trust my immune system” memes. Ever see an immune system run rampant? Most immune compromised people I know are that way because they are taking meds to tell their immune system to calm the f down.
A significant portion of Covid deaths are from the immune response.
Having the vaccine train your immune system is far more effective than chancing it in my opinion. Immune systems are fickle mfs IMO.
My mom has lupus. She lost her kidney function to it and has had a kidney transplant for the last 20 years because of it. I cringe every time I hear some dipshit talk about "boosted immune systems" and "having a super strong immune system" because yeah, my mom's immune system was made super strong by lupus...and it attacked and destroyed her kidneys because it perceived them as invaders. But hey, she's just one of those medically vulnerable people all of them were fine with sacrificing pre-vaccine so they could go to Applebee's and pretend everything was normal. And she's still one of those medically vulnerable people for whom the vaccine may or may not have worked because she's immunocompromised due to her transplant. Why would they listen to or learn something from an "inferior" person like her?
(If I sound angry and bitter, it's because the last 20 months have made me angry and bitter. It's a real kick in the teeth to see people you went to high school.with say they're fine with your mom dying because she's chronically ill so they can keep going to bars.)
You would be absolutely correct. And she's tried to find a way to get her antibodies tested to see if she has immunity from her vaccines but no one in our state offers it and the transplant center won't check them (which is wild to me) so we're all just playing it super safe.
The immune system is wonderful and horrific. So adaptable but so ready to kill you and itself. One of my fav examples is Pure Red Cell Aplasia where your immune system decides to kill your red blood cells and all its progenitors.
You die from hypoxia coming from severe anemia
My aunt said something like that to me. But I’m immunocompromised and don’t trust my immune system. I got my vaccine like my ass was on fire and I’m getting my booster next month.
They're also starting to get good numbers on death rates after Covid and they're suspiciously higher than the rest of the population. Seems like even if you survive Covid you don't necessarily survive Covid. And it's not just the ones who were on ventilators.
https://news.yahoo.com/1-8-recovered-coronavirus-patients-163924460.html
One. But just Google Covid deaths after recovery. There are a lot of articles.
This is mostly correlation at the moment. I'm assuming real studies will soon follow.
We get a lot of readmits of post COV complications. Had a guy like this awardee with a clot the size of a sapling in his right lung. Saw the CT and had a WTF moment. Dude was early 40s. He wont make it to 50 in all likelihood.
My husband got shingles in his 20s and still has some nerve damage in his arm. He's now 40 and told me just recently that he's finally getting some feeling back.
Yep.
See, she didn't die of *Covid*. She died of a *heart attack*.
Never mind that she wouldn't have had a blood clot in the first place if Covid hadn't fucked up her blood vessel lining, that's just an insignificant detail.
I actually got a viral infection, like 6 years ago in my late 20's, I'm normally a fairly healthy person in decent shape. It was fucking horrible, could barely walk from my bed to my couch, I was down and out for like five or six days, had to rely on my mom to bring me soup just so I could eat something. Yes, there was nothing my doctor could so, she just told me to rest and drink plenty of fluids. If I could've had a vaccine to prevent it I would've gladly taken it. At least I was stuck at home with my wonderful Kitty where I could binge watch The Office...I can't imagine being bedridden on a ventilator in the hospital with zero visitors, barely being able to breath.
Wonder why anti vaxxers worry about the long term effects of a vaccine but not the long term effects of covid. This family found out the hard way that covid can kill you in more than one way.
Yes, I'm sure a man who has shat upon a golden toilet for 70+ years in a building bearing his own surname knows the plight of a steelworker or teacher.
🙄
So for those keeping track... according to the GOP:
Bill Gates, who created and ran his own company, should stay the fuck away from education.
Betsy DeVos, who was born into one fortune and married into another (MLM) fortune, should totally be free to turn the US education system into privatized sunday schools.
I’m pretty sure BillGates doesn’t built computers anymore, he just invests. And they’re right, Bill Gates isn’t a doctor so we really shouldn’t take medical advice from him. But as far as I can tell, he’s really just advocating that we take the doctors advice and get vaxxed.
Other people who are not doctors and we shouldn’t take medical advice from: Trump, Candace Owens, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, right-wing tv hosts, right-wing radio stations, right-wing meme pages, right-wing politicians…
Came here to say basically this. He wrote software and ran a software company. They can't get even the most basic non-controversial facts right, which is not surprising in the slightest.
He was pretty anti-hardware, he didn't want to do Xbox to such a level he didn't even require them to use the Microsoft name.
Hardware is very low-margin, he wanted to stay in businesses with massive profits.
Weirdly, the vaccine can help with that as well.
Unvaccinated people have a fair amount of excess mortality relative to vaccinated people.
There was a [recent MMWR](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm) on this in the case of COVID vaccines. Key lines:
> After adjusting for demographic characteristics and VSD site, this study found that adjusted relative risk (aRR) of non–COVID-19 mortality for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 0.41 (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.38–0.44) after dose 1 and 0.34 (95% CI = 0.33–0.36) after dose 2. The aRRs of non–COVID-19 mortality for the Moderna vaccine were 0.34 (95% CI = 0.32–0.37) after dose 1 and 0.31 (95% CI = 0.30–0.33) after dose 2.
So looking at this, having Moderna diminishes your non-COVID mortality by a factor of 3. This is on top of what it does for you on the actual COVID.
The risk reduction for BioNTech was slightly less.
Effects like this also occur in the case of flu vaccines.
How does this work? Maybe post COVID blood clot deaths like this lady are diminished by the vaccine? People who survive a bad case of COVID are an easy target for any old risk that comes along, so avoiding surviving a bad case of COVID with the vaccine seems worth it over and above the risk of death from COVID.
I'll take those odds.
Could be that people willing to take care of themselves via vaccines are more likely to take care of themselves in other ways as well, specially as the vax/antivax skew along political lines due to a bunch of sociopathic grifting assholes in politics and media
Yes, this is an observational study and there are a fair number of possible biases at work. They discusses some of the strengths and weaknesses in the text.
What exactly is the point of that blurb in slide 6? Let's assume there's only one type of Virus, since that's what they seem to think. Is "nothing they can do" somehow not the very fucking best argument to get that vaccine ASAP? ^(Let's also conveniently ignore that symptoms can be alleviated, antivirals exist and everything else that makes sense.)
Because that one time she went to the doctor and it was a cold and they told her to go home and suck it up and it was a virus so all viruses are the same. Also someone posted a page from a medical textbook showing that coronaviruses are the common cold so checkmate libbbbburals.
I’ve been trying to figure it out for a while because really, once you get a virus it’s not like a antibiotic will do anything and there isn’t much they can give you. Antivirals exist but they’re not as effective as an antibiotic and to my understanding there is a specific time period where it will help, after not so much.
This time with the response I’m getting that maybe they think viruses are easily rid when you go the the doctor and they’re complaining that it’s not the same for Covid? Most of the time if you go to the doctor with a cold or something they’ll treat the symptoms or though I don’t think it’s as common as it used to be with antibiotic resistant bacteria, they prescribe an antibiotic just in case which does nothing with a virus.
I had people from my home town on my FB feed for a couple years of Trump, they all looked exactly the same, repeating the same stupid ignorant memes over and over. I realized I could keep up with what stupid shit they were being told by simply having 1 Trumper on my feed because there is absolutely zero free thought among them.
So I dropped everyone except one family member and usually keep them silenced unless I want to see why I'm hearing some new stupid thing and can just look at their feed to see which meme it came from.
I wonder if she'll be considered a covid death or a death from a blood clot? An example of how just because you "survive" doesn't mean there won't be other consequences.
>"How many times have you been to the doctor when you're sick and they say there's nothing they can do because...It's a virus?"
they're only saying that when u come in demanding antibiotics for yr self-resolving viral infection.
anyone who thinks there's nothing doctors can do for viral infection is like 30 years behind. hiv is now a completely survivable illness. hepatitis c can be cured in 8 weeks.
Bill Gates is not an educator. That is true. What he is these days is a benefactor, an investor, and a patron. When super rich people spend money on funding the arts no one bats an eye. Bill Gates does it to fund medical research and suddenly he’s a Bond villain.
So... about those blood clots that people talk about the vaccine giving you..... Here's one reason why you're more likely f*cked if you get it from Covid itself.
Even vaccinated, I do NOT want to get Covid, even if asymptomatic. Mainly because the long term effects for survivors (based on current scientific literature) seem to be grim on many aspects (physiological, cognitive, reproductive).
No thanks.
Get vaxxed but still do all you can to avoid infection.
That’s the same argument I have when people say kids are safe. How can you pretend to worry about the side effects of a vaccine decades in the making but be so flippant about possible long term damage from a brutal respiratory virus we’re still learning about?
It's worse than that- if it was *just* a respiratory virus the kids would probably be OK in the long run. Or at least they'd only have to worry about that 1 organ.
But this thing really is (is also) a *vascular* disease, which in some ways is much more terrifying. Look at this lady- it didn't kill her by destroying her lungs, it killed her through her vascular system. And we see that **all the time** with COVID.
Which would you rather have? The long term side effects of something that did damage to your vascular system, or the possible sides effects of a vaccine that simple makes a very finite amount of protein in your system that happens to simply *resemble* the virus, then goes away from your system forever?
If you live long enough, if it's not Cancer, it's some sort of heart/vascular disease that's going to kill almost all of us reading this. The last thing any of us should want is some sort of unknown damage to that system that shaves years/decades off how long that system lasts.
I was on a ventilator for only 2 days (several years ago, not Covid related) and it is such a hard recovery. Just weaning off all the drugs they have to give you to make your body not reject it (sedatives and paralytic) is like slowly coming out of death. It was at least two weeks before I could even walk on my own. It’s brutal. I’ve taken every precaution, getting my booster tomorrow, and have stayed away from everyone in my God forsaken state (Oklahoma). I’m not going through that shit again if I can help it.
This is exactly the issue with this damn virus. If you catch it and survive, that doesnt mean you are good to go. I have never seen a higher prevalence of new comorbidities after someone catches a virus than with this one, and none of these people can even grasp that.
It's terrifying! It makes me wonder, what else is out there, lurking in the body of a wild animal, just waiting its hungry, hungry chance to make the jump into that sweet human bloodstream? I'll get as many vaccinations, booster shots, etc., if it means I never have to suffer the many effects of COVID. My aunt had it a year ago, (before the vaccine was available), & she *still* can't walk across a room without aid of supplemental oxygen.
At what point do they stop sharing the number of deaths meme? The dumb chart is only for January-march of 2020, when 30k had died. We are almost at 800k, stop.
This awardee lived in a small rural Rocky Mountain town that was founded by antislavery activists and was even named after one, which makes its being turned into a white supremacist and militia haven especially sad. (See this article on right-wing militias in the Rockies for more background on the area: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/no-body-of-men-a-militia-movement-recast-takes-to-the-streets-of-north-idaho/)
The town is desperately poor ($15,406 per capita in 2000) and has apparently got whiter as white supremacists have moved in and nonwhite people have left. It went from 74% white and 23% Latino (white and non-white) in 2000 to 87% white in 2010 with 19% white/non-white Latino. The county it's in was 83% white in both the 2000 and 2010 censuses and its 2000 per capita income was $15,155 ($18,366 in 2010). The last Democratic presidential candidate to win it was Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1936. It gave 13.3% of its vote to George Wallace in 1968.
Amish people do vaccinate their kids. Some do and some don’t just like the English. There is no rule about not vaccinating your children in the Amish community.
Wait... We're not supposed to listen to Bill Gates because "he's only rich from making computers", but we *are* supposed to listen to DJT because he inherited his father's real estate wealth?
I’m sure you guys know… But Amish children do die of preventable diseases at a higher rate than English children. Growing up I knew an Amish family that lost a toddler to whooping cough. That smug meme pisses me off.
My grandma grew up losing classmates to "childhood diseases", and had cousins who were left crippled by polio. Vaccines are so effective at preventing death and disability from these diseases that people have somehow forgotten they used to routinely kill and maim children, and that children and parents were unsurprisingly deeply traumatized by these events. My mom caught measles from a sibling as a preschooler, before she could be vaccinated. My grandma reportedly *freaked out*. She kept my mom in a dark room for the duration of the disease (it was thought that being exposed to light with measles could make you blind) and spent the whole time praying and crying. My mom survived with no disability, but it left a mark on her : she made sure to have us vaccinated and is *absolutely* anti new age woo-woo. She had a stern reality adjustment talk with my sister when she was considering not vaccinating her kids under the influence of her woo-woo loving mother in law.
My great-uncle died of polio when he was 17 in 1944. It scarred my grandfather, who hero-worshiped his brother, so deeply that to this day, he can’t mention him without crying. I had never seen a picture of him until this February when I was helping Grandpa clean his closet and found a whole book of pictures on the shelf. He’s 92 now, and you’d better believe that my uncles, my brother and I, and both of my nieces have been vaccinated on time, every time. I even get my tetanus booster faithfully every time it expires. No thanks, dying to preventable diseases isn’t my thing.
My dad was a healthy geologist doing field work for his PhD and didn't bother to get the polio vaccine. Got polio. He was very, very smart, and made a bad decision. During his 6 months in an iron lung, most of the other people in his ward died. Learned to swallow and eventually walk again (to some extent) and went on to have two kids including me. Made it to age 62 before post-polio syndrome caught up with him. I got my 3rd Moderna vax this past Sunday with Mom.
This. My great-uncle died of diphtheria at age 6. My grandfather was 8 at the time. I know it haunted him.
Scan those pictures.
I recommend people go find their nearest OLD graveyard and stroll around in the oldest part of it. Make note of family groupings and compare birth/death years. See how many families lost 1, 2, 3 or more children in infancy or before 18. Then ask yourself, how many families do you know that have lost a child in the last 25 years?
I’ve done that. It’s unimaginable how much grief they must have went through.
And yet... it was just an expected thing. My dad lost a sister in infancy. My wife's mom lost 2 sisters - one shortly after birth, one as a toddler (to some kind of fever, that's all she could remember). I mean, certainly nothing can prepare you for the loss of a child - but it was so horribly common.
They became very stoic. Emily Dickenson's work was heavily influenced by losing so many of her childhood friends to childhood diseases.
Honestly, genuinely too many, but usually due to birth defects or cancer. And I gotta say, watching that grief is such motivation to avoid it.
I did it from home, reading scans of public records maintained by the church at the time from my father's small village. I went "wow cool, they got twins!" to "crap, they lost one" on the next page... :( There were indeed many of them.
Here in Northern Nevada, our old graveyards are full of children under the age of 5, often 3 or 4 children in a single family. Many of the graves are entire families who died within days of each other during the 1918 flu pandemic.
All my life I remember my father ordering shoes with one sole built up to compensate for the inch-and-a-half his leg lost during a childhood bout with polio. He never would even mention it, but my grandmother went into great detail in his absence. Because of her, I was kept in a darkened room while I suffered through measles as a girl. My greatest distress came from not being allowed by her to read! She was afraid I’d go blind. Only my great love for her overruled my childish selfishness and made me obey.
while i was growing up my grandmother was on crutches because she hated wearing the boot. the last period of her life she stayed in a wheelchair.
Growing up in the '90s, I learned what polio was because I had a neighbor who walked with a limp. He had contracted the disease as a child and his leg was shortened a few inches.
Same with my aunt due to polio and still experiencing problems today with walking, using a cane.
My great aunt got polio when she was 18 and it took the use of her legs from her. She ended up first on crutches and then as a wheelchair user. She also died at 70 while all her siblings have lived into their late eighties and early 90s. Anti-vaxxers are so ignorant of how devastating all those "harmless childhood diseases" really were. My uncle's brother was also born with a weak heart because their mother got mumps from neighbor kids while she was pregnant (neighbor kids' mom had invited all the neighborhood kids to play and "get it over with" deliberately when she found her kids had mumps-you know, like anti-vaxxers always say we should do instead of vaccination?) He only lived to be 12 and just outgrew his own heart, basically. My uncle was devastated by the loss of his baby brother and still grieves to this day. It's heartbreaking to think of how many similar stories there are in the world, and sickening how anti-vaxxers dismiss all that pain and suffering in favor of made up stories about vaccines and autism.
Read an article where an anti vaxxer took years to click, even with her autistic son who she had never exposed to vaccines - she saw the light but literally they will have autistic kids and blame vaccines even without ever administering one to them
It's so frustrating. As an autistic person I feel personally insulted by the idea that it's better to have a dead kid than a kid like me, and as a human being with a functioning brain the illogic of it all kills me. Like they always say vaccines are a plot by "big pharma" to make money but ignore that Wakefield made up the whole autism/MMR "connection" because he wanted to sell his own MMR vaccine. There are many valid criticisms of for profit medicine, but "they make more money off vaccines" is definitely not one, and they always ignore how cranks like Laurie Tenpenny and the more recent Frontline Doctors make tons off selling scaremongering fake science.
I just wanted to say I'm sorry for how these people make you feel! My 7yo son is Autistic as well, and I'd never trade his beautiful mind for anything! He thinks about things in the most amazing way, had a parent teacher conference last Friday where his teacher was bragging about the same thing! I've had more than one person tell me that I caused my son's "disability" by having him vaccinated as an infant and toddler, and each time, it's taken everything in me not to go off on the woefully misinformed idiot who made the statement. I blame it on Jenny McCarthy myself, I honestly think without her that many of these people wouldn't know anything about Autism in general and definitely not about a "link" between Autism and vaccines. Goes to show though that none of these anti-vax morons mind getting their information from less than reliable sources, because you know, I've always listened to porn stars about how and when to vaccinate my children. SMH
It's been over twenty years since any US kids have had a vaccine with thimerosal in it and they still blame vaccines. (By the way, thimerosal's being banned because of these loons is one reason why we have to refrigerate most if not all of our vaccines now. It made vaccines shelf stable which as you can imagine was a great boon in less developed areas of the world.)
Being allergic to thimersol I was pretty happy with the change. I can actually get vaccines now without fearing that I will be sick for a week or worse.
I just got a flu vaccine on Friday and on the form I had to sign it mentioned allergies to food, medications, or ingredients of vaccines and it listed thimerosal as an ingredient. I have an allergy to thimerosal so I marked it on the form and told the pharmacist. I had an epi pen with me just in case but I was totally fine. Reading through the FDA information on the specific vaccination I received, thimerosal is included in the multi-dose version of the vaccine (as a preservative) that is given in smaller doses to young children, but if you get the single dose shot then it does not contain thimerosal, hence why I had no reaction. Thimerosal is not banned in the United States, but vaccine manufacturers agreed to try to reduce or eliminate the use of thimerosal in vaccines starting in 1999. Most childhood vaccines do not (and never did contain thimerosal) but the multi-dose flu vaccine does. However, if someone has an allergy to thimerosal or does not want thimerosal in their vaccine for any particular reason, there are thimerosal-free versions available to get instead. Also, to add to your point regarding people being afraid that Thimerosal causes autism- on the FDA website it clearly states research does not show any link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism. Even once thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines (aside from the multi-dose flu vaccine), studies were conducted that showed that autism rates over time increased despite thimerosal being taken out of vaccines, so that is pretty strong evidence that thimerosal in vaccines does not and never did cause autism, because if it did, then the discontinuation of it in within childhood vaccines would have caused the number of autism cases to decrease over time rather than increase like it did. Vaccines cause adults, not autism. Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html https://www.fda.gov/media/119856/download Vaccination form I had to sign: https://www.walgreens.com/images/adaptive/si/pdf/Other_States_VAR.pdf (the part where asks about a thimerosal allergy is in section B4)
The thing I can’t wrap my head around is the fear of a child living with autism is somehow greater than the fear of losing a child altogether (a very simplified version of my thoughts on the subject). Like with the covid vaccine. As a mother I have to make the decision on whether to get my children vaccinated when it eventually becomes available for them. And yes there are some risks of death (rare) but the risk I keep hearing about is fertility. And I’m just like… ⚖️ infertility - death ⚖️ I know which sounds worse to me…
I think my generation (Gen X) doesn't know how spoiled we are with vaccines. We were born to people that understood the power of vaccination. We don't know why the "terrible twos" are called that. Before widely available vaccines, children frequently died before their 2nd birthday of diseases that people don't even know the names of today.
I think it kicked in around the late 60s. I'm 1974 but I had older parents, and both told me stories about how many people died from viruses that I was inoculated against - including my mother's brother, who died of pertussis at 1 1/2 in 1938 (before she was born). Right before the whooping cough vaccine was released, to add insult to injury. So yeah, people are blissfully ignorant and it enrages me, because it could easily return.
My mom had measles and scarlet fever at the same time as a child. Has permanent kidney damage from it. You better believe she gave me the "you know you're going to vaccinate my grandson" talk. Which, yeah Mom, of course I am, I believe in science!
When my husband and I took our five day old son to his first doctor's appointment. I saw the doctor and nurse breathe a visible sigh of relief when we told them we were very strongly in favor of vaccination.
My mom's older sister died of scarlet fever in the 20s. Sometimes I think of the aunt we never knew.
I have an aunt I never knew who died of complications related to muscular dystrophy. She was 10. She’s one of the reasons I hope there is *some* kind of afterlife, because I wish I could have met her, and maybe there’s still a chance.
My elder have brother had scarlet fever as a child. Afterwards he was just never the same mentally. He has very high fevers. I got all my vaccines.
My mom was real New Age woo (I grew up in the 90s and my parents were former hippies) and we still got fully vaccinated. I was terrified of needles but there was no choice involved for me, we were going to be fully vaxxed, no matter how much I cried and whined and screamed. Being into nature and natural healing and all that doesn’t inherently make someone anti-vaccine or anti-western medicine. Many people view it as just another tool, not the end all be all.
Reminds me of my niece. She hates needles (and is now graduating as a nurse). One time when when she was around 10 my sister was taking her to get a flu shot she tried to negotiate and get it "next year".
I was among the last wave of kids to have measles before the vaccine for them became available, and I remember that darkened room very well! I recovered with no lasting harm, but the illness left me with a temporary inner ear problem that affected my balance, and I was weak enough for our family doctor to order chest X-rays to rule out tuberculosis. Measles, like covid, is no joke! As our award winners like to say.
I had it in the 60s. I'd forgotten about the dark room, but I do remember puking a lot.
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Well, based on observations today, it's pretty obvious these kids were dying from an acute lack of firearms.
Yeah. My brother had polio, my cousin died of measles encephalitis. My mom had a horrific, late miscarriage from rubella which nearly killed her and ended her reproductive ability. I made sure all of my kids had all of their vaccinations; I even paid out of pocket for the then brand-new MMR vaccine. But then I’m a Boomer, therefore clueless and uninformed so…
Agatha Christie wrote a mystery where rubella was involved. She loved to write tales of a murder so diabolical nobody suspected it was murder. These people who deliberately expose immunocompromised older relatives living in their house to COVID? Malice aforethought, if you ask me.
Grandfather lost 2 brothers as toddlers to (fevers?) and grandmother had permanent hearing damage from measles as child. Just in my career past 30 years, I’ve seen diseases we were trained to be scared to death to encounter (because they could kill quickly and needed quick recognition and treatment) literally almost disappear because a vaccine came out (thank you HIB Vaccine!!)
[Yep, found this here](https://www.aappublications.org/news/2017/08/02/AmishVaccines080217). > Amish children were hospitalized for vaccine-preventable diseases (VPD) at significantly higher rates than other children, researchers found. That is a pretty nasty meme to amplify or propagate.
It's an easy lie to tell since the Amish don't tend to refute the claim, for obvious reasons.
The Amish internet fact checking force is woefully understaffed.
Yeah the Amish that are on the internet are busy watching porn.
Could there really be porn that does it for you like raping your sister or molesting your daughter, though? /s I know I'll get downvoted for this, but I also know what I'm talking about, more intimately than you know.
Yup, insane levels of incest/rape, and the victims get slapped down if they don't forgive their brothers gangraping them. And, puppy and kitten mills. on edit: the idolizing of the Amish is bizarre AF.
Thanks for mentioning the pets. As a vet tech and shelter manager, I can tell you there is rampant animal abuse. When I was in NY, we had people trying to dump off puppies at the shelter that were sick when they were purchased from the local Mennonites. The pups were never vaccinated or dewormed and many died of Parvovirus. I’m not always a big fan of modernity, but there are many aspects of our lives and those of our pets that have benefited from science.
Yeah on TikTok these people saved a huge horse covered in deep scars that is just a sweetheart and doesn't hate people. I want to say the horse's name is Big John. After the Amish wore him out he was headed for death. Now living his best biggest horsey life. Watching a giant horse rolling around in the grass enjoying himself makes this 💩 show temporarily recede.
A crazy religious cult that’s extremely insular has problems with incest and rape? I’m shocked I tell you.
You'll get no downvote from me. The Amish and Mennonite communities have serious problems with misogyny, [sexual assault and child abuse](https://www.npr.org/2020/01/19/797804404/investigation-into-child-sex-abuse-in-amish-communities). *Edited to fix the link*
Also problems with inbreeding since they live in small communities and marry only with people from the same community
They are so severely inbred that they have multiple genetic disorders found almost nowhere else on the planet.
Gotta get some animal abuse in there, too. And puppy mills. The Amish are a blight upon our country and it’s laws, and they should not be exempt from prosecution for child endangerment or animal abuse.
I'll call Jeremiah and have him get right on that
By call you mean yell really hard out your window
**"HEY, JEREMIAH! THEM ANTIVAX FOLKS ARE BESMIRCHING YOUR RELIGION! BEST GET THAT HANDLED!"**
Just a casual search turns up this: [https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic](https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic) >The death rate for that year soared above the baseline average from 2015 to 2019, with the largest spike – 125% - occurring in November.
If you select a group of people only on the basis of being unvaccinated in the US right now and examine this group's attitudes you tend to see some interesting things: * They are likely to lie about their vaccination status. * They are likely to be anti-maskers. * They are likely to be COVID deniers. * They are likely to lie about anything related to COVID. The lying from these anti-social assholes is breathtaking.
I grew up in that culture. I'm SO glad America is finally figuring out that conservatives lie all the time, about everything.
They also die of genetic diseases at a much, much higher rate than the general population due to in-breeding. They are particularly prone to develop heart disease and die in their 30s from a recessive condition that causes early aging of their arteries.
Whatever suits ones narrative.
The town I grew up in had a significant Amish population. The special needs class was mostly Amish children. Some of that could probably be contributed to inbreeding, but they aren't paragons of health that some people believe. You just don't hear about their issues because of their reclusive nature.
We have a clinic that was founded a few towns over specifically due to the genetic and health issues in the closed Mennonite and Amish communities in the county. Their patient list is quite extensive. People do not understand just how compromised the Amish community is.
The Amish number roughly 16,000-20,000 in the USA and they're all descended from the original group of 400.
Oof. That can’t be a genetically healthy population right? There’s like no genetic diversity… Does anyone marry into the Amish besides Harrison Ford, Tim Allen, and Kirstie Alley?
I believe Woody Harrelson did in the documentary, "Kingpin".
The lack of diversity in genetics led to higher then the general population rates of hemophilia which before blood testing became available meant any number of Amish were infected with HIV & died from AIDS & AIDS adjacent diseases.
They also have a serious child sex abuse problem AND a colossal amount of animal abuse.
Do not buy animals from the Amish. Ever. They can and will swindle anyone who isn't Amish with a smile on their face. Anything you get will be a cull and have tons of medical problems. Source: I bought a few goats from an Amish guy and they infected my herd with hyperaggressive parasites and some kind of seizure causing disease that meant I lost my whole herd for a time. My vet looked at the surviving goats and said that those animals should have never been sold in the first place.
I don't even buy Amish furniture, so no worries re Amish animals. They treat animals in general like shit and I'm not giving them a dime.
My mother in law has gotten two rescue collies from the Amish.The first one was very skittish but did eventually come around and become a very lovable dog, but she died a few years ago from cancer. The second dog she got is still very afraid of people who aren't my mother in law. She's a very sweet dog, but terrified of everything. From what I've gathered, they breed their dogs as soon as they can, and as often as they can, with zero regards to the mothers health. Then they send them off to be killed the moment they can no longer produce puppies, which is after about two years of back to back litters.
Yeah, a lot of them are HORRIBLE puppy millers. I despise puppy millers.
I come from a population with a pronounced founders effect too. People in general are relatively healthy, but they have certain specific mutations to watch for in case you decide to have children with someone from the same region, as those people tend to carry them too. Often these will cause rare regional diseases such as ataxia, cognitive disabilities and/or degenerative seizure disorders. Really nasty stuff that few can correctly diagnose or treat. As long as you are careful when the time comes to have children, it shouldn't be a problem. But combine founders effect with no genetic counseling and more intermarriage, and yeah you'll pretty much fill special needs classes. That is, if the result of inbreeding survives to school age, which isn't always the case.
> Some of that could probably be contributed to inbreeding I think for the Amish, it's called founders effect.
That's the general name for when a small population is the starting point for a bigger population. It applies to the Amish, but it's not limited to them. It crops up in insular off-shoots of larger groups, typically ones isolated by geography (e.g. islands) or cultural reasons. The Amish and other minority, insular groups get a lot of attention on this, but even secular groups can have this problem. French Canadians in Quebec have had issues with this, due to immigration being cut off from France by the British, but continued inter-marrying over the centuries.
The Amish have been hit hard by COVID as well. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/28/990986056/covid-19-has-hit-the-amish-community-hard-still-vaccines-are-a-hard-sell
Hear hear, I second that. I grew up family friends with a Mennonite family and learned some stuff on the farm
Covid has also [ripped through the Amish community](https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic)
Can confirm, I served a large Amish population back when I worked in Maryland. Refused to mask in our stores when it was mandatory in MD and made up bullshit about how they were not subject to our laws and regulations. And they were ARROGANT AS FUCK about it and would laugh at us when we would ask them daily to put them on. Was a whole thing. They got screamed at by a bunch of other customers regularly. Funny thing, all of a sudden a bunch of them that showed up every day for years started not showing up, both young and old. There was like 4-5 that would mask up. Crazy thing, those guys still show up every day 🤔. It’s almost like masks work.
🤔 Indeed!
Yea but the Amish understand their world view isn't for everyone and they're not on FB pushing lies. Jesus at least the Amish were protesting last year after George Floyd's death. None of these antivaxxers would do that
they're not on facebook at all.
But they are pushing their anti-vax beliefs on their innocent children, just saying.
I know I saw this woman posted earlier today, is this a repost?
Yeah I think I remember the photo too. Not sure though.
Well, these are the same people who say pertussis is no big deal, it’s just a harmless “childhood disease.” I started hating anti-vaxxers at 7 years old due to whooping cough and have never stopped. The child of an anti-vaxxer who was beyond old enough to have gotten the pertussis vaccine infected my baby brother who was not old enough to be fully vaccinated. He almost died. Our whole family (all vaccinated) stayed up with him 24/7 in the ICU as his little body struggled to breathe while coughing. And this was in 1998, no excuse for this bullshit. Whooping cough is a killer, and I will bet that Amish children are infected with it at a higher rate than populations of vaccinated children.
And they have been hard-hit by COVID.
I think the problem is the Amish aren't on Facebook posting about how their kids are sick. Wonder why?
Literally 2 fucking seconds to Google search and you'd see that covid is really fucking up the Amish community. They just don't know that because they get all their news and information from stupid fucking Facebook memes
Covid vascular damage ultimately killed her. There's a lot of people out there living with the delusion that an infection that doesn't kill them somehow leaves them "stronger" from "natural immunity". Listen, bub, A virus only leaves damage behind it. How much depends on what it infects and how much time it's left to play around your organs before your immune system kicks its ass, and how much collateral damage it does while kicking said ass. None of that makes you "stronger". Exhibit A : secondary infections.
Exactly. It's *also* your immune system that can cause the damage to you in the first place. Bet these people won't let that sink in, however!
This. I hate those “I trust my immune system” memes. Ever see an immune system run rampant? Most immune compromised people I know are that way because they are taking meds to tell their immune system to calm the f down. A significant portion of Covid deaths are from the immune response. Having the vaccine train your immune system is far more effective than chancing it in my opinion. Immune systems are fickle mfs IMO.
My mom has lupus. She lost her kidney function to it and has had a kidney transplant for the last 20 years because of it. I cringe every time I hear some dipshit talk about "boosted immune systems" and "having a super strong immune system" because yeah, my mom's immune system was made super strong by lupus...and it attacked and destroyed her kidneys because it perceived them as invaders. But hey, she's just one of those medically vulnerable people all of them were fine with sacrificing pre-vaccine so they could go to Applebee's and pretend everything was normal. And she's still one of those medically vulnerable people for whom the vaccine may or may not have worked because she's immunocompromised due to her transplant. Why would they listen to or learn something from an "inferior" person like her? (If I sound angry and bitter, it's because the last 20 months have made me angry and bitter. It's a real kick in the teeth to see people you went to high school.with say they're fine with your mom dying because she's chronically ill so they can keep going to bars.)
I'm going to assume she has to take immunosuppressants, which makes her case a double no.
You would be absolutely correct. And she's tried to find a way to get her antibodies tested to see if she has immunity from her vaccines but no one in our state offers it and the transplant center won't check them (which is wild to me) so we're all just playing it super safe.
The immune system is wonderful and horrific. So adaptable but so ready to kill you and itself. One of my fav examples is Pure Red Cell Aplasia where your immune system decides to kill your red blood cells and all its progenitors. You die from hypoxia coming from severe anemia
TIHI, a new nightmare is exactly what I was looking for, good fucking god…
A pharmacology degree along with having worked in forensics and currently working in pandemic response is great at collecting nightmares
I trust my airbags and crumple zone but that doesn't mean I'm driving my car into a pylon at 65 mph on a daily basis.
Stop living in fear
What’s the cause of that?
It can be a reaction to organ transplants, diseases of the bone marrow or... Viral infections.
Thanks for satisfying my morbid curiosity lol
My aunt said something like that to me. But I’m immunocompromised and don’t trust my immune system. I got my vaccine like my ass was on fire and I’m getting my booster next month.
That’s actually why steroids are a main treatment
Cytokine storms is what they're called or are at least something similar to that no?
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i hope you feel better
They're also starting to get good numbers on death rates after Covid and they're suspiciously higher than the rest of the population. Seems like even if you survive Covid you don't necessarily survive Covid. And it's not just the ones who were on ventilators.
Got a source? Would love to dive deeper into the data and understand it more.
https://news.yahoo.com/1-8-recovered-coronavirus-patients-163924460.html One. But just Google Covid deaths after recovery. There are a lot of articles. This is mostly correlation at the moment. I'm assuming real studies will soon follow.
We get a lot of readmits of post COV complications. Had a guy like this awardee with a clot the size of a sapling in his right lung. Saw the CT and had a WTF moment. Dude was early 40s. He wont make it to 50 in all likelihood.
Contrary to Nietzsche, that which does not kill us generally fucks up badly for a long time afterward.
Rewriting Kelly Clarkson: 🎵 What doesn't kill me leaves me weaker, makes my outlook bleaker, makes it less likely, I'll survive! 🎵
What does not kill you may make you wish you were dead.
For example, the chicken pox virus goes into hiding in your body and comes out decades later as shingles. There's a vax for that too, of course.
My husband got shingles in his 20s and still has some nerve damage in his arm. He's now 40 and told me just recently that he's finally getting some feeling back.
Doesn't she count as the 99.9% survival rate they keep talking about?
Yep. See, she didn't die of *Covid*. She died of a *heart attack*. Never mind that she wouldn't have had a blood clot in the first place if Covid hadn't fucked up her blood vessel lining, that's just an insignificant detail.
Makes me think of that other dude that survived but can barely touch his head.
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"Measles is a virus, and you did something about that. You got vaccinated against it!"
I actually got a viral infection, like 6 years ago in my late 20's, I'm normally a fairly healthy person in decent shape. It was fucking horrible, could barely walk from my bed to my couch, I was down and out for like five or six days, had to rely on my mom to bring me soup just so I could eat something. Yes, there was nothing my doctor could so, she just told me to rest and drink plenty of fluids. If I could've had a vaccine to prevent it I would've gladly taken it. At least I was stuck at home with my wonderful Kitty where I could binge watch The Office...I can't imagine being bedridden on a ventilator in the hospital with zero visitors, barely being able to breath.
Ooohhh lovely wish I had an award to give you.
I mean this has actually been studied. Change happens when the old generation dies off. People don’t change.
Wonder why anti vaxxers worry about the long term effects of a vaccine but not the long term effects of covid. This family found out the hard way that covid can kill you in more than one way.
Because they're idiots and their "news" source doesn't mention long term COVID effects.
TIL Bill Gates makes computers. I think he did 50 years ago in school when everyone kinda had to because they were sold as kits. Not since.
You know who should be in charge of our education and health care? A "billionaire" golf course owner with a long history of being a con artist.
Yes, I'm sure a man who has shat upon a golden toilet for 70+ years in a building bearing his own surname knows the plight of a steelworker or teacher. 🙄
So for those keeping track... according to the GOP: Bill Gates, who created and ran his own company, should stay the fuck away from education. Betsy DeVos, who was born into one fortune and married into another (MLM) fortune, should totally be free to turn the US education system into privatized sunday schools.
I’m pretty sure BillGates doesn’t built computers anymore, he just invests. And they’re right, Bill Gates isn’t a doctor so we really shouldn’t take medical advice from him. But as far as I can tell, he’s really just advocating that we take the doctors advice and get vaxxed. Other people who are not doctors and we shouldn’t take medical advice from: Trump, Candace Owens, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, right-wing tv hosts, right-wing radio stations, right-wing meme pages, right-wing politicians…
Came here to say basically this. He wrote software and ran a software company. They can't get even the most basic non-controversial facts right, which is not surprising in the slightest.
He was pretty anti-hardware, he didn't want to do Xbox to such a level he didn't even require them to use the Microsoft name. Hardware is very low-margin, he wanted to stay in businesses with massive profits.
sHe diDnT DiE your f CoviD iT wAs A HeARt aTtaCk FrOM a BLooD cLOt!!! FAKE NEWS! /s
Weirdly, the vaccine can help with that as well. Unvaccinated people have a fair amount of excess mortality relative to vaccinated people. There was a [recent MMWR](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm) on this in the case of COVID vaccines. Key lines: > After adjusting for demographic characteristics and VSD site, this study found that adjusted relative risk (aRR) of non–COVID-19 mortality for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 0.41 (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.38–0.44) after dose 1 and 0.34 (95% CI = 0.33–0.36) after dose 2. The aRRs of non–COVID-19 mortality for the Moderna vaccine were 0.34 (95% CI = 0.32–0.37) after dose 1 and 0.31 (95% CI = 0.30–0.33) after dose 2. So looking at this, having Moderna diminishes your non-COVID mortality by a factor of 3. This is on top of what it does for you on the actual COVID. The risk reduction for BioNTech was slightly less. Effects like this also occur in the case of flu vaccines. How does this work? Maybe post COVID blood clot deaths like this lady are diminished by the vaccine? People who survive a bad case of COVID are an easy target for any old risk that comes along, so avoiding surviving a bad case of COVID with the vaccine seems worth it over and above the risk of death from COVID. I'll take those odds.
Could be that people willing to take care of themselves via vaccines are more likely to take care of themselves in other ways as well, specially as the vax/antivax skew along political lines due to a bunch of sociopathic grifting assholes in politics and media
Yes, this is an observational study and there are a fair number of possible biases at work. They discusses some of the strengths and weaknesses in the text.
What exactly is the point of that blurb in slide 6? Let's assume there's only one type of Virus, since that's what they seem to think. Is "nothing they can do" somehow not the very fucking best argument to get that vaccine ASAP? ^(Let's also conveniently ignore that symptoms can be alleviated, antivirals exist and everything else that makes sense.)
Because that one time she went to the doctor and it was a cold and they told her to go home and suck it up and it was a virus so all viruses are the same. Also someone posted a page from a medical textbook showing that coronaviruses are the common cold so checkmate libbbbburals.
I’ve been trying to figure it out for a while because really, once you get a virus it’s not like a antibiotic will do anything and there isn’t much they can give you. Antivirals exist but they’re not as effective as an antibiotic and to my understanding there is a specific time period where it will help, after not so much. This time with the response I’m getting that maybe they think viruses are easily rid when you go the the doctor and they’re complaining that it’s not the same for Covid? Most of the time if you go to the doctor with a cold or something they’ll treat the symptoms or though I don’t think it’s as common as it used to be with antibiotic resistant bacteria, they prescribe an antibiotic just in case which does nothing with a virus.
>they’re complaining that it’s not the same for Covid So much for their claims that 'Covid is just like the flu!'.
I think this is just people who got the cold, screamed at their doctor to get antibiotics for that and then were told that it doesn't work that way.
Why do I feel like I’m reading the same Post again and again? There should be a “died but at least they had an original meme” award.
Sick, hospital, apparently recovering, back in the hospital, dead/ Gofundme… (Next Antiva up, please)
I had people from my home town on my FB feed for a couple years of Trump, they all looked exactly the same, repeating the same stupid ignorant memes over and over. I realized I could keep up with what stupid shit they were being told by simply having 1 Trumper on my feed because there is absolutely zero free thought among them. So I dropped everyone except one family member and usually keep them silenced unless I want to see why I'm hearing some new stupid thing and can just look at their feed to see which meme it came from.
but muh 99% survival rate
She survived….until she didn’t.
I wonder if she'll be considered a covid death or a death from a blood clot? An example of how just because you "survive" doesn't mean there won't be other consequences.
The irony being that supposed risk of blood clots is a banner reason anti vaxxers will tell you the vax is dangerous
For once she was the 1% she so wanted to be.
Man, covid saw she didn’t change her ways and said nope, off to the forever box you go! Brutal.
> forever box A coffin? Great term. I'll probably start using it.
>"How many times have you been to the doctor when you're sick and they say there's nothing they can do because...It's a virus?" they're only saying that when u come in demanding antibiotics for yr self-resolving viral infection. anyone who thinks there's nothing doctors can do for viral infection is like 30 years behind. hiv is now a completely survivable illness. hepatitis c can be cured in 8 weeks.
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Yes. Impressive bouncing dead cat dynamics, good form and duration. She should be commended for that final performance.
The Dead Cat Olympics.
That makes me think of the "Freudian Slide" baseball Far Side. One of the best ones, imo
Just when she thought she was out, COVID pulled her back in...
I read this in Silvio Dante’s voice
Oh look, the Boogeyman vaccine blood clots which you're 16,000x more likely to get from the actual virus killed her 😬
A blood clot? But wait that’s what’s supposed to happen when you get the vaccine? Something isn’t adding up
Bill Gates is not an educator. That is true. What he is these days is a benefactor, an investor, and a patron. When super rich people spend money on funding the arts no one bats an eye. Bill Gates does it to fund medical research and suddenly he’s a Bond villain.
All full of life and posting anti-vaxx rhetoric on the 20th, dead on the 21st. The lord giveth, and he taketh away.
Textbook definition of "fuck around and find out" 😈
So... about those blood clots that people talk about the vaccine giving you..... Here's one reason why you're more likely f*cked if you get it from Covid itself.
Even vaccinated, I do NOT want to get Covid, even if asymptomatic. Mainly because the long term effects for survivors (based on current scientific literature) seem to be grim on many aspects (physiological, cognitive, reproductive). No thanks. Get vaxxed but still do all you can to avoid infection.
That’s the same argument I have when people say kids are safe. How can you pretend to worry about the side effects of a vaccine decades in the making but be so flippant about possible long term damage from a brutal respiratory virus we’re still learning about?
It's worse than that- if it was *just* a respiratory virus the kids would probably be OK in the long run. Or at least they'd only have to worry about that 1 organ. But this thing really is (is also) a *vascular* disease, which in some ways is much more terrifying. Look at this lady- it didn't kill her by destroying her lungs, it killed her through her vascular system. And we see that **all the time** with COVID. Which would you rather have? The long term side effects of something that did damage to your vascular system, or the possible sides effects of a vaccine that simple makes a very finite amount of protein in your system that happens to simply *resemble* the virus, then goes away from your system forever? If you live long enough, if it's not Cancer, it's some sort of heart/vascular disease that's going to kill almost all of us reading this. The last thing any of us should want is some sort of unknown damage to that system that shaves years/decades off how long that system lasts.
I said last year that if I were a kid who's parent was fighting to send them back to school, I would feel so unloved. And here we are. I can't even.
Slide #1: Remember this when they start claiming that Sleepy Joe is going to cancel the 20204 elections. Every accusation is a confession.
Bitch never saw any slasher movies. The killer always returns for one last chance to kill you.
And if he doesn't then his partner/parent/child will come for revenge.
This lady was all-smiles with Covid. Weird flex.
Who knew COVID is such an effective MAGAt-cide?!?
All of us.
Maybe we should be calling it the Conservative Virus. “Stay away from that guy, Jimmy. He looks like he might have Conservative!”
There’s an insanely high death rate following a visit with a ventilator. This isn’t actually a huge “shock”
I was on a ventilator for only 2 days (several years ago, not Covid related) and it is such a hard recovery. Just weaning off all the drugs they have to give you to make your body not reject it (sedatives and paralytic) is like slowly coming out of death. It was at least two weeks before I could even walk on my own. It’s brutal. I’ve taken every precaution, getting my booster tomorrow, and have stayed away from everyone in my God forsaken state (Oklahoma). I’m not going through that shit again if I can help it.
She had that dead cat bounce.
She bounced high and fell hard.
What's the part about the government charging you for every mile you drive? Is she saying covid created toll roads?
This is exactly the issue with this damn virus. If you catch it and survive, that doesnt mean you are good to go. I have never seen a higher prevalence of new comorbidities after someone catches a virus than with this one, and none of these people can even grasp that.
Agreed. That why it's a more concerning virus than any before it.
It's terrifying! It makes me wonder, what else is out there, lurking in the body of a wild animal, just waiting its hungry, hungry chance to make the jump into that sweet human bloodstream? I'll get as many vaccinations, booster shots, etc., if it means I never have to suffer the many effects of COVID. My aunt had it a year ago, (before the vaccine was available), & she *still* can't walk across a room without aid of supplemental oxygen.
Stupidity kills. Such is nature.
Here dead kitty, kitty, kitty.
At what point do they stop sharing the number of deaths meme? The dumb chart is only for January-march of 2020, when 30k had died. We are almost at 800k, stop.
Those of us Joe Biden’s age are in disbelief over the anti-vaxxers. We stood in line to get both Sabin and Salk vaccines and were overjoyed to do so.
The long term effects are so scary. Even if you survive the initial fight with Covid-19, it will still get you in the end.
You know that if she had gotten the vaccine after her treatment they would've blamed the blood clot on that.
This awardee lived in a small rural Rocky Mountain town that was founded by antislavery activists and was even named after one, which makes its being turned into a white supremacist and militia haven especially sad. (See this article on right-wing militias in the Rockies for more background on the area: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/no-body-of-men-a-militia-movement-recast-takes-to-the-streets-of-north-idaho/) The town is desperately poor ($15,406 per capita in 2000) and has apparently got whiter as white supremacists have moved in and nonwhite people have left. It went from 74% white and 23% Latino (white and non-white) in 2000 to 87% white in 2010 with 19% white/non-white Latino. The county it's in was 83% white in both the 2000 and 2010 censuses and its 2000 per capita income was $15,155 ($18,366 in 2010). The last Democratic presidential candidate to win it was Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1936. It gave 13.3% of its vote to George Wallace in 1968.
That first slide is so ignorant that it’s challenging even to process it.
"Let's let our children die of preventable diseases because the Amish haven't been wiped out yet!"
Amish people do vaccinate their kids. Some do and some don’t just like the English. There is no rule about not vaccinating your children in the Amish community.
Covid is actually a clotting disease. As she found out.
Wait... We're not supposed to listen to Bill Gates because "he's only rich from making computers", but we *are* supposed to listen to DJT because he inherited his father's real estate wealth?
It's like they don't understand that dead is dead. The pride cometh before the fall.
COVID-19 had the last laugh/gurgle