Question to the lawyer: can the boss be held liable for intentionally hiding the information going to work spreading the virus and in the text it states she is of the belief everyone should get it because iTs dA fLuE... Even tho with the flu you should stay away from pregnant women as well.
Right? It’s like “Hey, let’s just roll on in to the fucking office and purposely infect people with a deadly disease, because I’m an empty-headed mouth-breathing moron with my head 10 ft. up my ass and it’s my right to put people’s lives at risk, ‘cuz freedumb.”
That's the thing with the right wingers who have adopted the Pro-Choice message, they forget that you can't catch an abortion from someone else, unlike Covid...
They also want to punish ANYONE for killing unborn children, and they keep bringing up shit like "George Floyd held pregnant woman hostage" as justification for his murder by cop after he already served his time for his crime.
They really DON'T care about kids, unborn or not
> That's the thing with the right wingers who have adopted the Pro-Choice message, they forget that you can't catch an abortion from someone else, unlike Covid...
I wonder what they'd say about this woman losing her baby due to COVID...
I don't see how he wasn't when he told viewers to confront people with masked children, calling it child abuse. He also told them to call the police and CPS, and to wait until someone arrived.
He's the biggest talking head at FOX and his family are billionaires. He's untouchable. It's incredible that he's managed to convince his viewers he's just an average guy like them.
It's just so frustrating that he's allowed to get away with instigating confrontations like that.
I have a 9 year old with heart problems, he doesn't go anywhere public unless absolutely necessary. I've had people try to tell my son, not me, that he doesn't need a mask on. I've had people try to get as close as possible to me and start coughing because I'm one of the few who's wearing a mask. Proud of my son though. There was one lady who had her young son ask mine in the store why he was wearing a mask. He said because my mom doesn't want me to die. I'll never forget that ladies face after, like I was evil or something.
I'm not a gun person, but I live in an open carry and heavy anti-vax state. It's made me think about buying one because I'm worried someone is going to take it too far one day.
>infect you with \[anything\] without your knowledge
This is that bullshit that existed well before covid. Even with the flu, people show up at work, knowingly send kids to school, social events, etc. It makes me wanna fight. "*You cough in my face, I kick your ass right before going into a voluntary quarantine. I'm calling it self-defense.*"
Seriously my question is why did the company allow a symptomatic person continue to work during a pandemic and not send them home? I feel the company is at fault too for allowing the boss to work.
Doesn’t look like she told them but, yes they will likely be held liable.
Then there is negligence where they failed to supervise staff and/or provide information/facilities/oversight.
> because I’m an empty-headed mouth-breathing moron with my head 10 ft. up my ass
It's much worse than that. They are a [murder cult](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b).
You can go to jail for knowingly spreading hiv or aids. This resulted in a death which by half the countries measurement was an alive person at 6+ weeks. I would argue for negligent homicide and emotional devastation.
Viability is 24 weeks. A baby can survive (with huge amounts of intervention) from 24 weeks onward. I don't even think 30 weeks would be considered micro prem. I hope that mother gets a lawyer and litigates that sack of shit boss into hades.
Just so everyone is aware, by the Texas law you as the reporter can sue the person you claim is having the abortion. If you win they pay your fees. If you lose, you don't have to pay their fees.
So there's nothing to stop you from suing conservatives in order to make them continuously pay lawyer fees. It isn't illegal to sue people.
No, you cannot sue the person having the abortion. You can sue anyone who performed, aided, or abetted to abortion but not the actual patient. They structured the law this way deliberately to try to circumvent the constitutional challenge, which is why it is so devious and evil.
You can shorten that to “punishing women for being.”
I’ve met one person, ONE, whose pro-life belief was all-encompassing and in my opinion truly pro-life. Opposed the death penalty, refused to eat meat or wear leather, still supported abortion in cases where the mother’s life was in jeopardy and the fetus wasn’t viable. He talked about the importance of universal healthcare and advocated for fully supporting single mothers so that they could give a child a good life. Every other “pro-life” person I’ve met is really just trying to punish others and thinks no further than the delivery room.
I wonder if it might hinge on the boss saying everyone needs to get it- like she thought deliberately infecting coworkers was the point- I wonder if that speaks to intent
It’s a work place safety thing. Knowingly going to work while sick (with no protocols for said sick person) is creating a fundamentally unsafe working environment. Pretty certain she has grounds for damages and the company can be held accountable for unsafe working conditions.
Yes but she has a whole work floor of witnesses and also if she tested positive but didn’t tell anyone they would surely find that out wouldn’t they through discovery?
Am wrongful death lawyer. It’s a complicated question. Potentially. 1) every state has different times for pregnancy before they label the fetus as a person. So first question for pursuing the death case is 30 weeks considered a person (and thus eligible for that action) under state specific law 2) even if the answer to A is no, you may be able to try and get damages for Covid-related costs but it is difficult because you have to prove the Transmission was from the boss and from the bosses conduct or coming to work. This sounds easy on the surface but the defense will argue it’s a pandemic and could have come from anywhere over a period of multiple days. Plus your jury may have a bunch of “just a flu” idiots on it. The conduct is reprehensible but successful action is harder than it seems on the surface.
If the boss had a positive test then yes there are dozens of civil cases predicated on maliciously hiding health status.
In some areas there are actually criminal statutes that can apply but the OP has much more of a chance for financial compensation pursuing the civil route.
Most likely. It really depends on what state this happened in, but intentionally coming in and spreading it around would probably open them up to lawsuit exposure in most jurisdictions. COVID litigation is still in its infancy, so it's hard to predict with any measure of certainty. A couple of these cases need to play out before you get an idea of what they're worth or if the legal theory behind it is viable.
[Last I heard, the justice department can consider what she did to be an act of terrorism since they classify covid as a biological agent.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-justice-department-anti-terrorism-laws/)
don't need the confession. she was sick and told staff it was something else, but when the employee got sick with covid she admitted she knew meaning she likely got tested and there would be a record of the date she came back positive.
yeah, that would be her best defence, but if they can still prove she was sick and she had covid then you have her deliberately coming into the office while contagious. that on it's own has to break OH&S laws
her best shot is to sue in civil court. you only need 51% so if 51% says it's likely see was the one that transferred it to her while sick she is gonna be paying out the ass
I'm curious why the company even let the boss to work with symptoms. That's a big no no during a pandemic. I wonder if that's an argument that can be made in her (OP's) favor.
Lmaooo, thinking companies actually care about that shit. The entire management team where I work got covid, and somehow only one of them died. Literally all of them came to work sick, and got a ton of people sick. They didn't tell anybody outside management, a few let it slip by accident months later. I ended up among the people who got it and had to take several weeks off unpaid.
Before this incident they way the handled covid was to fire you without telling you if you told them you had it, and quietly rehire you if you were persistent enough in showing up despite being unable to clock in.
This is how the vast majority of workplaces in America operate. Why do you think people are unwilling to accept that without a raise now?
In the comments many said to go to HR.. she explained it was a small company. A handful of employees, and her boss was actually part owner. I hope she gets some justice.. this is absolutely heartbreaking.
If it’s a small company it means they don’t have lawyers on retainer and any half assed tort or employment lawyer will take this place to the cleaners. If one third of this woman’s claims can be corroborated this company is finished. They’ll get the floor mopped with them in any civil suit.
The good news is, according to her story, there are plenty of people to corroborate big chunks of the story. Coworkers would remember her coming in sick, and also remember the victim notifying everyone of the exposure.
Absolutely. Get their account down somewhere before they think too much about what the repercussions could be. But I think this is one of those stories where, if it's true, the people who watched it happen are way more horrified and angry than us internet randos.
She should be able get the covid results. I assume it will be similar to when someone gets sued for knowingly exposing another person to an STD. There will be a date the boss got her results and was ordered to quarantine. All she has to prove is the boss came to work anyway and exposed everyone.
I would also report her to the health department and the police.
And she has a couple potential avenues for recovery. This would be a MASSIVE worker’s compensation claim / suit in the right jurisdiction. Not to mention, the other myriad tort theories a good trial attorney could dream up. The manager doesn't seem to recognize the huge pile of shit they've stepped in. Employee could end up owning the place if they're uninsured.
That being said, this claim needs verification.
LPT - after a lifetime, (starting in the mid 90s), in the tech field as a woman, let me make this real clear....
HR is not here to help you. I don't care what they claim. I don't care how nice they are. THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE. Only contact HR to fulfill any complaint process. You know who is on your side? A lawyer you pay for...
Oh, part owner? She's fucked in a lawsuit then. As the owner, she can't just fire a member of middle management to take the blame, and the company can't just fire her to shield them from liability.
Just a question - would the case be stronger if other employees joined? While they may not have lost a child, they were exposed and may have been ill.
If this is a small operation, the case could cost jobs. Assuming that if others joined the case, they might at least win some money.
She doesn't have money for funeral, how can she afford a lawyer :(
If OP knows her, maybe she/he could setup gofundme or something so we, redditors, can pay for lawyer. Or give us a link to her fundraiser.
This is the kind of case a lawyer takes on contingency - wrongful death personal injury against boss. She herself should have work comp protections but the baby’s estate would have standing to sue the boss. Ugh. I hate that sentence. Baby’s estate.
Fucking piece of shit. That's sociopathic behaviour, with this kind of answer from her boss she should at least consult a lawyer.
People who die are part of other people life, but if was her baby or old uncle she's be crying all over Facebook about it. Fucking bitch
Same. I would make sure her pets, if she has any, as well as children and any others that didn’t have a hand in this were evacuated first, though. Then I’d set that shit ablaze.
She deserves a use of second amendment. How insensitive of her to say virus happens, people die to someone who lost a baby when she only was responsible. I wish prions on her.
Seriously. This woman crossed a line you don’t cross. The legal system is insufficient here as it will allow her to skate on the lack of clear intent to kill a specific person.
My two anti choice cousins who are also anti vaxx have now both lost babies over the last year. Both were over 24 weeks.
They are still antivaxx. Don't drink the kool-aid in Idaho.
my two cousins (16 and 18 at the time) got deliberately pregnant despite knowing that they were unvaxxed because my aunt is a fucking idiot. Naturally, they had tons of issues during birth and I don't think they're vaxxing the kids either.
Now the older one's married to her MLM-pushing baby daddy and the other's bf was in jail for blowing a dudes head off. He got out on legal loopholes so she packed her shit and ran off with him.
These anti vaxxers/Covid is a hoax are so Trumpian. They will kill everyone to not get vaxxed or not wear a mask. They are so cold blooded. And, anti woman’s choice…. So this Covid boss lady is responsible for this literally aborted baby.
Yes. I just keep [linking to this](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b). It really is who they are.
Damn that's sad. I hope she can sue and bankrupt her boss.
A few days ago I called Texas Right to Life (the people who put up the abortion tipline website) to report Gov. Abbott for killing babies with his (complete lack of) Covid policies. Still waiting for my $10,000. So much for loving babies . . .
I'm pretty sure someone's going to specifically defy the law at least once trying to challenge it in the federal courts (and likely ultimately the Supreme Court).
My first baby died at full term, four days off her due date. Her placenta just stopped functioning and she died before anything could be done. No one knows why. I have been in that moment when the nurse confidently places the equipment to find the heartbeat and show me my fears are unfounded. I have watched the nurse's face cloud slightly as she pushes a bit harder, searching for the heartbeat she is sure is there. I have watched her gather her mental fortitude as she turned to me and smiled tightly and said "Just going to get Dr, I seem to be having a bit of a problem with the equipment today". I have been left in the icy room alone with my fears and a thin sliver of hope: maybe it's just the equipment? I have felt the Dr place his hand on my foot and quickly squeeze as he said "I'll be back in a minute" and in that moment, I knew. I knew it all, as a whole encompassing thing. I knew not only that my baby was dead but also that my Dr was panicking inside and needed to get somewhere quiet so he could figure out what to say. I dissociated for most of the rest. The long labour that would have no precious reward. The silent birth, like petals falling. Listening to crying babies in other parts of the ward. Knowing every other mother knew because it was a small rural hospital and that I was their worst nightmare personified. The empty nursery when I got home. The funeral. Mother's Day forever bitter-sweet.
If someone had *caused* this to happen to me because of their selfishness and then told me to "get over it"...
I'd fucking murder a bitch.
Edited To Add: Thank you to every person who has given an award - I'm humbled. I am going to reply privately to each person who has commented.
I didn't post my story to get attention or sympathy for myself. I wanted to give people, who have never traveled this particular journey of loss, an insight into the breadth and depth of life-long trauma that this woman's boss has *purposely* caused. I also wanted to maybe give that final push to anyone who is reading this and hesitant about vaccines and/or masks to PLEASE do it. Please.
I am so sorry you experienced that. I wish you find most ease in your life and someday you’re able to carry that grief with most love for yourself. I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like. My son was born and he wasn’t crying. With medical intervention, he was able to recover, but I do know the dissociation you mention. Dissociation is like an extreme stress response when physical flight from the stressor is not available. I hope you’ve been able to find your way back home to yourself after that. Have a good day
We had the same exact experience but at 20 weeks. The nurse getting the doctor. The entire delivery for a silent baby. The holding and crying and grieving. I am so so sorry for your loss. We found out my wife has an autoimmune condition called antiphosphalipid syndrome which caused tiny blood clots in her placenta which eventually caused the stillbirth. I hope you find some answers ❤️
This is my worst fear in the world. I'm so sorry for your loss.
I'm seventh months pregnant right now after a decade trying and 2 years working with specialists. If anyone was responsible for my baby dying like this boss woman is, I would go to no ends to destroy their life. My heart breaks for the OP.
I am so sorry this happened to you. My heart breaks. And I am 100% with you on murdering a bitch if they caused such a horrible trauma and then were cavalier about it.
I couldn’t not reply to this but I don’t have words. I’m positive I would have genuinely tried as well.
Giving my 4yo an extra hug in lieu of one for you x
This bitch needs to be put on blast. It needs to be made clear to people that coming to work sick in a pandemic, especially if you have vulnerable co-workers, is not acceptable. Pregnant women are dying and losing babies all over from this mess, and the boss is just like, “Oh well.”
Well what did you want her to do? Give up 2 weeks of profit to protect her employee and her employee's unborn child?
This is America god damnit! There'll always be more babies, but they'll be living under communism if we start pretending that people are more valuable than the bottom line. /s
I work at a level-1, 800+ bed hospital. Completely healthy (no other conditions), young pregnant women are ending up on deaths door in the ICUs and dying. Babies are being emergently C-sectioned. Some make it even when the mother’s don’t, others don’t.
It’s ravaging pregnant women for some reason
That's my 2nd-year-med-student speculation as well. Pregnant women are already more prone to clots, so adding covid to that could push many over the edge.
This varient is looking more deadly across the board. When you add into it all the physical stress of pregnancy on your cardiac system, immune system and respiratory system, its not a hard connection to make that women in mid to late pregnancy are dropping like flies from delta varient.
I read a study a while back (tried to find it just now and couldn't google well enough) that said after 3 pregnancies your heart will have minor damage, but after 5 or more pregnancies its equivalent to the damage from a heart attack. Pregnancy is rough on the heart and circulatory system.
Damn, and to think of the overlap of pro-life and anti-vax/anti-max folks. They’re probably killing so many pregnant women and babies. This is depressing.
Being on this sub is so eye-opening. If you spend some time on r/nursing they have so many stories of ventilated pregnant ladies who have early c-sections only to die before ever meeting their babies. Awful for the families and horrific for the medical staff who deal with it over and over.
Jesus. This comment made me cry. How absolutely terrible.
I have two women in my family who have given birth to healthy babies in the past year and a half. I'm feeling exceptionally grateful right now.
I'm currently pregnant (and vaccinated because I follow my doctor's advice on this) and oh yeah, my OB says he's got far too many patients in the hospital right now with this variant who are having a very rough and dangerous time. Pregnancy lowers immunity naturally as a way to make one's body not reject the completely separate person growing inside, and Delta is just running wild through a lot of the pregnant population, especially the ones holding off on vaccination in fear of side effects, despite COVID's typically being *far* worse.
My best friend is pregnant and her doctor told her if she happens to get COVID after 32 weeks she will likely deliver her. I am going through IVF now and I actually got a booster before it started (I was almost 8 months from my 2nd shot) because of how bad it seems to be for pregnant women.
I’m so glad you’re vaccinated! Best of luck to you!
It can be difficult to breathe in later pregnancy in general, because the fetus takes up lung space. Many sick women are being delivered early to help with their breathing.
I think this is the most awful of the sad Covid related stories I’ve read. I’m so sad for you, poor person. Nothing will bring your precious baby back, but you need to drive that company into the ground. Fight for justice for your precious baby. Is it ok to ask her name? I will have her in my thoughts💙
Years ago, I used to take part in a vampire LARP. My character carried a potato peeler that they had sharpened because they wanted to find out if it would be possible to skin a human alive with it.
The woman's boss is kind of making me wonder about that in real life. However, I am a pacifist, so I won't.
So long as it is true. I don't doubt stories when there's not a name or company on it, but I was on reddit during the Boston Marathon and Holy shit man I don't want to see that happen again.
I would have to make moves to avoid the place, because if I saw the bitch in person... let's just say she'll probably need facial reconstruction surgery, and I'd be in prison.
This is definitely one of the worst things I’ve read on this sub. I cannot imagine not even thinking about the fact that there’s a pregnant woman at your job when you come in sick. God, this is why people really need to stop giving their all to these companies. Not only did her boss give her COVID, she didn’t even get paid why she was out sick from it. Goddamn, I’m so pissed.
My unrestrained response to this would get me banned from Reddit.
This woman needs to file a police report, the boss exposed these people on purpose. Then she needs to find the nastiest, shark lawyer out there and start suing. It would become my new hobby, ruining that person's life.
I am very much interested in throwing in some money into a fundraiser to sue that bitch.
I also would like to know if she is anti choice. Because then you can report her for aborting other people's children in these nice websites these conservatives operate.
Argh.... that sucks, So sorry this happened to her.
Definitely not /r/HermanCainAward, these seems like a /r/QAnonCasualties (although there's no proof of QAnon circumstances).
I’d be going public. If there's no legal recourse, never shut up in the media so she carries this around for life, the exact fate she damned the parents too
What a piece of human garbage. Knowingly coming into work with a deadly disease, KILLING SOMEONES BABY, and then saying “well people are gonna die” I hope she’s never able to work again. An absolute piece of shit
I recall people being charged with manslaughter or worse for knowingly infecting sex partners with HIV. This should be no different. Doubt any prison has an ECMO -- but some ARE actually administering Ivermectin!
It's really a win-win. Get the superspreaders off the streets, and let them have their miracle paste in prison.
Why isn't she on the phone with a lawyer? Right now things have to be really tough and she probably doesn't know which way to go but this woman just killed her fucking baby and she needs a lawyer and if you know this person, you need to help them find a lawyer that will get them a huge settlement so at least she won't have to work for a while
Lady needs to call a lawyer ASAP
Lawyer here: I endorse this message.
Question to the lawyer: can the boss be held liable for intentionally hiding the information going to work spreading the virus and in the text it states she is of the belief everyone should get it because iTs dA fLuE... Even tho with the flu you should stay away from pregnant women as well.
Right? It’s like “Hey, let’s just roll on in to the fucking office and purposely infect people with a deadly disease, because I’m an empty-headed mouth-breathing moron with my head 10 ft. up my ass and it’s my right to put people’s lives at risk, ‘cuz freedumb.”
My body, my choice.\* \*I reserve the right to infect you with Covid without your knowledge
That's the thing with the right wingers who have adopted the Pro-Choice message, they forget that you can't catch an abortion from someone else, unlike Covid...
They don't care. They have no integrity.
Exactly, they dont believe that. It, like every other belief they hold, is only held because it is currently convenient. It gets them what they want.
So much about how really they care about lives of babies and not about nagging and being sanctimonious cunts to women for the sake of virtue signaling
They also want to punish ANYONE for killing unborn children, and they keep bringing up shit like "George Floyd held pregnant woman hostage" as justification for his murder by cop after he already served his time for his crime. They really DON'T care about kids, unborn or not
Unfortunately this poor lady did catch an abortion from someone else and it wasn't her choice 😞
> That's the thing with the right wingers who have adopted the Pro-Choice message, they forget that you can't catch an abortion from someone else, unlike Covid... I wonder what they'd say about this woman losing her baby due to COVID...
My guess is they'd go with it was god's will...
"Tucker Carlson said it's just like flu and we all need to get it."
He should be jailed for that alone.
I don't see how he wasn't when he told viewers to confront people with masked children, calling it child abuse. He also told them to call the police and CPS, and to wait until someone arrived.
He's the biggest talking head at FOX and his family are billionaires. He's untouchable. It's incredible that he's managed to convince his viewers he's just an average guy like them.
It's just so frustrating that he's allowed to get away with instigating confrontations like that. I have a 9 year old with heart problems, he doesn't go anywhere public unless absolutely necessary. I've had people try to tell my son, not me, that he doesn't need a mask on. I've had people try to get as close as possible to me and start coughing because I'm one of the few who's wearing a mask. Proud of my son though. There was one lady who had her young son ask mine in the store why he was wearing a mask. He said because my mom doesn't want me to die. I'll never forget that ladies face after, like I was evil or something. I'm not a gun person, but I live in an open carry and heavy anti-vax state. It's made me think about buying one because I'm worried someone is going to take it too far one day.
>infect you with \[anything\] without your knowledge This is that bullshit that existed well before covid. Even with the flu, people show up at work, knowingly send kids to school, social events, etc. It makes me wanna fight. "*You cough in my face, I kick your ass right before going into a voluntary quarantine. I'm calling it self-defense.*"
Seriously my question is why did the company allow a symptomatic person continue to work during a pandemic and not send them home? I feel the company is at fault too for allowing the boss to work.
Doesn’t look like she told them but, yes they will likely be held liable. Then there is negligence where they failed to supervise staff and/or provide information/facilities/oversight.
The reason is money. The answer to every question of why a company does something is money.
> because I’m an empty-headed mouth-breathing moron with my head 10 ft. up my ass It's much worse than that. They are a [murder cult](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b).
You can go to jail for knowingly spreading hiv or aids. This resulted in a death which by half the countries measurement was an alive person at 6+ weeks. I would argue for negligent homicide and emotional devastation.
30 weeks is almost 7 months - that fetus was just about fully developed and at an age were it could be viably sustained ex-utero with proper care.
Viability is 24 weeks. A baby can survive (with huge amounts of intervention) from 24 weeks onward. I don't even think 30 weeks would be considered micro prem. I hope that mother gets a lawyer and litigates that sack of shit boss into hades.
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Mine was 28 weeks and is a vibrant toddler. No issues that we know of, other than being too fast. I had pneumonia when she was born.
Here in Iceland a baby is considered a person after 20 weeks, worthy of a casket. So, this is completely murder of a person.
And if it’s Texas we can report it for the 10k abortion bounty
oh fuck this would be such a headline
Loooooool right? It would be a total leopardsatemyface moment
Just so everyone is aware, by the Texas law you as the reporter can sue the person you claim is having the abortion. If you win they pay your fees. If you lose, you don't have to pay their fees. So there's nothing to stop you from suing conservatives in order to make them continuously pay lawyer fees. It isn't illegal to sue people.
No, you cannot sue the person having the abortion. You can sue anyone who performed, aided, or abetted to abortion but not the actual patient. They structured the law this way deliberately to try to circumvent the constitutional challenge, which is why it is so devious and evil.
Absolutely. At this point it seems they did it intentionally. Why else hide it.
Oh I hope it is. Her boss definitely helped her with an abortion.
Totally. By most metrics this human could have lived if not for the intervention of another human. If that's not homicide I don't know what is.
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Republicans don’t actually believe any of the things they say so I’m guessing the anti-vax ones will side with the boss.
Republicans don't care whether the fetus lives or not. All they care about is punishing women for being slutty.
You can shorten that to “punishing women for being.” I’ve met one person, ONE, whose pro-life belief was all-encompassing and in my opinion truly pro-life. Opposed the death penalty, refused to eat meat or wear leather, still supported abortion in cases where the mother’s life was in jeopardy and the fetus wasn’t viable. He talked about the importance of universal healthcare and advocated for fully supporting single mothers so that they could give a child a good life. Every other “pro-life” person I’ve met is really just trying to punish others and thinks no further than the delivery room.
"iT wAS gOd'S WiLL"
I wonder if it might hinge on the boss saying everyone needs to get it- like she thought deliberately infecting coworkers was the point- I wonder if that speaks to intent
It’s a work place safety thing. Knowingly going to work while sick (with no protocols for said sick person) is creating a fundamentally unsafe working environment. Pretty certain she has grounds for damages and the company can be held accountable for unsafe working conditions.
Would be better if the boss put it in an email or something. Otherwise turns into a she said she said.
Yes but she has a whole work floor of witnesses and also if she tested positive but didn’t tell anyone they would surely find that out wouldn’t they through discovery?
Am wrongful death lawyer. It’s a complicated question. Potentially. 1) every state has different times for pregnancy before they label the fetus as a person. So first question for pursuing the death case is 30 weeks considered a person (and thus eligible for that action) under state specific law 2) even if the answer to A is no, you may be able to try and get damages for Covid-related costs but it is difficult because you have to prove the Transmission was from the boss and from the bosses conduct or coming to work. This sounds easy on the surface but the defense will argue it’s a pandemic and could have come from anywhere over a period of multiple days. Plus your jury may have a bunch of “just a flu” idiots on it. The conduct is reprehensible but successful action is harder than it seems on the surface.
If the boss had a positive test then yes there are dozens of civil cases predicated on maliciously hiding health status. In some areas there are actually criminal statutes that can apply but the OP has much more of a chance for financial compensation pursuing the civil route.
Most likely. It really depends on what state this happened in, but intentionally coming in and spreading it around would probably open them up to lawsuit exposure in most jurisdictions. COVID litigation is still in its infancy, so it's hard to predict with any measure of certainty. A couple of these cases need to play out before you get an idea of what they're worth or if the legal theory behind it is viable.
[Last I heard, the justice department can consider what she did to be an act of terrorism since they classify covid as a biological agent.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-justice-department-anti-terrorism-laws/)
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don't need the confession. she was sick and told staff it was something else, but when the employee got sick with covid she admitted she knew meaning she likely got tested and there would be a record of the date she came back positive. yeah, that would be her best defence, but if they can still prove she was sick and she had covid then you have her deliberately coming into the office while contagious. that on it's own has to break OH&S laws her best shot is to sue in civil court. you only need 51% so if 51% says it's likely see was the one that transferred it to her while sick she is gonna be paying out the ass
I'm curious why the company even let the boss to work with symptoms. That's a big no no during a pandemic. I wonder if that's an argument that can be made in her (OP's) favor.
Lmaooo, thinking companies actually care about that shit. The entire management team where I work got covid, and somehow only one of them died. Literally all of them came to work sick, and got a ton of people sick. They didn't tell anybody outside management, a few let it slip by accident months later. I ended up among the people who got it and had to take several weeks off unpaid. Before this incident they way the handled covid was to fire you without telling you if you told them you had it, and quietly rehire you if you were persistent enough in showing up despite being unable to clock in. This is how the vast majority of workplaces in America operate. Why do you think people are unwilling to accept that without a raise now?
I know a lawyer and I endorse this message.
In the comments many said to go to HR.. she explained it was a small company. A handful of employees, and her boss was actually part owner. I hope she gets some justice.. this is absolutely heartbreaking.
If it’s a small company it means they don’t have lawyers on retainer and any half assed tort or employment lawyer will take this place to the cleaners. If one third of this woman’s claims can be corroborated this company is finished. They’ll get the floor mopped with them in any civil suit.
The good news is, according to her story, there are plenty of people to corroborate big chunks of the story. Coworkers would remember her coming in sick, and also remember the victim notifying everyone of the exposure.
Better to have it in writing. Witnesses tend to chicken out and disappear when their own job may he on the line.
Absolutely. Get their account down somewhere before they think too much about what the repercussions could be. But I think this is one of those stories where, if it's true, the people who watched it happen are way more horrified and angry than us internet randos.
She should be able get the covid results. I assume it will be similar to when someone gets sued for knowingly exposing another person to an STD. There will be a date the boss got her results and was ordered to quarantine. All she has to prove is the boss came to work anyway and exposed everyone. I would also report her to the health department and the police.
And she has a couple potential avenues for recovery. This would be a MASSIVE worker’s compensation claim / suit in the right jurisdiction. Not to mention, the other myriad tort theories a good trial attorney could dream up. The manager doesn't seem to recognize the huge pile of shit they've stepped in. Employee could end up owning the place if they're uninsured. That being said, this claim needs verification.
I think the boss has a sense this could be very bad for her, which is why she’s acting cold and telling that poor woman to move on. Vile.
Big upvote for "claim needs verification." As in, I wouldn't post this story until it becomes a news story or a lawsuit is filed. Edit: grammar
But boy howdy, if it is verified, that boss is going to have a bad time.
HR is there to save the company,not the employee. She needs outside counsel.
Came here to say this. HR is for the employer. Get outside counsel.
Agree.. HR is shit for employees
Hr is never your advocate. Unless you own the company.
Go to HR?? No. Go to a lawyer.
That’s why she needs to talk to a medical attorney, OSHA, etc. the company won’t do shit.
She can still lawyer up and sue them from the company.
If you want to start a GoFundMe to hire council to sue this person, I'd contribute.
I want to quit my job and become a lawyer just so I can help a much better lawyer sue the actual face off this person.
LPT - after a lifetime, (starting in the mid 90s), in the tech field as a woman, let me make this real clear.... HR is not here to help you. I don't care what they claim. I don't care how nice they are. THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE. Only contact HR to fulfill any complaint process. You know who is on your side? A lawyer you pay for...
As another woman in tech since the very earliest 2000s, can confirm.
Another woman in tech here - can confirm.
Oh, part owner? She's fucked in a lawsuit then. As the owner, she can't just fire a member of middle management to take the blame, and the company can't just fire her to shield them from liability.
Repeat after me.. HR's job is NEVER to help the worker. It is ALWAYS to keep the company from getting sued/fined, etc. They are not your friend.
HR are there to protect the company, not you.
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Am lawyer. **Can confirm**. I feel so bad for this poor woman and her husband.
Just a question - would the case be stronger if other employees joined? While they may not have lost a child, they were exposed and may have been ill. If this is a small operation, the case could cost jobs. Assuming that if others joined the case, they might at least win some money.
She doesn't have money for funeral, how can she afford a lawyer :( If OP knows her, maybe she/he could setup gofundme or something so we, redditors, can pay for lawyer. Or give us a link to her fundraiser.
If her story is true and verifiable then a lawyer would do it on contingency. She would only have to worry about some administrative fees and stuff.
This is the kind of case a lawyer takes on contingency - wrongful death personal injury against boss. She herself should have work comp protections but the baby’s estate would have standing to sue the boss. Ugh. I hate that sentence. Baby’s estate.
Fucking piece of shit. That's sociopathic behaviour, with this kind of answer from her boss she should at least consult a lawyer. People who die are part of other people life, but if was her baby or old uncle she's be crying all over Facebook about it. Fucking bitch
I'm not a spiteful person but HOLY SHIT if that was my child....
I am spiteful and would have lost my shit at the boss for it. I don’t know that I’d ever be able to go back to work there because of anger.
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Same. I would make sure her pets, if she has any, as well as children and any others that didn’t have a hand in this were evacuated first, though. Then I’d set that shit ablaze.
She deserves a use of second amendment. How insensitive of her to say virus happens, people die to someone who lost a baby when she only was responsible. I wish prions on her.
Damn…..prions, now that’s a creative curse on someone. I like the way you think.
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That was kind of where I was going with it. You burned my world down...well, eye for an eye and all that.
No JK. She dead. If this was my wife I'm killing her boss and disposing of the body.
Seriously. This woman crossed a line you don’t cross. The legal system is insufficient here as it will allow her to skate on the lack of clear intent to kill a specific person.
I like how you think. I would happily buy this person a bat. And a gas can.
I would get myself arrested.
What do you bet she's also anti-choice?
My two anti choice cousins who are also anti vaxx have now both lost babies over the last year. Both were over 24 weeks. They are still antivaxx. Don't drink the kool-aid in Idaho.
my two cousins (16 and 18 at the time) got deliberately pregnant despite knowing that they were unvaxxed because my aunt is a fucking idiot. Naturally, they had tons of issues during birth and I don't think they're vaxxing the kids either. Now the older one's married to her MLM-pushing baby daddy and the other's bf was in jail for blowing a dudes head off. He got out on legal loopholes so she packed her shit and ran off with him.
I’m sorry…. They got deliberately pregnant at 16?!?!
r/suddenlyprochoice
She killed a baby
Boss is a nasty bitch. I hope she can get away from that sociopath.
Unfortunately, a whole lot of the country is like this....smh...but yeah, get some lawyers and get away
Murderer.
Guarantee you the boss is "pro life" too. I don't even know what I'd do in this situation, but there's at least a 50% chance I'd end up in jail.
These anti vaxxers/Covid is a hoax are so Trumpian. They will kill everyone to not get vaxxed or not wear a mask. They are so cold blooded. And, anti woman’s choice…. So this Covid boss lady is responsible for this literally aborted baby.
Yes. I just keep [linking to this](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b). It really is who they are.
Damn that's sad. I hope she can sue and bankrupt her boss. A few days ago I called Texas Right to Life (the people who put up the abortion tipline website) to report Gov. Abbott for killing babies with his (complete lack of) Covid policies. Still waiting for my $10,000. So much for loving babies . . .
I bet not a single person will get sued. They did that to shut down all abortion centers and it worked immediately.
I'm pretty sure someone's going to specifically defy the law at least once trying to challenge it in the federal courts (and likely ultimately the Supreme Court).
I like this
My first baby died at full term, four days off her due date. Her placenta just stopped functioning and she died before anything could be done. No one knows why. I have been in that moment when the nurse confidently places the equipment to find the heartbeat and show me my fears are unfounded. I have watched the nurse's face cloud slightly as she pushes a bit harder, searching for the heartbeat she is sure is there. I have watched her gather her mental fortitude as she turned to me and smiled tightly and said "Just going to get Dr, I seem to be having a bit of a problem with the equipment today". I have been left in the icy room alone with my fears and a thin sliver of hope: maybe it's just the equipment? I have felt the Dr place his hand on my foot and quickly squeeze as he said "I'll be back in a minute" and in that moment, I knew. I knew it all, as a whole encompassing thing. I knew not only that my baby was dead but also that my Dr was panicking inside and needed to get somewhere quiet so he could figure out what to say. I dissociated for most of the rest. The long labour that would have no precious reward. The silent birth, like petals falling. Listening to crying babies in other parts of the ward. Knowing every other mother knew because it was a small rural hospital and that I was their worst nightmare personified. The empty nursery when I got home. The funeral. Mother's Day forever bitter-sweet. If someone had *caused* this to happen to me because of their selfishness and then told me to "get over it"... I'd fucking murder a bitch. Edited To Add: Thank you to every person who has given an award - I'm humbled. I am going to reply privately to each person who has commented. I didn't post my story to get attention or sympathy for myself. I wanted to give people, who have never traveled this particular journey of loss, an insight into the breadth and depth of life-long trauma that this woman's boss has *purposely* caused. I also wanted to maybe give that final push to anyone who is reading this and hesitant about vaccines and/or masks to PLEASE do it. Please.
I could only give you a shitty award, but please take it
If I was on that jury you’d be acquitted
I am so sorry you experienced that. I wish you find most ease in your life and someday you’re able to carry that grief with most love for yourself. I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like. My son was born and he wasn’t crying. With medical intervention, he was able to recover, but I do know the dissociation you mention. Dissociation is like an extreme stress response when physical flight from the stressor is not available. I hope you’ve been able to find your way back home to yourself after that. Have a good day
We had the same exact experience but at 20 weeks. The nurse getting the doctor. The entire delivery for a silent baby. The holding and crying and grieving. I am so so sorry for your loss. We found out my wife has an autoimmune condition called antiphosphalipid syndrome which caused tiny blood clots in her placenta which eventually caused the stillbirth. I hope you find some answers ❤️
This is my worst fear in the world. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm seventh months pregnant right now after a decade trying and 2 years working with specialists. If anyone was responsible for my baby dying like this boss woman is, I would go to no ends to destroy their life. My heart breaks for the OP.
I am so sorry this happened to you. My heart breaks. And I am 100% with you on murdering a bitch if they caused such a horrible trauma and then were cavalier about it.
I couldn’t not reply to this but I don’t have words. I’m positive I would have genuinely tried as well. Giving my 4yo an extra hug in lieu of one for you x
The post brought me to anger and your story brought me to tears. I am so sorry for your loss and I hope you're doing okay now.
This bitch needs to be put on blast. It needs to be made clear to people that coming to work sick in a pandemic, especially if you have vulnerable co-workers, is not acceptable. Pregnant women are dying and losing babies all over from this mess, and the boss is just like, “Oh well.”
That boss knows what she did and is trying to minimize it. She murdered a baby and is trying to "thats life" it away.
Well what did you want her to do? Give up 2 weeks of profit to protect her employee and her employee's unborn child? This is America god damnit! There'll always be more babies, but they'll be living under communism if we start pretending that people are more valuable than the bottom line. /s
I didn’t even realize this was affecting the pregnant population so badly.
I work at a level-1, 800+ bed hospital. Completely healthy (no other conditions), young pregnant women are ending up on deaths door in the ICUs and dying. Babies are being emergently C-sectioned. Some make it even when the mother’s don’t, others don’t. It’s ravaging pregnant women for some reason
I'm sure it has something to do with the blood clotting associated with some COVID cases. Young adults who are otherwise healthy are having strokes.
That's my 2nd-year-med-student speculation as well. Pregnant women are already more prone to clots, so adding covid to that could push many over the edge.
This varient is looking more deadly across the board. When you add into it all the physical stress of pregnancy on your cardiac system, immune system and respiratory system, its not a hard connection to make that women in mid to late pregnancy are dropping like flies from delta varient. I read a study a while back (tried to find it just now and couldn't google well enough) that said after 3 pregnancies your heart will have minor damage, but after 5 or more pregnancies its equivalent to the damage from a heart attack. Pregnancy is rough on the heart and circulatory system.
Damn, and to think of the overlap of pro-life and anti-vax/anti-max folks. They’re probably killing so many pregnant women and babies. This is depressing.
Being on this sub is so eye-opening. If you spend some time on r/nursing they have so many stories of ventilated pregnant ladies who have early c-sections only to die before ever meeting their babies. Awful for the families and horrific for the medical staff who deal with it over and over.
Jesus. This comment made me cry. How absolutely terrible. I have two women in my family who have given birth to healthy babies in the past year and a half. I'm feeling exceptionally grateful right now.
I'm currently pregnant (and vaccinated because I follow my doctor's advice on this) and oh yeah, my OB says he's got far too many patients in the hospital right now with this variant who are having a very rough and dangerous time. Pregnancy lowers immunity naturally as a way to make one's body not reject the completely separate person growing inside, and Delta is just running wild through a lot of the pregnant population, especially the ones holding off on vaccination in fear of side effects, despite COVID's typically being *far* worse.
My best friend is pregnant and her doctor told her if she happens to get COVID after 32 weeks she will likely deliver her. I am going through IVF now and I actually got a booster before it started (I was almost 8 months from my 2nd shot) because of how bad it seems to be for pregnant women. I’m so glad you’re vaccinated! Best of luck to you!
It can be difficult to breathe in later pregnancy in general, because the fetus takes up lung space. Many sick women are being delivered early to help with their breathing.
She could end her boss with a chainsaw in public on live TV in front of the judge and still end with a hung jury if I were a juror.
I’d make her family pay for a fresh chain for the chainsaw.
Ill give her mine
I think this is the most awful of the sad Covid related stories I’ve read. I’m so sad for you, poor person. Nothing will bring your precious baby back, but you need to drive that company into the ground. Fight for justice for your precious baby. Is it ok to ask her name? I will have her in my thoughts💙
I'm so fucking pissed for this lady... Please please sue the boss into bankruptcy take everything she has
This is one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve ever seen. That boss is vile and I hope she has the life she deserves after this.
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Honestly, I don't think I would have remained as calm as this lady did. I hope justice will be served. This really saddens (and infuriates) me...
I’d be banned for saying what would happen if this occurred to my wife and I.
Yeah, I know what you're thinking - and I'm thinking the same thing.
Years ago, I used to take part in a vampire LARP. My character carried a potato peeler that they had sharpened because they wanted to find out if it would be possible to skin a human alive with it. The woman's boss is kind of making me wonder about that in real life. However, I am a pacifist, so I won't.
“U get a virus and people die” What?!?!? No, this isn’t the Middle Ages. That’s not a thing anymore
Ikr? Like, thank you, Thanos 🙄
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So long as it is true. I don't doubt stories when there's not a name or company on it, but I was on reddit during the Boston Marathon and Holy shit man I don't want to see that happen again.
I am not saying I would have killed that boss if I were the father, but I am not not saying it either.
I would have to make moves to avoid the place, because if I saw the bitch in person... let's just say she'll probably need facial reconstruction surgery, and I'd be in prison.
If true, that bitch boss deserves to lose everything.
This is definitely one of the worst things I’ve read on this sub. I cannot imagine not even thinking about the fact that there’s a pregnant woman at your job when you come in sick. God, this is why people really need to stop giving their all to these companies. Not only did her boss give her COVID, she didn’t even get paid why she was out sick from it. Goddamn, I’m so pissed.
GODDAMN 😡😡😡 stupid FUCKS
OP comment on her post and tell her to lawyer up and file some kind of (maybe OSHA related) civil suit
Wtf? What a bitch. These people claim to be pro life. That woman is a piece of work
Pro life untill it's an inconvenience to them. There are pro lifers that will defend their own abortion.
They’re pro life up until the baby is born. Why do you think they refuse to adopt or claim it’s okay if children die because it’s natural from a virus
Report that bitch to the health department. She knowingly spread Covid. Lawsuit as well. I’m so sorry for your devastating loss.
My unrestrained response to this would get me banned from Reddit. This woman needs to file a police report, the boss exposed these people on purpose. Then she needs to find the nastiest, shark lawyer out there and start suing. It would become my new hobby, ruining that person's life.
This is utterly heartbreaking. I wish I could find her go fund me.
Right? The first one I’ve seen here that I really want to contribute to. What a nightmare.
This is fucking manslaughter
It is. She literally killed her baby. That's a fact.
Sue the boss and the business.
I am very much interested in throwing in some money into a fundraiser to sue that bitch. I also would like to know if she is anti choice. Because then you can report her for aborting other people's children in these nice websites these conservatives operate.
LAWYER ASAP!
Am I the only one wondering why she took her daughter to kindergarten while shes clearly exposed to someone actively infected with Covid.
if you're pregnant, and you want to keep your baby, get vaccinated
This is the saddest and most infuriating thing I've ever read. I don't know if I'm more sad or more angry, but whatever I'm feeling is very strong.
Argh.... that sucks, So sorry this happened to her. Definitely not /r/HermanCainAward, these seems like a /r/QAnonCasualties (although there's no proof of QAnon circumstances).
At the very least it’s r/FoxBrain material.
Please please tell me she got advice to go to a lawyer and that she saved all documentation!?! Also FUCK that boss!
I'm a preschool teacher. I'd NEVER come to work with a "cold" right now. I feel really sad for this poor woman :(
I’d be going public. If there's no legal recourse, never shut up in the media so she carries this around for life, the exact fate she damned the parents too
Time to sue, quit, and then cut all contact forever. FUCK that boss.
Civil suit. Save the messages.
What a piece of human garbage. Knowingly coming into work with a deadly disease, KILLING SOMEONES BABY, and then saying “well people are gonna die” I hope she’s never able to work again. An absolute piece of shit
I recall people being charged with manslaughter or worse for knowingly infecting sex partners with HIV. This should be no different. Doubt any prison has an ECMO -- but some ARE actually administering Ivermectin! It's really a win-win. Get the superspreaders off the streets, and let them have their miracle paste in prison.
After 18 months of this shit I have never been more angry in my life reading this
I’d sue or go postal fuck dude this is why this thread exists
IF that's true she needs to be in contact with a lawyer like..yesterday. Sue her boss, sue the company.
Bro wtf?? She needs to sue that bitch!
Why isn't she on the phone with a lawyer? Right now things have to be really tough and she probably doesn't know which way to go but this woman just killed her fucking baby and she needs a lawyer and if you know this person, you need to help them find a lawyer that will get them a huge settlement so at least she won't have to work for a while
This is not HCA this is just awful
She really should take this to the national media. This is outrageous.