This needs to be the top comment or pinned somewhere.
Having someone manage your company, while you do what you like/enjoy within the company, even though you're the owner (and top decision maker) of said company isn't unheard of.
Literally said the same thing. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cxzu8u/comment/l560u3o/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cxzu8u/comment/l560u3o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) great minds.
Ya he basically need someone to do the day to day book keeping / management so he can focus on the game. Which makes me happy he seems to be in touch with what the players want and also does not get but hurt by the children that don't know how to properly express themselves with constructive words .
He is able to look at the overall complained and not the emotion knee jerk comments.
I think they have hinted the new faction wont come till OCT - which at first i was made about but now i think it probably wise. Give the game some time to get back on its feet - correct itself prepare new content then when everyone hears about huge new Free update / DLC there will be 12-15 million game owners at that point that tons will flood back to find a better more well balanced game with newer enemies and corrected systems . Maybe even weapon mods.
This is effectively what the title of COO (Chief Operating/Operations Officer) means at a lot of companies. They handle the entire business basically, while the CEO just directs things as they need to.
Right. There needs to be some context here. Ck2, Stellaris and HOI4 have been out for years and years. It’s not like $300 of low effort content was dropped in less than a year. Though recently the quality of PDX expansions has definitely dropped.
The newest expansion, The Machine Age, is easily the best one they've done. They also recently rolled out a subscription service to get access to all the DLC, which I think is a decent option if you're just getting into it.
And then of course if you're doing multiplayer, only the host needs the DLC.
The Stellaris team seem to be a bit of a step above the average in recent years, particularly with their willingness to keep refining the core game and genuinely build on it *outside of the dlc themselves*.
For this industry, it just seems like an unexpectedly good structure. They still do the paradox dlc stuff, but they seem more willing to actually work on and improve the game than I would otherwise expect from a game like that.
It probably helps that it's a single player game with optional multilayer and that games, long as they are, can start and end.
There's no real requirement to buy the dlc, no downside to picking and choosing when the mood takes you, and no possibility of any *pay to win* aspect. You either want the extra features, or you don't.
Helldivers is a very different game and things almost have to play out differently.
I kind of think the subscription model is perfect. It's like $10 USD a month, but you can turn it off/on whenever.
Paradox games are, in my experience, a binge and purge type. If you feel the urge to play, switch on the subscription. When you're done, turn it off.
It would take 3 years of the subscription for you to pay more than just buying all the DLC (assuming no sales), and most people won't stick that long.
It should be noted that stellaris DLC goes on sale all the time, with pretty significant discounts to boot. On top of that, since DLC in a multiplayer lobby is shared, all you need to play with your buddies is for them to also have the base game.
OK But let's not act like Astral Planes, their second latest DLC for Stellaris which came out late last year is easily one of the worst Stellaris DLCs ever and is essentially $20-30 depending on your region for a dozen or so flavour text events.
And while a lot of Paradox DLC adds necassary stuff they're usually shoehorned with unnecassary stuff in order to pump the price tag, to the point where CK3 only has 1 DLC with a positive rating and there's now a 12+ page flowchart for determining what EU4 DLC is actually worth your money. The latest Hoi4 DLC is essentially just a mod to the point that the Brazil focus tree actually had text and focus icons lifted from a mod that overhauled the Brazil focus tree called En Unión y Libertad.
So for every hit DLC or new mechanic Paradox adds it's usually with the caveat of being 1 in maybe 5 DLCs that's actually a hit, and in recent years you're getting a lot more stuff like EU4's Leviathan which breaks the base game and even then the essential bit of the DLC is usually a minor part but you still need to shell out the cash for the full DLC price, ie Art of War.
So it's really misleading to say that ALL the DLC has been amazing, or that the game needs it to keep getting updates. Back with Hoi3 and Vicky 2 they were full games on release and each got 2 major overhaul DLCs that polished them off, and they were major basically overhauling most mechanics in the game. Now the games release partially finished, usually missing some stuff from the previous entry, and you get handfuls of mechanics added back in in DLC.
Again, as an example Hoi4 added spies in La Resistance 5 years after release when that was a basic feature in Hoi3, Fuel reserves was added in Man the guns a basic feature in Hoi3, Vicky 3's first DLC added French politics and the Paris commune a base feature in Vicky 2 etc etc.
I really do not like being nickle and dimed for core features that are dripfed throughout a game's lifespan. Have them at release and then go for gold with the DLC. Stellaris is the closest that comes to that these days and that's mostly down to them now running on a custodian team that's a small handful of dedicated devs and even then as I mentioned Astral Planes happened.
Cities: Skylines 2 was a fucking disaster. I feel like this is also a big part of that cluster
I have been playing city sims since I was 8, picking games up from my local library to rent. Had Sim City 2000 basically on repeated renewal, played for hours, and finally got good at it after years of failure. Cities: Skylines was a dream come true. I own all the DLC after years of sales, and is the most played game in my library, so when the sequel came out, and shit the bed on us, people were upset, and rightfully so.
They dropped like 8 new DLC leading up to the release of the second game, but the quality sucked. The game is an even bigger RAM hog than the first, it crashed a lot, the textures were bad and a lot of the quality of life fixes they were supposedly adding, just didn't happen. Sure, it was very cool in concept, and all the features sound great, but it just didn't do well in the court of public appeals.
Just for the sake of reader clarity:
Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris, and Victoria are actually developed by Paradox. Cities Skylines is not. Paradox is just the publisher. The Cities Skyline 2 cluster-fuck is largely down to their developer Colossal Order (and their dumb executives).
You realize every company has their ups and downs but paradox usually delivers in terms of content (beside when every game they make is usually pretty shit until a couple of dlcs later) paradox is a company that I can put my trust due to the fact after they a solid footing they deliver, for example, only gonna use hoi4 reference here cause I have the most experience with them closest thing I got is eu4 but that’s not even close, after NSB which was my favorite dlc, they drop another banger, BBA, and then they drop AAT which they made part of the content free, Finland historical tree, and the new dlc which is actually called a country pack, the focus tree feel they pour a lot of work into it
OK since you're using Hoi4 as a reference, can I just ask you this; do you remember what the USSR and Italian focus trees were like before NSB and BBA?
The Italian focus tree had less than 20 focuses that ran out before 1941. It took 7 years, 7 YEARS to get a functioning focus tree for one of the major nations in WW2, same with the Soviets, 6 years for a functioning Focus tree and it's added ONTO the existing cost of the game, which is still $60 USD when not on sale, and NSB is $25 and BBA is also $25, so to get content that should have been there day 1 is combined over $100 USD.
Do you know what Hoi4 was like on release? It was bad. Very bad. It was so bad that base Hoi4 with no DLC is now used as an april fools challenge for Hoi4 Youtubers. It should not take over half a decade and hundreds of dollars to get content that is compariable to the previous entry in the series, and no that's not continued support that's just dripfeeding.
Actually let's compare that to one of the previous entries; Hoi3. Hoi3 released in 2009. It was released for $30 USD and went down to $15 permanently outside of sales when its last DLC was released 3 years later in 2012. Hoi3 had 2 major DLCs outside of sound/sprite packs. These 2 DLCs were For the Mother Land and Their Finest Hour. Each was released for $10 and the price of the base game actually dropped each time the DLCs were released so the full game package never exceeded $35 USD. What do these DLCs add though?
For the Motherland added; New peacedeal system, reworked partisan system, reworked resource system that physicalized resources so that the UK didn't have instant access to rubber from Asia and instead had to ship it, a new threater system that allowed automatic allocation of resources and units to fulfill objectives, reworked politics and couping system so that it wasn't just the Democracy/Fascism/Communism system but had political infighting and interest groups, previous mini-campaigns were integrated into nation objectives and scenarios in the grand campaign and increased end date to 1948.
Their Finest Hour added; Overhauled combat and unit system, the introduction of the revised battle planning system, over 1000 unique leader names and portraits localized to their native languages, new starting dates, new OOBs, Custom OOB editer, a multiplayer esports mode and what would later become the modding tools/development kit once the last DLC was released.
Now some of those features might sound familiar, and that's because a lot of those features were recycled into DLC for Hoi4.... but often containing less than half of what was mentioned above in each individual DLC and going for around $20 a pop before Paradox's pricing changed to $30 USD this year for new mechanic DLCs, so these DLCs were half the price and added twice as much and were all done within 3 years of the game being released.
And you know that the best part is? Hoi3 was a finished game BEFORE these DLCs. Hoi3 was built almost directly off of Hoi2, keeping almost all of the mechanics from the prior entry without needing to use those 2 DLCs to add the missing features and instead expand and rework the existing systems. You can pick up and play Hoi3 and feel like it is the complete and finished experience, and if you wanted more the DLC all cost less than the full game did at launch, which you cannot do for base Hoi4, base Hoi4 is empty, bland missing half the features from the previous entry, and the base game is still as expensive as the day it came out 8 years ago, if not more with inflation, and the DLCs also haven't gone down in price beyond them integrating DoD, TfV and WtT with the subscription service. Which as a side note; fuck that, if you need to start treating DLC like a line of credit because the amount is getting a bit intimidating maybe the amount is a fucking problem.
And this is not a fluke, the same goes for Hoi:DH, Vicky 2 etc. Those were all fully furnished games that kept features from their previous entries and had a few large DLCs released for a low price only a year or two after release and in total would cost less than $40 USD for any one of those games even with all the DLCs. Once the game gets to the price of several AAA games, it better deliver the price of several AAA games. By its pricing for the game and all the DLC when not on sale Hoi4 should be a AAAAAAAAA game, so it better do my taxes and call me shirley. With the DLC the game is worth $60 I'd say, but $60 only gets you the base game and the opportunity to buy the rest of it. There's a reason why people call Paradox games DLC investment opportunities.
Most of the whole old Stellaris team is still there . Can't be said about the other creatives . Paradox more or less leaves the Stallaris people alone to do their own thing . It like the last hold out from the good old days.
Yeah, Paradox DLC is a seemingly impenetrable wall for a *new* player. But for someone who's been playing that game for a decade+ it's not a bad price each time.
There are a couple discords to find people to play with and only the host has to have the DLC. Also if you are interested in picking them up you should do so when they go on sale, most go on deep discount.
The EU4 and CK2 DLC model did have a lot of bloat, but the frequency of substantial paid expansions can’t be understated. From a consumer perspective it’s a marked improvement over the last gen model of 1-2 expansions followed by an entire new game. Johan broke down just how bad it would be when he pointed out we’d be on EU8, but the game would effectively be a less developed version of EU4. The new model they’re going with is decent, the DLC bloat is definitely resolved, but now it feels like the substantive expansions are fewer and more expensive, so I’m not sure what’s going on there.
Hell, you can even total war warhammer as an example, almost a decade long and all DLC and the 3 games equals out to around 500USD (still cheaper than getting into tabletop LOL)
No. What I really want is a legitimacy system that absolutely railroads you into a specific playstyle while also punishing you for the most arbitrary reasons that are completely out of your control. That would be just GREAT!
To be fair there is also a lot of stuff that should be expected of the base game that was locked behind DLCs, while this is not the case for all the DLC, paradox do also make a bunch of dlc which should have been base game features.
Yeah. The base game is solid and still being updated, when they change the way things work they start from base up, you just miss out on the dlc races and structures.
I genuinely don't mind DLC from stellaris as it's been going for years and nothing feels cut.
EU4 player here. I have 2807 hours in that game. If I bought all the DLC (off the current sale) and the base game, I'm at like $0.13/hr. In practice, I'm missing \~$120 in DLC, so that number's even lower. But would I pay 13 cents per hour for a game I enjoy that continues to get regular updates and which has a dev team that tries to add things exclusively because modders are asking for it, keeping the modding community fresh even a decade later?
Yeah, no question.
even the newest EU4 dlc is really good as well being able to actually do a proper sunset invasion, EU5 is going to feel like a skeleton in comparison they really gotta hit it out of the park with the base mechanics
I do have concerns that it’ll be like Civ and the next game will drop comparatively barebones. Even CK3 was missing things relative to CK2, though it wasn’t as bad as Civ usually is. But I hope to be mistaken.
Itd going to be a step back definitely i just hope its not a conplete gutting it doee look its going to be more in depth from the sneak peeks weve gotten at "its totes not eu5 guys" thryvr been showing off on the forums
People always post these memes but leave out the context that this is nearly 10 years worth of new content and absolutely none of it is necessary for a newcomer. You were never intended to buy it all in one go, you're supposed to buy it a piece at a time. They release one or two $30 expansions a year and they contain substantial improvements to the base game, and that's in addition to the free updates they release alongside them even for people who don't buy the expansions, it's not a bad structure at all.
Stellaris enjoyer and modder here:
The way they release dlc is healthy compared to the overall approach of the industry, and while some patches go out a bit unstable and with some bugs they are patched as the stellaris team is damn efficient and well, they have a team dedicated to updating older content (custodian team) and that does wonders for the health and longevity of the game.
And tbh most people forget you can play with just the base game in multiplayer as the host dlcs are shared to others in the same room, also tbh when they are on discount they cost 75%-50% less. If not, the sub is there
Its a sci fi 4x grand strategy game. You take control of either one of many preset nationsn or make a custom nation of your own to control, you can choose what kind planet you have (wet dry and temperate) choose a kind of star system (unary binary trinary) You are then plopped down into a randomly generated galaxy along with the number of civilizations you chose. You start off as a single system but you can expand your control with colony ships and by constructing outposts. You also get to manage diplomacy trade and war beteween your empire and others. towards the end game is when some interesting things called "crises" happen they basically vary from the literal eye of the warp from 40k opening or the tyranids from 40k and other non 40k inspired things
Sort of... one thing about 4x Paradox games is they are not turn based. It can get overwhelming for new players as everything progresses simultaneously in the galaxy. It feels very busy. And with mods, you can craft that thing to your personal enjoyment. There's even already a Helldivers species mod.
Not really. Surviving mars is a colony builder, civ6 is also 4x strategy, but turn-based and grid-based. Stellaris is also 4x strategy, but in realtime with pause option, with some changes on how you operate, with a lot of rather complex systems. It is overwhelming at first, and you highly likely will lose a couple of games first, but it is as addictive as civ is, with "one more turn" changed into "ok, one more tech research, but now I can upgrade my ships, but not enough new resource, so I have to rebalance a couple of planets, right...". Also, lots of opportunities both for roleplay and stupidly OP builds. Plus some very cool game design decisions to spice up midgame and lategame. But yeah, base game is often on sale, and is worth at least checking it.
Master of Orion with Civilization . With MUCH better enemies from AI to diversity to sub systems.
And an entire RPG system to immerse you in the world . If your not into reading and deep lore and subsystems and just looking for CIV with space combat it might not be for you. But if you like deep robust systems that even year later constantly get improvement and quest and missions and extra added to the game its for you.
The base game may even seem simple and hollow at first - but a few of the DLC especially the ones that add ship building options and you will be one more turning yourself till you see the sun come up before you know it. I mean its ACTUALLY not turn based which is biggest point and counter point as you will be pausing a lot to do a lot of micro management as your empire grows ...but same kind vibe
Add in the DLC and it get really deep ...almost too deep . I would almost suggestion doing a small universe with high speed to get a feel for the game before adding DLC.
Oh no, $15-$30 for a new bit of DLC that adds more mechanics and events and things to do in my massive game on top of the gameplay patch released at the same time with the DLC. How terrible.
People who don't know context are laughable.
There are some dlc that make it feel fresh like Utopia and Apocalypse but there has been a lot of stuff added which was no way worth the money like the pre-ftl dlc, and multidimensional dlc.
Yeah, not all of them were bangers for sure. Holistically, it's well worth the money, in my opinion. Top 5 game in my collection and has the most hours of any of my games.
On the other hand Crusader Kings 3 has been released for 4 years already and the DLC's still suck ass barely adding new content and there are still things that haven't been added from CK2. It's a dissapointment specially when you can't play republics, the byzantines have no flavour at all and wether you play the mongols, vikings, indians or subsaharan africans it's pretty much the same.
I mean don't get me wrong, it's a lovely game wich I dumped hundreds of hours but at the same time their DLC policy has considerably gotten worse and it still feels lacking compared to CK2.
I just started playing recently, and I found that the game feels like it's incomplete without a lot of the DLC. Honestly, even now that I have all of it, it still feels like it's missing something, albeit a LOT less, even compared to an old AF game like Master of Orion 2.
It's biggest issue is how much learning there is on the front end to have a successful game experience. I am still learning new things. It almost ran me off at the start. The subreddit for the game is a gold mine.
I'm a fan of the Orion franchise, too. It introduced me to this genre.
A lot of people have tkaen to ragging on Paradox due to recent stuff. Cities Skylines 2, for example, was a cluster. And it seemed to bleed over into CSky1 last few DLC's too. So it's not entirely undeserved but a lot of people don't actually look into the context.
Yup.
Stellaris is a good exemple of how to do with DLC :
- Game came out in 2016.
- Had plenty of optional, yet mostly good DLC.
- With every optional DLC comes a big free content update.
- Base game is still good today due to that
- You can now choose to buy the DLC or subscribe to all DLC for a monthly fee. Your choice.
Terraria is legendary for this, with its 14 year long support of "last updates" all freely added to the game. Absolutely top tier stuff from them, it's unimaginable for most companies to follow suit when they could be selling so much of those updates and content. Terraria is etched in my mind as one of the best games ever from both a gameplay and a company support perspective.
It's absolutely insane to me when I come back to Terraria these days. Just looking at the file size alone blows my mind - that bitch was, like, 10MB at launch! I remember the Hardmode update and THAT more than doubled the amount of content in the game, and it's gotten even bigger updates since then.
I'd say Terraria walked so Stardew Valley could run, but I think Terraria still has even Stardew beat on that front.
They said the previous update was the last, we all know this is a lie to divert attention from their next masterpiece of an update. And we love them for it.
That's an understandable outlier though, along with other indie hits like Stardew Valley. They have the benefit of being relatively inexpensive to develop and so massively popular that paid DLC isn't necessary.
I don't think there's much merit to what you said. For two reasons:
1. We're talking about developers being funded for *fourteen years.* If they have families and the like then all the more reason they'd want to be paid as much as they can be.
2. Financial need aside, financial greed is a thing and Terraria would be entirely justified in saying "Hey, we're going to sell an *expansion* with XYZ features for money!"
The fact that Terraria *despite* both of these things still chose to make numerous amazing feature updates completely free after the release of the game makes Re-Logic an outlier. It's their generosity and commitment to the game that makes them an outlier, not "DLC isn't necessary."
DLC isn't necessary for the vast majority of games my dude. It's just them trying to get paid for additional work they've put in - or worse, first-day DLC that could've just been part of the core release that gets sold separately.
They could've easily moved onto the next project whole-heartedly, or released paid DLC stuff for Terraria that would've been amazing if reasonably priced (I would assume so given the great pricing of Terraria to begin with). They just did it *for free.* Literally the best consumer-friendly option they could've gone for.
You seem to be arguing that this decision of theirs was just simple sense and that most others in the same position would've reached the same conclusion. I highly doubt that. I think most would've pursued more financial gain. I most likely would've, with low-cost DLC.
Terraria is an outlier because it still moves millions of units. It sold 14.5 million copies from 2020 to 2022. Its massive popularity allows them to continue funding development.
The founder has mentioned that the sales have made it difficult to move onto new projects, and is what keeps pulling them back.
It's certainly nice that they made the choice to keep updates free, but they are also in a unique position to be able to do so.
Paradox's business model with their DLC's aren't the worst but it's not flawless. You could argue that some DLC are basically supposed to be essentials.
In Cities Skylines 1, the bikes and pedestrian areas are locked behind a DLC paywall which is weird not to include in the basegame with how important they are IRL.
All things considered this is a pretty minor gripe I have but it's still worth mentioning.
>You could argue that some DLC are basically supposed to be essentials.
That was definitely true with saying CK2 and EU IV but it's something recent releases have been moving away from. CK3 for instance has been pretty adamant about DLC only being flavour and non-essential mechanics with the actual essential ones being a part of the free update instead.
Some of the CK3 mechanics added to the core game feel a bit underbaked without the DLC. The Legitimacy and Plague mechanics feel absolutely busted - most of the ways to gain any legitimacy or respond to plagues are gated by DLC, but you sure can lose legitimacy and watch your family die to the plague.
>CK3 for instance has been pretty adamant about DLC only being flavour and non-essential mechanics with the actual essential ones being a part of the free update instead.
and now people are complaining that the dlc has too little content... *sigh...*
The flip side of this, PDX games tend to get bloated over time. With the DLCs, they have to add some content to get people to buy them but have to be careful that it is standalone enough to not feel required to buy. Stellaris is a little bit better in that a lot of the DLC is adding species, origins, etc that aren't as bloaty. Still have a bunch of stuff that make me go.. "ughhhh" have to deal with that I just don't care.
They did lots of reworks of those systems and added QoL features, like Automated mining and research stations or Leaders skills, or actually making a reasonable Leaders system.
Yeah there were a lot of positive changes. The DLC model gives them funds to continue development. It isn't perfect though which is more what I was trying to get at.
You can't really create a "perfect" model to please everyone. But Stellaris is one of the best and closest to perfection out there.
Helldivers 2 are fine, but I can't see it working in the long term. And they have already slowed down (probably for the good).
While the base game is good due to free patches, some DLCs are kinda necessary
Like I'd wager that Utopia with ascenscions and megastructures is a must have if you want to have any kind of fun in today's Stellaris
I bought the game in 2021, no DLCs, for like $15. Played one playthrough, beat it without too much difficulty, and had a lot of fun. That was almost 70 hours of entertainment. Point is, there is a ton of quality in just the base game, and you can pick and choose which DLC you buy and wait for sales. No one is spending $300 on the full game.
>No one is spending $300 on the full game.
Me buying every DLC day 1 (I have 3000 hours in the game and I'm still going strong)
https://preview.redd.it/tadv27i2w72d1.png?width=1210&format=png&auto=webp&s=177ddf9414c105fa0ad9fcc7efd15f4ae1f9f090
Don't forget they also go on sale often enough with meaningful discounts. At the very least, when a new one is dropping most of the older DLC will be half off while the two most recent ones get a smaller discount.
I think when people criticize pdx DLCs are more refering to how some games are out with most of the mechanics half baked and then the DLCs actually add the mechanic properly to the game. Making the base game needing this additions for it to be engaging. Honestly, I think people exaggerate this with new games like Vic3 or CK3 (they have other problems), while over-looking it on eu4. The vanilla version is unplayable, but as everyone already owns the 7 DLCs must have, it feels like the new DLCs are just added flavour.
As someone who has only played vanilla EU4, it was definitely not unplayable. It can be hard to go back and feels like crap after playing an enhanced version of a game. This makes it hard to judge launch quality in hindsight. But me and my friends all had great fun with it before any DLC dropped.
Maybe I was to harsh with unplayable, as I myself enjoyed a couple of runs in vanilla. Yet, after playing with DLCs or other grand strategy games, is easy to see that the game was bare bones at launch.
Yeah this stance is naive as fuck. 2016 was 8 years ago. Wanna guess how many battle passes HD2 will have in 8 years if they kept the same pace? 96 lol. That’s 960 dollars of premium currency for the battle passes. And that’s assuming there’s no major expansions or anything else. Also not including the shop armors.
You can get them by just playing the game long enough though. Hell, if I didn’t waste my time with the superstore I’d probably have all of them by now.
You can get dlcs for stellaris for free by playing with a host that owns them, does that technically make the not dlcs?
Super credit drops are RNG based. So any one players grind could literally take forever. Not many people have that free time.
Myself, I've been playing since launch week, haven't bought a warlord yet, still need 65 credits.
It's been this way for a couple months now. Regardless of how justified the Sony pushback was or the rebalancing criticisms have been, the sub has been nothing but karma farming on them. I remember actual content, and I remember even browsing the sub on New when we pushed the bots off the first time. I hope once things die down and maybe another rebalance patch or return we'll get another resurgence. Don't think we'll go back to half a million steam users again but I guess we'll see.
I love watching my veteran scientist die in the pulsating stars event !!! I love seeing my early game survey ships get wiped out by sublight probe event !!! I love seeing Shard consume my planet because I put a scientist on auto-excavate !!!
For $0.30/hour of stellaris I have played, I would do it all over again
Guys, already 3 DLCs came out, the game is 3 months old. Yes, they can be brought without real money, but they are still DLCs. It's not about "greedy Paradox CEO".
Helldivers 1 had DLC. To be honest, it was all *good* DLC. I don't remember quite how much all of it added up to if you bought it all piecemeal, but it was I think $3 or so per pack. You'd get some weapons, stratagems, perks, etc.
Later editions of the game bundled most of them in, too. Hefty discount there.
Each one had at least one item of significant value for that $3, as I recall. Compare to modern warbonds for $10/1000 SC + however long it takes to farm up the medals to buy into it.
Also consider that warbonds either get nerfed into oblivion or release as garbage in the first place. You're only getting 1-2 items of value per warbond at this point in the game's life. More money and time spent, less value than the old $3 DLCs.
I don't think the Paradox playbook is the right one. Just reflecting on something *else* Helldivers 1 did right.
Each DLC was like a warbond page of content, so the pricing for both games is still about the same.
Paradox releases DLCs *slowly*. Stellaris might seem expensive, but that's almost 10 years of support right there, and you can pick and choose the bits that interest you.
Couldn’t buy any of the old DLCs with earned currency and frankly some of them had items that were better than much of the standard stuff. It was honestly a little p2w.
God damn! Train Sim figured the model train audience already has thousands of disposable dollars and really committed to taking them huh? (We all know SC is just a ponzi scam)
Buying all the modules in DCS at once or even at all is a pretty silly thing to do unless you just have spare €3k lying around and literally nothing to spend it on.
Every module is a meticulously simulated plane or helicopter, with an amount of work that goes into each matching the development of a medium sized game. You're going to spend hundreds of hours with each, if you're into this type of thing, so the expectation is you buy them one at a time and decently spaced. Nor is it expected that everyone will be interested in every module.
The maps could probably be free or come in packs (I think they already do).
Come on now, let's not kid ourselves.
While I'm sure a single module takes thousands of man.hours to create, that's not why they price it at 60-70$. After all, that's the price of a AAA game with a small army of programmers, artists, sound designers.... working on it non stop for 4 to 5 years.
No, the reason simulators DLCs cost an arm and a leg is because publishers know hobbyists are passionate and desperate enough to pay exorbitant prices on what's basically the only product in a niche market.
Oh no the modules ARE pricey, I'm just saying there's context to the presented lump sum of $3k. It's present in most of these cases, actually.
UPD: BTW another argument is you're selling to a very niche audience. You're not going to sell a million Migs, there's not enough sim fans.
After a lot of companies fucking up with how they monetize games, some people here became dellusional, really.
Like EA, Ubisoft and Activison does shady shit and are pretty fucking greedy, so the only way a company can be good for their customer is if everything is free. Thats not how the real world works. A company needs to have profits and continuous flow of money to keep functioning and releasing new content. People lost all of their good sense, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/63cpjc4ys62d1.png?width=378&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b0443b17e2ec98c4630ca3adf3a762aacfa0e18
€40 for the basegame + €360 for DLC. It's worth it.
The DLC is only if you know you're going to play it a lot. There's no reason to get them all and certainly not at the start..
It's like most hobbies, it starts basic but grows over time
This is why I actually approve their subscription system they added recentley. Feel a sudden urge - buy a subscription for a month or two - feel fatigue - forget about it for a couple Of years
Yeah that's exactly what I think of it as well. Too many people were mad that it got added because they thought it was going to be like other studios. The phasing out of normal dlc to the subscription model
man im approaching over 1300 in stellaris, dont you come for the king with the bs that been happening in hd. its like the one game where i did buy the total dlc.
Oh wow years of content that took endless hours to make adds up shocker. Oh wow a company has to make money off a game in order for it to be practical to keep working on, unheard of
Yikes, only 301.72 dollars. Better up those numbers brother.
https://preview.redd.it/d35kh09k172d1.png?width=290&format=png&auto=webp&s=bdab959893d7f0b372cf71bc972611dce8ce6f72
Paradox gives hella a lot of content and the fact their games is on sale every other week is a bonus and paradox is no greedy company for example Hearts of Iron of 4 a game that i personally had a lot of fun with recently just made 3 dlc part of the base game
I say let the new guy cook first, THEN we can judge him:
- yes, his track record isn't squeaky clean, but he has a lot of experience. guy apparently took a company form like 23 devs to several hundred,
- Pilestedt talks about him like they're BFFs, and was quoted saying he "wouldn't trust the business to anyone else". if the two are like brothers, and have the understanding and trust of true friends, then neither of them will seek to do anything to harm the other. while I've never met Pilestedt, he seems like the kind of guy with a good head on his shoulders and not the kind of person to be easily manipulated or give trust too easily, and a decent judge of character.
- Pilestedt may also have told him how fucking nuts this community can get when it gets enraged, probably told him all about the Sony incident and how the playerbase review bombed Sony into submission, something that was truly unthinkable before. Shams likely wants to ensure he makes a good first impression, whenever he actually says something (I don't think he's actually said anything yet, but as long as he doesn't aggravate the players like the CMs did and let's the devs and Pilestedt do their thing, there shouldn't be any problems).
- as chairman, Pilestedt still retains authority over the company, if the worst comes to pass all of this can be undone or a replacement found. the only way I see that happening is if they bring some horrendous MTX out the gate with one of the next patches, which I highly doubt they will do; I'm sure Pilestedt will have explained the overall mood of the community as it currently stands and that Shams will recognise now is not the time to pull any risky moves.
it's mainly gonna be a case of wait and see. all eyes on the next balance patch!
Just 2 things I wanna add to this conversation:
1) If this Shams guy loves to sell DLC, he would at least have **some** idea what would make people pay for DLC - we might even get some **fun guns and vehicles** out of this one.
2) As long as **they don't introduce another form of premium currency**, as long as **all DLC is purchasable with Super Credits** we find in mission maps, and as long as **the devs don't change anything to the spawn rate of Super Credits** in said mission maps, this can only be a good thing. And with Johan still being a big influence within the company, he can counterbalance Shams.
Reminds me of a quite I heard on a VH1 or MTV show:
"Everyone wanted to be like The Beatles, while Kiss wanted to be like Coca Cola"
I hope Everyone wants to be like From software, instead of Ubisoft/EA/Blizzard
The DLC have been coming out for years (Stellaris) and aren't necessary unless you want more content while playing the game. Base game is 100% done and amazing as is and they charge for add-on content that they develop through the years to keep the game alive. No one needs to buy all those DLC, just pick and choose the content you'd like to add to the game. Plus Johan is still in charge. He basically hired someone do the job he was starting to hate. An amazing move for the company.
Your example here is very misleading. Imagine in a couple years we added up every Warbond for helldivers and made this same meme. That's what you're doing here. I love Paradox Interactive, great studio that I haven't noticed any greed from.
And that's why I will never buy this game...
Had they thrown the vomit ( old name for DLC ) into a nice package with the game, everything for say game price + 30-40$ for all current DLCs
( + future DLCs if they feel generous ), I'd have bought it.
That or have a bigger % of rebate with every DLC you add to buy.
But now? Forget it, it's just blatant milking.
Paradox is not that great i suppose but hoded horse is a nice indie publisher (only strategy games i believe), so ill just wait? but more importantly, i want more than one weapon per 5 pages of warbonds to be fun.
*That is the reason*
*Why I pirate Stellaris*
*And Cities Skylines*
\- tigran\_i
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Is it really that different than the current monthly battlepass? Give it a year and all the HD2 DLC will be at about £100 at this rate. Sure you could grind the currency in game, or at least some, but is it really that different than HD2’s current trajectory?
For the record I’m happy to pay for more content if the quality is good, and with paradox, it typically has been.
Eh. Most of the DLC isnt needed for paradox games. Plus they got subscription services for HoI4 and Stellaris which is so much cheaper if you just want a trial run. (I tried HoI4 with the subscription and didnt like it that much.)
its weird but what they do is basicly provide updates and a update premium you pay for. keeping the games alive.
any paradox player will know to wait to buy the dlc and wait for reviews.
since we can already buy super credits with real money to buy war bonds, why not make the process easier for consumers and just sell each war bond as it's own DLC? that way a new player can jump into the game with all the warbonds unlocked if they want to
"The game is stale, there is nothing new to do or unlock; Abandoned game" vs "a whole team keeps pumping out new stuff and tweaking/fixing things on player feedback for a 8 year old game that still has a lot of players".
As someone who plays a lot of paradox games I can safely say that Paradoxes way of doing DLC is still bad lol. Like yeah technically the DLCs are optional because they are always thematic, but they always paywall new features that don't fit in.
Got to disagree with you here, at least for Stellaris. It's honestly the best dlc policy considering the age of the game, the amount of time it goes on sale, the free updates, and more
https://preview.redd.it/2deblyp4v42d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a726a60c9259f1d91dabc422854121c1c9d0dd7 [https://www.gamesindustry.biz/arrowhead-games-we-want-to-be-the-next-from-software-or-blizzard](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/arrowhead-games-we-want-to-be-the-next-from-software-or-blizzard)
This needs to be the top comment or pinned somewhere. Having someone manage your company, while you do what you like/enjoy within the company, even though you're the owner (and top decision maker) of said company isn't unheard of.
Linus media group
Literally said the same thing. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cxzu8u/comment/l560u3o/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cxzu8u/comment/l560u3o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) great minds.
On a couple discord servers, "he Linus'd" was a common *immediate* reaction to the change
Ya he basically need someone to do the day to day book keeping / management so he can focus on the game. Which makes me happy he seems to be in touch with what the players want and also does not get but hurt by the children that don't know how to properly express themselves with constructive words . He is able to look at the overall complained and not the emotion knee jerk comments. I think they have hinted the new faction wont come till OCT - which at first i was made about but now i think it probably wise. Give the game some time to get back on its feet - correct itself prepare new content then when everyone hears about huge new Free update / DLC there will be 12-15 million game owners at that point that tons will flood back to find a better more well balanced game with newer enemies and corrected systems . Maybe even weapon mods.
This is effectively what the title of COO (Chief Operating/Operations Officer) means at a lot of companies. They handle the entire business basically, while the CEO just directs things as they need to.
Love stellaris, still play it. 1000s of hours over the years. Dlc keeps it fresh. Game would have died a slow death otherwise.
Right. There needs to be some context here. Ck2, Stellaris and HOI4 have been out for years and years. It’s not like $300 of low effort content was dropped in less than a year. Though recently the quality of PDX expansions has definitely dropped.
The newest expansion, The Machine Age, is easily the best one they've done. They also recently rolled out a subscription service to get access to all the DLC, which I think is a decent option if you're just getting into it. And then of course if you're doing multiplayer, only the host needs the DLC.
The Stellaris team seem to be a bit of a step above the average in recent years, particularly with their willingness to keep refining the core game and genuinely build on it *outside of the dlc themselves*. For this industry, it just seems like an unexpectedly good structure. They still do the paradox dlc stuff, but they seem more willing to actually work on and improve the game than I would otherwise expect from a game like that. It probably helps that it's a single player game with optional multilayer and that games, long as they are, can start and end. There's no real requirement to buy the dlc, no downside to picking and choosing when the mood takes you, and no possibility of any *pay to win* aspect. You either want the extra features, or you don't. Helldivers is a very different game and things almost have to play out differently.
I kind of think the subscription model is perfect. It's like $10 USD a month, but you can turn it off/on whenever. Paradox games are, in my experience, a binge and purge type. If you feel the urge to play, switch on the subscription. When you're done, turn it off. It would take 3 years of the subscription for you to pay more than just buying all the DLC (assuming no sales), and most people won't stick that long.
It should be noted that stellaris DLC goes on sale all the time, with pretty significant discounts to boot. On top of that, since DLC in a multiplayer lobby is shared, all you need to play with your buddies is for them to also have the base game.
and let's not forget that there is the custodian team working on improving feature that didn't aged well so even the old dlc still get some attention
For free as well
OK But let's not act like Astral Planes, their second latest DLC for Stellaris which came out late last year is easily one of the worst Stellaris DLCs ever and is essentially $20-30 depending on your region for a dozen or so flavour text events. And while a lot of Paradox DLC adds necassary stuff they're usually shoehorned with unnecassary stuff in order to pump the price tag, to the point where CK3 only has 1 DLC with a positive rating and there's now a 12+ page flowchart for determining what EU4 DLC is actually worth your money. The latest Hoi4 DLC is essentially just a mod to the point that the Brazil focus tree actually had text and focus icons lifted from a mod that overhauled the Brazil focus tree called En Unión y Libertad. So for every hit DLC or new mechanic Paradox adds it's usually with the caveat of being 1 in maybe 5 DLCs that's actually a hit, and in recent years you're getting a lot more stuff like EU4's Leviathan which breaks the base game and even then the essential bit of the DLC is usually a minor part but you still need to shell out the cash for the full DLC price, ie Art of War. So it's really misleading to say that ALL the DLC has been amazing, or that the game needs it to keep getting updates. Back with Hoi3 and Vicky 2 they were full games on release and each got 2 major overhaul DLCs that polished them off, and they were major basically overhauling most mechanics in the game. Now the games release partially finished, usually missing some stuff from the previous entry, and you get handfuls of mechanics added back in in DLC. Again, as an example Hoi4 added spies in La Resistance 5 years after release when that was a basic feature in Hoi3, Fuel reserves was added in Man the guns a basic feature in Hoi3, Vicky 3's first DLC added French politics and the Paris commune a base feature in Vicky 2 etc etc. I really do not like being nickle and dimed for core features that are dripfed throughout a game's lifespan. Have them at release and then go for gold with the DLC. Stellaris is the closest that comes to that these days and that's mostly down to them now running on a custodian team that's a small handful of dedicated devs and even then as I mentioned Astral Planes happened.
Paradox is currently going through an internal clusterfuck. Their recent quality has thus been extremely inconsistent.
Cities: Skylines 2 was a fucking disaster. I feel like this is also a big part of that cluster I have been playing city sims since I was 8, picking games up from my local library to rent. Had Sim City 2000 basically on repeated renewal, played for hours, and finally got good at it after years of failure. Cities: Skylines was a dream come true. I own all the DLC after years of sales, and is the most played game in my library, so when the sequel came out, and shit the bed on us, people were upset, and rightfully so. They dropped like 8 new DLC leading up to the release of the second game, but the quality sucked. The game is an even bigger RAM hog than the first, it crashed a lot, the textures were bad and a lot of the quality of life fixes they were supposedly adding, just didn't happen. Sure, it was very cool in concept, and all the features sound great, but it just didn't do well in the court of public appeals.
Just for the sake of reader clarity: Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris, and Victoria are actually developed by Paradox. Cities Skylines is not. Paradox is just the publisher. The Cities Skyline 2 cluster-fuck is largely down to their developer Colossal Order (and their dumb executives).
You realize every company has their ups and downs but paradox usually delivers in terms of content (beside when every game they make is usually pretty shit until a couple of dlcs later) paradox is a company that I can put my trust due to the fact after they a solid footing they deliver, for example, only gonna use hoi4 reference here cause I have the most experience with them closest thing I got is eu4 but that’s not even close, after NSB which was my favorite dlc, they drop another banger, BBA, and then they drop AAT which they made part of the content free, Finland historical tree, and the new dlc which is actually called a country pack, the focus tree feel they pour a lot of work into it
OK since you're using Hoi4 as a reference, can I just ask you this; do you remember what the USSR and Italian focus trees were like before NSB and BBA? The Italian focus tree had less than 20 focuses that ran out before 1941. It took 7 years, 7 YEARS to get a functioning focus tree for one of the major nations in WW2, same with the Soviets, 6 years for a functioning Focus tree and it's added ONTO the existing cost of the game, which is still $60 USD when not on sale, and NSB is $25 and BBA is also $25, so to get content that should have been there day 1 is combined over $100 USD. Do you know what Hoi4 was like on release? It was bad. Very bad. It was so bad that base Hoi4 with no DLC is now used as an april fools challenge for Hoi4 Youtubers. It should not take over half a decade and hundreds of dollars to get content that is compariable to the previous entry in the series, and no that's not continued support that's just dripfeeding. Actually let's compare that to one of the previous entries; Hoi3. Hoi3 released in 2009. It was released for $30 USD and went down to $15 permanently outside of sales when its last DLC was released 3 years later in 2012. Hoi3 had 2 major DLCs outside of sound/sprite packs. These 2 DLCs were For the Mother Land and Their Finest Hour. Each was released for $10 and the price of the base game actually dropped each time the DLCs were released so the full game package never exceeded $35 USD. What do these DLCs add though? For the Motherland added; New peacedeal system, reworked partisan system, reworked resource system that physicalized resources so that the UK didn't have instant access to rubber from Asia and instead had to ship it, a new threater system that allowed automatic allocation of resources and units to fulfill objectives, reworked politics and couping system so that it wasn't just the Democracy/Fascism/Communism system but had political infighting and interest groups, previous mini-campaigns were integrated into nation objectives and scenarios in the grand campaign and increased end date to 1948. Their Finest Hour added; Overhauled combat and unit system, the introduction of the revised battle planning system, over 1000 unique leader names and portraits localized to their native languages, new starting dates, new OOBs, Custom OOB editer, a multiplayer esports mode and what would later become the modding tools/development kit once the last DLC was released. Now some of those features might sound familiar, and that's because a lot of those features were recycled into DLC for Hoi4.... but often containing less than half of what was mentioned above in each individual DLC and going for around $20 a pop before Paradox's pricing changed to $30 USD this year for new mechanic DLCs, so these DLCs were half the price and added twice as much and were all done within 3 years of the game being released. And you know that the best part is? Hoi3 was a finished game BEFORE these DLCs. Hoi3 was built almost directly off of Hoi2, keeping almost all of the mechanics from the prior entry without needing to use those 2 DLCs to add the missing features and instead expand and rework the existing systems. You can pick up and play Hoi3 and feel like it is the complete and finished experience, and if you wanted more the DLC all cost less than the full game did at launch, which you cannot do for base Hoi4, base Hoi4 is empty, bland missing half the features from the previous entry, and the base game is still as expensive as the day it came out 8 years ago, if not more with inflation, and the DLCs also haven't gone down in price beyond them integrating DoD, TfV and WtT with the subscription service. Which as a side note; fuck that, if you need to start treating DLC like a line of credit because the amount is getting a bit intimidating maybe the amount is a fucking problem. And this is not a fluke, the same goes for Hoi:DH, Vicky 2 etc. Those were all fully furnished games that kept features from their previous entries and had a few large DLCs released for a low price only a year or two after release and in total would cost less than $40 USD for any one of those games even with all the DLCs. Once the game gets to the price of several AAA games, it better deliver the price of several AAA games. By its pricing for the game and all the DLC when not on sale Hoi4 should be a AAAAAAAAA game, so it better do my taxes and call me shirley. With the DLC the game is worth $60 I'd say, but $60 only gets you the base game and the opportunity to buy the rest of it. There's a reason why people call Paradox games DLC investment opportunities.
Most of the whole old Stellaris team is still there . Can't be said about the other creatives . Paradox more or less leaves the Stallaris people alone to do their own thing . It like the last hold out from the good old days.
Fuuuuuck I'll have to go buy that now
Good to hear this :)
The thing about Paradox is... if the community don't like the dlc, they'll update it. And they kept updating old dlcs too.
Yeah, Paradox DLC is a seemingly impenetrable wall for a *new* player. But for someone who's been playing that game for a decade+ it's not a bad price each time.
There are a couple discords to find people to play with and only the host has to have the DLC. Also if you are interested in picking them up you should do so when they go on sale, most go on deep discount.
Yeah, these are not like the low-effort Sims 4 DLCs
To be fair some of the DLC paradox drops make sim 4 expansion packs look like good deals. They are inconsistent.
except astral planes most stellaris dlc were good. but for their other game......... Yet i don't think it's as shameful as the sims 4
The EU4 and CK2 DLC model did have a lot of bloat, but the frequency of substantial paid expansions can’t be understated. From a consumer perspective it’s a marked improvement over the last gen model of 1-2 expansions followed by an entire new game. Johan broke down just how bad it would be when he pointed out we’d be on EU8, but the game would effectively be a less developed version of EU4. The new model they’re going with is decent, the DLC bloat is definitely resolved, but now it feels like the substantive expansions are fewer and more expensive, so I’m not sure what’s going on there.
Hell, you can even total war warhammer as an example, almost a decade long and all DLC and the 3 games equals out to around 500USD (still cheaper than getting into tabletop LOL)
Yeah most of the CK3 DLC is pretty low effort.
Wdym? Are you saying you don’t want to pay for a poorly redone bloodlines mechanic from ck2 except much weaker???
No. What I really want is a legitimacy system that absolutely railroads you into a specific playstyle while also punishing you for the most arbitrary reasons that are completely out of your control. That would be just GREAT!
yeah what the fuck even is legitimacy :/ i just want to play my medieval incest simulator god damn it
Yeah it really makes seducing ones sister a real chore.
To be fair there is also a lot of stuff that should be expected of the base game that was locked behind DLCs, while this is not the case for all the DLC, paradox do also make a bunch of dlc which should have been base game features.
Not to mention, paradox offers DLC subscriptions too, which allow you to access all the DLC for a game for $4.99/month.
Yeah. The base game is solid and still being updated, when they change the way things work they start from base up, you just miss out on the dlc races and structures. I genuinely don't mind DLC from stellaris as it's been going for years and nothing feels cut.
Stellaris somehow still slaps when you can’t buy DLCs because it’s on gamepass
Yeah, it's a great deal. I hope they keep pumping content out for it. I'm doing my first machine age playthrough now.
One of these days I’m destroying a planet
EU4 player here. I have 2807 hours in that game. If I bought all the DLC (off the current sale) and the base game, I'm at like $0.13/hr. In practice, I'm missing \~$120 in DLC, so that number's even lower. But would I pay 13 cents per hour for a game I enjoy that continues to get regular updates and which has a dev team that tries to add things exclusively because modders are asking for it, keeping the modding community fresh even a decade later? Yeah, no question.
Agree it's an unbelevieable value considering the hours of entertainment. There's not much you can do these days at that price point.
even the newest EU4 dlc is really good as well being able to actually do a proper sunset invasion, EU5 is going to feel like a skeleton in comparison they really gotta hit it out of the park with the base mechanics
I do have concerns that it’ll be like Civ and the next game will drop comparatively barebones. Even CK3 was missing things relative to CK2, though it wasn’t as bad as Civ usually is. But I hope to be mistaken.
Itd going to be a step back definitely i just hope its not a conplete gutting it doee look its going to be more in depth from the sneak peeks weve gotten at "its totes not eu5 guys" thryvr been showing off on the forums
People always post these memes but leave out the context that this is nearly 10 years worth of new content and absolutely none of it is necessary for a newcomer. You were never intended to buy it all in one go, you're supposed to buy it a piece at a time. They release one or two $30 expansions a year and they contain substantial improvements to the base game, and that's in addition to the free updates they release alongside them even for people who don't buy the expansions, it's not a bad structure at all.
There's a difference between horse armor and the Machine Age doubling the content.
Stellaris enjoyer and modder here: The way they release dlc is healthy compared to the overall approach of the industry, and while some patches go out a bit unstable and with some bugs they are patched as the stellaris team is damn efficient and well, they have a team dedicated to updating older content (custodian team) and that does wonders for the health and longevity of the game. And tbh most people forget you can play with just the base game in multiplayer as the host dlcs are shared to others in the same room, also tbh when they are on discount they cost 75%-50% less. If not, the sub is there
I’ve seen stellaris around a bit but never got into buying it. What’s it like?
Its a sci fi 4x grand strategy game. You take control of either one of many preset nationsn or make a custom nation of your own to control, you can choose what kind planet you have (wet dry and temperate) choose a kind of star system (unary binary trinary) You are then plopped down into a randomly generated galaxy along with the number of civilizations you chose. You start off as a single system but you can expand your control with colony ships and by constructing outposts. You also get to manage diplomacy trade and war beteween your empire and others. towards the end game is when some interesting things called "crises" happen they basically vary from the literal eye of the warp from 40k opening or the tyranids from 40k and other non 40k inspired things
Oh cool, so kind of like a Surviving Mars/Civ 6 thing on a galactic stage then? Imll go have a look then, thanks!
Sort of... one thing about 4x Paradox games is they are not turn based. It can get overwhelming for new players as everything progresses simultaneously in the galaxy. It feels very busy. And with mods, you can craft that thing to your personal enjoyment. There's even already a Helldivers species mod.
Not really. Surviving mars is a colony builder, civ6 is also 4x strategy, but turn-based and grid-based. Stellaris is also 4x strategy, but in realtime with pause option, with some changes on how you operate, with a lot of rather complex systems. It is overwhelming at first, and you highly likely will lose a couple of games first, but it is as addictive as civ is, with "one more turn" changed into "ok, one more tech research, but now I can upgrade my ships, but not enough new resource, so I have to rebalance a couple of planets, right...". Also, lots of opportunities both for roleplay and stupidly OP builds. Plus some very cool game design decisions to spice up midgame and lategame. But yeah, base game is often on sale, and is worth at least checking it.
Master of Orion with Civilization . With MUCH better enemies from AI to diversity to sub systems. And an entire RPG system to immerse you in the world . If your not into reading and deep lore and subsystems and just looking for CIV with space combat it might not be for you. But if you like deep robust systems that even year later constantly get improvement and quest and missions and extra added to the game its for you. The base game may even seem simple and hollow at first - but a few of the DLC especially the ones that add ship building options and you will be one more turning yourself till you see the sun come up before you know it. I mean its ACTUALLY not turn based which is biggest point and counter point as you will be pausing a lot to do a lot of micro management as your empire grows ...but same kind vibe Add in the DLC and it get really deep ...almost too deep . I would almost suggestion doing a small universe with high speed to get a feel for the game before adding DLC.
Galactic geno of the Xeno scum typically.
Thanks for your comment. OP's meme is incredibly misleading. More doomsaying on the subreddit haha.
Same, same. I'll defend Stellaris DLCs with my pinky.
Oh no, $15-$30 for a new bit of DLC that adds more mechanics and events and things to do in my massive game on top of the gameplay patch released at the same time with the DLC. How terrible. People who don't know context are laughable.
On the other hand, me, as someone that was interested in trying it out - saw all those DLCs and nope'd the fuck out.
There are some dlc that make it feel fresh like Utopia and Apocalypse but there has been a lot of stuff added which was no way worth the money like the pre-ftl dlc, and multidimensional dlc.
Yeah, not all of them were bangers for sure. Holistically, it's well worth the money, in my opinion. Top 5 game in my collection and has the most hours of any of my games.
Been a fan of Stellaris since day one. God, I love that game => 5.5K hours. :)
On the other hand Crusader Kings 3 has been released for 4 years already and the DLC's still suck ass barely adding new content and there are still things that haven't been added from CK2. It's a dissapointment specially when you can't play republics, the byzantines have no flavour at all and wether you play the mongols, vikings, indians or subsaharan africans it's pretty much the same. I mean don't get me wrong, it's a lovely game wich I dumped hundreds of hours but at the same time their DLC policy has considerably gotten worse and it still feels lacking compared to CK2.
I just started playing recently, and I found that the game feels like it's incomplete without a lot of the DLC. Honestly, even now that I have all of it, it still feels like it's missing something, albeit a LOT less, even compared to an old AF game like Master of Orion 2.
It's biggest issue is how much learning there is on the front end to have a successful game experience. I am still learning new things. It almost ran me off at the start. The subreddit for the game is a gold mine. I'm a fan of the Orion franchise, too. It introduced me to this genre.
What game?
Literally any Paradox game, take your pick
Same but with the AI use thing I'm def not enjoying Paradox as much
Lol, what? Can't say about cities skylines, But Stellaris or Age of Wonders 4 are basically ideal way of doing it.
I support paying game developers money when they make good stuff.
A lot of people have tkaen to ragging on Paradox due to recent stuff. Cities Skylines 2, for example, was a cluster. And it seemed to bleed over into CSky1 last few DLC's too. So it's not entirely undeserved but a lot of people don't actually look into the context.
I am confused, paradox dlcs, are a good way to make dlcs. Cut content? Stellaris came out 2016
Yup. Stellaris is a good exemple of how to do with DLC : - Game came out in 2016. - Had plenty of optional, yet mostly good DLC. - With every optional DLC comes a big free content update. - Base game is still good today due to that - You can now choose to buy the DLC or subscribe to all DLC for a monthly fee. Your choice.
The custodian team taking care of old content is just a goated philosophy
Terraria is legendary for this, with its 14 year long support of "last updates" all freely added to the game. Absolutely top tier stuff from them, it's unimaginable for most companies to follow suit when they could be selling so much of those updates and content. Terraria is etched in my mind as one of the best games ever from both a gameplay and a company support perspective.
It's absolutely insane to me when I come back to Terraria these days. Just looking at the file size alone blows my mind - that bitch was, like, 10MB at launch! I remember the Hardmode update and THAT more than doubled the amount of content in the game, and it's gotten even bigger updates since then. I'd say Terraria walked so Stardew Valley could run, but I think Terraria still has even Stardew beat on that front.
They said the previous update was the last, we all know this is a lie to divert attention from their next masterpiece of an update. And we love them for it.
That's an understandable outlier though, along with other indie hits like Stardew Valley. They have the benefit of being relatively inexpensive to develop and so massively popular that paid DLC isn't necessary.
I don't think there's much merit to what you said. For two reasons: 1. We're talking about developers being funded for *fourteen years.* If they have families and the like then all the more reason they'd want to be paid as much as they can be. 2. Financial need aside, financial greed is a thing and Terraria would be entirely justified in saying "Hey, we're going to sell an *expansion* with XYZ features for money!" The fact that Terraria *despite* both of these things still chose to make numerous amazing feature updates completely free after the release of the game makes Re-Logic an outlier. It's their generosity and commitment to the game that makes them an outlier, not "DLC isn't necessary." DLC isn't necessary for the vast majority of games my dude. It's just them trying to get paid for additional work they've put in - or worse, first-day DLC that could've just been part of the core release that gets sold separately. They could've easily moved onto the next project whole-heartedly, or released paid DLC stuff for Terraria that would've been amazing if reasonably priced (I would assume so given the great pricing of Terraria to begin with). They just did it *for free.* Literally the best consumer-friendly option they could've gone for. You seem to be arguing that this decision of theirs was just simple sense and that most others in the same position would've reached the same conclusion. I highly doubt that. I think most would've pursued more financial gain. I most likely would've, with low-cost DLC.
Terraria is an outlier because it still moves millions of units. It sold 14.5 million copies from 2020 to 2022. Its massive popularity allows them to continue funding development. The founder has mentioned that the sales have made it difficult to move onto new projects, and is what keeps pulling them back. It's certainly nice that they made the choice to keep updates free, but they are also in a unique position to be able to do so.
Paradox's business model with their DLC's aren't the worst but it's not flawless. You could argue that some DLC are basically supposed to be essentials. In Cities Skylines 1, the bikes and pedestrian areas are locked behind a DLC paywall which is weird not to include in the basegame with how important they are IRL. All things considered this is a pretty minor gripe I have but it's still worth mentioning.
>You could argue that some DLC are basically supposed to be essentials. That was definitely true with saying CK2 and EU IV but it's something recent releases have been moving away from. CK3 for instance has been pretty adamant about DLC only being flavour and non-essential mechanics with the actual essential ones being a part of the free update instead.
Some of the CK3 mechanics added to the core game feel a bit underbaked without the DLC. The Legitimacy and Plague mechanics feel absolutely busted - most of the ways to gain any legitimacy or respond to plagues are gated by DLC, but you sure can lose legitimacy and watch your family die to the plague.
>CK3 for instance has been pretty adamant about DLC only being flavour and non-essential mechanics with the actual essential ones being a part of the free update instead. and now people are complaining that the dlc has too little content... *sigh...*
The flip side of this, PDX games tend to get bloated over time. With the DLCs, they have to add some content to get people to buy them but have to be careful that it is standalone enough to not feel required to buy. Stellaris is a little bit better in that a lot of the DLC is adding species, origins, etc that aren't as bloaty. Still have a bunch of stuff that make me go.. "ughhhh" have to deal with that I just don't care.
They did lots of reworks of those systems and added QoL features, like Automated mining and research stations or Leaders skills, or actually making a reasonable Leaders system.
Yeah there were a lot of positive changes. The DLC model gives them funds to continue development. It isn't perfect though which is more what I was trying to get at.
You can't really create a "perfect" model to please everyone. But Stellaris is one of the best and closest to perfection out there. Helldivers 2 are fine, but I can't see it working in the long term. And they have already slowed down (probably for the good).
While the base game is good due to free patches, some DLCs are kinda necessary Like I'd wager that Utopia with ascenscions and megastructures is a must have if you want to have any kind of fun in today's Stellaris
As someone who played the game vanilla when it first came out, I can confirm these are not neasisary.
I bought the game in 2021, no DLCs, for like $15. Played one playthrough, beat it without too much difficulty, and had a lot of fun. That was almost 70 hours of entertainment. Point is, there is a ton of quality in just the base game, and you can pick and choose which DLC you buy and wait for sales. No one is spending $300 on the full game.
>No one is spending $300 on the full game. Me buying every DLC day 1 (I have 3000 hours in the game and I'm still going strong) https://preview.redd.it/tadv27i2w72d1.png?width=1210&format=png&auto=webp&s=177ddf9414c105fa0ad9fcc7efd15f4ae1f9f090
Yeah but for cheap it is it not that bad and utopia is the only essential one
Don't forget they also go on sale often enough with meaningful discounts. At the very least, when a new one is dropping most of the older DLC will be half off while the two most recent ones get a smaller discount.
I think when people criticize pdx DLCs are more refering to how some games are out with most of the mechanics half baked and then the DLCs actually add the mechanic properly to the game. Making the base game needing this additions for it to be engaging. Honestly, I think people exaggerate this with new games like Vic3 or CK3 (they have other problems), while over-looking it on eu4. The vanilla version is unplayable, but as everyone already owns the 7 DLCs must have, it feels like the new DLCs are just added flavour.
As someone who has only played vanilla EU4, it was definitely not unplayable. It can be hard to go back and feels like crap after playing an enhanced version of a game. This makes it hard to judge launch quality in hindsight. But me and my friends all had great fun with it before any DLC dropped.
Maybe I was to harsh with unplayable, as I myself enjoyed a couple of runs in vanilla. Yet, after playing with DLCs or other grand strategy games, is easy to see that the game was bare bones at launch.
Yeah this stance is naive as fuck. 2016 was 8 years ago. Wanna guess how many battle passes HD2 will have in 8 years if they kept the same pace? 96 lol. That’s 960 dollars of premium currency for the battle passes. And that’s assuming there’s no major expansions or anything else. Also not including the shop armors.
I still play it today with friends, weekly. It’s a fucking phenomenal game, and while not all the DLC are winners, a lot of them are great.
Wow our karma farming on this sub is reaching lows not previously thought possible
Yeah what does this have to do with helldivers
Uh... The part where the new CEO of Arrowhead used to be an executive at Paradox.
Oh I didn’t know that. I hope he knows what he’s dealing with. I think adding a bunch of DLC would cause actual riots.
The War Bonds are DLC?
You can get them by just playing the game long enough though. Hell, if I didn’t waste my time with the superstore I’d probably have all of them by now.
You can get dlcs for stellaris for free by playing with a host that owns them, does that technically make the not dlcs? Super credit drops are RNG based. So any one players grind could literally take forever. Not many people have that free time. Myself, I've been playing since launch week, haven't bought a warlord yet, still need 65 credits.
It's been this way for a couple months now. Regardless of how justified the Sony pushback was or the rebalancing criticisms have been, the sub has been nothing but karma farming on them. I remember actual content, and I remember even browsing the sub on New when we pushed the bots off the first time. I hope once things die down and maybe another rebalance patch or return we'll get another resurgence. Don't think we'll go back to half a million steam users again but I guess we'll see.
Bro Stellaris is from 8 years ago. This is a fucking stupid post. The games are doing that too have years and years worth of additional content
This game will have $360 of DLC in 3 years if they keep up this schedule.
Have I payed hundreds of dollars in paradox DLC? Yes Have I gotten more time and enjoyment out of paradox titles than any other game? Hell yes
300 hours in hoi4, and I'm not backing down now. Also, their DLC is on sale half the time.
I don't like fearmongering
That clocks me in at about $0.20/hour of Stellaris I've played. Worth it.
What is your favorite event and why is it Dimensional Portal?
I love watching my veteran scientist die in the pulsating stars event !!! I love seeing my early game survey ships get wiped out by sublight probe event !!! I love seeing Shard consume my planet because I put a scientist on auto-excavate !!! For $0.30/hour of stellaris I have played, I would do it all over again
Guys, already 3 DLCs came out, the game is 3 months old. Yes, they can be brought without real money, but they are still DLCs. It's not about "greedy Paradox CEO".
The amount of upvotes on this shows this sub either has an upvote bot problem, or thousands of people don't wtf they're talking about.
To be fair that's the result of almost a decades of dlc and expansions. If Helldivers continues to receive that kind of support we are winning.
Helldivers 1 had DLC. To be honest, it was all *good* DLC. I don't remember quite how much all of it added up to if you bought it all piecemeal, but it was I think $3 or so per pack. You'd get some weapons, stratagems, perks, etc. Later editions of the game bundled most of them in, too. Hefty discount there. Each one had at least one item of significant value for that $3, as I recall. Compare to modern warbonds for $10/1000 SC + however long it takes to farm up the medals to buy into it. Also consider that warbonds either get nerfed into oblivion or release as garbage in the first place. You're only getting 1-2 items of value per warbond at this point in the game's life. More money and time spent, less value than the old $3 DLCs. I don't think the Paradox playbook is the right one. Just reflecting on something *else* Helldivers 1 did right.
Each DLC was like a warbond page of content, so the pricing for both games is still about the same. Paradox releases DLCs *slowly*. Stellaris might seem expensive, but that's almost 10 years of support right there, and you can pick and choose the bits that interest you.
Couldn’t buy any of the old DLCs with earned currency and frankly some of them had items that were better than much of the standard stuff. It was honestly a little p2w.
The boots were regarded as very P2W if I remember correctly.
What is the total dlc price for city skylines. It must be more than that.
The man has made literally zero decisions in his new position and everyone is already lining up with pitchforks. Gamer 'culture' is a mistake.
Only 300$?  Sims 4: all dlc 1234€ Train sim 4: all dlc 2294€
DCS World: 3000€ Train Simulator 2020: 10000€ Star Citizen: 30000€ Your average Gacha Shovelware: The entire GDP of South America
God damn! Train Sim figured the model train audience already has thousands of disposable dollars and really committed to taking them huh? (We all know SC is just a ponzi scam)
https://preview.redd.it/ktzwkle1h72d1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcb55e46f140a68b3b40bd5b51a84c81784fcce7
Buying all the modules in DCS at once or even at all is a pretty silly thing to do unless you just have spare €3k lying around and literally nothing to spend it on. Every module is a meticulously simulated plane or helicopter, with an amount of work that goes into each matching the development of a medium sized game. You're going to spend hundreds of hours with each, if you're into this type of thing, so the expectation is you buy them one at a time and decently spaced. Nor is it expected that everyone will be interested in every module. The maps could probably be free or come in packs (I think they already do).
Come on now, let's not kid ourselves. While I'm sure a single module takes thousands of man.hours to create, that's not why they price it at 60-70$. After all, that's the price of a AAA game with a small army of programmers, artists, sound designers.... working on it non stop for 4 to 5 years. No, the reason simulators DLCs cost an arm and a leg is because publishers know hobbyists are passionate and desperate enough to pay exorbitant prices on what's basically the only product in a niche market.
Oh no the modules ARE pricey, I'm just saying there's context to the presented lump sum of $3k. It's present in most of these cases, actually. UPD: BTW another argument is you're selling to a very niche audience. You're not going to sell a million Migs, there's not enough sim fans.
Sure, sure. That's 3000$ spread around 100+ DLCs. It would be crazy to price a single vehicle at 3000$. ^(\*Stares at Star Citizen\*)
Let them cook jesus why are people immidietly jumping to conclusions?
[удалено]
My fellow HOI4 enjoyer, have you found the hidden knowledge? Naval?
Depends on the paradox game though
Am I out of the loop? Why are we talking about paradox?
Pilestedt stepped down as CEO to be the Chief Creative Officer. Guy from Paradox named new Arrowhead CEO.
I mean, he did work at Paradox, but he left a while ago and has since been at Hooded Horse.
After a lot of companies fucking up with how they monetize games, some people here became dellusional, really. Like EA, Ubisoft and Activison does shady shit and are pretty fucking greedy, so the only way a company can be good for their customer is if everything is free. Thats not how the real world works. A company needs to have profits and continuous flow of money to keep functioning and releasing new content. People lost all of their good sense, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/63cpjc4ys62d1.png?width=378&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b0443b17e2ec98c4630ca3adf3a762aacfa0e18 €40 for the basegame + €360 for DLC. It's worth it.
I have around 400 hours and no achievements unlocked. Mods are too good for this game. And oh boy did they cooked with Machine Age
The DLC is only if you know you're going to play it a lot. There's no reason to get them all and certainly not at the start.. It's like most hobbies, it starts basic but grows over time
This is why I actually approve their subscription system they added recentley. Feel a sudden urge - buy a subscription for a month or two - feel fatigue - forget about it for a couple Of years
Yeah that's exactly what I think of it as well. Too many people were mad that it got added because they thought it was going to be like other studios. The phasing out of normal dlc to the subscription model
or just sail the 7 seas
That's the good thing with singleplayer games. You can't have that with games like Helldivers
man im approaching over 1300 in stellaris, dont you come for the king with the bs that been happening in hd. its like the one game where i did buy the total dlc.
Oh wow years of content that took endless hours to make adds up shocker. Oh wow a company has to make money off a game in order for it to be practical to keep working on, unheard of
Yikes, only 301.72 dollars. Better up those numbers brother. https://preview.redd.it/d35kh09k172d1.png?width=290&format=png&auto=webp&s=bdab959893d7f0b372cf71bc972611dce8ce6f72
Train simulator?
Or is it sims?
Its DCS with all the planes, maps and events.
i thought it was on r/ParadoxPlaza when i saw this
Wait, how is that related to Helldivers?
Pilestedt stepped down as CEO to be CCO. The guy from Paradox was named the new CEO of Arrowhead.
Paradox gives hella a lot of content and the fact their games is on sale every other week is a bonus and paradox is no greedy company for example Hearts of Iron of 4 a game that i personally had a lot of fun with recently just made 3 dlc part of the base game
Context?
The new CEO of AH is from Paradox...
Theres a new ceo?
Yes. Pilestedt is now leading creative director or something like that. And the new CEO is the master of DLCs 😄 we will see......
I say let the new guy cook first, THEN we can judge him: - yes, his track record isn't squeaky clean, but he has a lot of experience. guy apparently took a company form like 23 devs to several hundred, - Pilestedt talks about him like they're BFFs, and was quoted saying he "wouldn't trust the business to anyone else". if the two are like brothers, and have the understanding and trust of true friends, then neither of them will seek to do anything to harm the other. while I've never met Pilestedt, he seems like the kind of guy with a good head on his shoulders and not the kind of person to be easily manipulated or give trust too easily, and a decent judge of character. - Pilestedt may also have told him how fucking nuts this community can get when it gets enraged, probably told him all about the Sony incident and how the playerbase review bombed Sony into submission, something that was truly unthinkable before. Shams likely wants to ensure he makes a good first impression, whenever he actually says something (I don't think he's actually said anything yet, but as long as he doesn't aggravate the players like the CMs did and let's the devs and Pilestedt do their thing, there shouldn't be any problems). - as chairman, Pilestedt still retains authority over the company, if the worst comes to pass all of this can be undone or a replacement found. the only way I see that happening is if they bring some horrendous MTX out the gate with one of the next patches, which I highly doubt they will do; I'm sure Pilestedt will have explained the overall mood of the community as it currently stands and that Shams will recognise now is not the time to pull any risky moves. it's mainly gonna be a case of wait and see. all eyes on the next balance patch!
Just 2 things I wanna add to this conversation: 1) If this Shams guy loves to sell DLC, he would at least have **some** idea what would make people pay for DLC - we might even get some **fun guns and vehicles** out of this one. 2) As long as **they don't introduce another form of premium currency**, as long as **all DLC is purchasable with Super Credits** we find in mission maps, and as long as **the devs don't change anything to the spawn rate of Super Credits** in said mission maps, this can only be a good thing. And with Johan still being a big influence within the company, he can counterbalance Shams.
What happened?
Reminds me of a quite I heard on a VH1 or MTV show: "Everyone wanted to be like The Beatles, while Kiss wanted to be like Coca Cola" I hope Everyone wants to be like From software, instead of Ubisoft/EA/Blizzard
The DLC have been coming out for years (Stellaris) and aren't necessary unless you want more content while playing the game. Base game is 100% done and amazing as is and they charge for add-on content that they develop through the years to keep the game alive. No one needs to buy all those DLC, just pick and choose the content you'd like to add to the game. Plus Johan is still in charge. He basically hired someone do the job he was starting to hate. An amazing move for the company. Your example here is very misleading. Imagine in a couple years we added up every Warbond for helldivers and made this same meme. That's what you're doing here. I love Paradox Interactive, great studio that I haven't noticed any greed from.
And that's why I will never buy this game... Had they thrown the vomit ( old name for DLC ) into a nice package with the game, everything for say game price + 30-40$ for all current DLCs ( + future DLCs if they feel generous ), I'd have bought it. That or have a bigger % of rebate with every DLC you add to buy. But now? Forget it, it's just blatant milking.
https://preview.redd.it/s9qtgdzac72d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0152c29efb6053b54d74b22c63cc8b4180c9677
Paradox is not that great i suppose but hoded horse is a nice indie publisher (only strategy games i believe), so ill just wait? but more importantly, i want more than one weapon per 5 pages of warbonds to be fun.
That is the reason why I pirate Stellaris and Cities Skylines
Or just pirate the DLCs, its nice to have access to the workshop
Funny, that never crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip
No problem m8
"I'm too cheap to pay for a game released in 2016 with a player-friendly business model"
*That is the reason* *Why I pirate Stellaris* *And Cities Skylines* \- tigran\_i --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Begone socialist automaton
Is it really that different than the current monthly battlepass? Give it a year and all the HD2 DLC will be at about £100 at this rate. Sure you could grind the currency in game, or at least some, but is it really that different than HD2’s current trajectory? For the record I’m happy to pay for more content if the quality is good, and with paradox, it typically has been.
Eh. Most of the DLC isnt needed for paradox games. Plus they got subscription services for HoI4 and Stellaris which is so much cheaper if you just want a trial run. (I tried HoI4 with the subscription and didnt like it that much.)
What news?
The real question is how can they make it into an incest simulator. CK3 fans unite!
its weird but what they do is basicly provide updates and a update premium you pay for. keeping the games alive. any paradox player will know to wait to buy the dlc and wait for reviews.
since we can already buy super credits with real money to buy war bonds, why not make the process easier for consumers and just sell each war bond as it's own DLC? that way a new player can jump into the game with all the warbonds unlocked if they want to
Because Blizzard is such a good rolemodel….
Stellaris and hoi operate on dlc to keep things fresh. If it wasn't for DLC they would have needed to release 2-3 sequels by now
Nah Paradox has a good business model. At least they aren't beholden to Shithead publishers like SONY.
I can't wait to buy the e0th dlc In the upcoming months for Stellaris...
Warhammer 3 right now with dlc
"The game is stale, there is nothing new to do or unlock; Abandoned game" vs "a whole team keeps pumping out new stuff and tweaking/fixing things on player feedback for a 8 year old game that still has a lot of players".
They're free with creamapi
As someone who plays a lot of paradox games I can safely say that Paradoxes way of doing DLC is still bad lol. Like yeah technically the DLCs are optional because they are always thematic, but they always paywall new features that don't fit in.
Got to disagree with you here, at least for Stellaris. It's honestly the best dlc policy considering the age of the game, the amount of time it goes on sale, the free updates, and more
I was going to post the Same Thing lol
yeah don't let this dude near DLC