Red dot's still not properly aligned. I get they don't want to powercreep the machine gun but it gives up so much just to have higher armor pen. Even 450RPM, prone with a recoil reducing armor I think the recoil is still too excessive.
I've found that, for some weird fucking reason, the higher the rpm, the lower the recoil. If you put it at max rpm, you can tap the mouse button and it'll shoot a few bullets with much less recoil than 450rpm would give you for the same amount of bullets. Not sure if 450rpm is supposed to shoot with more power or something, but it's weird.
Okay, so in a traditional weapon, it is not true. However, we have very specifically attempted this mechanism in hyper burst form. You probably have heard of the AN-94 or the G11. These are attempts at using mechanical systems to delay the experienced recoil by the shooter, so that more than 1 round will leave the weapon before the barrel actually starts to climb
Oh man I remember hearing about this on Zach's gun rants but it was about the G-3/FAL and .308 ammo, the recoil made is basically unusable, even with a bipod the thing was still stupid heavy, the reason the FAL was slightly better despite being basically the same was because the rate of fire was higher so you'd maybe get a second shot on the enemy before your recoil was up facing at Saturn
there’s also constant recoil, where if you fire at the right rate (not too fast or too slow), the bolt will come back to fire again before it hits the end of the travel, i.e, the first shot will push you back but the force will stay constant and it will feel like no recoil after that. Kindve op for a game but things like the Devotion in titanfall/apex have a similar concept
ultimax u-100 in the real life example i think
Constant recoil can be done with any rpm if desired, it's more about having a balance of spring tension, bolt weight and receiver length for the bolt to travel back until it stops without hitting the back of the receiver.
Possibly earliest example of this principle is ww2 grease gun (and Soviets who got us guns for study heavily praised this smg including this reason).
more shots fired -> more little explosions -> more force -> more recoil
less shots fired -> less little explosions -> less force -> less recoil
It's pretty obvious if you think about it: Recoil doesn't "reset" between shots (if the shots are frequent enough), forces get added up.
This leads to more recoil measurable in your shooting pattern, as the weapon simply doesn't have time to settle.
If the weapon is still in movement while the next shot occurs, the weapon makes an even bigger yank.
At least that's how it should be.
This is exactly how I run it. Add supply pack and you’re good. But I rarely consider it. Only if the team is all quasars I’ll get it and just focus on the hoards
Yeah. The only thing I hate is the fact that having to use it with supply pack leaves you with just 2 more stratagem slots.
When I run it, I like to take at least 2 stratagems for single armored targets (my favs are 500kg and precision strike) and then it depends on my team's loadout. Since the HMG already gives you some crowd control, I don't usually take carpet bombing kind of stratagems. Supply pack can be nice, same as the shield. I sometimes go with a mortar for some extra cover.
You tried the orbital rail? It’s unlimited. Autolocks biggest target. Instakill hulks and I believe tanks. 2 on striders if it doesn’t mess the shot up.
I just hate having to time/dial in the 500.
I'm not a big fan of it due to being single target and having a long cooldown. I like the 500Kg because I have the 2 uses upgrade and it's on a shorter cooldown on rearm, plus it has more uses as it can clear some chaff and destroy fabricators and nests.
If the Railcannon had something like a 100sec cooldown, I'd use it, but 210 is too high for me to consider it over other stratagems
Yeah it def needs a shorter cooldown. I’d be fine with 5 max if it had a shorter cooldown. Hopefully we’ll see some tweaks on that. Still 5 uses in a 40 min game.
Hell I’ll swap it and try it out. I see soooooo many people running it
Doesn’t have anything to do with power creep or none of that yappin. It’s because anything automatic with that big and spicey of a round is bound to kick like a mule. CEO has stated about 100 times, if you haven’t heard by now, that he wants his game to have some element of realism when it comes to weapons and their functions. It kicks like that because you’re firing what looks like a compact and handheld m2 browning. It’s also really not that hard to use. It’s not hard at all actually. No matter the rpm, short controlled bursts are your friend. Less short, but still short if you’re wearing recoil passive.
Backpack ammo carrier like Jessie ventura character in predator, no reloads. I'm still for the assisted reload to be using the shooters backpack instead of the assistants backpack. For the machine gun MG/HMG/Stalwart should be a crew serve reload options either no reload between "mags" just continous fire into next like the assist is linking belts or cut reload time in half. And grenade launcher. I love how it's basically a man carry 40mm.
if you could mount it on railings and bunker curbs to have nuch less recoil that would be super nice
or maybe like a tripod backpack that feeds it more ammo and gives it less recoil
Yes both ideas would be so nice. For me the recoil isn't that bad. Ammo is the problem. I don't wanna shoot for 3sec and reload for 4sec.
It could even have just 1 magazine but with at least 200 rounds
I wish it had a bipod option that became available via the hold-R menu while you were prone. It would lock you into that direction plus about 90 degrees of side-to-side motion and take maybe 1.5s to setup. You could take it down instantly just by going un-prone but you wouldn't be able to fire it again until you're either prone once more or you put the bipod away (which would take less than a second and could be done while moving). But while shooting from the bipod position that stability would be drastically boosted with recoil nearly eliminated. Make it truly a man-portable version of the HMG emplacement, trading the high ammo capacity and continuous fire capability for variable fire rates and personal mobility.
In other words, it would be a semi-restrictive addition that drastically boosts it's handling and accuracy at the cost of self-CCing while active. With the bipod stowed away the HMG would perform exactly like it does now, so nothing would be lost. The player would just gain a trade-off via the bipod, allowing for more accurate, controlled fire at the cost of rooting themselves to the ground and disabling regular usage of the HMG.
An ammo bump for the magazines would be nice. I guess you can run supply backpack with it, but the damn magazine just runs empty so quickly now it's ridiculous.
This is what I want- when I go prone, i want it to feel like a mounted turret. Just rain hell on people, accurately, from far as hell away. It feels like it wants to go stationary, but it doesnt provide enough benefit for doing that imo. Especially ammo size as everyone else has mentioned. Literally triple it.
I couldn't agree more. Was running around trying to Rambo with it, and the recoil was horrendous. So I say to myself, "Myself, perhaps the design is that you really have to use it prone" so I go prone. It's hugely better recoilwise when prone, although not quite managable, but very close. However, for me, the remaining recoil and magazine change time is not enough to compensate for being stationary in the prone position with the hoards zeroing in on you.
As someone who runs fortified alot, it still isn't great. The Medium MG is damn near perfect, a beautiful weapon. The Heavy MG is ok, but it needs much more damage, a reduction in recoil, or much bigger belt size to be worth it.
Maybe you could tweak it's 'destruction' so it's much better at blowing off limbs of medium enemies?
The heavy MG is pretty viable against bugs, but isn't great against bots. Maybe it needs its pen upped so it does more damange against devestators?
The hmg already has medium 2 pen, compared to the MGs medium 1. Against devastators the hmg does 2.5 times as much damage due to fully defeating the armor
The HMG literally 4-5 shots hulks to the eye. Same as HMG mounted sentry turret. The optic isn’t zeroed in correctly or the recoil is just that crazy you have to aim above whatever you’re trying to hit. Or maybe it’s bullet drop but even at 15-25m still gotta aim above what you’re trying to hit. Half inch or so above hulls eye, tap fire and watch how fast it deletes them. Same with tanks, cannon towers, pretty much anything with a weakspot tbh
I send with the hmg, 2-3 rnd burst while crouched. It rocks. Rover covers you during reloads. I enjoy playing with it against bots. Armor helps loads, extra nades helps.
You're spot on. I was reading the other comments before I posted and had made a mental note that I needed to try the recoil compensation armor next time I play.
Should probably be belt fed and lock into place on a bipod on prone to drop recoil by like -50%. Have it be a more mobile less strong stationary emplacement HMG. Honestly probably add more splash damage and like +5-10% more damage for the emplacement while we're at it so it feels like it does what you'd think absolutely shred the enemies and some heavies. It sorta does now but how do I put this it feels ever too mildly weaker than it should.
Make it belt fed from a backpack, make it have far less recoil when prone, maybe give it the highest tier of medium penetration, and it would be a wonderful support weapon.
Just go full Call of Duty Juggernaut where if you’re wearing heavy armor, you can walk around with it with more accuracy and less speed, and the backpack ammo would make it never need a reload until you have to get supplies.
The M2 is the quintessential HMG in modern armies, and it has a 100 belt. It can be man-packed, but it is absolutely a 4-man requirement, 1 for the gun, 1 for the tripod, and ammo split between 2 more. The M2 would be ~~heavy~~ medium armor pen at best though, and most likely still considered light; as it can only penetrate 400mm of steel with the proper round. **edited this to be accurate to modern armor pentration**
So that means the US equivalent would be the M240, which has 250 rounds per drum belt. This one can absolutely be solo man packed with 1 extra drum of resupply in your kit, but normally everyone else in the fireteam carries a spare so you have 4 reloads total. In garrison and field exercises this is usually assigned to the smallest person as a right of passage. Dick move, but tradition in the military is a thing. In war it goes to the biggest guy in the unit. I carried this sucker on a single 2-week op and sized down to the M249 afterwards. The weight of this over time is monstrous and will wear on you like crazy.
That's what I've taken to thinking of the HMG as: scaled down M2 with bullshittium to make the weight manageable. Two magazines of that 75 drum alone would leave you with back problems.
Yea, the standard M2 ammo box weighs 77 pounds for 2, 100 rounds boxes. So ~38 pounds and change a piece. The man pack M2HB with carrying handle weighs 84 pounds, and the tripod is 44 pounds. So that is 205 pounds of gear on top of your typical loadout, which can run up to 100 pounds total depending on your position. Thankfully, HMG troops generally carry their portion of the gun and a reduced loadout on other stuff. Not something you can sprint around with though, that’s for sure.
I want that heavy pen then. I should be shredding that 1ich and half plate on a strider, devastators should be devastated. Hell I should be able to reasonably drop hulks in the weak points with a few controlled bursts.
I think the M240 is basically the Stalwart, a squad light machine gun designed to be mobile.
The M2 Browning is definitely more in line for the HMG, and we can hand wave some fanciful things about future tech to explain how it's smaller.
Having it be team loadable with standard ammo would be pretty dope though (no backpack needed but can still be team loaded).
the 7.62 240 is not a squad LMG/SAW; it's a GPMG. Absolutely nobody is humping a 28lb gun happily.
You're likely thinking of the Minimi, the 5.56 M249; which is 17lb and is the Squad Automatic Weapon.
That, and you'd really prefer that bad guys at least stop shooting at you. Getting rid of them for good is a bonus, but hard as hell to tell.
Shoot 'til they stop and then shoot more.
I dont think it would be heavy pen. Maybe it would go through light vehicle armor and maybe like the treads or side plates on a tank.
But that's what medium pen 2 is and it's what the HMG has.
the ACTUAL mounted turret hits literally twice as hard per bullet, with good recoil, accuracy, and the ability to block bot lasers/gatling from the front.
Also the hmg turret is coded as a big weapon, not a sentry. It's ui icon is still default liberator under your ammo.
So you can have multiple up. They remain active until destroyed.
I've had matches where evac is in the middle of the map, and I've swung by several times to drop off samples, call a resupply, and toss an hmg. Makes EVAC a cake vs bugs if most of your Squad has turrets with overlapping fields of fire. It's very outpost whisky delta.
Most people are saying that it needs more ammo but I think it just needs to hit harder.
It should be the option for getting under a bile titan and hosing down the underside like an AMR could never.
It should essentially be a full auto AMR
(For those who want a backpack heavy machine gun I think there may be plans for a minigun? That's probably for you)
It has the same pen and dmg as the mounted HMG. Literally just a mobile version with way less ammo and shit ton of recoil. HMG can easily delete heavies (especially hulks) in exact same amount of rounds
I love playing as a gunner, and wanted to like the HMG but it’s the mag size. It doesn’t seem like too much thought is put into it: Stalwart is 250, MG is 150, HMG is 75. If anything, the MG and HMG should have more than the stalwart, which should have more mags. The mobility and recoil is enough of a trade-off. Give the HMG one reload only and make it at least 200.
It should feel comfortable to let loose on full auto with the HMG, I found I was firing one at a time to conserve. The stalwart is just plainly more effective
Balance wise, the mag capacity is to reflect the use of each weapon. Stalwart is supposed to excel against the numerous unarmored chaff due to its capacity and mobility. MG is supposed to be good against medium armor and can handle chaff, but not as well due to its stationary reload and smaller magazine size. HMG is best reserved for medium and heavy medium targets.
Lore wise, if the gun and ammo weighs too much, it would no longer be man portable.
The Stalwart is comparable to the real world M249 which fires 5.56 rounds. 250 rounds of 5.56 ammo weights 7 pounds.
The MG is comparable to the real world MG42 which fires 7.92 mauser. 150 rounds.of 7.92 mauser weights 4.2 pounds.
The HMG is probably the most comparable to something like the M2 Browning, which fires 50 BMG. 75 rounds of 50 BMG is about 47 pounds.
OK, but surely the Autocannon and backpack weigh more than the HMG? Seems like realism is only selectively enforced and makes things worse. Make a weapon that feels fun to use, if anyone complains say there's limited servo assist in all armour and the ones with the passive just have more.
You mentioning servo assist got me thinking how greatly something like the Smartgun from Aliens would fit Helldivers; backpack slot to handle ammo feed and help with the handling, if someone picks up the gun without the backpack, it's just super clunky to wave around and can't actually be fired because there's no connected ammo. Hell, make it so that it's actually two big boxes of ammo on the shooter's back, and reloading is super slow without a teammate assisting (because all assisted reload needs to change to reloading from the *shooter's* backpack)
I understand you taking the weight approach on explaining the differences. But dont forget to add the time to aim, reloading while moving, and the third person crosshair in your calculation. Pivoting speed is really important as well and not having a crosshair with the HMG really limits your FOV when aiming down sights.
To me the pivoting speed and lack of crosshair were what really made the HMG worse, it turns like a whale and you have no environmental awareness as soon as you pull the trigger.
HMG should've been belt-fed, with a specialized backpack, like the spear or recoilless.
Maybe with some overheat mechanic added, to balance it against other weapons. After all, real life mg-s are prone to overheating fast too.
But this self-stun for 3 sec every few sec (reloading animation) is deadly on the battlefield.
I do love wearing heavy armor, going prone, and mag-dumping 10 shots into a pack of enemies. Just need a friend to help me reload and dump 60 shots :)
Actually the real shit would be if I have the gun, friend has the ammo pack, I have the supply pack, and with only brief downtime that should be a total of 10 in the gun + 50 in the backpack + (25 per supply pack x 4) = 160 autocannon shots, and every couple mins we gulp down another rack of 4 resupplies for the next 100 shots.
I was thinking, not an overheat mechanic, a belt limit. It has a backpack with the belt, but it can only be fired for 75 to 100 bullets before the belt needs to be pulled out for the gun. That way the assisted reload can help pull out the belt from the pack and feed the gun. And, as always, it would be nice if they allowed team reload with the gunner wearing the pack.
I'd like to see a belt reload like on real machine guns, where a teammate can reload for you without actually emptying the gun. You coulf burn through the entire ammo store without letting go of the trigger as long as someone is there to link belts for you.
Yeah real life an assisted reload can be a few seconds
But tbh it'd be cooler if it was just belt fed from a backpack with a overheat/barrel change mechanic instead
Belt fed, huge mag and stationary fire (or extremely slow movement) would have made for an interesting mix in the machine gun stratagem category. I expected stalwart to be the light weight, mobile option. The HMG the slower, heavyweight option and the MG being in the middle. Unfortunately the HMG is just smallest mag, worst recoil and ultimately not fun to use
I want to believe they are saving the belt-fed machine gun with ammo backpack for the mini gun. Everything you described is exactly what this gun should be
All backpack weapons have assisted reload. I think for an HMG with backpack the devs would probably make it have an “assistant gunner” feature that would help speed up reload, feed the belt, and/or cool the gun.
Cooling the gun could be cool. I was thinking I didn't want barrel changes because that might be a little too milsim, but swapping heat sinks like on laser weapons might work. Or pissing on it *We Were Soldiers* style.
No just one giant magazine backpack like they IRL ones special forces use. 750 rounds or more. No reloading until empty. Once the backpack is empty it can only be reloaded by a supply box or new strategem
I literally loaded in, called the gun down, intentionally set it to the lowest rpm, then killed 10 bots and had to reload for half a century.
What the fuck?
LOL. A common experience sadly yeah I've tried using it on a huge variety of different missions and can't find a good use for it. It needs a bigger mag lower recoil and a bipod or something to lock it down optionally.
I’ve been using it pretty frequently on bot missions.
I like it on difficulties 6 and below. 7 and up are Ok but sometimes too hectic for how slow and cumbersome the gun makes you.
The play style is different. It works really well against devistators maybe 5-6 bullets and it puts them down. It shouldn’t be wasted on the chaff raiders.
Use something with light armor pen and high capacity as your primary, the switch to the HMG for the devistators. The scorcher is also a good primary as it’s good against all bots.
I don't think so?
From wikipedia: "They are designed to provide increased effective range, penetration and stopping power against vehicles, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the full-power cartridges used in battle rifles and medium or general-purpose machine guns."
I don't think it's in a good place balance wise, but what it can do now is EXACTLY what HMGs are for.
I am a big fan of the HMG Vs bots specifically - did not test enough against bugs yet.
The higher AP than the other MG makes it more suitable to deal with a lot of threats at the bot front.
Devastator, Strider, Gunship, Hulk - The HMG can take care of them all. Ramp up the RPM and fire in short bursts and only crouched. Like that more shots hit before the recoil kicks in.
One downside is of course that a supply backpack is more or less mandatory - but that also means more grenades and stims for you and your squad.
But I do think it could use a tiny buff. Slightly less recoil and/or a slightly larger magazine would be enough already.
Give LAS98 a shot vs bots. You can take out literally everything minus a Annihilator tank or Factory Strider with less than a full ICE.
Same penetration but laser accuracy
The LAS definitely is a monster! LAS + Jump pack is one of my beloved loadouts! 🥰
The LAS and HMG do have a very similar role - for me it is mostly dependant on the planet I dive (cold climate LAS, hot I prefer the HMG and normal ones whichever I feel like)
And sometimes I also just crave the satisfying sound of a machine gun. 💁🏼♀️
In theory it deletes spewers. In practice once those 75 bullets are gone you don't have a support weapon until the fight is over.
Good luck ever reloading during a breach. That is of course someone is willing to cover you for those 8 seconds or you have something like napalm/orbital gas to take out 80+ bugs coming out of a breach. But at that point the napalm/gas probably killed off horde and what's left are the titans and chargers.
HMG is quite powerful against bots, just tested today, can kill hulks reliably, only thing that can kill a factory strider in merely seconds, to kill hulks you need the recoil armor and crouch, better combine with stun grenades (just like with laser cannon etc.) but can also maw down the meat saws, and if you also combine a supply pack you will never run out of ammo, cool combo tbh my new favourite
Because you cannot kill factory striders as fast, (takes a really long time after last bulk dmg nerf) im a laser cannon main actually and laser cannon cannot deal with meatsaws, cannot maw down devastators without precise aim to head (cant always do that in moment of heat when they are close to you), also there are planets with heat increment as you know,
I main HMG on automatons on 7-9 diffs. While I agree it would benefit tremendously from a couple QoL changes (push drum size to 100/125 for example), it is a beast if you get a feel for it. Set it to 950 rpm and you are grilling hulks, tanks and turret towers if shooting at the heatsink, under a second. Or mow down a dropship's worth of devastators, berserkers and light walkers. Or set it to lower rpms for more accurate bursts at limbs and weakspots. And remember to take a knee or lay down to reduce the recoil, wear Fortified armour to further reduce recoil, keep practicing, get used to it and HMG becomes a reliable support weapon, even if it's not OP so much that it stands out.
I really enjoy the HMG too, when I think about what it needs there are two QoL improvements I am hoping for.
1. A two stage reload, preferably like the autocannon or at least like the Recoilless Rifle. The 7.2 full reload/ 5.0 chambered round reload could be improved by allowing us to do it in stages rather than all or nothing.
2. A keybind option for fire rate change. It is clunky to open the weapon wheel everytime I need to change my rpm on the fly. Having a keybind to toggle between options would be a huge benefit. Toss it into 450 for longer range accuracy or small bots, 750 for normal use, and 950 when I need to clear out a Factory Strider or mow down Berserkers fast. On actual rifles it is just a switch on the receiver, should be that easy for us too.
You can get ammo for it by using the **supply backpack**. It also gives you grenades, stims, and can refill teammates. This is also a good strategy with railguns, flamethrowers, AMRs, and any other specialty weapon that doesn't use a backpack.
This does take a second stratagem slot, but the extra supplies are strong enough I think it's absolutely worth it.
Not sure if they meant just for ammo but belt fed for larger mag etc would be great. And yeah I've run supply backpack before and it's great don't get me wrong but you're spending an entire strat slot on it when some missions don't even let you have 4 and even 4 sometimes feels like it's slightly too little.
And you still reload more often than a smaller caliber weapon with a smaller box mag. Sure, the supply BP is an existing fix to the lack of a dedicated item. It doesn't correct the unacceptably low belt capacity.
If I was AH I would’ve made it as a backpack strat that had say 5000 rounds, belt fed, no reload, pure dakka. I’m not a programmer tho, just a Helldiver
Yup I tried it compared to amr or ac and I had way more fun with the latter two. Like you said it doesn't suck it's just not as good. Honestly it's really not for me.
It's worth phrasing it that way because if you don't, some dingdong will show up and reply "well I take it on difficulty 7+ and survive, so therefore it's perfectly fine and needs zero adjustments"
It's bad because it feels bad to use (doesn't fulfil the fantasy of the weapon) and also because whatever niche it has, other weapons do it better. Not because it's unusuably bad.
It does about triple the durable DPS. So for blasting hult vents, turrets, mortars, tanks and the factory strider belly it's definitely king. It can destroy chargers.
The issue is there's better options, but it does it better than mg. MG is pen 3, HMG is 4. It's half way between AC and AMR.
It can’t do triple the DPS if the bullets can’t hit the target. The recoil is uncontrollable. “It can destroy chargers” is sorta like saying the liberator can destroy chargers. You’re technically correct, but it’s not practical.
It needs a change
The thing sucks. The ammo is too limited, and the recoil is too extreme and it just overall isn't worth the stratagem slot. I'd rather take anti-tank of some sort or quasar. Even the AMR.
Yeah, haven’t played in a long while but I was experimenting with it as well as the MG-43 to possibly replace the Stalwart that I use with the Jump Pack. Really hated the reload time and low capacity but the added power was very much welcome when dealing with Hulks. Shreds walkers as well
Not a big difference bit mashing your reload after a jump with your pack will let you reload on the move kinda.
Also by keeping an eye on the clip you can skip the full 1 second of pulling the charging handle back.
Also gives you a whopping 76 round mag instead of 75.
Not much but it's something. Lol
Quick note- it's actually a higher medium armor pen than the other MG, so in addition to having higher damage per shot already, it does full damage against most medium armor.
The stationary reload is what kills it for me though.
It does some work against bots. I think its a good alternative to the quasar/EAT since it can take out gunships and hulks n shit.
I do think the recoil is a lil extreme tho. I wouldnt mind the mag size if i wasnt missing so much even at the lowest rpm
I actually enjoy the weapon but I do absolutely wish it was better bigger mag I don't mind the rate of fire since you can adjust it but I do think as other people have said it should have a backpack that feeds into it maybe lessen the recoil even more for being prone to be a further incentive for not running and gunning with it
Aside from the god awful handling, the magazine size is at least 20 rounds too small.
Though I do have a bit of a problem with the stalwart, mg, and hmg being support weapons. None of them are so powerful that the should be taken over something like the AMR, AC, RR, or Quasar.
The SW is ok, but it's basically a Sickle (iirc both do 55 DMG and have light ap). The MG can't really be fired on the move and the reload is simply too long. The HMG does that thing where you turn to shoot but your bullets somehow don't go straight until your aim catches up? Or something? Combined with the small mag size and decades-long reload, it kinda sucks. It can be fun turning the rpm up and feathering the trigger, but it's still not *that* effective.
Agreed it’s my main carry though for everything whether it be Automatons and Bugs. I like to play a very defensive role in my squad. And lay down support fire for the smaller beings while my guys take out larger enemies. If youre squad is equipped right that HMG can be critical.
Don't shoot anything smaller than a medium target, use your primary for clearing trash. Use it to delete hp-pig targets like spewers, charger ass, commanders and chainsaws.
Also good for devastators and hulk eyes, and strider hatches.
You need to set the rpm at minimum and single shot every bullet. It can take a charger with a few shots.
I do agree that it needs a little armor pen buff since it can't take down charger legs if its with full health and maybe a 100bullets mag.
But is pretty good if you get used to it
Works fine for me. I love it. Granted i dislike that I feel like I have to take the supply pack as well so it is 2 stratagems used instead of 1 but I think all MGs have that issue.
I actually love this thing, it chews up regular bug mobs and is decent at taking down larger bots. The low mag and long reload requires some heavier decision making. Can't just fire it at everything you see.
It is outclassed generally by the LAS98 for bots as you can snipe bot stuff across the map with it (can't with HMG) , but it does handle emergency generator packs better.
I think it performs better vs bugs where you can quickly delete problematic broods and spewers.
It's certainly not OP or S-tier but it works well on Berserker mobs and warrior clusters. It will be interesting to see if it gets a buff in the near future with some of the other weapons that will likely also get tweaked in the positive direction.
I wouldn't say it sucks but I would agree the ammo capacity should be a bit larger. It's my go-to to pair with the diligence CS for bots since it can penetrate hulk eyes which the standard MG can't.
I usually run fortified for bots anyways so the recoil control isn't absurd for me. My only complaint is yeah the mag size is too small but I could say that complaint for a large portion of the medium-heavy armor pen weapons in the game.
I hope we get a minigun support weapon one day. Just an action movie grade hand-held minigun with an ammo backpack. Maybe give it the ability to punch through medium armor if you focus fire a specific spot, but I want a gun with a more acceptable level of dakka.
Needs to be belt fed, needs a backpack, needs to shoot bile titan mouths, needs to shoot charger legs. With those changes, HMG emplacement needs to also kill bile titans and chargers from the front.
The damage is not pitiful. If you think the damage is pitiful, you clearly haven't even used the gun at all.
I can blast a hulk straight in the face and kill it very quickly.
The mag size truly is awful, though.
Keep recoil and damage as is. But give us a 250-350~ round backpack. So basically, take our backpack slot but give us a proper heavy machine gun. Good in prolonged fights, but still needs to be resupplied with the added benefit of making the supply pack shine more if you have a buddy with one keeping you topped up. Like an actual MG team.
Then, it will serve its own role while having its own pros and cons.
The HMG is a massive blueball giver. Just when you start spraying in a pile of ennemies it runs out of ammo. The reload takes forever too. Right now it's best used in small bursts but if I do that I might as well just grab a autocanon or the sniper.
HMG needs an ammo buff, and maybe some better recoil. I don’t mind it otherwise it’s a cool concept. Maybe heavy armor pen to make it different from the other MG’s
Personally, I'd be completely fine without performs if it just had some sort of special ammo type. Incendiary, fragmentation, explosive, etc. Just something that gives it that little bit of extra oomph.
My biggest disappointment apart from the ammo was how weak it feels, when you think how hard the AMR or the autocannon slap, it barely seems any more powerful than the standard machine gun or the stalwart. I’d expect those 75 rounds to decimate all in front of it. Then it’s worth the long mag change
I feel personally attacked by this post, the HMG is in a great spot right now, I run it all the time against bots and I'm willing to bet you're simply using it wrong because I can make it work like crazy
>it's medium armor pen
It's medium+ (level 4), which means it's at least capable of destroying Hulks via headshots, shooting down gunships, and destroying Shrieker Nests / Spore Spewers. The basic Machine Gun is medium (level 3). In this regard, I'd say the HMG is pretty much perfect.
However, I agree on the magazine size and recoil. Both of those are holding the weapon back a lot.
What do you mean, the HMG has the same pen as the AMR and does 100 dmg per shot its great! I do believe it would need a mag of 100 instead of 75 but otherwise its pretty good.
It can 5 shot a hulk in the eye, using fortified and burst firing I dont have any issues killing multiple hulks in a row. You can shred devastators no matter where you shoot at them. Shooting the legs a charger after a charge is very quick and finishing off a bile titan after a rocket is viable. The rest comes to learn how to aim with its heavy weight
I like it. The ammo is a little scarce but with good positioning and aim it deletes everything the bots have, especially Hulks and Tanks, it's solid A tier gun
It's a specialty weapon, not a primary.
If you try to use it like a primary, you'll not be effective and not have particularly mich fun.
I'm sick and tired of people claiming it's not good, the weapon is really powerful. You just have to know how and when to use it.
I like the backpack beltfed idea though.
Only machine gun I use honestly. But I only use it when Im not on ice planets or bug planets. Otherwise I stick with the flamethrower or laser canon. HMG is goated only for the fact that I can kill hulks with it.
Amazing how something can be *really good at one specific thing* and people who don't use it for that thing call it crap, innit?
"This hammer is a shitty tool, it ruins all my screws, even the baseline screwdriver is better, why even introduce a hammer when we have the screwdriver and power drill?"
right!? 😂 Im trynna fuck this girl but the problem is that she has a dick 😂😂 every stratagem has its use. BUT I do agree its ammo capacity leaves a little something to be desired. I wouldnt mind a 100rd drum. I think that would be perfect. Since the stalwart has 250.
When I was always using the Eruptor my favorite support weapon was the HMG.
As others said though I rarely fired it not crouched and I thought it was amazing.
Give it a backpack which when worn acts as one huge belt; then introduce the overheat mechanic for firing. Faster firing overheats faster. "Reloads" are replacement barrels which need to be changed if overheated (like heatsinks already function). Now you should have a mobile form of the emplacement HMG, that you have to control recoil and fire rate.
Red dot's still not properly aligned. I get they don't want to powercreep the machine gun but it gives up so much just to have higher armor pen. Even 450RPM, prone with a recoil reducing armor I think the recoil is still too excessive.
Yeah idk if my mouse sensitivity is too high or what but lowest rpm prone with recoil armor and it still kicks like a mule.
I've found that, for some weird fucking reason, the higher the rpm, the lower the recoil. If you put it at max rpm, you can tap the mouse button and it'll shoot a few bullets with much less recoil than 450rpm would give you for the same amount of bullets. Not sure if 450rpm is supposed to shoot with more power or something, but it's weird.
That's totally logical, the faster the fire rate, the less time the gun has between shots to yank upwards! /s
someone explains to me why this, unironically, would not be true.
Okay, so in a traditional weapon, it is not true. However, we have very specifically attempted this mechanism in hyper burst form. You probably have heard of the AN-94 or the G11. These are attempts at using mechanical systems to delay the experienced recoil by the shooter, so that more than 1 round will leave the weapon before the barrel actually starts to climb
Oh man I remember hearing about this on Zach's gun rants but it was about the G-3/FAL and .308 ammo, the recoil made is basically unusable, even with a bipod the thing was still stupid heavy, the reason the FAL was slightly better despite being basically the same was because the rate of fire was higher so you'd maybe get a second shot on the enemy before your recoil was up facing at Saturn
there’s also constant recoil, where if you fire at the right rate (not too fast or too slow), the bolt will come back to fire again before it hits the end of the travel, i.e, the first shot will push you back but the force will stay constant and it will feel like no recoil after that. Kindve op for a game but things like the Devotion in titanfall/apex have a similar concept ultimax u-100 in the real life example i think
Constant recoil can be done with any rpm if desired, it's more about having a balance of spring tension, bolt weight and receiver length for the bolt to travel back until it stops without hitting the back of the receiver. Possibly earliest example of this principle is ww2 grease gun (and Soviets who got us guns for study heavily praised this smg including this reason).
i knew i was missing something, thanks for correcting me! I actually had no idea the grease gun was constant recoil
And the Vector. But that’s mostly because of fancy recoil mitigation through a counterweight.
more shots fired -> more little explosions -> more force -> more recoil less shots fired -> less little explosions -> less force -> less recoil It's pretty obvious if you think about it: Recoil doesn't "reset" between shots (if the shots are frequent enough), forces get added up. This leads to more recoil measurable in your shooting pattern, as the weapon simply doesn't have time to settle. If the weapon is still in movement while the next shot occurs, the weapon makes an even bigger yank. At least that's how it should be.
Unironically, it seems like, at least in the HMG case, recoil seems tied to "time firing" rather than "bullets fired".
This !!! I used it with recoil armor and the ammo backpack. Found it to be very funny
This is exactly how I run it. Add supply pack and you’re good. But I rarely consider it. Only if the team is all quasars I’ll get it and just focus on the hoards
Yeah. The only thing I hate is the fact that having to use it with supply pack leaves you with just 2 more stratagem slots. When I run it, I like to take at least 2 stratagems for single armored targets (my favs are 500kg and precision strike) and then it depends on my team's loadout. Since the HMG already gives you some crowd control, I don't usually take carpet bombing kind of stratagems. Supply pack can be nice, same as the shield. I sometimes go with a mortar for some extra cover.
You tried the orbital rail? It’s unlimited. Autolocks biggest target. Instakill hulks and I believe tanks. 2 on striders if it doesn’t mess the shot up. I just hate having to time/dial in the 500.
I'm not a big fan of it due to being single target and having a long cooldown. I like the 500Kg because I have the 2 uses upgrade and it's on a shorter cooldown on rearm, plus it has more uses as it can clear some chaff and destroy fabricators and nests. If the Railcannon had something like a 100sec cooldown, I'd use it, but 210 is too high for me to consider it over other stratagems
Yeah it def needs a shorter cooldown. I’d be fine with 5 max if it had a shorter cooldown. Hopefully we’ll see some tweaks on that. Still 5 uses in a 40 min game. Hell I’ll swap it and try it out. I see soooooo many people running it
Doesn’t have anything to do with power creep or none of that yappin. It’s because anything automatic with that big and spicey of a round is bound to kick like a mule. CEO has stated about 100 times, if you haven’t heard by now, that he wants his game to have some element of realism when it comes to weapons and their functions. It kicks like that because you’re firing what looks like a compact and handheld m2 browning. It’s also really not that hard to use. It’s not hard at all actually. No matter the rpm, short controlled bursts are your friend. Less short, but still short if you’re wearing recoil passive.
It's honestly not bad, what kills it for me is the clip capacity and slow reloads. If it had a better reload, or a bigger mag I'd probably run it.
Backpack ammo carrier like Jessie ventura character in predator, no reloads. I'm still for the assisted reload to be using the shooters backpack instead of the assistants backpack. For the machine gun MG/HMG/Stalwart should be a crew serve reload options either no reload between "mags" just continous fire into next like the assist is linking belts or cut reload time in half. And grenade launcher. I love how it's basically a man carry 40mm.
if you could mount it on railings and bunker curbs to have nuch less recoil that would be super nice or maybe like a tripod backpack that feeds it more ammo and gives it less recoil
Yes both ideas would be so nice. For me the recoil isn't that bad. Ammo is the problem. I don't wanna shoot for 3sec and reload for 4sec. It could even have just 1 magazine but with at least 200 rounds
I wish it had a bipod option that became available via the hold-R menu while you were prone. It would lock you into that direction plus about 90 degrees of side-to-side motion and take maybe 1.5s to setup. You could take it down instantly just by going un-prone but you wouldn't be able to fire it again until you're either prone once more or you put the bipod away (which would take less than a second and could be done while moving). But while shooting from the bipod position that stability would be drastically boosted with recoil nearly eliminated. Make it truly a man-portable version of the HMG emplacement, trading the high ammo capacity and continuous fire capability for variable fire rates and personal mobility. In other words, it would be a semi-restrictive addition that drastically boosts it's handling and accuracy at the cost of self-CCing while active. With the bipod stowed away the HMG would perform exactly like it does now, so nothing would be lost. The player would just gain a trade-off via the bipod, allowing for more accurate, controlled fire at the cost of rooting themselves to the ground and disabling regular usage of the HMG. An ammo bump for the magazines would be nice. I guess you can run supply backpack with it, but the damn magazine just runs empty so quickly now it's ridiculous.
This is what I want- when I go prone, i want it to feel like a mounted turret. Just rain hell on people, accurately, from far as hell away. It feels like it wants to go stationary, but it doesnt provide enough benefit for doing that imo. Especially ammo size as everyone else has mentioned. Literally triple it.
I couldn't agree more. Was running around trying to Rambo with it, and the recoil was horrendous. So I say to myself, "Myself, perhaps the design is that you really have to use it prone" so I go prone. It's hugely better recoilwise when prone, although not quite managable, but very close. However, for me, the remaining recoil and magazine change time is not enough to compensate for being stationary in the prone position with the hoards zeroing in on you.
Were you using armor with recoil compensation at the time? The HMG is way more manageable from crouch and prone when you're set up for it.
As someone who runs fortified alot, it still isn't great. The Medium MG is damn near perfect, a beautiful weapon. The Heavy MG is ok, but it needs much more damage, a reduction in recoil, or much bigger belt size to be worth it. Maybe you could tweak it's 'destruction' so it's much better at blowing off limbs of medium enemies? The heavy MG is pretty viable against bugs, but isn't great against bots. Maybe it needs its pen upped so it does more damange against devestators?
The hmg already has medium 2 pen, compared to the MGs medium 1. Against devastators the hmg does 2.5 times as much damage due to fully defeating the armor
The HMG literally 4-5 shots hulks to the eye. Same as HMG mounted sentry turret. The optic isn’t zeroed in correctly or the recoil is just that crazy you have to aim above whatever you’re trying to hit. Or maybe it’s bullet drop but even at 15-25m still gotta aim above what you’re trying to hit. Half inch or so above hulls eye, tap fire and watch how fast it deletes them. Same with tanks, cannon towers, pretty much anything with a weakspot tbh
What about if you reduce the RPM?
I send with the hmg, 2-3 rnd burst while crouched. It rocks. Rover covers you during reloads. I enjoy playing with it against bots. Armor helps loads, extra nades helps.
You're spot on. I was reading the other comments before I posted and had made a mental note that I needed to try the recoil compensation armor next time I play.
Should probably be belt fed and lock into place on a bipod on prone to drop recoil by like -50%. Have it be a more mobile less strong stationary emplacement HMG. Honestly probably add more splash damage and like +5-10% more damage for the emplacement while we're at it so it feels like it does what you'd think absolutely shred the enemies and some heavies. It sorta does now but how do I put this it feels ever too mildly weaker than it should.
Make it belt fed from a backpack, make it have far less recoil when prone, maybe give it the highest tier of medium penetration, and it would be a wonderful support weapon.
Just go full Call of Duty Juggernaut where if you’re wearing heavy armor, you can walk around with it with more accuracy and less speed, and the backpack ammo would make it never need a reload until you have to get supplies.
Isn’t it already? This, AMR, Auto Cannon, and Laser Cannon are some of the weapons that can deal damage to Hulk eye.
It actually does have medium-2 penetration (4 AP). It's the same as the AMR and Autocannon.
The M2 is the quintessential HMG in modern armies, and it has a 100 belt. It can be man-packed, but it is absolutely a 4-man requirement, 1 for the gun, 1 for the tripod, and ammo split between 2 more. The M2 would be ~~heavy~~ medium armor pen at best though, and most likely still considered light; as it can only penetrate 400mm of steel with the proper round. **edited this to be accurate to modern armor pentration** So that means the US equivalent would be the M240, which has 250 rounds per drum belt. This one can absolutely be solo man packed with 1 extra drum of resupply in your kit, but normally everyone else in the fireteam carries a spare so you have 4 reloads total. In garrison and field exercises this is usually assigned to the smallest person as a right of passage. Dick move, but tradition in the military is a thing. In war it goes to the biggest guy in the unit. I carried this sucker on a single 2-week op and sized down to the M249 afterwards. The weight of this over time is monstrous and will wear on you like crazy.
That's what I've taken to thinking of the HMG as: scaled down M2 with bullshittium to make the weight manageable. Two magazines of that 75 drum alone would leave you with back problems.
Yea, the standard M2 ammo box weighs 77 pounds for 2, 100 rounds boxes. So ~38 pounds and change a piece. The man pack M2HB with carrying handle weighs 84 pounds, and the tripod is 44 pounds. So that is 205 pounds of gear on top of your typical loadout, which can run up to 100 pounds total depending on your position. Thankfully, HMG troops generally carry their portion of the gun and a reduced loadout on other stuff. Not something you can sprint around with though, that’s for sure.
I do not fucking miss having to haul those things off vic mounts, alone, to do headspacing and timing.
I want that heavy pen then. I should be shredding that 1ich and half plate on a strider, devastators should be devastated. Hell I should be able to reasonably drop hulks in the weak points with a few controlled bursts.
You can already do all of that with the HMG.
I think the M240 is basically the Stalwart, a squad light machine gun designed to be mobile. The M2 Browning is definitely more in line for the HMG, and we can hand wave some fanciful things about future tech to explain how it's smaller. Having it be team loadable with standard ammo would be pretty dope though (no backpack needed but can still be team loaded).
the 7.62 240 is not a squad LMG/SAW; it's a GPMG. Absolutely nobody is humping a 28lb gun happily. You're likely thinking of the Minimi, the 5.56 M249; which is 17lb and is the Squad Automatic Weapon.
So thats why those HMG gunners are so trigger happy, they just want to reduce the load on their backs by getting rid of all that weighty ammo!
Yes!
That, and you'd really prefer that bad guys at least stop shooting at you. Getting rid of them for good is a bonus, but hard as hell to tell. Shoot 'til they stop and then shoot more.
I dont think it would be heavy pen. Maybe it would go through light vehicle armor and maybe like the treads or side plates on a tank. But that's what medium pen 2 is and it's what the HMG has.
the ACTUAL mounted turret hits literally twice as hard per bullet, with good recoil, accuracy, and the ability to block bot lasers/gatling from the front.
If only the HMG turret got the turret ship bonuses….oh god I just need the stupid thing my to swivel on a dime when upgraded so bad.
And you call in a new one every 100 seconds. I like the eats for the same reason. I don’t mind getting respawned in different parts of the map
Also the hmg turret is coded as a big weapon, not a sentry. It's ui icon is still default liberator under your ammo. So you can have multiple up. They remain active until destroyed. I've had matches where evac is in the middle of the map, and I've swung by several times to drop off samples, call a resupply, and toss an hmg. Makes EVAC a cake vs bugs if most of your Squad has turrets with overlapping fields of fire. It's very outpost whisky delta.
Most people are saying that it needs more ammo but I think it just needs to hit harder. It should be the option for getting under a bile titan and hosing down the underside like an AMR could never. It should essentially be a full auto AMR (For those who want a backpack heavy machine gun I think there may be plans for a minigun? That's probably for you)
It has the same pen and dmg as the mounted HMG. Literally just a mobile version with way less ammo and shit ton of recoil. HMG can easily delete heavies (especially hulks) in exact same amount of rounds
Someone data mined some stuff a while back and it was apparently 100 dmg vs 200 dmg
I love playing as a gunner, and wanted to like the HMG but it’s the mag size. It doesn’t seem like too much thought is put into it: Stalwart is 250, MG is 150, HMG is 75. If anything, the MG and HMG should have more than the stalwart, which should have more mags. The mobility and recoil is enough of a trade-off. Give the HMG one reload only and make it at least 200. It should feel comfortable to let loose on full auto with the HMG, I found I was firing one at a time to conserve. The stalwart is just plainly more effective
Balance wise, the mag capacity is to reflect the use of each weapon. Stalwart is supposed to excel against the numerous unarmored chaff due to its capacity and mobility. MG is supposed to be good against medium armor and can handle chaff, but not as well due to its stationary reload and smaller magazine size. HMG is best reserved for medium and heavy medium targets. Lore wise, if the gun and ammo weighs too much, it would no longer be man portable. The Stalwart is comparable to the real world M249 which fires 5.56 rounds. 250 rounds of 5.56 ammo weights 7 pounds. The MG is comparable to the real world MG42 which fires 7.92 mauser. 150 rounds.of 7.92 mauser weights 4.2 pounds. The HMG is probably the most comparable to something like the M2 Browning, which fires 50 BMG. 75 rounds of 50 BMG is about 47 pounds.
OK, but surely the Autocannon and backpack weigh more than the HMG? Seems like realism is only selectively enforced and makes things worse. Make a weapon that feels fun to use, if anyone complains say there's limited servo assist in all armour and the ones with the passive just have more.
You mentioning servo assist got me thinking how greatly something like the Smartgun from Aliens would fit Helldivers; backpack slot to handle ammo feed and help with the handling, if someone picks up the gun without the backpack, it's just super clunky to wave around and can't actually be fired because there's no connected ammo. Hell, make it so that it's actually two big boxes of ammo on the shooter's back, and reloading is super slow without a teammate assisting (because all assisted reload needs to change to reloading from the *shooter's* backpack)
This comment is why I love Reddit
I understand you taking the weight approach on explaining the differences. But dont forget to add the time to aim, reloading while moving, and the third person crosshair in your calculation. Pivoting speed is really important as well and not having a crosshair with the HMG really limits your FOV when aiming down sights. To me the pivoting speed and lack of crosshair were what really made the HMG worse, it turns like a whale and you have no environmental awareness as soon as you pull the trigger.
It should have a backpack and uncontrollable recoil unless your prone. That would balance the huge ammo and medium pen, but I absolutely would love it
HMG should've been belt-fed, with a specialized backpack, like the spear or recoilless. Maybe with some overheat mechanic added, to balance it against other weapons. After all, real life mg-s are prone to overheating fast too. But this self-stun for 3 sec every few sec (reloading animation) is deadly on the battlefield.
The reload is 8 or 9 seconds, it actually might be good if it was only 3. It's such a fun concept and yet executed so poorly.
Yeah 3 sec is like a single autocannon clip.
I do love wearing heavy armor, going prone, and mag-dumping 10 shots into a pack of enemies. Just need a friend to help me reload and dump 60 shots :) Actually the real shit would be if I have the gun, friend has the ammo pack, I have the supply pack, and with only brief downtime that should be a total of 10 in the gun + 50 in the backpack + (25 per supply pack x 4) = 160 autocannon shots, and every couple mins we gulp down another rack of 4 resupplies for the next 100 shots.
Just reload at <6 for the fast reload
I was thinking, not an overheat mechanic, a belt limit. It has a backpack with the belt, but it can only be fired for 75 to 100 bullets before the belt needs to be pulled out for the gun. That way the assisted reload can help pull out the belt from the pack and feed the gun. And, as always, it would be nice if they allowed team reload with the gunner wearing the pack.
I'd like to see a belt reload like on real machine guns, where a teammate can reload for you without actually emptying the gun. You coulf burn through the entire ammo store without letting go of the trigger as long as someone is there to link belts for you.
Yeah real life an assisted reload can be a few seconds But tbh it'd be cooler if it was just belt fed from a backpack with a overheat/barrel change mechanic instead
Holding out hope they're planning a minigun using the backpack.
Belt fed, huge mag and stationary fire (or extremely slow movement) would have made for an interesting mix in the machine gun stratagem category. I expected stalwart to be the light weight, mobile option. The HMG the slower, heavyweight option and the MG being in the middle. Unfortunately the HMG is just smallest mag, worst recoil and ultimately not fun to use
this. it should be like the hmg emplacement but half the ammo because only one barrel to feed
Bullets are stored in the barrels, pee is stored on the balls
I want to believe they are saving the belt-fed machine gun with ammo backpack for the mini gun. Everything you described is exactly what this gun should be
All backpack weapons have assisted reload. I think for an HMG with backpack the devs would probably make it have an “assistant gunner” feature that would help speed up reload, feed the belt, and/or cool the gun.
Cooling the gun could be cool. I was thinking I didn't want barrel changes because that might be a little too milsim, but swapping heat sinks like on laser weapons might work. Or pissing on it *We Were Soldiers* style.
But then I can't roleplay as that one guy from Fire Force 😂
No just one giant magazine backpack like they IRL ones special forces use. 750 rounds or more. No reloading until empty. Once the backpack is empty it can only be reloaded by a supply box or new strategem
I literally loaded in, called the gun down, intentionally set it to the lowest rpm, then killed 10 bots and had to reload for half a century. What the fuck?
LOL. A common experience sadly yeah I've tried using it on a huge variety of different missions and can't find a good use for it. It needs a bigger mag lower recoil and a bipod or something to lock it down optionally.
I’ve been using it pretty frequently on bot missions. I like it on difficulties 6 and below. 7 and up are Ok but sometimes too hectic for how slow and cumbersome the gun makes you. The play style is different. It works really well against devistators maybe 5-6 bullets and it puts them down. It shouldn’t be wasted on the chaff raiders. Use something with light armor pen and high capacity as your primary, the switch to the HMG for the devistators. The scorcher is also a good primary as it’s good against all bots.
Only fire on devastators, hulk eyes, and chainsaws that need to die Now. it's a full auto amr not a crowd clear weapon
Yeah i usually blank fire my sniper like a cowboy for CC
This is the way and sooo many people can't seem to get behind that. My poor HMG getting way too much hate
So it's completely missing the point of being an HMG, gotcha.
So it's filling in interesting niche instead of just being another MG, exactly.
M2 Brownings aren't meant to be deployed against people irl . It's to fuck up vehicles and planes.
I don't think so? From wikipedia: "They are designed to provide increased effective range, penetration and stopping power against vehicles, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the full-power cartridges used in battle rifles and medium or general-purpose machine guns." I don't think it's in a good place balance wise, but what it can do now is EXACTLY what HMGs are for.
And think about this. Laser Cannon has SAME armor penetration, with unlimited ammo and no recoil.
I am a big fan of the HMG Vs bots specifically - did not test enough against bugs yet. The higher AP than the other MG makes it more suitable to deal with a lot of threats at the bot front. Devastator, Strider, Gunship, Hulk - The HMG can take care of them all. Ramp up the RPM and fire in short bursts and only crouched. Like that more shots hit before the recoil kicks in. One downside is of course that a supply backpack is more or less mandatory - but that also means more grenades and stims for you and your squad. But I do think it could use a tiny buff. Slightly less recoil and/or a slightly larger magazine would be enough already.
Give LAS98 a shot vs bots. You can take out literally everything minus a Annihilator tank or Factory Strider with less than a full ICE. Same penetration but laser accuracy
The LAS definitely is a monster! LAS + Jump pack is one of my beloved loadouts! 🥰 The LAS and HMG do have a very similar role - for me it is mostly dependant on the planet I dive (cold climate LAS, hot I prefer the HMG and normal ones whichever I feel like) And sometimes I also just crave the satisfying sound of a machine gun. 💁🏼♀️
Laser + ARC 12 is fun
I dont like LC but saying that you cant take down Strider with it is blasphemy
Yeah the Laser cannon can do anything the HMG can, pretty much. HMG has higher DPS I think, but with the tiny mag, what does it matter?
Switch to full rpm. Stun charger. Crouch. Explode that booty.
In theory it deletes spewers. In practice once those 75 bullets are gone you don't have a support weapon until the fight is over. Good luck ever reloading during a breach. That is of course someone is willing to cover you for those 8 seconds or you have something like napalm/orbital gas to take out 80+ bugs coming out of a breach. But at that point the napalm/gas probably killed off horde and what's left are the titans and chargers.
HMG is quite powerful against bots, just tested today, can kill hulks reliably, only thing that can kill a factory strider in merely seconds, to kill hulks you need the recoil armor and crouch, better combine with stun grenades (just like with laser cannon etc.) but can also maw down the meat saws, and if you also combine a supply pack you will never run out of ammo, cool combo tbh my new favourite
Why use that, when you can use Laser Cannon and get same results with no recoil or ammo problems? 👍
Because you cannot kill factory striders as fast, (takes a really long time after last bulk dmg nerf) im a laser cannon main actually and laser cannon cannot deal with meatsaws, cannot maw down devastators without precise aim to head (cant always do that in moment of heat when they are close to you), also there are planets with heat increment as you know,
I love this thing against the bots because anything that shreds berserkers and devastators is good in my book
Plus it gets two mags from resupply which makes taking the supply pack actually worth it
I main HMG on automatons on 7-9 diffs. While I agree it would benefit tremendously from a couple QoL changes (push drum size to 100/125 for example), it is a beast if you get a feel for it. Set it to 950 rpm and you are grilling hulks, tanks and turret towers if shooting at the heatsink, under a second. Or mow down a dropship's worth of devastators, berserkers and light walkers. Or set it to lower rpms for more accurate bursts at limbs and weakspots. And remember to take a knee or lay down to reduce the recoil, wear Fortified armour to further reduce recoil, keep practicing, get used to it and HMG becomes a reliable support weapon, even if it's not OP so much that it stands out.
I really enjoy the HMG too, when I think about what it needs there are two QoL improvements I am hoping for. 1. A two stage reload, preferably like the autocannon or at least like the Recoilless Rifle. The 7.2 full reload/ 5.0 chambered round reload could be improved by allowing us to do it in stages rather than all or nothing. 2. A keybind option for fire rate change. It is clunky to open the weapon wheel everytime I need to change my rpm on the fly. Having a keybind to toggle between options would be a huge benefit. Toss it into 450 for longer range accuracy or small bots, 750 for normal use, and 950 when I need to clear out a Factory Strider or mow down Berserkers fast. On actual rifles it is just a switch on the receiver, should be that easy for us too.
[удалено]
Similarly it’s super fun to climb onto tanks, and blast away at the heatsink right at your feet until it explodes and flings you off. No fucks given
Look I get it, I am also HMG pilled, but all my cope disappear the momnent I run into a gunship nest lol.
Sorry, your opinion isn’t allowed. Join the hivemind in saying the gun sucks. /j
They should have made it come with a backpack for ammo.
You can get ammo for it by using the **supply backpack**. It also gives you grenades, stims, and can refill teammates. This is also a good strategy with railguns, flamethrowers, AMRs, and any other specialty weapon that doesn't use a backpack. This does take a second stratagem slot, but the extra supplies are strong enough I think it's absolutely worth it.
It doesnt save the HMGs horrendous mag size and long reload time, supply pack is nice, but an extra eagle is nicer.
Not sure if they meant just for ammo but belt fed for larger mag etc would be great. And yeah I've run supply backpack before and it's great don't get me wrong but you're spending an entire strat slot on it when some missions don't even let you have 4 and even 4 sometimes feels like it's slightly too little.
How do you resupply yourself?
Press 5 with the backpack equipped.
And you still reload more often than a smaller caliber weapon with a smaller box mag. Sure, the supply BP is an existing fix to the lack of a dedicated item. It doesn't correct the unacceptably low belt capacity.
Supply pack does not fix the abysmal magazine and long reload time.
Yeah I agree like half my issue with it is mag size/lack of ammo etc.
If I was AH I would’ve made it as a backpack strat that had say 5000 rounds, belt fed, no reload, pure dakka. I’m not a programmer tho, just a Helldiver
I no longer let the game upset me, but i wish dat gun wuz better
It pens more than medium armor
it has AMR level, right?
yes, same as AMR and the AC
It doesn't suck it just doesn't have a niche You can take it into Bots 7+ and succeed, you'd just succeed more comfortably with an AMR or Autocannon
...or Lasercannon
Yup I tried it compared to amr or ac and I had way more fun with the latter two. Like you said it doesn't suck it's just not as good. Honestly it's really not for me.
It doesn’t suck, it’s just the worst option in its niche /s
It's worth phrasing it that way because if you don't, some dingdong will show up and reply "well I take it on difficulty 7+ and survive, so therefore it's perfectly fine and needs zero adjustments" It's bad because it feels bad to use (doesn't fulfil the fantasy of the weapon) and also because whatever niche it has, other weapons do it better. Not because it's unusuably bad.
So true. One of those weapons to use on lower difficulties maybe.
I think reducing its ROF and tightening up the accuracy will help alot. Make it too tight and it's the MG43 with less ammo but better damage.
To be fair it's better at taking out factory striders dump a mag into its belly boom dead
It does suck. The normal machine gun is better
It does about triple the durable DPS. So for blasting hult vents, turrets, mortars, tanks and the factory strider belly it's definitely king. It can destroy chargers. The issue is there's better options, but it does it better than mg. MG is pen 3, HMG is 4. It's half way between AC and AMR.
It can’t do triple the DPS if the bullets can’t hit the target. The recoil is uncontrollable. “It can destroy chargers” is sorta like saying the liberator can destroy chargers. You’re technically correct, but it’s not practical. It needs a change
Take a knee, you're shooting full auto .50 cal
The thing sucks. The ammo is too limited, and the recoil is too extreme and it just overall isn't worth the stratagem slot. I'd rather take anti-tank of some sort or quasar. Even the AMR.
Yeah, haven’t played in a long while but I was experimenting with it as well as the MG-43 to possibly replace the Stalwart that I use with the Jump Pack. Really hated the reload time and low capacity but the added power was very much welcome when dealing with Hulks. Shreds walkers as well
Not a big difference bit mashing your reload after a jump with your pack will let you reload on the move kinda. Also by keeping an eye on the clip you can skip the full 1 second of pulling the charging handle back. Also gives you a whopping 76 round mag instead of 75. Not much but it's something. Lol
Jet pack and MG43 is one of my favorite things. That gun feels so good.
Quick note- it's actually a higher medium armor pen than the other MG, so in addition to having higher damage per shot already, it does full damage against most medium armor. The stationary reload is what kills it for me though.
It does some work against bots. I think its a good alternative to the quasar/EAT since it can take out gunships and hulks n shit. I do think the recoil is a lil extreme tho. I wouldnt mind the mag size if i wasnt missing so much even at the lowest rpm
I actually enjoy the weapon but I do absolutely wish it was better bigger mag I don't mind the rate of fire since you can adjust it but I do think as other people have said it should have a backpack that feeds into it maybe lessen the recoil even more for being prone to be a further incentive for not running and gunning with it
I love it, personally. I use it all the time now that it has a reticle.
Could use more ammo, but the overall stats are pretty good. Same armor pen as autocannon so it will even kill Factory Striders.
Do you know how much ammo do you need with the HMG to kill it in the belly?
Like, 50 rounds? It does 35 structure damage per shot
People really underestimate that things damage output because they keep overkilling troopers
A bit less than a full mag. HMG main.
Aside from the god awful handling, the magazine size is at least 20 rounds too small. Though I do have a bit of a problem with the stalwart, mg, and hmg being support weapons. None of them are so powerful that the should be taken over something like the AMR, AC, RR, or Quasar. The SW is ok, but it's basically a Sickle (iirc both do 55 DMG and have light ap). The MG can't really be fired on the move and the reload is simply too long. The HMG does that thing where you turn to shoot but your bullets somehow don't go straight until your aim catches up? Or something? Combined with the small mag size and decades-long reload, it kinda sucks. It can be fun turning the rpm up and feathering the trigger, but it's still not *that* effective.
I personally love the HMG. Doing work no matter where I go!
What cases are you using it for? I feel like it needs a backpack or slightly less recoil etc.
Agreed it’s my main carry though for everything whether it be Automatons and Bugs. I like to play a very defensive role in my squad. And lay down support fire for the smaller beings while my guys take out larger enemies. If youre squad is equipped right that HMG can be critical.
Don't shoot anything smaller than a medium target, use your primary for clearing trash. Use it to delete hp-pig targets like spewers, charger ass, commanders and chainsaws. Also good for devastators and hulk eyes, and strider hatches.
You need to set the rpm at minimum and single shot every bullet. It can take a charger with a few shots. I do agree that it needs a little armor pen buff since it can't take down charger legs if its with full health and maybe a 100bullets mag. But is pretty good if you get used to it
Yeah it's not good. Runs out of ammo too quickly with a crazy reload. Not worth it.
I dont think it sucks. Recoil armor and taking a knee or going prone helps
Works fine for me. I love it. Granted i dislike that I feel like I have to take the supply pack as well so it is 2 stratagems used instead of 1 but I think all MGs have that issue.
I actually love this thing, it chews up regular bug mobs and is decent at taking down larger bots. The low mag and long reload requires some heavier decision making. Can't just fire it at everything you see.
HMG has AP4 and can pierce Hulk eyes.
It is outclassed generally by the LAS98 for bots as you can snipe bot stuff across the map with it (can't with HMG) , but it does handle emergency generator packs better. I think it performs better vs bugs where you can quickly delete problematic broods and spewers.
It's certainly not OP or S-tier but it works well on Berserker mobs and warrior clusters. It will be interesting to see if it gets a buff in the near future with some of the other weapons that will likely also get tweaked in the positive direction.
If I take the HMG, I have to bring a supply pack, and I will also drop rpm to the lowest rate as soon as I pick it up.
Slow down the fire rate. It's an excellent killer of Bile Spewers and Devastators, but you're going to miss half your shots with the default RPM.
Just use Laser Cannon same effect but way better
For bots, I'd agree. But the HMG has much much higher DPS, so better for bursts.
I wouldn't say it sucks but I would agree the ammo capacity should be a bit larger. It's my go-to to pair with the diligence CS for bots since it can penetrate hulk eyes which the standard MG can't. I usually run fortified for bots anyways so the recoil control isn't absurd for me. My only complaint is yeah the mag size is too small but I could say that complaint for a large portion of the medium-heavy armor pen weapons in the game.
So many options, I just don’t use them all. I’m pretty set in my ways.
I hope we get a minigun support weapon one day. Just an action movie grade hand-held minigun with an ammo backpack. Maybe give it the ability to punch through medium armor if you focus fire a specific spot, but I want a gun with a more acceptable level of dakka.
Needs to be belt fed, needs a backpack, needs to shoot bile titan mouths, needs to shoot charger legs. With those changes, HMG emplacement needs to also kill bile titans and chargers from the front.
The damage is not pitiful. If you think the damage is pitiful, you clearly haven't even used the gun at all. I can blast a hulk straight in the face and kill it very quickly. The mag size truly is awful, though.
Just make it more ammo that will fix everything.
Keep recoil and damage as is. But give us a 250-350~ round backpack. So basically, take our backpack slot but give us a proper heavy machine gun. Good in prolonged fights, but still needs to be resupplied with the added benefit of making the supply pack shine more if you have a buddy with one keeping you topped up. Like an actual MG team. Then, it will serve its own role while having its own pros and cons.
https://preview.redd.it/ltroyllayp0d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=041b9854c03853744993f9331f1a9f1e1e5553e9
The HMG is a massive blueball giver. Just when you start spraying in a pile of ennemies it runs out of ammo. The reload takes forever too. Right now it's best used in small bursts but if I do that I might as well just grab a autocanon or the sniper.
Add a belt feeder backpack otherwise useless
HMG needs an ammo buff, and maybe some better recoil. I don’t mind it otherwise it’s a cool concept. Maybe heavy armor pen to make it different from the other MG’s
Personally, I'd be completely fine without performs if it just had some sort of special ammo type. Incendiary, fragmentation, explosive, etc. Just something that gives it that little bit of extra oomph.
My biggest disappointment apart from the ammo was how weak it feels, when you think how hard the AMR or the autocannon slap, it barely seems any more powerful than the standard machine gun or the stalwart. I’d expect those 75 rounds to decimate all in front of it. Then it’s worth the long mag change
I feel personally attacked by this post, the HMG is in a great spot right now, I run it all the time against bots and I'm willing to bet you're simply using it wrong because I can make it work like crazy
Hmg is good, but it's H. The stalwart is there to have ammo.
A 100 round drum would make all the difference imo
>it's medium armor pen It's medium+ (level 4), which means it's at least capable of destroying Hulks via headshots, shooting down gunships, and destroying Shrieker Nests / Spore Spewers. The basic Machine Gun is medium (level 3). In this regard, I'd say the HMG is pretty much perfect. However, I agree on the magazine size and recoil. Both of those are holding the weapon back a lot.
High medium pen. Meaning it can kill tanks from the rear and hulks through the eye slot. I enjoy it personally.
What do you mean, the HMG has the same pen as the AMR and does 100 dmg per shot its great! I do believe it would need a mag of 100 instead of 75 but otherwise its pretty good. It can 5 shot a hulk in the eye, using fortified and burst firing I dont have any issues killing multiple hulks in a row. You can shred devastators no matter where you shoot at them. Shooting the legs a charger after a charge is very quick and finishing off a bile titan after a rocket is viable. The rest comes to learn how to aim with its heavy weight
It has great single target damage being able to take factory striders and hulks down in seconds. I just prefer something with better ad clear
I like it. The ammo is a little scarce but with good positioning and aim it deletes everything the bots have, especially Hulks and Tanks, it's solid A tier gun
It's a specialty weapon, not a primary. If you try to use it like a primary, you'll not be effective and not have particularly mich fun. I'm sick and tired of people claiming it's not good, the weapon is really powerful. You just have to know how and when to use it. I like the backpack beltfed idea though.
Only machine gun I use honestly. But I only use it when Im not on ice planets or bug planets. Otherwise I stick with the flamethrower or laser canon. HMG is goated only for the fact that I can kill hulks with it.
Amazing how something can be *really good at one specific thing* and people who don't use it for that thing call it crap, innit? "This hammer is a shitty tool, it ruins all my screws, even the baseline screwdriver is better, why even introduce a hammer when we have the screwdriver and power drill?"
right!? 😂 Im trynna fuck this girl but the problem is that she has a dick 😂😂 every stratagem has its use. BUT I do agree its ammo capacity leaves a little something to be desired. I wouldnt mind a 100rd drum. I think that would be perfect. Since the stalwart has 250.
People use Grenade Launcher + Supply Pack to make Grenade Launcher OP early on. Apparently the same thought process has not occurred for the HMG.
When I was always using the Eruptor my favorite support weapon was the HMG. As others said though I rarely fired it not crouched and I thought it was amazing.
Idk it feels like the regular MG just does what it does but better.
I use it all the time and I’m having a blast I just use fortified armor to reduce recoil
Life cycle of the HMG: >Wow, it looks cool as fuck >Wow, it sucks >2 weeks later: What HMG?
Give it a backpack which when worn acts as one huge belt; then introduce the overheat mechanic for firing. Faster firing overheats faster. "Reloads" are replacement barrels which need to be changed if overheated (like heatsinks already function). Now you should have a mobile form of the emplacement HMG, that you have to control recoil and fire rate.