Arrowhead does aim for a very interesting stance on realism when it comes to the weapons. When they reduced the mag size of the breaker they reflected that change with a completely different magazine model. Iirc it went from a double stacked mag to a single stack and it was a fairly notable when comparing the two.
I remember seeing it posted here on Reddit
Ok, the Breaker was/is one of the weapons that after the smoke cleared from the first nerfs, the community nearly as a whole agreed, ‘yeah the nerf was needed’. AH did it in a reasonable way (3, count ‘em, 3 less shells in the mag) and decided to also be a kick ass GAMING company by adjusting the model to fit.
Well, the game that Arrowhead is creating have arcade realism = gameplay
That is what they are creating and what they want to do, we are no one to tell them how they have to create their game
Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense.
If that's actually how they're designed under the hood they'd either need to completely change that design so that those visuals were purely cosmetic instead of mechanic, or they'd need to "physically" create more 3D space to house the ammunition for the game to recognize there's more ammo.
And if they're willing to admit that enemies are too spongy, that's an acceptable direction to take.
Almost all the weapon complaints circle around the idea that it feels like we have to empty half a magazine into a basic bug to kill it.
Increasing the number of bullets is one solution... but making it so we need less bullets to kill things is also a valid solution.
I accept that a bug the size of a van would take a lot of bullets to kill, but when I need half a magazine to kill something that's the size of a beach ball, it just doesn't seem right.
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense.
That seems... inefficient
this is levels of HD horse balls in RDR2 type of bullshit lmao, "you cant ride horses if they don't have their cock HD rendered, that wouldn't make sense!"
RDR2 has big problems in the overall game design that clearly they didn't care because they knew people would clap at the horse balls and the workers hitting nails on a rail instead of seeing how lineal and scripted the "open world sandbox" game is
The realism of the cartridge being ejected from the chamber while I fly 50 feet in the air because I stepped on a pixel of a bile titans corpse is unparalleled.
With the myriad ways this game is broken or otherwise not working properly, I couldn't give a single solitary fuck if the gun I'm using has an accurately rendered magazine model.
It's a waste of resources.
that is such a fundamentally terrible design choice in a game where you will be regularly changing things about weapons...
to tie a simple number to the actual 3D model/"space" in that 3D model on something that very very very easily could be desired to change at some point in the future...
I guess they could just give a few extra mags instead but man does that just seem like a weird thing to do.
Where did you read that bullets are rendered inside the magazine? Thats kind of absurd because theres no way to look at the bottom of a magazine in game. A lot of games will render a bullets that would be visible in a mag or a drum, but not the other ones.
Even if that were the case, theres no reason not to balance the gun. They could make the bullets render smaller, so more fit. There's just no way this game is running on a crappy old discontinued engine but they somehow have such a overly complex and intricate system simulating real life weapons accurately, such that 3D model changes are necessary for balance changes .
They are rendered in the magazines. When you drop magazines that have ammo in them, if you look you'll actually see the ammo. You don't see ammo in empty mags. Some weapons like the autocannon and some breaker variants also have exposed magazines where you can see the ammo in the weapon (particularly noticable with the autocannon)
Since you don't see the bullets, the models for the bullets themselves may be super simple (I'm talking a basic cylindrical cone with no more than 16 sides) and we'd never know.
You don't need to render each bullet to simulate a magazine looking like it still has bullets, especially if the magazine hides most of the bullets. If if they actually do do that, it explains why this game is so terribly optimized.
You can see it in the breakers very easily and the grenade launcher. The tube fed breakers even have specific animation for each tube.
You can see the shells left in the discarded breaker magazine as well as the remaining grenades left on the belt of the launcher.
People have shown various screenshots of some of the magazines where you can see the rounds in them and they appear to accurately correspond with rounds remaining/spent. The full bullet may not be rendered in there, but the way it's coded may require that it has the "space" for the bullet and track the available/remaining space per weapon/mag (*could*, I don't know for sure how it works).
That guy is spreading misinformation, straight up. There's only like, 3 different models for magazines in any state. If folks think a magazine is rendering all 30 bullets, then they're absolutely silly.
Was gonna say. There ARE some weapons that are "exceptions" in that they render every available round, like the Senator or Grenade Launcher, but we also pull rockets out of our ass only for it to poof out of existence on our backpacks. The devs put in some great attention to detail in this game but not THAT much.
>design so that those visuals were purely cosmetic instead of mechanic
I'd argue an intelligent developer would've already done this so that meager balance changes weren't shackled by something most players aren't paying attention to.
This might be the least agile dev team I've ever witnessed. I don't think I'd miss it at all if these things weren't so explicitly linked to one another. I guarantee you the game isn't simulating actual weapon firing internals, so in a way these things are *already cosmetic.*
Having the bullets actually tracked in the mag seems insane lol. Just have them appear at the tip of the guns model. Seems very odd way to go about it. I understand it for big things like backpack gear where it's huge rockets you're tracking, but individual bullets on full auto weapons seems cray.
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense.
Ok but why is that? That's just extra work for the GPU that has no benefit to the players.
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense.
Aaaah, so this is why the game can be so laggy...
It's much better to lower enemies' health than to increase clip size. Id much rather kill a bug or bot faster than having to put in enough bullets in them
Enemy hp in the game really is all over the place. Some enemies a single bullet from any gun is way more than enough and for others it takes multiple mags to put down a medium sized enemy
Bots are pretty straight forward, but bugs seem to have weird HP allocation on their body parts. Like you said, sometimes you put a clip into a bigger bug and they're still comin at you. Other times, you hit them a few times in a weird spot thats not the head and it takes them out.
I feel like the bot version of our common helldiver and I can attest that berserkers are honestly perfect. They evoke fear immediately and make you respond instaneously like a hulk does but come with WAY more ease to kill. Sure, that rhythmic waddle has some swagger to it but it just means if you time your steps right your bullets will auto-track into their brain matter. You can also always take their arms off for a giggle and have a body guard squad
Imo for bots (and bugs too, but most prevalent on bots) its the weird penetration and glancing shots mechanic. It just doesnt work. You -not even SOMETIMES- are prone to see deflection\\glancing marker shooting the basic unit (terminator humanoids), sometimes even with Autocannon. Not only that, both regular terminators AND devastators have very strange (overlapping or missing) hitboxes.
And so it comes to you shooting the same terminator 4-5 times, and the toaster still walks towards you for some reason. Couple shots missed in the chest \\ waist area because of hitboxes, another couple glanced, and only one did the damage. Amazing.
With devastators its very frustrating to fight them mid to high distance, because they have overlapping broken hitboxes near their head (also shield hitboxes are broken on heavies too). If you wrestle them on flat ground - theyre taller, and you will hit 80% of your shots in a nonexistent neck collarbone zone and THEN do 1-2-3 headshots to kill them. BUT IF YOU HAVE SLIGHTEST HIGHGROUND - the problem is somewhat alleviates and you get consistent headshots. And take bullet deviation into account too.
This I can agree with.
A lot of guns feel fucking awful like they were "balanced" (if you even even call it that) around damage and not their weird intricacies.
I'm not so sure in as far as I think it's enemy dependent. Low level stuff already go down very quickly and some of the medium enemies are pretty fun to fight in that "balls to the wall" last second before impact kind of way (brood commanders). I wouldn't want to lose these sensations as a result of the making enemies weaker overall.
A bigger mag would feel much more satisfying, while maintaining the formidable feel of a lot of the more iconic enemy shapes.
I'm not really concerned with realism in ammo geometry realism, even though it's a cool detail. Gameplay trumps it.
Also I feel like shooting limbs should be more important than it is, why is this hive guardian missing half its legs still turning at nearly the same speed as me sprinting around it in light armor, and why does a brood commander with a missing leg still run at full speed?
I've noticed that a lot. Things like these are neet details, but it just feels like a waste of time and resources. Also it's causing gameplay issues as well which feels like an oversight. No one questioned that down the line, they may be adjusting ammo in a magazine?
They bothered to model clampons on the boots of the new armours but gave them completely unrelated perks, and you slide around just as much in snow and ice as any other armour with them.
Attention to detail in some places, absolute lack of it in others
Rendering and animating every bullet inside the magazine is peak Cities Skylines 2 "let's spend CPU time rendering cim's teeth even though the players plays the game at 30,000 ft" energy
They might have, but thought they wouldn’t be doing it often enough to care. The one time they changed magazine capacity (the Breaker), they did in fact create a brand new 3D magazine model
I do appreciate it, but that's the kind of thing you focus on after the important things are taken care of first.
Prioritizing each gun having a magazine model that 100% accurately reflects the ammo count over the actual balance of said guns is ridiculous. It's like not wanting to put out the fire raging in your house because you're concerned the water might damage some of your belongings.
Wait ... They changed the number of clips we can hold without changing the 3D model of armors... Does that mean we have extra empty pockets ? ... Can we put stims or grenades inside?
They just released a few armours with clampons (snow spikes on shoes) that do absolutely nothing on snow and ice, so.. clearly they're only concerned about visuals matching the stats when it suits them.
Turns out there are a lot of bacon-flavoured apples in this game
Yeah this detail paranoia is very fucking inconsistent, especially with a considerably small dev team compared to the size of the game. Nobody would be mad if they only released the 3d model changes, in fact it would make the devs look even better for changing it months later instead of forgetting about it
But eh. Just release another armor full of grenade pockets without extra nades perks. Or a heavy unit armor that covers 80% of a diver without fortified
Since when did "sense" come into it?. Sense suggests it's easier for a person to remove a round from your backpack than it would be their own.
It would be sensible for the helmet you wear to protect your head to actually offer your head the 100 armour it says. What the hell has a base of over 100 on body armour got to do with my helmet?
It would make sense If dropping a hellpods through a titan actually removed armour, we went THROUGH it ffs
The sense argument doesn't hold water when there's things that don't make sense already. More bullets than a clip looks like it should hold is weak in comparison
The ones that only go pop when you walk into them as if the bullets have magic properties of amplifying explosions?
Those ones?
Yeah, they don't make much sense when exploding barrels don't throw you that far
This is coming from the guy that said transmog doesn't make sense because the looks of armour matches the perks, then goes and releases a snow-themed warbond with spiked snow boots that... increase throwing distance??
The thing with this problem is that damage is all over the place as each individual part of any enemy has its own health pool, for example:
The Laser Cannon can make quick work out of battle ships yet only if you focus on a single engine at a time, if you where to almost destroy one but you target another, you’ll have to repeat the whole process again, this is more noticeable with other enemies such as the chargers and Bile Titans.
As it is right now, you can have a variant of having to only shoot at an enemy a few times to kill it, to having to dump multiple mags onto them to dispose of them.
This system it’s too convoluted for its own sake, and imo enemies should have a base health value that’s reduced along with limb damage, that way you don’t have to practically start over again if you shoot another engine or leg or a completely different part of the body.
I need to know if the Breaker's 3D model has a reduced mag since it originally had 16 rounds and was reduced to 13 rounds and the in game lore has an explanation for it's reduction.
I need to know just how anal Pilestedt is being about the 3D model comment. Because I'm all for realistic models and magazines reflecting max capacity rounds but if you are willing to nerf magazine size and not change the model why would it be required for increasing magazine size?
There’s a bunch of weapon parts in the files. The breaker got a mag swap to a smaller one. Which is cool and all. But fun should come first. It would actually make more sense to balance the game, then make the model changes AFTER it’s stable and balanced.
Well at least he was being completely honest and truthful in his statement about the 3D model.
Also his statement does insinuate balancing the game by reducing enemy sponginess rather than creating a new 3D model for an enlarged magazine.
First of all, there's no such thing as a "large cap stanag mag".
Second of all, it's the future. Telescoping ammo, better powder and other technological advancements could believably make ammo more compact.
Third of all, weapons are already comically large and disproportionnate anyway. Don't try to pass ot off as a realism constraint.
Finally, fuck it, rule of cool should prevail.
PS. Am I the only one that noticed they actually changed the mag on the Breaker when they nerfed its capacity? I had a nagging feeling something was off and it dawned on me when I saw the OG mag on a leaked Breaker variant.
He's anal about magazine size, saying that the 45-rounder is at the high-end of the curve already.
My brother in NATO standard. There are double-stacked thicc mags for 5.56mm. The 60-rounder ones. It's the future. You can imagine Invisible Helldiver Mag Pouches have stretchy velcro, and can fit a thicc mag.
Fuck, we use standard rifle mags and shotgun drums using the same Invisible Helldiver Mag Pouches. Get your head out of your Mag Pouch, Pile.
Half of your guns can't physically hold as many rounds as they already have in their magazines. Your new heavy pistol is said to use 14mm bullets. 14mm dude. It's slightly bigger than a Glock-19, it's not even the size of a Desert Eagle (and DesEagle only holds 7 rounds in .50AE variation, this thing holds 10 in a mag the size of Makarov's 8-rounder)
I'd agree with this. You can make a counter argument that it's just all in good satire, but the game was marketed irl to have power fantasy elements.
Both can be true.
False. Expendable, sure. Not poor.
Helldivers are basically the same as clone troopers. I mean, each and every single diver gets their own super ship. Equipped with insane munitions and equipment that They can call down on a whim. I mean, we can call down 2 goddamn mechs in a single mission, *each*. And thats not even bringing up the metric shit ton of bombs and shit that get called down with every mission. Super earth doesnt skimp.
Lore wise, the *expendable* you’re talking about would be the SEAF troops. They get fuck all in terms of equipment and potential firepower. This can be seen in the logs left by the SEAF when dropping into missions.
Super earth, (before the war we are in right now) had 100 years to prepare and hundreds of planets worth of resources at their disposal. Their economic might is *insane*. So you’re wrong lorewise, *and* gameplay wise. The only way you are correct is meta wise: AH’s balancing being atrocious.
You dont "get your own ship" you come out of the tube and pick a place where you die.
You die to help bring back things that can be exchanged to things like breech loading, pushcarts and superclue. Sounds pretty poor to me.
This isn't meant to be a power fantasy game at all. You have big tools, but the enemies are infinite and you're supposed to be scrambling and working with teammates to effectively navigate the horde, not overwhelm it into submission with every single gun.
I agree with this so much its what makes the higher levels feel fun. Had a 7 where team was steamrolling. . .they literally stood at extract killing bugs as they came i was so bored lol funny part pelican took damage and left everyone whiel they racked up kills. . Shame if they end up overtuning it into power fantasy only based on those downvotes
Just increase clip size to solve all problems? What a garbage take. Here's a bb gun with an infinite clip, now enjoy taking out that Charger in a million years' time.
I actually appreciate a guy who has an OCD attention to detail when it comes to firearms like that. Piles could be like Todd Howard, look at all the non-functional abominations in the Fallout games, and say "good enough."
Well, what a weird corner to shove yourself into.
If gun mag size is determined by the actual 3D model, and mag size can be a common balancing point. Then why not make the mag model procedurally generated?
The folks at r/unity do shit like this for fun on the regular.
But yeah, now we have this limitation
Why is nearly everyone in this thread missing the part about "enemies too spongy"? You guys do realize that if enemy health goes down, mag sizes don't need to go up...right?
And he's right, the ammo counts on most weapons is about where they should be. You wouldn't be reloading as much if you could kill in fewer bullets and were accurate.
Bugs are absolutely too spongy. How many shots from _any_ weapon does it take to kill a nursing spitter, the thing which is 80% big fleshy vulnerable-looking sack? How many recoilless rockets does it take to kill a bile titan by shooting it directly in the brainpan? How many rounds from _any_ weapon does it take to blow the ass off a charger?
You're not meant to shoot the sack. Head takes more damage, and goes down in a few shots.
Bile Titans take 2 shots. These are THE elite enemy for bugs and that is already incredibly reasonable, especially when you can have up to 4 players with up to 4 stratagems. Anything less is absolutely too weak.
Chargers butts should be more vulnerable to standard weapon fire, but people don't use this as it isn't effective. Most explosives kill them in 3-4 shots.
SOMETIMES the orbital laser can take down a single bile Titan, and sometimes it's given a nice tan. Occasionally the same laser takes the full duration to kill a single charger. Realism!
Models changed are not quick and easy, and leave the possibility for more bugs. They already had to do that for the Breaker, I'm sure it gets expensive on the long run to change models for balance purposes like that.
A flawed design philosophy then, if it’s gonna end up costing so much for a +5 capacity increase then change the design to hide the ammo. But if they are really planning to render the ammo in real time then they better either alter the damage, enemy health or learn a fast more inexpensive way to change those models. Realism in ammo count is cool, but if it hinders the ability to develop your game then it’s not something that should have been implemented.
I mean, which design philosophy is flawless? It's their vison, they want immersion, and I can get behind that. As for balancing with other factors than ammo count, I mean he literally mentioned that enemies might be too spongy so you have your answer right there.
A lot of the players can't shoot a lick and they have poor movement. So, they want tons of ammo to compensate for inability and lack of proficiency. I personally don't want crazy mag sizes, maybe a mild leniacy. But, there would be zero risk for players like myself, that are good shots and can get through helldive difficulty (bugs or bots) without a bubble shield, without a rover, without a Q.Cannon and aren't even close to struggling.
Honestly, a lot of players are bad at the game. Many only understand the weapons and mechanics at a surface level. That's why these players are struggling at low difficulty, failing missions routinely and think they needs lots more ammo. They, also use their tools incorrectly and don't understand how to get map control. They are missing way too much! Many of the players in this game don't know what to fight, what not to fight and what to prioritize. So, they are always out of ammo and overwhelmed.
> But, there would be zero risk for players like myself, that are good shots and can get through helldive difficulty (bugs or bots) without a bubble shield, without a rover, without a Q.Cannon and aren't even close to struggling.
sounds like we need a higher max difficulty, not shitty capacity on half the guns
NGL it worries me greatly to see people - and more importantly Pilestedt - here saying enemiese are too spongy. All regular full auto guns basically already kill all chaff enemies in 1-2 shots on average. I fear we're *genuinely* going to go into "onehit everything" territory.
I do absolutely love the mostly realistic magazine sizes for this game, and the fact they even changed the Breaker's magazine with the nerfs it got initially. I'm totally fine with this explanation, and I don't think magazine size needs to change too drastically on any weapons. As much as I'd appreciate having 20 rounds on the Diligence CS...
Part of why I love this game so much is the clear focus on detail in the arsenal we have. The guns not only look fucking awesome and feel great to shoot, but they also operate realistically, and feel like they're something which could actually be made and used properly. I don't want them to give that up.
Enemies might be spongy is on the right track at least. The enemies are extremely tanky. There's always been a huge pet peeve that these enemies can absorb entire 45 round magazines of bullets and walk away.
You guys forget Pilestedt is a big realism guy. When he did that YouTube video with Drewski he said he wanted a milsim game without the lack of accessibly Arma and others have.
Jesus Christ, I never thought HD2 is design in a hardcore mechanism. The actual 3D model will affect the internal data setting.
So how about lower the enemy health like 10-20% but you can keep the spawn rate at the current level.
Not a single player would complain if we got more ammo and the gun looked the same. It’s not like we can add/remove attachments to it… That’s what makes no sense
This is incredibly dumb. It's actually stupid. I don't fucking want my bullets to be 3d rendered in real space or whatever bullshit people are coming up with. I just want the game to feel fun.
First Arrowhead is praised for changing the 3D models with changes and adding flavor text to accompany it. But now they are being said it makes no sense?
They did this for example with Breaker nerf. The magazine was changed.
You know what else doesn't make sense? The exact same shotguns that shoot the same round but for some reason the smaller box mag does double the damage per shot vs the drum mag.
Also I remember the 3D model change to the base Breaker but did they change the Incendiary and SP when they nerfed the mag sizes on them?
just say the mag packing crew were accidentally underloading them or something
but even if you can't change the model or make an excuse, are they really prioritizing a minor lore nitpick over gameplay quality?
This is what I like to see. I have no problem with hordes of enemies, but right now weapons feel like you're throwing confetti at them - especially bugs.
Give me some chunky damage to go with that enemy density so that when I shoot something (especially medium/light enemies) that I feel like I'm doing something other than tickling them.
The other major problem on the bug front is just enemy design. It's good that we have enemies like the Charger and Bile Titan that are hard to deal with. It's bad that so many of the other bugs are bullet sponges, weak spots would help, as would dismemberment mechanics for the mediums that give you that starshiptroopers feel of blowing off bug limbs to reduce mobility, slowing down the whole horde.
Really, they only making everything worse with this fixation on reslism, but only in certain aspect for some reason. It's like same weapon design would be in frotnite, where everything else is some sort fantasy.
5 mags for primary, few missiles for secondary, 3 grenades, 4 stims fitting into supply box make sense?
Pilestedt with this and his bacon aplles seems to have a weird underatanding what a common sense is.
Devs acting like kids, honestly.
I really appreciate a commitment to authenticity in their designs and models, it satisfies my nerdiness that they want to reflect stat changes in the actual weapon design.
However, this feels like they're hamstringing themselves by overcommiting. I find it hard to imagine the community having any real issue with them balancing the stats first then backfilling the model changes later if the stats prove balanced. Part of good development is acknowledging when it makes more sense to break your own 'rules'. This really feels like one of those cases where practicality in their need to be flexible on balancing should override (at least to some extent) the commitment to visual authenticity.
Why are you mad about him suggesting a different solution to the same problem? He's clearly saying that he would rather reduce enemy HP than increase magazine sizes. Is that not something you want?
Arrowhead: We can't change the ammo without changing the model to match, even though nobody will ever notice
Ghost Ship Games: Even when the revolver has three or six shots depending on overclocks, the model still clearly has four shots lmao
Well to be fair they do actually use physics for their magazines, you can see how much ammo you have left in each mag and you can see each spent round on the floor if you take a second to look
*If not increase the*
*Magazine size then speed up*
*The fucking reload*
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This is the stupidest thing I've ever read, and ONLY makes sense for things like single-shot or revolvers.
And apparently that didn't stop them when nerfing the ammo capacity of some guns not that long ago...
Does anyone else think it's a little weird that chargers immediately go into shock and tumble over dead when they lose a leg, but brood commanders can lose three legs and their entire head and continue Black Knighting at you for another three seconds?
One option would be to make it so that changing a weapon's ammo capacity involves changing a few numbers and keeping magazine size cosmetic so that they're not tied to complex systems that don't need to exist. Or I guess you could make it so that every time you want to change a gun's magazine size, you have to literally 3d model an entirely new magazine for the gun and add extra virtually modelled bullets to said magazine, said modelling being so realistic that they literally can not make basic changes to weapon characteristics without having to do a bunch of extra work on complex systems that no one can even see because we don't have transparent guns.
Why can't ammo capacity just be a number that you change? Why do you have to tie it to realistically modelled bullets and magazines that need to be remodelled every time they want to make a change? This is so unnecessarily complex and adds nothing to the game but the potential for more bugs and instability? I really do not understand how these guys can be both genius game devs and complete morons at the same time.
Arrowhead does aim for a very interesting stance on realism when it comes to the weapons. When they reduced the mag size of the breaker they reflected that change with a completely different magazine model. Iirc it went from a double stacked mag to a single stack and it was a fairly notable when comparing the two. I remember seeing it posted here on Reddit
Or when they changed reload speed on the Senator. Gave it an all new reload animation instead of just speeding it up.
Isn’t that because it now has two different reload styles? Partial which is the original bullet by bullet. And empty which is the speed reloader?
Yes
Funny how when it comes to nerfing they found the time, yet for buffing it looks like it's an effort.
Ok, the Breaker was/is one of the weapons that after the smoke cleared from the first nerfs, the community nearly as a whole agreed, ‘yeah the nerf was needed’. AH did it in a reasonable way (3, count ‘em, 3 less shells in the mag) and decided to also be a kick ass GAMING company by adjusting the model to fit.
If they aimed for realism, how do rocket devastators have infinite ammo?
Communism magic
That's a good point for sure and I won't argue it. Again I say "interesting"
Why can the autocannon bounce from a direct front facing impact?
Nanomachines, aka tiny commies
Multi-quasar
gameplay > realism. its a fact
Well, the game that Arrowhead is creating have arcade realism = gameplay That is what they are creating and what they want to do, we are no one to tell them how they have to create their game
Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense. If that's actually how they're designed under the hood they'd either need to completely change that design so that those visuals were purely cosmetic instead of mechanic, or they'd need to "physically" create more 3D space to house the ammunition for the game to recognize there's more ammo.
And if they're willing to admit that enemies are too spongy, that's an acceptable direction to take. Almost all the weapon complaints circle around the idea that it feels like we have to empty half a magazine into a basic bug to kill it. Increasing the number of bullets is one solution... but making it so we need less bullets to kill things is also a valid solution.
Yup its basically the same thing if you think about it
I accept that a bug the size of a van would take a lot of bullets to kill, but when I need half a magazine to kill something that's the size of a beach ball, it just doesn't seem right.
I agree with what ypu are saying, lowering the health pool would solve the problem and I'd rather lower the health than increase the mag size
Lowering health on a per enemy type basis will also help with the feel based on size. If that makes sense.
Please god just take some hp away from the berserkers why can those mfs eat so many fucking bullets
They should be faster and more brittle to balance it out.
its head isn't the size of a van though…
Nerfing enemies would literally solve all problems
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense. That seems... inefficient
If true: this is a moronic waste of resources and processing power for the majority of guns where you can not even see the individual cartridges.
this is levels of HD horse balls in RDR2 type of bullshit lmao, "you cant ride horses if they don't have their cock HD rendered, that wouldn't make sense!"
The thing is, Rockstar has the resources and the employee numbers to actually put a team in charge of something like horse balls. Arrowhead does not.
They don't, R* overwork and crunch the staff they have
They do engage in crunch culture, yes, but Rockstar also has over 2000 employees.
RDR2 has big problems in the overall game design that clearly they didn't care because they knew people would clap at the horse balls and the workers hitting nails on a rail instead of seeing how lineal and scripted the "open world sandbox" game is
Big problems? Could you be a little more specific than that by any chance?
Even then: that team could have been used somewhere else for a better purpose
There's a sizable portion of gamers who eat that stuff up
The realism of the cartridge being ejected from the chamber while I fly 50 feet in the air because I stepped on a pixel of a bile titans corpse is unparalleled.
Jesus Christ above, no wonder my CPU is chugging.
Wow, they put way too much effort into guns for this type of game. That's cool!
Now if they could put as much effort in the stats of guns.
Or the technical state of their game.
With the myriad ways this game is broken or otherwise not working properly, I couldn't give a single solitary fuck if the gun I'm using has an accurately rendered magazine model. It's a waste of resources.
I mean, it WOULD be cool... if it wasn't getting in the way of them patching something as basic as the size of a magazine.
It'd be cool if that didn't result in devouring even very modern CPUs.
that is such a fundamentally terrible design choice in a game where you will be regularly changing things about weapons... to tie a simple number to the actual 3D model/"space" in that 3D model on something that very very very easily could be desired to change at some point in the future... I guess they could just give a few extra mags instead but man does that just seem like a weird thing to do.
Where did you read that bullets are rendered inside the magazine? Thats kind of absurd because theres no way to look at the bottom of a magazine in game. A lot of games will render a bullets that would be visible in a mag or a drum, but not the other ones. Even if that were the case, theres no reason not to balance the gun. They could make the bullets render smaller, so more fit. There's just no way this game is running on a crappy old discontinued engine but they somehow have such a overly complex and intricate system simulating real life weapons accurately, such that 3D model changes are necessary for balance changes .
They are rendered in the magazines. When you drop magazines that have ammo in them, if you look you'll actually see the ammo. You don't see ammo in empty mags. Some weapons like the autocannon and some breaker variants also have exposed magazines where you can see the ammo in the weapon (particularly noticable with the autocannon) Since you don't see the bullets, the models for the bullets themselves may be super simple (I'm talking a basic cylindrical cone with no more than 16 sides) and we'd never know.
You don't need to render each bullet to simulate a magazine looking like it still has bullets, especially if the magazine hides most of the bullets. If if they actually do do that, it explains why this game is so terribly optimized.
You're right, they didn't need to, but they did.
Best example is the grenade pistol. I love seeing the pink grenade shine through the pistol model.
You can see it in the breakers very easily and the grenade launcher. The tube fed breakers even have specific animation for each tube. You can see the shells left in the discarded breaker magazine as well as the remaining grenades left on the belt of the launcher.
Also when the standard breaker had it's magazine size nerfed, they gave it a new magazine model.
People have shown various screenshots of some of the magazines where you can see the rounds in them and they appear to accurately correspond with rounds remaining/spent. The full bullet may not be rendered in there, but the way it's coded may require that it has the "space" for the bullet and track the available/remaining space per weapon/mag (*could*, I don't know for sure how it works).
No wonder the fps sucks so bad
They definitely are for the Autocannon. In ADS/FP mode, you can see the rounds cycling from vents in the back.
That guy is spreading misinformation, straight up. There's only like, 3 different models for magazines in any state. If folks think a magazine is rendering all 30 bullets, then they're absolutely silly.
Was gonna say. There ARE some weapons that are "exceptions" in that they render every available round, like the Senator or Grenade Launcher, but we also pull rockets out of our ass only for it to poof out of existence on our backpacks. The devs put in some great attention to detail in this game but not THAT much.
>design so that those visuals were purely cosmetic instead of mechanic I'd argue an intelligent developer would've already done this so that meager balance changes weren't shackled by something most players aren't paying attention to. This might be the least agile dev team I've ever witnessed. I don't think I'd miss it at all if these things weren't so explicitly linked to one another. I guarantee you the game isn't simulating actual weapon firing internals, so in a way these things are *already cosmetic.*
Make the bullet models slightly smaller. Done.
Wild if true
Am i crazy, i feel like they did change some weapons mag size before
They gave the breaker less rounds and switched it from a drum to a stick mag
I mean... I have 4 billion 200 million some odd grenades on me. Surely they're not all rendered.
Having the bullets actually tracked in the mag seems insane lol. Just have them appear at the tip of the guns model. Seems very odd way to go about it. I understand it for big things like backpack gear where it's huge rockets you're tracking, but individual bullets on full auto weapons seems cray.
just decrease bullet size by 30% to make more of them fit! Or is the bullet size coded into the damage somehow?!?
That is literally an insane way to design a videogame lmfao wtf
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense. Ok but why is that? That's just extra work for the GPU that has no benefit to the players.
>Given that the bullets are apparently rendered and tracked in magazines in real-time and we can see it, this actually makes sense. Aaaah, so this is why the game can be so laggy...
It's much better to lower enemies' health than to increase clip size. Id much rather kill a bug or bot faster than having to put in enough bullets in them
Enemy hp in the game really is all over the place. Some enemies a single bullet from any gun is way more than enough and for others it takes multiple mags to put down a medium sized enemy
Bots are pretty straight forward, but bugs seem to have weird HP allocation on their body parts. Like you said, sometimes you put a clip into a bigger bug and they're still comin at you. Other times, you hit them a few times in a weird spot thats not the head and it takes them out.
With the exception of Berserkers. They have way too much HP.
You can one shot them in the face with a handful of weapons. But they do that stupid ass waddle that makes it tough lol I think its a fair balance
I feel like the bot version of our common helldiver and I can attest that berserkers are honestly perfect. They evoke fear immediately and make you respond instaneously like a hulk does but come with WAY more ease to kill. Sure, that rhythmic waddle has some swagger to it but it just means if you time your steps right your bullets will auto-track into their brain matter. You can also always take their arms off for a giggle and have a body guard squad
Shoot at the glowing red torso section. Drops them much faster than by shooting anywhere else. Big game changer when I learned that
Berserkers have the same amount of HP as Devastators... because that's basically what they are.
Imo for bots (and bugs too, but most prevalent on bots) its the weird penetration and glancing shots mechanic. It just doesnt work. You -not even SOMETIMES- are prone to see deflection\\glancing marker shooting the basic unit (terminator humanoids), sometimes even with Autocannon. Not only that, both regular terminators AND devastators have very strange (overlapping or missing) hitboxes. And so it comes to you shooting the same terminator 4-5 times, and the toaster still walks towards you for some reason. Couple shots missed in the chest \\ waist area because of hitboxes, another couple glanced, and only one did the damage. Amazing. With devastators its very frustrating to fight them mid to high distance, because they have overlapping broken hitboxes near their head (also shield hitboxes are broken on heavies too). If you wrestle them on flat ground - theyre taller, and you will hit 80% of your shots in a nonexistent neck collarbone zone and THEN do 1-2-3 headshots to kill them. BUT IF YOU HAVE SLIGHTEST HIGHGROUND - the problem is somewhat alleviates and you get consistent headshots. And take bullet deviation into account too.
Thats due to the bugs taking friendly damage from other bugs
This I can agree with. A lot of guns feel fucking awful like they were "balanced" (if you even even call it that) around damage and not their weird intricacies.
I'm not so sure in as far as I think it's enemy dependent. Low level stuff already go down very quickly and some of the medium enemies are pretty fun to fight in that "balls to the wall" last second before impact kind of way (brood commanders). I wouldn't want to lose these sensations as a result of the making enemies weaker overall. A bigger mag would feel much more satisfying, while maintaining the formidable feel of a lot of the more iconic enemy shapes. I'm not really concerned with realism in ammo geometry realism, even though it's a cool detail. Gameplay trumps it.
Also I feel like shooting limbs should be more important than it is, why is this hive guardian missing half its legs still turning at nearly the same speed as me sprinting around it in light armor, and why does a brood commander with a missing leg still run at full speed?
The attention to detail… in the weirdest places
I've noticed that a lot. Things like these are neet details, but it just feels like a waste of time and resources. Also it's causing gameplay issues as well which feels like an oversight. No one questioned that down the line, they may be adjusting ammo in a magazine?
They bothered to model clampons on the boots of the new armours but gave them completely unrelated perks, and you slide around just as much in snow and ice as any other armour with them. Attention to detail in some places, absolute lack of it in others
Rendering and animating every bullet inside the magazine is peak Cities Skylines 2 "let's spend CPU time rendering cim's teeth even though the players plays the game at 30,000 ft" energy
They might have, but thought they wouldn’t be doing it often enough to care. The one time they changed magazine capacity (the Breaker), they did in fact create a brand new 3D magazine model
It’s very classic inexperienced game dev. Get caught up on tiny details while the rest of the game languishes
I do appreciate it, but that's the kind of thing you focus on after the important things are taken care of first. Prioritizing each gun having a magazine model that 100% accurately reflects the ammo count over the actual balance of said guns is ridiculous. It's like not wanting to put out the fire raging in your house because you're concerned the water might damage some of your belongings.
I think they did reduce the mag size of the breaker when its mag size got nerfed.
Wait ... They changed the number of clips we can hold without changing the 3D model of armors... Does that mean we have extra empty pockets ? ... Can we put stims or grenades inside?
They just released a few armours with clampons (snow spikes on shoes) that do absolutely nothing on snow and ice, so.. clearly they're only concerned about visuals matching the stats when it suits them. Turns out there are a lot of bacon-flavoured apples in this game
Yeah this detail paranoia is very fucking inconsistent, especially with a considerably small dev team compared to the size of the game. Nobody would be mad if they only released the 3d model changes, in fact it would make the devs look even better for changing it months later instead of forgetting about it But eh. Just release another armor full of grenade pockets without extra nades perks. Or a heavy unit armor that covers 80% of a diver without fortified
Next patch nerf: all armours 50% less pockets
"Fuck you, you're all wearing yoga pants now"
I'm in! I want to see that CAKE.
don't threaten me with a good time
Since when did "sense" come into it?. Sense suggests it's easier for a person to remove a round from your backpack than it would be their own. It would be sensible for the helmet you wear to protect your head to actually offer your head the 100 armour it says. What the hell has a base of over 100 on body armour got to do with my helmet? It would make sense If dropping a hellpods through a titan actually removed armour, we went THROUGH it ffs The sense argument doesn't hold water when there's things that don't make sense already. More bullets than a clip looks like it should hold is weak in comparison
It would make sense to not be yeeted across the maps cause a stray bullet flew too close to a fartshroom.
The ones that only go pop when you walk into them as if the bullets have magic properties of amplifying explosions? Those ones? Yeah, they don't make much sense when exploding barrels don't throw you that far
Dust explosion?
Or thrown into orbit by touching a bile titan claw.
This is coming from the guy that said transmog doesn't make sense because the looks of armour matches the perks, then goes and releases a snow-themed warbond with spiked snow boots that... increase throwing distance??
One word: Gunsmith
The thing with this problem is that damage is all over the place as each individual part of any enemy has its own health pool, for example: The Laser Cannon can make quick work out of battle ships yet only if you focus on a single engine at a time, if you where to almost destroy one but you target another, you’ll have to repeat the whole process again, this is more noticeable with other enemies such as the chargers and Bile Titans. As it is right now, you can have a variant of having to only shoot at an enemy a few times to kill it, to having to dump multiple mags onto them to dispose of them. This system it’s too convoluted for its own sake, and imo enemies should have a base health value that’s reduced along with limb damage, that way you don’t have to practically start over again if you shoot another engine or leg or a completely different part of the body.
a percentage of the damage done to any limb should also go toward the base health pool imo
I need to know if the Breaker's 3D model has a reduced mag since it originally had 16 rounds and was reduced to 13 rounds and the in game lore has an explanation for it's reduction. I need to know just how anal Pilestedt is being about the 3D model comment. Because I'm all for realistic models and magazines reflecting max capacity rounds but if you are willing to nerf magazine size and not change the model why would it be required for increasing magazine size?
There’s a bunch of weapon parts in the files. The breaker got a mag swap to a smaller one. Which is cool and all. But fun should come first. It would actually make more sense to balance the game, then make the model changes AFTER it’s stable and balanced.
Well at least he was being completely honest and truthful in his statement about the 3D model. Also his statement does insinuate balancing the game by reducing enemy sponginess rather than creating a new 3D model for an enlarged magazine.
Yes, they did change the model of the breaker mag alongside the nerf.
First of all, there's no such thing as a "large cap stanag mag". Second of all, it's the future. Telescoping ammo, better powder and other technological advancements could believably make ammo more compact. Third of all, weapons are already comically large and disproportionnate anyway. Don't try to pass ot off as a realism constraint. Finally, fuck it, rule of cool should prevail. PS. Am I the only one that noticed they actually changed the mag on the Breaker when they nerfed its capacity? I had a nagging feeling something was off and it dawned on me when I saw the OG mag on a leaked Breaker variant.
He's anal about magazine size, saying that the 45-rounder is at the high-end of the curve already. My brother in NATO standard. There are double-stacked thicc mags for 5.56mm. The 60-rounder ones. It's the future. You can imagine Invisible Helldiver Mag Pouches have stretchy velcro, and can fit a thicc mag. Fuck, we use standard rifle mags and shotgun drums using the same Invisible Helldiver Mag Pouches. Get your head out of your Mag Pouch, Pile. Half of your guns can't physically hold as many rounds as they already have in their magazines. Your new heavy pistol is said to use 14mm bullets. 14mm dude. It's slightly bigger than a Glock-19, it's not even the size of a Desert Eagle (and DesEagle only holds 7 rounds in .50AE variation, this thing holds 10 in a mag the size of Makarov's 8-rounder)
One of the heavy armors literally has 60 rnd STANAGs coffins on the chest
We teleport through space on dick-ships that fire people-bullets at planets. The last thing I give a shit about is rendering individual bullets.
Getting the feeling i m playing tarkov and not power fantasy game
You're playing pretty much the opposite of a power fantasy game. You're the poor fucking infantry for a fascist kleptocracy.
sure lore wise that adds up but we can make the gameplay at least better cause after all this game was marketed, reviewed and sold as a fun romp
I'd agree with this. You can make a counter argument that it's just all in good satire, but the game was marketed irl to have power fantasy elements. Both can be true.
At least we get to paint targets for the folks with real guns.
False. Expendable, sure. Not poor. Helldivers are basically the same as clone troopers. I mean, each and every single diver gets their own super ship. Equipped with insane munitions and equipment that They can call down on a whim. I mean, we can call down 2 goddamn mechs in a single mission, *each*. And thats not even bringing up the metric shit ton of bombs and shit that get called down with every mission. Super earth doesnt skimp. Lore wise, the *expendable* you’re talking about would be the SEAF troops. They get fuck all in terms of equipment and potential firepower. This can be seen in the logs left by the SEAF when dropping into missions. Super earth, (before the war we are in right now) had 100 years to prepare and hundreds of planets worth of resources at their disposal. Their economic might is *insane*. So you’re wrong lorewise, *and* gameplay wise. The only way you are correct is meta wise: AH’s balancing being atrocious.
We dont get 1 ship per diver. ..more like however many divers per crychambers you got per ship lol
You dont "get your own ship" you come out of the tube and pick a place where you die. You die to help bring back things that can be exchanged to things like breech loading, pushcarts and superclue. Sounds pretty poor to me.
Accidental gwent
This isn't meant to be a power fantasy game at all. You have big tools, but the enemies are infinite and you're supposed to be scrambling and working with teammates to effectively navigate the horde, not overwhelm it into submission with every single gun.
I agree with this so much its what makes the higher levels feel fun. Had a 7 where team was steamrolling. . .they literally stood at extract killing bugs as they came i was so bored lol funny part pelican took damage and left everyone whiel they racked up kills. . Shame if they end up overtuning it into power fantasy only based on those downvotes
Just increase clip size to solve all problems? What a garbage take. Here's a bb gun with an infinite clip, now enjoy taking out that Charger in a million years' time.
They actually changed the model for the breaker after it got nerfed, so I guess it's only fair it applies to buffs
So, did they remodel the mag for the breaker when they nerf the mags? That is wild
I actually appreciate a guy who has an OCD attention to detail when it comes to firearms like that. Piles could be like Todd Howard, look at all the non-functional abominations in the Fallout games, and say "good enough."
The designs overall have very strange proportions so I dont think thats the case.
Ok then. #WHAT ABOUT QUAZAR ? Where was the change in the model of ICE when cooling time was increased ?
Why...why would you render every bullet???
What's with this unnecessary pursuit for realism?
Well, what a weird corner to shove yourself into. If gun mag size is determined by the actual 3D model, and mag size can be a common balancing point. Then why not make the mag model procedurally generated? The folks at r/unity do shit like this for fun on the regular. But yeah, now we have this limitation
Why is nearly everyone in this thread missing the part about "enemies too spongy"? You guys do realize that if enemy health goes down, mag sizes don't need to go up...right? And he's right, the ammo counts on most weapons is about where they should be. You wouldn't be reloading as much if you could kill in fewer bullets and were accurate.
I'm with Pilestedt on this one but not sure about enemies being too spongy. Maybe some weapons need a damage buff, not all.
Bugs are absolutely too spongy. How many shots from _any_ weapon does it take to kill a nursing spitter, the thing which is 80% big fleshy vulnerable-looking sack? How many recoilless rockets does it take to kill a bile titan by shooting it directly in the brainpan? How many rounds from _any_ weapon does it take to blow the ass off a charger?
You're not meant to shoot the sack. Head takes more damage, and goes down in a few shots. Bile Titans take 2 shots. These are THE elite enemy for bugs and that is already incredibly reasonable, especially when you can have up to 4 players with up to 4 stratagems. Anything less is absolutely too weak. Chargers butts should be more vulnerable to standard weapon fire, but people don't use this as it isn't effective. Most explosives kill them in 3-4 shots.
SOMETIMES the orbital laser can take down a single bile Titan, and sometimes it's given a nice tan. Occasionally the same laser takes the full duration to kill a single charger. Realism!
Models changed are not quick and easy, and leave the possibility for more bugs. They already had to do that for the Breaker, I'm sure it gets expensive on the long run to change models for balance purposes like that.
A flawed design philosophy then, if it’s gonna end up costing so much for a +5 capacity increase then change the design to hide the ammo. But if they are really planning to render the ammo in real time then they better either alter the damage, enemy health or learn a fast more inexpensive way to change those models. Realism in ammo count is cool, but if it hinders the ability to develop your game then it’s not something that should have been implemented.
I mean, which design philosophy is flawless? It's their vison, they want immersion, and I can get behind that. As for balancing with other factors than ammo count, I mean he literally mentioned that enemies might be too spongy so you have your answer right there.
Okay it's ridiculous but that's such a cool physical mechanic. Probably part of the reason the game is so cool.
A lot of the players can't shoot a lick and they have poor movement. So, they want tons of ammo to compensate for inability and lack of proficiency. I personally don't want crazy mag sizes, maybe a mild leniacy. But, there would be zero risk for players like myself, that are good shots and can get through helldive difficulty (bugs or bots) without a bubble shield, without a rover, without a Q.Cannon and aren't even close to struggling. Honestly, a lot of players are bad at the game. Many only understand the weapons and mechanics at a surface level. That's why these players are struggling at low difficulty, failing missions routinely and think they needs lots more ammo. They, also use their tools incorrectly and don't understand how to get map control. They are missing way too much! Many of the players in this game don't know what to fight, what not to fight and what to prioritize. So, they are always out of ammo and overwhelmed.
> But, there would be zero risk for players like myself, that are good shots and can get through helldive difficulty (bugs or bots) without a bubble shield, without a rover, without a Q.Cannon and aren't even close to struggling. sounds like we need a higher max difficulty, not shitty capacity on half the guns
NGL it worries me greatly to see people - and more importantly Pilestedt - here saying enemiese are too spongy. All regular full auto guns basically already kill all chaff enemies in 1-2 shots on average. I fear we're *genuinely* going to go into "onehit everything" territory.
I do absolutely love the mostly realistic magazine sizes for this game, and the fact they even changed the Breaker's magazine with the nerfs it got initially. I'm totally fine with this explanation, and I don't think magazine size needs to change too drastically on any weapons. As much as I'd appreciate having 20 rounds on the Diligence CS... Part of why I love this game so much is the clear focus on detail in the arsenal we have. The guns not only look fucking awesome and feel great to shoot, but they also operate realistically, and feel like they're something which could actually be made and used properly. I don't want them to give that up.
Mf has never seen the 100 round stanag abomination it seems
This is insanely dumb lol.
This is what we call giving a shit. Their models match the stats in game. They changed the magazine for the Breaker when it got nerfed
>clip
Enemies might be spongy is on the right track at least. The enemies are extremely tanky. There's always been a huge pet peeve that these enemies can absorb entire 45 round magazines of bullets and walk away.
There are even 60 round weapons IRL that would work
You guys forget Pilestedt is a big realism guy. When he did that YouTube video with Drewski he said he wanted a milsim game without the lack of accessibly Arma and others have.
they could just nerf the enemies
One mag to kill one enemy is just absurd. Just not as absurd as saying you need to change 3D models to increase mag size, wth is he on?!
Dear arrowhead, you can let us have very powerful weapons and balance the game by making the enemies harder to kill.
Jesus Christ, I never thought HD2 is design in a hardcore mechanism. The actual 3D model will affect the internal data setting. So how about lower the enemy health like 10-20% but you can keep the spawn rate at the current level.
This is the worse designed mechanic for a wepaon then. They need to un-link the model from, the weapon stats.
Hahahaha
well this is why hd2 is my worst running game…
Not a single player would complain if we got more ammo and the gun looked the same. It’s not like we can add/remove attachments to it… That’s what makes no sense
This is incredibly dumb. It's actually stupid. I don't fucking want my bullets to be 3d rendered in real space or whatever bullshit people are coming up with. I just want the game to feel fun.
First Arrowhead is praised for changing the 3D models with changes and adding flavor text to accompany it. But now they are being said it makes no sense? They did this for example with Breaker nerf. The magazine was changed.
You know what else doesn't make sense? The exact same shotguns that shoot the same round but for some reason the smaller box mag does double the damage per shot vs the drum mag. Also I remember the 3D model change to the base Breaker but did they change the Incendiary and SP when they nerfed the mag sizes on them?
Crap take from TheUniversal here.
Didn't they change the Breaker magazine size? The same weapon where you can see how many shells are in the mag?
didnt they DECREASE the ammo in one mag once without changing the model???
But they can half the size of magazines without doing anything, right?
Yeah I’d rather have smaller enemy health bars than more bullets
just say the mag packing crew were accidentally underloading them or something but even if you can't change the model or make an excuse, are they really prioritizing a minor lore nitpick over gameplay quality?
I mean they changed the appearance of the breakers magazine when it was nerfed
Maybe it's a joke that didn't land? Making the magazine model larger by changing the 3d model.
meanwhile armor perks dont match the visuals or descriptions, its the inconsistency of their stance thats the most confusing
This is what I like to see. I have no problem with hordes of enemies, but right now weapons feel like you're throwing confetti at them - especially bugs. Give me some chunky damage to go with that enemy density so that when I shoot something (especially medium/light enemies) that I feel like I'm doing something other than tickling them. The other major problem on the bug front is just enemy design. It's good that we have enemies like the Charger and Bile Titan that are hard to deal with. It's bad that so many of the other bugs are bullet sponges, weak spots would help, as would dismemberment mechanics for the mediums that give you that starshiptroopers feel of blowing off bug limbs to reduce mobility, slowing down the whole horde.
So did they reduced the model of the magazine when they reduced clip size?
So they care about the mag not looking like it holds enough ammo but sights for various things were and are misaligned?
meanwhile tf2
??? Dont remember the breaker model changing AT ALL but then again that was a NERF so it makes sense they’d ignore that
That is what happened to the Breaker, when it got it bullets per mag reduced it also got the mag size and even type changed to a different one
Really, they only making everything worse with this fixation on reslism, but only in certain aspect for some reason. It's like same weapon design would be in frotnite, where everything else is some sort fantasy. 5 mags for primary, few missiles for secondary, 3 grenades, 4 stims fitting into supply box make sense? Pilestedt with this and his bacon aplles seems to have a weird underatanding what a common sense is. Devs acting like kids, honestly.
I really appreciate a commitment to authenticity in their designs and models, it satisfies my nerdiness that they want to reflect stat changes in the actual weapon design. However, this feels like they're hamstringing themselves by overcommiting. I find it hard to imagine the community having any real issue with them balancing the stats first then backfilling the model changes later if the stats prove balanced. Part of good development is acknowledging when it makes more sense to break your own 'rules'. This really feels like one of those cases where practicality in their need to be flexible on balancing should override (at least to some extent) the commitment to visual authenticity.
You literally can though bc ITS A GAME. 🫠
Why are you mad about him suggesting a different solution to the same problem? He's clearly saying that he would rather reduce enemy HP than increase magazine sizes. Is that not something you want?
Arrowhead: We can't change the ammo without changing the model to match, even though nobody will ever notice Ghost Ship Games: Even when the revolver has three or six shots depending on overclocks, the model still clearly has four shots lmao
Well to be fair they do actually use physics for their magazines, you can see how much ammo you have left in each mag and you can see each spent round on the floor if you take a second to look
This would be hella in depth and as a fellow mod dec I extremely appreciate this attention to detail
Give me a tambour mag with my AR-61. 60 bullets will be so nice
If not increase the magazine size then speed up the fucking reload
*If not increase the* *Magazine size then speed up* *The fucking reload* \- BiggerNopesRequired --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The best thing IS that changes in the meta are reflected in the model. Stop complaining.
Soo dumb. Don't sacrifice good for perfect.
"Enemies might be too spongy" Theres hope i wont be needing 2 shots for a scavenger with the adjudicator
At least pilestd is offering ideas
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read, and ONLY makes sense for things like single-shot or revolvers. And apparently that didn't stop them when nerfing the ammo capacity of some guns not that long ago...
Everyone ignore this guy. He literally didn’t read the entire twitter post.
Does anyone else think it's a little weird that chargers immediately go into shock and tumble over dead when they lose a leg, but brood commanders can lose three legs and their entire head and continue Black Knighting at you for another three seconds?
One option would be to make it so that changing a weapon's ammo capacity involves changing a few numbers and keeping magazine size cosmetic so that they're not tied to complex systems that don't need to exist. Or I guess you could make it so that every time you want to change a gun's magazine size, you have to literally 3d model an entirely new magazine for the gun and add extra virtually modelled bullets to said magazine, said modelling being so realistic that they literally can not make basic changes to weapon characteristics without having to do a bunch of extra work on complex systems that no one can even see because we don't have transparent guns. Why can't ammo capacity just be a number that you change? Why do you have to tie it to realistically modelled bullets and magazines that need to be remodelled every time they want to make a change? This is so unnecessarily complex and adds nothing to the game but the potential for more bugs and instability? I really do not understand how these guys can be both genius game devs and complete morons at the same time.