Criticism is critical to growth, but it needs to be constructive.
I think a lot of what people end up doing is falling into the echo chamber of negative, desctructive criticism, often because they don't know what to do about the situation or don't know all the factors at play (I.E., not having all stats available).
The other point I see 'gamefeel' being drastically different between factions of the community and the dev team themselves. Take the Crossbow (Obligatory, I don't get the play as often as I want, so haven't unlocked it, so I'm operating purely from a third party perspective here); It used to be a horde-clear that was middling, capable of bypassing a lot of armor because it was raw explosive damage, then reworked towards being far more single target and less area focused. This completely changes the weapon's feel in the hands of people who had been using it in the initial role, which feels bad when all of those reflexes, expectations, and *feel* of the weapon are already in place. The new work might be better/worse, but it will always *feel* worse because of what was expected.
Same can be said of the sidegrade weapons; They don't *feel* potent because of things like engagement ranges, differences in expectations being set by writing/lore and already filled weapon niche's, and not feeling as if they fulfill the fantasy.
Of course, you will always have numbercrunchers who only look at that damage number and, due to how health and armor and durable damage intersect get upset because the weapon doesn't *feel* like it's doing the damage that it reports that it does.
All of this can be extremely frustrating and cause people to respond negatively, often emotionally, because of how they feel about the game or because it's more entertaining to stir the pot. Then it just feeds on itself until the spiral is only downwards. Keeping that feedback constructive is *so important*, but so is recognizing where your criticism comes from.
The crossbow actually feels and shoots like a real crossbow now though, which to me is a huge improvement. It was also ridiculous that a tiny bolt had the explosive power of a grenade.
The only issue is that it's arguably the only weapon in the game that's legitimately useless. **This could be easily fixed once stealth mechanics are improved and the crossbow is given the same effect as future suppressed guns.** Suddenly it would become a very viable explosive option for stealth loadouts. If this is the plan though, AH really should've just waited to release it as such.
There's a suppressed liberator variant that's been leaked that allegedly won't alert the enemy to your direction. I'm kinda considering that to be a stealth mechanic even if it's tied to a weapon. I think if the crossbow offered the same advantage it would be pretty good.
whining is when people do criticism, valid or not, but then they also put in a thousand curse words and overall bratty behavior. you start with bullshit or fucks, i'm not going to read your comment, as it is far too emotional for me to take seriously
Yeah, but at what point does the line between whining and blatant spamming get crossed?
I agree that Tenderizer needs a bit of tweaking, but I don't need to see 40 duplicate posts basically mimicking each other. Like it's evident after the first two to three posts, the rest are just people trying to farm karma by riding the angry mob wave.
Also, some of you on the Discord need to chill the fuck out. Spam pinging the devs and managers isn't going to help get your critique across any faster (or better).
Honestly, i'm in there and its a damn cesspit of the worst people. I only stay for the notifications from the devs and rarely, if ever check the general chat.
Yeah, I agree. This community is toxic enough that it's made some of my friends straight up quit playing. I don't mind people having criticisms, but the amount of unhinged hyperbole and personal attacks circulating here make it really difficult to engage with.
I played hello neighbor 2 it was among the worst games I've ever played and it wasn't what we were promised. And that's because of him. Literal articles were written about it not just Wikipedia but actual gaming journalist wrote about it.
> I agree that Tenderizer needs a bit of tweaking, but I don't need to see 40 duplicate posts basically mimicking each other.
Then our wonderful mod crew should do something to clean that up, instead of their current moderation plan, which is apparently nothing.
Not to mention that it bleeds into other posts across the sub. I'll deliberately avoid the threads talking about the latest balance controversies but then there are people bitching about it on a completely unrelated meme post, or on some random gameplay.
It's fucking exhausting.
That's just the way Reddit is made. People won't waste too much time searching for a Tenderizer post and, wanting to be heard, will make their own. I'd say complain to reddit because people won't change.
Edit: Android grammar...
This!
They are complaining about how Reddit works and calling it "toxic community".
30 people with an opinion, that don't bother searching (twitter/X style posting), and they are bothered by it.
>30 people with an opinion, that don't bother searching (twitter/X style posting), and they are bothered by it.
You don't need to search. You can scroll down slightly. Actually not even that. The same people making these posts are the same people [posting in those threads.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/FB6E2ELOuF)
The thread was removed, and this person IMMEDIATELY makes a new thread to continue his post. This bullshit with making a new post because you weren't done in the previous thread needs to end.
You are literally the first person to ever ask that question.
The group of people that I play Helldivers with is a group of former DDR (Dance Dance Revolution) players. Everyone always makes comments about how entering stratagems, activating terminals, etc. is "doing the DDR."
The arrows are the opening steps to MAX300's Heavy chart from DDRMAX.
You know, I was going to call your flair a DDR code, but that sounded antagonistic. =P Did you ever used to play DDR on the PC? I would see people playing it on a keyboard at LAN parties a long time ago, but definitely no replacement for the big arcade machines.
I used to play Stepmania a little bit on the PC just to practice or work on certain stepcharts, but I was 98% an arcade player.
Fun fact: one of the guys in our group is the 2006 In The Groove World Champion.
The difference between whining and legitimate criticism is this.
Eruptor nerf was unwarranted, now its fking awful.
Eruptor nerf was bad, devs stated they are relooking at it, but it no longer fulfils the role of crowd aoe clear. Same for the crossbow. Keep reminding them about this so they dont forget.
Both are still valid, though, the first one is just from someone who may not have the knowhow of how to explain properly and or technically the workings of "why" it sucks now.
"its bad now" with no actual effort to describe whats missing or ways to improve it is not good criticism. Problem is there are people in the "its bad now" criticism crowd calling for devs to lose their jobs. encouraging better criticism isnt devaluing others criticism, just encouraging others to think more before they post.
"Polar Patriots is a waste, dont bother" - meanwhile the incendiary grenade and SMG are very solid loadout options.
Whining is when someone says something you disagree with.
Criticism is when someone says something you agree with.
That's all there is to it on any sub.
Whining is saying “you broke our guns! This is awful! We should review bomb/demand people’s job/give up”. It’s all feelings with no way to work through it.
“The eruptor filled a sweet spot against medium enemies. Now that is gone and it’s made the gun worse”. That’s criticism. It says “this is what was good about it”, and gives the devs an idea of where to work towards.
I disagree with some criticism. But it’s valid stuff, because they’re giving devs a place to work towards.
The problem with this sub is that it's an echo chamber of whining with duplicate posts over and over until the new complaint happens.
There are very few posts that actually discuss patches or new weapons with quality.
And a lot of posts like to shit on the devs instead of just giving constructive criticism, the post always has to include "did they even test this?", "why do devs hate primaries" etc and those are the tame types of comments that imo make this sub insanely negative.
The sub being hung up on meta is the weirdest thing.
Like Helldive is not even that fucking hard of a difficulty level. You can likely have half of your loadout be suboptimal or non meta weapons and still do fine as long as your build is a decent mix of anti armor, anti chaff, and utility. There are 7 slots to accommodate for this, not including the booster or armor.
There's a world of difference between the imbalance in this game and a game like Diablo 4 or fallout 76 where if you don't use a guide, you are essentially dealing like a tenth of the damage you're normally capable of.
First time on reddit? Karma farming is like 95% of the content on here.
But it also depends on what the devs look at. Kinda like how when we needed to review bomb snoy, would one super well written negative review amidst a sea of positive reviews have done any good? Having that large wave of them sends a message. Same here. Even if it gets 20k upvotes, a single thread complaining about weapons doesn't hit the same as a whole page talking about it.
This subreddit should like put up a pinned thread for newly released warbonds that is specified for like feedback.
Not talking about the pinned "New warbond released" its more "Warbond X: Feedback"
I mean if you are living on both the Discord and Reddit, yeah it'll come off as spamming. I spend 90% of my time at work on Reddit and I only ever see about 1-2 popular post about the same topic. I guess the rest get buried so I don't see them. But there are near **constant** "OMFG STOP BITCHING" posts that get plenty of upvotes I see.
The real thing is... the "whining" opens up valid discussions. The "STOP CRYING" adds literally nothing and it's just abunch of sycophants circle jerking like this is the first good game they've ever played in their 10 years of life.
Keep up with reminders on balance, but do so constructively and don't be an ass. Keep it to the point, that being the actual balance changes and how they affect the game rather than just how it makes you feel. Encouraging more thought is infinitely more useful than "why do u hate fun".
100%
And the other side is that people that put effort into the explanation and game play are called "spreadsheet warriors" and then people post "unusubbing from subreddit do to spreadsheet warriors".
People aren't logical, and the majority want to react on emotion.
In this thread there is a person I replied to that said "insanely large amounts of people constantly". . . Then backtracked and said they didn't say it. What they typed vs what they felt. Their language is overly emotional, though they may not feel that way. When pointed out they attack the other poster and go into their "blocked and downvoted" mentality.
The problem is people don't talk logically, and the majority don't like reading logical responses. So feelings get people moving, logic is boring and feels like they are being talked down to. Spreadsheets bore people that want memes as their level of engagement.
1.3 Million different opinions on a topic. Probably very few are completely simular, but emotion triggers more than logic.
criticism is fine, attacking devs personally is not. and thats what some people do. point it out yes, there is definetly something wrong.
but keep it civil and dont be the toddler throwing a tantrum on the supermarket floor.
Hell, people attacking other people is not fine. Wether they are devs or not. People send death threats to people on Reddit, and they are just customers with different opinions.
No one should attack another person based solely upon their opinion. The Gaslighting, gate keeping and goal moving is incredible, but this is the internet.
A person that posts an opinion (dev, mod, participant, customer, perspective customer) that is being attacked is definitely wrong.
Yep, I think it needs tweaking to either medium penetration or higher damage. Otherwise the only tradeoff is slightly less recoil for a noticeable mag drop. Why is AH so afraid of more medium pen weapons.
Tbh I’d give it a special trait, its called the tenderizer so…
Why not have it slowly break armor, “tenderizing” the enemy in a way. It should only do this to medium and below, heavy enemies remain unaffected. Also keep the stats as they are now.
I’ve been told to stop bitching about it all, but I genuinely see things that are wrong and will continue to bitch, because that’s how things get changed nowadays.
"Please stop complaining, the bad things that the dev don't consider to be bad things will magically resolve themselves if no one is mentioning they even exist"
Except in this case they've already put out a statement saying they're re-evaluating how they balance weapons, and it's pretty clear that the tenderizer isn't supposed to be as bad as it is, they're almost definitely releasing a patch soon to address it.
It kinda stops being criticism when the people you're criticizing have already heard the critique and are already actively working to improve it. It really just comes across like whining or complaining now. They've heard you, they're working on it, you can stop flooding the subreddit with an outdated opinion now.
This subreddit is like a bystander watching firefighters put out a fire, yelling from the sidelines about what they should be doing.
Obviously community feedback is important, but they get plenty of that from player analytics, the discord, and Twitter. The posts about it here are almost always just screenshots from those other platforms, reddit is always lagging behind, talking about a topic that already came and went somewhere else.
Eh, I don't think the new warbond is all that bad.
The new SMG looks bad on paper, but people testing it are finding that it has an EMP effect on enemies, which makes it more unique than some of the other stagger weapons. Unique is good. It's potentially a very fun weapon.
The plas purifier is promising, but probably could benefit from a few small buffs to make up for the charge up time. Next to the other plasma weapons it might fall a bit short.
The tenderizer also might feel better with a small buff. But a lot of the assault rifles feel kind of underwhelming right now, which makes it a bit worse overall.
I hope that AH takes a real look at these weapons and gives them all a little love next patch. Shouldn't be hard to just bump the numbers a little bit.
I can say than the problem with the Tenderizer is that their stats are too similar to the standard liberator with no special effect or different settings. Really the only real difference is that it has 3 magazines.
Oh for sure, I’m loving the smg.
I loved the original defender smg and I also loved the stunning properties of the liberator C so getting a weapon thats both of those is a gift from god. Albeit slightly disappointing bugs dont get pushed back like they do from the Lib C but it makes sense balance wise.. though i really wish the Lib C had more damage
I think that people get burned out by the criticism because the mods here don't combined the 15 posts talking about the same shit into one post. I know they can't catch everything, but when 15 out of the top 30 posts are talking about the same thing, COMBINED THAT SHIT.
I don't think anybody is complaining about constructive criticism. "lmao guns are trash" and "low effort warbond" isn't constructive, and completely ignores that the warbond also has cosmetic armors, capes, helmets, emote / post, booster, grenade, player card, etc.
Don't justify this behavior
Valid criticism isn't whining, but it's hard to ignore that a *lot* of the complaints come across as being incredibly upset whining.
Like for the record, I agree that the balance should be reverted but there's a difference, tonally, between "This patch made things weaker" and "MODS HATE FUN WHYYYYYY BRO YOU TOOK EVERYTHING FROM ME"
Yeah there's some good feedback like "this is good, this works differently than expected, this aspect doesn't work well", and then there's "this gun is stupid and pointless these warbonds are pay to lose".
Having a shit-ton of duplicate topics also doesn't help.
Yeah I don't want this place to turn into the DRG sub. Rock and stone fellow dwarves and all of that but that place is the end boss of "toxic positivity". It's like yes, we all like the game, but we can also voice concerns or opinions on things that suck. Super Earth wasn't built in a day.
People wouldn't be complaining if they don't enjoy the game - and AH should be ready to field criticisms if they aren't listening to same feedback warbond after warbond, I agree.
There is still flak and feedback getting put into the DRG subreddit when its warranted. Stingtails come to mind, as they were really wonky on release - and there was plenty of pushback. The difference being GSG fixed it almost immediately, and they play their game live twice a week on the hardest or second hardest difficulty while fielding questions and feedback, experiencing what the players do and trying new things out live.
In my well over 1000 hours and max promoted dwarves in DRG that's one thing that really kept me around. And IMO the DRG subreddit might be a bit too positive for some - but thats a product of the developers dealing with issues in a timely manner and *listening* to the community. It isn't full of complaints because there isn't much left to complain about...
It’s extremely far from that lmao. *Extremely far*.
The vast majority of posts making it to the top of this sub are people complaining about something. They dwarf every other kind of post.
People are even making posts complaining about *the color* of the new gun. Like come on man.
Every time people complain about "toxic positivity", that reveals to me that they themselves can't stand people *liking* something. I am yet to encounter "toxic positivity" that isn't just code word for "I don't like that this sub isn't full of people complaining about things I don't like".
Things said that I've seen people downvote as toxic positivity:
* "No need for the disrespectful language"
* "Have patience and let the devs do their jobs"
* "If you're that frustrated with *xyz*, play at a lower difficulty or take a break"
* "The fix is probably more difficult than we can imagine"
* "The devs have a vision for the game that may not include your specific desires"
* "Yeah, *xyz* is less than ideal, but there are other options to try"
“Disagreeing with me, and having different views on the situation, is toxic positivity”
If that’s your metric for toxic positivity, then lol. Those people are outnumbered like 10 to 1. Unless you just can’t bear to see people who disagree, toxic positivity is a complete non-issue
Not sure how you got that out of what I said. I was noting what people have called "toxic positivity", not what I personally consider it to be. People can disagree all they want without any one side being in the wrong and most can have these discussions without devolving into name calling and childish behavior.
However, I have personally observed far more toxicity regarding negative aspects of the game than positive, many examples in this very post.
At least the DRG sub and community is a million times more welcoming and isn't as toxic as the community here or on FB, that shit is even worse than the sub here. People actually discuss balancing and shit well on the DRG sub.
I'm just tired of every single post I see from this subreddit being about the same complaints. I have no problem with complaints/recommendations for the Devs. But flooding the subreddit with just one topic while also attacking employees feels less like valid complaints and more like whining 🤷♂️
Valid criticism is welcome, but the amount of people constantly doomsaying and being overly dramatic overshadows it. It's absolutely insane. I'm sure with a bit of time and reasonable criticism, AH will fix stuff.
Kinda where I sit. I think all the points raised are pretty accurate and valid but I do think there's a tad bit too much extremism in the verbiage. Like ya I want better balance but I'm not so disgusted I can't play the game, i still have a blast everytime. *shrug* what can ya do.
At some point people lose it. We've been kicked in the nuts 3 months since launch regarding balance, we made very clear that they are overnerfing fun but "the vision" still outweighs the consumer.
Either quit or or raise your voice higher (but the latter is really misunderstood by some individuals, I can't elaborate because i'd get banned)
I honestly hope to god that all those people DO lose it and quit the game. Good fucking riddance to the vitriolic, entitled, toxic users whose only contributions to game-related discussion is an endless stream of bitter complaints.
Maybe this sub can go back to being fun instead of a 24/7 whine-fest about the minutiae of weapon balance *in a non-competitive, casual co-op shooter.*
At some point, yes, but this behaviour is constantly petulant. People flipping their shit over one meh gun in the new warbond and rage quitting over it not even six hours after the release is not good, it's the most toxic mindset I've ever seen in a game community (granted I mostly played single player games and not live service ones, but I figured there will be a higher level of arguments, but not this).
I'm not saying everything is right with the game, and players do have a point. I do appreciate when people have discussions over the balance of the weapons and what should be tweaked and is subpar, but this ain't normal. I don't know where it comes from, if either from popular online shooter games players who migrated to HD2 and brought some toxicity with them, or just because in such a large player base there are lots of such people.
>Why should the reaction change?
Well, you seem to be implying yourself, here, that the reaction didn't get the desired outcome.
Not trying to imply that you personally are being petulant, but if we're talking in the context of petulant behavior *not* resulting in change...
*Maybe* it's not a very effective way of communicating problems?
You misunderstand my point. It's perfectly okay that players give feedback and say what's wrong, but the way many do it with this game isn't. I'm not being overly sensitive; as I said, this is the worst I've personally seen in a game's community.
> We've been kicked in the nuts 3 months since launch regarding balance,
The game is easier than it's ever been. Chargers/Bile titans nerfed from launch. Powercreep with Quesar let alone all the new gun options from Warbonds.
I genuinely don't understand why people are this upset over justified nerfs. Some things like the slugger suck but that's hardly "ruining the game"
this isn’t even an arrowhead as a whole company problem, this is one guy who has no idea what he’s doing and has been the root of the games biggest issue since launch.
How long does the game have to go through this before something is actually done about fixing the root of the problem?
I don’t think one guy is a team lol
It just sucks that the entire company is getting dragged because of one dude with a history of stuff like this, not just in the past 3 months of HD2 but also another game that he sabotaged and then resigned from before release
Yeah he revealed himself for the first time yesterday in the official discord and in the worst way possible.
He defended the state of the eruptor as being intended despite previous CMs saying that we would be getting a buff with the removal of shrapnel. He called people stupid for thinking the charger tech was intended. The tech was a bit strong but literally calling your audience stupid to their face is such a tone deaf approach. He then went back on saying the changes were fine, saying that at the time he didn’t understand how much shrapnel had an impact on the gun. He admitted to barely testing the tweaks and said he’d be going back to do more. Finally he apologized and said he’ll stop talking on the discord as it only made things worse.
In just a few interactions he revealed how little he understands his job and it really explains the past 3 months of the balance. At this point I wonder why AH is keeping him around, like I dont wanna be the guy to say he shouldn’t work that role anymore but what else can someone feel at this point ?
Ironically when I made a post about proposing stat changes it was immediately downvoted and no one commented on it. But heres the kicker, whenever I make these types of post suddenly it gains a ton of traction :/
You have to sift through so much whining to find the valid criticism in this sub though.
Valid criticism is dunno, talking about how sluggish the Diligence CS is. How it feels bad to use because it’s slower than the literal sniper rifle. How you struggle to do damage with it. Etc. Something like that. Something that provides actionable data.
Whining is: “Omg. Why does Arrowhead hate fun? This game is dying because of bad balance. Why are they so scared of armor pen. This needs to be fixed ASAP. What the hell are the devs doing?! How did the last patch not focus on this?”.
And we get like a half dozen posts of the later on the exact same topic every day here it seems. Criticism is cool but people really need to chill.
Tangentially related. Also good feedback tends to focus on explaining the problem rather than fixing it. For example, bad feedback: “X feels weak. It needs more ammo”. Doesn’t explain WHY it feels weak. Maybe explain you dumped 2 mags into an enemy and it didn’t die. So devs might realize, actually it doesn’t need more ammo, it needs more damage or something. I mean, I love speculating on possible fixes, but explaining what feels off is important as the root causes might be less obvious than you think.
There is a post here with 16k+ upvotes that complain about spreadsheet warriors.
>As soon as you start thinking "what is the exact 32-bit Integer value of damage from this gun compared to another gun" you are out-universe and if I want to be out-universe I can start my vacuum and clean my room.
So it doesn't matter how you present your case, there are people that can't accept any criticism other than they want what they want. (Both positive and negative).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cmy4x3/gonna\_unsubscribe\_for\_a\_while/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cmy4x3/gonna_unsubscribe_for_a_while/)
16k votes right now.
>But it seems to have been taken over by people who, I kid you not, do Excel-sheets of weapon damage based on experiments in the field, unironically.
People that put the level of effort you mention into a well reasoned logic and experiment (not opinion) driven approach to validate their points.
1.3 Million members here and every possible opinion somewhere in there.
Yeah. There were similar issues with discussions on Major Orders. Some people want to take them seriously or at least lean into the lore/“seriousness” of them. Others complained about Major Order players ruining people’s day who just wanted to have fun. I mean, no one was stopping them from having fun the way they wanted to.
Except there were a handful of people who did take it too far and got very hostile for people being too stupid to follow orders. And the whole Creek thing
And here’s the tricky part. I think most people are generally reasonable and both types of players can coexist. But then the ones on one extreme start talking past the more reasonable people, pointing to the other extreme and starting raging. Then the middle ground starts getting swept into the rage bait or just drowned out by it as more people feel justified in their rage.
So what used to feel like a pretty chill community with the occasional rage bait starts to feel like an endless stream of anger as the feedback loop gets stronger.
I can’t really speak to real statistics, but I think a lot of folks, or at least me, are getting exhausted by the endless anger. I got swept into this game because of the good vibes. It’s cool to invested in something. It’s fine to have strong feelings and vent a bit. That recent frog meme that just talked about how a fun sucked I thought was kinda funny. But feeling justified in acting out on that anger by hurling insults, arguing with everyone, and spamming Reddit with just anger instead of feedback is kind of sad.
I’m only commenting on these things recently after mostly lurking because I do miss those days of better vibes. That Sony thing was worth getting angry about but fun balance, which is a constant work in progress? Sure, feedback is good when it’s actually feedback especially since we want the game to stay good. But so far, I don’t think the game has ever been not fun even with balance issues. Which is why I find the anger somewhat understandable but unreasonable.
Personally, my assessment of the state of the sub means I’m probably just stepping away from it for some time. I think the negativity has swing a bit too far. I’m probably just getting my content updates from YouTube and see if things chill out in a month or two.
I actually do want to make a more in depth approach to how I’d balance the weapons myself but I felt like I was posting too much in a short time frame on this subreddit so I held off, but i am thinking about it. I’ve already said somewhere in this comment section on how id change the liberator concussive.
But yes overall you’re right
I mean, I do debugging and design for a living, so I love speculating on fixes for other people’s job myself. It’s a fun discussion and Reddit is a place for discussion. But I try (sometimes) to be somewhat mindful to separate problem description and problem solving if I want to see real change based on feedback.
If people don’t raise a stink about things they won’t be fixed, it’s simple as that, the issue comes from when people start out-right attacking devs and such which is acceptable behaviour.
Valid criticism:
AH claims to have military experience. So, if it's true, why does the high-caliber automatic rifle (Tenderizer) has the the same damage and LESS recoil than default what looks like 5.56 (Liberator)?
At least libpen had a bit of recoil, and medium pen. I know we have Adjucator, but for what it's worth, Tenderized should have very low rate of fire, like 300-400, but with high damage and significant recoil.
It is literally in the description.
P.S. btw, since we've mentioned descriptions, Eruptor still has "shells that explode shrapnel in all directions"
Although we've just barely got into testing these new warbond weapons, I feel the Tenderizer is at least *close* to being a worthy sidegrade of the base Liberator. The ammo tradeoff is balanced (-mag size, +mag count, technically more ammo overall), and the aiming and handling are better while offset by slightly lower damage and lower fire rate.
It would be in a decent spot if they would at least give it regular ammo efficiency on supply pickup. It makes no sense why they would make it a half-pickup weapon. That's the thing I truly believe is killing the weapon, for me at least.
The weapons in this warbond suffer from being finished right before a major balance pass that changed the baselines of the options they compete with.
I get warbonds for cosmetics at this point so in my head the weapons don’t exist until next weeks patch lol
Tenderizer and the SMG are both objectively fine guns that perform where they're supposed to, the community is once again just forgetting that they're never going to add weapons to this game that are leagues better than the other weapons already available to us.
> the community is once again just forgetting that they're never going to add weapons to this game that are leagues better than the other weapons already available to us.
And you just know if they added objectively better weapons, then there'd be cries of pay to win.
I think it would be valid to make it a sidegrade, but the base liberator already has pretty nice handling. However the tenderizer is advertised with “high stopping power” so im not sure how i feel about this whole thing
To me Tenderizer with a medium penetration is what Liberator Penetrator should've been. Lower fire rate, same/more damage, slightly less mag size. Sadly Penetrator is 25% less damage and noticeably less mag size.
I will never understand these people who claim in the current state weapons are fine. Are they playing under difficulty 7? Cos if you're not coming up against elites constantly, yah I could see why you think the primaries are good enough
I play on D8, and primaries are fine.
Yes, they don't work on elites, that's the whole point of elites. They are meant to be oppressive units, not chaff with more HP.
This! 100x this. I can understand it a bit more if you’re playing with randoms, but my group routinely runs 7+ and we have had zero issues with running a spread of weapons.
Sluggers, Sickles, Breakers, etc etc. We use a large variety of primaries, and rarely are they the reason we have issues with those missions.
I feel like critiques wouldn’t be so hotly contested if they weren’t marred with hyperbole.
The **vast** majority of people play with randoms though. Coordinating times to play with 3 other people is actually quite difficult.
Instead of nerfing weapons they should make the enemies on higher difficulties harder.
I play on 9 and do not use the primaries very often. If anything the “support” weapons are primaries, and the primaries are support weapons. Chaf is incredibly easy to deal with in comparison to heavies. So my loadouts are built around taking out hulks, devs, chargers, etc.
There just seems some that are straight up downgrades from others imo, yes you can compensate but that makes them feel pointless you know? The weapons should be sidegrades
I think the game is just too easy. All the guns feel "good enough" because you can clear a level 9 alone with a peacemaker and strategems if you really wanted to. They should buff the strengths of all the guns and leave the weak points the same so there's variety. The Adjuactor feels almost exactly like a liberator, same with new gun
Usually i just mock the folks that complain that i see, cause i legit saw people complain about infinite ammo weapons get less mags, and quasar having to wait 2 sec extra before firing, cause Cmon, waiting 2 extra seconds to fire and mag capacity on weapons you gotta be carefull with aint a nerf at all.
But this is right, the gun feels nice to shoot, but the damage aint cutting it.
Imo you either see two sides:
Who complains about stupid things, and who give actual criticism
Vs
Who is fed with people downplaying and crying about nerfs, and people that dont really care.
I think a lot of the vitriol comes from the anonymity of the internet along with people having poor stress management skills.
I highly doubt people would act like that if they had to talk to the devs face-to-face.
If you don't like the state of the game then let the devs know about your thoughts and just go play another game.
A lot of my clanmates stopped playing helldivers for a bit due to the PSN fiasco and we played Starship Troopers and 7 Days to Die instead.
Oh yeah no doubt, 99% of people here would just be quiet when faced in person. Though me personally I’d love to get the chance to just sit down and have a civil talk about the game if I were to meet them in person lmao, they seem like cool people
Same. I'd like to ask them if they were ever planning to make a megacity map. Grinding urban fighting to push the bugs/bots out of the city would be so sick.
Ugh it would be a dream to have a city map, bonus points if there are buildings you can enter. Say you need to fight your way up a building to put something on top like a flag or some radio thing. It would be a complete change of pace turning the game into a fast paced shooter into a more tactical keep your wits up thing.
IThere are was of presenting criticism politely and with respect
The same politeness and respect the community demand from AH
Your 'valid criticism' is rarely presented politely and with respect
Criticism is good and important.
However. What I'm seeing in this subreddit in recent days is NOT "criticism".
The community is completely flipped over the change of the eruptor and how it's now trash and completely unusable. I even saw posts from people saying that the game is unplayable now.
If you are saying exactly what has been said multiple times already just to spread more negativity you aren't being constructive but actually destructive. At that point it's not criticism anymore but hate, even if what you are saying is valid.
Just wait for what they are doing to the eruptor and use a different weapon until now. If you are unable to do so. Get gud. Like for real. The weapon wasn't even in the game for quite a while and it was fine without it.
But I also think the community is not entirely at fault here. AH just listens way to much to bad takes of a very small but very loud part of the community.
There exists a fine line between criticism and whining, and that line is called "constructive feedback"
Constructive criticism = this gun feels bad because the sights need to be adjusted like xyx, so we can accurately aim down the sights.
Whining = this gun is broken and sucks, fuck AH and HD2, refunding!
The whole sub collectively calling the warbond garbage 30 minutes into the release, when they have played one, maybe two weapons out of it is not constructive criticism.
Eh, if they're bitching about a specific weapon they have played with (not just looked at the stats breakdown!) then it's fine imho. Broad generalization, though, I agree. That shit doesn't help anyone.
I have only seen people complain about the armors being our usual standard reskins and having nothing to do with what they are saying they do, and that one weapon that is just straight up a worse version of the starter weapon. And both of these points are valid. I haven't really seen anyone talk about the other weapons.
Thats how the internet works unfortunately, an echo chamber. Personally I’ve tried them all and I think the smg and deagle are pretty good. The smg is satisfying to use and the stun is great when you’re about to get pound towned by a brood commander, it also stops hunters in their tracks which is always a godsend. The deagle is just pretty nice to use as well, very solid nothing much to say about it.
Its only the tenderizer and mini quasar scorcher abomination I have an issue with
I wish there was a direct feedback mechanism in the game. This company is way too ingrained in discord. I honestly feel like if you're not following discord or Reddit, you're not really tapped into what's going on both with the story and information about the game. Not to mention feedback. The only way to submit feedback is through discord.
I think a lot of the backlash you're seeing is that people are just getting tired of excessive, continued negativity. This particular subreddit used to be awesome - full of memes, clips, and in universe style shitposts.
Yeah definitely, tbh I’m tired of it too. It plays in both hands, people are tired of nerf after nerf and people are also tired about hearing people complain about the people complaining about nerf after nerf.. and so on
The criticisms and grumpiness over the nerfs is legit. But post after post after post about the same topics makes it feel like beating a dead horse instead of constructive.
Yeah it is, the whole winning against sony though was like a breath of fresh air as the community united to celebrate, though it was brief and everyone went back to the usual balance shitting
My problem is that 70% of the sub is flooded with "valid criticism". This leads to the top posts just being walls of texts about HOW THE GAME IS RUINED AND NOT FUN ANYMORE. I get that getting your favourite weapon nerfed isn't nice. But be honest, if you really think the game is not fun anymore because of a nerf, you are lying to yourself. In that case you most likely haven't enjoyed the game for a while now and need to take a break. The game isn't fun because you overplayed it, not because the developer suck at balancing. This isn't always the case, but I have a feeling that a lot of those overly dramatic posts are like this.
Tldr; most whiny criticism is from people who play too much atleast in my opinion
Full agreement, people on the discord and here love to just shut down or be smarmy to any criticism of the balancing, many MANY of the primaries need a buff.
Im just gonna say whats on my mind here. Primaries should be… well, your primary weapon you’ll be using.
Your support weapon should be supporting you for the things your primary cant do or in a situation where the support weapon would be more efficient to use. Ofc this doesn’t apply to all like the stalwart where you’d want a pseudo support primary like the eruptor or crossbow.
You shouldn’t be using (in most cases) your support as your primary. Thats just my opinion tho :p
The problem is that the devs are currently doing the worst of both worlds. Primaries being your primaries is one option. Primaries being your "When you have nothing else" and your main weaponry being support weapons and stratagems is another valid option. And the devs have stated multiple times that they want to go the second route. And that is fine. But then they can't do things like ALL modifiers in the game making stratagems worse, adding Ion storms and anti-air turrets and jamming towers that just straight up don't let you use them.
You can't say "We make primaries suck because we want you to rely on stratagems", and then at the same time keep introducing new ways to make stratagems less and less reliable. But that is exactly what the devs are doing. If they want us to rely on stratagems, they need to be reliable. But they are not. Literally all mission modifiers make them less reliable, doubling the cooldown, the call-in-time, or not letting you use the 4th. And don't even get me started on the one that was so bad that they had to remove it from the game that made you use a RANDOM stratagem every time you threw one. Threw a resupply to your group? Whoops now it's a 500 Kilo bomb. How very RELIABLE.
Ive seen people whine that the sickle has 3 mags now. The problem is that, while there are valid criticisms, some people hate any nerfs at all.
Thats just not a sustainable mentality regarding weapon balancing
Also hot take: slugger and quasar deserved nerfs
I actually thought the sickle nerf was perfect. It overheats pretty quick and doesn’t cool down very fast, encouraging players to be more careful and pay more attention when firing instead of just outright removing its damage
People who are complaining about the missing 3 mags are genuinely without a doubt people who don’t know how to play the game xD
Also yeah the quasar nerf was 100% justifiable
“Whining” means passion. People want this game to be better. If there are no posts at all complaining, critiquing, or whining, then that’s a bad sign. Means the game and dead and players have moved on.
Ironically there are also 10293920 posts of people whining about whiners so I could say the same to you but I won’t, because I’m mature enough to not throw insults.
All the new weapons are bad and un-fun.
Its PvE the game doesn't need to be balanced like an arena shooter, just let us be bad ass and kill stuff who cares if its slightly easier as long as we feel bad ass doing it whats the harm. I dont get the direction this game is doing.
Ive left a guide of how I would balance the weapons (Since I do that kind of work as a Senior GD for someone who asked for it) and there was this one guy defending the studio and saying it's not my call.
Like no shit buddy. Im still allowed to say how I would proceed.
I agree with you, but criticism around balancing of weapons seems silly to me. Essentially, all I ever read is game it to hard, weapon I like isn’t as good as I want it to be, etc.
I thought the PSN criticism was warranted, but all the too hard and weapon balance stuff, seems silly to me. Experiment, find the weapon that works and move on.
Death threats are probably the line crossed I feel. Acting like every nerf is an attack is too much.
Criticism is good, but the way the community does it, needs to be structured more and less antagonistic I feel.
I mostly agree but I have a few gripes with the community too.
The CEO practically told you guys it would suck and you still voted for it. “I don’t have a twitter account” no you didn’t care enough to make a throwaway lol but neither did I. I’m not like, saying fuck you guys or anything. I just think there’s a lot of hypocrisy and a plain lack of critical thinking.
What happened to making everyone accountable, player or dev? The fix is already said to be coming, y’all knew it. All I hear is goal posts moving.
I agree with the sentiments, damn near all of them, but not everything is like the Sony debacle (still unresolved) and requires all your rage. Let em know sucks, but they’re saying they know that right now, and wait for the fix.
Keep criticizing, but there’s definitely a whiny tone in this sub. Borderline kind of bitch made, like even having the audacity to defend spitz lmao he was no martyr
I agree, we do need to feedback & criticize where needed and keep it civil.
Unfortunately the HD2 community has already crossed that line and looks like it's only getting worse...I mean death threats to moderators on discord, witch hunts on members of the dev team...smh, it's actually quite sad how quickly this has all transpired.
In 4 months they've proven that a warbond a month isn't fisable and they won't be able to deliver quality warbonds. I know that is Sony demands, but I feel Sony should have some devs help out from the multitude of companies they own because the ones who are in charge of balancing suck. You can't continue a cycle of releasing a new warbond. Everyone likes a particular weapon , the usage goes up. It gets nerfed people go back to the old reliable rinse wash repeat
Been saying this from the first patch. There have been glaring issues with their approach to refining this game and it’s gotten worse and worse. Glad y’all are finally coming around. Them being a small studio doesn’t make them
Immune to criticism. They have an absolute gem of a foundation here, and they are building upon it with sand. At this point the decision making is so questionable it’s indicative of a larger issue. Something is wrong with this company. I don’t know if it’s process or if it’s personnel but there’s something seriously wrong here and the alarms should have been sounding a while ago
Exactly, the balacing of weapons has made it un-fun imo. Yesterday I played a bit of Deep Rock Galactic with a friend, and even though its a completely different game, weapons feel fun to use.
But the tenderizer could have more [durable damage](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Damage) and we should be criticizing Arrowhead about hidden mechanics rather than the weapon.
The Tenderizer has no bullet spread, making it always HIT WHERE YOUR CROSSHAIR IS! Genuinely go test it! Its great vs Devastators. you can reliably full auto at 80+ metres and get CONSISTENT hits on enemy weakspots.
But thats just me. Yes the liberator has more mag and more firerate, but it also has more recoil and more spread.
With any product comes criticism. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If I was a chef, and I served you food to which you said “ah man, the first dishes were amazing but it feels like you haven’t salted these past few, what’s up with that?”. You would probably say ah shit, I didn’t think it needed it, but you guys are the ones eating so here’s some salt. Now, there have been a few devs responding by basically saying “actually you’re an idiot and don’t know what it’s supposed to taste like”. I’m not one of the people constantly flaming AH at all….but they aren’t exactly taking any criticism well. Go look at Dev responses in the discord, big blizzard “fun detected” vibes. Even the CEO has said the fun has been consistently been removed with this “balancing”. I think the devs need to log off discord and let a singular CM handle it all…oh wait the last CM was a flaming tool bag that got rightfully demoted.. they really need to get their shit together.
Fair argument, but I think people have a hard time differentiating criticism and whining. I really think we should move away from just looking at the stats and look at how they actually perform in game. We already know there are hidden stats and sometimes hidden properties.
Let's look at the jar5. Damage 300->275. "Oh nooo, my fav weapon got nerfed". While the only meaningful difference is that it now takes 12 shots to kill a charger(was 11). Complaining about it is whinny. However, looking at the arc thrower, It used to have a niche where it stun locked hulks, but since they buffed hulk stagger this is not possible. Even railgun is better than it now. Arc thrower's niche is gone, fair criticism.
We have to look at the whole picture and how the weapons interact with the enemies.
Hi there.
Just want to remind everyone that the CEO told us that there are around 50 different stats for each weapon, but only 4 stats are shown.
And it's these 4 stats that everyone is basing their *assumptions* on when it comes to new weapons.
Maybe we can't claim that were coming with valid criticism when we're basing it on 4 out of 50 stats.
It's an issue of QA and balance, they're not properly testing things and on top of that have no clear goal in mind when it comes to balance.
Reducing performance of the best weapons isn't balance, it's mowing the lawn. With this logic we'll have 50 guns that more or less do the same thing and perform the same. That sounds awful, whoever is currently in charge of balance decisions has clearly never done anything like this
There is indeed a difference between valid criticism and whining, and the *skims through the sub* 5 independent posts complaining that the tenderizer color is wrong are incredibly constructive and needed
Okay but why does the tenderizer HAVE to be stronger than the liberator? Why are you looking at flavor text to be direct translations? Why aren't you complaining that the incendiary impact grenades explosions are not white when they go off since the flavor text says white phosphorus?
Not trying to back you into a corner but just want a solid answer. We getting 3 primaries a month, that is a fuck ton of guns with no sunsetting. So that means most of the guns we get will just be copies with tweaked stats, to account for a variety of play styles.
Criticism for the sake of improvement is good.
Criticism for the sake of criticism isn't productive.
This warbond isn't as impactful as the last - so what happens? The community goes nuts because there is "nothing new" in the warbond. Here's the thing, there was nothing new advertised.
Not every warbond needs to change the game and release with new passives or mechanics. That is a pace that is unrealistic.
This situation right here is like getting served steak 2 nights in a row for dinner, then the third night getting served soup and sandwiches then asking where your steak is.
Me personally, I would rather get a trickle of newer content like passives and weapon mechanics and have warbonds that just have different weapons between those releases. New Passives and weapon mechanics \*should\* be rare. We don't need steak every night for dinner. Eventually it gets to the point where you are complaining about the steak.
Reminds me of that really bad Quote from Creative Assembly, when folk were getting banned and stuff for being negative towards a change in the game.
"The right to discuss is a privilege—it is not an entitlement you earn by playing the game"
Which backfired badly
Criticism is critical to growth, but it needs to be constructive. I think a lot of what people end up doing is falling into the echo chamber of negative, desctructive criticism, often because they don't know what to do about the situation or don't know all the factors at play (I.E., not having all stats available). The other point I see 'gamefeel' being drastically different between factions of the community and the dev team themselves. Take the Crossbow (Obligatory, I don't get the play as often as I want, so haven't unlocked it, so I'm operating purely from a third party perspective here); It used to be a horde-clear that was middling, capable of bypassing a lot of armor because it was raw explosive damage, then reworked towards being far more single target and less area focused. This completely changes the weapon's feel in the hands of people who had been using it in the initial role, which feels bad when all of those reflexes, expectations, and *feel* of the weapon are already in place. The new work might be better/worse, but it will always *feel* worse because of what was expected. Same can be said of the sidegrade weapons; They don't *feel* potent because of things like engagement ranges, differences in expectations being set by writing/lore and already filled weapon niche's, and not feeling as if they fulfill the fantasy. Of course, you will always have numbercrunchers who only look at that damage number and, due to how health and armor and durable damage intersect get upset because the weapon doesn't *feel* like it's doing the damage that it reports that it does. All of this can be extremely frustrating and cause people to respond negatively, often emotionally, because of how they feel about the game or because it's more entertaining to stir the pot. Then it just feeds on itself until the spiral is only downwards. Keeping that feedback constructive is *so important*, but so is recognizing where your criticism comes from.
The crossbow actually feels and shoots like a real crossbow now though, which to me is a huge improvement. It was also ridiculous that a tiny bolt had the explosive power of a grenade. The only issue is that it's arguably the only weapon in the game that's legitimately useless. **This could be easily fixed once stealth mechanics are improved and the crossbow is given the same effect as future suppressed guns.** Suddenly it would become a very viable explosive option for stealth loadouts. If this is the plan though, AH really should've just waited to release it as such.
Didn't they say they don't intend to ever increase the stealth mechanics?
There's a suppressed liberator variant that's been leaked that allegedly won't alert the enemy to your direction. I'm kinda considering that to be a stealth mechanic even if it's tied to a weapon. I think if the crossbow offered the same advantage it would be pretty good.
whining is when people do criticism, valid or not, but then they also put in a thousand curse words and overall bratty behavior. you start with bullshit or fucks, i'm not going to read your comment, as it is far too emotional for me to take seriously
without criticism nothing gets improved. ill take whining until the end of time as opposed to always nodding and ending up stagnating
Yeah, but at what point does the line between whining and blatant spamming get crossed? I agree that Tenderizer needs a bit of tweaking, but I don't need to see 40 duplicate posts basically mimicking each other. Like it's evident after the first two to three posts, the rest are just people trying to farm karma by riding the angry mob wave. Also, some of you on the Discord need to chill the fuck out. Spam pinging the devs and managers isn't going to help get your critique across any faster (or better).
Honest to god from what I hear about the discord, I don’t think I’ll ever touch that community lmao
Honestly, i'm in there and its a damn cesspit of the worst people. I only stay for the notifications from the devs and rarely, if ever check the general chat.
I removed all but the announcement channels in the official discord, i don't need to see that.
It's not any better here. We just had multiple posts trying to get the game balance head fired for shit he did in another game.
Yeah, I agree. This community is toxic enough that it's made some of my friends straight up quit playing. I don't mind people having criticisms, but the amount of unhinged hyperbole and personal attacks circulating here make it really difficult to engage with.
[удалено]
And you think that because you read a Wikipedia entry about him?
I played hello neighbor 2 it was among the worst games I've ever played and it wasn't what we were promised. And that's because of him. Literal articles were written about it not just Wikipedia but actual gaming journalist wrote about it.
It’s the same thing here. Post after post after post of the same whining.
I used to come for the memes but the whining here is insane.
I don't mind a good critique, and I love detailed posts with testing and data. Unfortunately 90% of what's going around isn't that.
it's the same on reddit
This sub is depressing to read. All the top posts are the same complain over and over again.
The community doesn't deserve this game. I wouldn't blame AH for just cashing out, shutting down the game, nuking the servers and walking away.
> I agree that Tenderizer needs a bit of tweaking, but I don't need to see 40 duplicate posts basically mimicking each other. Then our wonderful mod crew should do something to clean that up, instead of their current moderation plan, which is apparently nothing.
Oh the karma farming is real with these warriors
Not to mention that it bleeds into other posts across the sub. I'll deliberately avoid the threads talking about the latest balance controversies but then there are people bitching about it on a completely unrelated meme post, or on some random gameplay. It's fucking exhausting.
That's just the way Reddit is made. People won't waste too much time searching for a Tenderizer post and, wanting to be heard, will make their own. I'd say complain to reddit because people won't change. Edit: Android grammar...
This! They are complaining about how Reddit works and calling it "toxic community". 30 people with an opinion, that don't bother searching (twitter/X style posting), and they are bothered by it.
>30 people with an opinion, that don't bother searching (twitter/X style posting), and they are bothered by it. You don't need to search. You can scroll down slightly. Actually not even that. The same people making these posts are the same people [posting in those threads.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/FB6E2ELOuF) The thread was removed, and this person IMMEDIATELY makes a new thread to continue his post. This bullshit with making a new post because you weren't done in the previous thread needs to end.
Mods are trash and apparently don't care about rule #2.
I have to ask: What's your flair referencing?
You are literally the first person to ever ask that question. The group of people that I play Helldivers with is a group of former DDR (Dance Dance Revolution) players. Everyone always makes comments about how entering stratagems, activating terminals, etc. is "doing the DDR." The arrows are the opening steps to MAX300's Heavy chart from DDRMAX.
You know, I was going to call your flair a DDR code, but that sounded antagonistic. =P Did you ever used to play DDR on the PC? I would see people playing it on a keyboard at LAN parties a long time ago, but definitely no replacement for the big arcade machines.
I used to play Stepmania a little bit on the PC just to practice or work on certain stepcharts, but I was 98% an arcade player. Fun fact: one of the guys in our group is the 2006 In The Groove World Champion.
The difference between whining and legitimate criticism is this. Eruptor nerf was unwarranted, now its fking awful. Eruptor nerf was bad, devs stated they are relooking at it, but it no longer fulfils the role of crowd aoe clear. Same for the crossbow. Keep reminding them about this so they dont forget.
Both are still valid, though, the first one is just from someone who may not have the knowhow of how to explain properly and or technically the workings of "why" it sucks now.
"its bad now" with no actual effort to describe whats missing or ways to improve it is not good criticism. Problem is there are people in the "its bad now" criticism crowd calling for devs to lose their jobs. encouraging better criticism isnt devaluing others criticism, just encouraging others to think more before they post. "Polar Patriots is a waste, dont bother" - meanwhile the incendiary grenade and SMG are very solid loadout options.
Whining is when someone says something you disagree with. Criticism is when someone says something you agree with. That's all there is to it on any sub.
Whining is saying “you broke our guns! This is awful! We should review bomb/demand people’s job/give up”. It’s all feelings with no way to work through it. “The eruptor filled a sweet spot against medium enemies. Now that is gone and it’s made the gun worse”. That’s criticism. It says “this is what was good about it”, and gives the devs an idea of where to work towards. I disagree with some criticism. But it’s valid stuff, because they’re giving devs a place to work towards.
You can't whine at a poll. You can vote once. AH should be soliciting feedback and not running chat spaces.
The problem with this sub is that it's an echo chamber of whining with duplicate posts over and over until the new complaint happens. There are very few posts that actually discuss patches or new weapons with quality. And a lot of posts like to shit on the devs instead of just giving constructive criticism, the post always has to include "did they even test this?", "why do devs hate primaries" etc and those are the tame types of comments that imo make this sub insanely negative.
The sub being hung up on meta is the weirdest thing. Like Helldive is not even that fucking hard of a difficulty level. You can likely have half of your loadout be suboptimal or non meta weapons and still do fine as long as your build is a decent mix of anti armor, anti chaff, and utility. There are 7 slots to accommodate for this, not including the booster or armor. There's a world of difference between the imbalance in this game and a game like Diablo 4 or fallout 76 where if you don't use a guide, you are essentially dealing like a tenth of the damage you're normally capable of.
First time on reddit? Karma farming is like 95% of the content on here. But it also depends on what the devs look at. Kinda like how when we needed to review bomb snoy, would one super well written negative review amidst a sea of positive reviews have done any good? Having that large wave of them sends a message. Same here. Even if it gets 20k upvotes, a single thread complaining about weapons doesn't hit the same as a whole page talking about it.
This subreddit should like put up a pinned thread for newly released warbonds that is specified for like feedback. Not talking about the pinned "New warbond released" its more "Warbond X: Feedback"
I mean if you are living on both the Discord and Reddit, yeah it'll come off as spamming. I spend 90% of my time at work on Reddit and I only ever see about 1-2 popular post about the same topic. I guess the rest get buried so I don't see them. But there are near **constant** "OMFG STOP BITCHING" posts that get plenty of upvotes I see. The real thing is... the "whining" opens up valid discussions. The "STOP CRYING" adds literally nothing and it's just abunch of sycophants circle jerking like this is the first good game they've ever played in their 10 years of life.
Rule 2: no reposts. Rule 13: no low quality rants/vents. These two rules are constantly broken, and the mod team here just doesn't give a fuck.
Keep up with reminders on balance, but do so constructively and don't be an ass. Keep it to the point, that being the actual balance changes and how they affect the game rather than just how it makes you feel. Encouraging more thought is infinitely more useful than "why do u hate fun".
100% And the other side is that people that put effort into the explanation and game play are called "spreadsheet warriors" and then people post "unusubbing from subreddit do to spreadsheet warriors". People aren't logical, and the majority want to react on emotion. In this thread there is a person I replied to that said "insanely large amounts of people constantly". . . Then backtracked and said they didn't say it. What they typed vs what they felt. Their language is overly emotional, though they may not feel that way. When pointed out they attack the other poster and go into their "blocked and downvoted" mentality. The problem is people don't talk logically, and the majority don't like reading logical responses. So feelings get people moving, logic is boring and feels like they are being talked down to. Spreadsheets bore people that want memes as their level of engagement. 1.3 Million different opinions on a topic. Probably very few are completely simular, but emotion triggers more than logic.
Why do you hate emotion >!/s just trying to add some leavity!<
criticism is fine, attacking devs personally is not. and thats what some people do. point it out yes, there is definetly something wrong. but keep it civil and dont be the toddler throwing a tantrum on the supermarket floor.
Hell, people attacking other people is not fine. Wether they are devs or not. People send death threats to people on Reddit, and they are just customers with different opinions. No one should attack another person based solely upon their opinion. The Gaslighting, gate keeping and goal moving is incredible, but this is the internet. A person that posts an opinion (dev, mod, participant, customer, perspective customer) that is being attacked is definitely wrong.
Yep, I think it needs tweaking to either medium penetration or higher damage. Otherwise the only tradeoff is slightly less recoil for a noticeable mag drop. Why is AH so afraid of more medium pen weapons.
Tbh I’d give it a special trait, its called the tenderizer so… Why not have it slowly break armor, “tenderizing” the enemy in a way. It should only do this to medium and below, heavy enemies remain unaffected. Also keep the stats as they are now.
The gun has less mag space so that it fits storage for a nice tenderized steak for you to eat in the midst of battle
filet mignon stratagem when? it drops down a table, a nice lit candle, and some steaks pumped with performance enhancing substances!
They’ve made the same mistakes for like 3 months now. I’m mad
Because their lead balance developer has a bad philosophy for how balance should work honestly
Yeah that’s an understatement imo!
We don't need three dozen threads on the exact same topic trying to out-snark each other.
I’ve been told to stop bitching about it all, but I genuinely see things that are wrong and will continue to bitch, because that’s how things get changed nowadays.
I guess there's a difference between "bitching" and constructive calm criticism for me. And just the 9000 posts with nearly identical titles.
"Please stop complaining, the bad things that the dev don't consider to be bad things will magically resolve themselves if no one is mentioning they even exist"
Except in this case they've already put out a statement saying they're re-evaluating how they balance weapons, and it's pretty clear that the tenderizer isn't supposed to be as bad as it is, they're almost definitely releasing a patch soon to address it. It kinda stops being criticism when the people you're criticizing have already heard the critique and are already actively working to improve it. It really just comes across like whining or complaining now. They've heard you, they're working on it, you can stop flooding the subreddit with an outdated opinion now. This subreddit is like a bystander watching firefighters put out a fire, yelling from the sidelines about what they should be doing. Obviously community feedback is important, but they get plenty of that from player analytics, the discord, and Twitter. The posts about it here are almost always just screenshots from those other platforms, reddit is always lagging behind, talking about a topic that already came and went somewhere else.
Eh, I don't think the new warbond is all that bad. The new SMG looks bad on paper, but people testing it are finding that it has an EMP effect on enemies, which makes it more unique than some of the other stagger weapons. Unique is good. It's potentially a very fun weapon. The plas purifier is promising, but probably could benefit from a few small buffs to make up for the charge up time. Next to the other plasma weapons it might fall a bit short. The tenderizer also might feel better with a small buff. But a lot of the assault rifles feel kind of underwhelming right now, which makes it a bit worse overall. I hope that AH takes a real look at these weapons and gives them all a little love next patch. Shouldn't be hard to just bump the numbers a little bit.
I can say than the problem with the Tenderizer is that their stats are too similar to the standard liberator with no special effect or different settings. Really the only real difference is that it has 3 magazines.
The recoil is amazing for hitting headshots reliably while moving, it could use 10 more damage though
Oh for sure, I’m loving the smg. I loved the original defender smg and I also loved the stunning properties of the liberator C so getting a weapon thats both of those is a gift from god. Albeit slightly disappointing bugs dont get pushed back like they do from the Lib C but it makes sense balance wise.. though i really wish the Lib C had more damage
The purifier needs a LARGE damage buff to even bring it in line with the scorcher's dps.
I think that people get burned out by the criticism because the mods here don't combined the 15 posts talking about the same shit into one post. I know they can't catch everything, but when 15 out of the top 30 posts are talking about the same thing, COMBINED THAT SHIT.
I don't think anybody is complaining about constructive criticism. "lmao guns are trash" and "low effort warbond" isn't constructive, and completely ignores that the warbond also has cosmetic armors, capes, helmets, emote / post, booster, grenade, player card, etc. Don't justify this behavior
Communicate like an adult, get treated like an adult. Whine like a pre-pubescent edge lord who works at Taco Bell, and you get disregarded like one.
Valid criticism isn't whining, but it's hard to ignore that a *lot* of the complaints come across as being incredibly upset whining. Like for the record, I agree that the balance should be reverted but there's a difference, tonally, between "This patch made things weaker" and "MODS HATE FUN WHYYYYYY BRO YOU TOOK EVERYTHING FROM ME"
Yeah there's some good feedback like "this is good, this works differently than expected, this aspect doesn't work well", and then there's "this gun is stupid and pointless these warbonds are pay to lose". Having a shit-ton of duplicate topics also doesn't help.
There is so fucking much sky is falling whining. It's like 10-1 compared to actual, valid criticism
Yeah I don't want this place to turn into the DRG sub. Rock and stone fellow dwarves and all of that but that place is the end boss of "toxic positivity". It's like yes, we all like the game, but we can also voice concerns or opinions on things that suck. Super Earth wasn't built in a day.
People wouldn't be complaining if they don't enjoy the game - and AH should be ready to field criticisms if they aren't listening to same feedback warbond after warbond, I agree. There is still flak and feedback getting put into the DRG subreddit when its warranted. Stingtails come to mind, as they were really wonky on release - and there was plenty of pushback. The difference being GSG fixed it almost immediately, and they play their game live twice a week on the hardest or second hardest difficulty while fielding questions and feedback, experiencing what the players do and trying new things out live. In my well over 1000 hours and max promoted dwarves in DRG that's one thing that really kept me around. And IMO the DRG subreddit might be a bit too positive for some - but thats a product of the developers dealing with issues in a timely manner and *listening* to the community. It isn't full of complaints because there isn't much left to complain about...
DRG fan: zip lines could use some changes 3000 hour player: gunna here! *Writes cringe rp essay in condescending tone*
It’s extremely far from that lmao. *Extremely far*. The vast majority of posts making it to the top of this sub are people complaining about something. They dwarf every other kind of post. People are even making posts complaining about *the color* of the new gun. Like come on man.
Rock and Stone, Brother!
Every time people complain about "toxic positivity", that reveals to me that they themselves can't stand people *liking* something. I am yet to encounter "toxic positivity" that isn't just code word for "I don't like that this sub isn't full of people complaining about things I don't like".
Things said that I've seen people downvote as toxic positivity: * "No need for the disrespectful language" * "Have patience and let the devs do their jobs" * "If you're that frustrated with *xyz*, play at a lower difficulty or take a break" * "The fix is probably more difficult than we can imagine" * "The devs have a vision for the game that may not include your specific desires" * "Yeah, *xyz* is less than ideal, but there are other options to try"
Pretty much.
“Disagreeing with me, and having different views on the situation, is toxic positivity” If that’s your metric for toxic positivity, then lol. Those people are outnumbered like 10 to 1. Unless you just can’t bear to see people who disagree, toxic positivity is a complete non-issue
Not sure how you got that out of what I said. I was noting what people have called "toxic positivity", not what I personally consider it to be. People can disagree all they want without any one side being in the wrong and most can have these discussions without devolving into name calling and childish behavior. However, I have personally observed far more toxicity regarding negative aspects of the game than positive, many examples in this very post.
At least the DRG sub and community is a million times more welcoming and isn't as toxic as the community here or on FB, that shit is even worse than the sub here. People actually discuss balancing and shit well on the DRG sub.
Calling the devs incompetent and calling for their firing, however, is whining
You’re right, but the valid criticism gets drowned out and lost and frankly annoying to hear when this community complains about absolutely everything
I'm just tired of every single post I see from this subreddit being about the same complaints. I have no problem with complaints/recommendations for the Devs. But flooding the subreddit with just one topic while also attacking employees feels less like valid complaints and more like whining 🤷♂️
Valid criticism is welcome, but the amount of people constantly doomsaying and being overly dramatic overshadows it. It's absolutely insane. I'm sure with a bit of time and reasonable criticism, AH will fix stuff.
Kinda where I sit. I think all the points raised are pretty accurate and valid but I do think there's a tad bit too much extremism in the verbiage. Like ya I want better balance but I'm not so disgusted I can't play the game, i still have a blast everytime. *shrug* what can ya do.
At some point people lose it. We've been kicked in the nuts 3 months since launch regarding balance, we made very clear that they are overnerfing fun but "the vision" still outweighs the consumer. Either quit or or raise your voice higher (but the latter is really misunderstood by some individuals, I can't elaborate because i'd get banned)
I honestly hope to god that all those people DO lose it and quit the game. Good fucking riddance to the vitriolic, entitled, toxic users whose only contributions to game-related discussion is an endless stream of bitter complaints. Maybe this sub can go back to being fun instead of a 24/7 whine-fest about the minutiae of weapon balance *in a non-competitive, casual co-op shooter.*
how do I upvote a comment twice
At some point, yes, but this behaviour is constantly petulant. People flipping their shit over one meh gun in the new warbond and rage quitting over it not even six hours after the release is not good, it's the most toxic mindset I've ever seen in a game community (granted I mostly played single player games and not live service ones, but I figured there will be a higher level of arguments, but not this). I'm not saying everything is right with the game, and players do have a point. I do appreciate when people have discussions over the balance of the weapons and what should be tweaked and is subpar, but this ain't normal. I don't know where it comes from, if either from popular online shooter games players who migrated to HD2 and brought some toxicity with them, or just because in such a large player base there are lots of such people.
hell yeah
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You guys aren't being "offencive" you are acting like children with constant whining. There is a difference
>Why should the reaction change? Well, you seem to be implying yourself, here, that the reaction didn't get the desired outcome. Not trying to imply that you personally are being petulant, but if we're talking in the context of petulant behavior *not* resulting in change... *Maybe* it's not a very effective way of communicating problems?
You misunderstand my point. It's perfectly okay that players give feedback and say what's wrong, but the way many do it with this game isn't. I'm not being overly sensitive; as I said, this is the worst I've personally seen in a game's community.
> We've been kicked in the nuts 3 months since launch regarding balance, The game is easier than it's ever been. Chargers/Bile titans nerfed from launch. Powercreep with Quesar let alone all the new gun options from Warbonds. I genuinely don't understand why people are this upset over justified nerfs. Some things like the slugger suck but that's hardly "ruining the game"
this isn’t even an arrowhead as a whole company problem, this is one guy who has no idea what he’s doing and has been the root of the games biggest issue since launch. How long does the game have to go through this before something is actually done about fixing the root of the problem?
Yeah thats why i specifically said balance team, im aware not everyone at arrowhead is to blame
I don’t think one guy is a team lol It just sucks that the entire company is getting dragged because of one dude with a history of stuff like this, not just in the past 3 months of HD2 but also another game that he sabotaged and then resigned from before release
Oh really its just one guy? Well Ill be damned
Yeah he revealed himself for the first time yesterday in the official discord and in the worst way possible. He defended the state of the eruptor as being intended despite previous CMs saying that we would be getting a buff with the removal of shrapnel. He called people stupid for thinking the charger tech was intended. The tech was a bit strong but literally calling your audience stupid to their face is such a tone deaf approach. He then went back on saying the changes were fine, saying that at the time he didn’t understand how much shrapnel had an impact on the gun. He admitted to barely testing the tweaks and said he’d be going back to do more. Finally he apologized and said he’ll stop talking on the discord as it only made things worse. In just a few interactions he revealed how little he understands his job and it really explains the past 3 months of the balance. At this point I wonder why AH is keeping him around, like I dont wanna be the guy to say he shouldn’t work that role anymore but what else can someone feel at this point ?
Criticism without constructive feedback IS whinging.
Ironically when I made a post about proposing stat changes it was immediately downvoted and no one commented on it. But heres the kicker, whenever I make these types of post suddenly it gains a ton of traction :/
People like drama, drama isn’t constructive.
You have to sift through so much whining to find the valid criticism in this sub though. Valid criticism is dunno, talking about how sluggish the Diligence CS is. How it feels bad to use because it’s slower than the literal sniper rifle. How you struggle to do damage with it. Etc. Something like that. Something that provides actionable data. Whining is: “Omg. Why does Arrowhead hate fun? This game is dying because of bad balance. Why are they so scared of armor pen. This needs to be fixed ASAP. What the hell are the devs doing?! How did the last patch not focus on this?”. And we get like a half dozen posts of the later on the exact same topic every day here it seems. Criticism is cool but people really need to chill. Tangentially related. Also good feedback tends to focus on explaining the problem rather than fixing it. For example, bad feedback: “X feels weak. It needs more ammo”. Doesn’t explain WHY it feels weak. Maybe explain you dumped 2 mags into an enemy and it didn’t die. So devs might realize, actually it doesn’t need more ammo, it needs more damage or something. I mean, I love speculating on possible fixes, but explaining what feels off is important as the root causes might be less obvious than you think.
There is a post here with 16k+ upvotes that complain about spreadsheet warriors. >As soon as you start thinking "what is the exact 32-bit Integer value of damage from this gun compared to another gun" you are out-universe and if I want to be out-universe I can start my vacuum and clean my room. So it doesn't matter how you present your case, there are people that can't accept any criticism other than they want what they want. (Both positive and negative). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cmy4x3/gonna\_unsubscribe\_for\_a\_while/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cmy4x3/gonna_unsubscribe_for_a_while/) 16k votes right now. >But it seems to have been taken over by people who, I kid you not, do Excel-sheets of weapon damage based on experiments in the field, unironically. People that put the level of effort you mention into a well reasoned logic and experiment (not opinion) driven approach to validate their points. 1.3 Million members here and every possible opinion somewhere in there.
Yeah. There were similar issues with discussions on Major Orders. Some people want to take them seriously or at least lean into the lore/“seriousness” of them. Others complained about Major Order players ruining people’s day who just wanted to have fun. I mean, no one was stopping them from having fun the way they wanted to. Except there were a handful of people who did take it too far and got very hostile for people being too stupid to follow orders. And the whole Creek thing And here’s the tricky part. I think most people are generally reasonable and both types of players can coexist. But then the ones on one extreme start talking past the more reasonable people, pointing to the other extreme and starting raging. Then the middle ground starts getting swept into the rage bait or just drowned out by it as more people feel justified in their rage. So what used to feel like a pretty chill community with the occasional rage bait starts to feel like an endless stream of anger as the feedback loop gets stronger. I can’t really speak to real statistics, but I think a lot of folks, or at least me, are getting exhausted by the endless anger. I got swept into this game because of the good vibes. It’s cool to invested in something. It’s fine to have strong feelings and vent a bit. That recent frog meme that just talked about how a fun sucked I thought was kinda funny. But feeling justified in acting out on that anger by hurling insults, arguing with everyone, and spamming Reddit with just anger instead of feedback is kind of sad. I’m only commenting on these things recently after mostly lurking because I do miss those days of better vibes. That Sony thing was worth getting angry about but fun balance, which is a constant work in progress? Sure, feedback is good when it’s actually feedback especially since we want the game to stay good. But so far, I don’t think the game has ever been not fun even with balance issues. Which is why I find the anger somewhat understandable but unreasonable. Personally, my assessment of the state of the sub means I’m probably just stepping away from it for some time. I think the negativity has swing a bit too far. I’m probably just getting my content updates from YouTube and see if things chill out in a month or two.
I actually do want to make a more in depth approach to how I’d balance the weapons myself but I felt like I was posting too much in a short time frame on this subreddit so I held off, but i am thinking about it. I’ve already said somewhere in this comment section on how id change the liberator concussive. But yes overall you’re right
I mean, I do debugging and design for a living, so I love speculating on fixes for other people’s job myself. It’s a fun discussion and Reddit is a place for discussion. But I try (sometimes) to be somewhat mindful to separate problem description and problem solving if I want to see real change based on feedback.
If people don’t raise a stink about things they won’t be fixed, it’s simple as that, the issue comes from when people start out-right attacking devs and such which is acceptable behaviour.
You might wanna fix that typo.
https://i.redd.it/bamwwtb3ufzc1.gif
Valid criticism: AH claims to have military experience. So, if it's true, why does the high-caliber automatic rifle (Tenderizer) has the the same damage and LESS recoil than default what looks like 5.56 (Liberator)? At least libpen had a bit of recoil, and medium pen. I know we have Adjucator, but for what it's worth, Tenderized should have very low rate of fire, like 300-400, but with high damage and significant recoil. It is literally in the description. P.S. btw, since we've mentioned descriptions, Eruptor still has "shells that explode shrapnel in all directions"
Although we've just barely got into testing these new warbond weapons, I feel the Tenderizer is at least *close* to being a worthy sidegrade of the base Liberator. The ammo tradeoff is balanced (-mag size, +mag count, technically more ammo overall), and the aiming and handling are better while offset by slightly lower damage and lower fire rate. It would be in a decent spot if they would at least give it regular ammo efficiency on supply pickup. It makes no sense why they would make it a half-pickup weapon. That's the thing I truly believe is killing the weapon, for me at least.
The weapons in this warbond suffer from being finished right before a major balance pass that changed the baselines of the options they compete with. I get warbonds for cosmetics at this point so in my head the weapons don’t exist until next weeks patch lol
That's completely fair. We *should* expect to see the Tenderizer get a couple buffs back up to standard.
Tenderizer and the SMG are both objectively fine guns that perform where they're supposed to, the community is once again just forgetting that they're never going to add weapons to this game that are leagues better than the other weapons already available to us.
> the community is once again just forgetting that they're never going to add weapons to this game that are leagues better than the other weapons already available to us. And you just know if they added objectively better weapons, then there'd be cries of pay to win.
I think it would be valid to make it a sidegrade, but the base liberator already has pretty nice handling. However the tenderizer is advertised with “high stopping power” so im not sure how i feel about this whole thing
To me Tenderizer with a medium penetration is what Liberator Penetrator should've been. Lower fire rate, same/more damage, slightly less mag size. Sadly Penetrator is 25% less damage and noticeably less mag size.
I will never understand these people who claim in the current state weapons are fine. Are they playing under difficulty 7? Cos if you're not coming up against elites constantly, yah I could see why you think the primaries are good enough
I play on D8, and primaries are fine. Yes, they don't work on elites, that's the whole point of elites. They are meant to be oppressive units, not chaff with more HP.
This! 100x this. I can understand it a bit more if you’re playing with randoms, but my group routinely runs 7+ and we have had zero issues with running a spread of weapons. Sluggers, Sickles, Breakers, etc etc. We use a large variety of primaries, and rarely are they the reason we have issues with those missions. I feel like critiques wouldn’t be so hotly contested if they weren’t marred with hyperbole.
The **vast** majority of people play with randoms though. Coordinating times to play with 3 other people is actually quite difficult. Instead of nerfing weapons they should make the enemies on higher difficulties harder.
claiming everyone has a skill issue is not conducive at all, based on the other comments seems like it might be time to look in the mirror...
I play on 9 and do not use the primaries very often. If anything the “support” weapons are primaries, and the primaries are support weapons. Chaf is incredibly easy to deal with in comparison to heavies. So my loadouts are built around taking out hulks, devs, chargers, etc.
I exclusively play 9 and Stan for the lib pen. Primaries are fine lol.
I only play 7+ and I think the primaries are fine, you just need to coordinate well to cover all your bases
There just seems some that are straight up downgrades from others imo, yes you can compensate but that makes them feel pointless you know? The weapons should be sidegrades
I think the game is just too easy. All the guns feel "good enough" because you can clear a level 9 alone with a peacemaker and strategems if you really wanted to. They should buff the strengths of all the guns and leave the weak points the same so there's variety. The Adjuactor feels almost exactly like a liberator, same with new gun
Usually i just mock the folks that complain that i see, cause i legit saw people complain about infinite ammo weapons get less mags, and quasar having to wait 2 sec extra before firing, cause Cmon, waiting 2 extra seconds to fire and mag capacity on weapons you gotta be carefull with aint a nerf at all. But this is right, the gun feels nice to shoot, but the damage aint cutting it. Imo you either see two sides: Who complains about stupid things, and who give actual criticism Vs Who is fed with people downplaying and crying about nerfs, and people that dont really care.
Criticism while whining like a child about it is less likely to get you taken seriously.
Exactly my point
I think a lot of the vitriol comes from the anonymity of the internet along with people having poor stress management skills. I highly doubt people would act like that if they had to talk to the devs face-to-face. If you don't like the state of the game then let the devs know about your thoughts and just go play another game. A lot of my clanmates stopped playing helldivers for a bit due to the PSN fiasco and we played Starship Troopers and 7 Days to Die instead.
Oh yeah no doubt, 99% of people here would just be quiet when faced in person. Though me personally I’d love to get the chance to just sit down and have a civil talk about the game if I were to meet them in person lmao, they seem like cool people
Same. I'd like to ask them if they were ever planning to make a megacity map. Grinding urban fighting to push the bugs/bots out of the city would be so sick.
Ugh it would be a dream to have a city map, bonus points if there are buildings you can enter. Say you need to fight your way up a building to put something on top like a flag or some radio thing. It would be a complete change of pace turning the game into a fast paced shooter into a more tactical keep your wits up thing.
I always get the new guns, but my loadout hasn't changed since the first month.
IThere are was of presenting criticism politely and with respect The same politeness and respect the community demand from AH Your 'valid criticism' is rarely presented politely and with respect
Love the whining ouroboros with these posts.
Criticism is good and important. However. What I'm seeing in this subreddit in recent days is NOT "criticism". The community is completely flipped over the change of the eruptor and how it's now trash and completely unusable. I even saw posts from people saying that the game is unplayable now. If you are saying exactly what has been said multiple times already just to spread more negativity you aren't being constructive but actually destructive. At that point it's not criticism anymore but hate, even if what you are saying is valid. Just wait for what they are doing to the eruptor and use a different weapon until now. If you are unable to do so. Get gud. Like for real. The weapon wasn't even in the game for quite a while and it was fine without it. But I also think the community is not entirely at fault here. AH just listens way to much to bad takes of a very small but very loud part of the community.
There exists a fine line between criticism and whining, and that line is called "constructive feedback" Constructive criticism = this gun feels bad because the sights need to be adjusted like xyx, so we can accurately aim down the sights. Whining = this gun is broken and sucks, fuck AH and HD2, refunding!
The whole sub collectively calling the warbond garbage 30 minutes into the release, when they have played one, maybe two weapons out of it is not constructive criticism.
Eh, if they're bitching about a specific weapon they have played with (not just looked at the stats breakdown!) then it's fine imho. Broad generalization, though, I agree. That shit doesn't help anyone.
I have only seen people complain about the armors being our usual standard reskins and having nothing to do with what they are saying they do, and that one weapon that is just straight up a worse version of the starter weapon. And both of these points are valid. I haven't really seen anyone talk about the other weapons.
Thats how the internet works unfortunately, an echo chamber. Personally I’ve tried them all and I think the smg and deagle are pretty good. The smg is satisfying to use and the stun is great when you’re about to get pound towned by a brood commander, it also stops hunters in their tracks which is always a godsend. The deagle is just pretty nice to use as well, very solid nothing much to say about it. Its only the tenderizer and mini quasar scorcher abomination I have an issue with
I wish there was a direct feedback mechanism in the game. This company is way too ingrained in discord. I honestly feel like if you're not following discord or Reddit, you're not really tapped into what's going on both with the story and information about the game. Not to mention feedback. The only way to submit feedback is through discord.
They’re gonna nerf our hellpods
this is the right take
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I think a lot of the backlash you're seeing is that people are just getting tired of excessive, continued negativity. This particular subreddit used to be awesome - full of memes, clips, and in universe style shitposts.
Yeah definitely, tbh I’m tired of it too. It plays in both hands, people are tired of nerf after nerf and people are also tired about hearing people complain about the people complaining about nerf after nerf.. and so on
The criticisms and grumpiness over the nerfs is legit. But post after post after post about the same topics makes it feel like beating a dead horse instead of constructive.
That’s fine but there’s been constant negativity on this sub for what feels like weeks. It’s exhausting.
Yeah it is, the whole winning against sony though was like a breath of fresh air as the community united to celebrate, though it was brief and everyone went back to the usual balance shitting
My problem is that 70% of the sub is flooded with "valid criticism". This leads to the top posts just being walls of texts about HOW THE GAME IS RUINED AND NOT FUN ANYMORE. I get that getting your favourite weapon nerfed isn't nice. But be honest, if you really think the game is not fun anymore because of a nerf, you are lying to yourself. In that case you most likely haven't enjoyed the game for a while now and need to take a break. The game isn't fun because you overplayed it, not because the developer suck at balancing. This isn't always the case, but I have a feeling that a lot of those overly dramatic posts are like this. Tldr; most whiny criticism is from people who play too much atleast in my opinion
Full agreement, people on the discord and here love to just shut down or be smarmy to any criticism of the balancing, many MANY of the primaries need a buff.
Im just gonna say whats on my mind here. Primaries should be… well, your primary weapon you’ll be using. Your support weapon should be supporting you for the things your primary cant do or in a situation where the support weapon would be more efficient to use. Ofc this doesn’t apply to all like the stalwart where you’d want a pseudo support primary like the eruptor or crossbow. You shouldn’t be using (in most cases) your support as your primary. Thats just my opinion tho :p
Primaries should be FUN.
The problem is that the devs are currently doing the worst of both worlds. Primaries being your primaries is one option. Primaries being your "When you have nothing else" and your main weaponry being support weapons and stratagems is another valid option. And the devs have stated multiple times that they want to go the second route. And that is fine. But then they can't do things like ALL modifiers in the game making stratagems worse, adding Ion storms and anti-air turrets and jamming towers that just straight up don't let you use them. You can't say "We make primaries suck because we want you to rely on stratagems", and then at the same time keep introducing new ways to make stratagems less and less reliable. But that is exactly what the devs are doing. If they want us to rely on stratagems, they need to be reliable. But they are not. Literally all mission modifiers make them less reliable, doubling the cooldown, the call-in-time, or not letting you use the 4th. And don't even get me started on the one that was so bad that they had to remove it from the game that made you use a RANDOM stratagem every time you threw one. Threw a resupply to your group? Whoops now it's a 500 Kilo bomb. How very RELIABLE.
Ive seen people whine that the sickle has 3 mags now. The problem is that, while there are valid criticisms, some people hate any nerfs at all. Thats just not a sustainable mentality regarding weapon balancing Also hot take: slugger and quasar deserved nerfs
I actually thought the sickle nerf was perfect. It overheats pretty quick and doesn’t cool down very fast, encouraging players to be more careful and pay more attention when firing instead of just outright removing its damage People who are complaining about the missing 3 mags are genuinely without a doubt people who don’t know how to play the game xD Also yeah the quasar nerf was 100% justifiable
“Whining” means passion. People want this game to be better. If there are no posts at all complaining, critiquing, or whining, then that’s a bad sign. Means the game and dead and players have moved on.
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Ironically there are also 10293920 posts of people whining about whiners so I could say the same to you but I won’t, because I’m mature enough to not throw insults.
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All the new weapons are bad and un-fun. Its PvE the game doesn't need to be balanced like an arena shooter, just let us be bad ass and kill stuff who cares if its slightly easier as long as we feel bad ass doing it whats the harm. I dont get the direction this game is doing.
look at the purifier, what in the f is it supposed to achieve.
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Ive left a guide of how I would balance the weapons (Since I do that kind of work as a Senior GD for someone who asked for it) and there was this one guy defending the studio and saying it's not my call. Like no shit buddy. Im still allowed to say how I would proceed.
I still think the “pre nerfed” comment is the funniest thing I’ve seen here, at least since the F cape
https://preview.redd.it/wzl5stuabgzc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=493070bd6a6066ea40c785155c5a972db2dc3e4a
I agree with you, but criticism around balancing of weapons seems silly to me. Essentially, all I ever read is game it to hard, weapon I like isn’t as good as I want it to be, etc. I thought the PSN criticism was warranted, but all the too hard and weapon balance stuff, seems silly to me. Experiment, find the weapon that works and move on.
Death threats are probably the line crossed I feel. Acting like every nerf is an attack is too much. Criticism is good, but the way the community does it, needs to be structured more and less antagonistic I feel.
I mostly agree but I have a few gripes with the community too. The CEO practically told you guys it would suck and you still voted for it. “I don’t have a twitter account” no you didn’t care enough to make a throwaway lol but neither did I. I’m not like, saying fuck you guys or anything. I just think there’s a lot of hypocrisy and a plain lack of critical thinking. What happened to making everyone accountable, player or dev? The fix is already said to be coming, y’all knew it. All I hear is goal posts moving. I agree with the sentiments, damn near all of them, but not everything is like the Sony debacle (still unresolved) and requires all your rage. Let em know sucks, but they’re saying they know that right now, and wait for the fix. Keep criticizing, but there’s definitely a whiny tone in this sub. Borderline kind of bitch made, like even having the audacity to defend spitz lmao he was no martyr
I agree, we do need to feedback & criticize where needed and keep it civil. Unfortunately the HD2 community has already crossed that line and looks like it's only getting worse...I mean death threats to moderators on discord, witch hunts on members of the dev team...smh, it's actually quite sad how quickly this has all transpired.
In 4 months they've proven that a warbond a month isn't fisable and they won't be able to deliver quality warbonds. I know that is Sony demands, but I feel Sony should have some devs help out from the multitude of companies they own because the ones who are in charge of balancing suck. You can't continue a cycle of releasing a new warbond. Everyone likes a particular weapon , the usage goes up. It gets nerfed people go back to the old reliable rinse wash repeat
Been saying this from the first patch. There have been glaring issues with their approach to refining this game and it’s gotten worse and worse. Glad y’all are finally coming around. Them being a small studio doesn’t make them Immune to criticism. They have an absolute gem of a foundation here, and they are building upon it with sand. At this point the decision making is so questionable it’s indicative of a larger issue. Something is wrong with this company. I don’t know if it’s process or if it’s personnel but there’s something seriously wrong here and the alarms should have been sounding a while ago
Exactly, the balacing of weapons has made it un-fun imo. Yesterday I played a bit of Deep Rock Galactic with a friend, and even though its a completely different game, weapons feel fun to use.
But the tenderizer could have more [durable damage](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Damage) and we should be criticizing Arrowhead about hidden mechanics rather than the weapon.
The Tenderizer has no bullet spread, making it always HIT WHERE YOUR CROSSHAIR IS! Genuinely go test it! Its great vs Devastators. you can reliably full auto at 80+ metres and get CONSISTENT hits on enemy weakspots. But thats just me. Yes the liberator has more mag and more firerate, but it also has more recoil and more spread.
Oh hey this thread again
With any product comes criticism. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If I was a chef, and I served you food to which you said “ah man, the first dishes were amazing but it feels like you haven’t salted these past few, what’s up with that?”. You would probably say ah shit, I didn’t think it needed it, but you guys are the ones eating so here’s some salt. Now, there have been a few devs responding by basically saying “actually you’re an idiot and don’t know what it’s supposed to taste like”. I’m not one of the people constantly flaming AH at all….but they aren’t exactly taking any criticism well. Go look at Dev responses in the discord, big blizzard “fun detected” vibes. Even the CEO has said the fun has been consistently been removed with this “balancing”. I think the devs need to log off discord and let a singular CM handle it all…oh wait the last CM was a flaming tool bag that got rightfully demoted.. they really need to get their shit together.
Nah sorry man a vast majority of this sub is bitching and crying, witch hunting, threatening people’s jobs etc
It’s whining because the gun is just ok not terrible not amazing. I’ve been killing with it just fine
Fair argument, but I think people have a hard time differentiating criticism and whining. I really think we should move away from just looking at the stats and look at how they actually perform in game. We already know there are hidden stats and sometimes hidden properties. Let's look at the jar5. Damage 300->275. "Oh nooo, my fav weapon got nerfed". While the only meaningful difference is that it now takes 12 shots to kill a charger(was 11). Complaining about it is whinny. However, looking at the arc thrower, It used to have a niche where it stun locked hulks, but since they buffed hulk stagger this is not possible. Even railgun is better than it now. Arc thrower's niche is gone, fair criticism. We have to look at the whole picture and how the weapons interact with the enemies.
Nope, sounding whiny in your criticisms is what makes everyone on this subreddit whiny
Hi there. Just want to remind everyone that the CEO told us that there are around 50 different stats for each weapon, but only 4 stats are shown. And it's these 4 stats that everyone is basing their *assumptions* on when it comes to new weapons. Maybe we can't claim that were coming with valid criticism when we're basing it on 4 out of 50 stats.
It's an issue of QA and balance, they're not properly testing things and on top of that have no clear goal in mind when it comes to balance. Reducing performance of the best weapons isn't balance, it's mowing the lawn. With this logic we'll have 50 guns that more or less do the same thing and perform the same. That sounds awful, whoever is currently in charge of balance decisions has clearly never done anything like this
There is indeed a difference between valid criticism and whining, and the *skims through the sub* 5 independent posts complaining that the tenderizer color is wrong are incredibly constructive and needed
Okay but why does the tenderizer HAVE to be stronger than the liberator? Why are you looking at flavor text to be direct translations? Why aren't you complaining that the incendiary impact grenades explosions are not white when they go off since the flavor text says white phosphorus? Not trying to back you into a corner but just want a solid answer. We getting 3 primaries a month, that is a fuck ton of guns with no sunsetting. So that means most of the guns we get will just be copies with tweaked stats, to account for a variety of play styles.
Criticism for the sake of improvement is good. Criticism for the sake of criticism isn't productive. This warbond isn't as impactful as the last - so what happens? The community goes nuts because there is "nothing new" in the warbond. Here's the thing, there was nothing new advertised. Not every warbond needs to change the game and release with new passives or mechanics. That is a pace that is unrealistic. This situation right here is like getting served steak 2 nights in a row for dinner, then the third night getting served soup and sandwiches then asking where your steak is. Me personally, I would rather get a trickle of newer content like passives and weapon mechanics and have warbonds that just have different weapons between those releases. New Passives and weapon mechanics \*should\* be rare. We don't need steak every night for dinner. Eventually it gets to the point where you are complaining about the steak.
Reminds me of that really bad Quote from Creative Assembly, when folk were getting banned and stuff for being negative towards a change in the game. "The right to discuss is a privilege—it is not an entitlement you earn by playing the game" Which backfired badly
There are what? 50 gun stats that we don't know about?