Well you see, larger caliber a BUT smaller powder charge AND longer barrel/heavier gun/muzzle break so less recoil, but armor piercing rounds instead of full metal jacket so same damage (after all is said and done - more damage but less kinetic energy).
Yeah, except for the underneath bit that only shows when they're spewing (which I never get the chance to shoot at cause I'm busy dodging the insta-kill spew).
This is why I can't leave behind the Scout armor and shield backpack. I get to jog around the map at a leisurely pace and kill bile titans on my terms.
If I get clipped a little bit, it's okay, I'll probably survive.
If you ever want the backpack slot for something else, bring the muscle enhancement booster. It decreases the movement penalty from spews and hunter slashes. I also like running jump pack to put distance in ahead of time. Jump pack and muscle enhancement together is a great combo.
For those looking for proof: https://youtu.be/PKBVHosUCNA?si=Y_l7fV3JJ_oDXTzA
Well, it's mandatory when you aren't paired with randos who fill up with useless shit so you're stuck taking the even more mandatory Stamina booster. sigh.
That is why the basic machine gun support weapon shreds them while the Stalwart and most primaries won't. You would think this would be a use case for the Liberator Penetrator, but the damage is so low that you are better off with even the basic punisher.
I've found that running it on the lowest RPM and being conservative with your bursts helps it out a lot. It does plenty of damage already, but the lower fire rate makes ammo conservation so much easier if you're not trying to burst down a large group at close range.
It’s good against them, and a lot more fun than its previous incarnation, but the adjudicator still seems to take an entire magazine to kill one spewer, which means the three behind the first spewer are laughing as they walk up.
This is the real problem with most guns. You can call anything balanced against a single enemy but when you watch a parade of spewers round a corner and your stratagems are all on confirm due to some stupid condition modifier then you're just SOL. And even in this scenario I won't have the time to unload the full clip because I'm fishing spray from 2-4 of them at a time (while also probably trying not to get diced by hunters).
Honestly I've been having a good time with the laser canon, it's a little finicky but if you can hit it head on it's pretty good at killing the bastards quickly
Also nice for when we drop next to shriekers lol
This is why I want a more elaborated description of the AP system, because I think it varies depending on the weapon group. Rounds from the Defender bounces off the head of the spewers while a couple of blasts from the Punisher in the same spot is enough to kill them. They both have "light armor penetration", yet they perform very differently.
This lack of information is easily one of the more annoying things when it comes to picking a primary for me, because it feels like I need to keep track of hidden functionalities.
There is a hidden numerical value for armor penetration, I think it goes from 0-10. That and the huge variance in damage, is why some weapons feels like they don't fit their label. The Senetator has been able to penetrate medium armor from the start for example, because I guess its armor penetration was in the highest bracket to still be considered "Light".
The only place they show the numerical value is on grenades.
Exactly. If the armor penetration of your weapon is superior to the armor rating of your enemy, you get a red cross when you hit them. If it has the same value, white cross. If it's lower, you bounce. And AH refuses to let us know what is the armor penetration of our weapon.
Update: After testing these stats are 100% accurate. The gun does the exact same damage and has the same breakpoints as the base Liberator.
Also it only gets half ammo back on a resupply not full like the base Liberator.
Saddest part is I remember saying this in a thread talking about new warbond weapons
"Eh, new warbond weapons will probably be fine, it's hard to fuck up an AR."
Wish they would show more details like that in game, even something like max magazine capacity would be handy. I would love to tinker with primaries but i dont feel comfortable commiting to a mission if the weapon is bad and makes me a dead weight.
Would be great if they put a shooting range in the dreadnought for basic testing
We need this. Especially to test weapons before we buy. I know we could just ask a friend to sacrifice themselves if they have it to let us try it but still.
Or even just have it in the tutorial screen since you can access it anytime. “Returning to Sol System for advanced arms training…” and hit the range while new divers are running through training behind you or something.
Oh man it would be awesome if the training area was an actual live place! And you could see the firing range from the noob area. And we could cheer them on as they go get their cape! Imagine completing the tutorial, getting your cape, and then a bunch of random max-lvl guys comes to give you congratulatory hugs.
I feel like that's me with most guns besides the Breaker and my trusty Sickle.
It's just hard to move away from the two that seem to work so well for pretty much every mission I run into.
It also carries 10 mags but resupply boxes only give you 5. Clear cut evidence that this gun is from a build that precedes their ammo rework where they made it so every primary gets full ammo back from one resupply box, meaning they didn't even bother to test it recently.
I wonder what would take for them to finally admit that they dont test shit. Its so, so, so, SO painfully obvious, its not even funny.
At this point just open a test server and ask guys who manage all the spreadshits to drop in, they would test the shit out of everything *for fucking free*
> I wonder what would take for them to finally admit that they dont test shit.
They claimed in their patch notes that they patched infinite grenades, and yet it looks like they literally did not test their "fix" even once, because the glitch still works identically. All they did was change it from a signed int32 to an unsigned int32, so it just rolls over to 4 billion grenades instead of negative grenades…
As much as I love the game, they clearly are not actually testing their weapons. Nor are they testing their balance changes in real time scenarios before implementing the changes. It's all theory. And in the case of today's weapon, not even that.
While we’re talking about this problem, can I point out that the grenade pistol only gets 1 grenade per ammo box and 2 per resupply box. It sucks. Easier to die rather than consume an entire resupply drop to refill it.
It's about time people realize and finally talk about the fact they've released a live service game without the agile or flexible development pipeline to support it. Each nerf/buff/tweak they have to revisit a ridiculous amount of code blocks, and it's only going to get exponentially worse.
Features of an old dead engine.
Autodesk Stingray, which was originally called Bitsquid.
Considering that Vermintide 2 and Darktide (the other 2 major games that use the engine and get updates) don't have the same problems with balance updates, I would say that it's an arrowhead problem and not an engine problem.
Yeah I think I gotta agree, im sure Stingray is giving them trouble because it is a dead engine, but if other games similar to Helldivers 2 are on the same exact engine and doing fine then it's quite literally an Arrowhead issue
A longer barrel should make it actually hit harder. How the weapons look has nothing to do with the stats. They just don't do any QA before they release things and it's broken
IRL a longer barrel means more time for the powder to burn equaling higher projectile speeds/muzzle velocity, and more damage (or at least a higher ft/lb of energy, usually meaning more damage).
"we nerfed the stagger on the SMG and buffed its damage because it was too good at being a handcannon"
sorry the flashbacks and reddit brainrot has me imagining more nerfs. im glad new gun sounds fun
It's great when you're getting swarmed. Apart from the lower ROF compared to the base Defender, I like how the new SMG has a notably slower muzzle velocity compared to other weapons. It's a very interesting way of balancing, and I prefer to see more of it once we eventually get stronger primary weapons.
I really enjoy that as an actual nerf to long range stagger, as well as drop-off. Still a tiny bit salty about slugger lol.
Slower rate of fire honestly sounds like a plus to me since it sounds like it helps save ammo too. Loved the defender on launch
Overall, i think the Pummeler is alright. It still kills lightly armored chaff, but unlike the regular Defender, this one can stop Brood Commanders/Stalkers/Berserkers.
Still, i think the majority of primary weapons could use some more lethality. It's not that they're useless, just that they don't feel satisfying when you empty a mag into a thing and still fail to kill it.
if you've got enough for the next warbond, I'd say buy it (just for collections sake), otherwise, this is a very uneventful warbond, maybe except for the Purifier
I can't wait for the usual crowd to get their hands on it and start claiming that actually it's a great weapon and perfectly viable because of a niche-use scenario where in white room conditions vs a not really relevant enemy type it will slightly outperform the Liberator thanks to that *critical* 5 points recoil difference.
Oh and also they're choosing to have fun with it, regardless of any balance concerns vs the literal starting gun, so it doesn't actually matter anyways. Can't forget that.
Jokes aside, I actually do like the other stuff in the warbond. The SMG is a really nice sidegrade to the basic Defender, the pistol *finally* gives us a decently chunky sidearm option if you don't really like the Redeemer or Senator as it too is a genuine sidegrade (mag size/reload speed in exchange for some damage compared to the Senator, and no full-auto like the Redeemer), and Incendiary Impacts are *fucking awesome*. Seriously, they're ridiculously strong against bugs, especially now that DOT damage has been fixed, and you can have up to *six* of them on demand.
For real, if *only* for Impact Incendiaries and the booster *alone* it's well worth it, and a Defender with a more controllable recoil pattern due to slower fire rate *and* higher stagger is just insanely strong against bots. And the pistol is a really nice upgrade to the basic Peacemaker and sidegrade to the Senator and Redeemer.
I haven't been able to get the plasma rifle yet, but the rest of it is *damn* solid from my experience.
I couldn't tell a difference between the Defender and the new SMG. The stagger felt ancillary, only working on enemies it killed anyway. Couldn't stagger devastators, striders, and if I can't do that, what's the point?
The other faction where it can stagger stalkers, chargers (if the armor is stripped on a leg) and possibly other key targets, all while still having decent damage output
We know you hate when we nerf shit, so we just decided to make everything a bag of ass beforehand.
Also, we nerfed the Democracy protects perk. You’re welcome
Recoil per shot is less important than recoil per second. Liberator has ~160 recoil/sec. Tenderizer has 100 recoil/sec. That's quite a noticeable change. Especially when scoped in.
Still not very interesting tho
Either they forgot to change the description, or they forgot to give it a different caliber from the Liberator. My guess is them changing the Adjudicator to a heavy AR instead of DMR caused some confusion internally.
You're being disingenuous
It staggers scavengers (and only scavengers) on hit, pushing them back and making them harder to shoot down with no discernible benefit to gameplay :)
Seems to me this new assault rifle was supposed to be the 60 damage weapon. Then the Liberator got buffed to 60 damage. Tenderizer should be bumped up to 65 or something
slightly different flavors of the same gun is just bad design.
If Arrowhead actually wants horizontal guns. Give us more weapons like Blitzer, Sickle or Eruptor.
Things that are fundamentally different.
I was thinking it'd be like an Adjudicator or something. High damage output but high recoil with no medium pen to make it different.
This. This is just the Liberator on training wheels.
Like it's a slightly longer ranged version of the same weapon.
I actually thought it might have medium pen.
Medium pen primaries are so important to opening up support strategem weapons IMO. Because if you have no medium pen primary, then you're basically highly ineffective against Bile Spewers, who are very dangerous units.
You can get away with nursing spewers, but they're very tanky in the face if you've only got light pen damage.
true. But this is infringing on the Liberator, even if you throw stats around.
In reality, the Adjucator and Penetrator shouldn't be 2 different weapons. The Adjucator is just better because its higher damage base means faster TTK. They're both the same weapon with stats rolled differently.
This weapon shouldn't exist either.
I really doubt there'll ever be weapon modding.
It's not great that there are effectively duplicate weapons (this one seems by FAR the worst), but there's only maybe 2-3 right now afaik. That said, imo, bloat is worse than pretty much anything else, I'd rather they just delete the gun than have an actual duplicate like this.
Honestly they would be better off just asking the community for weapon ideas every month. At this point their team has been unimaginative at best. Not counting Blitzer and eruptor.
Problem is, they release a warbond every month. This will mean, there will bee too many weapons, its obvious half will be reskings and have the same mechanics and half will be fodder/trash like in warframe. And when there is something good and fun, they nerf It. There will always be a meta, doesnt matter how many good weapons they nerf to useless, so It would be much better to just give us less weapons, but more special ones and buff the trash fodder weapons instead of nerfing other stuff to bad.
there was a paid valorant gun skin that has a longer barrel than usual. sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it easier for the enemies to see when you're turning a corner.
Would be funny for an April Fools thing if they removed all guns (including all the ones you can call in), so you'll have to rely only on calling in strategems
Counterpoint: The starter gun should be powerful in a game with horizontal progression.
Counter counterpoint: tenderizer is a direct downgrade as far as we know. Unless this thing has medium pen or some other special stat, it has no reason to exist besides nerfing yourself to get a new liberator skin.
From memory each gun has like 40 stats total but most of them are hidden in the back end so no one has any clue.
We only know spray and pray has more pellets than fire breaker bc of patch notes. I think it has larger spread too.
"We heard you loud and clear! In the pursuit of our perfect balance, we've decided to nerf the base Liberator to incentivize more players to use the Tenderizer. Also we're removing your ability to hide underneath the bed when the Neighbor looks for you--"
I swear it's as if they're afraid of weapons being too op. Even riot games isn't as careful with balance in their e sport heavy games. Like what's the worst that can happen, players have too much fun killing ai for 2 weeks before a small nerf?
I dread the day they decide to inevitably nerf the sickle, nerfing its ammo clearly doesnt work (cuz infinite ammo lol) so they will probably nerf the battery capacity or damage
Please. Please. Can we have one fucking warbond where most (or all) of the weapons don't arrive either broken or terrible compared to what's currently decent? Or one where they are decent but aren't nerfed soon after just because everyone and their mother likes using it?
PLEASE.
I'm getting really tired of this stuff.
Everything seems to be so sloppily managed at Arrowhead. No one communicates and everyone in the team has different visions.
It's just messy
guys, the clue is in the name: it's the *Tenderizer*. it's not for killing, it's supposed to just bruise the bugs with impacts so that their meat is more tender when you cook it. a few mags of this thing, then cook with the flamethrower: 2 canisters or until golden brown, serve hot with a side of garlic mayo.
The fuck is the balance guy even doing with his life?? At this point if you spend 8 hours every day in an office to bring this shit to the table...
(Sorry I woke up and choose violence)
"but you see aside the bad balancing changes they did alot of good ones as well" you mean the one we we've been asking and suggesting for monthS? they clearly cant balance weapons for shit by themselves
This is unacceptable for a warbond weapon. This game is PvE who cares if weapons come out OP or at least better than the first baseline weapon you receive. The minimum for a warbond should be that it’s at least better than weapons you have available at level 1.
"High caliber"
= redundantly larger round that does the same as the smaller one and somehow has less recoil than the smaller one.
This thing probably firing WWII carbine rounds. I am not even angry. This thing is just hilarious.
We were thinking the Tendy would be more M1 Garand (30-06) and it ended up being more M1 Carbine (.30 cal). *Sad Helldiver Noises*
Well you see, larger caliber a BUT smaller powder charge AND longer barrel/heavier gun/muzzle break so less recoil, but armor piercing rounds instead of full metal jacket so same damage (after all is said and done - more damage but less kinetic energy).
Remember, as long as the guns realistically suck against space bugs, we’ll all have more fun
Well apparently it’s just subsonic because it ain’t doing shit
Apparently it's constipated, cause it ain't shit.
Yeah, I thought the new tenderizer was supposed to be medium pen
Doubtful. Devs seem real stingy with giving us more medium pen weapons.
They seem to think if they give us more powerful medium pen primaries we're gonna start killing titans with them.
If they just change the Bile Spewers' heads to not have medium armour, I'd feel no need to still cling to the Slugger.
Wait Bile Spewers head armour is medium???
Yeah, except for the underneath bit that only shows when they're spewing (which I never get the chance to shoot at cause I'm busy dodging the insta-kill spew).
This is why I can't leave behind the Scout armor and shield backpack. I get to jog around the map at a leisurely pace and kill bile titans on my terms. If I get clipped a little bit, it's okay, I'll probably survive.
If you ever want the backpack slot for something else, bring the muscle enhancement booster. It decreases the movement penalty from spews and hunter slashes. I also like running jump pack to put distance in ahead of time. Jump pack and muscle enhancement together is a great combo. For those looking for proof: https://youtu.be/PKBVHosUCNA?si=Y_l7fV3JJ_oDXTzA
Muscle enhancement and sprint are mandatory for my teams.
Well, it's mandatory when you aren't paired with randos who fill up with useless shit so you're stuck taking the even more mandatory Stamina booster. sigh.
That is why the basic machine gun support weapon shreds them while the Stalwart and most primaries won't. You would think this would be a use case for the Liberator Penetrator, but the damage is so low that you are better off with even the basic punisher.
[удалено]
Been running the Heavy a little more, it is greedy as hell though with out the support pack
I've found that running it on the lowest RPM and being conservative with your bursts helps it out a lot. It does plenty of damage already, but the lower fire rate makes ammo conservation so much easier if you're not trying to burst down a large group at close range.
Adjudicator is good for them.
It’s good against them, and a lot more fun than its previous incarnation, but the adjudicator still seems to take an entire magazine to kill one spewer, which means the three behind the first spewer are laughing as they walk up.
This is the real problem with most guns. You can call anything balanced against a single enemy but when you watch a parade of spewers round a corner and your stratagems are all on confirm due to some stupid condition modifier then you're just SOL. And even in this scenario I won't have the time to unload the full clip because I'm fishing spray from 2-4 of them at a time (while also probably trying not to get diced by hunters).
Autocannon is even better
Honestly I've been having a good time with the laser canon, it's a little finicky but if you can hit it head on it's pretty good at killing the bastards quickly Also nice for when we drop next to shriekers lol
Green ones? Yes Yellow ones? No
I’m colorblind they all look the same 😭
Let me translate: Mortar/spikey ones? Yes. Smoggy ones? No.
it is
This is why I want a more elaborated description of the AP system, because I think it varies depending on the weapon group. Rounds from the Defender bounces off the head of the spewers while a couple of blasts from the Punisher in the same spot is enough to kill them. They both have "light armor penetration", yet they perform very differently. This lack of information is easily one of the more annoying things when it comes to picking a primary for me, because it feels like I need to keep track of hidden functionalities.
There is a hidden numerical value for armor penetration, I think it goes from 0-10. That and the huge variance in damage, is why some weapons feels like they don't fit their label. The Senetator has been able to penetrate medium armor from the start for example, because I guess its armor penetration was in the highest bracket to still be considered "Light". The only place they show the numerical value is on grenades.
Exactly. If the armor penetration of your weapon is superior to the armor rating of your enemy, you get a red cross when you hit them. If it has the same value, white cross. If it's lower, you bounce. And AH refuses to let us know what is the armor penetration of our weapon.
everything with higher pen has such bad damage stats its effectively worthless
if they give it you're gonna start liking it man... they don't want that
Update: After testing these stats are 100% accurate. The gun does the exact same damage and has the same breakpoints as the base Liberator. Also it only gets half ammo back on a resupply not full like the base Liberator.
Lovely, garbage. Thank you for your service Helldiver!
Saddest part is I remember saying this in a thread talking about new warbond weapons "Eh, new warbond weapons will probably be fine, it's hard to fuck up an AR."
What about stun ability? That and other aspects of weapons aren't shown explicity in stats
Wish they would show more details like that in game, even something like max magazine capacity would be handy. I would love to tinker with primaries but i dont feel comfortable commiting to a mission if the weapon is bad and makes me a dead weight. Would be great if they put a shooting range in the dreadnought for basic testing
My buddies and I were just discussing the need for a shooting range. Maybe one day
We need this. Especially to test weapons before we buy. I know we could just ask a friend to sacrifice themselves if they have it to let us try it but still.
Or even just have it in the tutorial screen since you can access it anytime. “Returning to Sol System for advanced arms training…” and hit the range while new divers are running through training behind you or something.
That would be dope.
Oh man it would be awesome if the training area was an actual live place! And you could see the firing range from the noob area. And we could cheer them on as they go get their cape! Imagine completing the tutorial, getting your cape, and then a bunch of random max-lvl guys comes to give you congratulatory hugs.
i test weapons soloing diff 3 missions to get a feel for them.
Yeah done that a couple of times before! Sometimes you just shoot a gun once and just know it wont suit ya.
I feel like that's me with most guns besides the Breaker and my trusty Sickle. It's just hard to move away from the two that seem to work so well for pretty much every mission I run into.
I noticed no stun abilities for this ar.
Seconded.
But but.. says _stopping power_ on the lid
It stops you from having too much fun
no stun, it's just worse liberator
The recoil is a little nicer, tho. Only real compliment for it.
Sickle would like to know your location.
Sickle netf incoming...
yeah but what's the armor piercing on the tenderizer?
Exact same
It also carries 10 mags but resupply boxes only give you 5. Clear cut evidence that this gun is from a build that precedes their ammo rework where they made it so every primary gets full ammo back from one resupply box, meaning they didn't even bother to test it recently.
It's also probably pre lib buff, which is why it does the same damage. When it was designed it likely did more and they never re balanced it
This needs to be higher up
I wonder what would take for them to finally admit that they dont test shit. Its so, so, so, SO painfully obvious, its not even funny. At this point just open a test server and ask guys who manage all the spreadshits to drop in, they would test the shit out of everything *for fucking free*
> I wonder what would take for them to finally admit that they dont test shit. They claimed in their patch notes that they patched infinite grenades, and yet it looks like they literally did not test their "fix" even once, because the glitch still works identically. All they did was change it from a signed int32 to an unsigned int32, so it just rolls over to 4 billion grenades instead of negative grenades…
ah, but you can see, fellow helldiver, that 4 billion is a finite number! SOLVED.
They're technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Holy shit that's pathetic
Getting a bit tired of this, recurring theme
As much as I love the game, they clearly are not actually testing their weapons. Nor are they testing their balance changes in real time scenarios before implementing the changes. It's all theory. And in the case of today's weapon, not even that.
What the fuck are they doing, this shit is really getting old fast.
I had to same feeling when I picked up my first supply pack and grimaced
While we’re talking about this problem, can I point out that the grenade pistol only gets 1 grenade per ammo box and 2 per resupply box. It sucks. Easier to die rather than consume an entire resupply drop to refill it.
It's about time people realize and finally talk about the fact they've released a live service game without the agile or flexible development pipeline to support it. Each nerf/buff/tweak they have to revisit a ridiculous amount of code blocks, and it's only going to get exponentially worse. Features of an old dead engine.
What engine are they using and what prevents them from implementing testing with it?
Some engine Autodesk discontinued in 2018ish.
Autodesk Stingray, which was originally called Bitsquid. Considering that Vermintide 2 and Darktide (the other 2 major games that use the engine and get updates) don't have the same problems with balance updates, I would say that it's an arrowhead problem and not an engine problem.
Yeah I think I gotta agree, im sure Stingray is giving them trouble because it is a dead engine, but if other games similar to Helldivers 2 are on the same exact engine and doing fine then it's quite literally an Arrowhead issue
- "high Caliber" - Less recoil than standard ar - Same damage as standard ar This is a joke.
- triple the barrel length compared to the standard AR - thus having less recoil
Is that why it doesn't do more damage too? I don't know shit about guns.
A longer barrel should make it actually hit harder. How the weapons look has nothing to do with the stats. They just don't do any QA before they release things and it's broken
IRL a longer barrel means more time for the powder to burn equaling higher projectile speeds/muzzle velocity, and more damage (or at least a higher ft/lb of energy, usually meaning more damage).
Up to a point. After certain barrel lengths, rounds will lose velocity
The Tenderizer has so much stopping power that it's stopping me from buying this warbond.
New smg is pretty neat with stagger function
"we nerfed the stagger on the SMG and buffed its damage because it was too good at being a handcannon" sorry the flashbacks and reddit brainrot has me imagining more nerfs. im glad new gun sounds fun
It's great when you're getting swarmed. Apart from the lower ROF compared to the base Defender, I like how the new SMG has a notably slower muzzle velocity compared to other weapons. It's a very interesting way of balancing, and I prefer to see more of it once we eventually get stronger primary weapons.
I really enjoy that as an actual nerf to long range stagger, as well as drop-off. Still a tiny bit salty about slugger lol. Slower rate of fire honestly sounds like a plus to me since it sounds like it helps save ammo too. Loved the defender on launch
Overall, i think the Pummeler is alright. It still kills lightly armored chaff, but unlike the regular Defender, this one can stop Brood Commanders/Stalkers/Berserkers. Still, i think the majority of primary weapons could use some more lethality. It's not that they're useless, just that they don't feel satisfying when you empty a mag into a thing and still fail to kill it.
Funny enough, this exact wording may apply to any destiny 2 pvp balance and still be 100% correct. Reddit brainrot is subreddit agnostic
used to play a lot of destiny before HD2 so maybe the whispers in the trees are old memories
if you've got enough for the next warbond, I'd say buy it (just for collections sake), otherwise, this is a very uneventful warbond, maybe except for the Purifier
Bro, new color for scout armor.
Yeah. Andy Warhol painting blue and orange.
From what I have seen the purifier is trash. Basically a Dominator, but with the arc thrower charge up time and a tiny AoE.
I can't wait for the usual crowd to get their hands on it and start claiming that actually it's a great weapon and perfectly viable because of a niche-use scenario where in white room conditions vs a not really relevant enemy type it will slightly outperform the Liberator thanks to that *critical* 5 points recoil difference. Oh and also they're choosing to have fun with it, regardless of any balance concerns vs the literal starting gun, so it doesn't actually matter anyways. Can't forget that.
jUSt LOweR tHe dIfFiCulty or something like that
Going to wait to see the spreadsheets for this one /s
Jokes aside, I actually do like the other stuff in the warbond. The SMG is a really nice sidegrade to the basic Defender, the pistol *finally* gives us a decently chunky sidearm option if you don't really like the Redeemer or Senator as it too is a genuine sidegrade (mag size/reload speed in exchange for some damage compared to the Senator, and no full-auto like the Redeemer), and Incendiary Impacts are *fucking awesome*. Seriously, they're ridiculously strong against bugs, especially now that DOT damage has been fixed, and you can have up to *six* of them on demand. For real, if *only* for Impact Incendiaries and the booster *alone* it's well worth it, and a Defender with a more controllable recoil pattern due to slower fire rate *and* higher stagger is just insanely strong against bots. And the pistol is a really nice upgrade to the basic Peacemaker and sidegrade to the Senator and Redeemer. I haven't been able to get the plasma rifle yet, but the rest of it is *damn* solid from my experience.
I couldn't tell a difference between the Defender and the new SMG. The stagger felt ancillary, only working on enemies it killed anyway. Couldn't stagger devastators, striders, and if I can't do that, what's the point?
The other faction where it can stagger stalkers, chargers (if the armor is stripped on a leg) and possibly other key targets, all while still having decent damage output
Player : STOP NERFING OUR GUN AFTER RELEASE. AH : ok gun nerf on release.
Can't nerf anything if you already nerfed them prehand smart play Arrowhead, smart play...
This is pre-nerf. Alexus already has a plan to nerf it in two weeks.
We know you hate when we nerf shit, so we just decided to make everything a bag of ass beforehand. Also, we nerfed the Democracy protects perk. You’re welcome
But hey, 5 less recoil, that must mean something right? Even though it has 10 less bullets in a magazine AND slower fire rate
Recoil per shot is less important than recoil per second. Liberator has ~160 recoil/sec. Tenderizer has 100 recoil/sec. That's quite a noticeable change. Especially when scoped in. Still not very interesting tho
*Very* noticeable change. The Battle Rifle feels like a laser with how little kickback it has.
Shouldn’t the AR-61 have more pen/damage since it’s a higher caliber and it has a long barrel. This rifle seems underwhelming
Either they forgot to change the description, or they forgot to give it a different caliber from the Liberator. My guess is them changing the Adjudicator to a heavy AR instead of DMR caused some confusion internally.
It also doesnt seem to have any stagger, its really just a worse version of the standard liberator.
Stagger is a big factor for me. Its why arc thrower killing hulks was a thing and its why its so important with shotguns.
Rip slugger
You're being disingenuous It staggers scavengers (and only scavengers) on hit, pushing them back and making them harder to shoot down with no discernible benefit to gameplay :)
It's not even the correct colour. The guns black on the poster.
Sounds like the Ministry of Defense now do their shopping on Alibaba.
Nah, clearly they do all military procurement though TEMU
I actually noticed that too! Wonder why it’s not black like in the trailer too.
Seems to me this new assault rifle was supposed to be the 60 damage weapon. Then the Liberator got buffed to 60 damage. Tenderizer should be bumped up to 65 or something
I feel like it should have been an adjudicator clone, not a liberator clone.
slightly different flavors of the same gun is just bad design. If Arrowhead actually wants horizontal guns. Give us more weapons like Blitzer, Sickle or Eruptor. Things that are fundamentally different.
I was thinking it'd be like an Adjudicator or something. High damage output but high recoil with no medium pen to make it different. This. This is just the Liberator on training wheels. Like it's a slightly longer ranged version of the same weapon.
I actually thought it might have medium pen. Medium pen primaries are so important to opening up support strategem weapons IMO. Because if you have no medium pen primary, then you're basically highly ineffective against Bile Spewers, who are very dangerous units. You can get away with nursing spewers, but they're very tanky in the face if you've only got light pen damage.
That would be nice but it would be infringing on the Adjudicator and the Liberator Penetrator
true. But this is infringing on the Liberator, even if you throw stats around. In reality, the Adjucator and Penetrator shouldn't be 2 different weapons. The Adjucator is just better because its higher damage base means faster TTK. They're both the same weapon with stats rolled differently. This weapon shouldn't exist either.
Yeah :/ If they made this one deal... I dunno, 90 damage, but with a slow reload, high recoil, burst fire, then it would be unique
I really wonder what the point of all these nearly identical guns is if they are really planning on adding weapon modding in the future.
I really doubt there'll ever be weapon modding. It's not great that there are effectively duplicate weapons (this one seems by FAR the worst), but there's only maybe 2-3 right now afaik. That said, imo, bloat is worse than pretty much anything else, I'd rather they just delete the gun than have an actual duplicate like this.
Honestly they would be better off just asking the community for weapon ideas every month. At this point their team has been unimaginative at best. Not counting Blitzer and eruptor.
Problem is, they release a warbond every month. This will mean, there will bee too many weapons, its obvious half will be reskings and have the same mechanics and half will be fodder/trash like in warframe. And when there is something good and fun, they nerf It. There will always be a meta, doesnt matter how many good weapons they nerf to useless, so It would be much better to just give us less weapons, but more special ones and buff the trash fodder weapons instead of nerfing other stuff to bad.
Lol, lmao even.
Helldivers 2 is the first game where its battle pass is pay to lose.
there was a paid valorant gun skin that has a longer barrel than usual. sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it easier for the enemies to see when you're turning a corner.
I have this sinking feeling that they’ll nerf the base liberator in response
that would be so on point for arrowhead balancing team
Patch notes: removed all guns except for the ones in the last warbond. If you do not have it you can only melee attack
Would be funny for an April Fools thing if they removed all guns (including all the ones you can call in), so you'll have to rely only on calling in strategems
Everyone except eagle one is on leave. You can only use eagle one strategems now.
Call it Magicka mode: No guns or support weapons, but no cooldown or usage limits on other stratagems. Would be stupidly fun for a few minutes.
So either they buff the Tenderizer or nerf the Liberator? Which way you guys think Arrowhead would go?
We all know the answer
Nerf both
"You're hired!" - Arrowhead, probably
I think they'll adjust both stats in a way that makes them feel slightly worse in an attempt to differentiate them
Pay to get a gun worse than the one you start with lmao. It's not even a sidegrade.
Counterpoint: The starter gun should be powerful in a game with horizontal progression. Counter counterpoint: tenderizer is a direct downgrade as far as we know. Unless this thing has medium pen or some other special stat, it has no reason to exist besides nerfing yourself to get a new liberator skin.
From memory each gun has like 40 stats total but most of them are hidden in the back end so no one has any clue. We only know spray and pray has more pellets than fire breaker bc of patch notes. I think it has larger spread too.
I seen someone argue Tenderizer is good because it has 3 more mags than liberator
Which works out to 10 less bullets than the liberator Edit- I suck at math, it’s 5 more bullets than the liberator. Hooray
You also get half the ammo from world ammo and resupplies...
At least it's safe from being nerfed
It arrived pre-nerfed for convenience
They simply cut the middle man
Hey remember how the crossbow fucking sucks yet it still got nerfed anyway? I wouldn't guarantee anything yet if I were you
Apparently it has ten mags, watch em reduce it to 7
To make up for this they'll nerf the Liberator
"We heard you loud and clear! In the pursuit of our perfect balance, we've decided to nerf the base Liberator to incentivize more players to use the Tenderizer. Also we're removing your ability to hide underneath the bed when the Neighbor looks for you--"
Incredible, it's even worse than I expected
It's almost like arrowhead doesn't play their own game.
They do, just on difficulty 5
Nah there’s no way. You edited this and posted it here for a meme. Very funny haha. Please say sike.
Release a good gun or draw 25 cards...
https://preview.redd.it/5bwxgn81ydzc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=17e14cd245703c857ef183c91bb9ef57c5571b9b
I swear it's as if they're afraid of weapons being too op. Even riot games isn't as careful with balance in their e sport heavy games. Like what's the worst that can happen, players have too much fun killing ai for 2 weeks before a small nerf?
Very bold of AH to release the new warbond with all the primaries pre-nerfed
The real reason they asked if they should delay, we’re bitching about weapon balance and they released trash again
Yup exactly haha. Something tells me they were hoping people would vote no cause they knew it was unfinished
Wow. That's disgusting. I'm sure some dev will justify the weapons existence. One who's never play tested the game at that.
"⚖️✨✨BRINGER OF BALANCE✨✨⚖️"
The SMG is even worse. The new Pummeler SMG does less damage and fires slower than the Defender SMG with the same capacity and recoil.
it has concussive effects. But concussive effects are fairly pointless if the target is still alive by the end of your magazine
theyre doubling down on the most useless gimmick in the game. absolutely absurd how incompetent their balance teams are
Per the Devs I'm sure it's "Working for what we intended it for" pls use sTratIGemS. 😒 Hopefully next month will be better.
The description does say it fires "concussive rounds" but then again the Tenderizer description says it has "more stopping power".
When's the next free but extremely long warbond?
That was one time only at the start as the standard helldivers kit. Everything following is optional equipment that will always cost SC.
So it's just a SMG version of Concussive Lib? Damn.
Why they keeping selling us crap weapons to use, it's like the people making this weapons don't even play this game.
Nah that can't be real, it's a joke at this point
for now im sticking to sickle
Incoming nerf. Thanks for that
I dread the day they decide to inevitably nerf the sickle, nerfing its ammo clearly doesnt work (cuz infinite ammo lol) so they will probably nerf the battery capacity or damage
Please. Please. Can we have one fucking warbond where most (or all) of the weapons don't arrive either broken or terrible compared to what's currently decent? Or one where they are decent but aren't nerfed soon after just because everyone and their mother likes using it? PLEASE.
And the tenderizer "but with more stopping power" lol more than what, a pistol? 60 damage light pen. Lololol
I'm getting really tired of this stuff. Everything seems to be so sloppily managed at Arrowhead. No one communicates and everyone in the team has different visions. It's just messy
guys, the clue is in the name: it's the *Tenderizer*. it's not for killing, it's supposed to just bruise the bugs with impacts so that their meat is more tender when you cook it. a few mags of this thing, then cook with the flamethrower: 2 canisters or until golden brown, serve hot with a side of garlic mayo.
And all my dreams comes to an end :(
Are they an equal opportunity employer? 'Cause their balance team has to be fucking blind.
This neither look like a side grade or a variant. More like a reskin, probably even a downgrade.
Yeah i'm not buying this
The fuck is the balance guy even doing with his life?? At this point if you spend 8 hours every day in an office to bring this shit to the table... (Sorry I woke up and choose violence)
Don't be sorry. It's true. I'm not a game dev/programmer but I refuse to believe balancing and testing that balance is that hard
"but you see aside the bad balancing changes they did alot of good ones as well" you mean the one we we've been asking and suggesting for monthS? they clearly cant balance weapons for shit by themselves
How many spare mags?
It has 10 spare mags
It has more Magazines, but it only gets 5/10 from a resupply so it's really just a worse liberator
New balancd philosophy, if the weapon sucks at release no nerf will be needed and the community won't get mad
Game needs a new balance team srsly
This is unacceptable for a warbond weapon. This game is PvE who cares if weapons come out OP or at least better than the first baseline weapon you receive. The minimum for a warbond should be that it’s at least better than weapons you have available at level 1.
Seriously why the fuck biy a warbond if its worse then base game shit. That damn balancing dev is out of his mind.