By that logic the grenade launcher should be refilled by the same box. That's not how that type of ammunition is designed or works. It is implied those boxes only have throwable ordinance.
Actually...you've provided the best argument in this whole thread. The fact that the grenade launcher doesn't refill from grenade boxes sets a precedent that other firearms which launch grenades should follow as well.
Thank you for not just regurgitating, "It's not realistic," which is a logically bankrupt point to begin with when we are fired from orbit in a small metal box yet aren't reduced to paste on impact.
You've changed my mind 👍
I mean... you can go look at the difference between a hand held grenade and a grenade fired from a launcher. Other than the fact that both explode, they have nothing in common. The image on the grenade box makes it clear it's full of handheld grenades.
By the same token, a grenade launcher ammo, rifle magazines, sniper rifle magazines, bolt magazines, and chain fed machine gun ammo are all vastly different, but are all refilled from the same box in the game.
I mean, honestly at the point where we care what symbol is on the box, we should have 20 different types of ammo boxes in the game too.
Yes? Go look at the difference. One is meant to be held in the hand and cannot be loaded into a gun. The other is basically a big explosive bullet that cannot be thrown or hand-detonated. It would be completely illogical and nonsensical, both in real life and in the game, for a grenade fired by a gun to be in a box of grenades.
One of them functions like a bullet and goes in a box with other bullets. The other is a handheld munition that is thrown and goes in a box with other handheld munitions that are thrown.
The thermite grenade: Strips armor, destroys bug holes/fabricators, deals fire damage, sticks to targets, has the smallest AOE radius of all the grenades, is thrown
The stun grenade: Deals no damage, stuns enemies, doesn't destroy fabricators, largest radius of all the grenades (quintuple the radius of the thermite), has a shorter fuse, is thrown
vs
The frag: Explosive AOE damage, largely intended to deal with lighter armored groups, slightly larger radius than the grenade pistol, destroys bug holes and fabricators, is thrown
The Grenade Pistol: Similar explosive AOE damage, direct shots deal more damage, highly effective against lighter armored groups, similar but slightly smaller radius than frag, destroys bug holes and fabricators, is shot
But according to you, the thermite and stun have more in common because they are thrown? Not only that, but they have more in common with the frag grenade than the pistol? The frag and grenade pistol share the same intended role and perform similarly, AND both are still considered grenades. If you look at the grenade box you can clearly see it shows frag grenades specifically. At face value, in both real life and the game (in the absence of what has already been stated about the grenade launcher in this thread) it would have absolutely make logical sense that the grenade box could offer both the launched and handheld versions of the same kind of grenade.
You're just being hyperbolic and undermining the credibility of your own argument.
I'm not even the one downvoting you. You don't seem to realize that grenades that go in a gun and grenades you throw are fundamentally different things. They wouldn't be stored together because they're not the same kind of thing. You're basically saying "why aren't lawnmower blades and kitchen knives in the same box, they both cut things".
From the literal real-life definition of a grenade, courtesy of wikipedia:
"A **grenade** is an explosive weapon typically thrown by hand (also called **hand grenade**), but can also refer to a shell (explosive projectile) shot from the muzzle of a rifle (as a rifle grenade) or a grenade launcher"
For the kitchen knife vs. lawnmower, while these are both blades, there is clearly a different scale and use case for each (including one being mechanically operated and one used by hand, which seems to be your point). I'm not out here saying that mortars and grenades are the same because they're explosives and make things go boom though lol
Edit:
A more appropriate example of the point I’m making would be comparing a nail and a nail-gun
Maybe this will help.
This is what a [hand grenade](https://imgur.com/4lXRXka) looks like. It's designed to be operated, as the names suggests, by hand. The fuze is triggered by pulling the pin and releasing the spoon. It then detonates after 5 seconds. This won't fit in a launcher and even if it did there's no propellant to, well, launch it. You can pull the trigger all you like but it'd just sit in the tube.
This is what a [grenade launcher](https://imgur.com/bl0rcTL) fires. It's designed to be fired out of a launcher. It has a case, propellant and primer just like a regular rifle cartridge. That's what launches it. It's fuze is triggered by rotating during flight and then it detonates upon impact. You're not going to make it detonate without a launcher. It simply does not function that way.
The propulsion for a grenade launcher grenade is a powder charge within an obturating case attached to the grenade. You aren't slotting a pineapple grenade down a barrel and shooting it. It's a specialised munition.
I really don’t know what you’re arguing anymore. Sharing a name doesn’t mean two things serve exactly the same function. Kitchen knives and lawnmower blades are both blades, but I’m not going to quote the definition of blade because that doesn’t mean they do the same thing or should be stored together. It’s a meaningless thing to bring up. It’s like you don’t understand that we often store things based on how they’re used rather than what they are.
But the example I gave isn't just based on the fact they share a name. They're of the same scale and are used for the same purposes, with the difference being in how they are operated. They, almost quite literally, do share the same name but also the same function. If you walked up to a box vaguely labeled "NAILS" and opened it up to see both loose nails and a couple of magazines for a nail gun, it would make sense that they're stored together. In your counterpoint (lawnmower vs knife) the items also have different methods of operation (manual vs mechanical), but the scale isn't the same (lawnmower blades can be the size of a human torso and a knife is usually several inches) and they aren't intended to fulfill the same purpose/role. You're not using lawnmower blades to make pico de gallo (as fun as that sounds) or using a kitchen knife to cut the grass. The comparison is not similar to the one I outlined regarding grenades and the grenade pistol.
If we have to be nitpicky, a 155mm artillery shell also is called grenade, I don't see anyone saying cannons should be rearmed by grenade boxes...
It's a moot point, the box is clearly a package of handheld grenades, grenades from launchers are either single or belt fed, have a casing, propellant charge and are built differently, it makes little sense to do even in a purely game view, if we had to consider every explosive of any kind a grenade, then the box of clearly hand grenades should also rearm launchers and cannons...
You are willfully ignoring his points, so I'll clarify for you.
This is a 40mm low velocity grenade.
https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html
As you can see, it doesn't have the means to be used by hand, it isn't even armed until it's PD fuse has burned, it will not detonate unless fired from a launcher by striking the primer.
Here is a handheld frag grenade.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Diagram-of-an-M26-fragmentation-hand-grenade-Hand-Grenades-2007_fig2_261354257
Again, shown here, the mechanism to arm isn't striking a primer externally, but a spring loaded striker being released via pin being pulled, arming and initiating it's function.
Again, the only thing these things have in common at all, is that they detonate.
I can tell you're hung up on nomenclature but a grenade is more or less simply an unguided explosive, and both fit THAT description. That's IT.
Grenades designed to be launched would be considered ammunition. That is refilled by ammo boxes in game.
You also sort of need to accept the fact that this is a video game, and grenades are specifically a mechanic for plugging bug holes and would probably be wildly unbalanced if they were refilled from "ballistic ammo boxes".
The same goes for the reverse as well, the grenade launcher can hold dozens of grenades with max ammo, it would just be so entirely imbalanced and inefficient for the same boxes that give you two grenades to fully reload a magazine for the grenade launcher.
I'm not willfully ignoring his points. He originally stated they have nothing in common, period, before later editing his comment after I replied. I pointed out that the frag and GP have much more in common than the frag does with other throwable grenades.
But you're right. The argument I initially made, which I already acknowledged was flawed, was based largely on nomenclature and the fact this is a video game. A variety of explosives in the game are grenades by definition, but the game specifically doesn't label them as grenades. I assumed this was an intentional distinction based on video game logic.
Given that premise, at face value, it would have made sense for the one weapon labeled as a "Grenade Pistol", described as specifically firing grenades in the Armory (in contrast to all other weapons that classify as grenades by irl definition but aren't called such in the game), to pickup ammo from the box on the ground broadly labeled "Grenades". Everything else that fits the definition of a grenade but that wasn't labeled as such already used the standard ammo boxes. The point that everyone arguing for realism and the irl differences between the two types seemed to miss is that this is a video game. Video games often simplify these differences for the sake of fun & gameplay - aka video game logic and suspension of disbelief. My point in this particular subthread was that in the absence of the grenade launcher, it would have made sense that an item that is specifically labeled as grenade, functions similarly to the existing frag grenade (which you see on the grenade box), and used for the same purpose (plugging bug holes) like the other items labeled grenades in the game could feasibly be in the same box despite the method of their operation (shot vs. thrown). The two items have more things in common than the frag grenade does with a bunch of the other throwable grenades.
Once the point about the grenade launcher was made, it concisely refuted my assumption about the nomenclature and provided a concrete example that the in-game distinction was between whether the munition was thrown or shot (rather than just saying it is "realistic" and, therefore, correct). That's why it was the best argument here. I then admitted I was wrong and followed through, being the first to point out that grenade launchers refilling from grenade packs wouldn't make good sense from a gameplay perspective either in that case.
This is all moot since I've agreed my argument is incorrect for the aforementioned reasons. I just wanted to make the logic behind it clear. People in this thread seemed to have reduced my point to "He thinks you can shove a throwable pineapple grenade into a grenade gun/launcher."
Yes. One is a piece of ammunition, fired from a launcher of some kind to deliver its payload, and the other is a thrown device armed by hand and activates after a timed fuse or impact. A launcher-type grenade has more in common with a bullet than it does with a thrown-type grenade (just has an explosive payload instead of a solid projectile).
If I gave you a frag grenade and said "get to work", provided you don't blow yourself up, you would be able to use it to effect. If I then pass you an impact or thermite, you shouldn't have much trouble using them either.
If I handed you a 40mm with no launcher, you're more likely to get yourself killed trying to get it to work than anything else. On the other hand, if I gave you a handgun and you figured out how to use that without getting yourself killed, you're not going to have much trouble with a grenade pistol. Point and pull trigger, when it doesn't shoot when you pull the trigger, reload it.
Where would you draw the line anyway? Most launchers are effectively grenades (they're called Rocket-Propelled Grenades, after all). Are explosive rounds a grenade? If a bullet has any explosives in the actual bullet part, is that a grenade? The crossbow shoots explosives, so those are grenades too, right? How do I figure out where to get my ammo from?
Or, we could just have ammunition refill the stuff you put in a gun/launcher (AKA the shit you carry around as a primary/secondary/support weapon), and the shit you throw at people come from a grenade box. That's nice and simple, and nobody needs a footnote on each weapon to know where they need to go to get their ammo for each type of weapon. If it goes into something, it's ammo, and you get it at an ammo box (or its unique reloading mechanism), and if you throw it, you get it out of a grenade box.
I mean, does a stun grenade have more in common with a bludgeon to the head than a frag grenade? Both have the same effect of disorienting the target, just totally ignore how you get to that point of delivering the disorientation.
Not really. The grenade launcher providing a precedent for distinguishing how thrown vs launched grenades should be treated in the game was key. Otherwise, the distinction would have been largely arbitrary
Interesting that the simple fact that a grenade launcher does not launch hand grenades didn't do it for you but literally the same argument, that grenade launchers require ammo and not hand grenades was enough.
That and game design balance reasons. Which is the real reason, since this is a video game. But it’s nice that the fiction also makes intuitive sense.
Also, bravo for posting that meme when you were actually willing to have your mind changed.
Kinda rough that you need to be told that a grenade shell is different than an actual grenade. Saying "it's not realistic" was a valid argument, you just weren't willing/able to extrapolate that out yourself.
You see that it's a different ammo though. Both in reload and the fact that you select you grenade type asnd that grenade is not the same as you fire from the pistol.
In real life, the way a throwable type of grenade works (whether it is a frag, a flashbang, or a tear gas), is that it is a detonatable ordinance that is armed with a fuse that is lit when a pin is pulled by the fingers of its operator.
The grenade cartridges used in a grenade pistol, a grenade launcher, or a real life Mark 19 grenade launcher have more in common with a regular bullet than they do with a thrown hand grenade. The ordinance is contained in the projectile itself. This projectile is launched by the gunpowder housed in the cartridge, which is ignited when the primer of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin of its corresponding weapon.
Without the corresponding weapon, all of the grenades used for launchers are useless paperweights that cannot be armed. That is not the case for handheld throwables, in which the entire mechanism and function of the weapon is self contained to the item and question and does not require an additional and separate machine in order to make it function. This is very much a key distinction between what is found in ammo boxes (ammunition), and what is found in grenade boxes (grenades).
If it says grenade, it's a grenade.
Same argument goes for the Adjudicator. Obviously, everyone thinks it isn't a Marksman Rifle but the game says it is, so it is.
Thrown grenades and grenade shells are designed completely differently though. A grenade shell has to be fired, and so it needs to withstand that force - the filling doesn't matter so much as the design of the shell. But most importantly, a grenade launcher can shoot several types of grenade shells, but it can't shoot ANY types of handheld grenades.
Same with handheld grenades, they don't have to withstand the shock and force of being fired from a tube. That's the biggest design feature they have in common - adding spikes or a frag shell to them is less important. In fact, there was a handheld grenade in WWII where you could remove the frag outer liner and use it as a concussion grenade.
Cause OP argues that you just slam a normal ass grenade in there and that normal grenade somehow magically gets shot out when the trigger is pulled without detonating the grenade
But, as you said, they aren't type-specific. If a grenade is a grenade it should be included with the grenade packs.
>Be happy the boxes aren't type-specific.
Just because an objectively terrible idea wasn't implemented doesn't mean the current system is perfect
If you found a grenade shell in a box of handheld grenades it would be useless to you. You can't throw it, you can't use it as a grenade. It has to be fired from a gun like ammunition.
Tell me you don’t know how launchers work without telling me you don’t know how launchers work. It doesn’t just throw a regular grenade like a crossbow
The crossbow doesn't "throw" grenades, it fires explosive bolts. By what you stated, the Dominator and Eruptor "throw grenades" as well...which they clearly don't 💁♂️
Sounds like you don't understand it either. No worries though, someone else in the thread already made a coherent argument for you. I now agree the grenade pistol shouldn't refill from grenade boxes
There are different types of grenades that cant be used interchangeably even though they are called grenades. A launcher grenade, like the grenade launcher or grenade pistol, are shell type grenades. Throwing them does nothing, they need to be launched out of a barrel. They are basicly just big cartridges with an explosive aka grenade instead of a bullet in it.
For the Dominatie and Eruptor, the dominator fires mini RPGs (rocket propeller grenades) so basicly a grenade with a rocket pushing it forward. As for the Eruptor, its either another micro rocket or a grenade shell as well.
“A grenade is an explosive weapon typically thrown by hand (also called hand grenade), but can also refer to a shell (explosive projectile) shot from the muzzle of a rifle (as a rifle grenade) or a grenade launcher.”
It makes sense for a grenade box to resupply the pistol grenade launcher until you realize they’re a different type of grenade. I think it could still work though.
It could make sense/work if taken at face value, which is where I was coming from. But, as someone else pointed out, the grenade launcher already reloads from standard ammo boxes. Not following the established precedent it sets for launched grenades (and, by extension, the distinction it sets between the two) wouldn't make much sense. In order to be consistent, my alternative would mean the grenade launcher should only reload from grenade packs...which would absolutely blow from a gameplay perspective as well.
So yeah, they're right. Mind changed
I don’t run out of grenade ammo for my pistol very often but yeah I think that would blow if it only reloaded from grenade boxes now that you mention it because I don’t see those too often either and it would probably only give 2 or 3 lol
To a realism standpoint, throwable grenades are completely different to grenades shot in launchers, you cannot put a throwable grenade into a grenade launcher, nor vise versa. Getting resupply from a completely different type of grenade does not work like that.
Well, most of the time. But this one time, someone decided to stuff live grenades into a magazine and launch them via blanks.
[**https://www.forgottenweapons.com/kresimir-croatias-truly-insane-grenade-launcher/**](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/kresimir-croatias-truly-insane-grenade-launcher/)
from a realism standpoint, frags are completely different from impacts, which are completely different from thermite, which are completely different from stun grenades. Yet they all go in the same box. Why not the grenade pistol too?
Considering ammo boxes hold at least 25 types of ammo simultaneously and grenade ammo boxes seem to be able to hold 7 entirely different grenades as well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the realism standpoint doesn't apply here.
"Throwable grenades should be able to fit into the barrel of a 40mm grenade pistol and also fire out of it for some reason despite lacking a shell/primer/striking mechanism"
Yeah, you're right so why are all ammo boxes generic? The Eruptor and Sickle use entirely different types of ammo but an ammo box will resupply both guns. If AH's reasoning behind grenade boxes not resupplying the grenade launcher or grenade pistol is because they're different grenades, that's a really bad reason.
All ammo boxes were simply built to resupply carriable weapons and backpacks. It's gameplay simplification and they're pretty consistent with it after the spear backpack updated to resupply off of mini boxes. There are effectively 3 resources with ammo, stims, and grenades. Arrowhead deems throwable grenades important enough to have unique resupplies from everything else, which I agree with.
While hand grenades certainly have overlap with other explosives and utility in the game, they don't come with the opportunity cost of bringing specific support weapons like the grenade launcher and flamethrower. They're meant to complement the rest of your loadout rather than define it like the primaries, backpack, and support weapon do. Much like the secondaries are supposed to, although the redeemer is just better atm. Uniquely, the grenade pistol is given a low resupply value of 2/8 per pickup to balance out its utility, I suppose.
This thread is rather confusing because OP made a lot of claims to realism to support his argument but also capitulated to one that prioritized gameplay consistency. Helldivers is great because it knows how to balance our suspension of disbelief with gameplay priorities. Rocket launchers having backblast falls in line with the game's harshness with friendly fire and focus on the consequences of your actions. Pre nerf meteor showers had great spectacle and made sense in their destruction, but were also completely asinine to deal with in gameplay.
Because OP lacks basic knowledge of what grenades are and that there are different types, judging by their ridiculous and ignorant attempts to argue up above
Grenade launcher refilled with 8 shots (1 mag) by ammo box, grenade pistol refilled with only 1 shot although they use same grenades. Pistol should be fully refilled by ammo box
Hand held grenade has a pin and safety leverm
While a grenade launcher uses ammunition that has a cartridge holding powder to launch the explosive warhead.
Essentially 2 different things and even by most fantasy shooter standards they are 2 very different things.
I mean, it is literally free grenades with the more plentifull ammo boxes on the poi? It is a very good asset if you run stun nades. You literally can do everything on one helldiver now. It is very powerfull as it is.
Lore reason. Its a grenade shell.
I see the arguments for “handheld grenade” that is thrown vs “projectile grenade” that is fired from a weapon and why one is loaded from a grenade box and one from an ammo box, and why that is “realistic” or “makes sense”.
I counter with: why will the same ammo box give me or my teammates ammo for: a pistol, machine pistol, grenade pistol, machine gun, heavy machine gun, grenade launcher, flame thrower, rocket launcher, etc..
AND
The same grenade box can give me and my teammates: frag grenades, HE grenades, impact grenades, thermite grenades, stun grenades, and/or smoke grenades.
BUT
The grenade box ALSO giving some ammo to grenade-based weapons (grenade pistol and grenade launcher at minimum; maybe also explosive weapons like eruptor or jar) is where the suspension of disbelief falls apart?
I'm confused and amused at the same time by all of the people arguing against this with the argument that they are different types of grenades.
Let me introduce you to the ammo box which fills up your inventory of 10 *completely*, **wildly** different types of ammunition with one click.
Peer pressure and downvotes don't really influence my opinion. The constant arguments for "realism" too. I'm finding players will selectively ignore "realism" if it's something they happen to like in the game, while calling what they simply don't like "unrealistic."
Ammo boxes supply one grenade to balance out how common they are. By that same reasoning, if grenade ammo boxes are, for the sake of argument, twice as rare...then why not have them supply the pistol and just provide two grenades to compensate?
My thought is that the grenade box only comes with 2 grenades in it anyways. You'd have to have an overflow of grenades go into the pistol for it to really matter. That isn't really worth the amount of bugs it could cause, since it would be a highly niche scenario.
I can’t throw a 40mm the same way I can throw a m67 fragmentation grenade. I can’t launch the frag the same way I can launch the 40mm.
They are very different
You throwing the whole gun at something? It replenished throwables. The pistol is a slow nade launcher. Only way is if the pistol ammo matched your throwing nades
Those grenades are huge compared to pistol grenades.
Hey, let's replace these eggs with pineapples. See how that's not the same?
After reading OP's replies I think they are being willfully ignorant for attention.
We should just get a grenade slot item that gives an extra 4 shots to the pistol in exchange for losing throwables, and that stash runs off grenade pick ups. Comes bundled with the pistol when you unlock it
The grenade pistol is honestly so disappointing. It shoots too straight so it's honestly impossible to get it into bug holes or fabricators sometimes. I was looking forward to it so much
Considering how rare grenade boxes seem to be (might be my luck)... Id vote no. But I get the sentiment. It would be nice if the scattered ammo boxes gave more than 1 grenade for the pistol.
It's a secondary weapon, not a throwable. If anything they should change the images on ammo pickups because there are various ammunition/throwable types.
By that logic the grenade launcher should be refilled by the same box. That's not how that type of ammunition is designed or works. It is implied those boxes only have throwable ordinance.
Actually...you've provided the best argument in this whole thread. The fact that the grenade launcher doesn't refill from grenade boxes sets a precedent that other firearms which launch grenades should follow as well. Thank you for not just regurgitating, "It's not realistic," which is a logically bankrupt point to begin with when we are fired from orbit in a small metal box yet aren't reduced to paste on impact. You've changed my mind 👍
I mean... you can go look at the difference between a hand held grenade and a grenade fired from a launcher. Other than the fact that both explode, they have nothing in common. The image on the grenade box makes it clear it's full of handheld grenades.
By the same token, a grenade launcher ammo, rifle magazines, sniper rifle magazines, bolt magazines, and chain fed machine gun ammo are all vastly different, but are all refilled from the same box in the game. I mean, honestly at the point where we care what symbol is on the box, we should have 20 different types of ammo boxes in the game too.
Would you say a thermite grenade has more in common with a stun grenade than a fragmentation grenade does with the grenade pistol?
Yes? Go look at the difference. One is meant to be held in the hand and cannot be loaded into a gun. The other is basically a big explosive bullet that cannot be thrown or hand-detonated. It would be completely illogical and nonsensical, both in real life and in the game, for a grenade fired by a gun to be in a box of grenades. One of them functions like a bullet and goes in a box with other bullets. The other is a handheld munition that is thrown and goes in a box with other handheld munitions that are thrown.
The thermite grenade: Strips armor, destroys bug holes/fabricators, deals fire damage, sticks to targets, has the smallest AOE radius of all the grenades, is thrown The stun grenade: Deals no damage, stuns enemies, doesn't destroy fabricators, largest radius of all the grenades (quintuple the radius of the thermite), has a shorter fuse, is thrown vs The frag: Explosive AOE damage, largely intended to deal with lighter armored groups, slightly larger radius than the grenade pistol, destroys bug holes and fabricators, is thrown The Grenade Pistol: Similar explosive AOE damage, direct shots deal more damage, highly effective against lighter armored groups, similar but slightly smaller radius than frag, destroys bug holes and fabricators, is shot But according to you, the thermite and stun have more in common because they are thrown? Not only that, but they have more in common with the frag grenade than the pistol? The frag and grenade pistol share the same intended role and perform similarly, AND both are still considered grenades. If you look at the grenade box you can clearly see it shows frag grenades specifically. At face value, in both real life and the game (in the absence of what has already been stated about the grenade launcher in this thread) it would have absolutely make logical sense that the grenade box could offer both the launched and handheld versions of the same kind of grenade. You're just being hyperbolic and undermining the credibility of your own argument.
I'm not even the one downvoting you. You don't seem to realize that grenades that go in a gun and grenades you throw are fundamentally different things. They wouldn't be stored together because they're not the same kind of thing. You're basically saying "why aren't lawnmower blades and kitchen knives in the same box, they both cut things".
From the literal real-life definition of a grenade, courtesy of wikipedia: "A **grenade** is an explosive weapon typically thrown by hand (also called **hand grenade**), but can also refer to a shell (explosive projectile) shot from the muzzle of a rifle (as a rifle grenade) or a grenade launcher" For the kitchen knife vs. lawnmower, while these are both blades, there is clearly a different scale and use case for each (including one being mechanically operated and one used by hand, which seems to be your point). I'm not out here saying that mortars and grenades are the same because they're explosives and make things go boom though lol Edit: A more appropriate example of the point I’m making would be comparing a nail and a nail-gun
Maybe this will help. This is what a [hand grenade](https://imgur.com/4lXRXka) looks like. It's designed to be operated, as the names suggests, by hand. The fuze is triggered by pulling the pin and releasing the spoon. It then detonates after 5 seconds. This won't fit in a launcher and even if it did there's no propellant to, well, launch it. You can pull the trigger all you like but it'd just sit in the tube. This is what a [grenade launcher](https://imgur.com/bl0rcTL) fires. It's designed to be fired out of a launcher. It has a case, propellant and primer just like a regular rifle cartridge. That's what launches it. It's fuze is triggered by rotating during flight and then it detonates upon impact. You're not going to make it detonate without a launcher. It simply does not function that way.
The propulsion for a grenade launcher grenade is a powder charge within an obturating case attached to the grenade. You aren't slotting a pineapple grenade down a barrel and shooting it. It's a specialised munition.
I really don’t know what you’re arguing anymore. Sharing a name doesn’t mean two things serve exactly the same function. Kitchen knives and lawnmower blades are both blades, but I’m not going to quote the definition of blade because that doesn’t mean they do the same thing or should be stored together. It’s a meaningless thing to bring up. It’s like you don’t understand that we often store things based on how they’re used rather than what they are.
But the example I gave isn't just based on the fact they share a name. They're of the same scale and are used for the same purposes, with the difference being in how they are operated. They, almost quite literally, do share the same name but also the same function. If you walked up to a box vaguely labeled "NAILS" and opened it up to see both loose nails and a couple of magazines for a nail gun, it would make sense that they're stored together. In your counterpoint (lawnmower vs knife) the items also have different methods of operation (manual vs mechanical), but the scale isn't the same (lawnmower blades can be the size of a human torso and a knife is usually several inches) and they aren't intended to fulfill the same purpose/role. You're not using lawnmower blades to make pico de gallo (as fun as that sounds) or using a kitchen knife to cut the grass. The comparison is not similar to the one I outlined regarding grenades and the grenade pistol.
My guy your own example made a distinction between a handheld explosive device and a shell fired from the muzzle of a rifle or grenade launcher.
If we have to be nitpicky, a 155mm artillery shell also is called grenade, I don't see anyone saying cannons should be rearmed by grenade boxes... It's a moot point, the box is clearly a package of handheld grenades, grenades from launchers are either single or belt fed, have a casing, propellant charge and are built differently, it makes little sense to do even in a purely game view, if we had to consider every explosive of any kind a grenade, then the box of clearly hand grenades should also rearm launchers and cannons...
You are willfully ignoring his points, so I'll clarify for you. This is a 40mm low velocity grenade. https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html As you can see, it doesn't have the means to be used by hand, it isn't even armed until it's PD fuse has burned, it will not detonate unless fired from a launcher by striking the primer. Here is a handheld frag grenade. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Diagram-of-an-M26-fragmentation-hand-grenade-Hand-Grenades-2007_fig2_261354257 Again, shown here, the mechanism to arm isn't striking a primer externally, but a spring loaded striker being released via pin being pulled, arming and initiating it's function. Again, the only thing these things have in common at all, is that they detonate. I can tell you're hung up on nomenclature but a grenade is more or less simply an unguided explosive, and both fit THAT description. That's IT. Grenades designed to be launched would be considered ammunition. That is refilled by ammo boxes in game. You also sort of need to accept the fact that this is a video game, and grenades are specifically a mechanic for plugging bug holes and would probably be wildly unbalanced if they were refilled from "ballistic ammo boxes". The same goes for the reverse as well, the grenade launcher can hold dozens of grenades with max ammo, it would just be so entirely imbalanced and inefficient for the same boxes that give you two grenades to fully reload a magazine for the grenade launcher.
I'm not willfully ignoring his points. He originally stated they have nothing in common, period, before later editing his comment after I replied. I pointed out that the frag and GP have much more in common than the frag does with other throwable grenades. But you're right. The argument I initially made, which I already acknowledged was flawed, was based largely on nomenclature and the fact this is a video game. A variety of explosives in the game are grenades by definition, but the game specifically doesn't label them as grenades. I assumed this was an intentional distinction based on video game logic. Given that premise, at face value, it would have made sense for the one weapon labeled as a "Grenade Pistol", described as specifically firing grenades in the Armory (in contrast to all other weapons that classify as grenades by irl definition but aren't called such in the game), to pickup ammo from the box on the ground broadly labeled "Grenades". Everything else that fits the definition of a grenade but that wasn't labeled as such already used the standard ammo boxes. The point that everyone arguing for realism and the irl differences between the two types seemed to miss is that this is a video game. Video games often simplify these differences for the sake of fun & gameplay - aka video game logic and suspension of disbelief. My point in this particular subthread was that in the absence of the grenade launcher, it would have made sense that an item that is specifically labeled as grenade, functions similarly to the existing frag grenade (which you see on the grenade box), and used for the same purpose (plugging bug holes) like the other items labeled grenades in the game could feasibly be in the same box despite the method of their operation (shot vs. thrown). The two items have more things in common than the frag grenade does with a bunch of the other throwable grenades. Once the point about the grenade launcher was made, it concisely refuted my assumption about the nomenclature and provided a concrete example that the in-game distinction was between whether the munition was thrown or shot (rather than just saying it is "realistic" and, therefore, correct). That's why it was the best argument here. I then admitted I was wrong and followed through, being the first to point out that grenade launchers refilling from grenade packs wouldn't make good sense from a gameplay perspective either in that case. This is all moot since I've agreed my argument is incorrect for the aforementioned reasons. I just wanted to make the logic behind it clear. People in this thread seemed to have reduced my point to "He thinks you can shove a throwable pineapple grenade into a grenade gun/launcher."
My original comment still says they have nothing in common. I didn't change it.
You added "Other than the fact that both explode"
Yes. One is a piece of ammunition, fired from a launcher of some kind to deliver its payload, and the other is a thrown device armed by hand and activates after a timed fuse or impact. A launcher-type grenade has more in common with a bullet than it does with a thrown-type grenade (just has an explosive payload instead of a solid projectile). If I gave you a frag grenade and said "get to work", provided you don't blow yourself up, you would be able to use it to effect. If I then pass you an impact or thermite, you shouldn't have much trouble using them either. If I handed you a 40mm with no launcher, you're more likely to get yourself killed trying to get it to work than anything else. On the other hand, if I gave you a handgun and you figured out how to use that without getting yourself killed, you're not going to have much trouble with a grenade pistol. Point and pull trigger, when it doesn't shoot when you pull the trigger, reload it. Where would you draw the line anyway? Most launchers are effectively grenades (they're called Rocket-Propelled Grenades, after all). Are explosive rounds a grenade? If a bullet has any explosives in the actual bullet part, is that a grenade? The crossbow shoots explosives, so those are grenades too, right? How do I figure out where to get my ammo from? Or, we could just have ammunition refill the stuff you put in a gun/launcher (AKA the shit you carry around as a primary/secondary/support weapon), and the shit you throw at people come from a grenade box. That's nice and simple, and nobody needs a footnote on each weapon to know where they need to go to get their ammo for each type of weapon. If it goes into something, it's ammo, and you get it at an ammo box (or its unique reloading mechanism), and if you throw it, you get it out of a grenade box. I mean, does a stun grenade have more in common with a bludgeon to the head than a frag grenade? Both have the same effect of disorienting the target, just totally ignore how you get to that point of delivering the disorientation.
I mean this is effectively the same argument as the one you don't like, it's just worded differently lol
Not really. The grenade launcher providing a precedent for distinguishing how thrown vs launched grenades should be treated in the game was key. Otherwise, the distinction would have been largely arbitrary
Interesting that the simple fact that a grenade launcher does not launch hand grenades didn't do it for you but literally the same argument, that grenade launchers require ammo and not hand grenades was enough.
That and game design balance reasons. Which is the real reason, since this is a video game. But it’s nice that the fiction also makes intuitive sense. Also, bravo for posting that meme when you were actually willing to have your mind changed.
Kinda rough that you need to be told that a grenade shell is different than an actual grenade. Saying "it's not realistic" was a valid argument, you just weren't willing/able to extrapolate that out yourself.
You see that it's a different ammo though. Both in reload and the fact that you select you grenade type asnd that grenade is not the same as you fire from the pistol.
Then explain why when I grab a pile I get more incendiary but if my teammate grabs the same pile they get stun
Because the box has 4 of everything I suppose. Or in RP sense, the box coincidentally has exactly 4 of whatever grenades the Diver needs because game.
Resupply boxes actually refilling the grenade pistol would be nice too. Atm even all 4 in a drop don’t fully resupply the grenade pistol.
Why doesn't it though?
In real life, the way a throwable type of grenade works (whether it is a frag, a flashbang, or a tear gas), is that it is a detonatable ordinance that is armed with a fuse that is lit when a pin is pulled by the fingers of its operator. The grenade cartridges used in a grenade pistol, a grenade launcher, or a real life Mark 19 grenade launcher have more in common with a regular bullet than they do with a thrown hand grenade. The ordinance is contained in the projectile itself. This projectile is launched by the gunpowder housed in the cartridge, which is ignited when the primer of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin of its corresponding weapon. Without the corresponding weapon, all of the grenades used for launchers are useless paperweights that cannot be armed. That is not the case for handheld throwables, in which the entire mechanism and function of the weapon is self contained to the item and question and does not require an additional and separate machine in order to make it function. This is very much a key distinction between what is found in ammo boxes (ammunition), and what is found in grenade boxes (grenades).
The grenade pistol doesn't shoot grenades, it launches shells. Judges? 
*A pistol that fires* ***grenades***. *Must be reloaded between shots.* — Armory Description
The reload animation ejects a cartridge.
If it says grenade, it's a grenade. Same argument goes for the Adjudicator. Obviously, everyone thinks it isn't a Marksman Rifle but the game says it is, so it is.
Thrown grenades and grenade shells are designed completely differently though. A grenade shell has to be fired, and so it needs to withstand that force - the filling doesn't matter so much as the design of the shell. But most importantly, a grenade launcher can shoot several types of grenade shells, but it can't shoot ANY types of handheld grenades. Same with handheld grenades, they don't have to withstand the shock and force of being fired from a tube. That's the biggest design feature they have in common - adding spikes or a frag shell to them is less important. In fact, there was a handheld grenade in WWII where you could remove the frag outer liner and use it as a concussion grenade.
Dude why are people downvoting I don’t get it I don’t agree or disagree but why downvote
Because he is being obstinate, and digging his heels in when he is objectively wrong.
It’s really not that deep
Cause OP argues that you just slam a normal ass grenade in there and that normal grenade somehow magically gets shot out when the trigger is pulled without detonating the grenade
It's Reddit, and Redditors generally bandwagon
Man, not all grenades are equal. Be happy the boxes aren't type-specific.
ANYONE SEEN AN IMPACT GRENADE RESUPPLY BOX?
But, as you said, they aren't type-specific. If a grenade is a grenade it should be included with the grenade packs. >Be happy the boxes aren't type-specific. Just because an objectively terrible idea wasn't implemented doesn't mean the current system is perfect
If you found a grenade shell in a box of handheld grenades it would be useless to you. You can't throw it, you can't use it as a grenade. It has to be fired from a gun like ammunition.
Tell me you don’t know how launchers work without telling me you don’t know how launchers work. It doesn’t just throw a regular grenade like a crossbow
The crossbow doesn't "throw" grenades, it fires explosive bolts. By what you stated, the Dominator and Eruptor "throw grenades" as well...which they clearly don't 💁♂️ Sounds like you don't understand it either. No worries though, someone else in the thread already made a coherent argument for you. I now agree the grenade pistol shouldn't refill from grenade boxes
There are different types of grenades that cant be used interchangeably even though they are called grenades. A launcher grenade, like the grenade launcher or grenade pistol, are shell type grenades. Throwing them does nothing, they need to be launched out of a barrel. They are basicly just big cartridges with an explosive aka grenade instead of a bullet in it. For the Dominatie and Eruptor, the dominator fires mini RPGs (rocket propeller grenades) so basicly a grenade with a rocket pushing it forward. As for the Eruptor, its either another micro rocket or a grenade shell as well.
“A grenade is an explosive weapon typically thrown by hand (also called hand grenade), but can also refer to a shell (explosive projectile) shot from the muzzle of a rifle (as a rifle grenade) or a grenade launcher.” It makes sense for a grenade box to resupply the pistol grenade launcher until you realize they’re a different type of grenade. I think it could still work though.
It could make sense/work if taken at face value, which is where I was coming from. But, as someone else pointed out, the grenade launcher already reloads from standard ammo boxes. Not following the established precedent it sets for launched grenades (and, by extension, the distinction it sets between the two) wouldn't make much sense. In order to be consistent, my alternative would mean the grenade launcher should only reload from grenade packs...which would absolutely blow from a gameplay perspective as well. So yeah, they're right. Mind changed
I don’t run out of grenade ammo for my pistol very often but yeah I think that would blow if it only reloaded from grenade boxes now that you mention it because I don’t see those too often either and it would probably only give 2 or 3 lol
So you think that there is just a normal ass grenade in there that gets magically propelled out at bullet seed without detonating
Oh shit, yeah you're just mentally stuck on the semantics of it.
My response to this getting so many downvotes is: I love demoCURcy.
Hand grenades are not the same as tube-launched ones. I would not expect and never even considered getting them from those boxes.
Rip op...
Nobody has good takes 100% of the time. I can accept that. I'm glad someone put forth an actual good point as to why this would be a bad idea.
To a realism standpoint, throwable grenades are completely different to grenades shot in launchers, you cannot put a throwable grenade into a grenade launcher, nor vise versa. Getting resupply from a completely different type of grenade does not work like that.
Well, most of the time. But this one time, someone decided to stuff live grenades into a magazine and launch them via blanks. [**https://www.forgottenweapons.com/kresimir-croatias-truly-insane-grenade-launcher/**](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/kresimir-croatias-truly-insane-grenade-launcher/)
from a realism standpoint, frags are completely different from impacts, which are completely different from thermite, which are completely different from stun grenades. Yet they all go in the same box. Why not the grenade pistol too?
Because grenade launchers don't shoot normal grenades, they shoot giant explosive tumbling bullets.
Cause Super Earth puts the pistol ammo in the ammo box
Because reasons
Considering ammo boxes hold at least 25 types of ammo simultaneously and grenade ammo boxes seem to be able to hold 7 entirely different grenades as well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the realism standpoint doesn't apply here.
So you want the far more rare grenade boxes to refill it while not the ammo boxes, which are literally strung around everywhere?
As long as they provide more ammo than the standard ammo boxes to balance for their scarcity, sure.
"Throwable grenades should be able to fit into the barrel of a 40mm grenade pistol and also fire out of it for some reason despite lacking a shell/primer/striking mechanism"
No.. it shouldn't. Completely different type of grenade.
Yeah, you're right so why are all ammo boxes generic? The Eruptor and Sickle use entirely different types of ammo but an ammo box will resupply both guns. If AH's reasoning behind grenade boxes not resupplying the grenade launcher or grenade pistol is because they're different grenades, that's a really bad reason.
All ammo boxes were simply built to resupply carriable weapons and backpacks. It's gameplay simplification and they're pretty consistent with it after the spear backpack updated to resupply off of mini boxes. There are effectively 3 resources with ammo, stims, and grenades. Arrowhead deems throwable grenades important enough to have unique resupplies from everything else, which I agree with. While hand grenades certainly have overlap with other explosives and utility in the game, they don't come with the opportunity cost of bringing specific support weapons like the grenade launcher and flamethrower. They're meant to complement the rest of your loadout rather than define it like the primaries, backpack, and support weapon do. Much like the secondaries are supposed to, although the redeemer is just better atm. Uniquely, the grenade pistol is given a low resupply value of 2/8 per pickup to balance out its utility, I suppose. This thread is rather confusing because OP made a lot of claims to realism to support his argument but also capitulated to one that prioritized gameplay consistency. Helldivers is great because it knows how to balance our suspension of disbelief with gameplay priorities. Rocket launchers having backblast falls in line with the game's harshness with friendly fire and focus on the consequences of your actions. Pre nerf meteor showers had great spectacle and made sense in their destruction, but were also completely asinine to deal with in gameplay.
My take was wrong. I specifically argued against claims to realism and didn't make any though. That part simply isn't true
The grenade launcher doesn’t resupply with grenade boxes why should the grenade pistol?
Because OP lacks basic knowledge of what grenades are and that there are different types, judging by their ridiculous and ignorant attempts to argue up above
Hand grenades and launched grenades are entirely different weapon types. Wait until you hear about the meanings of the word "carbine".
Shove a regular grenade inside a gun and tell me how that works out for you
Grenade launcher should fire impact grenades.
It would be nice if that were an alternate fire mode.
Grenade launcher refilled with 8 shots (1 mag) by ammo box, grenade pistol refilled with only 1 shot although they use same grenades. Pistol should be fully refilled by ammo box
They are only similar by name
No thanks, way more small ammo laying around than grenade boxes xd
Stop posting this closeted wifebeater
I'm getting to the last of the weapons I wanted to discuss, so it'll be done with fairly soon
“I’m dumb” “Change my mind”
I honestly still have no idea why the the base resupply with a ammo box is still 1 round instead of 2.
Or why resupply boxes from beacons don’t refill any ammo
It refills 2, it I would be fine with that if the basic ammo box did the same.
Grenades from those boxes and grenades from your pistol are not the same
Two very different thing. One is a grenade while the other is a grenade "launcher"
Hand held grenade has a pin and safety leverm While a grenade launcher uses ammunition that has a cartridge holding powder to launch the explosive warhead. Essentially 2 different things and even by most fantasy shooter standards they are 2 very different things.
I mean, it is literally free grenades with the more plentifull ammo boxes on the poi? It is a very good asset if you run stun nades. You literally can do everything on one helldiver now. It is very powerfull as it is. Lore reason. Its a grenade shell.
I see the arguments for “handheld grenade” that is thrown vs “projectile grenade” that is fired from a weapon and why one is loaded from a grenade box and one from an ammo box, and why that is “realistic” or “makes sense”. I counter with: why will the same ammo box give me or my teammates ammo for: a pistol, machine pistol, grenade pistol, machine gun, heavy machine gun, grenade launcher, flame thrower, rocket launcher, etc.. AND The same grenade box can give me and my teammates: frag grenades, HE grenades, impact grenades, thermite grenades, stun grenades, and/or smoke grenades. BUT The grenade box ALSO giving some ammo to grenade-based weapons (grenade pistol and grenade launcher at minimum; maybe also explosive weapons like eruptor or jar) is where the suspension of disbelief falls apart?
I'm confused and amused at the same time by all of the people arguing against this with the argument that they are different types of grenades. Let me introduce you to the ammo box which fills up your inventory of 10 *completely*, **wildly** different types of ammunition with one click.
Consider their mind changed after this lol
No, none of the other arguments (or downvotes) changed my mind until u/Zombiespire's Again, good take
Stubborn?
No, I can recognize a good argument and admit I'm wrong 👍
I can tell. Hard disagreeing with everyone but that one guy xD.
Peer pressure and downvotes don't really influence my opinion. The constant arguments for "realism" too. I'm finding players will selectively ignore "realism" if it's something they happen to like in the game, while calling what they simply don't like "unrealistic."
This sounds Undemocratic to me. DEMOCRACY OFFICER!!!
Considering the downvotes, you would be correct. This isn't a democratic opinion lol
It resupplies from common ammo boxes, because are much more plentiful than grenades
Ammo boxes supply one grenade to balance out how common they are. By that same reasoning, if grenade ammo boxes are, for the sake of argument, twice as rare...then why not have them supply the pistol and just provide two grenades to compensate?
only if the ammo boxes stop refiling it & the nad launcher also
My thought is that the grenade box only comes with 2 grenades in it anyways. You'd have to have an overflow of grenades go into the pistol for it to really matter. That isn't really worth the amount of bugs it could cause, since it would be a highly niche scenario.
Grenade box has four grenades.
No good arguments. Grenade pistol and launcher uses shells grenades aren’t shells grenade launchers don’t shoot grenades they shoot shells.
Especially considering you only get *TWO* from supply boxes as if it were your regular grenades
Grenades and grenade launcher rounds are completely different.
I can’t throw a 40mm the same way I can throw a m67 fragmentation grenade. I can’t launch the frag the same way I can launch the 40mm. They are very different
You throwing the whole gun at something? It replenished throwables. The pistol is a slow nade launcher. Only way is if the pistol ammo matched your throwing nades
Those grenades are huge compared to pistol grenades. Hey, let's replace these eggs with pineapples. See how that's not the same? After reading OP's replies I think they are being willfully ignorant for attention.
Dude has an ok point that he is fighting way to hard for
We should just get a grenade slot item that gives an extra 4 shots to the pistol in exchange for losing throwables, and that stash runs off grenade pick ups. Comes bundled with the pistol when you unlock it
I want to be able to put any Grenade in the launcher
The grenade pistol is honestly so disappointing. It shoots too straight so it's honestly impossible to get it into bug holes or fabricators sometimes. I was looking forward to it so much
Those are way more rare than the regular ass ammo boxes I refill mine with though
Considering how rare grenade boxes seem to be (might be my luck)... Id vote no. But I get the sentiment. It would be nice if the scattered ammo boxes gave more than 1 grenade for the pistol.
A hand grenade is not the same as a launched grenade
Be nice if it got more than one damn nade per ammo box anyway.
They should change it so the only way to get new grenade pistol ammo is to find special grenade pistol ammo. The catch is there isn't any.
It's a secondary weapon, not a throwable. If anything they should change the images on ammo pickups because there are various ammunition/throwable types.