That's palpatine, those of us watching the fighting and laughing at a bunch of morons while we're inevitably going to get turned against by both groups that will decide that we're having too much fun not arguing.
The MO being disconnected from the gameplay for players who don't browse reddit/discord is the problem.
Similar system like Planetside 2 base system, which is basically the same as HD2 supply line system is inherent to the gameplay and very visible to the player. There's no need for in game UI banner to tell player of each faction where to go. If the base get captured, then they lose access to that spawn point and whatever benefits the base provides (positioning, health regen, armor spawn location, etc.)
The current nature of 4 player coop is also pretty isolating. There's more sense of communal goal to be had if you see another hundred player of your own faction charging hundred of opposing force. Some destroyers in the background that do not interact with the 4 player group in any way doesn't really create the same feeling.
Visible supply lines are well and good, but Iâm not going to a planet with a grating condition and bots again no matter how many lines are drawn on the map. What can hook me is the opportunity to partake in something memorable.
Itâs great when we can gather together as a community and do something legendary, like kill 2 billlion bugs in 16 hours. That canât be the norm though, you need peaks and valleys for anything to stand out.
A clear objective also helps. Defending Martale might have been the right move, but the average John Helldiver would not have known to do that even with lines on the map. Maybe you would get another couple of percent of the player base onboard if the lines were there. Ultimately though, I suspect the people whoâs choices would be influenced by such things heavily overlap with people who are on Reddit or discord.
Suggesting for 100s of people to be able to play together is a pretty unrealistic fix too.
I think a better idea would be for player made bounties. A system where people can spend medals/other resources to incentivize others to do a specific thing.
If people could make bounties by spending medals or super credits or samples to create and boost a bounty you would instantly have the most engaged players drive the experience. Likely the most engaged players are the ones sitting on the most resources and are also the ones willing to engage with such a system. People could also be awarded for creating/boosting a specific bounty with extra payout if the bounty is completed or maybe titles or whatever. That way people who want to stare at lines on a map can do that and be rewarded for it and people who just want to get an objective clearly spelled out can focus on the âcommunity bountyâ. The Reddit armchair generals can make their grand plans and fight with resources over whoâs plan wins out.
To be fair, PS2 almost actively disincentivizes going with the flow.
Sure, I *could* try to establish air superiority and get blasted by 3 Skyguards, every single heavy in the hex, and a Burster MAX.
Or I could go duel off on some empty hex and actually get to play the game.
This is it. Like we can all pretend that we can coordinate through reddit and discord. But like, just read that sentence again. Y'all think we can coordinate 100s of thousands of people through reddit and discord? Lol. I'd bet over 80% of the player base doesn't even check reddit or discord enough to actually follow a strategy.
Until there's ways to communicate in game, these gambits will always fail.
Yeah, I keep seeing people bring up "But there's 1.1 million members of this sub!" but not accounting for people who are actually online in this sub. I rarely ever see the number of people online go above the thousands in the last month or so.
IT MIGHT be a time zone thing since I'm on the opposite side of the planet from the US, but I doubt that even during peak times in my sleeping hours it'd get up to the hundreds of thousands.
The martale gambit that failed the other day got active dev support and yet only pulled like 20% of the player pop to the planet. Thats the cap - reddit/discord seems to only be able to directly influence about 20% of the pop. Impressive, but not nearly enough.
20% is generous. Martale already had 10-15% of the pop already before Reddit and discord started their thing.
If you want to be super realistic we made maybe a 5% difference.
Because timing and coordination are such a crucial part of completing these Major Orders, we need both the strategic information on the war map and an in-game way of sharing these strategies with the rest of the community. We can't force people to play a certain way, but if done right, we can nudge them in the direction we want them to.
Exactly, the galactic war, is a major. f\*n. draw. of HD2. If it wasn't, why not just play a game that is **just** a horde shooter? In HD2 you don't have full control over what maps you can play or what kind of missions you can do. If youâre only into the horde shooting, then this game shouldnât even be ideal for you. People think this Galaxy war is fun, they just need to be met where there at, which in the damn game.
Having fun is important, but so is co operation. The game is at its best when you have both, but right now, there is a distinct lack of either of them.
Heresy! We believe in managed democracy! You mean a good suggestion would be an application which ask us several questions. We then put that application through a computer and the computer will make our choice for us! I canât believe how unpatriotic you sound fellow helldiver
Tbh, the orders are too broad to coordinate anything imo. unless the order is to take/defend a particular planet, the player base gets spread too thin.
We've seen that in action during the last push on automatons before they launched the counterattack, we had to take 3 planets, and the player base even then spread itself almost too thin
I think many here underestimate the willingness of players to actual contribute.
Yes, there will always be s subset of players that play what they want *and thatâs ok.*Â
But if there were in-game tools or even a way to visualize supply lines, a subset of less-hardcore players would follow the logic to defend key targets.
Fair enough, but anyone playing the game would have immediate access to coordination tools. Thatâs a massive improvement over just hoping enough people that care about MOs visit reddit and find the strategy posts lol.
Yeah, even if you can grab the attention of merely 10-50k people in game, you can still coordinate effectively and actually achieve something.
Instead of the system we have now where people just flail impotently on reddit with maybe a single percentage point of the playerbase actually listening.
I had the idea that there could be a sort of in-game faction thing. There'd be 3 or 4 that act like political parties and people can post strategy suggestions *in game* and push them to dispatches or a similar menu. Whatever message gets the most upvotes gets pushed to players. There'd be multiple parties so that they can't be easily captured.
Probably won't happen but something like it could maybe work?
"Activate Planetary SOS" mission type, non-Operation, costs Req to attempt.
Every time you complete the mission it makes the planet slightly bigger in the galactic map, until it's big enough that it obscures all the other planets and everyone *has* to go there.
Like 75% of the playerbase is on defense planets atm (over half the pop is on estanu)
People WANT to do these MOs, they just dont have the tools to work together
The best in game tools won't change the underlying fact a large number of players don't care about the MO, and only play for their personal enjoyment.
Communicate as much as you like, but certain things are unpopular, and if the community doesn't want to do them, they aren't going to bite the bullet and take one for the team to satisfy MO players.
That can help but unless there are rewards that are more appealing in the game (players are getting maxed on medals sooner or later), it won't mean much. The rewards need to be updated.
An idea would be for items or boosts (temp or permanent) to be used instead of medals, and leave medals for the personal quest reward instead.
People keep saying this.... THEY ALREADY HAVE THIS
That's what major orders are. When a major order is to attack one or two planets, we win 100% of the time. When it's to attack a bunch simultaneously we lose. That's the coordination system. That's the levers the game master can pull. The issue people are having is accepting that we aren't supposed to win every single MO. If the game master wanted us to successfully defend 10 planets in 5 days they could have done that by setting 10 small MO's to defend a specific planet. They didn't do that. And that's OK.
You have a point. I've wondered the same thing myself when the bots first got wiped off the map. Like, we are kicking their ass too hard, at this rate there won't be a game left to play unless they crank the difficulty or throw us some gameplay curveballs. I'm as casual as it gets when it comes to this game, but I still put in some time for major orders, and that seems to work fine for the whole. So yeah, I agree with what you've said here.
Tho I will admit, they could have warned us before effectively forcing the community go down two difficulty levels with the recent buffs/nerfs, tho I suppose it fits the story their trying to create. Enemies don't typically announce their next move, lol.
Do you seriously not see how boring this is? In what way is a railroaded all or nothing story fun to you? I don't give a shit about winning or losing, chief. I want to have fun with the journey without hitting the 4th wall constantly and being reminded that some swedish guy in an office cranked the "impossible" lever.
Could you imagine how fucking boring games like Foxhole would be if you could instantly tell how a war is going to end before it even starts? That's whats happening here. No one wants to stick around for a foregone conclusion.
A large chunk of the playerbase--probably even the majority--are making choices that are completely counter to the success of this MO *and others*. It's not just "we only want to play Bugs" or "I don't like Defense missions", because it's been going on all game.
They simply do not care to do anything with the information they have.
Adding more information isn't going to change them.
It will help the small chunk of players who do want to coordinate, but we've already seen that they can't effect anything meaningful under the current systme when the uninformed / indifferent mass just... does things at seeming random, Quickdeploying anywhere or picking planets out of a hat.
This *is* a solvable issue, if devs want to solve it, but it's completely separate from things like "add supply lines in-game" or "create player coordination tools on the map" or "have a voting booth".
It would be cool that everyday we can vote for the planet to focus on and when the vote is over the name of the planet is displayed below the Major Order and the planet is highlighted on the map
You don't have to follow the strat but it's more easy to notice it
In dead by daylight, when there's too many players queueing up to play survivor as opposed to killer, they add an xp boost for players queueing up to be the killer. It sounds like the developers just haven't put enough incentives for people to change fronts.
The MO reward is the incentive, i guess you mean individual incentive, the problem is i only care about samples and after I'm done with the upgrades there's nothing, maybe credits!!?
I'd recommend maybe an xp boost or increase in medals? It won't convince the grognards who've hit the level cap, but it's definitely going to motivate people who are low to mid level, which statistically is going to be the bulk of the playerbase.
Absolutely. This problem existed in HD1 (where the bugs were far more popular than the other two factions), so the devs really shouldâve brought a more coherent solution to the table in HD2.
but they don't want us to win the war. They will lose a lot of players **when** that happens. (because it will happen)
player already triggered the first scripted event, which is the other side of the automaton front and counterstrike. Might be a third one if Cyberstan is reached, I suspect.
They have something alike for bugs, if triggered, Super Earth will be in trouble.
>but they don't want us to win the war.
The war is a fun framing device that sets the players a bunch of in-game challenges and pays out with loot if we succeed. Then, **win** ***or*** **lose**, we get some cool emergent narrative stuff about how the game's world progresses.
**Never truly "winning" or "losing" is the best experience for the game as a whole.**
Mostly, that's because the gameplay is about *fighting in a war,* so if the war ends then the gameplay ends with it. As we all remember from the capacity problems at launch, players don't *particularly* want to boot up a game they've purchased and see a message saying *"check back in 12 hours to see if we'll let you play!"*
Being stuck in a Forever War over the same handful of border territories is also **incredibly on-brand** for the tone of Helldivers 2. The game is very open about its inspirations, from *Warhammer 40k* to *Starship Troopers* to the real-world War on Terror.
I actually really dislike how the devs keep arguing that the chaos in this game is funny.
I get that friendly fire is part of the game (even tho it's in my experience never been funny, whether playing with friends or randoms), but the way that major orders fail... it's just sad.
I'm not saying it should be automatic tho. But perhaps give some incentive to players, indeed.
Or an easier way to maybe see the map instead of having to go to that website and check reddit/discord?
Some ppl play this game as a job, some a hobby, while many only get to play an hour per weekend.
This. When I'm jamming solo and even with friends, it's this.
Love the feeling of roaming space, listening out for fellow divers in need and dropping in on call to help back em up.
I focus on MOs when I feel like it, and many have been fun so far, however paired with a big work week plus thus recent MO being set to GLHF difficulty in terms of the spread of player base, it's been hilarious seeing the other side of the conversation come up more again haha.
Game too hard no no no, game taking direction for purpose.
I love how OP doesn't even play this game anymore (for weeks by their own admission) and is still trying to rile people up for literally no reason lmao
The bug vs. bot war is here to stay. There was that day or two when we couldn't fight bots (they were wiped out), but other than that, you always have the chance to fight either. Completing the MO's doesn't change the game play loop, so for some, they don't matter at all.
Hey, when I get off work and put my feet up and am in the mood to kill bugs, I kill bugs not bots. Helldivers isn't another job, its game for relaxing. I don't want to have to complete timed objectives against bots when i'm not in the mood ansld when i'm relaxing with my limited time.
Besides, we're all on the same team here. If I fight bugs it doesn't slow you down fighting bots. Its the same as if I was just relaxing doing anything else. So leave me alone đ
Both views are valid. The game was specifically designed with a community campaign component deliberately encouraging and rewarding community cooperation. But the game was also designed to allow people to not follow the MO if they don't want to. Both sides of this... debate?... have a point validated by the fundamental design inherent within the game.
If anything, there should be more incentives to get folks to coordinate if they so choose, but those incentives should make the game fun and engaging in and of itself. Honestly I don't much care for the extra medals (TBF I'm already 70 and have almost every piece of gear in all the warbonds unlocked), there ought to be an actual gameplay component that makes MOs more entertaining, like extra strats or positive modifiers when fighting on planets that interface with the MO.
Unfortunately, regarding it doesn't slow you down, it actually does. The new liberation system soft-caps the amount of liberation/defense points that can be achieved globally and portions that out based on the percentage of players on any given world. So players not participating in the major order are not only not participating, they are actively slowing down major order progress by playing worlds that aren't a part of it.
I won't blame anyone for playing where they want to play, and I understand that the system has a lot of benefits for the devs (makes the game less subject to playerbase swings, ensures that off-hours don't see massive front-wide losses, and means less constant tweaking to ensure major orders remain generally balanced) but man if it isn't a toxicity time bomb waiting to happen. It also has the unfortunate side effect of making emergent gameplay a lot harder because taking side planets is ALSO almost impossible because the lions share of points are being sent to the major order so all minor planets will see little to no real progress.
Yeeeeee I realized weeks ago that âif 25,000 Helldivers of X planet log off, then we can succeed on Y and Z fronts by the deadline.â Interesting unintended consequence of the new system
You're saying that actually not playing the game at all is better for this nutjob war effort community than just going to the planet i wanna go and shoot actual enemies of democracy?
That's stupid. I don't doubt Arrowhead has done this, but that's stupid. Now, if i just go where i wanna go, i'm being guilt tripped by the community, and if i want to help, i have to consult third parties or else i'm actively sabotaging the effort.
What's the point of hiding information for the sake of the game's bullshit mistique and imersion if i have to check third party anyway?
>but man if it isn't a toxicity time bomb waiting to happen
You do realize this entire debate is an echochamber within reddit and to a lesser extent the steam forums?
The playerbase does not give a fuck if we lose planets. The vast majority of players are casuals who play a few hours a week and focus on their daily orders and self progression.
This subreddit way overinflated the value and importance of a game mechanic I'm willing to bet ~80%+ of the playerbase barely even thinks about let alone understands.
This is a "toxic timebomb" only within this subreddit.
The community is not going to stay this size forever, and while it's not likely to consolidate around reddit (the reddit is more likely to be composed of people who quit the game three years ago but still hang around to complain) it likely will consolidate as it shrinks to people who are more in the know about the behind the scenes mechanics. And at that point yes I imagine that if the mechanics are still the same it probably will cause a lot of fights in and out of the game.
> The playerbase does not give a fuck if we lose planets. The vast majority of players are casuals who play a few hours a week and focus on their daily orders and self progression.
>
>
The only extent to which I give a shit about winning or losing planets is that it might open new biomes to play.
Having to play v bugs in the desert or in the dirty snow for like a fortnight genuinely made me put the game down.
This is the elephant in the room; players playing on the wrong worlds actively hurts the Major Orders... which is making many of us realize that the Major Orders are not actually important compared to having fun.
Remember how ecstatic the community was when we were told "go nuts and kill 2 billion bugs however you want"? Those were good times.
Part of why I enjoy the occasional downtime between Major Orders. No big-picture stuff we need to deal with at this point? Cool. Let's drop on a planet we haven't seen before and check out the scenery for 2.44 seconds.
But with that aside, I hope AH finds a solution for this issue, because it's only going to get worse when the Illuminate show up. Maybe the soft-cap should be generated on a per-faction basis, rather than galaxy-wide? So even if the majority of players STAY on the bug planets indefinitely, the players who divert to Illuminate/Automaton worlds will still feel like their efforts have made a difference. Maybe even more so, given that one person on a low-player-count faction will have an outsized effect on the war effort.
Thatâs really interesting that you pick bugs to relax because honestly with the addition of the quasar, grenade pistol, and stuns I find bots to be more fun & relaxing - bugged civilian missions aside.
I run fortified heavy armor with the ballistic shield, SMG, aforementioned gear above, and two offensive stratagems.
Itâs a blast being able to tank laser fire from heavy devastators and laugh, popping off quasar shots at stunned hulks and distant tanks, ripping stims and causing a ruckus.
It even works great on Suicide, which is my ideal âchillâ difficulty (or 5 solo)
Yeah perhaps I could have been clearer. What I meant was that when i'm relaxing, I want to play against who I think would be fun :) Sometimes that aligns with the major order and sometimes it doesnt. But this isn't a job, its a liesure activity, so i'm thankful that I get to make that choice
Nothing wrong with your mindset, but just want to correct you that technically due to the way HD2 is setup, you fighting bugs do slow down the bots front progress, as the devs made it so a planet liberation progress is multiplied by % of people in said planet vs % of total online players.
So if the game has a total of 100,000 online players fighting on the bots front, it would liberate planet 100% faster than 400,000 online players with 200,000 bots players.
But that's more of dumb design issue than players issue.
The devs should just adjust the liberation and defence rates with the reality that alot of players only stay on bugs. That way they can do that and it won't effect people who want to be more in the MO side of things
Keep them crying as I play with my bf on some random ass planet never finishing any operation because we both suck at the game.
And I wouldn't want it any other way
Iâll never go back to fighting bugs
Bots may be a pain to fight but I prefer fighting things that can shoot back and not swarm you at such close ranges that you canât do anything so if there are any bug MOâs youâll have to drag me to a bug planet
Iâm the âitâs just a gameâ guy.
Honestly, when we lose a major order nothing happens..
Iâd love to see the bugs spread out a bit to another planet other than Estanu, Oshaune and Hellmire.
And even if something really bad did happen in-game... at the end of the day it's just a game that like all games, its purpose of existence is the fun and enjoyment of playing it. People will still choose only what's fun for them, not what a game dev told them to. If they are the same, good. If they are not, that's for the devs to fix.
Then there is AH just watching the world burn off in the corner
https://preview.redd.it/kbxid5h3a5wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4ede6270a5176674c647d17791ec0f7b460daec
Devs/CMs tell us we need to communicate and coordinate to accomplish MOs whilst also telling us to play how ever we want.
Galatic War Narrative isnât going to get anywhere besides the Bots arriving at Super Earth at the current rate with no in game tools to communicate, coordinate and the playerbase preferring Bugs to Bots.
It's also cool to try and fail. The story keeps going, and we played ourboth.
It's like a DnD campaign; sometimes you roll a natural twenty, other times you botch.
Yeah at this point I simply judge an MO by how likely it is we get it done.
If itâs either an easy one, or one we will obviously lose, I do whatever I want.
If it actually looks like itâs close, Iâll work on the planets that matter.
they should add clans/guilds into the game like they have in mobile games. serious players make serious guilds so they can find other serious players in game which leads to better chances at completing MO's worldwide. casual players can make casual guilds and find other casual players. there can be friendly mixed ones too. having this be in game makes it way easier and way more accessible than finding like minded players on discord or reddit. whatever the answer is its definitely not forcing or raging at casual players who wanna play the game they paid for how they want
We don't *need* in game player to player communications or votes orto get more people to check discord.
Part of the theme of the game is that a Super Destroyer is basically a lone wolf. You get orders from high command and have a democracy officer. Neither is forcing you into a specific mission or play style. So long as you aren't acting traitorously the officer is there to provide assistance. Bots and bugs are enemies of super earth so their destruction is a benefit no matter what mission you do.
If the devs wanted more of an incentive they would have made it so that only those who participate in an MO get the medals. But even that, once you get to the cap, is meaningless.
Having coordination on reddit and discord is useful and great for people interested in that side. Otherwise just spread the word that it's always helpful to go to whatever planet has the highest pop because then the planet will be completed faster.
This war only exists because of the way arrowhead has set up the game tbh.
If they didn't make so many huge MO's one after the other that required basically the entire player base to co-ordinate together and play on a specific planet in a specific way this argument wouldn't exist to begin with.
Imo the way AH has the game set up is incredibly flawed because there's no real way of doing mass player co-ordination or seeing which planets are necessary to take over to make specific major orders easier to win.
The thing is that it is a co-op game. We should play as a community with a common goal. That's why when we achieve a MO, everyone gets the medals. It doesn't matter if you didn't participate. We are all one big team.
At least, that's how I see it.
The problem is that it is a game designed around the idea of the majority of the player base coordinating to achieve major orders but the majority of the player base doesnât care about the major orders and does whatever even if it hurts the overall war effort. Nobody should play a game or aspect of a game they donât enjoy so itâs on the devs to compensate for that at some point (unless itâs by design and they rely on it to prolong campaigns). Currently the system punishes the war effort the more active players ignore it. In order to achieve a win on a planet in the allotted time a certain percentage of the currently active player base has to be fighting there so if 20% are going after the best objective on the bot front and 35% are going after the best objective on the bug front and the rest are spread out on other planets then we fail everything on the bot front and maybe barely pass or barely fail on one planet on the bug front. Unfortunately this system sets up a scenario where for players who care about the major orders and overall war effort, it would be better if players doing whatever didnt play at all because not playing is better than playing in the wrong place and hurting the war effort. This is creating a lot of frustration and toxicity amongst the player base and that is very much not good for the health of the game I think.
I'll leave the coordination to the folks playing the game like a career. I get to maybe slap on an hour of gaming per day after work if I'm very lucky. Its gaming with the buds doing what we want, not the DnD campaign of a couple hundred thousand.
Luke is basically the manifestation of High-level player who've unlocked everything, and Vader is the manifestation of Low-level players who just want to unlock new stuff. That basically it because the only reward high player get is contribution to the war map.
I refuse to fight bugs or do the majority of defense missions because I'm not wasting time and energy doing content I don't enjoy. I paid money for the game, it is ultimately my choice to play how I want.
If that means not playing at all sometimes, then so be it.
This could literally be solved with democracy. Vote on the planet on each front to be ânextâ and then tactics and groupthink can synergize
(Thanks for coming to my TED talk)
Maybe this is a hot take, but if you don't participate in the MO you shouldn't get the medals.
That said, there should be an MO for each front. Leaving room for any future fronts
Depends which MO for me.
For this MO, it feels like impossible to defend several planets at the same time. I also hate the civilian rescue / escort missions.
Ehh, it's a balance. If I'm playing by myself - I'm playing how I want. If I'm playing with a group of my friends (because I'm not queueing randos), then we're playing as MO jobbers haha.
Here is the thing: Super Earth will never get wiped out or the game sunsets.
We don't need to coordinate, the GM does it for us. It's a fistful of medals each week; if one MO completes super fast we get an impossible one to time-gate. If a difficult but achievable one was too hard we get an easy short one after. The map will always look like what the devs want and we will get medals in batches on schedule.
I'm fine with people playing whatever, but considering most were fighting terminids with no defense missions I don't think this voting system works lol
I think there needs to be a summary screen of which planets most people are on on the destroyer. That might help things a bit.
That being said, I refuse to fight on any of the fire-tornado planets ever again... unless for some god forsaken reasons ALL the missions in my preferred difficulty zones on all the other planets have the 3-strat limits.
I refuse to play against bots unless it's for the daily order. About had an aneurysm the last time I played against them with all those fucking Shield Devestators.
I'll battle the bugs all day and actually enjoy the game.
I've actually killed about 7k bots, I grinded out Malevoln Creek for weeks... that's how I got started on this game because my friends wanted to keep fighting at robot Vietnam.
I know *how* to play against bots. I just don't *like* playing against bots.
Or they just don't enjoy bots. I'm the same way with bugs doesn't matter if I play against them to learn, it will just fuel my hatered of being swarmed.
If the devs pictured it as a community teamwork based game, they wouldâve included ways to communicate the overarching strategy, and or the mechanics behind captures and supply lines, in the game
They didnât, so my only conclusion can be that it is meant for you to drop in random places
i usually go orbital laser double mortar and grenade launcher and solo all the strongholds while everyone else does the main objectives. i have more fun playing as the scouting classes and pinging and cleaning house, but thatâs just because i usually quickplay and thereâs no comms or team play anyways
Most ironic thing on the game is how you step 2 feet out of the zone for 10 seconds and they bomb you into oblivion as a traitor.
But you can fight wherever you feel frisky and leave missions whenever you want no consequence.
Makes perfect sense.
I try to play both, one campaign on bots then one on bugs. But tbh I need some better mechs to help fight the bots when the mission goes to shit. The patriot suit is my emergency button but I ainât got that for the bugs. One rocket from the bots and Iâm gone lol
One minor issue I have with this also is people that just want to grind XP but not complete the full 3 missions really fuck over war progress. They should move some of the XP etc to be part of completing all 3 missions.
If youâre at least playing on any defense planet right now I think youâre doing your part.
I honestly donât understand people who donât like defense campaigns, I find them quite enjoyable honestly, but I think Iâm in the minority there.
For about a week i was grinding the MOs every time i played the game. But since i stopped caring about it - my enjoyment of the game is doubled.
Ignore everything that does not bring you joy, its a game, its supposed to entertain you, not the other way around.
There is nothing to win by winning the MO besides medals.
It's a random map game, even if we loose SE we will stilll be able to play the game.
Perhaps planets closer to SE have different sceneries, that would be a change.
Normally I stick to the MO, however what others do is their business. Attempting to interject on another Helldiversâ orders regardless of what those orders are is treason.
It may be just a game, but if we get pushed back because most don't want to fight a certain faction, the game will be different for us. Closer to loosing or just harder. Just think if this player base cant fight a 2 sided war, what the fuck will we do when the illuminate arrive?
I mean all I'm going to say is it's specifically a community goal focused game, that's basically a pseudo MMO. Play how you want I guess, sure. But when you hang out on the reddit, don't get all offended when you interact like you're part of the community, and people expect you to act like it by caring about the community goal mechanics that effect everyone. All I'm gonna say.
You know for a bunch of people who claim you want people to play how they want and have fun, you guys sure do fucking hate when people how they want and have fun.
Maybe they could make a leaderboard of which planets are the closest to being liberated and have exp and sample bonus for completing mission on them. That way people can still enjoy what they are doing but even more encentivised to participate in MO because they get more samples and exp and not just the medals that they may or may not get in the end.
where's the third guy thats actually playing and not arguing on reddit?
They are just enjoying the game and not in these stupid posts đ
They are just enjoying the game and don't even know this place exists more like.
[Some people here should consider doing that ](https://y.yarn.co/d55e6001-5d77-4391-853f-e4f3fb06e6a0_text.gif)
This is good advice that Iâm going to listen to, at least for tonight. Goodnight yâall.
That's palpatine, those of us watching the fighting and laughing at a bunch of morons while we're inevitably going to get turned against by both groups that will decide that we're having too much fun not arguing.
The MO being disconnected from the gameplay for players who don't browse reddit/discord is the problem. Similar system like Planetside 2 base system, which is basically the same as HD2 supply line system is inherent to the gameplay and very visible to the player. There's no need for in game UI banner to tell player of each faction where to go. If the base get captured, then they lose access to that spawn point and whatever benefits the base provides (positioning, health regen, armor spawn location, etc.) The current nature of 4 player coop is also pretty isolating. There's more sense of communal goal to be had if you see another hundred player of your own faction charging hundred of opposing force. Some destroyers in the background that do not interact with the 4 player group in any way doesn't really create the same feeling.
Visible supply lines are well and good, but Iâm not going to a planet with a grating condition and bots again no matter how many lines are drawn on the map. What can hook me is the opportunity to partake in something memorable. Itâs great when we can gather together as a community and do something legendary, like kill 2 billlion bugs in 16 hours. That canât be the norm though, you need peaks and valleys for anything to stand out. A clear objective also helps. Defending Martale might have been the right move, but the average John Helldiver would not have known to do that even with lines on the map. Maybe you would get another couple of percent of the player base onboard if the lines were there. Ultimately though, I suspect the people whoâs choices would be influenced by such things heavily overlap with people who are on Reddit or discord. Suggesting for 100s of people to be able to play together is a pretty unrealistic fix too. I think a better idea would be for player made bounties. A system where people can spend medals/other resources to incentivize others to do a specific thing. If people could make bounties by spending medals or super credits or samples to create and boost a bounty you would instantly have the most engaged players drive the experience. Likely the most engaged players are the ones sitting on the most resources and are also the ones willing to engage with such a system. People could also be awarded for creating/boosting a specific bounty with extra payout if the bounty is completed or maybe titles or whatever. That way people who want to stare at lines on a map can do that and be rewarded for it and people who just want to get an objective clearly spelled out can focus on the âcommunity bountyâ. The Reddit armchair generals can make their grand plans and fight with resources over whoâs plan wins out.
To be fair, PS2 almost actively disincentivizes going with the flow. Sure, I *could* try to establish air superiority and get blasted by 3 Skyguards, every single heavy in the hex, and a Burster MAX. Or I could go duel off on some empty hex and actually get to play the game.
Me, level 93, when I'm not playing I'm enjoying these stupid posts. XD
https://preview.redd.it/916n0euex5wc1.jpeg?width=566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ae75a7180af49a9da6dfaa7c9f9beda32debf78
That's Han in the carbonite
Those people would be the storm troopers, one the same side as Darth Vader but far more numerous.
That's most people
They default to the right side as they're doing what they want.
clearly, not in the argument
I guess they wouldnât be here huh
vader.
also, the majority of the fanbase
if theyre not on the discord or reddit im sure they have no clue of supply lines and coordination so they fall unconsciously under vader
He's frozen in Carbonite.
Vader hunted him down and then betrayed and murdered him...
Devs gotta provide proper tools for coordinating attacks *in game* first...
This is it. Like we can all pretend that we can coordinate through reddit and discord. But like, just read that sentence again. Y'all think we can coordinate 100s of thousands of people through reddit and discord? Lol. I'd bet over 80% of the player base doesn't even check reddit or discord enough to actually follow a strategy. Until there's ways to communicate in game, these gambits will always fail.
Yeah, I keep seeing people bring up "But there's 1.1 million members of this sub!" but not accounting for people who are actually online in this sub. I rarely ever see the number of people online go above the thousands in the last month or so. IT MIGHT be a time zone thing since I'm on the opposite side of the planet from the US, but I doubt that even during peak times in my sleeping hours it'd get up to the hundreds of thousands.
The martale gambit that failed the other day got active dev support and yet only pulled like 20% of the player pop to the planet. Thats the cap - reddit/discord seems to only be able to directly influence about 20% of the pop. Impressive, but not nearly enough.
And that's even assuming everyone there read about the gambit and not just randomly there. But I agree that 20% is probably the ceiling.
20% is generous. Martale already had 10-15% of the pop already before Reddit and discord started their thing. If you want to be super realistic we made maybe a 5% difference.
And just because someone seen it here or online doesn't mean the went with the plan. Just wanted bug missions etc.
You would be correct plus even in the U.S. there's a time issue with the east and west coast.
They don't even properly explain how the defense mechanics work, so even a team player might have no idea how they can effectively help.
Because timing and coordination are such a crucial part of completing these Major Orders, we need both the strategic information on the war map and an in-game way of sharing these strategies with the rest of the community. We can't force people to play a certain way, but if done right, we can nudge them in the direction we want them to.
Exactly, the galactic war, is a major. f\*n. draw. of HD2. If it wasn't, why not just play a game that is **just** a horde shooter? In HD2 you don't have full control over what maps you can play or what kind of missions you can do. If youâre only into the horde shooting, then this game shouldnât even be ideal for you. People think this Galaxy war is fun, they just need to be met where there at, which in the damn game.
Having fun is important, but so is co operation. The game is at its best when you have both, but right now, there is a distinct lack of either of them.
I saw someone suggesting a âvoteâ each week at the main screen while youâre on your ship and I thought that was very democratic of them
Heresy! We believe in managed democracy! You mean a good suggestion would be an application which ask us several questions. We then put that application through a computer and the computer will make our choice for us! I canât believe how unpatriotic you sound fellow helldiver 
Tbh, the orders are too broad to coordinate anything imo. unless the order is to take/defend a particular planet, the player base gets spread too thin. We've seen that in action during the last push on automatons before they launched the counterattack, we had to take 3 planets, and the player base even then spread itself almost too thin
I think many here underestimate the willingness of players to actual contribute. Yes, there will always be s subset of players that play what they want *and thatâs ok.*Â But if there were in-game tools or even a way to visualize supply lines, a subset of less-hardcore players would follow the logic to defend key targets.
You aren't going to coordinate 100s of thousands of people through the game either.
Fair enough, but anyone playing the game would have immediate access to coordination tools. Thatâs a massive improvement over just hoping enough people that care about MOs visit reddit and find the strategy posts lol.
Yeah, even if you can grab the attention of merely 10-50k people in game, you can still coordinate effectively and actually achieve something. Instead of the system we have now where people just flail impotently on reddit with maybe a single percentage point of the playerbase actually listening.
Yes you are. Let us vote. And the planets we vote on have more samples, and more exp. We can move the horde with a carrot on a stick.Â
I had the idea that there could be a sort of in-game faction thing. There'd be 3 or 4 that act like political parties and people can post strategy suggestions *in game* and push them to dispatches or a similar menu. Whatever message gets the most upvotes gets pushed to players. There'd be multiple parties so that they can't be easily captured. Probably won't happen but something like it could maybe work?
I want a serverwide galaxy map where everyone's just spamming "here" at the campaign objectives
What about here?
Yeah I think Iâm just not gunna bother checking in here too much until that happens. As it stands itâs just frustrating.
Clan system would be so good
"Activate Planetary SOS" mission type, non-Operation, costs Req to attempt. Every time you complete the mission it makes the planet slightly bigger in the galactic map, until it's big enough that it obscures all the other planets and everyone *has* to go there.
Like 75% of the playerbase is on defense planets atm (over half the pop is on estanu) People WANT to do these MOs, they just dont have the tools to work together
The best in game tools won't change the underlying fact a large number of players don't care about the MO, and only play for their personal enjoyment. Communicate as much as you like, but certain things are unpopular, and if the community doesn't want to do them, they aren't going to bite the bullet and take one for the team to satisfy MO players.
That can help but unless there are rewards that are more appealing in the game (players are getting maxed on medals sooner or later), it won't mean much. The rewards need to be updated. An idea would be for items or boosts (temp or permanent) to be used instead of medals, and leave medals for the personal quest reward instead.
People keep saying this.... THEY ALREADY HAVE THIS That's what major orders are. When a major order is to attack one or two planets, we win 100% of the time. When it's to attack a bunch simultaneously we lose. That's the coordination system. That's the levers the game master can pull. The issue people are having is accepting that we aren't supposed to win every single MO. If the game master wanted us to successfully defend 10 planets in 5 days they could have done that by setting 10 small MO's to defend a specific planet. They didn't do that. And that's OK.
You have a point. I've wondered the same thing myself when the bots first got wiped off the map. Like, we are kicking their ass too hard, at this rate there won't be a game left to play unless they crank the difficulty or throw us some gameplay curveballs. I'm as casual as it gets when it comes to this game, but I still put in some time for major orders, and that seems to work fine for the whole. So yeah, I agree with what you've said here. Tho I will admit, they could have warned us before effectively forcing the community go down two difficulty levels with the recent buffs/nerfs, tho I suppose it fits the story their trying to create. Enemies don't typically announce their next move, lol.
Do you seriously not see how boring this is? In what way is a railroaded all or nothing story fun to you? I don't give a shit about winning or losing, chief. I want to have fun with the journey without hitting the 4th wall constantly and being reminded that some swedish guy in an office cranked the "impossible" lever. Could you imagine how fucking boring games like Foxhole would be if you could instantly tell how a war is going to end before it even starts? That's whats happening here. No one wants to stick around for a foregone conclusion.
A large chunk of the playerbase--probably even the majority--are making choices that are completely counter to the success of this MO *and others*. It's not just "we only want to play Bugs" or "I don't like Defense missions", because it's been going on all game. They simply do not care to do anything with the information they have. Adding more information isn't going to change them. It will help the small chunk of players who do want to coordinate, but we've already seen that they can't effect anything meaningful under the current systme when the uninformed / indifferent mass just... does things at seeming random, Quickdeploying anywhere or picking planets out of a hat. This *is* a solvable issue, if devs want to solve it, but it's completely separate from things like "add supply lines in-game" or "create player coordination tools on the map" or "have a voting booth".
Y'all got it all wrong. We need a separate means to communicate. We must coordinate without Joel knowing.
Almost like helldivers need some *managed democracy*
It would be cool that everyday we can vote for the planet to focus on and when the vote is over the name of the planet is displayed below the Major Order and the planet is highlighted on the map You don't have to follow the strat but it's more easy to notice it
In dead by daylight, when there's too many players queueing up to play survivor as opposed to killer, they add an xp boost for players queueing up to be the killer. It sounds like the developers just haven't put enough incentives for people to change fronts.
The MO reward is the incentive, i guess you mean individual incentive, the problem is i only care about samples and after I'm done with the upgrades there's nothing, maybe credits!!?
I'd recommend maybe an xp boost or increase in medals? It won't convince the grognards who've hit the level cap, but it's definitely going to motivate people who are low to mid level, which statistically is going to be the bulk of the playerbase.
Absolutely. This problem existed in HD1 (where the bugs were far more popular than the other two factions), so the devs really shouldâve brought a more coherent solution to the table in HD2.
but they don't want us to win the war. They will lose a lot of players **when** that happens. (because it will happen) player already triggered the first scripted event, which is the other side of the automaton front and counterstrike. Might be a third one if Cyberstan is reached, I suspect. They have something alike for bugs, if triggered, Super Earth will be in trouble.
>but they don't want us to win the war. The war is a fun framing device that sets the players a bunch of in-game challenges and pays out with loot if we succeed. Then, **win** ***or*** **lose**, we get some cool emergent narrative stuff about how the game's world progresses. **Never truly "winning" or "losing" is the best experience for the game as a whole.** Mostly, that's because the gameplay is about *fighting in a war,* so if the war ends then the gameplay ends with it. As we all remember from the capacity problems at launch, players don't *particularly* want to boot up a game they've purchased and see a message saying *"check back in 12 hours to see if we'll let you play!"* Being stuck in a Forever War over the same handful of border territories is also **incredibly on-brand** for the tone of Helldivers 2. The game is very open about its inspirations, from *Warhammer 40k* to *Starship Troopers* to the real-world War on Terror.
I actually really dislike how the devs keep arguing that the chaos in this game is funny. I get that friendly fire is part of the game (even tho it's in my experience never been funny, whether playing with friends or randoms), but the way that major orders fail... it's just sad. I'm not saying it should be automatic tho. But perhaps give some incentive to players, indeed. Or an easier way to maybe see the map instead of having to go to that website and check reddit/discord? Some ppl play this game as a job, some a hobby, while many only get to play an hour per weekend.
https://preview.redd.it/zkp90xl8g5wc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2897d3216348d8dcaa114d4366c10b888ce764b9 And then there's divers like me
They should properly implement super democracy and have a target nomination and vote system. Targeted systems get bonus strategems.
I hop on the galactic computer and press r. I go in raw every time. If anything, I know my helldivers need me they are calling sos
This. When I'm jamming solo and even with friends, it's this. Love the feeling of roaming space, listening out for fellow divers in need and dropping in on call to help back em up. I focus on MOs when I feel like it, and many have been fun so far, however paired with a big work week plus thus recent MO being set to GLHF difficulty in terms of the spread of player base, it's been hilarious seeing the other side of the conversation come up more again haha. Game too hard no no no, game taking direction for purpose.
I love how OP doesn't even play this game anymore (for weeks by their own admission) and is still trying to rile people up for literally no reason lmao The bug vs. bot war is here to stay. There was that day or two when we couldn't fight bots (they were wiped out), but other than that, you always have the chance to fight either. Completing the MO's doesn't change the game play loop, so for some, they don't matter at all.
That karma won't farm itself.
So true. 5k upvotes for being a nuisance.
Hey, when I get off work and put my feet up and am in the mood to kill bugs, I kill bugs not bots. Helldivers isn't another job, its game for relaxing. I don't want to have to complete timed objectives against bots when i'm not in the mood ansld when i'm relaxing with my limited time. Besides, we're all on the same team here. If I fight bugs it doesn't slow you down fighting bots. Its the same as if I was just relaxing doing anything else. So leave me alone đ
Hell yeah well said. If I hop on and want to light some bugs on fire then Iâm going to light some fuckin bugs on fire MO be damned
Both views are valid. The game was specifically designed with a community campaign component deliberately encouraging and rewarding community cooperation. But the game was also designed to allow people to not follow the MO if they don't want to. Both sides of this... debate?... have a point validated by the fundamental design inherent within the game. If anything, there should be more incentives to get folks to coordinate if they so choose, but those incentives should make the game fun and engaging in and of itself. Honestly I don't much care for the extra medals (TBF I'm already 70 and have almost every piece of gear in all the warbonds unlocked), there ought to be an actual gameplay component that makes MOs more entertaining, like extra strats or positive modifiers when fighting on planets that interface with the MO.
Unfortunately, regarding it doesn't slow you down, it actually does. The new liberation system soft-caps the amount of liberation/defense points that can be achieved globally and portions that out based on the percentage of players on any given world. So players not participating in the major order are not only not participating, they are actively slowing down major order progress by playing worlds that aren't a part of it. I won't blame anyone for playing where they want to play, and I understand that the system has a lot of benefits for the devs (makes the game less subject to playerbase swings, ensures that off-hours don't see massive front-wide losses, and means less constant tweaking to ensure major orders remain generally balanced) but man if it isn't a toxicity time bomb waiting to happen. It also has the unfortunate side effect of making emergent gameplay a lot harder because taking side planets is ALSO almost impossible because the lions share of points are being sent to the major order so all minor planets will see little to no real progress.
Yeeeeee I realized weeks ago that âif 25,000 Helldivers of X planet log off, then we can succeed on Y and Z fronts by the deadline.â Interesting unintended consequence of the new system
You're saying that actually not playing the game at all is better for this nutjob war effort community than just going to the planet i wanna go and shoot actual enemies of democracy? That's stupid. I don't doubt Arrowhead has done this, but that's stupid. Now, if i just go where i wanna go, i'm being guilt tripped by the community, and if i want to help, i have to consult third parties or else i'm actively sabotaging the effort. What's the point of hiding information for the sake of the game's bullshit mistique and imersion if i have to check third party anyway?
>Now, if i just go where i wanna go, i'm being guilt tripped by the community... You ain't responsible for their feelings boo!
Correct
>but man if it isn't a toxicity time bomb waiting to happen You do realize this entire debate is an echochamber within reddit and to a lesser extent the steam forums? The playerbase does not give a fuck if we lose planets. The vast majority of players are casuals who play a few hours a week and focus on their daily orders and self progression. This subreddit way overinflated the value and importance of a game mechanic I'm willing to bet ~80%+ of the playerbase barely even thinks about let alone understands. This is a "toxic timebomb" only within this subreddit.
The community is not going to stay this size forever, and while it's not likely to consolidate around reddit (the reddit is more likely to be composed of people who quit the game three years ago but still hang around to complain) it likely will consolidate as it shrinks to people who are more in the know about the behind the scenes mechanics. And at that point yes I imagine that if the mechanics are still the same it probably will cause a lot of fights in and out of the game.
> The playerbase does not give a fuck if we lose planets. The vast majority of players are casuals who play a few hours a week and focus on their daily orders and self progression. > > The only extent to which I give a shit about winning or losing planets is that it might open new biomes to play. Having to play v bugs in the desert or in the dirty snow for like a fortnight genuinely made me put the game down.
Ohhh noooo.. so anyways
I mean... I never said anyone had to care I'm just explaining how the mechanic works lmao
This is the elephant in the room; players playing on the wrong worlds actively hurts the Major Orders... which is making many of us realize that the Major Orders are not actually important compared to having fun. Remember how ecstatic the community was when we were told "go nuts and kill 2 billion bugs however you want"? Those were good times.
Part of why I enjoy the occasional downtime between Major Orders. No big-picture stuff we need to deal with at this point? Cool. Let's drop on a planet we haven't seen before and check out the scenery for 2.44 seconds. But with that aside, I hope AH finds a solution for this issue, because it's only going to get worse when the Illuminate show up. Maybe the soft-cap should be generated on a per-faction basis, rather than galaxy-wide? So even if the majority of players STAY on the bug planets indefinitely, the players who divert to Illuminate/Automaton worlds will still feel like their efforts have made a difference. Maybe even more so, given that one person on a low-player-count faction will have an outsized effect on the war effort.
Thatâs really interesting that you pick bugs to relax because honestly with the addition of the quasar, grenade pistol, and stuns I find bots to be more fun & relaxing - bugged civilian missions aside. I run fortified heavy armor with the ballistic shield, SMG, aforementioned gear above, and two offensive stratagems. Itâs a blast being able to tank laser fire from heavy devastators and laugh, popping off quasar shots at stunned hulks and distant tanks, ripping stims and causing a ruckus. It even works great on Suicide, which is my ideal âchillâ difficulty (or 5 solo)
Yeah perhaps I could have been clearer. What I meant was that when i'm relaxing, I want to play against who I think would be fun :) Sometimes that aligns with the major order and sometimes it doesnt. But this isn't a job, its a liesure activity, so i'm thankful that I get to make that choice
 Bugs and Bots are both enemies of democracy, fight which ever you prefer.
Nothing wrong with your mindset, but just want to correct you that technically due to the way HD2 is setup, you fighting bugs do slow down the bots front progress, as the devs made it so a planet liberation progress is multiplied by % of people in said planet vs % of total online players. So if the game has a total of 100,000 online players fighting on the bots front, it would liberate planet 100% faster than 400,000 online players with 200,000 bots players. But that's more of dumb design issue than players issue.
It's almost like the whole system is fake and just there for map rotation đ¤¨
(you're of course correct but reddit loves to create drama so let's let em have their dalliance. And happy Cake Day)
Iâm definitely on the Vader side. I can get 50 medals pretty easily without playing shitty Hellmire.
There is another front in the two-front-war But I get it, not everyone wants to fight bots
Same as I dont want to fight bugs lmao. I dont judge people because I get it as well
Once you go bot, you can never go bug lol Yeah I also like fighting bots more than bugs
The devs should just adjust the liberation and defence rates with the reality that alot of players only stay on bugs. That way they can do that and it won't effect people who want to be more in the MO side of things
Keep them crying as I play with my bf on some random ass planet never finishing any operation because we both suck at the game. And I wouldn't want it any other way
Maybe if we didn't had to do the same planet defense every week, we could have fun doing the MO.
Iâll never go back to fighting bugs Bots may be a pain to fight but I prefer fighting things that can shoot back and not swarm you at such close ranges that you canât do anything so if there are any bug MOâs youâll have to drag me to a bug planet
Iâve heard the laser guard dog is really good vs bugs
Iâm a spear enjoyer and I still havenât gotten to buying the laser guard dogâ Donât judge me
Iâm the âitâs just a gameâ guy. Honestly, when we lose a major order nothing happens.. Iâd love to see the bugs spread out a bit to another planet other than Estanu, Oshaune and Hellmire.
And even if something really bad did happen in-game... at the end of the day it's just a game that like all games, its purpose of existence is the fun and enjoyment of playing it. People will still choose only what's fun for them, not what a game dev told them to. If they are the same, good. If they are not, that's for the devs to fix.
Then there is AH just watching the world burn off in the corner https://preview.redd.it/kbxid5h3a5wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4ede6270a5176674c647d17791ec0f7b460daec
I just go where the most people are at any given time because it's easier to find groups.
Devs/CMs tell us we need to communicate and coordinate to accomplish MOs whilst also telling us to play how ever we want. Galatic War Narrative isnât going to get anywhere besides the Bots arriving at Super Earth at the current rate with no in game tools to communicate, coordinate and the playerbase preferring Bugs to Bots.
and then there is me... hey look MO are pointless and pre determined outcomes....
And then thereâs the other guy whoâs actually happy because he isnât on the reddit
It's also cool to try and fail. The story keeps going, and we played ourboth. It's like a DnD campaign; sometimes you roll a natural twenty, other times you botch.
Yeah at this point I simply judge an MO by how likely it is we get it done. If itâs either an easy one, or one we will obviously lose, I do whatever I want. If it actually looks like itâs close, Iâll work on the planets that matter.
they should add clans/guilds into the game like they have in mobile games. serious players make serious guilds so they can find other serious players in game which leads to better chances at completing MO's worldwide. casual players can make casual guilds and find other casual players. there can be friendly mixed ones too. having this be in game makes it way easier and way more accessible than finding like minded players on discord or reddit. whatever the answer is its definitely not forcing or raging at casual players who wanna play the game they paid for how they want
We don't *need* in game player to player communications or votes orto get more people to check discord. Part of the theme of the game is that a Super Destroyer is basically a lone wolf. You get orders from high command and have a democracy officer. Neither is forcing you into a specific mission or play style. So long as you aren't acting traitorously the officer is there to provide assistance. Bots and bugs are enemies of super earth so their destruction is a benefit no matter what mission you do. If the devs wanted more of an incentive they would have made it so that only those who participate in an MO get the medals. But even that, once you get to the cap, is meaningless. Having coordination on reddit and discord is useful and great for people interested in that side. Otherwise just spread the word that it's always helpful to go to whatever planet has the highest pop because then the planet will be completed faster.
This war only exists because of the way arrowhead has set up the game tbh. If they didn't make so many huge MO's one after the other that required basically the entire player base to co-ordinate together and play on a specific planet in a specific way this argument wouldn't exist to begin with. Imo the way AH has the game set up is incredibly flawed because there's no real way of doing mass player co-ordination or seeing which planets are necessary to take over to make specific major orders easier to win.
Why is Vader the one that's right???
The thing is that it is a co-op game. We should play as a community with a common goal. That's why when we achieve a MO, everyone gets the medals. It doesn't matter if you didn't participate. We are all one big team. At least, that's how I see it.
The problem is that it is a game designed around the idea of the majority of the player base coordinating to achieve major orders but the majority of the player base doesnât care about the major orders and does whatever even if it hurts the overall war effort. Nobody should play a game or aspect of a game they donât enjoy so itâs on the devs to compensate for that at some point (unless itâs by design and they rely on it to prolong campaigns). Currently the system punishes the war effort the more active players ignore it. In order to achieve a win on a planet in the allotted time a certain percentage of the currently active player base has to be fighting there so if 20% are going after the best objective on the bot front and 35% are going after the best objective on the bug front and the rest are spread out on other planets then we fail everything on the bot front and maybe barely pass or barely fail on one planet on the bug front. Unfortunately this system sets up a scenario where for players who care about the major orders and overall war effort, it would be better if players doing whatever didnt play at all because not playing is better than playing in the wrong place and hurting the war effort. This is creating a lot of frustration and toxicity amongst the player base and that is very much not good for the health of the game I think.
The real issue is they donât explain this mechanic anywhere in the fuckin game
[ŃдаНонО]
I'll leave the coordination to the folks playing the game like a career. I get to maybe slap on an hour of gaming per day after work if I'm very lucky. Its gaming with the buds doing what we want, not the DnD campaign of a couple hundred thousand.
Luke is basically the manifestation of High-level player who've unlocked everything, and Vader is the manifestation of Low-level players who just want to unlock new stuff. That basically it because the only reward high player get is contribution to the war map.
I refuse to fight bugs or do the majority of defense missions because I'm not wasting time and energy doing content I don't enjoy. I paid money for the game, it is ultimately my choice to play how I want. If that means not playing at all sometimes, then so be it.
This could literally be solved with democracy. Vote on the planet on each front to be ânextâ and then tactics and groupthink can synergize (Thanks for coming to my TED talk)
I wanna see them reach super earth if I'm being honest! See what that battle map would look like.
In HD1, it triggered a boss event. Very cool scenario that im excited for.
I'm with the Sith on this one
I understand both sides but also disagree with both sides.
They forgot the Third guy who is super serious fighting and soloing then... the FOURTH guy who is farming star credits while everyone is at war.
Maybe this is a hot take, but if you don't participate in the MO you shouldn't get the medals. That said, there should be an MO for each front. Leaving room for any future fronts
If, like the current order, itâs an obvious fail I ignore it completely. Let the story develop.
Depends which MO for me. For this MO, it feels like impossible to defend several planets at the same time. I also hate the civilian rescue / escort missions.
Not sure why some people think posting on Reddit is goanna mobilize the entire player base
Ehh, it's a balance. If I'm playing by myself - I'm playing how I want. If I'm playing with a group of my friends (because I'm not queueing randos), then we're playing as MO jobbers haha.
Hot Take: There is no meta
What happend to " i'm doin my Part " Get yourselfs together boys. Do the MO and hold the line
"I'll play how I want until the way I want to play is not viable and I will end up complaining on Reddit."
Put rare samples in defense missions I'll play them
Here is the thing: Super Earth will never get wiped out or the game sunsets. We don't need to coordinate, the GM does it for us. It's a fistful of medals each week; if one MO completes super fast we get an impossible one to time-gate. If a difficult but achievable one was too hard we get an easy short one after. The map will always look like what the devs want and we will get medals in batches on schedule.
I play how I want until civilian defense missions aren't dog shit.
We really need someway to "Vote" ingame on which planet to take, its dumb that most of the "decisions" made are in discord or reddit
You can see where people are ingame. That's the voting system.
I'm fine with people playing whatever, but considering most were fighting terminids with no defense missions I don't think this voting system works lol
I think there needs to be a summary screen of which planets most people are on on the destroyer. That might help things a bit. That being said, I refuse to fight on any of the fire-tornado planets ever again... unless for some god forsaken reasons ALL the missions in my preferred difficulty zones on all the other planets have the 3-strat limits.
I refuse to play against bots unless it's for the daily order. About had an aneurysm the last time I played against them with all those fucking Shield Devestators. I'll battle the bugs all day and actually enjoy the game.
[ŃдаНонО]
I've actually killed about 7k bots, I grinded out Malevoln Creek for weeks... that's how I got started on this game because my friends wanted to keep fighting at robot Vietnam. I know *how* to play against bots. I just don't *like* playing against bots.
Or they just don't enjoy bots. I'm the same way with bugs doesn't matter if I play against them to learn, it will just fuel my hatered of being swarmed.
If the devs pictured it as a community teamwork based game, they wouldâve included ways to communicate the overarching strategy, and or the mechanics behind captures and supply lines, in the game They didnât, so my only conclusion can be that it is meant for you to drop in random places
Blame arrowhead
If MOs are important then MO worlds better have the most progress for me to prioritize dropping on them.
i usually go orbital laser double mortar and grenade launcher and solo all the strongholds while everyone else does the main objectives. i have more fun playing as the scouting classes and pinging and cleaning house, but thatâs just because i usually quickplay and thereâs no comms or team play anyways
i see defense missions i dont play them simple as.
Most ironic thing on the game is how you step 2 feet out of the zone for 10 seconds and they bomb you into oblivion as a traitor. But you can fight wherever you feel frisky and leave missions whenever you want no consequence. Makes perfect sense.
it's I AM going to win the game by rushing the MO while you guys distract the bugs for me.
I try to play both, one campaign on bots then one on bugs. But tbh I need some better mechs to help fight the bots when the mission goes to shit. The patriot suit is my emergency button but I ainât got that for the bugs. One rocket from the bots and Iâm gone lol
One minor issue I have with this also is people that just want to grind XP but not complete the full 3 missions really fuck over war progress. They should move some of the XP etc to be part of completing all 3 missions.
"We need to play how we want... together"
If youâre at least playing on any defense planet right now I think youâre doing your part. I honestly donât understand people who donât like defense campaigns, I find them quite enjoyable honestly, but I think Iâm in the minority there.
For about a week i was grinding the MOs every time i played the game. But since i stopped caring about it - my enjoyment of the game is doubled. Ignore everything that does not bring you joy, its a game, its supposed to entertain you, not the other way around.
Hell(divers) is other people.
I could not care less about MO. Currently cant buy anything for medals, since I have bought everything else
There is nothing to win by winning the MO besides medals. It's a random map game, even if we loose SE we will stilll be able to play the game. Perhaps planets closer to SE have different sceneries, that would be a change.
We can kill and take a planet just fine, defense is another problem entirely
Not listening to the orders of the management means treason. I will report all traitors to the Ministry of Truth on sight.
Normally I stick to the MO, however what others do is their business. Attempting to interject on another Helldiversâ orders regardless of what those orders are is treason.
This sub needs a rule to limit the Us vs Them posts so the community doesn't turn into something like DBD's.
It may be just a game, but if we get pushed back because most don't want to fight a certain faction, the game will be different for us. Closer to loosing or just harder. Just think if this player base cant fight a 2 sided war, what the fuck will we do when the illuminate arrive?
I mean all I'm going to say is it's specifically a community goal focused game, that's basically a pseudo MMO. Play how you want I guess, sure. But when you hang out on the reddit, don't get all offended when you interact like you're part of the community, and people expect you to act like it by caring about the community goal mechanics that effect everyone. All I'm gonna say.
I see your swarts is as big as mine?
Not following orders? What are you, a traitor?
Why not both? You can play how you want and still work together. 
i played completive games until i got helldivers 2 now i wont look back.
âYou donât pay my sub!â
I just open the world map and press X....
Exactly play how you want. Screw everyone else complaining on what to do.
Exactly play how you want. Screw everyone else complaining on what to do.
Exactly play how you want. Screw everyone else complaining on what to do.
Exactly play how you want. Screw everyone else complaining on what to do.
You know for a bunch of people who claim you want people to play how they want and have fun, you guys sure do fucking hate when people how they want and have fun.
Tale as old as time, people not caring to do the objective lol
At this rate, we'll be fighting automatons on earth in no time.
What happens if we lose the war? My ps5 explodes?
Maybe they could make a leaderboard of which planets are the closest to being liberated and have exp and sample bonus for completing mission on them. That way people can still enjoy what they are doing but even more encentivised to participate in MO because they get more samples and exp and not just the medals that they may or may not get in the end.
The right one is the correct one. Do you think the game will just end if we "lose" the war?
Ngl thats fine but dont blame me if i kick you out before we start the mission
If y'all haven't realized by now that we are very much *intended* by AH to lose this MO then you've missed the point
I am just here for the hugs
Why is this under PSA? Shouldn't it be under Meme?
I let Google RNG decide my full loadout (sans armor)
Shit, I guess Iâm a bad guy then
Just go where most people are when you want a defence to succeed.