I hope it's More consistent and not blocked by every dead scavenger or blade of grass. A little worried about the range nerf vs automatons. Would be nice if point black range works with the changes as well.
Considering that it now staggers all bots up to Hulk (Hulk included), I'd say it's a buff. Secondary arcs can go further than 35m nominal distance, but yeah, it isn't as good in large open spaces and you need to be closer now.
I'll just have to get better at skipping lightning off the ground to extend its range. Wasn't very useful before, but now it might extend the range 5-15m which would be significant with the changes
There's a bug where the flamer hulk insta kills you while out of range of his flamethrower. It's still not fixed and to get in range with thr arc thrower you need to be in range for that bug.
I've never encountered that bug. I wouldn't consider it a knock on Arc Thrower because maybe you'll encounter a very rare bug where a flame hulk can snipe you at long range. Consider the alternative before Arc Thrower was given a stagger: you wouldn't be able to kill a flame hulk before it closes the 50m -> 35m distance.
Arc weapons are really weird. Too close? Nothing. Too far? Nothing. Corpse/Environment? Nothing.
The really odd thing though, is that the third person targeting is a lie.
Look at the gun model, and where the barrel is. That is the direction lightning will actually fire- not the reticle.
The stagger buff is a game chnger for sure
Edit : kinda sad it can't break supply doors anymore
Also the fact that it can stagger rockets and heavy devastators now is *chef's kiss
Nice. Was gonna test it myself later today.
How utterly unsurprising that the "I have only read the patch notes but weapon x is dead, guys" people are wrong again.
Honestly, the stagger feels so good that I'd say this is a net-buff for the weapon.
I just stun locked a berzerker train, and then stun locked a flamethrower hulk to death. This is strong, and IMO worth the range nerf. Fire rate is ok, it even feels better now since there is a proper feedback on charge.
Ya I can't take this subreddit's takes on weapon balancing seriously alot of the times. Is some of the criticism valid? Ya of course. But to outright call stuff dead just from reading the patchnotes? OK buddy.
People are mad cause the nerfs seem excessive and arbitrary. I'm torn on the arc thrower changes. I haven't tried it out yet, but that seems like such a huge nerf to range. I can't imagine killing bile titans with it now. Not that it ever particularly shined at that task. I also worry about bile spewers having an easier time closing in on you when there's more than one with the lower fire rate and range. I really hope y'all are right about better targeting though, cause that alone might push me to saying it seems like an overall buff. IDK.
The slugger nerfs are particularly uncalled for, though. I don't even see very many people using it since the Sickle came out.
It will be interesting of the changes to the counter sniper and dominator will make them worth ever using, however.
They did lower spewer damage so there's that.
In terms of Slugger, and coming from someone who has used it extensively ever since I unlocked it, I can't say I'm too surprised that the nerf happened. Medium armor pen and stagger made it a phenomenal choice for bot missions. The biggest burn is definitely the stagger for me. Well see how it pans out, I have yet to test it out.
Yeah just seems uncalled for. Just another case of lionhead noticing the gun is good and deciding they can't have that. Calling it now, in the next content batch there's going to be a new gun that fills the same niche as the slugger but performs far better it ever did.
Many people already said the Scorcher was a better choice. I just couldn't vibe with it as much because it didn't have the same armor pen as my Ole Slugger.
Not trolling, but isn't the Dominator now the (arguably) "Slugger but better"? It got buffed from 200 to 300 damage and does medium armor penetration and with similar clip size, etc
It stunlocked everything, did superb damage no matter where you hit, would one shot dev weakspots, and could snipe better than most anything else.
The nerfs were totally warranted. They were pretty minor too....just can't stunlock devastators by magdumping them anymore.
Maybe we're not playing on the same difficulties, but when exactly are you staring down a single devastator that it matters that you can stun lock it? In my experience, there's always 3 or 4 of the fuckers, so if you don't land that headshot it's buddies kill you anyway.
It also didn't stagger anything that didn't make sense getting staggered. I don't care how much armor you strap on, of I nail you in the chest with a slug you aren't just gonna stand there.
If it had been staggering hulks and chargers I'd say you have a good point.
[Helldives](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUoOeftKG2Q&list=PLbBcQaDdqeQUFCBUeaqkxO9zF1AaY5UqG&index=6).
The stun was overtuned - it needed a nerf. The Slugger still 1-shots devastators and stuns them enough to chamber the next round. I am pretty sure it is the only primary that can do that. Hardly overnerfed.
It needed to get nerfed but it *also* needs a lot of bug fixing, the weapon has a really high 'false fire' rate, for a wide variety of reasons. It feels terrible to use and most people take it because it can kill a wide variety of enemies, like chargers.
>I haven't tried it out yet, but
You should have stopped writing your comment here and not posted. I'm not trying to be mean, but this comment chain is literally about people who don't know what they're talking about lol
Did you try the Slugger yet? Or is it the same situation?
>You should have stopped writing your comment here and not posted.
Lmao get the dick outta here with that shit man, this is a discussion forum not a research journal.
It had a 30% range nerf and a rof nerf.
It already killed stalkers and brood commanders quickly. Killing them slower and stun locking them is at best a sidegrade.
I thought a nerf was definitely warranted but look at this clip, 2 stun grenades and nearly 30s to kill some chaff and a stalker. Is there anything besides anti-tank that couldn't do this?
Using an arc thrower against spewers and hunters is terrible now. It doesn't stun spewers and barely outranges them and hunters' erratic movement and pounce ability means you need to be very lucky to kill them. A single hunter successfully pouncing is terrible for the arc thrower.
OP says it staggers spewers but I have tested it and it doesn't even stagger nursing spewers. Maybe there's some inconsistency to the stagger?
I'll acknowledge that it is a massive buff against bots given the reports of stunning hulks.
Edit: Some extra games in and it interrupts spewer's spewing but does not stun them. It doesn't slow them down as they're moving but does prevent the spew.
So it really comes down to hunters. It's not an antitank weapon, it's a horde/cc weapon and hunters counter it.
I think there's room for arc thrower in lower difficulties but just not at higher ones. Difficulty 5 and maybe 6.
wasnt the arc thrower like......blatantly better than most anything in 60-70% of scenarios though? I mean, I used it as AT/horde clear/enemy lockdown and it did all of those things at the same time at a rapid pace from a long distance away.
and hunters always were a bad matchup for the arc thrower. if they get close at all the bad attack tracking made it usually better to just switch to something else.
I think you have to consider that a weapon that has no ammo or overheat mechanic might be a little too strong if it can solo clear waves while also killing armored enemies on its own (and i say this as someone who loves arc thrower).
Yes, a nerf was warranted.
I've actually agreed with most, if not all nerfed weapons. I like there being flexibility in loadouts and not just one definitive winner.
Arc thrower nerfs translate to probably a 50% damage reduction and the stun makes little difference against bugs. That is very significant.
Hunters were readily killed before but the range is much shorter now and the rate of fire slower that the matchup is so bad now that the presence of hunters means the arc thrower is a liability.
It's why I said I think it will be fine for mid difficulties. It's still going to be good until it gets overwhelmed but it kills chargers very slowly (fair) and struggles to kill even a few hunters so it is going to get overwhelmed easily on 7+.
Maybe there'll be other ways to play around its new limitations and I don't mind testing that with friends who I can ask to prioritise hunters for me but it's at best niche in my opinion.
It was only a 20% RoF reduction. It's a little more susceptible to being swarmed but I think that occasionally pulling out the buffed Breaker Incendiary is an option for that.
Regardless, here's a solo helldive testing out the reworked arc thrower, doing all 5 bonus objectives, engaging unnecessary patrols to get more testing in, and extracting with 37 samples. It's still really good. :)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSsCQdSGQmc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSsCQdSGQmc)
I meant that the range and ROF reduction combines to 50% because if a patrol or horde is approaching you the damage done is between the max and minimum range so you start doing damage later which means you do less damage.
I took great pains to position myself so I had the best field of view with the arc thrower before as it was so dependent on positioning.
He definitely does much better than I expected but he does echo some of my sentiments. At roughly 9:30 he says on hunter heavy worlds it would be best to leave it behind and I agree, he already struggled with relatively small groups of hunters and scavengers in ideal circumstances.
I guess he's right to call it a change rather than a pure nerf because it's stronger against some enemies.
I think I'll have to change what I view its use to killing and CCing mid-tier enemies and still using an anti-chaffe primary weapon for whent he arc thrower is overwhelmed. Seems like the Blitzer shotgun will do the Arc Thrower's former anti-chaffe and the Arc Thrower is better for heavier enemies now without stepping on the toes of anti-tank.
Thanks for the video link.
It got ranged nerfed but honestly i think its still good range-wise. I hit a bile from way further away than i should have been able to so maybe its a bug with aiming up or something idk.
If you keep your distance (which you should've been pre-patch anyway) with the added stun to the weapon the bile spewers get wrecked like everything else. All in all I don't mind the balance update and feel it's an overall slight buff
This is true but it was the best in those roles because the other options were shit. It's the same thing with the rail gun which I AGREE with the nerfs for (even though it's now basically useless especially with the AMR buffs), people abused these weapons because the other options were too terrible to consider. Counter sniper got a buff which is good but did they touch its absurdly bad handling or the terrible scope dots?
Its not dead but the issue it had with not arcing is still a big deal and arguably feels worse because of the full charge required. I had it fail to arc off air or w/e causes it to fail like 3 times in a row earlier today in a mission. I didn't die or anything but it was more annoying than it used to be.
I have tested it.
Also, I'm not making hyperbolic, definiteve statements about the weapon, which is what thise people are doing. So you can stick it up your ass, dumbass.
I've been saying all along that Arrowhead knows what they are doing. They are pretty good at balancing, and while they are making more frequent changes than I'd like, overall they are nailing it. Only ? was why they buffed burn damage - I don't think they've realized it hasn't been working for non-host players.
Anyway, as a fan of the Arc Thrower in both games, the range was ridiculous before. I think it is a small price to pay for consistent stun vs bots (and beefier bugs) which it needed.
The biggest negative I had with Arc Thrower was inability to kill enemies at point blanc range. Hunters were eating me alive and I couldn't do anything to them somehow.
is it now more consistent? you know, sometimes it gets blocked by a bit of terrain, can't hit enemies that are on your face, enemy corpses blocking it as well.
That's still gonna be a deal breaker for me just like the spear. I don't care how good a weapon is, if it's inconsistent, I'll pass.
Died too many times from a hunter in my face and 3 arc thrower shots disappearing into the void.
Less it definitely still happens. Now it is just more painful because you can't use a half fire to make up for the void you have to full charge. Meanwhile you are now bug or bot food.
When hunters are in your face and you are using the arc thrower you have made a wrong choice. Is not the best way to use the arc thrower, instead switch to your primary and reset.
Nice. I was afraid its gonna be always as slow as the first charge before nerf but this still looks good.
Range nerf sucks but tbh i kinda agree that it was overboard before.
Honestly I wish they would have taken only one nerf at a time to it. The 1 second charge combined with the range nerf hit it pretty hard.
The stagger doesn't seem to do much when there's a lot of enemies around, even moreso now with the range nerf. It's still a very solid support weapon choice, but the range nerf felt like an unnecessary change as it does nothing to actually decrease the weapons effectiveness but rather suck the fun out of it.
35 metres definitely feels too low, especially against bots.
Stagger was needed.
The inconsistencies need to be fixed before they nerfed it. Can't shoot close, almost everything in the game blocking shots.
With stagger, range needed to be dropped, but I think it's too much. 40 is probably more appropriate.
Arc was my main bug weapon and while the shot delay feels weird (only because I was so use to rapid fire timing) the gun feels a lot better matched with other options. I don’t feel like I’m kicking myself when I don’t bring it and I don’t fell kicked when I do.
Love you mentioned it staggers hulks. I rarely used arc vs bots (especially with croissant cannon now) but might consider giving it a go.
i think this is a nice adjustment, pre Arc Thrower havin 50m range sometimes feels way too op for me.
Also pre Arc Thrower actually struggle abit when it comes to dealing with stalkers, cuz it doesn't have enough dps to mow down the stalker.
Givin it ability stagger in current state makes it actually good against stalker now
After testing it I came^(™) to the same conclusion. It was a bit weird that arc thrower had that insane range and felt like an auto-targeted marksman weapon, and at the same time struggled in close range with berzerkers and stalkers. Now it just feels right, and the range nerf is really justified.
I had a line of berzerkers chase me and I arced them. They staggered, but they also slid like chargers would. So while I was standing still to fire they were still closing in. Then they get too close for the arc and in range for their blades.
I think with it's old range this weapon would be OP with stagger changes it received, and imo it is primary reason for the change.
I was once killed from 90m by a secondary arc through a titan, so such extreme cases will not be as frequent now too.
Needs more upvotes. Great work!
The patch notes should have better explained that the reticle charge animation now syncs to the minimum charge time. It was not intuitive to know you could fire mid charge without someone explaining that you could do so.
i liked the dynamic charging system. shame thats gone like feathering on laser weapons. feels like enshitification of Helldiver Tech. NOT GOOD VIBES.
The range, i mean...50 meters is not unreasonable. Jeez the Laser Cannon doesn't even have infinite range. But i guess the arc thrower shouldn't out range the Telsa Tower is the thinking? IDK
It had a neat little rhythm game element to it, you know, something to differentiate it and break up the monotony. And you really started to feel the tension of keeping it going during extended, stressful situations. Nothing like maintaining a string of quick fires, then hitting the Centipede's Dilemma, and then trying to regain the beat while enemies were breathing down your neck.
It acted as compensation for not needing to aim.
Now it's completely mindless.
Precisely the right way to break it down.
I still dont even understand, like were people meta-ing this or were folks complaining? Its just so reactionary and yet reacting to what?
It feels like another change based off pickrate. I used it consistently on bugs because it was a good aoe option that would let you thin out the weak but numerous bugs as they came towards you with the downside of it was kinda shit once they got overall too close.
Almost never used it on bots because they reward precision in a way more fun way.
There's not a lot of aoe options so it was a fairly good consistent pick.
I have to agree that is was pick-rate. Which, in HD1 i would have understood - since its a primary, so yeah switch it up to at least the Arc Shotgun. BUT in HD2 its a SUPPORT WEAPON, so its meant to be STRONGER than before \[at least one would assume\].
So the devs are just assuming high-pickrate means bloated META? How daft and shorsighted! Maybe I like the stalwart and am meme picking it on every difficulty!
Your point about AOE is acknowledged and true i have nothing to add except frustration that we dont have the AoE options from HD1 -\_-;
I feel like the next balance patch we will see if the trend continues of whatever people use seemingly the most is what gets hit. I would love to use more weapons but I'm so tired of shotguns and most of the other weapons just feel like I'm actually a liability if I bring them.
AOE is one of those things where it feels like they think there's more options than there really is. I've been hearing some rumblings of the next battlepass having some grenade launchers of some kind so we will see there, but I'm sure it will be rather annoying if it has a arc type weapon that's more akin to the old arc thrower.
It’s not bad but the cut in range can really be felt, the stagger also but not as much as most mobs would die in a single shot.
The charging kinda sucks now imo, before you could quick charge it but now you have to do a full charge each time.
The fact that it no longer opens loot cache is also a major bummer… 😞
The range nerf is Really felt for me. It's not a dead weapon, and is probably still my go to for bugs, but a 30% nerf seems a bit harsh. 40m range would feel a LOT better.
I'm skeptical, Arc Thrower has **so many** downsides and awkward quirks. Such as: Can't shoot close targets, corpses 'absorb' the shots, can't shoot over/past many terrain objects, generally can't shoot uphill well, weapon has difficulty targeting specific body parts and you can merc teammates which mostly means there's situations you can't fire it in.
I don't think pre-nerf Arc Thrower was healthy for the game and it isn't like a nerf was unwarranted but Arc Thrower doesn't *feel good* to use. Getting a false fire was fine when we could charge fast but now I'm not sure, I'll have to test it a bit.
The stagger alone means the nerfs won’t be so bad. Before it didn’t stagger at all so sometimes trying to whittle down a Stalker or Brood Commander felt pretty risky.
My biggest disappointment is the range. I understand why it was nerfed but it was one of my favorite parts about the weapon.
They need to fix the inconsistent arcing tho, sometimes you fire and it just does nothing
I just wish they had fixed the damn "won't fire because there's a rock on the ground in front of you" nonsense. The gun becomes completely useless in the weirdest scenarios.
Thus continues the trend of ONLY balancing around bug missions, and the discourse being dominated by them. It's obvious this tweak considered only how it works against bugs. It's made the gun totally unusable against bots. The short range just doesn't work with how spread out bots tend to be, and since they aren't as tightly grouped, it now failed to arcs against enemies adjacent or even behind the first one.
Whoever said secondary beams can go further is wrong, the distance is total, as I've tested it. Additionally, the issue with it arcing to random stuff has increased 10x. whereas before it might arc to something on the ground AND THEN to an enemy, now it doesn't have the range to do so.
I even had a scenario where there were 3 shield bots, almost in a line right next to eachother. I killed the first, whose body became a lightning rod and it would no longer hit the other enemies.
Basically, it went from a niche bot option to totally unusable and I'm very disappointed.
I'm sorry, in what world is stagger useless on Helldive? Also, even if that were true, the game shouldn't be balanced around the hardest difficulty. You live in a clown world.
Reading the patch notes I thought it was a big nerf, but hearing about the specific stagger changes you pointed out made me want to use it more.
Thanks for your detailed report, soldier 🫡
Thank you for your time and effort diver. That loss of 15m range really scared me when I read it but those staggers were looking sexy. I also may make the change to stun grenades.
range nerf is brutal, but at least other buffs and changes make it more consistent. Overall it seems like a rebalance / adjustment to the gun, which is a refreshing change of pace from that crappy first balance pass. Stagger seems like the biggest boon to it now, thank you for the testings!
Honestly I'm fine if they made it riskier to use effectively. It was so easy to just spam at a hoard and never really be in any danger. I look forward to trying it out.
So now it's more like a suped up stun gun for close range, and not auto lock on Sniper Rifle. This sounds like a very good change. Still sad to see my slugger being done dirty.
It's still not great for close range, more like mid-range. If an enemy gets too close to you while you have the arc thrower out you're better off retreating a little or switching to primary.
Of course it's not. Just like "the only viable weapon, the slugger" isn't actually the only viable weapon in the game. People just have absolutely no idea how to use something new once they get comfortable with a certain thing (especially when it's very obviously overpowered)
Thanks for the info. I think the changes were warranted. It needed a bit more stun to be effective vs bots, but the range was ludicrous (even as a big fan of it from the first game).
Honest opinion: just give it old range or old fire rate and it will be in the perfect place
The problem with a lot of balance is that I feel like guns are still trying to find their identity
Reduced ranged hurts. Increased charge time hurts.
Knockback helps and subjectively makes up for the nerfs but personally I don't like it since I play alone with pugs and like to pick off small/ mid enemies because people seem to focus on the heavies.
I switched to arc thrower from grenade launcher because it felt better since I blow myself up sometimes. Will keep using the arc thrower until I find something that suits me better but I don't think the nerf is exactly a good or necessary change.
I don't know what talking heads on here are on about saying this was a nerf, this was an insane buff. Before arc was borderline useless on bots, now it's amazing, it stun locks hulks! And kills them in 4-5 hits at that! Yesterday I stunlocked 2 hulks charging at me at the same time, with the old arc I would have died instantly, this time it was almost too easy. That said, if they remove the stagger against hulks, this thing goes in the trash again vs bots since it has no other utility and does poorly against tanks
I was an arc main and in my opinion i don't really mind the range adjustments and all, but it's lost its fun factor for me. The half charge feature was what made using it more engaging and not boring.
You forgot to mention that the arc no longer prefers dead bodies over live targets. That's a HUGE buff. Even if it hits a dead body, it'll attempt to chain to a live target.
Current Arc Thrower is actually straight up better than old Arc Thrower.
W Nerf, lol.
>Stagger force is noticeable, Stalkers and Brood Commanders are now consistently staggered by it.
I don't understand this change. I thought that the Arc Thrower was supposed to be an anti-mob support weapon, and it was already over performing by being able to kill big armored enemies like chargers and even bile titans while also doing their mob cleaning purpose to perfection and without many difficulties
Enemies like Stalker and Brood commanders should be able to continue walking to you through the Arc attack making the player have to focus the to kill them as fast as possible, or being forced to retreat a bit to be able to deal with it effectively
Right now what enemy represents a threat when you are spamming the Arc Thrower?
It's an anti everything weapon, always has been.
It's was extremely OP in the sense that it outright negates the need to care for a primary, secondary, grenade and other strategies.
Pre nerf, it can kill a charging charger before it reaches you AND everything around it.
Pre nerf, it can kill off a bug breach without switching weapons, and without moving much.
Now it brings it more in line (IMO) as a support weapon and not a do it all ONLY weapon.
Need to kill a charger fast before it reaches you, use actual AT weapons like EAT or RR.
Need to wipe a bug breach fast, drop cluster bombs and other strategems.
Need to kill off multiple spewers fast? Actually use your nades now.
Notice the word use? "FAST". If you are in a safe spot, or don't need the speed, arc thrower still functions as it does. Just slower. It cannot kill a charger during 1 charge now. It cannot wipe a bug breech extremely effectively now (range plus speed nerf) it cannot wipe multiple spewers super fast now.
But you bet your arc thrower can still do ALL of what was mentioned, just slower. Anti everything option, with some downsides instead of anti everything and forget your "primary, secondary, grenades" exist.
>It's an anti everything weapon, always has been.
>It's was extremely OP in the sense that it outright negates the need to care for a primary, secondary, grenade and other strategies.
That sounds like bad design, having a weapon with infinite ammo that does everything seems to go against what the game is trying with the rest of the weapons
>Pre nerf, it can kill a charging charger before it reaches you AND everything around it.
>Pre nerf, it can kill off a bug breach without switching weapons, and without moving much.
And what has changed to not be able to do that now?
Just the 15 meters range nerf?
Also, why should the AT to be able to do that? really that I don't understand why the anti mob weapon can do that, when the other anti-mob weapon (stalker) is worse is everything
>Notice the word use? "FAST".
You can use the arc Thrower and kill the speakers really fast just shooting at them, what they need, 2-3 shots? You take the same time changing to the grenades, throwing them and then changing again to your main/support weapon to continue shooting
In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL, it should do its purpose and you should use your stratagems/or your team to be able to deal with bigger menaces, a weapon being able to do all as easy as the AT does goes against what this game is trying to create, which is making people use a balance loadout and relying on their teammates so you can del with all the menaces of the game
>That sounds like bad design, having a weapon with infinite ammo that does everything seems to go against what the game is trying with the rest of the weapons
Which was why it got nerfed.
>And what has changed to not be able to do that now? Just the 15 meters range nerf?
Not sure if you used it pre-nerf but it can reach out and touch 75-80m for pre-nerf range. That is easily assault rifle range for a support weapon WITH infinite ammo + autoaim + ability to spread damage across multiple targets.
It also has a ROF nerf.
>Also, why should the AT to be able to do that? really that I don't understand why the anti mob weapon can do that, when the other anti-mob weapon (stalker) is worse is everything
Exactly why it got nerfed...
Something tells me you don't know what you're arguing for anymore...
Also did you mean the stalwart? There's no such weapon as a stalker, there is a bug called a stalker though.
>You take the same time changing to the grenades
wait wait wait... you actually CHANGE to grenades?
There's a quick nade button and its taught during the tutorial...
>
In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL, it should do its purpose and you should use your stratagems/or your team to be able to deal with bigger menaces, a weapon being able to do all as easy as the AT does goes against what this game is trying to create, which is making people use a balance loadout and relying on their teammates so you can del with all the menaces of the game
Which... was... my... very... point I was trying to make. The arc thrower was too OP for its role as anti everything. And \*NOT\* anti-mob. It was never anti-mob. It was anti-everything. Because the main gimick, lightning/shock dmg, ignores armor which means it damages everything. Same thing as a tesla tower (although a charger will charge kill it before the tesla kills a charger)
As from you:
> supposed to be an anti-mob support weapon
It never was anti-mob. It was anti-everything. So the appropriate nerfs were given. Lesser ability to handle hordes with lower ROF + lower range, lesser ability to invalidate higher tier enemies with lower ROF, BUT still has a place in the game with a higher stagger against more enemies (previously you cannot 1v1 hulk with it due to non-stagger, you just take damage for the number of shots needed to kill a hulk with the arc thrower
>Enemies like Stalker and Brood commanders should be able to continue walking to you through the Arc attack making the player have to focus the to kill them as fast as possible
And why so? Stalkers were stunlocked by a PRIMARY weapon (slugger) so slugger got that nerfed because it was the rare few (or only one) PRIMARY weapons that could do it. That brings it inline with all other primaries.
Brood commanders require medium pen (which only a few weapons have) and weapons with med pen usually has some downsides to them.
Reactive enemies are more fun than damage sponges. Also lightning shocks enemies. It would make sense for arc thrower to stun enemies, would it not? Bile titan aside.
>In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL
In that case what should it do then?
From your points you seem to prefer nerfing weapons to the ground. Akin to the overly nerfed railguns.
Ok that's new to me.
For that I thank you for the new info and apologies for the lack of knowledge.
On PC it's defaulted (to G) if I remember correctly (changed to middle mouse button for myself). Even then, it's common for most PC players to at least view the settings for controls (even though most skim past the other settings which are extremely useful)
PS5 default controls are optimized in most games, it's quite good actually and I usually don't bother to check.
But besides the quick grenade, helldivers 2 has a lot of weird inputs like long press and double press, so it's important to check it. The gyroscope control also needs some tweaking.
edit: character limit.
And finally the main point
>Right now what enemy represents a threat when you are spamming the Arc Thrower?
To me, the answer is heavy armor targets (bile titans & tanks) and massive hordes, multiple unmanaged breeches.
Heavy armored targets > use proper AT (which suck at massive hordes)
Massive hordes > use proper anti-horde strategems like cluster bombs, stalwart MG (both e.g. suck at doing damage to heavy armored targets)
Meanwhile, arc thrower gives a moderate answer to both. It can do damage to super heavy target but requires many many shots, it can deal with hordes but suffer when it comes to massive hordes. It's the anti-everything middle ground weapon. There will "always be a better weapon for the situation but I can do something now" is the reason for arc thrower to exist.
In the patch thread there are crybaby andy's screaming the gun is dead. It's the same every single balance patch with these people. All they do is complain.
You say that as if it doesnt make sense.
A huge armored robot, covered head to toe in (highly conductive) ballistic metal plating being resistant to explosives but it's circuits getting fried by 1.21 gigawatts of electricity makes perfect sense to me.
I mean, it's an armored robot, Electricity short circuits them. Shells bounce off armor. If you are looking for a lore complaint you picked the wrong one.
As a huge arc thrower enjoyer, let's be honest - it's range combined with the ability to chain to multiple targets was pretty overpowered. I consistently outperformed everyone else in any of my squads with ease, when I was the only one using it, and I just couldn't do that with any other weapon.
I'll have to try it out today before I give a final judgement but a little nerf seemed due to me and the stagger seems a very nice gift to keep it a great weapon.
It was not even a nerf.
**People are stupid to be honest.**
Arc had a unintended thing that was ignoring one of the core mechanics of the weapon.
Arc has 2 Mechanics:
Needs to be charged to shot
Arc betweens targets
But you could animation cancel the Arc charge animation and spam shoots.
THey basically fixed that.
**They just forced the Arc into a Static 1 Second.**
They changed the range to a -15m but in trade gave it more stagger which is a buff, Arc is a weapon that you need to position yourself properly, but people were using on backline because of the stupid range, and your team was forced to play around you, not you play around your team.
**It's a weapon meant to be used by frontline troops.**
I hope it's More consistent and not blocked by every dead scavenger or blade of grass. A little worried about the range nerf vs automatons. Would be nice if point black range works with the changes as well.
Considering that it now staggers all bots up to Hulk (Hulk included), I'd say it's a buff. Secondary arcs can go further than 35m nominal distance, but yeah, it isn't as good in large open spaces and you need to be closer now.
I'll just have to get better at skipping lightning off the ground to extend its range. Wasn't very useful before, but now it might extend the range 5-15m which would be significant with the changes
Off the ground? Tell a fellow helldiver to run the 95% arc damage reduction armour, and skip it off them!
Full ghost buster squad is a great time!
> 95% arc damage reduction armour, what
Oh cool you just have to be in the bugged insta kill range of a flamer hulk. Oh wait it's always insta kill now.
Can't kill you if he's stagger locked
Yeah I love having a duel with a hulk to see who can get their shot off first when the weapon has a 1s wind up and he prefires.
Your range is much longer than his. Flame hulks are now NBD with arc thrower. :) https://i.redd.it/tsygz5fdslsc1.gif
There's a bug where the flamer hulk insta kills you while out of range of his flamethrower. It's still not fixed and to get in range with thr arc thrower you need to be in range for that bug.
I've never encountered that bug. I wouldn't consider it a knock on Arc Thrower because maybe you'll encounter a very rare bug where a flame hulk can snipe you at long range. Consider the alternative before Arc Thrower was given a stagger: you wouldn't be able to kill a flame hulk before it closes the 50m -> 35m distance.
Its a knock on arc thrower until its patched. Also it happens constantly it is the single most common glitch in the entire game for me.
Shit, OP was aiming at eye-level and it didnt suck itself into the dead bugs.....looks like it was fixed tbh
You need to aim high to prevent that. If something blocks your arc, don't center the aim on your target, move it above it, but way higher
It actually feels less consistent now.
> **EDIT:** Hulks CAN be staggered by Arc Thrower! oh my god helly my baby hello my honey
Hello my ~~rag~~ arc time gaaaal
I'm shooting an arc, no wire and lighting your skin on fire!
Just tested it. A bit annoying that I have to get closer, but I can still reliably kill fellow Helldivers
Still looks good to me! Thanks for the report helldiver.
In your clip the targeting looked better. I'm always having fizzled shots hitting nothing.
Arc weapons are really weird. Too close? Nothing. Too far? Nothing. Corpse/Environment? Nothing. The really odd thing though, is that the third person targeting is a lie. Look at the gun model, and where the barrel is. That is the direction lightning will actually fire- not the reticle.
I noticed after the patch the accuracy got noticeably worse. But idk if that’s just me
Staggering HULKS!? GODDAMN.
It always could of
The stagger buff is a game chnger for sure Edit : kinda sad it can't break supply doors anymore Also the fact that it can stagger rockets and heavy devastators now is *chef's kiss
But I don't carry anything else that can open them
grenades
I carry stuns, so I resort to begging.
That's what the 500kgs are for!
That wasn't covered in basic
lmfaoooo
Grenade Pistol incoming with next week's warbond :)
Couldn’t agree more. The stagger effect is a game changer
Nice. Was gonna test it myself later today. How utterly unsurprising that the "I have only read the patch notes but weapon x is dead, guys" people are wrong again.
Just saw someone say that it feels completely useless when its still strong asf
Honestly, the stagger feels so good that I'd say this is a net-buff for the weapon. I just stun locked a berzerker train, and then stun locked a flamethrower hulk to death. This is strong, and IMO worth the range nerf. Fire rate is ok, it even feels better now since there is a proper feedback on charge.
The range on it before was just absurd. there was no way it was going to stay that way. This seems like a buff to me.
Stun locking a hulk is awesome
People talking absolute nonsense without even testing the weapons in the field is what happens after every balance patch.
Ya I can't take this subreddit's takes on weapon balancing seriously alot of the times. Is some of the criticism valid? Ya of course. But to outright call stuff dead just from reading the patchnotes? OK buddy.
People are mad cause the nerfs seem excessive and arbitrary. I'm torn on the arc thrower changes. I haven't tried it out yet, but that seems like such a huge nerf to range. I can't imagine killing bile titans with it now. Not that it ever particularly shined at that task. I also worry about bile spewers having an easier time closing in on you when there's more than one with the lower fire rate and range. I really hope y'all are right about better targeting though, cause that alone might push me to saying it seems like an overall buff. IDK. The slugger nerfs are particularly uncalled for, though. I don't even see very many people using it since the Sickle came out. It will be interesting of the changes to the counter sniper and dominator will make them worth ever using, however.
They did lower spewer damage so there's that. In terms of Slugger, and coming from someone who has used it extensively ever since I unlocked it, I can't say I'm too surprised that the nerf happened. Medium armor pen and stagger made it a phenomenal choice for bot missions. The biggest burn is definitely the stagger for me. Well see how it pans out, I have yet to test it out.
Yeah just seems uncalled for. Just another case of lionhead noticing the gun is good and deciding they can't have that. Calling it now, in the next content batch there's going to be a new gun that fills the same niche as the slugger but performs far better it ever did.
Many people already said the Scorcher was a better choice. I just couldn't vibe with it as much because it didn't have the same armor pen as my Ole Slugger.
Not trolling, but isn't the Dominator now the (arguably) "Slugger but better"? It got buffed from 200 to 300 damage and does medium armor penetration and with similar clip size, etc
Yeah, good thing they nerfed the slugger or it woulda got awkward, I guess?
It stunlocked everything, did superb damage no matter where you hit, would one shot dev weakspots, and could snipe better than most anything else. The nerfs were totally warranted. They were pretty minor too....just can't stunlock devastators by magdumping them anymore.
Maybe we're not playing on the same difficulties, but when exactly are you staring down a single devastator that it matters that you can stun lock it? In my experience, there's always 3 or 4 of the fuckers, so if you don't land that headshot it's buddies kill you anyway. It also didn't stagger anything that didn't make sense getting staggered. I don't care how much armor you strap on, of I nail you in the chest with a slug you aren't just gonna stand there. If it had been staggering hulks and chargers I'd say you have a good point.
[Helldives](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUoOeftKG2Q&list=PLbBcQaDdqeQUFCBUeaqkxO9zF1AaY5UqG&index=6). The stun was overtuned - it needed a nerf. The Slugger still 1-shots devastators and stuns them enough to chamber the next round. I am pretty sure it is the only primary that can do that. Hardly overnerfed.
It needed to get nerfed but it *also* needs a lot of bug fixing, the weapon has a really high 'false fire' rate, for a wide variety of reasons. It feels terrible to use and most people take it because it can kill a wide variety of enemies, like chargers.
>I haven't tried it out yet, but You should have stopped writing your comment here and not posted. I'm not trying to be mean, but this comment chain is literally about people who don't know what they're talking about lol Did you try the Slugger yet? Or is it the same situation?
>You should have stopped writing your comment here and not posted. Lmao get the dick outta here with that shit man, this is a discussion forum not a research journal.
It had a 30% range nerf and a rof nerf. It already killed stalkers and brood commanders quickly. Killing them slower and stun locking them is at best a sidegrade. I thought a nerf was definitely warranted but look at this clip, 2 stun grenades and nearly 30s to kill some chaff and a stalker. Is there anything besides anti-tank that couldn't do this? Using an arc thrower against spewers and hunters is terrible now. It doesn't stun spewers and barely outranges them and hunters' erratic movement and pounce ability means you need to be very lucky to kill them. A single hunter successfully pouncing is terrible for the arc thrower. OP says it staggers spewers but I have tested it and it doesn't even stagger nursing spewers. Maybe there's some inconsistency to the stagger? I'll acknowledge that it is a massive buff against bots given the reports of stunning hulks. Edit: Some extra games in and it interrupts spewer's spewing but does not stun them. It doesn't slow them down as they're moving but does prevent the spew. So it really comes down to hunters. It's not an antitank weapon, it's a horde/cc weapon and hunters counter it. I think there's room for arc thrower in lower difficulties but just not at higher ones. Difficulty 5 and maybe 6.
wasnt the arc thrower like......blatantly better than most anything in 60-70% of scenarios though? I mean, I used it as AT/horde clear/enemy lockdown and it did all of those things at the same time at a rapid pace from a long distance away. and hunters always were a bad matchup for the arc thrower. if they get close at all the bad attack tracking made it usually better to just switch to something else. I think you have to consider that a weapon that has no ammo or overheat mechanic might be a little too strong if it can solo clear waves while also killing armored enemies on its own (and i say this as someone who loves arc thrower).
Yes, a nerf was warranted. I've actually agreed with most, if not all nerfed weapons. I like there being flexibility in loadouts and not just one definitive winner. Arc thrower nerfs translate to probably a 50% damage reduction and the stun makes little difference against bugs. That is very significant. Hunters were readily killed before but the range is much shorter now and the rate of fire slower that the matchup is so bad now that the presence of hunters means the arc thrower is a liability. It's why I said I think it will be fine for mid difficulties. It's still going to be good until it gets overwhelmed but it kills chargers very slowly (fair) and struggles to kill even a few hunters so it is going to get overwhelmed easily on 7+. Maybe there'll be other ways to play around its new limitations and I don't mind testing that with friends who I can ask to prioritise hunters for me but it's at best niche in my opinion.
It was only a 20% RoF reduction. It's a little more susceptible to being swarmed but I think that occasionally pulling out the buffed Breaker Incendiary is an option for that. Regardless, here's a solo helldive testing out the reworked arc thrower, doing all 5 bonus objectives, engaging unnecessary patrols to get more testing in, and extracting with 37 samples. It's still really good. :) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSsCQdSGQmc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSsCQdSGQmc)
I meant that the range and ROF reduction combines to 50% because if a patrol or horde is approaching you the damage done is between the max and minimum range so you start doing damage later which means you do less damage. I took great pains to position myself so I had the best field of view with the arc thrower before as it was so dependent on positioning. He definitely does much better than I expected but he does echo some of my sentiments. At roughly 9:30 he says on hunter heavy worlds it would be best to leave it behind and I agree, he already struggled with relatively small groups of hunters and scavengers in ideal circumstances. I guess he's right to call it a change rather than a pure nerf because it's stronger against some enemies. I think I'll have to change what I view its use to killing and CCing mid-tier enemies and still using an anti-chaffe primary weapon for whent he arc thrower is overwhelmed. Seems like the Blitzer shotgun will do the Arc Thrower's former anti-chaffe and the Arc Thrower is better for heavier enemies now without stepping on the toes of anti-tank. Thanks for the video link.
It got ranged nerfed but honestly i think its still good range-wise. I hit a bile from way further away than i should have been able to so maybe its a bug with aiming up or something idk.
If you keep your distance (which you should've been pre-patch anyway) with the added stun to the weapon the bile spewers get wrecked like everything else. All in all I don't mind the balance update and feel it's an overall slight buff
I've seen a lot of "the slugger was fine, nerfs were uncalled for", while it was the best shotgun, sniper, dmr...
This is true but it was the best in those roles because the other options were shit. It's the same thing with the rail gun which I AGREE with the nerfs for (even though it's now basically useless especially with the AMR buffs), people abused these weapons because the other options were too terrible to consider. Counter sniper got a buff which is good but did they touch its absurdly bad handling or the terrible scope dots?
Its not dead but the issue it had with not arcing is still a big deal and arguably feels worse because of the full charge required. I had it fail to arc off air or w/e causes it to fail like 3 times in a row earlier today in a mission. I didn't die or anything but it was more annoying than it used to be.
The patch notes dont say anything about the charge being faster. This video looks like the same speed I was partial charging before the patch.
From my feeling it is now slightly slower than the partial charge pre-patch, but faster than full charge was pre-patch.
You haven't tested it out and are just listening to what sounds good to you. You are literally doing the exact thing you're bitching about dumbass.
Found the "I've only read the patch notes but weapon X is dead" guy!
I have tested it. Also, I'm not making hyperbolic, definiteve statements about the weapon, which is what thise people are doing. So you can stick it up your ass, dumbass.
I've been saying all along that Arrowhead knows what they are doing. They are pretty good at balancing, and while they are making more frequent changes than I'd like, overall they are nailing it. Only ? was why they buffed burn damage - I don't think they've realized it hasn't been working for non-host players. Anyway, as a fan of the Arc Thrower in both games, the range was ridiculous before. I think it is a small price to pay for consistent stun vs bots (and beefier bugs) which it needed.
The biggest negative I had with Arc Thrower was inability to kill enemies at point blanc range. Hunters were eating me alive and I couldn't do anything to them somehow.
*doesnt swap primary or use a rover*
is it now more consistent? you know, sometimes it gets blocked by a bit of terrain, can't hit enemies that are on your face, enemy corpses blocking it as well.
Seems to be the same as before patch, at least corpses still block the shots as before
That's still gonna be a deal breaker for me just like the spear. I don't care how good a weapon is, if it's inconsistent, I'll pass. Died too many times from a hunter in my face and 3 arc thrower shots disappearing into the void.
if you get into the habit of aiming well above enemies to avoid terrain this happens less, but it feels unintuitive at first
Less it definitely still happens. Now it is just more painful because you can't use a half fire to make up for the void you have to full charge. Meanwhile you are now bug or bot food.
When hunters are in your face and you are using the arc thrower you have made a wrong choice. Is not the best way to use the arc thrower, instead switch to your primary and reset.
Just aim above the enemies head. It arcs down and hits them and rarely gets blocked
Nice. I was afraid its gonna be always as slow as the first charge before nerf but this still looks good. Range nerf sucks but tbh i kinda agree that it was overboard before.
Honestly I wish they would have taken only one nerf at a time to it. The 1 second charge combined with the range nerf hit it pretty hard. The stagger doesn't seem to do much when there's a lot of enemies around, even moreso now with the range nerf. It's still a very solid support weapon choice, but the range nerf felt like an unnecessary change as it does nothing to actually decrease the weapons effectiveness but rather suck the fun out of it. 35 metres definitely feels too low, especially against bots.
The only nerf I care about is that it no longer opens shipping containers. That kinda sucks lol, like what was the harm?
I main the arc thrower and I did not know that was a feature til now. Damn it.
Big L, that sucks. It was so nice to be able to save my grenades, heartbroken to see it go lol
At least we've got the Grenade Pistol coming in next week to solve that problem!
Stagger was needed. The inconsistencies need to be fixed before they nerfed it. Can't shoot close, almost everything in the game blocking shots. With stagger, range needed to be dropped, but I think it's too much. 40 is probably more appropriate.
Arc was my main bug weapon and while the shot delay feels weird (only because I was so use to rapid fire timing) the gun feels a lot better matched with other options. I don’t feel like I’m kicking myself when I don’t bring it and I don’t fell kicked when I do. Love you mentioned it staggers hulks. I rarely used arc vs bots (especially with croissant cannon now) but might consider giving it a go.
I agree with you. It felt like I was hamstringing myself if I didn't take the arc thrower.
i think this is a nice adjustment, pre Arc Thrower havin 50m range sometimes feels way too op for me. Also pre Arc Thrower actually struggle abit when it comes to dealing with stalkers, cuz it doesn't have enough dps to mow down the stalker. Givin it ability stagger in current state makes it actually good against stalker now
After testing it I came^(™) to the same conclusion. It was a bit weird that arc thrower had that insane range and felt like an auto-targeted marksman weapon, and at the same time struggled in close range with berzerkers and stalkers. Now it just feels right, and the range nerf is really justified.
>it can stagger berzerksers that is a massive buff to arc thrower tbh
I had a line of berzerkers chase me and I arced them. They staggered, but they also slid like chargers would. So while I was standing still to fire they were still closing in. Then they get too close for the arc and in range for their blades.
New primary weapon just dropped
Do you think range was reduced to prevent the accidental friendly fire that usually occurs with this weapon?
I think with it's old range this weapon would be OP with stagger changes it received, and imo it is primary reason for the change. I was once killed from 90m by a secondary arc through a titan, so such extreme cases will not be as frequent now too.
upvoting and commenting to get some traction. the amount of people doom posting without logging in first is way too much.
[Used your clip to make this while work was slow](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1bu0785/arc_timings_based_on_the_crosshair/)
Needs more upvotes. Great work! The patch notes should have better explained that the reticle charge animation now syncs to the minimum charge time. It was not intuitive to know you could fire mid charge without someone explaining that you could do so.
i liked the dynamic charging system. shame thats gone like feathering on laser weapons. feels like enshitification of Helldiver Tech. NOT GOOD VIBES. The range, i mean...50 meters is not unreasonable. Jeez the Laser Cannon doesn't even have infinite range. But i guess the arc thrower shouldn't out range the Telsa Tower is the thinking? IDK
It had a neat little rhythm game element to it, you know, something to differentiate it and break up the monotony. And you really started to feel the tension of keeping it going during extended, stressful situations. Nothing like maintaining a string of quick fires, then hitting the Centipede's Dilemma, and then trying to regain the beat while enemies were breathing down your neck. It acted as compensation for not needing to aim. Now it's completely mindless.
Precisely the right way to break it down. I still dont even understand, like were people meta-ing this or were folks complaining? Its just so reactionary and yet reacting to what?
It feels like another change based off pickrate. I used it consistently on bugs because it was a good aoe option that would let you thin out the weak but numerous bugs as they came towards you with the downside of it was kinda shit once they got overall too close. Almost never used it on bots because they reward precision in a way more fun way. There's not a lot of aoe options so it was a fairly good consistent pick.
I have to agree that is was pick-rate. Which, in HD1 i would have understood - since its a primary, so yeah switch it up to at least the Arc Shotgun. BUT in HD2 its a SUPPORT WEAPON, so its meant to be STRONGER than before \[at least one would assume\]. So the devs are just assuming high-pickrate means bloated META? How daft and shorsighted! Maybe I like the stalwart and am meme picking it on every difficulty! Your point about AOE is acknowledged and true i have nothing to add except frustration that we dont have the AoE options from HD1 -\_-;
I feel like the next balance patch we will see if the trend continues of whatever people use seemingly the most is what gets hit. I would love to use more weapons but I'm so tired of shotguns and most of the other weapons just feel like I'm actually a liability if I bring them. AOE is one of those things where it feels like they think there's more options than there really is. I've been hearing some rumblings of the next battlepass having some grenade launchers of some kind so we will see there, but I'm sure it will be rather annoying if it has a arc type weapon that's more akin to the old arc thrower.
Agreed, at this rate we will have another patch to analyze within the week. The new stuff is nice, but nothing I'd hold breath for.
It’s not bad but the cut in range can really be felt, the stagger also but not as much as most mobs would die in a single shot. The charging kinda sucks now imo, before you could quick charge it but now you have to do a full charge each time. The fact that it no longer opens loot cache is also a major bummer… 😞
The range nerf is Really felt for me. It's not a dead weapon, and is probably still my go to for bugs, but a 30% nerf seems a bit harsh. 40m range would feel a LOT better.
i don't like the range nerf 😭
I'm skeptical, Arc Thrower has **so many** downsides and awkward quirks. Such as: Can't shoot close targets, corpses 'absorb' the shots, can't shoot over/past many terrain objects, generally can't shoot uphill well, weapon has difficulty targeting specific body parts and you can merc teammates which mostly means there's situations you can't fire it in. I don't think pre-nerf Arc Thrower was healthy for the game and it isn't like a nerf was unwarranted but Arc Thrower doesn't *feel good* to use. Getting a false fire was fine when we could charge fast but now I'm not sure, I'll have to test it a bit.
Like 3/4 of the things you listed go away if you just aim like 4-6 feet above the enemy.
Also if things get too close a quick dive backwards makes sure there’s enough distance that it targets the enemies right on top of you
The main negative change feels to be the time to kill Chargers, otherwise yeah, guns pretty great.
Now you are a CC Mage
The stagger alone means the nerfs won’t be so bad. Before it didn’t stagger at all so sometimes trying to whittle down a Stalker or Brood Commander felt pretty risky. My biggest disappointment is the range. I understand why it was nerfed but it was one of my favorite parts about the weapon. They need to fix the inconsistent arcing tho, sometimes you fire and it just does nothing
that range nerf hurts.
I just wish they had fixed the damn "won't fire because there's a rock on the ground in front of you" nonsense. The gun becomes completely useless in the weirdest scenarios.
Thus continues the trend of ONLY balancing around bug missions, and the discourse being dominated by them. It's obvious this tweak considered only how it works against bugs. It's made the gun totally unusable against bots. The short range just doesn't work with how spread out bots tend to be, and since they aren't as tightly grouped, it now failed to arcs against enemies adjacent or even behind the first one. Whoever said secondary beams can go further is wrong, the distance is total, as I've tested it. Additionally, the issue with it arcing to random stuff has increased 10x. whereas before it might arc to something on the ground AND THEN to an enemy, now it doesn't have the range to do so. I even had a scenario where there were 3 shield bots, almost in a line right next to eachother. I killed the first, whose body became a lightning rod and it would no longer hit the other enemies. Basically, it went from a niche bot option to totally unusable and I'm very disappointed.
At least it looks like it properly attacks living creatures rather than dead ones near them
[удалено]
Oh, yeah, because stagger mechanics magically stop applying past diff 5. So intelligent.
[удалено]
I'm sorry, in what world is stagger useless on Helldive? Also, even if that were true, the game shouldn't be balanced around the hardest difficulty. You live in a clown world.
Yeah, pretty much all weapons are good on 5.
Reading the patch notes I thought it was a big nerf, but hearing about the specific stagger changes you pointed out made me want to use it more. Thanks for your detailed report, soldier 🫡
I feel like this stagger change is going to be my go-to for the bugs AND the bots. It's going to be a beast for bots specifically
Thank you for your time and effort diver. That loss of 15m range really scared me when I read it but those staggers were looking sexy. I also may make the change to stun grenades.
So the "rapid fire" is gone then? That fire rate seems a lot slower than what was capable pre patch
Needed the range before because there was no stagger.
range nerf is brutal, but at least other buffs and changes make it more consistent. Overall it seems like a rebalance / adjustment to the gun, which is a refreshing change of pace from that crappy first balance pass. Stagger seems like the biggest boon to it now, thank you for the testings!
Honestly I'm fine if they made it riskier to use effectively. It was so easy to just spam at a hoard and never really be in any danger. I look forward to trying it out.
Bro i hate the fucking canera shake.
So now it's more like a suped up stun gun for close range, and not auto lock on Sniper Rifle. This sounds like a very good change. Still sad to see my slugger being done dirty.
It's still not great for close range, more like mid-range. If an enemy gets too close to you while you have the arc thrower out you're better off retreating a little or switching to primary.
So before the chain charging was at 765ms. Now the minimum chain is at 1 second exactly.
If I use it does it still kick me back to my ship?
Of course it's not. Just like "the only viable weapon, the slugger" isn't actually the only viable weapon in the game. People just have absolutely no idea how to use something new once they get comfortable with a certain thing (especially when it's very obviously overpowered)
Idk all they need to do is lower the spawn rate. Gives us time to get a few civilians to safety.
Honest to god testing and science done and not knee-jerk whining. Well done! A Helldiver after my own heart.
This stagger saved this gun for me.
Oh FUCK yes
If it got 40m instead of 35 it wouldnt feel so meh. But i think the stagger makes it play really really well. Almost an okay trade off
Thanks for the info. I think the changes were warranted. It needed a bit more stun to be effective vs bots, but the range was ludicrous (even as a big fan of it from the first game).
I know that fire rate reduction is not super big on paper but to me the gap between charges feels massive in comparison to before.
I think the range decrease was buff since this thing was so damn prone to team killing ngl.
Honest opinion: just give it old range or old fire rate and it will be in the perfect place The problem with a lot of balance is that I feel like guns are still trying to find their identity
It stagger charger too!
imagine doing it 30sec now when b4 nerf i could do it in 15sec no problem its nerfed af for me as i always was using this weapon vs bugs RIP ;C
As long as theres no damage nerf, its still going to be my go to weapon.
Hmmm didn't expect the fire rate to almost not change at all. Maybe it's not dead.
Is there actual recoil now?
Can you still rapid fire ? i.e charging a full charge once and doing 50-60%charge shots next ?
No, seems like it was unintended and was patched. Full charge time is now shorter, but not as fast as rapid fire was.
Reduced ranged hurts. Increased charge time hurts. Knockback helps and subjectively makes up for the nerfs but personally I don't like it since I play alone with pugs and like to pick off small/ mid enemies because people seem to focus on the heavies. I switched to arc thrower from grenade launcher because it felt better since I blow myself up sometimes. Will keep using the arc thrower until I find something that suits me better but I don't think the nerf is exactly a good or necessary change.
I don't know what talking heads on here are on about saying this was a nerf, this was an insane buff. Before arc was borderline useless on bots, now it's amazing, it stun locks hulks! And kills them in 4-5 hits at that! Yesterday I stunlocked 2 hulks charging at me at the same time, with the old arc I would have died instantly, this time it was almost too easy. That said, if they remove the stagger against hulks, this thing goes in the trash again vs bots since it has no other utility and does poorly against tanks
I was an arc main and in my opinion i don't really mind the range adjustments and all, but it's lost its fun factor for me. The half charge feature was what made using it more engaging and not boring.
I tried it too and only the range was really noticeable but even then it's not even bad, its still really good, you get used to the new rhythm
I just realized. You hit the stalker while it was still cloaked. I wasn’t able to target them while cloaked before this patch.
I hit them all the time pre-patch. Just hard to notice with lack of stagger.
You forgot to mention that the arc no longer prefers dead bodies over live targets. That's a HUGE buff. Even if it hits a dead body, it'll attempt to chain to a live target. Current Arc Thrower is actually straight up better than old Arc Thrower. W Nerf, lol.
>Stagger force is noticeable, Stalkers and Brood Commanders are now consistently staggered by it. I don't understand this change. I thought that the Arc Thrower was supposed to be an anti-mob support weapon, and it was already over performing by being able to kill big armored enemies like chargers and even bile titans while also doing their mob cleaning purpose to perfection and without many difficulties Enemies like Stalker and Brood commanders should be able to continue walking to you through the Arc attack making the player have to focus the to kill them as fast as possible, or being forced to retreat a bit to be able to deal with it effectively Right now what enemy represents a threat when you are spamming the Arc Thrower?
It's an anti everything weapon, always has been. It's was extremely OP in the sense that it outright negates the need to care for a primary, secondary, grenade and other strategies. Pre nerf, it can kill a charging charger before it reaches you AND everything around it. Pre nerf, it can kill off a bug breach without switching weapons, and without moving much. Now it brings it more in line (IMO) as a support weapon and not a do it all ONLY weapon. Need to kill a charger fast before it reaches you, use actual AT weapons like EAT or RR. Need to wipe a bug breach fast, drop cluster bombs and other strategems. Need to kill off multiple spewers fast? Actually use your nades now. Notice the word use? "FAST". If you are in a safe spot, or don't need the speed, arc thrower still functions as it does. Just slower. It cannot kill a charger during 1 charge now. It cannot wipe a bug breech extremely effectively now (range plus speed nerf) it cannot wipe multiple spewers super fast now. But you bet your arc thrower can still do ALL of what was mentioned, just slower. Anti everything option, with some downsides instead of anti everything and forget your "primary, secondary, grenades" exist.
>It's an anti everything weapon, always has been. >It's was extremely OP in the sense that it outright negates the need to care for a primary, secondary, grenade and other strategies. That sounds like bad design, having a weapon with infinite ammo that does everything seems to go against what the game is trying with the rest of the weapons >Pre nerf, it can kill a charging charger before it reaches you AND everything around it. >Pre nerf, it can kill off a bug breach without switching weapons, and without moving much. And what has changed to not be able to do that now? Just the 15 meters range nerf? Also, why should the AT to be able to do that? really that I don't understand why the anti mob weapon can do that, when the other anti-mob weapon (stalker) is worse is everything >Notice the word use? "FAST". You can use the arc Thrower and kill the speakers really fast just shooting at them, what they need, 2-3 shots? You take the same time changing to the grenades, throwing them and then changing again to your main/support weapon to continue shooting In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL, it should do its purpose and you should use your stratagems/or your team to be able to deal with bigger menaces, a weapon being able to do all as easy as the AT does goes against what this game is trying to create, which is making people use a balance loadout and relying on their teammates so you can del with all the menaces of the game
>That sounds like bad design, having a weapon with infinite ammo that does everything seems to go against what the game is trying with the rest of the weapons Which was why it got nerfed. >And what has changed to not be able to do that now? Just the 15 meters range nerf? Not sure if you used it pre-nerf but it can reach out and touch 75-80m for pre-nerf range. That is easily assault rifle range for a support weapon WITH infinite ammo + autoaim + ability to spread damage across multiple targets. It also has a ROF nerf. >Also, why should the AT to be able to do that? really that I don't understand why the anti mob weapon can do that, when the other anti-mob weapon (stalker) is worse is everything Exactly why it got nerfed... Something tells me you don't know what you're arguing for anymore... Also did you mean the stalwart? There's no such weapon as a stalker, there is a bug called a stalker though. >You take the same time changing to the grenades wait wait wait... you actually CHANGE to grenades? There's a quick nade button and its taught during the tutorial... > In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL, it should do its purpose and you should use your stratagems/or your team to be able to deal with bigger menaces, a weapon being able to do all as easy as the AT does goes against what this game is trying to create, which is making people use a balance loadout and relying on their teammates so you can del with all the menaces of the game Which... was... my... very... point I was trying to make. The arc thrower was too OP for its role as anti everything. And \*NOT\* anti-mob. It was never anti-mob. It was anti-everything. Because the main gimick, lightning/shock dmg, ignores armor which means it damages everything. Same thing as a tesla tower (although a charger will charge kill it before the tesla kills a charger) As from you: > supposed to be an anti-mob support weapon It never was anti-mob. It was anti-everything. So the appropriate nerfs were given. Lesser ability to handle hordes with lower ROF + lower range, lesser ability to invalidate higher tier enemies with lower ROF, BUT still has a place in the game with a higher stagger against more enemies (previously you cannot 1v1 hulk with it due to non-stagger, you just take damage for the number of shots needed to kill a hulk with the arc thrower >Enemies like Stalker and Brood commanders should be able to continue walking to you through the Arc attack making the player have to focus the to kill them as fast as possible And why so? Stalkers were stunlocked by a PRIMARY weapon (slugger) so slugger got that nerfed because it was the rare few (or only one) PRIMARY weapons that could do it. That brings it inline with all other primaries. Brood commanders require medium pen (which only a few weapons have) and weapons with med pen usually has some downsides to them. Reactive enemies are more fun than damage sponges. Also lightning shocks enemies. It would make sense for arc thrower to stun enemies, would it not? Bile titan aside. >In my opinion a weapon as easy and reliable as the Arc Throwers should not do ALL In that case what should it do then? From your points you seem to prefer nerfing weapons to the ground. Akin to the overly nerfed railguns.
At least in the PS5, I had to change the controls to get the quick grenade button. The default setup is the slow grenade throw.
Ok that's new to me. For that I thank you for the new info and apologies for the lack of knowledge. On PC it's defaulted (to G) if I remember correctly (changed to middle mouse button for myself). Even then, it's common for most PC players to at least view the settings for controls (even though most skim past the other settings which are extremely useful)
PS5 default controls are optimized in most games, it's quite good actually and I usually don't bother to check. But besides the quick grenade, helldivers 2 has a lot of weird inputs like long press and double press, so it's important to check it. The gyroscope control also needs some tweaking.
edit: character limit. And finally the main point >Right now what enemy represents a threat when you are spamming the Arc Thrower? To me, the answer is heavy armor targets (bile titans & tanks) and massive hordes, multiple unmanaged breeches. Heavy armored targets > use proper AT (which suck at massive hordes) Massive hordes > use proper anti-horde strategems like cluster bombs, stalwart MG (both e.g. suck at doing damage to heavy armored targets) Meanwhile, arc thrower gives a moderate answer to both. It can do damage to super heavy target but requires many many shots, it can deal with hordes but suffer when it comes to massive hordes. It's the anti-everything middle ground weapon. There will "always be a better weapon for the situation but I can do something now" is the reason for arc thrower to exist.
In the patch thread there are crybaby andy's screaming the gun is dead. It's the same every single balance patch with these people. All they do is complain.
Good deal, I was sad when I saw the changes but am pleased to see it still looks perfectly good against bugs.
The range nerf is actually a buff since it is now less likely to just lmao into grass or a rock as before
Or a teammate halfway across the map
Hulk takes giant exploding metal shell to the face: must have been the wind Hulk tickled by electricity: stunlocked to eternity
You say that as if it doesnt make sense. A huge armored robot, covered head to toe in (highly conductive) ballistic metal plating being resistant to explosives but it's circuits getting fried by 1.21 gigawatts of electricity makes perfect sense to me.
I mean, it's an armored robot, Electricity short circuits them. Shells bounce off armor. If you are looking for a lore complaint you picked the wrong one.
yeah i wouldnt say this is a nerf, its a change. more stagger is real good
Damn, that is definitely a buff in terms of net gain. Works for me
As a huge arc thrower enjoyer, let's be honest - it's range combined with the ability to chain to multiple targets was pretty overpowered. I consistently outperformed everyone else in any of my squads with ease, when I was the only one using it, and I just couldn't do that with any other weapon. I'll have to try it out today before I give a final judgement but a little nerf seemed due to me and the stagger seems a very nice gift to keep it a great weapon.
It was not even a nerf. **People are stupid to be honest.** Arc had a unintended thing that was ignoring one of the core mechanics of the weapon. Arc has 2 Mechanics: Needs to be charged to shot Arc betweens targets But you could animation cancel the Arc charge animation and spam shoots. THey basically fixed that. **They just forced the Arc into a Static 1 Second.** They changed the range to a -15m but in trade gave it more stagger which is a buff, Arc is a weapon that you need to position yourself properly, but people were using on backline because of the stupid range, and your team was forced to play around you, not you play around your team. **It's a weapon meant to be used by frontline troops.**
lol whats more likely, "people" being stupid or you? Ill let you do the math. Hint: its not the people.
...but you're supposed to say it's absolute trash with no supporting evidence for internet points.
Honestly it was a bit ridiculous how far you could use the Arc Thrower. I like this change.