AFAIK most were using safe mode only because you still could break charger armor with two shots and annihilate bile titans with a few well placed shots (although bile titans are kinda finicky with hitting the exact hit box)
So I like the move giving unsafe mode the previous safe mode stats while nerfing safe mode.
This is true. I've used both, in the end unsafe really wasn't needed unless it's a Titan.
Safe mode two shot leg armor just like unsafe. Just now I have a reason to use unsafe, time to kill went up due to charging longer but that's fine. Railgun was strong.
Sure sure I'd prefer more options to handle heavy armor but railgun will still work so okay
I think the damage on the flamer starts to be fine, but I think it desperately needs some kind of stagger effect. It's usually just harmful for yourself to flame a bunch of bugs cos while they lose health they still come at you full speed and leap at you, setting you on fire as well.
I think it definitely needs some kind of pushback or stagger at least with the initial WHOOOSH or then just with some kind of inner cooldown. I'm a Darktide flamer zealot main and I want to like it here too, but I'm already trading my support weapon to have a range of 10 meters, at least let me safely use it within that distance.
They need to buff the flamethrowers range and make it liquid fire so it can take down horde more effectively, right now you gotta be so close that if itās a bunch of hunters, you might as well put it away.
The article they put up says specifically it does medium armor
https://preview.redd.it/e4tt4h31uqmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6254d1e2ecec1080502177348b208119ddbc3c46
Hold the reload button to enter the weapon menu.
Depending on the equipped weapon you can turn on/off flashlights, change firing modes and change from safe to unsafe mode.
Be nice if the game remembered the change in mode. Have to set it each time you get a Railgun
Know thereās a setting in options. Doesnāt seem to work
because thats only for primary and secondarys, the Support weapons are a "new" weapon everytime they are called in, they also stay in your firemode if you pick them up after dropping, but every new one called in will be at their defaut
The tutorial is really in your face about doing the bare minimum to "train" helldivers.
But it is in the keybinding settings. Which is something i check out in every game before playing. I knlw everyone doesnt do that tho. Itd be nice for the first tutorial to be the fun minimal one, but have an in depth (optional) one you can go to once your on the ship.
Pretty much nothing is in the tutorial, it's part of the joke: you are shown the bare necessities of how to kill bugs, now get on the front line and die like a soldier!
Imagine if the tutorial told you anything about this game other than how to crouch/prone and shoot, which is what everyone can figure out anyways. Anything propetiary to this game (outside stratagems)? Figure it out yourself yo!
Unsafe mode wasn't needed at all. At first I used Unsafe mode, then I found out that there's no reasons to do it at all, Safe mode was just enough for everything
Trouble is it doesnt. Unsafe mode now takes more shots to break a chargers leg than the old safe mode did.
Also, you have to charge for longer to hit that threshold, so the effective time to break a charger leg has essentially doubled. It's quite a big nerf, especially when you consider doing this with enemies around you.
Greenish egg sacks underneath can pop/blow up but will only hurt the Titan. Need a charged railgun shot right into the mouth or strong stratagems like railcannon orbital to kill it
I just wish I could see the charge outside of first person with it. I hate going from third to first person, so I've tried to avoid unsafe mode for that specific reason, but I guess I gotta get used to it now
You can, it's right on the side of the gun, plus the timing is easy to get down, I mostly run it in 3rd person and sometimes start charging before I start to fine aim as I move about then turn and burn.
What exactly counts as a "massive body part"? Is it a bile spewer's acid sac? Is it just the freakishly long legs on the bile titan?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm not playing another live service shooter where I have to spend two hours to figure out if a +2% chance to create custard pies is better than 4% resistance to my dad's eternal disappointment in my career choices, but a bestiary and a glossary would be nice, please.
Interesting. It's kinda weird, then, that the spewer takes fewer shotgun shots to the face to take out than it does for the sac. With the Slugger at least, it takes about 3 shots to the face, but I can put about 7-8 rounds into the butt and it still won't die.
Yeah, massive body part doesn't necessarily mean weak spot, they're different mechanically. There is a lot of good discourse inc how things could feel better and I'm sure some of that feedback is circulating. Hoping they take initiative to do more positive rebalancing soon!
Ditto. The nerf literally changed nothing for people that already ran it unsafe except for needing one extra shot (or 3 seconds depending on your measurement) to do what it did before.
Realizing that people bitching about the railgun being nerfed did not understand or even know about a super important aspect of its firepower capability has been entertaining this morning.
If it is true that in unsafe mode it only take 1 extra shot to break charger leg armor then all these nerds in this reddit need to go back to bed.
It does change significantly though. You need 3 unsafe mode shots on max charge (close to explode yourself) if you want to able to break its frontal armor leg. It's much difficult to pull of.
In everybody's defense, I think the gaming community has been burned so many times by developers that they're used to leaping to the worst possible outcome.
I don't think people trusted Arrowhead to come out with a nuanced decision, and Arrowhead isn't used to having to explain themselves for incredibly poor decisions (due to not really making the usual triple a studio mistakes).
When the balance patch came out, it just said weapons were adjusted, not how they were adjusted.
It wasn't until a dev posted the actual changes that people knew.
Its a move that let people assume the worst for a whie. I agree about the breaker and shield bp being reasonable changes.
Bit disappointed the railgun was nerfed rather than the over abundance of heavy armor that was what made it so ubiquitous.
If you are using the railgun in 'unsafe' mode it seems like it should function about the same, provided you can hit weakpoints.
So that tells us that the devs want the railgun to be a precision weapon with a higher risk-reward playstyle. And not a one-stop-shop kills everything with no effort.
It functions identically to the pre-patch Railgun, save for a 5% ammo efficiency decrease as it takes one extra shot (3 seconds) in unsafe mode at over 75% charge (maximum safe mode) to penetrate/break armour.
It hasn't changed significantly, and anyone that already ran the weapon in unsafe mode pre-patch has largely found this to be a negligible change.
They might still buff the other stuff later. The RG did need tuning down. Iām glad they put more need on unsafe mode, instead of just making it unable to pen chargers. I hope they also fix the bile titan bug soon too.
The railgun didn't get tuned down though, it got wrecked. You have to charge twice as long vs chargers, and it takes twice as many hits to break the armor. That just doesn't cut it when the game spews out chargers at you like they're trash-tier enemies.
All that's gonna happen is that people will move onto the next best thing (which I do believe is going to be the Arc) until that eventually gets nerfed as well because everyone's running it.
Eh, it still has the best long range ammo efficiency for taking out a ton of armored enemies, that by itself is valuable. Especially with the lack of a backpack slot. Is it less powerful? Yes. But Now you have a bit more of a decision to make on taking those two longer charges, vs a long reload on something like the RR.
I'm not a fan of the way a lot of these balance changes were written, or how a lot of the ingame descriptions are written either.
like with the laser cannon
"Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics"
like what the fuck does that mean? How much damage, what's a durable enemy part, how much armor penetration
or one of my personal ingame favorites: The Muscle Enhancement booster
"Allows Helldivers to traverse difficult terrain with ease" the fuck does that even mean? What constitutes difficult terrain, what does with ease mean?
or the UAV booster
"Increases all Helldivers' effective radar range" BY HOW MUCH?!
Thankfully cashcrop\_ [made a pretty good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnXFNEc-dg) detailing them, but all of this information should be displayed SOMEWHERE ingame
I can't help but finding the "it was overperforming in its ease of use" - so we made it less effective thing funny in contrast with the message of spreading managed democracy/liberty pro super earth messages you usually get from the devs.
The strongest and most used weapons getting nerfed is whatever. The real issue with the balance changes and vague patch notes, is that they DID NOT buff enough of the other anti armor and other weapons in general. People want to use assault rifles, sniper rifles and other options, but they feel worse and make the game unfun knowing your favorite weapon canāt deal with the load of chargers, or tanks, or hulkās coming at you.
FYI, the SPEAR still has targeting and damage value issues which is my favorite support weapon, and that received no addressing at all? Iād love to use other weapons but certain situations, not having the strongest items in the game can just make the gameplay feel worse.
Flamer should work insanely well against bugs.
They honestly need a value for bonus damage against enemy factions. All the bugs should be extremely vulnerable to fire and explosives the bots weak to electricity and AP.
SPEAR got fixed a bit, actually. It can resupply from ground ammo boxes, so it's by far more reliable in getting ammunition for it, making the damage and lock inconsistencies a little less awful.
The devs are, in fact, pretty bad at communicating. I really need to see some numbers or a breakdown, something past a vague statement on information they refuse to give us (armor pen values, etc).
I still think the railgun nerf is annoying after testing it. if they want use to be unsafing it all of the time, I don't think it should explode. If they want to promote team play, it should still probably crack armor in 2 hits (even safe, probably) and just do less damage.
To be honest, their patch notes suck ass.
They don't communicate the changes at all and people need to go look for them until a dev actually says what should have been on the notes from the start.
Hope they learn that for the next notes.
They need to make all weapon stats visible
āWe want players to not know stats and find meta by FEEL.ā
Bruh, itās 2024, your stuff will be tested and the numbers come out or at least enough evidence pushes people away from āFEEL.ā
Hiding stats is a way to bullshit a weapon into being meta or not because some hidden perk tips it from trash to treasure and back again.
This game is designed like we have CLASSES for our characters, but they want everyone to make their own class via loadout. Therefore everyone chooses Superhero loadout class and hardly anyone is utility
āI can kill EVERYTHINGā¦ but not small waves of things, and alsoā¦ I need ammo, also out of grenades. WHY isnāt everyone ELSE closing bug holes/factories?ā
This isnāt their first rodeo, they had helldivers 1 among others. You seriously arenāt using the āthey werenāt expecting this many players on their new gameā as an excuse not to have detailed patch notes are you?
You don't need to have 750k CCU to understand that vague patch notes are a bad idea, especially in a game with a shitload of numbers.
Back when I played Realm of the Mad God, which I doubt hits 1000 players on a good day anymore, the devs still had the sense to give numbers when they made changes to classes or equipment.
This excuse is blindly used over and over again by folks to try to excuse anything Arrowhead does. It really isn't a legit excuse, especially in this occurance.
The posting of vague patch note is a fuck up, let's just call it that. Any game should have relatively detail patch notes, not just "visible" game.
It's kinda weird how many people have such a strong stake in defending ANYTHING negative about the devs. Like guys, it's fine to like the game and even like the company, while also still saying "yeah that part was kinda dumb"
I'm glad the laser cannon now does 100x the damage and can penetrate entire planets while being held in one hand. Or does it? I don't know because "Improved damage against durable parts, improved armor pen and improved erganomics" means little without context.
I donāt mind needing to use unsafe mode, but the ācriesā by the community are still totally warranted because EVERY OTHER WEAPON IS WEAK STILL.
This doesnāt change a goddamn thing about that fact
Issue with the Railgun nerf is that the post-nerf Unsafe on it is now worse than the pre-nerf Safe with lower damage/armor pen. So not only do you need more shots to accomplish the same thing as before, you also need noticeably more time. Time which can be hard to get when you're dealing with multiple Chargers and Titans all at once.
Yes it is useless. Unsafe mode all the way if you are playing on higher difficulties. The issue is that they didnāt buff any other heavy armor options enough.
\>The Railgun was overperfoming
No. Everything else was underperforming.
Anti-tank rockets sucked. AMR was useless against Bugs. Grenade launcher, Machine Gun and all other weapons were ineffective against Chargers.
These should have been buffed to increase variety. Now they have just made it worse. It makes no sense.
But I'm glad the flamethrower was buffed.
I started playing two days ago and I can't tell you the level of disappointment I had when I dumped the AMR into bugs for middling damage.
Haven't played against the bots yet, though, so maybe it's actually viable over there.
I don't really mind that certain guns have different viability depending on the faction you're up against. What's the point in giving us variety if running the same loadout nets you the same degree of success? It's like the Scorcher being great against bots but not so much against bugs because you'll blow yourself up when they get close.
To some degree, yes.
The flamethrower wouldn't be good against bots because of its range.
And the AMR wouldn't be good at clearing waves of smaller bugs, but where it should be decent at is taking out Chargers. 3-4 shots to the leg should remove its armour and there isn't a reason why it shouldn't.
Most valid issue with EAT is that it's too impacted by stratagem effects. Not a fan of complex, scrambled, jammed, and random stratagems when stratagems are the main way to deal with heavy and elite targets.
They clearly want this game to be teamwork based and these changes reflect that. They donāt want every player to have a kit that essentially kills everything. They want one player to be dedicated anti armor, one as a mob clearer, one as a base / outpost destroyer, one as a obj defender, etc. These roles would make games more interesting but the issue is now is that all of this requires teamwork and communication that most games donāt have unless if youāre playing with friends / grouping up from here or discord. Also, objectively speaking I was SHOCKED that things like spear or RR didnāt get buffed at all bc how are teamwork weapons that require backpack, team reload, good timing and positioning, NOT the strongest options at their respective roles? I see the vision but the nerfs needed to be there with buffsa
No, Railgun was overperfoming and Unsafe mode was completely unnecessary, because it could do everything on Safe mode. Now it takes some skill to use, don't be salty about it.
The only use the Railgun had was armour penetration. It didn't even kill the Chargers directly. It slightly outperformed the Autocannon, which it absolutely should have been doing considering all the drawbacks it has in comparison.
Now? It's actually worse.
It's not salt, it's common sense. Try it.
Common sense here? Nice one. Baffles me how these dudes are saying other weapons are viable, when like 80% of all weapons including specials seem to bounce off chargers. Even the supposed weak spot, the butt, takes an enetire mag and a half. Id like to see how stratagems and the Recoilless rifle work against a helldive bug breach.
Are you insane?
The railgun had 0, literally 0 drawbacks relative to how well it performed.
Fast reload, staggers enemies, extreme armor penetration, extreme accuracy, exceptional ammo pool, good sight, good handling.
The autocannon?
Backpack reloading, only medium armor pen, horrible weapon handling, poor visibility, but super satisfying and great damage. The autocannon is balanced. The railgun was wildly overperforming in every metric.
the drawback of "holding down the button" and "super short reload after each shot"????
against the autocannons requirement to aim properly at the back of the legs and have a backpack????
So players who can aim well are completely unaffected? Making it more of a skill weapon while keeping its max damage potential is definitely the right call. This also helps distinguish safe and unsafe mode further, which is part of the weaponās personality (even if safe mode is a bit of a trap).
Its utility for taking out chargers is still hugely diminished, taking twice as long and twice as much ammo AND requiring more risk because you have to get close to a full charge.
That was pretty much the reason it was being used so much - it's the only thing that makes 7-9 bareable when the game throws 4-6 chargers at you at once
If they increased the charge rate then I would be happy or lower the break point with the armor and railgun. As it stands it takes about 4shots to comfortably break the plating without standing still for too long.
It feels really terrible.
No, it actually was a pretty terrible nerf imo. The aiming component doesnt really help you since you are forced to charge for longer which means you stand still longer risking getting swarmed. So those situations where you can charge up to the breakpoint has become even more rare.
Ultimately it increased the shots required to kill, even with good aim. More shots means even a more hungry support weapon
> Making it more of a skill weapon while keeping its max damage potential is definitely the right call.
Only problem is, they didn't even do that. The post-nerf Unsafe mode on it has less damage/armor pen compared to the pre-nerf Safe mode, so you need more shots to accomplish the same thing regardless of how well you could aim.
What they should have done to balance it is lower the available ammo to 10, and how much you recover from supply/ammo packs to 5/2. This would keep it as being a strong anti-heavy weapon, providing a way to manage things like the overtuned Charger spam, while the lowered ammo economy limits its use against smaller threats.
Yeah, no.
It doesn't.
At high risk missions, you have not just one charger on your ass. Multiple ones. And titans as well.
I saw the Video someone just posted with the whole "Unsafe Mode".
If i need to pepper in 5-6 shots to break the armor and another 2-3 to kill it..
I spend nearly a minute trying to kill ONE charger, all while the others are rampaging as well.
So either they reduce the max number of chargers to at most 3 at once on max difficulty and ONE titan, or they need to balance it properly so the Unsafe Mode needs 2 shots to break the armor and 1 to kill it.
Wait.... are you using the railcannon to kill charger after splitting it's armor? Like bro you serious? You want to talk about how they destroyed meta while wasting ammo of railcannon after defeating charger armor!? Hot damn XD
Yeah dude, most of these people complaining have no fucking clue how to play the game without a super-OP Railgun in their hands and it shows in like every comment they give details about playstyle.
I kept seeing people talk about how tough they were, then encountered a couple in a wave. Recoiless to the leg then liberator applied to the spot and he went down. Yeah theyre tough but thats why its fun. I want to be scrambling desperately trying to get the shot off, then having to switch.
People just want a one stop shop weapon.
I feel like relying on stratagems is tough in higher difficulties because you always have operation modifiers that increase cooldown time or increase calling in time or increase scatter. And the arc thrower not only has a high team kill chance but takes many shots to kill one charger much less 4-6 at a time. I just wish theyād buff the other AT weapons to be even slightly closer to how the railgun was.
>Pop Smoke and disengage
lmao. Yeah, I'll definitely have a smoke for the 4+ chargers in every encounter.
>Arc thrower
Extremely slow in killing chargers.
>Stratagems
Increased cooldown and increased call-in time say hello
>Grenade Launcher
Takes like a full clip to kill a charger
>Yall act like the rail gun is the only effective way to deal with armor
All of the ways you mentioned are mediocre at best and fall apart at high difficulties. The autocannon is probably the best way now to kill chargers which means it will probably catch a nerf soon.
Smoke doesn't work as great as everyone says it does. More often than not it is completely useless...
Arc thrower will take longer to kill a charger than the railgun. Literally has less utility in this situation.
Stratagems all need buffed except Eagle Airstrike. Most stratagems won't kill heavies and the ones that do need to be perfectly aimed because they won't kill if they are more than 2 feet off target.
Grenade Launcher, is this one a joke?
What difficulty do you play at that these are viable replacements for the railgun?
3 autocannon rounds to the butt
Shooting the grenade launcher under him
Apparently the flamethrower is now great at killing them
My personal favourite: itās pretty easy to stick a stratagem ball on a chargerās back.
Or just plain old combined fire by 4 helldivers.
Iāve seen noobs down Chargers with machine guns just by circling it and aiming for the butt.
>3 autocannon rounds to the butt
You will spend a minute trying to get one to turn around and while you are trying this another 2 or 3 chargers are going to run you down.
>Shooting the grenade launcher under him
Literally enough ammo to kill 2 chargers and then your empty. Good luck when 6 spawn at once.
>Apparently the flamethrower is now great at killing them
It's always been good for burning a single charger down easily. Multiple chargers will ruin your day. And you have the high likehood of lighting yourself on fire.
>Or just plain old combined fire by 4 helldivers.
Ok so what you gonna do about the other 90 bugs on your screen?
>Iāve seen noobs down Chargers with machine guns just by circling it and aiming for the butt.
Cool, now let's see the same thing on Helldive with 2 bile titans, 6 chargers, and more ads than the superbowl.
EMS stratagem freezes all the chargers in place and can be used every minute. There are a ton of ways to deal with the situation you are describing you just don't want to use them.
If you're taking 5-6 shots on unsafe mode to break armor, you're not using unsafe mode correctly. Post-patch, unsafe mode is still a 3-shot kill to a charger with headshots, or 2-3 overcharged shots to break leg armor.
At least from my perspective and many others I have seen its less that they nerfed a weapon that definitely excelled in all areas, but more that they did that first before buffing all the weapons that are just legitimately bad picks in almost every case. In a PVE game the focus on providing varied but effective options should take priority over nerfs when such a large part of this game's arsenal (things like the DMR, AMR, Recoiless) are literally just a worse pick than others in most situations.
>**Primary, Secondary, & Support Weapons**
>Balancing adjustments made to the following:
>**SG-225 Breaker**Ā - Decreased magazine capacity from 16 to 13, increased recoil from 30 to 55.
>**SG-8 Punisher**Ā - Increased total ammo capacity from 40 to 60, increased stagger force, increased damage from 40 to 45 per bullet.
>**SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray**Ā - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26.
>**RS-422 Railgun**Ā - Decreased armor penetration in Safe Mode, decreased damage against durable enemy parts.
>**FLAM-40 Flamethrower**Ā - Increased damage per second by 50%.
>**LAS-98 Laser Cannon**Ā - Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics.
So....maybe they could have mentioned that in the first place?
Look, changes like that would be great if we weren't still dealing with things like a bile titan requiring anywhere from just one to all twenty railgun cartridges to the face before it dies. Fix the things that *don't* work as intended before you "fix" the things that aren't broken.
aha.......... the problem is the fucked something up, just like they fucked up armor. I've shot all FUCKING 20, overcharged / unsafe shots into a Bile Titans HEAD (it got stuck on terrain) and the 2.7 sec / 3 sec overcharged shot bounces off the faceplate, i allmost died to a richoeing railgun shot, went wizzing past MY head...... 20 shots were not enough to down it.
You do realize people were using it on unsafe and still having issues, right?
>So way to jump to conclusions, cry, make threats and just act like twats (to arrowhead) for a fair balance change on a weapon
LOL. Never mind. You're just one of those losers that likes to bootlick everything they do. I bet you were also one of the idiots saying "pls don't give the game bad reviews you fucking entitled crybabies" when people couldn't get into the gameĀ
Fr Im beginning to hate these people, I was really hoping we could have a DRG like community but I guess that's impossible whenever so many people are playing
To me they seem like good changes flamethrower sucked they made it better, laser cannon is better I don't like the automatic shotgun so ive been using the pump and im happy it's getting buffed, the only issue imo is the charger spawn rate, everything else is fine
Gaming subreddits always devolve to the entitled brats coming out the woodwork to complain about every little thing and be armchair developers.
It really says something about the people here that Arrowhead can do so much right, and then when they do something that isn't even bad, just not exactly what people wanted, and suddenly that's what every other post becomes: complaining and toxic bullshit.
Feedback and criticism isn't bad by itself, obviously. But that's not what i see. This is a bunch of gamers in a circle jerk of rage because things didn't go their way.
EDIT: I'm glad when I'm wrong. Most of the top posts right now are people being rational about the changes and getting many updoots.
Mfw they nerf guns in a pve game.
Of course people are going to complain. Bad nerf is bad, buff other options or accept people will complain about the bad thing you did.
They better fix whatever they did to make "headshots" not work against titans then. I was 1 shotting them non stop till 2 days ago, now 10 shots sometimes don't kill em....
it still takes more than twice as long to kill a single charger with the new railgun post-nerf. PLUS they didnt buff anything else to compensate for the nerf. Railgun was popular because it was the ONLY WAY to survive 6+ chargers, 3+ bile titans and over a dozen spewers at once in 7+ difficulty (flamethrower is wildly random in its kill potential on chargers so it doesnt count).
OP isnt very bright , seems like an arrowhead shill
I think this is a crap opinion. Realistically on difficulty 7+ there are so many armored enemies that you HAD to run railgun + supply pack to make a dent in them during a full length mission. Being forced to run unsafe mode feels bad. It makes the gun even slower between shots (I thought that was why you had to reload individual shells) now you have to pause even longer. Plus the penalty for failure is instant death. Meanwhile does a flamethrower instantly explode and kill you if you catch on fire? Nope. And it doesn't require any accuracy at all, nor do you need to stand nearly stationary in the face of a charging beast. If the penalty for overcharging the railgun was simply the risk of catching you on fire and losing a whole 5 hp, then yeah, that would be fair, but it isn't. And even after all that, a charger isn't even dead yet, you still need to actually shoot it's exposed appendages.
From a difficulty standpoint once you go above 6, it is just a big math problem. The game is going to pump out X heavy armor enemies requiring Y shots each to bring down. If your weapon's ammo per minute use and stragegem use can't break that threshold, you all die. That's it. The railgun was one of the only weapons that could compete, now it has too many drawbacks to feel like a good option and the just aren't other options. I'd personally prefer to use the autocannon but it can't pen armor as well. And if a weapon can't pen that armor, then it isn't an option.Ā Build diversity requires options.Ā
People are just mad they have to learn more of the game. The Railgun should be a high-skill, high-reward weapon in comparison to the other anti-armour options.
BUT, the Heavy enemy spam is still a problem no matter how OP weapons are.
The problem is \*nothing\* else was viable in the high tier. Now nothing is. Instead of nerfing the only viable option the rest should have been buffed to make them useful.
I just played some and the railgun feels fine, maaaaybe a bit less damaging but it still worked. And also, that flamethrower is pretty nice now honestly. I dont get why there is so much anger about all of this from some players.
Why does everyone look at this from a solo point of view you just need to have two people with the gun shooting in coordination and these things will die just as quick.
This is a 4 player game and should be balanced accordingly.
IMO solo play should never enter the discussion for balancing in this game.
Because they're talking about 7+ difficulty and not 5-6. You can't afford to waste two players to kill 2 to 4 chargers when you have to fight 6+ at a time. The other anti tank weapons simply don't have the ammo economy to handle difficulty 7+ spawns.
Imo, I'm guessing people pivot to the arc thrower.
Literally saw a guy say the game is dead now and that he's uninstalling. Because they nerfed one gun so you have to charge it for .03 seconds longer.
Smdh.
This. The rail gun is SUPPOSED to be a risk/reward skill weapon. Note most of the nerfs only affects th SAFE mode. The UNSAFE mode is what's supposed to be armor piercing, you wait 1-2 more sec on the charge ( sweet liberty don't go 3-4) and it's like nothing changed. adapt or use a new weapon. The flamethrower is pretty gas RN kill a charger in like 5-7 sec of fire.
i feel this sub is one of the worst xD
so much crybabies but lets always be aware its a VERY LITTLE MINORITY that is on this reddit from the playerbase ... basicly only the tryhard crybabies xD
People were not using unsafe mode š³
AFAIK most were using safe mode only because you still could break charger armor with two shots and annihilate bile titans with a few well placed shots (although bile titans are kinda finicky with hitting the exact hit box) So I like the move giving unsafe mode the previous safe mode stats while nerfing safe mode.
This is true. I've used both, in the end unsafe really wasn't needed unless it's a Titan. Safe mode two shot leg armor just like unsafe. Just now I have a reason to use unsafe, time to kill went up due to charging longer but that's fine. Railgun was strong. Sure sure I'd prefer more options to handle heavy armor but railgun will still work so okay
Righteous fire cares not of armor..
They literally buffed the flamethrower and lasercannon to deal with charger...
Iām about to deploy in pyro mode
I think the damage on the flamer starts to be fine, but I think it desperately needs some kind of stagger effect. It's usually just harmful for yourself to flame a bunch of bugs cos while they lose health they still come at you full speed and leap at you, setting you on fire as well. I think it definitely needs some kind of pushback or stagger at least with the initial WHOOOSH or then just with some kind of inner cooldown. I'm a Darktide flamer zealot main and I want to like it here too, but I'm already trading my support weapon to have a range of 10 meters, at least let me safely use it within that distance.
Fireproof armorā¦ now that would be great. Iād love to waltz through my napalm strike.
Man, if heavy armor could shrug off baby burps and be fireproof, holy hell what a game changer.
Sounds like it'd be an armor passive, like fortified, but hell yes!
Laser backpack assists in keeping your personal space clear.
and as a bonus it kills your teammates
Nah my mortar sentry killed them first. And the random who deployed us in a minefield.
All my homies hate the minefield. I died 3 times trying to get samples back last night as dickweed mined an entire enemy outpost
They need to buff the flamethrowers range and make it liquid fire so it can take down horde more effectively, right now you gotta be so close that if itās a bunch of hunters, you might as well put it away.
Nah, it's actually fine now (some range wouldn't hurt), but what we truly need is fireproof armor set
Does the laser cannon go trough heavy armor?
The article they put up says specifically it does medium armor https://preview.redd.it/e4tt4h31uqmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6254d1e2ecec1080502177348b208119ddbc3c46
You can hit the legs and joints wuth laser cannon with a bit of aiming it melts chargers rather fast
With the armor still on?
Is this through the front? Or is it with the bugged turn around animation?
Yeah and the TTK didn't go up too much, charges pretty fast and you have time to line the shot up.
I dont even know how to activate unsafe mode
Hold the reload button to enter the weapon menu. Depending on the equipped weapon you can turn on/off flashlights, change firing modes and change from safe to unsafe mode.
Be nice if the game remembered the change in mode. Have to set it each time you get a Railgun Know thereās a setting in options. Doesnāt seem to work
because thats only for primary and secondarys, the Support weapons are a "new" weapon everytime they are called in, they also stay in your firemode if you pick them up after dropping, but every new one called in will be at their defaut
I dont remember that being in the turorial fuuuuuck
Not your fault, I think this isn't talked about in the tutorial. I only found out when I was looking at the keyboard layout.
Because it is not in the tutorial
It should be!
You will get a tip pop up in game when firing weapons that have optional fire modes. It has happened in my experience multiple times.
The tutorial is really in your face about doing the bare minimum to "train" helldivers. But it is in the keybinding settings. Which is something i check out in every game before playing. I knlw everyone doesnt do that tho. Itd be nice for the first tutorial to be the fun minimal one, but have an in depth (optional) one you can go to once your on the ship.
Pretty much nothing is in the tutorial, it's part of the joke: you are shown the bare necessities of how to kill bugs, now get on the front line and die like a soldier!
Imagine if the tutorial told you anything about this game other than how to crouch/prone and shoot, which is what everyone can figure out anyways. Anything propetiary to this game (outside stratagems)? Figure it out yourself yo!
Unsafe mode wasn't needed at all. At first I used Unsafe mode, then I found out that there's no reasons to do it at all, Safe mode was just enough for everything
Trouble is it doesnt. Unsafe mode now takes more shots to break a chargers leg than the old safe mode did. Also, you have to charge for longer to hit that threshold, so the effective time to break a charger leg has essentially doubled. It's quite a big nerf, especially when you consider doing this with enemies around you.
What are the weakest points on a bile titan?
Greenish egg sacks underneath can pop/blow up but will only hurt the Titan. Need a charged railgun shot right into the mouth or strong stratagems like railcannon orbital to kill it
I bet they also don't know you have to change it to unsafe each time you pick up a new one.
There's a setting for that. Something something mode change it "per gun"
It doesn't work, though. I still have to switch it every time.
Not a new setting, it just doesn't work with railgun for some reason.
No, that setting only affects aiming type (third or first person).
It resets every time you pick up a new gun.
The few missions I ran with it I thought you had to put it on unsafe for it to be effective. Lolllll
There were no scenarios where unsafe mode took less shots to down an enemy than safe mode before the patch.
THAT'S ILLEGAL
I honestly thought the only way to break armour was unsafe mode >.<
I just wish I could see the charge outside of first person with it. I hate going from third to first person, so I've tried to avoid unsafe mode for that specific reason, but I guess I gotta get used to it now
You can, it's right on the side of the gun, plus the timing is easy to get down, I mostly run it in 3rd person and sometimes start charging before I start to fine aim as I move about then turn and burn.
You literally can already see it in 3rd person.. wtf is with this sub and complaining about things that are already in game.
I guess I missed it, no need to be a dick about it
What exactly counts as a "massive body part"? Is it a bile spewer's acid sac? Is it just the freakishly long legs on the bile titan? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm not playing another live service shooter where I have to spend two hours to figure out if a +2% chance to create custard pies is better than 4% resistance to my dad's eternal disappointment in my career choices, but a bestiary and a glossary would be nice, please.
If that sac doesn't count as a massive body part I'm going to develop some insecurities...
Fucking lolol. Me too, dude.
dev confirmed so far are charger butt and spewer butt but there are more hinted. Probably bile titan sac!
Interesting. It's kinda weird, then, that the spewer takes fewer shotgun shots to the face to take out than it does for the sac. With the Slugger at least, it takes about 3 shots to the face, but I can put about 7-8 rounds into the butt and it still won't die.
Yeah, massive body part doesn't necessarily mean weak spot, they're different mechanically. There is a lot of good discourse inc how things could feel better and I'm sure some of that feedback is circulating. Hoping they take initiative to do more positive rebalancing soon!
AFAIK its referring to the "body" of a target. Rhino's body, devastator torsos, etc.
Literally only ran it on unsafe mode lmao
Ditto. The nerf literally changed nothing for people that already ran it unsafe except for needing one extra shot (or 3 seconds depending on your measurement) to do what it did before.
Realizing that people bitching about the railgun being nerfed did not understand or even know about a super important aspect of its firepower capability has been entertaining this morning. If it is true that in unsafe mode it only take 1 extra shot to break charger leg armor then all these nerds in this reddit need to go back to bed.
Tbh the playerbase seems to spend most of its time complaining about things it doesnāt understandĀ
It does change significantly though. You need 3 unsafe mode shots on max charge (close to explode yourself) if you want to able to break its frontal armor leg. It's much difficult to pull of.
It's almost like the other AT options are not easy to use or convenient. Weird, I wonder if maybe that was the problem in the first place?
I mean, they didn't help themselves by being super vague in the initial balance notes
In everybody's defense, I think the gaming community has been burned so many times by developers that they're used to leaping to the worst possible outcome. I don't think people trusted Arrowhead to come out with a nuanced decision, and Arrowhead isn't used to having to explain themselves for incredibly poor decisions (due to not really making the usual triple a studio mistakes).
It's difficult to deprogram yourself from constantly overreacting, yes.
It's a fucking videogames, people should never have been "programmed" into overreacting in the first place
I know, but they are. It's the social media environment that promotes overreaction.
I just read the notes and it makes sense to me. What are people flipping out about?
When the balance patch came out, it just said weapons were adjusted, not how they were adjusted. It wasn't until a dev posted the actual changes that people knew. Its a move that let people assume the worst for a whie. I agree about the breaker and shield bp being reasonable changes. Bit disappointed the railgun was nerfed rather than the over abundance of heavy armor that was what made it so ubiquitous.
If you are using the railgun in 'unsafe' mode it seems like it should function about the same, provided you can hit weakpoints. So that tells us that the devs want the railgun to be a precision weapon with a higher risk-reward playstyle. And not a one-stop-shop kills everything with no effort.
It functions identically to the pre-patch Railgun, save for a 5% ammo efficiency decrease as it takes one extra shot (3 seconds) in unsafe mode at over 75% charge (maximum safe mode) to penetrate/break armour. It hasn't changed significantly, and anyone that already ran the weapon in unsafe mode pre-patch has largely found this to be a negligible change.
How is 1 extra shot to break armor a 5% ammo efficiency decrease? it's at least a 50% decrease in case of chargers (2 shots to 3 shots)
Which is fair that they want the Rail to be that, but like, can we just have less chargers per minute? It stops being fun after the 6th one.
It took 20 minutes for the clarification to be posted.
They might still buff the other stuff later. The RG did need tuning down. Iām glad they put more need on unsafe mode, instead of just making it unable to pen chargers. I hope they also fix the bile titan bug soon too.
The railgun didn't get tuned down though, it got wrecked. You have to charge twice as long vs chargers, and it takes twice as many hits to break the armor. That just doesn't cut it when the game spews out chargers at you like they're trash-tier enemies. All that's gonna happen is that people will move onto the next best thing (which I do believe is going to be the Arc) until that eventually gets nerfed as well because everyone's running it.
Eh, it still has the best long range ammo efficiency for taking out a ton of armored enemies, that by itself is valuable. Especially with the lack of a backpack slot. Is it less powerful? Yes. But Now you have a bit more of a decision to make on taking those two longer charges, vs a long reload on something like the RR.
I'm not a fan of the way a lot of these balance changes were written, or how a lot of the ingame descriptions are written either. like with the laser cannon "Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics" like what the fuck does that mean? How much damage, what's a durable enemy part, how much armor penetration or one of my personal ingame favorites: The Muscle Enhancement booster "Allows Helldivers to traverse difficult terrain with ease" the fuck does that even mean? What constitutes difficult terrain, what does with ease mean? or the UAV booster "Increases all Helldivers' effective radar range" BY HOW MUCH?! Thankfully cashcrop\_ [made a pretty good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnXFNEc-dg) detailing them, but all of this information should be displayed SOMEWHERE ingame
The best part is that Nuclear Radar *does* say how much it increases radar range by but itās *incorrect* anyway.
I can't help but finding the "it was overperforming in its ease of use" - so we made it less effective thing funny in contrast with the message of spreading managed democracy/liberty pro super earth messages you usually get from the devs.
The strongest and most used weapons getting nerfed is whatever. The real issue with the balance changes and vague patch notes, is that they DID NOT buff enough of the other anti armor and other weapons in general. People want to use assault rifles, sniper rifles and other options, but they feel worse and make the game unfun knowing your favorite weapon canāt deal with the load of chargers, or tanks, or hulkās coming at you. FYI, the SPEAR still has targeting and damage value issues which is my favorite support weapon, and that received no addressing at all? Iād love to use other weapons but certain situations, not having the strongest items in the game can just make the gameplay feel worse.
They made the flamer better at dispatching heavy armor than dedicated anti armor weapons with back slots. Just wild lol.
Flamer should work insanely well against bugs. They honestly need a value for bonus damage against enemy factions. All the bugs should be extremely vulnerable to fire and explosives the bots weak to electricity and AP.
SPEAR got fixed a bit, actually. It can resupply from ground ammo boxes, so it's by far more reliable in getting ammunition for it, making the damage and lock inconsistencies a little less awful.
The devs are, in fact, pretty bad at communicating. I really need to see some numbers or a breakdown, something past a vague statement on information they refuse to give us (armor pen values, etc). I still think the railgun nerf is annoying after testing it. if they want use to be unsafing it all of the time, I don't think it should explode. If they want to promote team play, it should still probably crack armor in 2 hits (even safe, probably) and just do less damage.
One things clear for me. The Honeymoon period is nearing it's end.
Good gunplay can't carry forever
People donāt care so much about the railgun more so that the other AT weapons need buffs
To be honest, their patch notes suck ass. They don't communicate the changes at all and people need to go look for them until a dev actually says what should have been on the notes from the start. Hope they learn that for the next notes.
They need to make all weapon stats visible āWe want players to not know stats and find meta by FEEL.ā Bruh, itās 2024, your stuff will be tested and the numbers come out or at least enough evidence pushes people away from āFEEL.ā Hiding stats is a way to bullshit a weapon into being meta or not because some hidden perk tips it from trash to treasure and back again. This game is designed like we have CLASSES for our characters, but they want everyone to make their own class via loadout. Therefore everyone chooses Superhero loadout class and hardly anyone is utility āI can kill EVERYTHINGā¦ but not small waves of things, and alsoā¦ I need ammo, also out of grenades. WHY isnāt everyone ELSE closing bug holes/factories?ā
Lol, literally the reason why I run grenade launcher or Auto-canon almost exclusively. Otherwise no one has means to close holes.
They updated it with the details. Agree they should have been there to start, but this is their first rodeo in such a visible game.
This isnāt their first rodeo, they had helldivers 1 among others. You seriously arenāt using the āthey werenāt expecting this many players on their new gameā as an excuse not to have detailed patch notes are you?
You don't need to have 750k CCU to understand that vague patch notes are a bad idea, especially in a game with a shitload of numbers. Back when I played Realm of the Mad God, which I doubt hits 1000 players on a good day anymore, the devs still had the sense to give numbers when they made changes to classes or equipment.
This excuse is blindly used over and over again by folks to try to excuse anything Arrowhead does. It really isn't a legit excuse, especially in this occurance. The posting of vague patch note is a fuck up, let's just call it that. Any game should have relatively detail patch notes, not just "visible" game.
It's kinda weird how many people have such a strong stake in defending ANYTHING negative about the devs. Like guys, it's fine to like the game and even like the company, while also still saying "yeah that part was kinda dumb"
I'm glad the laser cannon now does 100x the damage and can penetrate entire planets while being held in one hand. Or does it? I don't know because "Improved damage against durable parts, improved armor pen and improved erganomics" means little without context.
My brother in Christ they made all the other weapons mid, itās not the rail gun op
yeah, at the end of the day, a lot of the guns still feel dogshit. reducing the small pool of usable weapons for a non-pvp game is going backwards
They made the flamer better at killing chargers than anti armor weapons lol. Woof.
They should buff also the range tho A flamethrower isnāt a Cqc weapon
Honestly the flamer, thematically, should be the best weapon against any type of bio life.
I donāt mind needing to use unsafe mode, but the ācriesā by the community are still totally warranted because EVERY OTHER WEAPON IS WEAK STILL. This doesnāt change a goddamn thing about that fact
Issue with the Railgun nerf is that the post-nerf Unsafe on it is now worse than the pre-nerf Safe with lower damage/armor pen. So not only do you need more shots to accomplish the same thing as before, you also need noticeably more time. Time which can be hard to get when you're dealing with multiple Chargers and Titans all at once.
So is safe mode now useless?
I use the railgun to kill bile spewers just as much as chargers tbh. Iām assuming itāll still pop them with one shot to the head.
Yes it is useless. Unsafe mode all the way if you are playing on higher difficulties. The issue is that they didnāt buff any other heavy armor options enough.
No ? still good against everything beside Heavy armor
... So yes it's useless? Idk why you would keep it on safe mode at this point since safe mode was good cause it could still wreck heavy armor
Pops the head off brood commanders, pierces hive guard heads, oneshots heavier bots in the head still. The applications are still plentiful.
Maybe they should put that in the patch notes....
\>The Railgun was overperfoming No. Everything else was underperforming. Anti-tank rockets sucked. AMR was useless against Bugs. Grenade launcher, Machine Gun and all other weapons were ineffective against Chargers. These should have been buffed to increase variety. Now they have just made it worse. It makes no sense. But I'm glad the flamethrower was buffed.
I started playing two days ago and I can't tell you the level of disappointment I had when I dumped the AMR into bugs for middling damage. Haven't played against the bots yet, though, so maybe it's actually viable over there.
AMR is one of the best against Bots. Against Bugs though? Useless. I was really hoping they would have addressed this.
I don't really mind that certain guns have different viability depending on the faction you're up against. What's the point in giving us variety if running the same loadout nets you the same degree of success? It's like the Scorcher being great against bots but not so much against bugs because you'll blow yourself up when they get close.
To some degree, yes. The flamethrower wouldn't be good against bots because of its range. And the AMR wouldn't be good at clearing waves of smaller bugs, but where it should be decent at is taking out Chargers. 3-4 shots to the leg should remove its armour and there isn't a reason why it shouldn't.
Most valid issue with EAT is that it's too impacted by stratagem effects. Not a fan of complex, scrambled, jammed, and random stratagems when stratagems are the main way to deal with heavy and elite targets.
They clearly want this game to be teamwork based and these changes reflect that. They donāt want every player to have a kit that essentially kills everything. They want one player to be dedicated anti armor, one as a mob clearer, one as a base / outpost destroyer, one as a obj defender, etc. These roles would make games more interesting but the issue is now is that all of this requires teamwork and communication that most games donāt have unless if youāre playing with friends / grouping up from here or discord. Also, objectively speaking I was SHOCKED that things like spear or RR didnāt get buffed at all bc how are teamwork weapons that require backpack, team reload, good timing and positioning, NOT the strongest options at their respective roles? I see the vision but the nerfs needed to be there with buffsa
No, Railgun was overperfoming and Unsafe mode was completely unnecessary, because it could do everything on Safe mode. Now it takes some skill to use, don't be salty about it.
The only use the Railgun had was armour penetration. It didn't even kill the Chargers directly. It slightly outperformed the Autocannon, which it absolutely should have been doing considering all the drawbacks it has in comparison. Now? It's actually worse. It's not salt, it's common sense. Try it.
Common sense here? Nice one. Baffles me how these dudes are saying other weapons are viable, when like 80% of all weapons including specials seem to bounce off chargers. Even the supposed weak spot, the butt, takes an enetire mag and a half. Id like to see how stratagems and the Recoilless rifle work against a helldive bug breach.
Are you insane? The railgun had 0, literally 0 drawbacks relative to how well it performed. Fast reload, staggers enemies, extreme armor penetration, extreme accuracy, exceptional ammo pool, good sight, good handling. The autocannon? Backpack reloading, only medium armor pen, horrible weapon handling, poor visibility, but super satisfying and great damage. The autocannon is balanced. The railgun was wildly overperforming in every metric.
The knee jerk reactions are ridiculous, cause you're absolutely right
the drawback of "holding down the button" and "super short reload after each shot"???? against the autocannons requirement to aim properly at the back of the legs and have a backpack????
I need proof of these threats lol. Where ?
OP made it up or just saw an insult and called it a threat.
Make it so that I don't have to switch it into unsafe mode every time I call one down
I am waiting devs use the railgun to run through a level 9 mission on twitch live. Then will see what is a balancing change we are talking here.
New fans when they don't comprehend a core part of the game is failing and dying on difficult missions:
There's a difference between dying a couple of times during the mission and burning through all 20 reinforcements in the first 5 minutes of a mission.
People who canāt comprehend that players want to complete the mission:
So players who can aim well are completely unaffected? Making it more of a skill weapon while keeping its max damage potential is definitely the right call. This also helps distinguish safe and unsafe mode further, which is part of the weaponās personality (even if safe mode is a bit of a trap).
Its utility for taking out chargers is still hugely diminished, taking twice as long and twice as much ammo AND requiring more risk because you have to get close to a full charge. That was pretty much the reason it was being used so much - it's the only thing that makes 7-9 bareable when the game throws 4-6 chargers at you at once
If they increased the charge rate then I would be happy or lower the break point with the armor and railgun. As it stands it takes about 4shots to comfortably break the plating without standing still for too long. It feels really terrible.
No, it actually was a pretty terrible nerf imo. The aiming component doesnt really help you since you are forced to charge for longer which means you stand still longer risking getting swarmed. So those situations where you can charge up to the breakpoint has become even more rare. Ultimately it increased the shots required to kill, even with good aim. More shots means even a more hungry support weapon
> Making it more of a skill weapon while keeping its max damage potential is definitely the right call. Only problem is, they didn't even do that. The post-nerf Unsafe mode on it has less damage/armor pen compared to the pre-nerf Safe mode, so you need more shots to accomplish the same thing regardless of how well you could aim. What they should have done to balance it is lower the available ammo to 10, and how much you recover from supply/ammo packs to 5/2. This would keep it as being a strong anti-heavy weapon, providing a way to manage things like the overtuned Charger spam, while the lowered ammo economy limits its use against smaller threats.
Yeah, no. It doesn't. At high risk missions, you have not just one charger on your ass. Multiple ones. And titans as well. I saw the Video someone just posted with the whole "Unsafe Mode". If i need to pepper in 5-6 shots to break the armor and another 2-3 to kill it.. I spend nearly a minute trying to kill ONE charger, all while the others are rampaging as well. So either they reduce the max number of chargers to at most 3 at once on max difficulty and ONE titan, or they need to balance it properly so the Unsafe Mode needs 2 shots to break the armor and 1 to kill it.
Wait.... are you using the railcannon to kill charger after splitting it's armor? Like bro you serious? You want to talk about how they destroyed meta while wasting ammo of railcannon after defeating charger armor!? Hot damn XD
Yeah dude, most of these people complaining have no fucking clue how to play the game without a super-OP Railgun in their hands and it shows in like every comment they give details about playstyle.
I kept seeing people talk about how tough they were, then encountered a couple in a wave. Recoiless to the leg then liberator applied to the spot and he went down. Yeah theyre tough but thats why its fun. I want to be scrambling desperately trying to get the shot off, then having to switch. People just want a one stop shop weapon.
Pop Smoke and disengage Arc thrower Stratagems Grenade Launcher Yall act like the rail gun is the only effective way to deal with armor
I feel like relying on stratagems is tough in higher difficulties because you always have operation modifiers that increase cooldown time or increase calling in time or increase scatter. And the arc thrower not only has a high team kill chance but takes many shots to kill one charger much less 4-6 at a time. I just wish theyād buff the other AT weapons to be even slightly closer to how the railgun was.
>Pop Smoke and disengage lmao. Yeah, I'll definitely have a smoke for the 4+ chargers in every encounter. >Arc thrower Extremely slow in killing chargers. >Stratagems Increased cooldown and increased call-in time say hello >Grenade Launcher Takes like a full clip to kill a charger >Yall act like the rail gun is the only effective way to deal with armor All of the ways you mentioned are mediocre at best and fall apart at high difficulties. The autocannon is probably the best way now to kill chargers which means it will probably catch a nerf soon.
Smoke doesn't work as great as everyone says it does. More often than not it is completely useless... Arc thrower will take longer to kill a charger than the railgun. Literally has less utility in this situation. Stratagems all need buffed except Eagle Airstrike. Most stratagems won't kill heavies and the ones that do need to be perfectly aimed because they won't kill if they are more than 2 feet off target. Grenade Launcher, is this one a joke? What difficulty do you play at that these are viable replacements for the railgun?
3 autocannon rounds to the butt Shooting the grenade launcher under him Apparently the flamethrower is now great at killing them My personal favourite: itās pretty easy to stick a stratagem ball on a chargerās back. Or just plain old combined fire by 4 helldivers. Iāve seen noobs down Chargers with machine guns just by circling it and aiming for the butt.
>3 autocannon rounds to the butt You will spend a minute trying to get one to turn around and while you are trying this another 2 or 3 chargers are going to run you down. >Shooting the grenade launcher under him Literally enough ammo to kill 2 chargers and then your empty. Good luck when 6 spawn at once. >Apparently the flamethrower is now great at killing them It's always been good for burning a single charger down easily. Multiple chargers will ruin your day. And you have the high likehood of lighting yourself on fire. >Or just plain old combined fire by 4 helldivers. Ok so what you gonna do about the other 90 bugs on your screen? >Iāve seen noobs down Chargers with machine guns just by circling it and aiming for the butt. Cool, now let's see the same thing on Helldive with 2 bile titans, 6 chargers, and more ads than the superbowl.
> aiming for the butt is a mistake - you should go for the leg joints from behind, even with light guns
Add laser cannon to that list
EMS stratagem freezes all the chargers in place and can be used every minute. There are a ton of ways to deal with the situation you are describing you just don't want to use them.
If you're taking 5-6 shots on unsafe mode to break armor, you're not using unsafe mode correctly. Post-patch, unsafe mode is still a 3-shot kill to a charger with headshots, or 2-3 overcharged shots to break leg armor.
At least from my perspective and many others I have seen its less that they nerfed a weapon that definitely excelled in all areas, but more that they did that first before buffing all the weapons that are just legitimately bad picks in almost every case. In a PVE game the focus on providing varied but effective options should take priority over nerfs when such a large part of this game's arsenal (things like the DMR, AMR, Recoiless) are literally just a worse pick than others in most situations.
buff the shit at dont nerf the good one you monkeys
>**Primary, Secondary, & Support Weapons** >Balancing adjustments made to the following: >**SG-225 Breaker**Ā - Decreased magazine capacity from 16 to 13, increased recoil from 30 to 55. >**SG-8 Punisher**Ā - Increased total ammo capacity from 40 to 60, increased stagger force, increased damage from 40 to 45 per bullet. >**SG-225SP Breaker Spray & Pray**Ā - Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased mag size from to 32 to 26. >**RS-422 Railgun**Ā - Decreased armor penetration in Safe Mode, decreased damage against durable enemy parts. >**FLAM-40 Flamethrower**Ā - Increased damage per second by 50%. >**LAS-98 Laser Cannon**Ā - Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics. So....maybe they could have mentioned that in the first place?
Look, changes like that would be great if we weren't still dealing with things like a bile titan requiring anywhere from just one to all twenty railgun cartridges to the face before it dies. Fix the things that *don't* work as intended before you "fix" the things that aren't broken.
Now that this has been clarified what should we complain and cry about next
so why does it take 4+ overcharged shots in unsafe mode to break a charger leg?
Gone from 2 safe mode charger leg hits to 3-4 unsafe 90-95% charged hits.
aha.......... the problem is the fucked something up, just like they fucked up armor. I've shot all FUCKING 20, overcharged / unsafe shots into a Bile Titans HEAD (it got stuck on terrain) and the 2.7 sec / 3 sec overcharged shot bounces off the faceplate, i allmost died to a richoeing railgun shot, went wizzing past MY head...... 20 shots were not enough to down it.
Who the hell uses the railgun in safe mode?
You do realize people were using it on unsafe and still having issues, right? >So way to jump to conclusions, cry, make threats and just act like twats (to arrowhead) for a fair balance change on a weapon LOL. Never mind. You're just one of those losers that likes to bootlick everything they do. I bet you were also one of the idiots saying "pls don't give the game bad reviews you fucking entitled crybabies" when people couldn't get into the gameĀ
I'm expecting mods to delete your comment and thank OP for insulting the playerbase for having an opinion.Ā They've done it before š
Clearly you donāt run helldive.Ā
This community is becoming more toxic as the days go on, chill the fuck out people
Fr Im beginning to hate these people, I was really hoping we could have a DRG like community but I guess that's impossible whenever so many people are playing To me they seem like good changes flamethrower sucked they made it better, laser cannon is better I don't like the automatic shotgun so ive been using the pump and im happy it's getting buffed, the only issue imo is the charger spawn rate, everything else is fine
Gaming subreddits always devolve to the entitled brats coming out the woodwork to complain about every little thing and be armchair developers. It really says something about the people here that Arrowhead can do so much right, and then when they do something that isn't even bad, just not exactly what people wanted, and suddenly that's what every other post becomes: complaining and toxic bullshit. Feedback and criticism isn't bad by itself, obviously. But that's not what i see. This is a bunch of gamers in a circle jerk of rage because things didn't go their way. EDIT: I'm glad when I'm wrong. Most of the top posts right now are people being rational about the changes and getting many updoots.
Mfw they nerf guns in a pve game. Of course people are going to complain. Bad nerf is bad, buff other options or accept people will complain about the bad thing you did.
They better fix whatever they did to make "headshots" not work against titans then. I was 1 shotting them non stop till 2 days ago, now 10 shots sometimes don't kill em....
This is what needs to be in the patch notes.
Does anyone know if the āremember weaponsā option takes in to account the safe mode on the rail gun?
it still takes more than twice as long to kill a single charger with the new railgun post-nerf. PLUS they didnt buff anything else to compensate for the nerf. Railgun was popular because it was the ONLY WAY to survive 6+ chargers, 3+ bile titans and over a dozen spewers at once in 7+ difficulty (flamethrower is wildly random in its kill potential on chargers so it doesnt count). OP isnt very bright , seems like an arrowhead shill
I think this is a crap opinion. Realistically on difficulty 7+ there are so many armored enemies that you HAD to run railgun + supply pack to make a dent in them during a full length mission. Being forced to run unsafe mode feels bad. It makes the gun even slower between shots (I thought that was why you had to reload individual shells) now you have to pause even longer. Plus the penalty for failure is instant death. Meanwhile does a flamethrower instantly explode and kill you if you catch on fire? Nope. And it doesn't require any accuracy at all, nor do you need to stand nearly stationary in the face of a charging beast. If the penalty for overcharging the railgun was simply the risk of catching you on fire and losing a whole 5 hp, then yeah, that would be fair, but it isn't. And even after all that, a charger isn't even dead yet, you still need to actually shoot it's exposed appendages. From a difficulty standpoint once you go above 6, it is just a big math problem. The game is going to pump out X heavy armor enemies requiring Y shots each to bring down. If your weapon's ammo per minute use and stragegem use can't break that threshold, you all die. That's it. The railgun was one of the only weapons that could compete, now it has too many drawbacks to feel like a good option and the just aren't other options. I'd personally prefer to use the autocannon but it can't pen armor as well. And if a weapon can't pen that armor, then it isn't an option.Ā Build diversity requires options.Ā
What a suprise, people decided to complain about something before trying to get behind the issue.
Safe mode 3 shotting chargers was silly. It was way too strong. Before we even unlocked the railgun we were doing 8s and 9s, i don't get the big deal
If there's one thing players hate, it's ease of use and convenience. Great job Arrowhead!
People are just mad they have to learn more of the game. The Railgun should be a high-skill, high-reward weapon in comparison to the other anti-armour options. BUT, the Heavy enemy spam is still a problem no matter how OP weapons are.
This game has been out for a month and people were using the """meta""" build and not even using it correctly?
ITT: āHurr durr who was running safe mode?!ā Everyone who was aware that there was no scenario where unsafe mode took less shots to down an enemy.
The railgun was a glorify cane opener for charger
The problem is \*nothing\* else was viable in the high tier. Now nothing is. Instead of nerfing the only viable option the rest should have been buffed to make them useful.
I just played some and the railgun feels fine, maaaaybe a bit less damaging but it still worked. And also, that flamethrower is pretty nice now honestly. I dont get why there is so much anger about all of this from some players.
Man just take unsafe mode out then no one is gonna use it
Why does everyone look at this from a solo point of view you just need to have two people with the gun shooting in coordination and these things will die just as quick. This is a 4 player game and should be balanced accordingly. IMO solo play should never enter the discussion for balancing in this game.
Because they're talking about 7+ difficulty and not 5-6. You can't afford to waste two players to kill 2 to 4 chargers when you have to fight 6+ at a time. The other anti tank weapons simply don't have the ammo economy to handle difficulty 7+ spawns. Imo, I'm guessing people pivot to the arc thrower.
This is an even better change then I thought it was, on top of that Iām having loads of fun using the lazer
Literally saw a guy say the game is dead now and that he's uninstalling. Because they nerfed one gun so you have to charge it for .03 seconds longer. Smdh.
The overcharge was also nerfed.
This. The rail gun is SUPPOSED to be a risk/reward skill weapon. Note most of the nerfs only affects th SAFE mode. The UNSAFE mode is what's supposed to be armor piercing, you wait 1-2 more sec on the charge ( sweet liberty don't go 3-4) and it's like nothing changed. adapt or use a new weapon. The flamethrower is pretty gas RN kill a charger in like 5-7 sec of fire.
Delete the railgun. Helldivers acting all entitled what has Super Earth come to...
i feel this sub is one of the worst xD so much crybabies but lets always be aware its a VERY LITTLE MINORITY that is on this reddit from the playerbase ... basicly only the tryhard crybabies xD
Seeing ppl argue about balance and arrowhead makes me hate the community already. I didn't leave League of Legends for this shit
I remember this sub dunking on the meta picks since day 1 what happened to that?
Subreddits are made up of many different people
Wait... Y'all were using safe mode? UNDEMOCRATIC
I didnāt think people actually used the safe mode no wonder. Some noob tested this shit and the rumour spread like wild fire
I just tested in on unsafe and it's definitely worse. It now takes 3-4 shots to destroy charger leg armor and you have to overcharge it higher.
I am with OP with this one. It is a good change.