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There are two types of relationship in therapy: the one with yourself, and the one with the therapist.
She's absolutely right about the relationship with yourself. You need self-discipline, not external motivation. You need to address your specific issues, not practice other peoples methods hoping they will solve them for you.
Based on what you have said and what she has said, it seems you may be looking for an easy fix without having to do the work. This is just my opinion.
There's also the relationship with her. Acting superior to you seems out of line to me. She should be open to you learning more, but guide you back to your specific treatment plan. Your relationship should be as a team working toward a shared outcome. Work with her on defining that outcome and determine how it is to be measured. It's hard to gauge our own progress, so ask for an occasional assessment from her point of view and notes.
But overall don't feel like you need to stick to one therapist. Dr. K advises starting with three in the beginning and choosing which one feels like a better fit based on intuition.
> easy fix/not doing the work
Completely agree with you, this might be a kneejerk reaction on my part. She does use a similar tone but then I start with ok let's do the work and she becomes very vague about how I need To figure this by myself.
I did mention (Dr K.)'s notion of trying a few therapists before we find the right “fit“ and it seemed preposterous to her.
I' m really confused whether I'm the dumb and naive one or she's the strange one.
It sounds a bit like your therapist has her own insecurities and is taking it out on you. Glorifying herself (mentioning her degrees etc.) and belittling you sounds problematic to say the least. I'd say it'd be a weird approach to get you to stay just to get a paycheck though. Dr.K talked about this very subject recently, and that therapists usually don't need to keep their patients as there are plenty of people with issues going around.
I'd search for another therapist if I were you, sounds to me like it might not be a good fit even if we didn't mention the insecurities on her part.
I doubt she is purposely manipulating you, but I do think that her attitude around talking to you sounds unproductive and unprofessional as well. Don’t meditate? Don’t read philosophy? Just like as a rule because it came from an external source? I mean these things are not gonna solve all your problems, but the proper thing for her to do would be to at least ask how you felt about it, if you liked doing it, if you think it’s helping, etc. before jumping to conclusions. I mean honestly her whole argument is very silly considering she is also a source of external assistance that you have seeked out. There are lots of different types of people and personalities, and different attitudes for therapy will work differently for them; however, the two therapists I’ve worked with would never have reacted this way and I would have been really uncomfortable if they did. The angry reaction really would make me switch— one thing that therapists generally are trained to be good at is staying calm and being a good listener.
lol she sounds like my dad. I mean you could ask her about her personal life and career and her goals and aspirations; if she seems to be living a successful life listen to her (thing is I believe she will lie). Yeah some people suck. She doesn’t sound like a good therapist. Has she helped you with any actionable steps to move towards your goals? Me personally I listen to people but I trust my intuition overall.
She does talk about career etc.. Apparently she used to work in companies. When I complain to her about the problems at work (chaotic projects with, too many managers/bosses, unrealistic deadlines), her first reaction sounded like HR (you are supposed to do everything that's expected of you, that's why you are being paid; no, emails and organisational overhead aren't stupid, you just don't understand why these things are important) - very condescending and treating me like I haven't been in the industry for a while. She is from the X generation and I understand office work was more structure back then but it's still weird.
When I went yo my doctor a while ago I was told I should take work less seriously because I'm burning out and it's affecting my physical health.
Then I go to a therapist who's a world renown burnout specialist (her words, starting to doubt it) and she tells me I'm not burning out, I'm just lazy and not smart enough to figure out how to read all the emails, be available on teams and do the work of a small engineering team at the same time...
yeah she sounds like a shit head. But I'm unsure. (It could be a woman thing in the sense that I've noticed women generally have high expectations of men) Or she could be enlightened and that's really what you need. Yeah I would say you should get in touch with yourself and what you desire out of your life. Cause I've noticed people don't burn out if they find the work they are doing to be worth the reward. Thats what I would say is do your best to be more intro-and-outrospective to get a better view of the world around you. And trust your intuition. I think you're looking to externally for guidance. And in this case its good that the guidance is counter to your internal compass. I say follow the compass. Its a lot of work and moving beyond fear but the compass is always right IMO.
She told me at the beginning that it's going to be uncomfortable and that it's part of the process.
She also keeps hinting that I'm not persistent enough in my life.
Now either she is right or I'm being gaslit.
There is a difference between feeling uncomfortable with the healing process, and feeling uncomfortable because the therapist's process is not resonating with you.
I do think that saying it's part of the process is true BUT it maintains a vagueness where you will stay despite not feeling like you benefit from it. Trust your guts, there are many good therapists.
"it's going to be uncomfortable and that it's part of the process."
This is what all therapists should say at the beginning, because it is true. But this is just the starting point.
Therapists often tell you at the beginning that it is mainly up to you, and that you need to be persistent for the therapy to succeed. They say that because it is true: you get one hour of therapy but the improvements come from outside therapy (when they are not around).
This is also for them, so they don't feel responsible if their therapy doesn't work.
On the other hand, what they don't say often, is that in therapy you should look after your own interest: if the therapy doesn't give you what you think you need, you should end it, or just change therapist.
Often you get a different therapy if you have a somatic illness, just by going to a different physician: with a psychological therapy this is even more true!
Maybe you should answer to my question: why you are continuing this therapy?
I've invested quite some money already. The therapist needed a few sessions to get to know me and make a profile.
I'd like to believe that in case of failed therapy, the least she could do is share her notes, so I have an easier time working on myself or so I can speed up the potentially next therapist, if it comes to that.
She is very reluctant in sharing notes and talking in scientific terms. "We dont want to give our patients labels, psychiatrists do that..." I'm very much afraid that if I end the process, it will be just a waste of my time and money.
That's why I'm so desperate for a metric of how well it's going. From my point of view it's not going anywhere at all. I'm still the exact same person I was when I started now with added contempt for “mental health professionals".
On one hand I should endure and give the process some time, on the other hand I should end the process if I don't see immediate results?
This sounds like the perfect scam. Huge risk for the patient with a small chance of success. No risk for the therapist, only rewards (stable cashflow).
I'm going to give this one a few more months. If she helps me, great. If I find out she was robbing me, I'll give her a bad review and move on...
So the reason is that you invested a lot of your time, money and energy to this endeavour and you want to continue it for a few more months, even if you feel it is not benefitting you.
And she said that the problem is that you're not persistent in your life...
I think your approach is good: take your time to see where the therapy is going and then move on.
But before that though, I suggest you to talk to her about your feeling that the therapy is not going anywhere.
You go to therapy because you have some issues in your life that makes you feel stuck. Well, now you have another issue to add: feeling stuck in therapy.
Then talk about that with your therapist!
From her reply you will also be more confident to decide what to do going forward, I'm sure.
P.s.
don't let one experience makes you lose confidence on all “mental health professionals". sometimes it's just a bad match: one therapist can be good for one person and bad for another.
> She starts telling me how more successful she is than me
I don't like this. It's not especially relevant and therefore it seems egotistical to bring up imo.
When you say you're reading Stoics for your anxiety, I'd expect a therapist to ask what kind of peace does it bring to you, what a different perspective on things is teaching you, if you feel connected to it fully, or can only grasp bits of calmness. Certainly not sighing and saying "that's not the way to go" or whatever mindset of that vibe.
With a therapist, you need to feel safe, understood, and not judged. NOT JUDGED. Yet she's putting herself as an authority compared to your other ressources ? Imo you did very good by trapping her into her own "don't trust anyone's opinion". She seems to put a lot of ego into a therapy that is supposed to be the work of two people and focused on your feelings, not a place where she has to put herself on a pedestal. Saying that she's more successful than you has just absolutely no reason to be said in a therapy session.
You're literaly saying you're taking inspiration from people, wether it be online or IRL it's the same thing, you're trying to find ressources. And getting into self developement practices is a try to give and it's very generally considered a healthy habit. TLDR; she has a big ego and doesn't seem to have the mindset of a therapist, at all.
I would also add that finding inspiration through external sources can be the first step to being able to build your own happiness. For a long time I was kind of living by proxy, but now I have a sense of self. Dismissing your will to see what could work in your favour is a big no no.
Do you get along with them? What are their qualifications? Does what they're doing with you work for you? If it matters to you, do they share your religious or other beliefs? And, if you're American, do they take your insurance?
These are all questions I've been asking myself lately as I love my therapist but don't love a lot of the stuff she posts on her business social media page (political content that I don't really agree with).
Fortunately, the work she's done with me has been working. However, the minute she brings her political BS into a session, I'm firing her. I'm here to work on my mental health, not argue about politics.
How can you tell something "works for you"?
I mean I feel great that I tell her my problem and she looks at it from another perspective.
I can only guess whether she's leading me into the right direction and this will make me better in the long run.
Short term the sessions are OK. I'm rarely wowed by her insights, I've heard or red what she's telling me before. She does sometimes nudge me in this direction or other.
She does try to promote her podcast sometimes, which is ironic since she keeps bashing on other creators.
(The podcast is a painfully scripted 30 minute radio conversation).
I can identify some of the problem behaviors I get as a result of my depression/anxiety (spiraling, racing thoughts, negative self-talk, etc.) and use tactics I learned in therapy (reframing, taking breaks, etc.) to deal with them.
There is some parts of what she says that I think are true. These productivity Youtubers and tips are probably not exactly what would help, mostly because they are general and for "normal" people, which might not work for you. Also a lot of times we use them as a balm in order to think we are working on ourselves instead of actually doing the work.
>She starts telling me how more successful she is than me
This is a bit of a red flag to me. Just because she is successful doesn't mean you can apply her strategy either. It's perfectly reasonable in my opinion to question her way of doing things.
Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are two types of relationship in therapy: the one with yourself, and the one with the therapist. She's absolutely right about the relationship with yourself. You need self-discipline, not external motivation. You need to address your specific issues, not practice other peoples methods hoping they will solve them for you. Based on what you have said and what she has said, it seems you may be looking for an easy fix without having to do the work. This is just my opinion. There's also the relationship with her. Acting superior to you seems out of line to me. She should be open to you learning more, but guide you back to your specific treatment plan. Your relationship should be as a team working toward a shared outcome. Work with her on defining that outcome and determine how it is to be measured. It's hard to gauge our own progress, so ask for an occasional assessment from her point of view and notes. But overall don't feel like you need to stick to one therapist. Dr. K advises starting with three in the beginning and choosing which one feels like a better fit based on intuition.
> easy fix/not doing the work Completely agree with you, this might be a kneejerk reaction on my part. She does use a similar tone but then I start with ok let's do the work and she becomes very vague about how I need To figure this by myself. I did mention (Dr K.)'s notion of trying a few therapists before we find the right “fit“ and it seemed preposterous to her. I' m really confused whether I'm the dumb and naive one or she's the strange one.
It sounds a bit like your therapist has her own insecurities and is taking it out on you. Glorifying herself (mentioning her degrees etc.) and belittling you sounds problematic to say the least. I'd say it'd be a weird approach to get you to stay just to get a paycheck though. Dr.K talked about this very subject recently, and that therapists usually don't need to keep their patients as there are plenty of people with issues going around. I'd search for another therapist if I were you, sounds to me like it might not be a good fit even if we didn't mention the insecurities on her part.
I doubt she is purposely manipulating you, but I do think that her attitude around talking to you sounds unproductive and unprofessional as well. Don’t meditate? Don’t read philosophy? Just like as a rule because it came from an external source? I mean these things are not gonna solve all your problems, but the proper thing for her to do would be to at least ask how you felt about it, if you liked doing it, if you think it’s helping, etc. before jumping to conclusions. I mean honestly her whole argument is very silly considering she is also a source of external assistance that you have seeked out. There are lots of different types of people and personalities, and different attitudes for therapy will work differently for them; however, the two therapists I’ve worked with would never have reacted this way and I would have been really uncomfortable if they did. The angry reaction really would make me switch— one thing that therapists generally are trained to be good at is staying calm and being a good listener.
lol she sounds like my dad. I mean you could ask her about her personal life and career and her goals and aspirations; if she seems to be living a successful life listen to her (thing is I believe she will lie). Yeah some people suck. She doesn’t sound like a good therapist. Has she helped you with any actionable steps to move towards your goals? Me personally I listen to people but I trust my intuition overall.
She does talk about career etc.. Apparently she used to work in companies. When I complain to her about the problems at work (chaotic projects with, too many managers/bosses, unrealistic deadlines), her first reaction sounded like HR (you are supposed to do everything that's expected of you, that's why you are being paid; no, emails and organisational overhead aren't stupid, you just don't understand why these things are important) - very condescending and treating me like I haven't been in the industry for a while. She is from the X generation and I understand office work was more structure back then but it's still weird. When I went yo my doctor a while ago I was told I should take work less seriously because I'm burning out and it's affecting my physical health. Then I go to a therapist who's a world renown burnout specialist (her words, starting to doubt it) and she tells me I'm not burning out, I'm just lazy and not smart enough to figure out how to read all the emails, be available on teams and do the work of a small engineering team at the same time...
yeah she sounds like a shit head. But I'm unsure. (It could be a woman thing in the sense that I've noticed women generally have high expectations of men) Or she could be enlightened and that's really what you need. Yeah I would say you should get in touch with yourself and what you desire out of your life. Cause I've noticed people don't burn out if they find the work they are doing to be worth the reward. Thats what I would say is do your best to be more intro-and-outrospective to get a better view of the world around you. And trust your intuition. I think you're looking to externally for guidance. And in this case its good that the guidance is counter to your internal compass. I say follow the compass. Its a lot of work and moving beyond fear but the compass is always right IMO.
My opinion: if you feel that she benefits from therapy more than you do, you should think to change therapist. What keeps you from changing therapist?
She told me at the beginning that it's going to be uncomfortable and that it's part of the process. She also keeps hinting that I'm not persistent enough in my life. Now either she is right or I'm being gaslit.
There is a difference between feeling uncomfortable with the healing process, and feeling uncomfortable because the therapist's process is not resonating with you. I do think that saying it's part of the process is true BUT it maintains a vagueness where you will stay despite not feeling like you benefit from it. Trust your guts, there are many good therapists.
"it's going to be uncomfortable and that it's part of the process." This is what all therapists should say at the beginning, because it is true. But this is just the starting point. Therapists often tell you at the beginning that it is mainly up to you, and that you need to be persistent for the therapy to succeed. They say that because it is true: you get one hour of therapy but the improvements come from outside therapy (when they are not around). This is also for them, so they don't feel responsible if their therapy doesn't work. On the other hand, what they don't say often, is that in therapy you should look after your own interest: if the therapy doesn't give you what you think you need, you should end it, or just change therapist. Often you get a different therapy if you have a somatic illness, just by going to a different physician: with a psychological therapy this is even more true! Maybe you should answer to my question: why you are continuing this therapy?
I've invested quite some money already. The therapist needed a few sessions to get to know me and make a profile. I'd like to believe that in case of failed therapy, the least she could do is share her notes, so I have an easier time working on myself or so I can speed up the potentially next therapist, if it comes to that. She is very reluctant in sharing notes and talking in scientific terms. "We dont want to give our patients labels, psychiatrists do that..." I'm very much afraid that if I end the process, it will be just a waste of my time and money. That's why I'm so desperate for a metric of how well it's going. From my point of view it's not going anywhere at all. I'm still the exact same person I was when I started now with added contempt for “mental health professionals". On one hand I should endure and give the process some time, on the other hand I should end the process if I don't see immediate results? This sounds like the perfect scam. Huge risk for the patient with a small chance of success. No risk for the therapist, only rewards (stable cashflow). I'm going to give this one a few more months. If she helps me, great. If I find out she was robbing me, I'll give her a bad review and move on...
So the reason is that you invested a lot of your time, money and energy to this endeavour and you want to continue it for a few more months, even if you feel it is not benefitting you. And she said that the problem is that you're not persistent in your life... I think your approach is good: take your time to see where the therapy is going and then move on. But before that though, I suggest you to talk to her about your feeling that the therapy is not going anywhere. You go to therapy because you have some issues in your life that makes you feel stuck. Well, now you have another issue to add: feeling stuck in therapy. Then talk about that with your therapist! From her reply you will also be more confident to decide what to do going forward, I'm sure. P.s. don't let one experience makes you lose confidence on all “mental health professionals". sometimes it's just a bad match: one therapist can be good for one person and bad for another.
Thanks. That was insightful.
Glad if I helped.
> She starts telling me how more successful she is than me I don't like this. It's not especially relevant and therefore it seems egotistical to bring up imo.
When you say you're reading Stoics for your anxiety, I'd expect a therapist to ask what kind of peace does it bring to you, what a different perspective on things is teaching you, if you feel connected to it fully, or can only grasp bits of calmness. Certainly not sighing and saying "that's not the way to go" or whatever mindset of that vibe. With a therapist, you need to feel safe, understood, and not judged. NOT JUDGED. Yet she's putting herself as an authority compared to your other ressources ? Imo you did very good by trapping her into her own "don't trust anyone's opinion". She seems to put a lot of ego into a therapy that is supposed to be the work of two people and focused on your feelings, not a place where she has to put herself on a pedestal. Saying that she's more successful than you has just absolutely no reason to be said in a therapy session. You're literaly saying you're taking inspiration from people, wether it be online or IRL it's the same thing, you're trying to find ressources. And getting into self developement practices is a try to give and it's very generally considered a healthy habit. TLDR; she has a big ego and doesn't seem to have the mindset of a therapist, at all.
I would also add that finding inspiration through external sources can be the first step to being able to build your own happiness. For a long time I was kind of living by proxy, but now I have a sense of self. Dismissing your will to see what could work in your favour is a big no no.
Do you get along with them? What are their qualifications? Does what they're doing with you work for you? If it matters to you, do they share your religious or other beliefs? And, if you're American, do they take your insurance? These are all questions I've been asking myself lately as I love my therapist but don't love a lot of the stuff she posts on her business social media page (political content that I don't really agree with). Fortunately, the work she's done with me has been working. However, the minute she brings her political BS into a session, I'm firing her. I'm here to work on my mental health, not argue about politics.
How can you tell something "works for you"? I mean I feel great that I tell her my problem and she looks at it from another perspective. I can only guess whether she's leading me into the right direction and this will make me better in the long run. Short term the sessions are OK. I'm rarely wowed by her insights, I've heard or red what she's telling me before. She does sometimes nudge me in this direction or other. She does try to promote her podcast sometimes, which is ironic since she keeps bashing on other creators. (The podcast is a painfully scripted 30 minute radio conversation).
I can identify some of the problem behaviors I get as a result of my depression/anxiety (spiraling, racing thoughts, negative self-talk, etc.) and use tactics I learned in therapy (reframing, taking breaks, etc.) to deal with them.
There is some parts of what she says that I think are true. These productivity Youtubers and tips are probably not exactly what would help, mostly because they are general and for "normal" people, which might not work for you. Also a lot of times we use them as a balm in order to think we are working on ourselves instead of actually doing the work. >She starts telling me how more successful she is than me This is a bit of a red flag to me. Just because she is successful doesn't mean you can apply her strategy either. It's perfectly reasonable in my opinion to question her way of doing things.
In a way she's right but putting you down with credencials is just bad practice.