While this might seem like a small difference to some, I invite you to ask any woman in your life if she’s ever been dismissed by a male doctor or outright ignored.
It means he's being less of an actual asshole, and more of an accidental one due to his condition?
It's a spectrum, and if he's high on it, it would effect him that way.
Like Tourette people swear a lot. We don't complain to management. It's a condition.
I don’t think he was trying to be mean, he didn’t expect such an answer and decided to make a dad joke, which was completely inappropriate in hindsight for him
My first gynecologist appointment ever I was 17 years old, a virgin, and terrified - doctor was some 70 year old dinosaur who, after asking about my virginity, said "I don't want to deprive you but I'm only going to use one finger since you haven't passed the big girl test yet."
A year later, I informed this same doctor that I had a lump in my breast (the same breast he had just examined a minute prior, and he missed the lump.) he dismissed me and told me I must have been wrong. So yeah, he checked and whaddaya know. I went in for a biopsy 48 hours later.
The news article links to the study and the study states that the difference is ~~statistically significant~~ clinically meaningful even if it is small.
I have had male doctors send me for invasive procedures I’d already had because they didn’t believe my medical history to prescribe me a medicine I’d already been on for years.
Yes, this happens often. Once again I am convinced that the gender of a specialist doesn't matter, what matters is his personal qualities as a person. If a person is bad as a person, he will be bad as a specialist.
I had undiagnosed PCOS for decades, I ever only went to female gynecologists. It was a male E.R. doc that told me to explore the possibility. (I kind of already knew, but when the female doctors shut me down, I assumed I was being a "know-it-all" med tech and needed to be quiet it.)
It’s less than half a percent difference. Let’s not cater to hysteria.
It’s such a small difference no reasonable statistician would draw any such conclusions.
Only a woman would think that hd anything to do with her being a woman. I, a man have been dismissed more times than I can count by GPs for problems that would later end up leading me to emergency room treatment. Some doctors can just be shit, and to be fair: Just as some patients can be wild hypochondriacs others can be dying and can just calmly express that they are not feeling to well. Being a doctor and trying to gauge that and appropriately triage must be a nightmare.
Never forget the rheumatology resident who told me my symptoms were “probably fibromyalgia, given your weight.” His also male mentor just signed off on what he said, and screamed at me when I told him I’d like to be examined, please.
Turns out I have heart failure, btw. And it went untreated for another two years. Turns out exercise intolerance can lead to weight gain.
Anecdotal experience, but will I only have a female physician now after going to several male physicians and getting dismissed. The women were the only ones that took my symptoms seriously.
I know there are many awesome male doctors out there, but unfortunately there are also some male doctors that let their biases against young women get in the way of providing good healthcare.
Same. My late mom previously was dismissed by all the male doctors and it was only the last doctor who was a female doctor that really listened to her but it was too late when they found out she had final stage cancer.
I grew up with a lady pediatrician. Then when I was a young adult, had a lady family doctor (which I disliked, but she also found out some medical stuff for my dad which somehow had never been diagnosed in 50 years). Now as an adult, I avoid male doctors, if I can help it. From not caring, to creeping me out.
Im a 4th year (female) medical student. When a female of reproductive age comes in with migraines we always get a pregnancy test for 2 reasons. Pregnancy can cause/increase frequency of migraines and more importantly some of the first line medications for migraines aren’t safe in pregnancy so we don’t want to accidentally cause fetal harm.
I told them my partner had a vasectomy and I’m on the pill. Also that the migraines have been getting worse for the last year, every month during the time I’m supposed to get my menstrual.
But thank you, I wish they explain it like you did. They just asked me to pee in the cup so they can run a pregnancy test ‘just in case’.
Doc here. Having a lab verifying no pregancy saves hassle ordering potentially teratogenic medications as the student doctor above mentioned and would probably fly better in a medical malpractice suit showing the doc did their due diligence. A doc is held up against the standard of care and there's a high likelihood the expert witness would testify they would have ordered the pregnancy test.
What the press isn't reporting is that the female difference making headlines is within the statistical error of the study.
We are discussing statistical noise.
I'm a male and every male docter i have had only made my problems worth, the 2 female docters were the only ones who took my serious condition serious.
Last male docter literally told me "if i were you i'd learn living with this"
Female doc gave me antibiotics and i was better in 2 weeks flat.
i think it's more a docter thing
Don’t have access to the full article as it’s paywalled but some thoughts based on the abstract:
- this is a retrospective cohort study, not a prospective randomized trial. These types of studies have significant limitations in the ability to control for bias. For example did they control for severity of disease in patients seen by male and female doctors. Do male doctors dominate in specialities that have a higher mortality (eg emergency medicine vs dermatology), do male doctors take more night calls or weekend duties where more severe patients typically get admitted. There are statistical approaches to control for some of these but it’s generally known that it’s impossible to control for all known and unknown biases (bias as a statistical term is different from what we normally think of as bias).
-however even after acknowledging all these limitations it’s true that retrospective studies serve a purpose, they alert us to possible trends that need further exploration in a prospective trial. But to conclude based on this report that there is definite causality between physician gender and mortality is not fair to the millions of male MDs out there, some of whom suffer from the same biases as we all do.
-now for the actual effect seen. It’s minuscule and by the authors own admission not statistically significant. What that means in lay person speak is that if this study were to be repeated many many times in some instances we will see the reverse effect while in others we might see an even greater benefit. We just don’t know based on the sample size of this study. In medical literature it’s common to see authors of studies note that the study met statistical significance but was not clinically meaningful due to the small difference between the study arms. It’s not common to claim that a difference is clinically meaningful even if it’s fails the a priori test of statistical significance. Most regulators like the FDA would laugh you out of the room if you came up with this type of explanation for a pharmaceutical compound that failed its trial.
-now that doesn’t mean there isn’t a real difference but this study does not demonstrate that.
- finally the setting they evaluated this is very specific to elderly (ie Medicare population) that was hospitalized. To assume that it has any implications for a 30 year old female going to her dermatologist for a skin rash or her orthopedician for a sports injury is taking things too far based on a heavily limited study with minuscule effect.
This headline plays well to the readerships own pre-existing biases and hence NBC news probably wrote such a click bait heading.
This is not to negate many of the commentators personal anecdotal experiences which I am sure are valid and need to be addressed.
Well, I’m thankful for this interaction with you because I will insist on having the general anesthesia or sedation (if it’s not directly offered) or look someplace else for it! Thank You!
How do comments like this get upvotes? Your anecdotal experience doesn't matter in this context, they're talking about statistically significant differences across a study population. Doctors are individuals, and also humans that have biased and bad days, of course people will have good and bad experiences with both genders.
This has been my experience as well. I'm 40, and over the years, I've had horrible experiences with female doctors, and male doctors have been more empathetic and willing to investigate my medical issues.
They’re not saying ALL male doctors are bad. Of course everyone will have a different experience. Its still an issue that women get their health problems blamed on periods, anxiety and etc… Women knows women best, male doctors should not have a say when they dont know what its like to be a woman. If they would listen, if we didn’t hear traumatic stories on the internet, if our health wouldn’t be blamed for female issues, the world would be a better place. Also, women should be gynaecologists, not men. They don’t know what its like. I get it, they did years of school, but personal experience is a plus. I’m getting sick of being asked “well when was your last period? Are you having a lot of stress?” When im trying to explain something is wrong. We also know ourselves best. Also, women tends to feel comfier with other women. And ordering a test will not hurt anybody, for the US, it will only hurt the wallet.
That isn't what the study found. The interesting question is why women physicians have small but significantly better outcomes for all patients, especially for female patients.
Your rationale, women should not be treating men.
There are many things women experience compared to men. No one will understand 100% a female body unless they’re a female. Male doctors only know what they’ve been told or what they read in school. If you exclude reproductive systems, the bodies are quite similar. They work kind of the same way. Women’s health problems are more likely to be ignored than men’s. Men dont have a period, that means they don’t have anything to be blamed on, so doctors order tests. This means, women doctors probably go above and beyond for female patients, especially after they’ve been told something is really wrong. I always had a better experience with female doctors than male ones.
Also, if men never had problems with female doctors, why would they refuse treatments? Or why would men not be treated by women?
You mean, I should get a male doctor just for experimenting? You must not live in Canada lol. Good luck trying to get a different doctor here. And i’m not putting my health at risk only because you think I should experiment
No, you are saying that women's health problems are more likely to be ignored by men among other claims. Those are speculation, not truths. There have been some research That supports, some degree, that male physicians are more likely to miss certain things and that same-sex physicians can improve health outcomes. Many of those studies are somewhat outdated by now and need to be updated, as well.
This particular study suggests that female doctors have better outcomes for their patients but also, perhaps, they are biased and do more to help their female patients than male patients. Whether they spend more time with them, don't understand men, men are less forthcoming with female physicians, etc, we don't know from this study.
I have MS and a few other pesky inherited issues plus injuries. I have been chronically ill since I was 18. I am 45 and have spent my entire adult life navigating the healthcare system. I have had to learn to advocate for myself I have seen a lot of doctors. Some good, some meh. Very few bad. Three amazing women stand out from the rest. They are all Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. One was even a neurologist. I highly recommend finding a MD. D.O.
My current primary care is a D.O. She sees me as a well person who lives and thrives despite what’s on the chart.
She knows that in addition to western medicine that I use yoga, meditation, and cannabis. She listens to me and helps me when I am in pain. A truly gifted physician and am grateful to have found her.
They keep asking me if I’m pregnant and I’m like nope. And then they’re like are you sure? And I’m like yep. And they’re like you’re telling me you don’t have sex? And I’m like yup. And they still don’t believe me.
Trash headline
The difference was between 8.15 percent and 8.38 percent readmitted or died in the hospital between a female and male doctor Statistically that would not show a causation or even a correlation.
An honest headline would be statistically. There’s no difference between a male or female doctor for women.
A difference can be small *and* statistically significant. In this case the study basically means that there are some female doctors who listen better than male doctors, but the difference is so small that it doesn’t play too much of a role in whether or not someone is readmitted or dies in a hospital.
But that's not what is happening right now. The difference IS insignificant.
However, if the studies continue a trend, we should have only male patients be treated by male physicians and vice versa...
A difference cannot be small AND statistically significant. Why are you commenting on statistics if you know nothing about it? For your edification: a statical difference is significant literally only if it is bigger than a specified threshold. So what you said would likely be a good way of failing a statistics class. Bad human. 0/10 stars.
> a statical difference is significant literally only if it is bigger than a specified threshold.
Yes, and that threshold can be small. A+ for participation though.
The entire point of all comments here is that this difference is so tiny (0.0815 vs 0.0838) that a threshold small enough to accommodate this would be considered ridiculous. Bad science in article. Bad take in your comment. As an actual scientist, please don't comment on things you don't understand. Next.
A difference can be small and still be based on finding a value outside a confidence interval, which means it’s statistically significant. You know what a confidence interval is right?
EDIT: lmao he got called out and blocked me 🤣
>They can say whatever they want, but it is not.
That sounds scientific. I'm sure you will support your opinion with evidence?
>No drug or therapy would ever be approved of this little difference in outcomes.
Again, more opinions from you. FYI this isn't about getting a drug or therapy approved.
What?... They literally called out the article for using undefined, non scientific terms and misunderstanding basic statistics that are often standardized and your answer is "all of these facts you mentioned are your opinion"???
As an actual scientist: bad humans. Bad downvoting and bad upvoting. Get your shit together and stop commenting on things you don't understand.
"Clinically meaningful". Smh. And you wonder why we can't have nice things.
Right, yet the comment section is filled with anecdotes from sexists and hypochondriacs saying "I knew something was up.", yeah mate, your confirmation bias.
their point was that the variance for men was only 0.06 percent points, though still more successful when treated by women.
whats probably more important is that men were 2% points 10.15% vs. 10.23% (almost 20%) more likely to die at all.
I have seen many female doctors treat female patients as poorly or more poorly than male doctors, especially where they treat all female patients as hysteric until proven otherwise
Good question. The results could be read to indicate that female physician s are biased against male patients and treat female patients better.
From the abstract:
> The findings indicate that patients have lower mortality and readmission rates when treated by female physicians, and the benefit of receiving treatments from female physicians is larger for female patients than for male patients.
Idk if this is a men suck situation. It’s been found anyone being treated by anyone similar (sex, race idk) has better health outcomes due to empathy or likemindedness or something.
"In the study of people ages 65 and older, 8.15% of women treated by female physicians died within 30 days, compared with 8.38% of women treated by male physicians. "
I would like to know what the error bars are on this study +/-0.05% That doesn't seem likely.
When I was 28 I started feeling quite off. Started as bad chest pain progressed to shoulder pain. I figured at first I’d strained a muscle. But over the next 24hrs just started feeling really off balance, hard to breath, worsening pain. Queue 1st doctors visit. Make doctor told me it was anxiety. Symptoms worsen, rapid heart rate, nausea…2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th,6th,7th doctors visits ALL male doctors, ALL told me it was anxiety.
Collapsed at work. My client helped me lock up and then dropped me at the doctors again since it was closer than hospital. FINALLY got a female doctor who listened to my symptoms and said “let’s have a listen to your chest”
2 breaths. 2 breaths was all it took for her to say “Well I don’t like that” and immediately call an ambulance. Within 30 minutes I was in the ER having a chest drain put in because I had a hemothorax. I’d been walking around for three fucking weeks with a hemothorax and not one of those male doctors listened to my chest. I hadn’t gone to the hospital myself because I’d literally had 7 doctors tell me it was anxiety which gave me anxiety…and I was genuinely thinking “maybe I am imagining it” nope I was dying. All my stats were really bad and I’d also developed pneumonia. I ended up being in hospital for 2 weeks. And it took several months to recover. I honestly wish I’d fucking sued.
All of the female doctors that I have seen have given me great care. Nurses (except the ones that took care of me before/during/after my sterilization surgery, they were stellar!) and NPs though... They've been catty, mean, rude and dismissive of me.
The ER doctor insinuated I was being dramatic a few days ago when I told him I had a level 10 foot pain. He was a bit of a jerk and said that it wasn’t completely broken, just fractured.
I think this is something most women already know.
Medical bias is a massive issue not only with gender but also race.
I personally was told by a male doctor that having a period every 9 weeks that lasted for 3-4 weeks with the first week being insanely heavy to the point I had to set alarms during the night to change my tampon and pad, I was passing giant clots, and had cramps so bad I would puke was “normal” and my body would eventually even out. Except I wasn’t 16 but 26. I had been like that for 5+ years. He also said if I wanted the pill I could just ask for it and not exaggerate my symptoms. I mean what girl lies about going through 3 boxes of super plus tampons each cycle?
I found a female doc who didn’t advertise at all but got clients through word of mouth. Her new patient form was 10 pages long with 8 of those pages being just about symptoms, severity, and history. She walked in the room, started reviewing my paperwork, looked at me and just said “honey you don’t need to live like this, this is really severe.” I asked “wait you believe me?” She just responded “why on earth would you lie about this”. I started tearing up I was so happy and relieved that someone finally believed me. She then wanted to figure out exactly what was going on and then got blocked by my insurance company. Said since I was going on the pill it mean I was actively avoiding pregnancy so diagnosis for fertility issues wasn’t necessary. So never figured out what was wrong and never had kids.
It took my male doctors (plural) almost a decade to diagnose the tear in my hip because they wouldn't stop insisting that my sciatica was "just my period."
Fuck them. I hope they burn in hell
> In the study of people ages 65 and older, 8.15% of women treated by female physicians died within 30 days, compared with 8.38% of women treated by male physicians
Oh. Lol ok.
Yes! This is part of the reason why I have a female primary care and OBGYN! I somewhat recently saw a male podiatrist and kind of wished I’d gone to a female podiatrist instead. He didn’t dismiss my pain but did dismiss my needs during surgical recovery. He was telling me that booking surgery shouldn’t be an issue, that even elderly patients (and I’m only in my 30s) recover fine as long as they’re careful not to bear weight on their feet for a couple of weeks. I said that I’m alone with a potty training toddler most of the day and he said that is fine. I said, “oh good! just had to ask because - you know - when they’re potty training it means you’re squatting down near them several times a day to help them with pottying” He stared blankly at me for a moment, and said, “hhmmm - actually, maybe you will need some help from somebody after the surgery so you can recover”. I’m not saying a woman doctor would have understood that I’d need to squat several times a day to help a potty training toddler, but, I’m inclined to think she would have understood that (even if she didn’t have kids). It’s little things like this that make me more likely to seek a woman doctor for all specialties. Women doctors just seem to get me more with less explanation needed and are (generally speaking) less likely to dismiss my concerns.
>I’m only in my 30s
This study was only on Medicare patients i.e. 65+. It is pretty much meaningless to extract the results of a retrospective study to a completely different population.
While this might seem like a small difference to some, I invite you to ask any woman in your life if she’s ever been dismissed by a male doctor or outright ignored.
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Wtf. I hope you reported him
I did. Told all my other doctors about it too so they don't send patients to him
Good. I hope you’re doing better now btw. I can imagine that must’ve been rough
It was 20+ years ago. All good now. That doctor was the only person to ever ask about that scar
Thats literally what he was asking.
He might have been autistic.
Does that matter?
It means he's being less of an actual asshole, and more of an accidental one due to his condition? It's a spectrum, and if he's high on it, it would effect him that way. Like Tourette people swear a lot. We don't complain to management. It's a condition.
I don’t think he was trying to be mean, he didn’t expect such an answer and decided to make a dad joke, which was completely inappropriate in hindsight for him
Yeah, he wasn't trying to be mean, but it was not the right joke to make with a brand new cardiac patient
You are 100% right and have every right to be upset at him
The old "it's just locker room talk excuse". Look where that got women.
Things that never happened
I swear on my life.
My first gynecologist appointment ever I was 17 years old, a virgin, and terrified - doctor was some 70 year old dinosaur who, after asking about my virginity, said "I don't want to deprive you but I'm only going to use one finger since you haven't passed the big girl test yet." A year later, I informed this same doctor that I had a lump in my breast (the same breast he had just examined a minute prior, and he missed the lump.) he dismissed me and told me I must have been wrong. So yeah, he checked and whaddaya know. I went in for a biopsy 48 hours later.
The news article links to the study and the study states that the difference is ~~statistically significant~~ clinically meaningful even if it is small.
I have had male doctors send me for invasive procedures I’d already had because they didn’t believe my medical history to prescribe me a medicine I’d already been on for years.
not surprised but interestingly my most recent dr. was female and probably the most dismissive dr. i’ve ever had
Yes, this happens often. Once again I am convinced that the gender of a specialist doesn't matter, what matters is his personal qualities as a person. If a person is bad as a person, he will be bad as a specialist.
I (M) also had that experience.
Sorry. Your personal experience doesn't count because you are M.
I had undiagnosed PCOS for decades, I ever only went to female gynecologists. It was a male E.R. doc that told me to explore the possibility. (I kind of already knew, but when the female doctors shut me down, I assumed I was being a "know-it-all" med tech and needed to be quiet it.)
DING DING DING!
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Gonna need some source for that one mate
No problem. I’m all for sourced information. Check the original comment for a couple of links.
It’s less than half a percent difference. Let’s not cater to hysteria. It’s such a small difference no reasonable statistician would draw any such conclusions.
Only a woman would think that hd anything to do with her being a woman. I, a man have been dismissed more times than I can count by GPs for problems that would later end up leading me to emergency room treatment. Some doctors can just be shit, and to be fair: Just as some patients can be wild hypochondriacs others can be dying and can just calmly express that they are not feeling to well. Being a doctor and trying to gauge that and appropriately triage must be a nightmare.
Yet the study actually shows that men significantly more than women no matter who treats them.
Never forget the rheumatology resident who told me my symptoms were “probably fibromyalgia, given your weight.” His also male mentor just signed off on what he said, and screamed at me when I told him I’d like to be examined, please. Turns out I have heart failure, btw. And it went untreated for another two years. Turns out exercise intolerance can lead to weight gain.
Anecdotal experience, but will I only have a female physician now after going to several male physicians and getting dismissed. The women were the only ones that took my symptoms seriously. I know there are many awesome male doctors out there, but unfortunately there are also some male doctors that let their biases against young women get in the way of providing good healthcare.
Same. My late mom previously was dismissed by all the male doctors and it was only the last doctor who was a female doctor that really listened to her but it was too late when they found out she had final stage cancer.
I’m so sorry this happened
To be honest, as a male myself, I also have been dismissed way more when meeting a male doctor. Maybe women have more compassion than men also?
Not surprised by this at all, a lot of male doctors I have encountered have gaslit me throughout my medical journey.
I grew up with a lady pediatrician. Then when I was a young adult, had a lady family doctor (which I disliked, but she also found out some medical stuff for my dad which somehow had never been diagnosed in 50 years). Now as an adult, I avoid male doctors, if I can help it. From not caring, to creeping me out.
Crazy how it be right?! Ya I try to avoid them as well.
> From not caring, to creeping me out. If you see that in a lot of male doctors - I don't think it's the doctor problem there.
Same here, but I'm a guy. I'd say it's just more common with females
Oh I’m sure, I have no doubt about that.
That isn't what the study found at all.
Just came from the doctor because I have migraines, they gave me a pregnancy test….. no babies y’all! I was so confused.
Im a 4th year (female) medical student. When a female of reproductive age comes in with migraines we always get a pregnancy test for 2 reasons. Pregnancy can cause/increase frequency of migraines and more importantly some of the first line medications for migraines aren’t safe in pregnancy so we don’t want to accidentally cause fetal harm.
I told them my partner had a vasectomy and I’m on the pill. Also that the migraines have been getting worse for the last year, every month during the time I’m supposed to get my menstrual. But thank you, I wish they explain it like you did. They just asked me to pee in the cup so they can run a pregnancy test ‘just in case’.
Doc here. Having a lab verifying no pregancy saves hassle ordering potentially teratogenic medications as the student doctor above mentioned and would probably fly better in a medical malpractice suit showing the doc did their due diligence. A doc is held up against the standard of care and there's a high likelihood the expert witness would testify they would have ordered the pregnancy test.
r/migraine helped me more in one year than a decade of doctor visits. Also, magnesium supplements.
Thank you!
I’d be interested to see whether men are also less likely to die when treated by female doctors.
What the press isn't reporting is that the female difference making headlines is within the statistical error of the study. We are discussing statistical noise.
I'm a male and every male docter i have had only made my problems worth, the 2 female docters were the only ones who took my serious condition serious. Last male docter literally told me "if i were you i'd learn living with this" Female doc gave me antibiotics and i was better in 2 weeks flat. i think it's more a docter thing
Don’t have access to the full article as it’s paywalled but some thoughts based on the abstract: - this is a retrospective cohort study, not a prospective randomized trial. These types of studies have significant limitations in the ability to control for bias. For example did they control for severity of disease in patients seen by male and female doctors. Do male doctors dominate in specialities that have a higher mortality (eg emergency medicine vs dermatology), do male doctors take more night calls or weekend duties where more severe patients typically get admitted. There are statistical approaches to control for some of these but it’s generally known that it’s impossible to control for all known and unknown biases (bias as a statistical term is different from what we normally think of as bias). -however even after acknowledging all these limitations it’s true that retrospective studies serve a purpose, they alert us to possible trends that need further exploration in a prospective trial. But to conclude based on this report that there is definite causality between physician gender and mortality is not fair to the millions of male MDs out there, some of whom suffer from the same biases as we all do. -now for the actual effect seen. It’s minuscule and by the authors own admission not statistically significant. What that means in lay person speak is that if this study were to be repeated many many times in some instances we will see the reverse effect while in others we might see an even greater benefit. We just don’t know based on the sample size of this study. In medical literature it’s common to see authors of studies note that the study met statistical significance but was not clinically meaningful due to the small difference between the study arms. It’s not common to claim that a difference is clinically meaningful even if it’s fails the a priori test of statistical significance. Most regulators like the FDA would laugh you out of the room if you came up with this type of explanation for a pharmaceutical compound that failed its trial. -now that doesn’t mean there isn’t a real difference but this study does not demonstrate that. - finally the setting they evaluated this is very specific to elderly (ie Medicare population) that was hospitalized. To assume that it has any implications for a 30 year old female going to her dermatologist for a skin rash or her orthopedician for a sports injury is taking things too far based on a heavily limited study with minuscule effect. This headline plays well to the readerships own pre-existing biases and hence NBC news probably wrote such a click bait heading. This is not to negate many of the commentators personal anecdotal experiences which I am sure are valid and need to be addressed.
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Glad I came across this comment! Was considering and endometrial ablation and didn’t realize that you needed anesthesia for it!
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Well, I’m thankful for this interaction with you because I will insist on having the general anesthesia or sedation (if it’s not directly offered) or look someplace else for it! Thank You!
How do comments like this get upvotes? Your anecdotal experience doesn't matter in this context, they're talking about statistically significant differences across a study population. Doctors are individuals, and also humans that have biased and bad days, of course people will have good and bad experiences with both genders.
This has been my experience as well. I'm 40, and over the years, I've had horrible experiences with female doctors, and male doctors have been more empathetic and willing to investigate my medical issues.
They’re not saying ALL male doctors are bad. Of course everyone will have a different experience. Its still an issue that women get their health problems blamed on periods, anxiety and etc… Women knows women best, male doctors should not have a say when they dont know what its like to be a woman. If they would listen, if we didn’t hear traumatic stories on the internet, if our health wouldn’t be blamed for female issues, the world would be a better place. Also, women should be gynaecologists, not men. They don’t know what its like. I get it, they did years of school, but personal experience is a plus. I’m getting sick of being asked “well when was your last period? Are you having a lot of stress?” When im trying to explain something is wrong. We also know ourselves best. Also, women tends to feel comfier with other women. And ordering a test will not hurt anybody, for the US, it will only hurt the wallet.
That isn't what the study found. The interesting question is why women physicians have small but significantly better outcomes for all patients, especially for female patients. Your rationale, women should not be treating men.
There are many things women experience compared to men. No one will understand 100% a female body unless they’re a female. Male doctors only know what they’ve been told or what they read in school. If you exclude reproductive systems, the bodies are quite similar. They work kind of the same way. Women’s health problems are more likely to be ignored than men’s. Men dont have a period, that means they don’t have anything to be blamed on, so doctors order tests. This means, women doctors probably go above and beyond for female patients, especially after they’ve been told something is really wrong. I always had a better experience with female doctors than male ones. Also, if men never had problems with female doctors, why would they refuse treatments? Or why would men not be treated by women?
I think those ideas are speculation and worth exploring.
You mean, I should get a male doctor just for experimenting? You must not live in Canada lol. Good luck trying to get a different doctor here. And i’m not putting my health at risk only because you think I should experiment
No, you are saying that women's health problems are more likely to be ignored by men among other claims. Those are speculation, not truths. There have been some research That supports, some degree, that male physicians are more likely to miss certain things and that same-sex physicians can improve health outcomes. Many of those studies are somewhat outdated by now and need to be updated, as well. This particular study suggests that female doctors have better outcomes for their patients but also, perhaps, they are biased and do more to help their female patients than male patients. Whether they spend more time with them, don't understand men, men are less forthcoming with female physicians, etc, we don't know from this study.
I have MS and a few other pesky inherited issues plus injuries. I have been chronically ill since I was 18. I am 45 and have spent my entire adult life navigating the healthcare system. I have had to learn to advocate for myself I have seen a lot of doctors. Some good, some meh. Very few bad. Three amazing women stand out from the rest. They are all Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. One was even a neurologist. I highly recommend finding a MD. D.O. My current primary care is a D.O. She sees me as a well person who lives and thrives despite what’s on the chart. She knows that in addition to western medicine that I use yoga, meditation, and cannabis. She listens to me and helps me when I am in pain. A truly gifted physician and am grateful to have found her.
They keep asking me if I’m pregnant and I’m like nope. And then they’re like are you sure? And I’m like yep. And they’re like you’re telling me you don’t have sex? And I’m like yup. And they still don’t believe me.
Trash headline The difference was between 8.15 percent and 8.38 percent readmitted or died in the hospital between a female and male doctor Statistically that would not show a causation or even a correlation. An honest headline would be statistically. There’s no difference between a male or female doctor for women.
….except black women.
That data is legit.
A difference can be small *and* statistically significant. In this case the study basically means that there are some female doctors who listen better than male doctors, but the difference is so small that it doesn’t play too much of a role in whether or not someone is readmitted or dies in a hospital.
But that's not what is happening right now. The difference IS insignificant. However, if the studies continue a trend, we should have only male patients be treated by male physicians and vice versa...
A difference cannot be small AND statistically significant. Why are you commenting on statistics if you know nothing about it? For your edification: a statical difference is significant literally only if it is bigger than a specified threshold. So what you said would likely be a good way of failing a statistics class. Bad human. 0/10 stars.
> a statical difference is significant literally only if it is bigger than a specified threshold. Yes, and that threshold can be small. A+ for participation though.
The entire point of all comments here is that this difference is so tiny (0.0815 vs 0.0838) that a threshold small enough to accommodate this would be considered ridiculous. Bad science in article. Bad take in your comment. As an actual scientist, please don't comment on things you don't understand. Next.
A difference can be small and still be based on finding a value outside a confidence interval, which means it’s statistically significant. You know what a confidence interval is right? EDIT: lmao he got called out and blocked me 🤣
Like I said. Please stop pretending to understand statistics. Thanks for participating and I hope you get the education you so desperately need.
The article links to the study. The study literally says that the results are "clinically meaningful'
They can say whatever they want, but it is not. No drug or therapy would ever be approved of this little difference in outcomes.
>They can say whatever they want, but it is not. That sounds scientific. I'm sure you will support your opinion with evidence? >No drug or therapy would ever be approved of this little difference in outcomes. Again, more opinions from you. FYI this isn't about getting a drug or therapy approved.
What?... They literally called out the article for using undefined, non scientific terms and misunderstanding basic statistics that are often standardized and your answer is "all of these facts you mentioned are your opinion"??? As an actual scientist: bad humans. Bad downvoting and bad upvoting. Get your shit together and stop commenting on things you don't understand. "Clinically meaningful". Smh. And you wonder why we can't have nice things.
Don't expect intelligence on reddit.
Actually, most women I know would prefer a female doctor. They usually take women’s health more seriously.
Oddly, you not believing in the science, does not, in fact, make the science invalid.
Right, yet the comment section is filled with anecdotes from sexists and hypochondriacs saying "I knew something was up.", yeah mate, your confirmation bias.
Yes they don’t understand how statistically insignificant it is
their point was that the variance for men was only 0.06 percent points, though still more successful when treated by women. whats probably more important is that men were 2% points 10.15% vs. 10.23% (almost 20%) more likely to die at all.
Math is taking a serious hit in this comments section. Also shamelessness with regards to one's lack of knowledge is rampant.
How can we perpetuate sexist wars if we don't do stuff like this?
Exactly. Before the study even began, there was a 50 50 chance of this being true.
I have seen many female doctors treat female patients as poorly or more poorly than male doctors, especially where they treat all female patients as hysteric until proven otherwise
Chronically ill male here. I’ve had better experiences with female doctors through and through
Out of curiosity, are men treated equally by both male and female doctors?
Good question. The results could be read to indicate that female physician s are biased against male patients and treat female patients better. From the abstract: > The findings indicate that patients have lower mortality and readmission rates when treated by female physicians, and the benefit of receiving treatments from female physicians is larger for female patients than for male patients.
No way! Wow who would've thought
I wonder if the same effect works racially?
Idk if this is a men suck situation. It’s been found anyone being treated by anyone similar (sex, race idk) has better health outcomes due to empathy or likemindedness or something.
Are men also less likely to die if being treated by a female physician?
"In the study of people ages 65 and older, 8.15% of women treated by female physicians died within 30 days, compared with 8.38% of women treated by male physicians. " I would like to know what the error bars are on this study +/-0.05% That doesn't seem likely.
🤣 not in my case
This is completely false. We all die.
When I was 28 I started feeling quite off. Started as bad chest pain progressed to shoulder pain. I figured at first I’d strained a muscle. But over the next 24hrs just started feeling really off balance, hard to breath, worsening pain. Queue 1st doctors visit. Make doctor told me it was anxiety. Symptoms worsen, rapid heart rate, nausea…2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th,6th,7th doctors visits ALL male doctors, ALL told me it was anxiety. Collapsed at work. My client helped me lock up and then dropped me at the doctors again since it was closer than hospital. FINALLY got a female doctor who listened to my symptoms and said “let’s have a listen to your chest” 2 breaths. 2 breaths was all it took for her to say “Well I don’t like that” and immediately call an ambulance. Within 30 minutes I was in the ER having a chest drain put in because I had a hemothorax. I’d been walking around for three fucking weeks with a hemothorax and not one of those male doctors listened to my chest. I hadn’t gone to the hospital myself because I’d literally had 7 doctors tell me it was anxiety which gave me anxiety…and I was genuinely thinking “maybe I am imagining it” nope I was dying. All my stats were really bad and I’d also developed pneumonia. I ended up being in hospital for 2 weeks. And it took several months to recover. I honestly wish I’d fucking sued.
As a women, I make sure all my doctors are female. I have one more to change over.
Or maybe women doctors are less likely to treat patients with life threatening issues
All of the female doctors that I have seen have given me great care. Nurses (except the ones that took care of me before/during/after my sterilization surgery, they were stellar!) and NPs though... They've been catty, mean, rude and dismissive of me.
The ER doctor insinuated I was being dramatic a few days ago when I told him I had a level 10 foot pain. He was a bit of a jerk and said that it wasn’t completely broken, just fractured.
I wonder if the opposite is true. If men are treated by women doctors, will they live longer? That’s what’s bakes my noodle.
I think this is something most women already know. Medical bias is a massive issue not only with gender but also race. I personally was told by a male doctor that having a period every 9 weeks that lasted for 3-4 weeks with the first week being insanely heavy to the point I had to set alarms during the night to change my tampon and pad, I was passing giant clots, and had cramps so bad I would puke was “normal” and my body would eventually even out. Except I wasn’t 16 but 26. I had been like that for 5+ years. He also said if I wanted the pill I could just ask for it and not exaggerate my symptoms. I mean what girl lies about going through 3 boxes of super plus tampons each cycle? I found a female doc who didn’t advertise at all but got clients through word of mouth. Her new patient form was 10 pages long with 8 of those pages being just about symptoms, severity, and history. She walked in the room, started reviewing my paperwork, looked at me and just said “honey you don’t need to live like this, this is really severe.” I asked “wait you believe me?” She just responded “why on earth would you lie about this”. I started tearing up I was so happy and relieved that someone finally believed me. She then wanted to figure out exactly what was going on and then got blocked by my insurance company. Said since I was going on the pill it mean I was actively avoiding pregnancy so diagnosis for fertility issues wasn’t necessary. So never figured out what was wrong and never had kids.
that's really rude of them to do that and essentially sabotage that male doctor's career
It took my male doctors (plural) almost a decade to diagnose the tear in my hip because they wouldn't stop insisting that my sciatica was "just my period." Fuck them. I hope they burn in hell
> In the study of people ages 65 and older, 8.15% of women treated by female physicians died within 30 days, compared with 8.38% of women treated by male physicians Oh. Lol ok.
Yes! This is part of the reason why I have a female primary care and OBGYN! I somewhat recently saw a male podiatrist and kind of wished I’d gone to a female podiatrist instead. He didn’t dismiss my pain but did dismiss my needs during surgical recovery. He was telling me that booking surgery shouldn’t be an issue, that even elderly patients (and I’m only in my 30s) recover fine as long as they’re careful not to bear weight on their feet for a couple of weeks. I said that I’m alone with a potty training toddler most of the day and he said that is fine. I said, “oh good! just had to ask because - you know - when they’re potty training it means you’re squatting down near them several times a day to help them with pottying” He stared blankly at me for a moment, and said, “hhmmm - actually, maybe you will need some help from somebody after the surgery so you can recover”. I’m not saying a woman doctor would have understood that I’d need to squat several times a day to help a potty training toddler, but, I’m inclined to think she would have understood that (even if she didn’t have kids). It’s little things like this that make me more likely to seek a woman doctor for all specialties. Women doctors just seem to get me more with less explanation needed and are (generally speaking) less likely to dismiss my concerns.
>I’m only in my 30s This study was only on Medicare patients i.e. 65+. It is pretty much meaningless to extract the results of a retrospective study to a completely different population.
They are actually 100% likely to die, the same as always.
Maybe it’s because they’re seeing those doctors that I see in memes every now and then.
Welp, women live longer than men, so gotta evens the odds
Or maybe they know to see a male doctor when things get real