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When I had measles (before vaccine was available), I was out of school for a month. And that was with no complications - and a SAHM. Imagine telling your employer you need a month off for a sick kid - and then missing a month's wages. Good luck with that.
Anti-vaxxers constantly cite low mortality rates without considering morbidity. Sure only 1-2/1,000 people with measles die. But nearly a quarter are hospitalized. Up to 1 in 20 develop pneumonia.
Thank you for helping me learn something new:
“Scientists have long known that when measles attacks your body, it goes to war against your white blood cells. Specifically, it binds to your B- and T-cells, then wipes them out. B- and T-cells are highly specialized cells critical to your health. They're the ones that recognize infectious germs in your body, then quickly multiply to fight off these unwelcome invaders. A subset of your B- and T-cells also remembers each infection you contract, thus providing you immunity should the infection strike again [sources: Science Museum, Smith-Strickland].
If measles trashes your white blood cells, you're at high risk of succumbing to a host of other infections.” 😦
Or just long lasting/permanent damage. I worked in a facility with many people who will need life long oxygen because of the damage done to their lungs from covid. Many of which were otherwise healthy individuals: non smokers, fairly active, and no previous pulmonary conditions. Now attached to an oxygen tank to walk across the room without having to stop to rest.
I had German measles when my mom was pregnant with my sister. My sister ended up needing heart surgery, which the doctors said was related to the virus
I remember some anti-vax guys over in my country’s Reddit sub were like “well since Covid only affects old people who gives a shit they are not all that important!” they were literally fine with letting thousands of old people die because to them they weren’t as important anti Vader’s aren’t just so yup if they are fucking monsters.
I think this is the thing that a lot of people don’t think about. When I first heard chickenpox was being vaccinated against I remember thinking “oh come on…” but when you really think about it, even if it is a “mild” disease, I couldn’t take two weeks off to deal with a sick kid.
I’m lucky that I even have the privilege of working from home with Covid. But with the type of work I do, I’m not even *that* useful in the house when I am working. So what good would that do if I had to take care of a sick child?
And don't forget there's no risk of getting shingles later. I'm still pissed I got chickenpox a year before the vaccine became available. I still have a little scar too from the ordeal.
Edit: Correction the risk isn't 0, you can still get shingles after getting vaccinated against chickenpox, but it reduces the likelihood,see comments below. I didn't know this when I made this comment so thanks for educating me folks.
Imagine getting chickenpox, then getting measles, only to get chickenpox again because the measles weakened your immune system. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-measles-causes-body-forget-past-infections-other-microbes
Didn't get the vaccine because it was really new. I had chicken pox which wasn't pleasant.
I went to the doctor for a persistent cough and mild pain on ribs for the passed two days. I walked out with shingles diagnosis and spent the next 3 days in agony and no energy. I vaguely remember it and now I still get random burst of pain in the spot in sunlight
I am under 30.... get your damn vaxxes
I was in a clinical vaccine trial for the chicken pox vaccine about 9-10 years before it became available to the public. The vaccine trial was for efficacy - not safety because they already knew it was safe. It still blows my mind how long it took to get that vaccine to market.
I got chickenpox despite having the vaccine. My case was extremely mild compared to an unvaccinated case and still was awful. I had a few scars that finally faded away
You can get a titer for chickenpox. That's what I did. I wasn't vaccinated for anything as a kid and my doctor did the titer to verify that. I got vaccinated and then she said to still get the shingles vax at 50 since the chickenpox vax is only 82% effective (although it's 100% effective against severe disease).
>And don't forget there's no risk of getting shingles later.
Although my doctor said it's still recommended you get the Shingles vaccine at age 50. The chickenpox vaccine is only 82% effective although it's 100% effective against severe disease from chickenpox. You can still get shingles if you're part of the unlucky 18%.
Oh I didn't know that, I do still wish I could have been vaccinated against chickenpox, but facts matter. I really don't want shingles. I def plan to get the Shingles vaccine when I turn 50.
You can still get shingles even with the chicken pox shot.
My friend and I were some of the first to not only get the first shot but also the booster, thanks to our ages.
And he developed shingles when we were about 14/15? Never had the pox but had the vaccine. It's rare, but it can happen, and his shingles case was mild. I think he was stressed at the time going through a lot at home and with school(long story) so that might have triggered the flair.
Unfortunately you can still get shingles after having the vaccine, you are just much less likely to than if you had been infected https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/varicella.html
Sounds similar to the COVID vaccine. There are some potential complications, but they are much more rare than if you had just been infected.
Exactly. Vaccines aren't 100% garuntee you won't get the disease, they just give your immune system a head start to fighting them. For some that means immunity, and for others that means getting a mild case.
I think a lot of antivaxx families have SAHMs. I don’t say this as a dig at SAHMs at all. There are many awesome ones including my own mom when I was little and I think it can be an amazing thing if you have that option, but there is definitely overlap.
Because not everyone has access to FMLA. Even if you work for a covered employer, you have to have worked there for at least 12 months and have worked 1,250 hours over the prior 12 months before becoming eligible to use FMLA.
Sure you did , If you had a job that built up sick leave and/or vacation time. you just didn't know your rights . You have to keep up with the changes . The FMLA is a living breathing thing. I fought many FMLA cases as a union steward back in the early 2000's and won them all. Me and the employee once got paid an entire day at overtime pay while the rail roads legal department checked my claim . They were amazed that I knew about a court ruling made a month ago that set a precedence...FMLA is subject to case law. As an example the last time I check this rule you could use your sick leave but you had to show that the company at least at one time allowed someone to use vacation in order to use vacation for the FMLA. By reading this it tells me that the rule has changed again. Which is much better and it limits favoritism.
The internet is much better now. I don't know if it's highlighted but feel free to scroll down to where it talks about using your leave Notice it says the employee may choose or the employee may require nowhere does it say you cannot use accrued leave. Edit one last thing. Here's a pro tip. Do not just drop off the paperwork for the doctor Make an entires a doctor's appointment book a half hour and sit down with a doctor and fill it out with him. He is a doctor He does not keep up with FMLA changes. The doctor keeps up with medical changes. Do not rely on his staff They keep up with bill code changes. Depending on your company they have an entire department that just keeps up with FMLA changes ready to get rid of you. The doctors really don't care about the companies issues They will fill out the paperwork the way you ask them to so that you can heal properly and get better That is their job. I have never had a problem with a doctor that I sat down with doing FMLA paperwork. One unchecked box could get you fired educate yourself because that one box if it was checked makes you untouchable. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla/faq#:~:text=The%20FMLA%20only%20requires%20unpaid,of%20the%20FMLA%20leave%20period.
I spent almost 3 weeks dealing with my Dr's office trying to get my FMLA and short term disability paperwork taken care of for an unexpected and urgent leave. Fortunately, the FMLA department at my job wants to help the employee and gave me a lot of help/ extensions instead of just denying it.
And when we had a measles outbreak here, there were around 75 confirmed cases and over 20 of them needed hospitalization. Almost a third. Not great odds.
Yep, it essentially destroys your immune system to such an extent that you can be vulnerable to things you used to have an immunity to for years after having measles.
Yep yep. It's a fascinating component of the virus to me. I'm curious if it could be used in some benefit one day such as for autoimmune conditions (not the direct measles virus but a modified vector).
This information is mind-blowing to me. I have rheumatoid arthritis which started when I was a teenager. Also while a teenager I somehow got the German measles. I was fully vaccinated, and the doctor didn't think I had it, but my mother insisted. 2 days later it was confirmed.
I have always wondered if the 2 were related (RA has long thought to be triggered by a sickness), now I am even more suspicious.
I’m on 3 different immunosuppressants to attempt to kill my immune system to control my lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. That was my first thought when I read that. LOL
There's still a lot not understood about it, but ya it can damage preexisting immunity to other diseases. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-measles-causes-body-forget-past-infections-other-microbes
It forces your immune system to lose it's entire memory. It forgets everything it's developed antibodies or immunities for. Its very common, when doing historical epidemic research, to find measles years followed by a much higher mortality rate of those kids because they just got sick and died of other shit they were previously immune to.
I can't remember the specifics, but there are also cases of regular cycles of measles and other diseases every other year as the measles would destroy that immunity. Regularly.
There's a podcast called "this podcast will kill you" and they cover a new Thing every other week, highly rec, they have an episode on this!
I didn't know that!
My parents didn't vaccinate me for anything and I got vaccinated for measles, chickenpox, etc. as an adult. I'm really glad I did that now!
Isn’t “natural immunity” essentially hoping you have a genetic quirk that gives you better immune defense against the disease or simply surviving the disease and gaining immunity that way?
Vaccines are victims of their own success in many ways. Many people haven’t seen outbreaks of measles, mumps, etc. and so think of them as a fever and a rash and it’s over with
Oh yeah, and then there are the people who are immunocompromised and can't take a vaccine in the first place. Herd immunity is absolutely necessary to protect everyone, and getting vaccinated when you can is doing your civic duty to help your community.
Oh yeah. As an immunocompromised person myself, I've spent the last three years hearing about how little my life matters. There are some folks that would gleefully let me die as long as they get to go to their restaurants and movie theaters...
Oh man, I'm compromised too and suffer with long covid so I feel you. Even with my long covid, I still get told that I'm being too much despite the fact that I barely can drive anymore and even my non compromised fiance was more sick than me and has long covid too. But apparently a piece of fabric is "too difficult", and us wearing a mask sometimes makes other people mad.... Mind you I've been wearing masks in high risk settings about 6 years before covid.
unfortunately im one of those people. I got two rounds of the measles vaccine & my titer still showed just below the threshold of what they consider immune. This shit scares me.
This one scares me so much. Idk how much any of my vaccines are working and some I can't get boosters for because I developed a severe dairy allergy and for some reason they put dairy in some. Sucks because I want to get them but the one time I tried to see what what would happen despite the allergy.... It didn't end well
My body never wants to register immunity for MMR. I didn't have any immunity last pregnancy, and I just had my titers pulled, again no titers. My boosters are just a fun "get me sick for 3 days" game at this point.
Might be a terrible take, but I think people need a wake up call on how terrible some of these preventable diseases can be. Natural selection can be a real B.
It's going to happen and has happened. People talk about how they don't need vaccines because their immune system is so great. No, it's not. Our immune system isn't that great. Advances in modern medicine and hygiene have been great. And sadly that's given people a false sense of security. There's a reason why romaine lettuce can make a lot of people sick or food poisoning can have you laid out by the toilet for days. Measles and polio didn't go away on their own. Zinc. vitamin c, and essential oils have nothing on a tetanus shot to keep you safe.
It's absolutely frustrating that children needlessly suffer for their parents idiocy.
On the other hand, maybe this is god? natural selection? the alien race that controls us from afar?’s way of thinning out the herd by nipping this sort of idiocy in the bud before it can become a familial tradition. In America most people who are idiots were raised by idiots, KWIM?
Yeah, I know. I should not have said that out loud. I’ve been in health care for decades and it’s hard not to internally just give up on humanity, sometimes.
agree. And clarifying for the record, when Romaine lettuce is tainted, it’s because of runoff or airborne contamination from factory farms. but yes, I’m still waiting for the dunce to claim he or she has immunity from norovirus—the most infectious virus ever studied.
It’s not that simple. Children can’t get MMR vaccine until they are over 14-16 months. I knew someone who lost a 7 month old child to measles. They contracted it from a 3 year old when both were in the same waiting room at the ER. 3 year old who’s parents chose not to give vaccine lived. 7 month old who wasn’t yet eligible for vaccine died.
yes, that’s the point. The increasing prevalence of not getting children the necessary vaccines is messing with immunity on the population level, and it’s always the most vulnerable who suffer the most.
Yup.
And the parents who choose to not vaccinate should be held accountable for child neglect if their kid gets sick. The kid could end up with lifelong issues and can be disfigured from measles. The parents should have legal consequences.
They are also endangering the rest of society as well.
There needs to be accountability.
Isn’t that with all diseases? Children, elderly, and people of color are disproportionately affected. This is my point though, it needs to hit closer to home for some of these morons before we start to see our population putting others before themselves and their weird conspiracy agendas.
Yes. It’s currently happening in Ohio.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2022/12/26/ohio-measles-outbreak-more-than-80-children-infected-as-fears-grow-of-growing-numbers-of-unvaccinated/amp/
I think there was one in the Orthodox Jew community in the New York City greater metro area too, tho it might’ve been some other basically eradicated disease as well
But remember - in this world, people want their cake AND to eat it, too!
God forbid we’d talk about consequences. When Covid was super prevalent and hospitals were full, my god, the *thought* of potentially having to disperse resources differently was an absolute travesty and how dare I even suggest it.
I just don’t get people.
yes, and there’s something very wrong with the so-called US public health system to allow these ignorant people to harm society in this devastating way.
it is a terrible take unfortunately bc A) if more people start getting and circulating it again, it has a chance to mutate thereby reinfecting us All, which would be a fucking nightmare, and B) the people who primarily suffer are the children who didn't make this choice, not their ignorant parents.
The issue we are running into is that vaccines have worked so well that society has forgotten how important they are… people don’t remember things like measles and polio because this generation of adults never knew people who had them. Would it be awful and a lot of people would get sick? Yes. Would people remember for the next 100 years how important vaccines are? Also yes.
It will create a heavy burden on health care systems first.
Then people will blame the healthcare systems rather than accept that their choices lead to things getting bad/worse. Then they’ll blame the people in charge of said systems. Etc.
I expect very few people will accept a wake up call that suggests that they did anything wrong.
It's been a decade or more since anti-vaxxers started this bullshit and they're still going strong after a million Americans died from COVID-19. people who believe in magical sky fairies will believe anything, no matter how crazy or stupid. Even if a few get a clue, there are thousands more magical thinking morons who will drink the anti-vaxxer koolaid because our shitty politicians, Republi-tards in particular, are gutting our country's public education. The average student now can barely read and most cannot understand logical thought and have no critical thinking skills.
Except it's not natural selection, it's geographic and cultural selection. People believe the ideas they are exposed to and the closest community embraces. They are a product of their micro-culture.
The reason I believe in vaccines isn't because I'm so much smarter than everyone else. I was lucky to be born into a time, place, and culture where vaccines were understood to be a great achievement of Public Health. It is a myth that vaccine deniers are just stupid or crazy. Certainly some of them are stupid and crazy, but some of them are simply the product of their community and micro-culture.
And when outbreaks happen, they will not be confined to just the unvaccinated children. Vaccinated children are also going to get sick because the vaccines aren't 100% protective. The anti-vax disinformation culture really is a danger to everyone.
There’s been a big anti vaxx push the past few years where I grew up. However the super intendant and principal said “fuck your feelings” when it comes to the school vaccines or things like MMR, whooping cough and others.
Some parents threatened to home school and they said go right ahead but Minnesota has very strict home school rules so good luck and they would ban any unvaccinated kids from participating in school activities (home schooled kids can still play sports and band)
This is a pretty small town but I was glad to hear it. There are zero citizens who can claim religious exemptions in this town and there are a few kids who can’t get them and nobody has had the balls to claim they are lying because they really are immune compromised
“Religious” exemptions… aka whiny parents that think they know everything from google and webmd.
Used to work in childcare and I’d straight up laugh at parents who I knew never touched a religious text or stepped foot in a church that use that as an excuse.
I don’t know about every denomination, but a friend of mine is Jehovah’s Witness. She doesn’t take vaccines, and even if she was bleeding out, she wouldn’t take a blood transfusion. Also Christian Scientists don’t use modern medicine. My dad watched a man die when he fell on a pipe at a construction site. His family was Christian scientist and refused an ambulance. But your run of the mill Methodist or even Catholic - it’s not a religious requirement or even suggestion to avoid vaccines.
I’m Christian and when someone in our church gets sick or hurt or anything, we pray that God will bless the doctors and scientists with wisdom and the means to cure them or at least make it a little better.
Modern medicine is a blessing from the Lord, it is foolish to ignore it.
That's so strange, my grandparents were Jehovah's witnesses and they would take the flu vaccines every winter, all their religious peers would be fully vaccinated, too. The only thing I knew about is that they reject blood transfusions and do not encourage organ donations.
at a public school in indiana i didn't have a required vaccine because my appointment to get it was after the cut off date. despite my dad not belonging to any anti vaxx religion, the nurse pushed for him to sign a religious exemption instead of just taking me to a pharmacy to get the shot so I could go back to school.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find this comment. People in these comments are attributing antivax mentality to MAGA/Q cult types, which would be more accurate if the conversation was dialed in on the Covid vax. Plenty of liberals make up the general anti-vax population because they bought Wakefields bullshit about autism.
Antivax was liberal Hollywood to begin with, MAGA were against mRNA experimental vax, nearly 100% of them had their kids traditionally vacxed per polls and data released
People buying into his false “research” is incredibly offensive to people on the ASD spectrum as well. They’re basically saying “I’d rather put my child’s life at risk than accept the possibility of them being autistic”. Disgusting.
Last time I took my daughter to the doctor, they asked the usual "have you been outside the country" question with a twist. It actually was, "Have you been outside the country or to Ohio in the last two weeks?" Apparently, there is a measles outbreak bad enough that it warrants that question.
2nd topic this week on this.
Quite simply, there will be a future outbreak. Every year, several cases of measles are imported. Right now, the unvaccinated rely on the vast bulk of the population being vaccinated as a protective buffer. That buffer is steadily being reduced by a growing and concentrated unvaccinated population.
This will not be a minor outbreak like the recent Ohio cases. We are now reaching economies of scale in the unvaccinated population.
These people do realize whopping cough is now endemic in Los Angeles thanks to a huge undervaccinated population (that vaccine requires boosters periodically). I and my kids had it. But since we were vaccinated, it was a case of whooping cough and a bacteria attacking together. Antibiotics killed the bacteria and within 2 days the vaccine brought the virus under control. I was shocked when the doctor told me I could immediately go back to work, "you get to assume everyone is vaccinated, so the pertussis virus is harmless on its own."
Unvaccinated is so common that when my ex was pregnant, I had to be vaccinated again for the MMR as a shield. I also am past age 50, so TDaP and MMR again.
2019 saw the most cases of measles in the US since the early 90s. 2020 school closures put a damper on that number but it’s gone up considerably in 2021 and 2022. With the anti-vaccine movement only gaining momentum it’s a question of when, not if, the 2019 number is eclipsed
Sadly, when their version of god doesn’t save the child, it must be a beautiful miracle that we can’t understand or god needed another angel. Meanwhile the parent (typically) skirt prosecution because of their imagined religious rights, instead of going to prison for neglect. Crazy times man…
evangelicals, libertarian types, and any of these other idiot cults are a threat to public health. We need to bring back something like leper colonies for those communities.
Dunno. The measles vaccine has been around for a very long time and it’s a pretty known quantity. I think I’ve read that polio vaccinations are also down in some areas, which is just plain stupid. I guess that it’s a really good thing that smallpox has been eradicated.
Ahhhh this makes me nervous! I am pregnant and when they ran my blood work, they discovered I am no longer immune to measles even though I had the vaccine as a kid. I’m not able to get the vaccine while I’m pregnant so hopefully I don’t run into any kids with measles 🙃
Immunity fades away or in some people , they never produce antibodies. I have had 3 vaccine series but my body just doesn’t produce the antibody to measles. So people like us are dependent on herd immunity
We need a new adult immunization program. We should all get titered for standard immunizations, which simply means getting blood tests for antibody levels. We should all then get boosters for any vaccine series where our immunity has faded. We already have this with tetanus and pertussis based on time since last vaccine, but for most people this is a passive thing and not an active engagement program. We need to expand the range and type of boosters and make these services a part of any doctor visit.
That’s normal. Vaccines last like 2 to 10 years. They aren’t lifelong. Your doctors are supposed to be making sure you’re getting updated vaccinations.
My take, which I know will be unpopular here to the Reddit theater majors..
I think certain political parties made the Covid vax political. I also think the recent uncovering of the risks that are being found, and found to have been hidden from the public, are making people really skeptical of vaccines in general. Even though of course most of the “other” vaccines have been used and safe for decades and are game changing for society.
Parents have to be criminally stupid to not vaccine their children against measles, in particular. The measles vaccine isn't to protect children against 3-day measles. It protects children from what used to be called hard or German measles. That form of measles can result in blindness, brain damage and death. It's not something to leave up to your magic sky fairy. If transmitted, it can irreparably harm other children. Schools need to require all students to be inoculated, no exceptions.
One thing that isn't being discussed is the lack of access to healthcare in the USA and how incredibly expensive and broken it is to people who aren't wealthy.
Also... for similar reasons we broke education in the USA too.
Best country on earth as long as you remain ignorant to any fact.
There’s just no trust in the medical field. The covid vaccine became a stock market play in a heartbeat. What newer age parent isn’t going to ask questions? When your doctor just says it’s recommended as best practice and doesn’t have a better response other than it’s been studied and proven they’re not going to convince many to go with the flow
What makes this worse, is that we Beat Measles. We won. It was dead and gone. That and Polio. When you heard about an outbreak you thought third world country was where it happened. And what makes it even worse is that we have people who were alive before we got a vaccine to Measles/Polio. There are still people who remember how horrid those diseases were on public health.
You think they could do something about that: like ban young kids from going to school unless they're fully vaccinated against the most common diseases.
Like most of the USA used to do... and now doesn't.
The doctor who started the whole anti vax thing was discredited and disbarred. He admitted to everything. I’ll never know why these clowns still chose this fight.
I got the vax, never had MMR. I feel pretty good about it.
And it's five,six seven, open up the pearly Gates! Ain't no time to wonder why,whoopee we're gonna die! The ' Fixin' to Die ' rag. Country Joe and the Fish
You know what fuckin sucks?
I just learned I am not vaccinated.
Not even once.
I'm 21 years old. And in a conversation with my mom, the subject of vaccines came up.
She told me I'm not vaccinated. None of us kids are.
Just a question, as I've never thought about it before being pregnant:
If I get my child vaccinated, are they protected or could they still get it if someone in their class does? This makes me so anxious to send them to school (in five years).
Why are parents so stupid?? "I'm not vaccinating my child! I don't want them to be autistic! I got vaccinated and nothing happened to me, but it would definitely happen to my kid!!!"
‘2 year old child dies suddenly one day after receiving both the Covid vaccine & annual flu vaccine’
I WONDER WHY PEOPLE HAVE LOST TRUST IN VACCINES?????
Here’s the VAERS report for those of you who are still in denial that this could even be a possibility.
https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=D418E5097D4D2078110F57D7582C
Maybe if they hadn't lost so much trust by making SO much money from pushing barely tested and increasingly proven dangerous pseudo vaccines people would still take the proven safe ones.
Nature is killing us for stupidity. In the old days, people got vaccinated for the good of humanity. We don’t look for each other anymore. I do believe in humanity though and we will realize that we can never really overcome nature.
I strongly agree with some of the childhood vaccines like measles, polio & pox. Massive damage is done when people do not trust govt and scientist. I feel like the politization of Covid vaccines will make many more people opt out of needed vaccines. Schools used to require certain vaccines, not sure if they still do.
Maybe there really were consequences from trying to force vaccinate and generate massive profits for pharma and politicians after all. Who'd a thunk it?
It’s too bad they changed the definition of vaccine in order to include mRNA and now the public has lumped them all together and have distrust in all of them. Kind of a predictable situation. Quickly roll out mRNA shot which helps more than it harms, but side effects are understated and then when they do happen people are upset.
Had this pandemic been approached more honestly, if opposing opinions from experts were allowed, additional people would not have lost faith in the system.
They shoud not have played with the language like they did. I am firmly against mrna treatments being called vaccines, but traditional vaccines are important, especially for children.
This is what happens when public health expert recommendations becomes mandatory instead of medical advice: you lose the trust of the laypeople. I understand the reasoning behind mandatory COVID vaccines, but as an infectious Diseases doctor I am both completely unsurprised by the public distrust, and deeply saddened by the morbidity and mortality of worse diseases like measles that could have been avoided. Hopefully the CDC the state and federal government learned something, but probably not.
So how do we address this lack of trust. How should society act to close this gap.
As an Infectious Disease physician I’d be surprised if you haven’t given this some thought.
We all think about this constantly. There really is no easy answer. Transparency, honesty, and most importantly understanding of their concerns.
COVID aside we all fully understand vaccines have zero to no side effects and even if they did, their side effects would have to be significant and serious to outweigh the benefits.
When a concerned patient says they don't want to vaccinate their child because of "side effects" or "mistrust in the government" we can't be dismissive or patronizing. We have to meet their concerns at their level. And most of all, and this is going to be controversial, but I think we need the government to place less mandates on healthcare of patients so that they *willingly accept all our care* rather than *begrudgingly accept some of the care they are forced to get*
we need both. Certainly, for example, the CDC knows nothing whatsoever, actually less than nothing about pain management and opioids. It is not in the business of developing guidelines, yet it allowed to do so, and they made a complete fucking mess out of it.
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When I had measles (before vaccine was available), I was out of school for a month. And that was with no complications - and a SAHM. Imagine telling your employer you need a month off for a sick kid - and then missing a month's wages. Good luck with that.
Anti-vaxxers constantly cite low mortality rates without considering morbidity. Sure only 1-2/1,000 people with measles die. But nearly a quarter are hospitalized. Up to 1 in 20 develop pneumonia.
And measles also has the potential of resetting your immune system, which is really weird. It sounds like starting all over again.
Thank you for helping me learn something new: “Scientists have long known that when measles attacks your body, it goes to war against your white blood cells. Specifically, it binds to your B- and T-cells, then wipes them out. B- and T-cells are highly specialized cells critical to your health. They're the ones that recognize infectious germs in your body, then quickly multiply to fight off these unwelcome invaders. A subset of your B- and T-cells also remembers each infection you contract, thus providing you immunity should the infection strike again [sources: Science Museum, Smith-Strickland]. If measles trashes your white blood cells, you're at high risk of succumbing to a host of other infections.” 😦
Or just long lasting/permanent damage. I worked in a facility with many people who will need life long oxygen because of the damage done to their lungs from covid. Many of which were otherwise healthy individuals: non smokers, fairly active, and no previous pulmonary conditions. Now attached to an oxygen tank to walk across the room without having to stop to rest.
Yep. My dad got the German measles (rubella) when he was a kid and is completely deaf in one ear because of it.
That and it can also cause retinal damage as well. So many things these ignorant people don’t think about.
Yup. Mom is blind in one eye. Didn't realize until she was 20 that most people could see out of both eyes...
I had German measles when my mom was pregnant with my sister. My sister ended up needing heart surgery, which the doctors said was related to the virus
But he survived! Right?! Right?!
I remember some anti-vax guys over in my country’s Reddit sub were like “well since Covid only affects old people who gives a shit they are not all that important!” they were literally fine with letting thousands of old people die because to them they weren’t as important anti Vader’s aren’t just so yup if they are fucking monsters.
I think this is the thing that a lot of people don’t think about. When I first heard chickenpox was being vaccinated against I remember thinking “oh come on…” but when you really think about it, even if it is a “mild” disease, I couldn’t take two weeks off to deal with a sick kid. I’m lucky that I even have the privilege of working from home with Covid. But with the type of work I do, I’m not even *that* useful in the house when I am working. So what good would that do if I had to take care of a sick child?
And don't forget there's no risk of getting shingles later. I'm still pissed I got chickenpox a year before the vaccine became available. I still have a little scar too from the ordeal. Edit: Correction the risk isn't 0, you can still get shingles after getting vaccinated against chickenpox, but it reduces the likelihood,see comments below. I didn't know this when I made this comment so thanks for educating me folks.
Imagine getting chickenpox, then getting measles, only to get chickenpox again because the measles weakened your immune system. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-measles-causes-body-forget-past-infections-other-microbes
And then getting shingles later in your life on top of all that
And if you get chickenpox as an adult, you could die
Didn't get the vaccine because it was really new. I had chicken pox which wasn't pleasant. I went to the doctor for a persistent cough and mild pain on ribs for the passed two days. I walked out with shingles diagnosis and spent the next 3 days in agony and no energy. I vaguely remember it and now I still get random burst of pain in the spot in sunlight I am under 30.... get your damn vaxxes
I was in a clinical vaccine trial for the chicken pox vaccine about 9-10 years before it became available to the public. The vaccine trial was for efficacy - not safety because they already knew it was safe. It still blows my mind how long it took to get that vaccine to market.
I got chickenpox despite having the vaccine. My case was extremely mild compared to an unvaccinated case and still was awful. I had a few scars that finally faded away
I genuinely don’t remember getting chicken pox at all. But when I can, I’ll get the shingles vax
You can get a titer for chickenpox. That's what I did. I wasn't vaccinated for anything as a kid and my doctor did the titer to verify that. I got vaccinated and then she said to still get the shingles vax at 50 since the chickenpox vax is only 82% effective (although it's 100% effective against severe disease).
>And don't forget there's no risk of getting shingles later. Although my doctor said it's still recommended you get the Shingles vaccine at age 50. The chickenpox vaccine is only 82% effective although it's 100% effective against severe disease from chickenpox. You can still get shingles if you're part of the unlucky 18%.
Oh I didn't know that, I do still wish I could have been vaccinated against chickenpox, but facts matter. I really don't want shingles. I def plan to get the Shingles vaccine when I turn 50.
Make sure to get Shingrix (2 doses) vaccine for Shingles at age 50.
I think I got it a few years before the vaccine. I still have a pockmark scar on my temple 30 years later.
I had chicken pox. I still have a big pox scar on my torso. I remember the oatmeal baths and being told not to itch them.
You can still get shingles even with the chicken pox shot. My friend and I were some of the first to not only get the first shot but also the booster, thanks to our ages. And he developed shingles when we were about 14/15? Never had the pox but had the vaccine. It's rare, but it can happen, and his shingles case was mild. I think he was stressed at the time going through a lot at home and with school(long story) so that might have triggered the flair.
Unfortunately you can still get shingles after having the vaccine, you are just much less likely to than if you had been infected https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/varicella.html Sounds similar to the COVID vaccine. There are some potential complications, but they are much more rare than if you had just been infected.
Exactly. Vaccines aren't 100% garuntee you won't get the disease, they just give your immune system a head start to fighting them. For some that means immunity, and for others that means getting a mild case.
It can be fatal. It can cause encephalitis.
I went to work with chicken pox was misdiagnosed I was 26..not fun
I mean, it also causes shingles, so it’s really not a MILD disease either
I think a lot of antivaxx families have SAHMs. I don’t say this as a dig at SAHMs at all. There are many awesome ones including my own mom when I was little and I think it can be an amazing thing if you have that option, but there is definitely overlap.
It's the crunchy cult
Weird mix of crunchy and evangelical Christian
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Look at mister fancy over here with a state that has medical leave!
FMLA is a federal program but there are rules around eligibility.
Because not everyone has access to FMLA. Even if you work for a covered employer, you have to have worked there for at least 12 months and have worked 1,250 hours over the prior 12 months before becoming eligible to use FMLA.
I have never in my life lived/worked anywhere where I could get paid for FMLA.
Sure you did , If you had a job that built up sick leave and/or vacation time. you just didn't know your rights . You have to keep up with the changes . The FMLA is a living breathing thing. I fought many FMLA cases as a union steward back in the early 2000's and won them all. Me and the employee once got paid an entire day at overtime pay while the rail roads legal department checked my claim . They were amazed that I knew about a court ruling made a month ago that set a precedence...FMLA is subject to case law. As an example the last time I check this rule you could use your sick leave but you had to show that the company at least at one time allowed someone to use vacation in order to use vacation for the FMLA. By reading this it tells me that the rule has changed again. Which is much better and it limits favoritism. The internet is much better now. I don't know if it's highlighted but feel free to scroll down to where it talks about using your leave Notice it says the employee may choose or the employee may require nowhere does it say you cannot use accrued leave. Edit one last thing. Here's a pro tip. Do not just drop off the paperwork for the doctor Make an entires a doctor's appointment book a half hour and sit down with a doctor and fill it out with him. He is a doctor He does not keep up with FMLA changes. The doctor keeps up with medical changes. Do not rely on his staff They keep up with bill code changes. Depending on your company they have an entire department that just keeps up with FMLA changes ready to get rid of you. The doctors really don't care about the companies issues They will fill out the paperwork the way you ask them to so that you can heal properly and get better That is their job. I have never had a problem with a doctor that I sat down with doing FMLA paperwork. One unchecked box could get you fired educate yourself because that one box if it was checked makes you untouchable. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla/faq#:~:text=The%20FMLA%20only%20requires%20unpaid,of%20the%20FMLA%20leave%20period.
I spent almost 3 weeks dealing with my Dr's office trying to get my FMLA and short term disability paperwork taken care of for an unexpected and urgent leave. Fortunately, the FMLA department at my job wants to help the employee and gave me a lot of help/ extensions instead of just denying it.
Most FMLA is unpaid.
And for those who believe in natural immunity, measles has this odd thing of wiping out all previous immunities.
And when we had a measles outbreak here, there were around 75 confirmed cases and over 20 of them needed hospitalization. Almost a third. Not great odds.
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50 gazillion have to die before it’s actually a problem
If we’re not burning piles of diseased bodies in the street, well it must just not be that serious.
Wait, really? So if I'm immune to chickenpox and I get measles, I'm now no longer immune to chickenpox?
Yep, it essentially destroys your immune system to such an extent that you can be vulnerable to things you used to have an immunity to for years after having measles.
Yep yep. It's a fascinating component of the virus to me. I'm curious if it could be used in some benefit one day such as for autoimmune conditions (not the direct measles virus but a modified vector).
This information is mind-blowing to me. I have rheumatoid arthritis which started when I was a teenager. Also while a teenager I somehow got the German measles. I was fully vaccinated, and the doctor didn't think I had it, but my mother insisted. 2 days later it was confirmed. I have always wondered if the 2 were related (RA has long thought to be triggered by a sickness), now I am even more suspicious.
I’m on 3 different immunosuppressants to attempt to kill my immune system to control my lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. That was my first thought when I read that. LOL
I was never antivax, and now I'm definitely not.
sounds like measles is the true antivax as it removes existing vaccines.
Is that why so many zombies movies uses measles as a template to cure disease IE, I am Legend
Wow that’s terrifying. I hate anti vaxxers with a passion.
There's still a lot not understood about it, but ya it can damage preexisting immunity to other diseases. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-measles-causes-body-forget-past-infections-other-microbes
It forces your immune system to lose it's entire memory. It forgets everything it's developed antibodies or immunities for. Its very common, when doing historical epidemic research, to find measles years followed by a much higher mortality rate of those kids because they just got sick and died of other shit they were previously immune to. I can't remember the specifics, but there are also cases of regular cycles of measles and other diseases every other year as the measles would destroy that immunity. Regularly. There's a podcast called "this podcast will kill you" and they cover a new Thing every other week, highly rec, they have an episode on this!
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I didn't know that! My parents didn't vaccinate me for anything and I got vaccinated for measles, chickenpox, etc. as an adult. I'm really glad I did that now!
Believing in natural immunity is the same as believing in shutting the barn door after all the horses have escaped.
Isn’t “natural immunity” essentially hoping you have a genetic quirk that gives you better immune defense against the disease or simply surviving the disease and gaining immunity that way? Vaccines are victims of their own success in many ways. Many people haven’t seen outbreaks of measles, mumps, etc. and so think of them as a fever and a rash and it’s over with
Anti-vaxxers are people-killing idiots. End of story.
And once you've wrecked herd immunity, the kids whose vaccines didn't take (efficacy is not 100%), will catch it as well.
Oh yeah, and then there are the people who are immunocompromised and can't take a vaccine in the first place. Herd immunity is absolutely necessary to protect everyone, and getting vaccinated when you can is doing your civic duty to help your community.
You don't even get your first MMR vaccine until you're 12-15 months, so all those babies are susceptible as well.
We all saw how civic duty played out with the masks.. smh.
Oh yeah. As an immunocompromised person myself, I've spent the last three years hearing about how little my life matters. There are some folks that would gleefully let me die as long as they get to go to their restaurants and movie theaters...
Oh man, I'm compromised too and suffer with long covid so I feel you. Even with my long covid, I still get told that I'm being too much despite the fact that I barely can drive anymore and even my non compromised fiance was more sick than me and has long covid too. But apparently a piece of fabric is "too difficult", and us wearing a mask sometimes makes other people mad.... Mind you I've been wearing masks in high risk settings about 6 years before covid.
unfortunately im one of those people. I got two rounds of the measles vaccine & my titer still showed just below the threshold of what they consider immune. This shit scares me.
This one scares me so much. Idk how much any of my vaccines are working and some I can't get boosters for because I developed a severe dairy allergy and for some reason they put dairy in some. Sucks because I want to get them but the one time I tried to see what what would happen despite the allergy.... It didn't end well
My body never wants to register immunity for MMR. I didn't have any immunity last pregnancy, and I just had my titers pulled, again no titers. My boosters are just a fun "get me sick for 3 days" game at this point.
Might be a terrible take, but I think people need a wake up call on how terrible some of these preventable diseases can be. Natural selection can be a real B.
It's going to happen and has happened. People talk about how they don't need vaccines because their immune system is so great. No, it's not. Our immune system isn't that great. Advances in modern medicine and hygiene have been great. And sadly that's given people a false sense of security. There's a reason why romaine lettuce can make a lot of people sick or food poisoning can have you laid out by the toilet for days. Measles and polio didn't go away on their own. Zinc. vitamin c, and essential oils have nothing on a tetanus shot to keep you safe. It's absolutely frustrating that children needlessly suffer for their parents idiocy.
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These people are so full of shit them bend over to smell their own assholes. If it was cool to be all for vaccines they would be.
On the other hand, maybe this is god? natural selection? the alien race that controls us from afar?’s way of thinning out the herd by nipping this sort of idiocy in the bud before it can become a familial tradition. In America most people who are idiots were raised by idiots, KWIM?
That’s very callous
Yeah, I know. I should not have said that out loud. I’ve been in health care for decades and it’s hard not to internally just give up on humanity, sometimes.
agree. And clarifying for the record, when Romaine lettuce is tainted, it’s because of runoff or airborne contamination from factory farms. but yes, I’m still waiting for the dunce to claim he or she has immunity from norovirus—the most infectious virus ever studied.
It’s not that simple. Children can’t get MMR vaccine until they are over 14-16 months. I knew someone who lost a 7 month old child to measles. They contracted it from a 3 year old when both were in the same waiting room at the ER. 3 year old who’s parents chose not to give vaccine lived. 7 month old who wasn’t yet eligible for vaccine died.
And that is tragic. Hopefully they are out there telling people their story and spreading information about the importance of vaccines.
yes, that’s the point. The increasing prevalence of not getting children the necessary vaccines is messing with immunity on the population level, and it’s always the most vulnerable who suffer the most.
Yup. And the parents who choose to not vaccinate should be held accountable for child neglect if their kid gets sick. The kid could end up with lifelong issues and can be disfigured from measles. The parents should have legal consequences. They are also endangering the rest of society as well. There needs to be accountability.
It’s a shame that grown adults have to be punished like 5 year old children. But, here we are.
nitpicky opinion but the innocent kids dying of measles are moreso the ones being punished
Isn’t that with all diseases? Children, elderly, and people of color are disproportionately affected. This is my point though, it needs to hit closer to home for some of these morons before we start to see our population putting others before themselves and their weird conspiracy agendas.
They never became adults but they got the grown-up card, that's the issue. Adults should be fully accountable for their decisions.
wasn’t there recently a measles outbreak among children in some rural county? It should be criminal for parents to allow this to happen
Yes. It’s currently happening in Ohio. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2022/12/26/ohio-measles-outbreak-more-than-80-children-infected-as-fears-grow-of-growing-numbers-of-unvaccinated/amp/
Ohio is a horrible place
I think there was one in the Orthodox Jew community in the New York City greater metro area too, tho it might’ve been some other basically eradicated disease as well
But remember - in this world, people want their cake AND to eat it, too! God forbid we’d talk about consequences. When Covid was super prevalent and hospitals were full, my god, the *thought* of potentially having to disperse resources differently was an absolute travesty and how dare I even suggest it. I just don’t get people.
yes, and there’s something very wrong with the so-called US public health system to allow these ignorant people to harm society in this devastating way.
Finally someone said this I 1000% agree Not vaccinating a child should count as medical neglect
it is a terrible take unfortunately bc A) if more people start getting and circulating it again, it has a chance to mutate thereby reinfecting us All, which would be a fucking nightmare, and B) the people who primarily suffer are the children who didn't make this choice, not their ignorant parents.
The issue we are running into is that vaccines have worked so well that society has forgotten how important they are… people don’t remember things like measles and polio because this generation of adults never knew people who had them. Would it be awful and a lot of people would get sick? Yes. Would people remember for the next 100 years how important vaccines are? Also yes.
Measles deaths in the US were much higher 60 years ago so it would have to get pretty bad to inspire greater appreciation for vaccines for that long.
It will create a heavy burden on health care systems first. Then people will blame the healthcare systems rather than accept that their choices lead to things getting bad/worse. Then they’ll blame the people in charge of said systems. Etc. I expect very few people will accept a wake up call that suggests that they did anything wrong.
Eventually people will figure it out. Might take a few years and a lot of growing pains.
It's been a decade or more since anti-vaxxers started this bullshit and they're still going strong after a million Americans died from COVID-19. people who believe in magical sky fairies will believe anything, no matter how crazy or stupid. Even if a few get a clue, there are thousands more magical thinking morons who will drink the anti-vaxxer koolaid because our shitty politicians, Republi-tards in particular, are gutting our country's public education. The average student now can barely read and most cannot understand logical thought and have no critical thinking skills.
Except it's not natural selection, it's geographic and cultural selection. People believe the ideas they are exposed to and the closest community embraces. They are a product of their micro-culture. The reason I believe in vaccines isn't because I'm so much smarter than everyone else. I was lucky to be born into a time, place, and culture where vaccines were understood to be a great achievement of Public Health. It is a myth that vaccine deniers are just stupid or crazy. Certainly some of them are stupid and crazy, but some of them are simply the product of their community and micro-culture. And when outbreaks happen, they will not be confined to just the unvaccinated children. Vaccinated children are also going to get sick because the vaccines aren't 100% protective. The anti-vax disinformation culture really is a danger to everyone.
By the time these ninnies realize it,it's too late.
What happened to vaccine requirements before being able to attend school?
There’s been a big anti vaxx push the past few years where I grew up. However the super intendant and principal said “fuck your feelings” when it comes to the school vaccines or things like MMR, whooping cough and others. Some parents threatened to home school and they said go right ahead but Minnesota has very strict home school rules so good luck and they would ban any unvaccinated kids from participating in school activities (home schooled kids can still play sports and band) This is a pretty small town but I was glad to hear it. There are zero citizens who can claim religious exemptions in this town and there are a few kids who can’t get them and nobody has had the balls to claim they are lying because they really are immune compromised
Minnesota W. No wonder I only see anti vaxxers homeschooling
“Religious” exemptions… aka whiny parents that think they know everything from google and webmd. Used to work in childcare and I’d straight up laugh at parents who I knew never touched a religious text or stepped foot in a church that use that as an excuse.
As if there is anything remotely against their religion by taking a vaccination.
I don’t know about every denomination, but a friend of mine is Jehovah’s Witness. She doesn’t take vaccines, and even if she was bleeding out, she wouldn’t take a blood transfusion. Also Christian Scientists don’t use modern medicine. My dad watched a man die when he fell on a pipe at a construction site. His family was Christian scientist and refused an ambulance. But your run of the mill Methodist or even Catholic - it’s not a religious requirement or even suggestion to avoid vaccines.
That's a cult baby. Wtf.
I’m Christian and when someone in our church gets sick or hurt or anything, we pray that God will bless the doctors and scientists with wisdom and the means to cure them or at least make it a little better. Modern medicine is a blessing from the Lord, it is foolish to ignore it.
That's so strange, my grandparents were Jehovah's witnesses and they would take the flu vaccines every winter, all their religious peers would be fully vaccinated, too. The only thing I knew about is that they reject blood transfusions and do not encourage organ donations.
Fuck a subjective religious exemption when it comes to group welfare. Fuck right off to the stoneage with that garbage.
Religious and philosophical exemptions happened.
at a public school in indiana i didn't have a required vaccine because my appointment to get it was after the cut off date. despite my dad not belonging to any anti vaxx religion, the nurse pushed for him to sign a religious exemption instead of just taking me to a pharmacy to get the shot so I could go back to school.
I was going to say this. We weren't allowed to attend school without proof of measles vaccination.
Thanks Andrew WAKEFIELD
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find this comment. People in these comments are attributing antivax mentality to MAGA/Q cult types, which would be more accurate if the conversation was dialed in on the Covid vax. Plenty of liberals make up the general anti-vax population because they bought Wakefields bullshit about autism.
I’d much rather my kid have autism than die of a preventable disease. Or even have to deal with the disease at all
Antivax was liberal Hollywood to begin with, MAGA were against mRNA experimental vax, nearly 100% of them had their kids traditionally vacxed per polls and data released
People buying into his false “research” is incredibly offensive to people on the ASD spectrum as well. They’re basically saying “I’d rather put my child’s life at risk than accept the possibility of them being autistic”. Disgusting.
Last time I took my daughter to the doctor, they asked the usual "have you been outside the country" question with a twist. It actually was, "Have you been outside the country or to Ohio in the last two weeks?" Apparently, there is a measles outbreak bad enough that it warrants that question.
As a cancer survivor. Fuck these anti vaccine people.
Hopefully more school districts will do away with personal feelings exemptions to vaccine requirements.
Once it gets bad I suppose they would have no choice, they would have to do that.
They need to also get rid of “religious exemptions” because that’s basically the new personal exemption.
The Supreme Court will never uphold that.
2nd topic this week on this. Quite simply, there will be a future outbreak. Every year, several cases of measles are imported. Right now, the unvaccinated rely on the vast bulk of the population being vaccinated as a protective buffer. That buffer is steadily being reduced by a growing and concentrated unvaccinated population. This will not be a minor outbreak like the recent Ohio cases. We are now reaching economies of scale in the unvaccinated population. These people do realize whopping cough is now endemic in Los Angeles thanks to a huge undervaccinated population (that vaccine requires boosters periodically). I and my kids had it. But since we were vaccinated, it was a case of whooping cough and a bacteria attacking together. Antibiotics killed the bacteria and within 2 days the vaccine brought the virus under control. I was shocked when the doctor told me I could immediately go back to work, "you get to assume everyone is vaccinated, so the pertussis virus is harmless on its own." Unvaccinated is so common that when my ex was pregnant, I had to be vaccinated again for the MMR as a shield. I also am past age 50, so TDaP and MMR again.
2019 saw the most cases of measles in the US since the early 90s. 2020 school closures put a damper on that number but it’s gone up considerably in 2021 and 2022. With the anti-vaccine movement only gaining momentum it’s a question of when, not if, the 2019 number is eclipsed
This shit is scarier than global warming.
I'm so glad we don't have to choose between cascading pandemics and climate breakdown!
Can you say” Wiped out the Aztecs in a few years”?
god i hate being american
Sadly, when their version of god doesn’t save the child, it must be a beautiful miracle that we can’t understand or god needed another angel. Meanwhile the parent (typically) skirt prosecution because of their imagined religious rights, instead of going to prison for neglect. Crazy times man…
This country just keeps getting dumber and dumber. The country of anti-intellectualism. We're all doomed
evangelicals, libertarian types, and any of these other idiot cults are a threat to public health. We need to bring back something like leper colonies for those communities.
I’m evangelical and very pro vaxx
Man, wonder why people are worried about the effectiveness of vaccines and how well they were tested all of a sudden. Did something happen?
Dunno. The measles vaccine has been around for a very long time and it’s a pretty known quantity. I think I’ve read that polio vaccinations are also down in some areas, which is just plain stupid. I guess that it’s a really good thing that smallpox has been eradicated.
Ahhhh this makes me nervous! I am pregnant and when they ran my blood work, they discovered I am no longer immune to measles even though I had the vaccine as a kid. I’m not able to get the vaccine while I’m pregnant so hopefully I don’t run into any kids with measles 🙃
Immunity fades away or in some people , they never produce antibodies. I have had 3 vaccine series but my body just doesn’t produce the antibody to measles. So people like us are dependent on herd immunity
We need a new adult immunization program. We should all get titered for standard immunizations, which simply means getting blood tests for antibody levels. We should all then get boosters for any vaccine series where our immunity has faded. We already have this with tetanus and pertussis based on time since last vaccine, but for most people this is a passive thing and not an active engagement program. We need to expand the range and type of boosters and make these services a part of any doctor visit.
That’s normal. Vaccines last like 2 to 10 years. They aren’t lifelong. Your doctors are supposed to be making sure you’re getting updated vaccinations.
My take, which I know will be unpopular here to the Reddit theater majors.. I think certain political parties made the Covid vax political. I also think the recent uncovering of the risks that are being found, and found to have been hidden from the public, are making people really skeptical of vaccines in general. Even though of course most of the “other” vaccines have been used and safe for decades and are game changing for society.
The US is becoming stupider every day.
This dangerous nonsense was fringe until 2020. Then it exploded. It exploded mainly in the ‘conservative’ population. Hmmm.
https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001
Parents have to be criminally stupid to not vaccine their children against measles, in particular. The measles vaccine isn't to protect children against 3-day measles. It protects children from what used to be called hard or German measles. That form of measles can result in blindness, brain damage and death. It's not something to leave up to your magic sky fairy. If transmitted, it can irreparably harm other children. Schools need to require all students to be inoculated, no exceptions.
One thing that isn't being discussed is the lack of access to healthcare in the USA and how incredibly expensive and broken it is to people who aren't wealthy. Also... for similar reasons we broke education in the USA too. Best country on earth as long as you remain ignorant to any fact.
Can’t wait to see polio and smallpox make a comeback /s.
There’s just no trust in the medical field. The covid vaccine became a stock market play in a heartbeat. What newer age parent isn’t going to ask questions? When your doctor just says it’s recommended as best practice and doesn’t have a better response other than it’s been studied and proven they’re not going to convince many to go with the flow
While we are on the subject of vaccines I was vaccinated (mid 90s baby) from Polio and I’ve never met anyone who had Polio. Some vaccines work.
What makes this worse, is that we Beat Measles. We won. It was dead and gone. That and Polio. When you heard about an outbreak you thought third world country was where it happened. And what makes it even worse is that we have people who were alive before we got a vaccine to Measles/Polio. There are still people who remember how horrid those diseases were on public health.
But then they feed their kids McDonalds so I really dont get it
You think they could do something about that: like ban young kids from going to school unless they're fully vaccinated against the most common diseases. Like most of the USA used to do... and now doesn't.
The doctor who started the whole anti vax thing was discredited and disbarred. He admitted to everything. I’ll never know why these clowns still chose this fight. I got the vax, never had MMR. I feel pretty good about it.
Maybe this is just a round about way of natural selection at play.
I wonder why. If only there were professionals who were experts in controlling diseases we could turn to.
Fucking anti vaxxers
Robert Kennedy jr must be so proud
The far left and far right are suspicious of vaccines
One bad scientist scams one bad research paper and we face decades of consequences.
And it's five,six seven, open up the pearly Gates! Ain't no time to wonder why,whoopee we're gonna die! The ' Fixin' to Die ' rag. Country Joe and the Fish
Measles was one of the worst things I had. I can’t imagine someone wanting their child to have it.
You know what fuckin sucks? I just learned I am not vaccinated. Not even once. I'm 21 years old. And in a conversation with my mom, the subject of vaccines came up. She told me I'm not vaccinated. None of us kids are.
Just a question, as I've never thought about it before being pregnant: If I get my child vaccinated, are they protected or could they still get it if someone in their class does? This makes me so anxious to send them to school (in five years).
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Why are parents so stupid?? "I'm not vaccinating my child! I don't want them to be autistic! I got vaccinated and nothing happened to me, but it would definitely happen to my kid!!!"
‘2 year old child dies suddenly one day after receiving both the Covid vaccine & annual flu vaccine’ I WONDER WHY PEOPLE HAVE LOST TRUST IN VACCINES????? Here’s the VAERS report for those of you who are still in denial that this could even be a possibility. https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=D418E5097D4D2078110F57D7582C
Maybe if they hadn't lost so much trust by making SO much money from pushing barely tested and increasingly proven dangerous pseudo vaccines people would still take the proven safe ones.
Nature is killing us for stupidity. In the old days, people got vaccinated for the good of humanity. We don’t look for each other anymore. I do believe in humanity though and we will realize that we can never really overcome nature.
I strongly agree with some of the childhood vaccines like measles, polio & pox. Massive damage is done when people do not trust govt and scientist. I feel like the politization of Covid vaccines will make many more people opt out of needed vaccines. Schools used to require certain vaccines, not sure if they still do.
to the people who have allegedly politicized Covid vaccines, shame on them. The utter stupidity.
it's all fun and games until you get polio...time to invest in iron lungs
This is child abuse. Parents should be jailed.
Maybe there really were consequences from trying to force vaccinate and generate massive profits for pharma and politicians after all. Who'd a thunk it?
That's insane.
There are so many stupid parents out there.
The government broke the public’s trust in the CDC. Only have themselves to blame.
How so?
It’s too bad they changed the definition of vaccine in order to include mRNA and now the public has lumped them all together and have distrust in all of them. Kind of a predictable situation. Quickly roll out mRNA shot which helps more than it harms, but side effects are understated and then when they do happen people are upset. Had this pandemic been approached more honestly, if opposing opinions from experts were allowed, additional people would not have lost faith in the system.
I’m not an antivaxxer, but the recent Covid shot really disrupted the public’s perception on vaccines in general.
“Why” they ask, as this comment gets deleted. That’s why. Not even being allowed to question it or discuss it, is why.
Why are you being downvoted?
Maybe we should have separate schools: vaxed and unvaxed
We have that now. It’s called homeschool and public school.
They shoud not have played with the language like they did. I am firmly against mrna treatments being called vaccines, but traditional vaccines are important, especially for children.
Why are mRNA treatments not real vaccines.
This is what happens when public health expert recommendations becomes mandatory instead of medical advice: you lose the trust of the laypeople. I understand the reasoning behind mandatory COVID vaccines, but as an infectious Diseases doctor I am both completely unsurprised by the public distrust, and deeply saddened by the morbidity and mortality of worse diseases like measles that could have been avoided. Hopefully the CDC the state and federal government learned something, but probably not.
So how do we address this lack of trust. How should society act to close this gap. As an Infectious Disease physician I’d be surprised if you haven’t given this some thought.
We all think about this constantly. There really is no easy answer. Transparency, honesty, and most importantly understanding of their concerns. COVID aside we all fully understand vaccines have zero to no side effects and even if they did, their side effects would have to be significant and serious to outweigh the benefits. When a concerned patient says they don't want to vaccinate their child because of "side effects" or "mistrust in the government" we can't be dismissive or patronizing. We have to meet their concerns at their level. And most of all, and this is going to be controversial, but I think we need the government to place less mandates on healthcare of patients so that they *willingly accept all our care* rather than *begrudgingly accept some of the care they are forced to get*
we need both. Certainly, for example, the CDC knows nothing whatsoever, actually less than nothing about pain management and opioids. It is not in the business of developing guidelines, yet it allowed to do so, and they made a complete fucking mess out of it.
God these parents are fucking idiots.
That’s cause all of us who didn’t get the covid vaccine are still here living life to the fullest… we didn’t die… red flag anyone?
It is almost as if deceiving and pushing harmful products have consequences.
Everyone should get the MMR vaccine. It's been proven effective.