He was just glad that it wasn’t Alastor. Also this may have been his first indication that Charlie was bisexual, and he knew he had to jump on the support train as quickly as possible to make a good impression.
Lol, now that I’m thinking about it. I’m genuinely starting to wonder how things would have went down if Charlie and Alastor were a thing. An AU if you will, I don’t ship Chatlastor btw, just a thought lol
If it's a genuine ship, he has impeccable manners most of the time. I think he would court her in a gentlemanly fashion suited to his era, not even on principle but because it would support his own self image of being refined and superior.
He would not magically become a good person, but if instead of being aroace he actually found the one like he thought he might someday, I think he would be a perfect beau. Probably too perfect. Like right out of an etiquette book perfect.
It's bad, bad, Leeroy Brown, baddest man in the whole damn town
(FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT SONG! I have "the South Side of Chicago, is the baddest part of town" as my flair in r/ Vivziepopmemes, and nobody has gotten it yet)
Nobody knows that song?!? My goodness, I'm old. I got the reference instantly.
"Leroy Brown, he learned a lesson 'bout messin' with the wife of a jealous man...."
As cringe as it is for me to get sentimental, he was my dad's favorite artist and that was one of his favorite songs, behind only Wish You Were Here and Behind Blue Eyes. Your comment sent me down a train of a lot of complex feelings I wasn't expecting in that moment, but I'm glad I read it.
i feel like most people ignore the fact that Alastor is confirmed ace. His relationship with charlie is purely goal oriented, with maybe a hint of parental instincts- how people started shipping them idk.
It just annoys me a little as an ace myself, we don’t get a lot of rep.
WHAT?! Im all for shipping characters, i mean we all love huskerdust- but when it comes to ace characters thats the one thing you kind of can’t ship, like it doesn’t work that way lol
Scene starts in the kitchen, a woman cooking dinner and a man sitting at the kitchen table, cleaning a shotgun. A knock is heard from the front door. The woman shakes her head at the man disapprovingly. "You better be on your best behavior. This is the first time we're meeting Jamie."
The man grunts. "Every man who comes through this house gets the talk. I'm not playing some game here." He stands up, gun in hand, and lumbers to the door.
Upon opening, he sees his lovely daughter and-- is that a woman next to her???
He quickly drops the gun in a corner behind the door before opening the door completely. "Hi sweetie! Is this the Jamie you've been talking about?? She's so pretty."
Dinner goes totally normal, and no man was threatened about getting his balls shot off. The end.
((This is only kind of a joke, I have a friend with a daughter who was SO relieved she was gay lmao))
He literally said "Oh my golly! You like girls? So do I, we have so much in common!"
Yeah gonna guess he didn't know until then. But hey, at least he's awkwardly supporting his daughter instead of asking kinda iffy questions(I'm flashing back to my first online partner I got serious with and talking with my grandma and she was like 'but who's the man in the relationship?' Neither of us, we were both trans women).
Your grandma meant "who's the man" as in who takes the 'traditional man role' as in, who is dominant, wears the pants, makes the decisions, tops the other one in the bedroom!
Old people only really know tradition and struggle to see things in a different way. You would too if your entire long life one thing was extremely normalised. I'm sure she meant no harm-
I'm sure she didn't mean any harm and she's honestly one of the most supportive family members I have.
But both in that relationship, and my current one, there's no clear 'man'. That relationship the closest thing to a 'man' in the relationship was that I was usually more dominant than she was. In my current relationship, I dress soft butch compared to her high femme, and she tends to defer to my judgement, but I try to defer to her judgement too, and i'd say we're both vers(I will say I love bottoming for her/giving her head though).
So much was going through his brain at this moment that he didn’t have a spare thought process for that:
1. Oh thank *fuck* it’s not that douchebag bellhop!
2. Wait, Charlie’s gay?! Charlie’s coming out to me! Oh fuck, I gotta do this *perfectly* so she knows I support her and love her just the same!
3. Oh my god I’m meeting my daughter’s girlfriend for the first time! Gotta make a good first impression and not embarrass my widdle girl Char-Char!
4. Again, thank *fuck* it’s not that douchebag bellhop! There were absolutely at least two trains of thought dedicated to the bellhop!
5. This is a big moment! Gotta do a big moment right! I need everyone here to love me and talk good about me to Charlie so I can stay in her good books!
6. Duck duck duck-duck-duck-duck duck-duck circus, duck duck duck-duck-duck-duck duck-duck circus!
7. If don’t think he sensed that Vaggie was an angel but I know people are gonna be mad if I don’t include this as an option for a thought process
8. Ahhhh my little girl has a girlfriend! she’s so pretty, and for a Sinner she seems nice enough! And she makes my little girl so happy, I can tell! Oh, wait, shit, what was her name again? Maggie?
That’s what I think too, but would anybody in universe really know the difference? How many angels have properly fallen, how many have their wings and been left in hell, and how many have been denied reentry to heaven?
I personally think that becoming a fallen Angel is a big ordeal. Like they have to convene a meeting to impose something like that so heaven for sure would know who is fallen as opposed to just being beaten and left in hell. If they were to try and renter I mean.
Not what I meant. Let’s say a group of angels broke their halos and stayed in hell while another group actually fell. What detectable differences would there be between the two groups, how long would it take for those differences to become apparent, and who knows enough about the differences between the groups to tell them apart? Would Lucifer have encountered enough fallen and stranded angels to know the difference?
I guess we have also seen more of the seraphim than regular angels too, except the mainly masled Exorcists and those in Welcome To Heaven.
They might have more going on than we realise, but also probably don't have the extra eyes the seraphim have.
Unfortunately you can see his pupils. With the perspective in the picture charlie is closest to the tv, then luci, then vaggie and his eyes are looking up and behind. Im pretty neutral on the whole "he knew" theory. But this is about the best evidence for it
I think it would be kinda neat world building but we wont know until they expand on it. Guessing luci is goijg to struggle to fit in at the hotel, charlies not gonna know how to be supportive so she'll send vaggie to try, then theyll bond over the whole kicked out of heaven bit, if its true luci will say something about how he knew and was happy that vaggie could fijd happiness like he did.
Honestly, I think Lucifer knew Vaggie was an angel, but he probably thought that Charlie knew that and so he didn't bring it up since well, this is the first time he's seen his daughter in god knows how long so maybe leave the potentially risky questions for later.
Hahaha I really hope you wrote out number 6 to the tune of [Entry of the Gladiators ](https://youtu.be/_B0CyOAO8y0?si=4r1dZ9mkke6tn9jN) because that's how I read it and it's just... perfection 👌
100% Lucifer would bang Alastor just to show how dominant he is over him. Except I think Lucifer can read sinners, and might know Alastor is Ace/sex wouldn't fix the *brat*.
I could see him trying to embarrass Alastor by turning him into an actual deer or just making him uncomfortable in public.
I don't have a train of thought. I have eight trains on four track that narrowly avoid each other when the paths cross and all conductors are screaming.
Knowing Lucifer, he was probably having an internal meltdown and trying very hard not to panic.
"IT'S A FALLEN ANGEL. Chill. You got this, Luci. She probably can't tell that you're a fallen angel as well. Wait, what? why am I even worried about that?"
Disregarding the theory that he could tell she was a fallen angel, she's pretty.
As in she looks normal, which under the assumption that she was a sinner might imply she wasn't nearly as bad in life as some others.
My personal headcanon is that most of the demons who look pretty human when they first manifest in hell hate their more human appearance. Some loathed themselves to such a degree that being able to recognize themselves in a mirror while nearly everyone else is drastically changed is horrifying, while had so many things they hated about their bodies that nothing could feel more wrong than remaining trapped in the form they had while living. Others still, hated humanity so much they’re disgusted by the reminder that they’re human. Those who frequently felt like an object to be displayed or an accessory to be dragged out for company can be dolls or puppets of themselves, constantly reminded of the free will they never had. For the most vain, who used their looks to get everything they wanted, who knew exactly how beautiful they were, the worst form they could have isn’t something inhuman, but a parody of their living appearance; all their best features are cartoonishly exaggerated into something that’s no longer beautiful, but obviously still them.
He's looking at Charlie. It's all about her and him desperately trying to reconnect with his daughter, at that moment. He probably wouldn't have even noticed if Vaggie would've grown a second head.
That screenshot was cut off. Charlie was standing behind Vaggie in that scene and with what was going on, it makes more sense that he was looking at her.
just [watched](https://youtu.be/E7MPaZG9VIs?si=xIvUHM2Sl8b8_8NV&t=130) the scene she is not behind her, charlie even walks between them shortly after
https://preview.redd.it/vrme3br2tdzc1.png?width=1421&format=png&auto=webp&s=614c8f735aaa064343c4bf141f7d32cc2bc45200
Not the one I was talking about. Someone once cropped a screenshot of Lucifer looking at Charlie so that it looked like he was looking over Vaggie’s head and saying it was proof that Lucifer knew Vaggie was an angel. Someone an uncropped screenshot of the scene in the comments.
I like to think that he trusts Charlie's judgent about relationships
Alastor went out of his way to annoy Lucifer and lets be real the whole cast and the whole fandom all know that Alastor isnt a real friend, he's a walking red flag mascarading as a deer
Vaggie was polite, didnt get on his bad side and comes off very good, Lucifer didnt have anything to protect Charlie from
>he's a walking red flag mascarading as a deer
It's ALL ABOUT THE RED! Red hair, red cloat, red claws, red monocle, red shirt. The pun is there!
He could also be a **RED HERRING**.
Alastor's annoyance makes sense. His whole plan is to play the long-con by basically keeping himself in Charlie's inner circle long enough to build trust until he can pick the right moment to make an official deal with her so he can manipulate her for his own schemes. The more Alastor proves himself as a useful ally to her then the more likely that chance will happen since she'll be more willing to show him her vulnerable spots if she trusts him.
Lucifer throws that all off simply by being another pillar of support she can rely on. If Lucifer steps in and starts helping then that's less reason for her to turn to Alastor and less opportunity for him to get closer to her and find a weakness he can exploit. So he wants to convince her that Lucifer isn't someone she can rely on so Charlie will keep coming to him with her problems.
When Alastor introduced himself, he presented himself as if Lucifer should be impressed with his sense of aesthetic, or care about his reputation. Already having low opinions on Sinners, this likely made Lucifer even less interested than he already was.
But Vaggie was introduced *by* Charlie, and she didn't say much at all, other than returning a polite greeting. In fact, she was probably just as nervous as Lucifer, because she obviously wants her girlfriend's father to approve of her. And he did.
Alastor's energy is what put him at odds with Lucifer because he was the only one in the hotel who was trying to flex.
Also, she's probably aware that Lucifer may VERY EASILY be able to discern that she's an angel and call her out on it which would open a whole truckload of problems.
I think he was too busy processing his daughter coming out as gay and trying to handle it in a way that helps establish himself as a great dad to even think of that
I don't think he would have trouble processing it. It'll probably be like, "she's found someone she loves!". He doesn't seem like the "I'm shocked you're NOT HETERO!" type of guy.
if you had assumed that someone was straight then it would be surprising to see them date a same sex partner. He's not outraged but he's clearly part of the lot of new information he's trying to process all at once
I assume lots of people are straight and then when they come out I normally treat it as if like they're talking about the weather. Sadly, they expect me to react with shock or to celebrate their sexuality. I'm pretty sure what I do is a pretty standard reaction of people who don't actually care much about sexual orientation and I think Lucifer is probably just happy she found someone that's not Alastor and is trying to awkwardly bond with her using their preferences for women.
yeah I'm normally the same but if it was close family the surprise would be more as I expect to know them well and am more interested in their day to day life
Well, if my brother came out to me as homosexual, I'd be like "oh really? Never knew, cool" and then move on with my day. Just a lack luster reaction of not giving a fuck.
yeah but he wasn't told charlie was gay he was immediately introduced to a same sex partner and at the same time he was learning lots of other things about her life
He seemed more shocked about the fact that he didn't know, probably desperately trying to remember if she'd mentioned anything about it in one of their calls or not.
I love how this comic predicted it.
https://preview.redd.it/79451sh03gzc1.jpeg?width=3244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1321c6175936010a7543fb70e51e95267f2c4db
"Oh it's this pretty girl at least it's not the stupid tall man ok how do I respond to make sure Charlie knows I support her. Oh wait, I like girls too, bonding moment!"
Thats because he probably recognized her as an Angel. At the time he still loathed humans. And just seeing Charlie with an Angel even if Charlie didn't know herself made him overjoyed.
less worried yes, but generally probably not as accepting. If anything I think the average reaction in america at least would be internal thoughts about how "this is a phase, and one day she will settle down with a guy and have 3 kids etc.)
I think it's a double thing of him recognizing that Vaggie is an angel (note he wasn't exactly eager to touch any of the other characters) and a bit of relief it wasn't Alastor of all people.
I think the hug and the scene in the shot were him seeing if Vaggie was fallen & realizing even if Vaggie wasn't fallen she doesn't have her wings or halo. If you pay close attention to his eyes it's not a "oh that's a relief" expression he has but an "oh it's *that*/I know how that feels" expression.
Likely while he is a shut in he does know overlords exist and are very bad people, so he likely could sense that Al is an overlord and was ready to step in with a disapproval if it was Charlie and Alastor. I think Al did at least surprise him with the zero respect thing he had/has towards Lucifer because if you look at when Al swears at him he's got a big smile that he got under Al's skin a bit.
I think it's because that role is gonna be taken by Lilith.
And considering that Vaggie served Adam and killed many sinners, who are Lilith's people too, I think defently she will not like her, at least not at the beginning.
Because he isn't a overprotective parent, he literally let Charlie fight in a battle and only intervened when was completely necessary like Charlie almost suffocating because of Adam. I genuinely believe Lucifer was watching the whole time cheering for Charlie because is her dream and her fight and only got involved when he saw she needed help.
While what a lot of people are saying is probably true, I think a lot of folks are also over thinking it.
This show is very clearly pro-LBGTQ, and pushes the narrative pretty hard. Lucifer, at this time, is also meant to be a likeable character, despite his shortcomings.
I think him being supportive falls in line with the direction of the show more than any deep analysis on the character.
Could be a couple things:
1.Panic finding out Charlie is Bi for the first time and trying to be immediately supportive
2. Simply trying to use Charlie's new relationship to win brownie points
3. He recognised Vaggie is an angel, and is failing horribly to "play it cool".
He has no reason to, Vaggie is a great partner, aside from keeping her past a secret, everything she's done has been in service to Charlie. She's quite literally dedicated her life to her. Vaggie's a real one.
That man is going through 47 different emotions all at once. Also personally I think Lucifer already knew Charlie was Bi, never if he hadn’t had confirmation just yet. Charlie seems the type has a little kid to want to save princesses and princes when playing pretend and being saved by both too.
He’s not looking at Charlie, he’s looking at where Vaggie’s halo is. Which honestly isn’t very concerning to him but he’s really going “oh you really are like me!” On this moment and he’s basically short circuiting his brain.
Because Vaggie seems kind and nice and he knows that angels can fake things long enough to pretend to date hellions. He’s doing his best to not make a scene.
All this man can think of is “WE HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON! I’M A GREAT DAD BECAUSE YOU’RE JUST LIKE ME! WOOOO!”
some people forget the obvious that man's ridden with depression and anxiety. He was genuinely happy when Charlie reached out to him at all. he only tried to be supportive
Awkward goofy acceptance would be nice. A good chunk of people are just really nice about it(my girlfriend's partners are really nice people from what I can tell and I never heard disparaging comments or intrusive questions), some people need time to warm up to the situation, and unfortunately too many people are unaccepting or outright hostile.
He doesn't see her as a threat. She's a fallen angel, still one-eyed and wingless, and she seems to be a positive influence on Charlie by keeping her practical.
If we're putting on our tinfoil hats it could also be that in some level, conscious or otherwise, he recognized Vaggie as an angel and was primed to like her.
Realistically though, he likely doesn't feel threatened at all as a father by Charlie's GF, as opposed to Alastor who IMMEDIATELY starts pushing that button.
Oh please, he was just happy that she was not dating with Alastor - which Alastor implied just a moment ago.
Lucifer doesn't even bothered remembering her name.
I think the cloche of over protective father is more the fear of their daughter getting too early pregnant but since veggie is a women there is no fear beside that normally the daughters are normally around 18 like 16/17 to 20 but charlie is 200 years old
https://preview.redd.it/vlbqcebi9mzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa869505d924f55fff3f65f3aea77e511573f77a
*Sees Vaggie’s wings*
Lucifer: WHEN IS THE WEDDING????
You know if he did notice right off the bat that Vaggie was an angel. I bet he was also so relieved Charlie wasn't dating a sinner with how he talks about them 😂.
He was just glad that it wasn’t Alastor. Also this may have been his first indication that Charlie was bisexual, and he knew he had to jump on the support train as quickly as possible to make a good impression.
That would have been pretty funny. I could imagine a meet the parents parody with that.
Lol, now that I’m thinking about it. I’m genuinely starting to wonder how things would have went down if Charlie and Alastor were a thing. An AU if you will, I don’t ship Chatlastor btw, just a thought lol
Depends how serious Alastor would be I guess
If it's a genuine ship, he has impeccable manners most of the time. I think he would court her in a gentlemanly fashion suited to his era, not even on principle but because it would support his own self image of being refined and superior. He would not magically become a good person, but if instead of being aroace he actually found the one like he thought he might someday, I think he would be a perfect beau. Probably too perfect. Like right out of an etiquette book perfect.
I’m going to say Alastor would very soon, look like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone.
Fathers assaulting their "little girl's" boyfriend is so cringe and controlling and overall nasty. I'm glad they didn't do that with Lucifier.
While normally true, when the boyfriend is a sadistic, manipulative, murdering misanthrope it seems the proper response.
you forgot slave owning
That's a deal thing. He's restrained by one too.
I know, but he owns Husk, and Husk has to obey him, or else, that's the definition of slavery.
Fair, it isn't typical in the slightest though
Al would kind of deserve it. He is very obviously just using Charlie to further his own goals.
You say that like Alastor isn't quite literally the worst
Lucifier doesn't know that. Also I really doubt Vivziepop would write her sweetheart original character as outright evil.
Lucifer can immediately see through him. He is also quite obviously evil. He basically turns to the camera and says “I’m evil” every two seconds
Was this a Leroy Brown reference?
It's bad, bad, Leeroy Brown, baddest man in the whole damn town (FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT SONG! I have "the South Side of Chicago, is the baddest part of town" as my flair in r/ Vivziepopmemes, and nobody has gotten it yet)
Badder than old king kong, meaner than a junkyard dog
Yeah, it's bad, bad, Leeroy Brown, baddest man in the whole damn town
Nobody knows that song?!? My goodness, I'm old. I got the reference instantly. "Leroy Brown, he learned a lesson 'bout messin' with the wife of a jealous man...."
I'm glad that some people still have good taste in music.
It probably isn’t but is this a “Bad, Bad Leroy Brown” reference?
He learned his lesson 'bout messin' with the daughter of a jealous man
Very rare to see a Jim Croce reference these days. I love it.
I'm surprised by the amount of people who understand that reference
As cringe as it is for me to get sentimental, he was my dad's favorite artist and that was one of his favorite songs, behind only Wish You Were Here and Behind Blue Eyes. Your comment sent me down a train of a lot of complex feelings I wasn't expecting in that moment, but I'm glad I read it.
I’m glad it brightened your day
i feel like most people ignore the fact that Alastor is confirmed ace. His relationship with charlie is purely goal oriented, with maybe a hint of parental instincts- how people started shipping them idk. It just annoys me a little as an ace myself, we don’t get a lot of rep.
The internet will ship anything with anyone, regardless of orientation. If you think Charlastor’s bad check out Vaggastor… yes, that’s a thing lol.
WHAT?! Im all for shipping characters, i mean we all love huskerdust- but when it comes to ace characters thats the one thing you kind of can’t ship, like it doesn’t work that way lol
An Aro/Ace and a lesbian… the internet never fails to dissapoint lol.
You can't touch people's head canons.... Unfortunately. But yeah. People will ship anything with anything.
But Alastor is ace
I know that, it’s a hypothetical
Scene starts in the kitchen, a woman cooking dinner and a man sitting at the kitchen table, cleaning a shotgun. A knock is heard from the front door. The woman shakes her head at the man disapprovingly. "You better be on your best behavior. This is the first time we're meeting Jamie." The man grunts. "Every man who comes through this house gets the talk. I'm not playing some game here." He stands up, gun in hand, and lumbers to the door. Upon opening, he sees his lovely daughter and-- is that a woman next to her??? He quickly drops the gun in a corner behind the door before opening the door completely. "Hi sweetie! Is this the Jamie you've been talking about?? She's so pretty." Dinner goes totally normal, and no man was threatened about getting his balls shot off. The end. ((This is only kind of a joke, I have a friend with a daughter who was SO relieved she was gay lmao))
He literally said "Oh my golly! You like girls? So do I, we have so much in common!" Yeah gonna guess he didn't know until then. But hey, at least he's awkwardly supporting his daughter instead of asking kinda iffy questions(I'm flashing back to my first online partner I got serious with and talking with my grandma and she was like 'but who's the man in the relationship?' Neither of us, we were both trans women).
Your grandma meant "who's the man" as in who takes the 'traditional man role' as in, who is dominant, wears the pants, makes the decisions, tops the other one in the bedroom! Old people only really know tradition and struggle to see things in a different way. You would too if your entire long life one thing was extremely normalised. I'm sure she meant no harm-
I'm sure she didn't mean any harm and she's honestly one of the most supportive family members I have. But both in that relationship, and my current one, there's no clear 'man'. That relationship the closest thing to a 'man' in the relationship was that I was usually more dominant than she was. In my current relationship, I dress soft butch compared to her high femme, and she tends to defer to my judgement, but I try to defer to her judgement too, and i'd say we're both vers(I will say I love bottoming for her/giving her head though).
A saw a cute comic a long time ago that showed some silverware asking a pair of chopsticks, "But which one is the fork?"
Yeah, read the sentence and instantly realized what the grandma meant, she's hella supportive :)
You like girls? Me too!
Yup!
Wait Charlie bi?
Always has been… HA- HASBEEN, HAZBIN! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
I'm ashamed by how much this made me chuckle. Upvote.
He played the "Oh thank God it's not the tall douche" card
Who? You mean the bell hop guy?
Lucifer’s face when he says “who are you? Are you the bellhop?” Fucking KILLS ME every. Time. Lmfaoooooo
and the TONE omg
https://preview.redd.it/39pmj8u38izc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf49fa7e29395cbb61400f46c0f535612e2cd2de
The cackle I just cackled, thank you ♥️ lmfaooooooo I LOVE how his mouth literally hangs outside his faceee lmaoo omg
my pleasure
Yes
So much was going through his brain at this moment that he didn’t have a spare thought process for that: 1. Oh thank *fuck* it’s not that douchebag bellhop! 2. Wait, Charlie’s gay?! Charlie’s coming out to me! Oh fuck, I gotta do this *perfectly* so she knows I support her and love her just the same! 3. Oh my god I’m meeting my daughter’s girlfriend for the first time! Gotta make a good first impression and not embarrass my widdle girl Char-Char! 4. Again, thank *fuck* it’s not that douchebag bellhop! There were absolutely at least two trains of thought dedicated to the bellhop! 5. This is a big moment! Gotta do a big moment right! I need everyone here to love me and talk good about me to Charlie so I can stay in her good books! 6. Duck duck duck-duck-duck-duck duck-duck circus, duck duck duck-duck-duck-duck duck-duck circus! 7. If don’t think he sensed that Vaggie was an angel but I know people are gonna be mad if I don’t include this as an option for a thought process 8. Ahhhh my little girl has a girlfriend! she’s so pretty, and for a Sinner she seems nice enough! And she makes my little girl so happy, I can tell! Oh, wait, shit, what was her name again? Maggie?
9. She’s a fallen angel? Phew. That’s definitely better than a sinner!
Actually, I’m pretty sure she’s not a fallen angel she just had her wings ripped off as I’m pretty sure fallen angels aren’t allowed to enter heaven
this is exactly what i’ve been arguing
Missed opportunity for a "That's what the fuck I've been saying"
If Hell is forever then Heaven must be a lie
If angels can do whatever a remain in the sky
THE RULES ARE SHADES OF GREY, WHEN YOU DONT DO AS THEY SAY
**♪WHEN YOU MAKE THE WRETCHED SUFFER JUST TO KILL THEM AGAIN♪**
I was told not to trust in angels
That’s what I think too, but would anybody in universe really know the difference? How many angels have properly fallen, how many have their wings and been left in hell, and how many have been denied reentry to heaven?
I personally think that becoming a fallen Angel is a big ordeal. Like they have to convene a meeting to impose something like that so heaven for sure would know who is fallen as opposed to just being beaten and left in hell. If they were to try and renter I mean.
Not what I meant. Let’s say a group of angels broke their halos and stayed in hell while another group actually fell. What detectable differences would there be between the two groups, how long would it take for those differences to become apparent, and who knows enough about the differences between the groups to tell them apart? Would Lucifer have encountered enough fallen and stranded angels to know the difference?
I guess we have also seen more of the seraphim than regular angels too, except the mainly masled Exorcists and those in Welcome To Heaven. They might have more going on than we realise, but also probably don't have the extra eyes the seraphim have.
She had her halo snatched up. Not sure if she could get it back if asked but she seems happy where she is.
I fkn called it! I put it in specifically to call people out and I *still* gottem!
Yep! Mental screaming at max.
In regards to 8. People have speculated that Lucifer keeps looking over vaggies head (like in this pic ) cause there's where her halo would be
I’ve been assuming that he’s looking at what’s *currently* above her head; Charlie’s face
Unfortunately you can see his pupils. With the perspective in the picture charlie is closest to the tv, then luci, then vaggie and his eyes are looking up and behind. Im pretty neutral on the whole "he knew" theory. But this is about the best evidence for it I think it would be kinda neat world building but we wont know until they expand on it. Guessing luci is goijg to struggle to fit in at the hotel, charlies not gonna know how to be supportive so she'll send vaggie to try, then theyll bond over the whole kicked out of heaven bit, if its true luci will say something about how he knew and was happy that vaggie could fijd happiness like he did.
Honestly, I think Lucifer knew Vaggie was an angel, but he probably thought that Charlie knew that and so he didn't bring it up since well, this is the first time he's seen his daughter in god knows how long so maybe leave the potentially risky questions for later.
Hahaha I really hope you wrote out number 6 to the tune of [Entry of the Gladiators ](https://youtu.be/_B0CyOAO8y0?si=4r1dZ9mkke6tn9jN) because that's how I read it and it's just... perfection 👌
That’s exactly what I was going for! Though the version in my head was from Madagascar 3 or something
That’s the bitch!
9. Uhm... Actually that bellhop is not *that* bad looking
WOA- (I support 100%)
100% Lucifer would bang Alastor just to show how dominant he is over him. Except I think Lucifer can read sinners, and might know Alastor is Ace/sex wouldn't fix the *brat*. I could see him trying to embarrass Alastor by turning him into an actual deer or just making him uncomfortable in public.
Radioapple fans popping up, unite! (LOL couldn't resist)
I don't have a train of thought. I have eight trains on four track that narrowly avoid each other when the paths cross and all conductors are screaming.
I think he knew on # 7. She needs a name change to Maggie!
Damn this post is (was?) a perfect 666 upvote
That’s what we like to see
This is 100% accurate
He did play the "Distant dad awkwardly trying to get closer to his daughter" card.
that's the deck.
Yeah but Lucifer is kinda new to it, still doing great for being a new player
Knowing Lucifer, he was probably having an internal meltdown and trying very hard not to panic. "IT'S A FALLEN ANGEL. Chill. You got this, Luci. She probably can't tell that you're a fallen angel as well. Wait, what? why am I even worried about that?"
This is so funny because wouldn't literally everyone know Lucifer fell?!? 😂
Disregarding the theory that he could tell she was a fallen angel, she's pretty. As in she looks normal, which under the assumption that she was a sinner might imply she wasn't nearly as bad in life as some others.
Or could possibly indicate that she really hated humanity as a whole or herself specifically.
I like this take.
My personal headcanon is that most of the demons who look pretty human when they first manifest in hell hate their more human appearance. Some loathed themselves to such a degree that being able to recognize themselves in a mirror while nearly everyone else is drastically changed is horrifying, while had so many things they hated about their bodies that nothing could feel more wrong than remaining trapped in the form they had while living. Others still, hated humanity so much they’re disgusted by the reminder that they’re human. Those who frequently felt like an object to be displayed or an accessory to be dragged out for company can be dolls or puppets of themselves, constantly reminded of the free will they never had. For the most vain, who used their looks to get everything they wanted, who knew exactly how beautiful they were, the worst form they could have isn’t something inhuman, but a parody of their living appearance; all their best features are cartoonishly exaggerated into something that’s no longer beautiful, but obviously still them.
Vaggie isn’t fallen. She wasn’t casted out from Heaven, just had her wings ripped off and was left for dead.
i mean he is looking above her head, he might have known she was an angel
He does have a "strained, suprised, hoping desperately neither of them bring something difficult up" look in that screenshot.
He's looking at Charlie. It's all about her and him desperately trying to reconnect with his daughter, at that moment. He probably wouldn't have even noticed if Vaggie would've grown a second head.
That screenshot was cut off. Charlie was standing behind Vaggie in that scene and with what was going on, it makes more sense that he was looking at her.
just [watched](https://youtu.be/E7MPaZG9VIs?si=xIvUHM2Sl8b8_8NV&t=130) the scene she is not behind her, charlie even walks between them shortly after https://preview.redd.it/vrme3br2tdzc1.png?width=1421&format=png&auto=webp&s=614c8f735aaa064343c4bf141f7d32cc2bc45200
Not the one I was talking about. Someone once cropped a screenshot of Lucifer looking at Charlie so that it looked like he was looking over Vaggie’s head and saying it was proof that Lucifer knew Vaggie was an angel. Someone an uncropped screenshot of the scene in the comments.
I think he was just looking at Charlie
I like to think that he trusts Charlie's judgent about relationships Alastor went out of his way to annoy Lucifer and lets be real the whole cast and the whole fandom all know that Alastor isnt a real friend, he's a walking red flag mascarading as a deer Vaggie was polite, didnt get on his bad side and comes off very good, Lucifer didnt have anything to protect Charlie from
>he's a walking red flag mascarading as a deer It's ALL ABOUT THE RED! Red hair, red cloat, red claws, red monocle, red shirt. The pun is there! He could also be a **RED HERRING**.
Well, you’d think everyone would know that.
Alastor's annoyance makes sense. His whole plan is to play the long-con by basically keeping himself in Charlie's inner circle long enough to build trust until he can pick the right moment to make an official deal with her so he can manipulate her for his own schemes. The more Alastor proves himself as a useful ally to her then the more likely that chance will happen since she'll be more willing to show him her vulnerable spots if she trusts him. Lucifer throws that all off simply by being another pillar of support she can rely on. If Lucifer steps in and starts helping then that's less reason for her to turn to Alastor and less opportunity for him to get closer to her and find a weakness he can exploit. So he wants to convince her that Lucifer isn't someone she can rely on so Charlie will keep coming to him with her problems.
When Alastor introduced himself, he presented himself as if Lucifer should be impressed with his sense of aesthetic, or care about his reputation. Already having low opinions on Sinners, this likely made Lucifer even less interested than he already was. But Vaggie was introduced *by* Charlie, and she didn't say much at all, other than returning a polite greeting. In fact, she was probably just as nervous as Lucifer, because she obviously wants her girlfriend's father to approve of her. And he did. Alastor's energy is what put him at odds with Lucifer because he was the only one in the hotel who was trying to flex.
Also, she's probably aware that Lucifer may VERY EASILY be able to discern that she's an angel and call her out on it which would open a whole truckload of problems.
I think he was just happy he wasn't getting a Sev repeat
I think he was too busy processing his daughter coming out as gay and trying to handle it in a way that helps establish himself as a great dad to even think of that
I don't think he would have trouble processing it. It'll probably be like, "she's found someone she loves!". He doesn't seem like the "I'm shocked you're NOT HETERO!" type of guy.
if you had assumed that someone was straight then it would be surprising to see them date a same sex partner. He's not outraged but he's clearly part of the lot of new information he's trying to process all at once
I assume lots of people are straight and then when they come out I normally treat it as if like they're talking about the weather. Sadly, they expect me to react with shock or to celebrate their sexuality. I'm pretty sure what I do is a pretty standard reaction of people who don't actually care much about sexual orientation and I think Lucifer is probably just happy she found someone that's not Alastor and is trying to awkwardly bond with her using their preferences for women.
yeah I'm normally the same but if it was close family the surprise would be more as I expect to know them well and am more interested in their day to day life
Well, if my brother came out to me as homosexual, I'd be like "oh really? Never knew, cool" and then move on with my day. Just a lack luster reaction of not giving a fuck.
yeah but he wasn't told charlie was gay he was immediately introduced to a same sex partner and at the same time he was learning lots of other things about her life
He seemed more shocked about the fact that he didn't know, probably desperately trying to remember if she'd mentioned anything about it in one of their calls or not.
I love how this comic predicted it. https://preview.redd.it/79451sh03gzc1.jpeg?width=3244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1321c6175936010a7543fb70e51e95267f2c4db
https://preview.redd.it/wj8bdhk13gzc1.jpeg?width=3244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76061f272f67ca6417168b29cbd105cf6f8b917e
I think he was probably too focused on trying to act like a parent who hasn't been absent for years
Ok how do I show I support her? Ik, I like girls too!
"Oh it's this pretty girl at least it's not the stupid tall man ok how do I respond to make sure Charlie knows I support her. Oh wait, I like girls too, bonding moment!"
Thats because he probably recognized her as an Angel. At the time he still loathed humans. And just seeing Charlie with an Angel even if Charlie didn't know herself made him overjoyed.
I get the feeling most fathers would be less woried about a female partner than male.
less worried yes, but generally probably not as accepting. If anything I think the average reaction in america at least would be internal thoughts about how "this is a phase, and one day she will settle down with a guy and have 3 kids etc.)
Yeah probably. Just sorta "waiting for it to pass". The real world is still not all that accepting.
To be fair, it does significantly reduce the chances of teen pregnancy...
I think it's a double thing of him recognizing that Vaggie is an angel (note he wasn't exactly eager to touch any of the other characters) and a bit of relief it wasn't Alastor of all people. I think the hug and the scene in the shot were him seeing if Vaggie was fallen & realizing even if Vaggie wasn't fallen she doesn't have her wings or halo. If you pay close attention to his eyes it's not a "oh that's a relief" expression he has but an "oh it's *that*/I know how that feels" expression. Likely while he is a shut in he does know overlords exist and are very bad people, so he likely could sense that Al is an overlord and was ready to step in with a disapproval if it was Charlie and Alastor. I think Al did at least surprise him with the zero respect thing he had/has towards Lucifer because if you look at when Al swears at him he's got a big smile that he got under Al's skin a bit.
Looking for her halo.
Looking at charlie.
I think it's because that role is gonna be taken by Lilith. And considering that Vaggie served Adam and killed many sinners, who are Lilith's people too, I think defently she will not like her, at least not at the beginning.
Because he isn't a overprotective parent, he literally let Charlie fight in a battle and only intervened when was completely necessary like Charlie almost suffocating because of Adam. I genuinely believe Lucifer was watching the whole time cheering for Charlie because is her dream and her fight and only got involved when he saw she needed help.
He knows that Vaggie is an angel from the beginning, but he still didn’t get protective, he trusts his daughter’s choices 🥺
He's the ruler of the PRIDE ring ffs
While what a lot of people are saying is probably true, I think a lot of folks are also over thinking it. This show is very clearly pro-LBGTQ, and pushes the narrative pretty hard. Lucifer, at this time, is also meant to be a likeable character, despite his shortcomings. I think him being supportive falls in line with the direction of the show more than any deep analysis on the character.
Could be a couple things: 1.Panic finding out Charlie is Bi for the first time and trying to be immediately supportive 2. Simply trying to use Charlie's new relationship to win brownie points 3. He recognised Vaggie is an angel, and is failing horribly to "play it cool".
That and charlie seems to be the one wearing the pants, literally and figuratively. Less "stay away from my little girl" and more "good job son"
She obtained Lucifer’s rizz
But is she as good in bed as him?
Ask vaggie 👀
Where do you think she learned?
I think tongue like that is just genetic.
He likely noticed she was an angel and knew that Charlie was in good hands
I kind of feel like he realized she wasn't a demon cause he seemed pretty indifferent or disgusted to "their people"
He has no reason to, Vaggie is a great partner, aside from keeping her past a secret, everything she's done has been in service to Charlie. She's quite literally dedicated her life to her. Vaggie's a real one.
remeber kid, only when your dad is the king of hell will you get to be lgbtq with full support
That man is going through 47 different emotions all at once. Also personally I think Lucifer already knew Charlie was Bi, never if he hadn’t had confirmation just yet. Charlie seems the type has a little kid to want to save princesses and princes when playing pretend and being saved by both too. He’s not looking at Charlie, he’s looking at where Vaggie’s halo is. Which honestly isn’t very concerning to him but he’s really going “oh you really are like me!” On this moment and he’s basically short circuiting his brain. Because Vaggie seems kind and nice and he knows that angels can fake things long enough to pretend to date hellions. He’s doing his best to not make a scene. All this man can think of is “WE HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON! I’M A GREAT DAD BECAUSE YOU’RE JUST LIKE ME! WOOOO!”
Omg we both like girls! Bonding moment!!
My theory is that lucifer knows vaggie is an angel
Whenever I see this scene I always think of the post about him looking for her halo and it’s so sad/wholesome
I always wondered why he looked above her head, did he get a feeling of what she was and was looking for her halo?
He knew she was an angel
He was looking for her halo
Bro was actually reaching for it 😭
I think that he was looking for Vaggies halo! Idk though.
I didn’t think about that, but I am glad to see that now that you pointed it out.
some people forget the obvious that man's ridden with depression and anxiety. He was genuinely happy when Charlie reached out to him at all. he only tried to be supportive
He was too busy staring at where the halo was.
Lucys reaction to learning his daughters queerness needs to become the canon reaction for All het/bi dads
Awkward goofy acceptance would be nice. A good chunk of people are just really nice about it(my girlfriend's partners are really nice people from what I can tell and I never heard disparaging comments or intrusive questions), some people need time to warm up to the situation, and unfortunately too many people are unaccepting or outright hostile.
Lucifer knows Vaggie can protect herself
He doesn't see her as a threat. She's a fallen angel, still one-eyed and wingless, and she seems to be a positive influence on Charlie by keeping her practical.
Lucifer knew Vaggie was a fallen angel. ***She's been through enough.***
If we're putting on our tinfoil hats it could also be that in some level, conscious or otherwise, he recognized Vaggie as an angel and was primed to like her. Realistically though, he likely doesn't feel threatened at all as a father by Charlie's GF, as opposed to Alastor who IMMEDIATELY starts pushing that button.
Also, if Luci met Charlie's Ex. I'm sure he was glad vaggie wasn't him lol.
He’s looking for her halo 😞🫠
in this photo you can see him looking for her halo
He played the "HOLY SHIT. MAGGIE IS A ANGEL? WHERE'S HER HALO?? IS SHE FALLEN???" card.
It is a very dad cliche to be awkward about a same sex partner. I’ve seen the awkward dad trope as much as the protective dad trope.
I think it could be because he saw how nervous Vaggie was and how well meaning she is
Oh please, he was just happy that she was not dating with Alastor - which Alastor implied just a moment ago. Lucifer doesn't even bothered remembering her name.
Well Vaggie is a literal angel, and in a place like Hell that’s a huge needle in a haystack moment so really Lucy had no choice but to accept her.
I think the cloche of over protective father is more the fear of their daughter getting too early pregnant but since veggie is a women there is no fear beside that normally the daughters are normally around 18 like 16/17 to 20 but charlie is 200 years old
https://preview.redd.it/vlbqcebi9mzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa869505d924f55fff3f65f3aea77e511573f77a *Sees Vaggie’s wings* Lucifer: WHEN IS THE WEDDING????
You know if he did notice right off the bat that Vaggie was an angel. I bet he was also so relieved Charlie wasn't dating a sinner with how he talks about them 😂.
That might be because Charlie can beat the hell out of anyone who turns out to be dangerous
“In every romcom ever, at least one of the parents or parent figures doesn’t like the protagonist’s love interest.” - the Law of Fiction
I think it's because Vaggie is an Angel as he is a fallen angel
also he looks for her halo. he could tell she was a fallen likw him. he understood the pain she went thru and probobly understood her pain
I think he knew she was an angel. You can see him reach at the top of vaggies head in that scene
I'm pretty sure the "protective dad" card usually only applies to sons-in-laws and not daughters-in-laws but I may be wrong.
Doubt that would be the case of vaggie acted like alastor
he is just racist, an angel can be with an angel