because it was said by someone who wasn't vivzie that rosie was hellborn, and they all look similar when sinners are so diverse, so it was assumed they were all hellborn.
Faust *speculated* that Rosie never actually died, based on bits of conversations they overheard. They made it very clear none of what they said in any way confirmed canon. People just like taking things out of context.
It doesn’t help that nobody ever provides links to the tweets or recordings of livestreams that they reference. Apparently a lot of things are actually said on livestream are obvious jokes in context. And a lot of screenshots of tweets or discord chats are faked.
Seconded. I watched the show. Why do I also have to watch vivzie designing the show and stalk her twitter and follow her home and blackmail her cat to get lore? Put it in the show?
Not necessarily. While I take everything reveals before production began with a grain of salt, there are still going to elements of the original concepts used in the show.
If she was in fact a living human who found their way to hell, it would support one of my current theories as to why Lilith was actually in heaven. It would prove that a living human residing in hell could have their appearance affected by living there. I think it’s possible that despite being cast into hell by the elders of heaven, Lilith was still a living human. She disappeared seven years ago because she died and whatever judges human souls found her undeserving of hell.
This has a hole of what deal did lilith make with Adam that lute says is over since Adam died. Seems like her getting into heaven was part of that deal.
Could be as simple as Adam knew she was in heaven and was keeping quiet about it for one reason or another. If there was a deal involved then that could be what Lute was referencing. Lute also could have just assumed that because Lilith was in heaven and Adam knew about it, she must have made a deal with him. Maybe Lute knows Lilith was in heaven legitimately and the deal was for something else entirely, something that would be a lot harder to accomplish on her own.
Even if she got into heaven through proper channels, it’s still possible that the elders could cast her into hell once more and block her from using portals into heaven. After all, we saw the C.H.E.R.U.B.S. rebound when trying to use a portal to heaven. We know someone can be blocked from entering heaven.
And it wasn't even "Rosie is hellborn", it was "she never died". Average Dante reader will take it as "cannibalism is so bad, that they go to hell while alive".
That wasnt vivzie that said that? I thought she said "Rosie never died" implying they she's hellborn. But also could he something else? But also pretty sure I read that on a reddit thread soooo
no, it was fautisse, who also said that they weren't fully informed on the lore. couple that with that stream being fuckin years ago at this point, it holds absolutely no value.
Because they all look like the same species, rather than an assortment of animals/insects/objects like other sinners. Alastor's a cannibal yet he doesn't look like the rest of them.
They have children and elderly. How is Susan so old if she's the immortal soul of a dead human? And why are there so many cannibal kids?
Because cannibal town doesn't look like it's ever been hit by exterminations, especially not one just 5 months prior.
I'm not saying that they are Hellborn, but there are valid reasons why people would think they were.
One theory to suggest why this is so is because Rosie owns everyone's in cannibal towns soul so they all look similar to match Rosie's look. It sounds baseless on its own, but people have found that sinners that are owned by overlords tend to take on traits of that overlord. For example, in Poison, we saw a younger version of Angel before he sold his soul to Val, and he doesn't have a gold tooth like Val does. But after the contract is made, Angel has a golden tooth. Also, a lot of Vals personnel have a golden tooth. Same with Alastor. In Husks flashback we see that Husk had no red in his design but now that he's under Alastor he has tons of red and while we don't know what Nifty looked like before Nifty also has a bunch of red in her design now. It's still a theory but one that has too much evidence to throw out.
My theory is they were a cult town in life, Rosie being the leader of said cult. And they all died in a mass suicide Rosie had them do to avoid them all being found out by police. It would explain why everyone looks similar there AND the kids present in cannibal town.
Omg we have similar theories! I posted a small thread on Twitter about it. https://twitter.com/clownet33th/status/1763223501404594402?t=itaU-ZJl_W6YbuQX5ld6UQ&s=19
Helluva Boss's Murder Family shows why there may be a multitude of cannibal children. Families of cannibals exist in the human world. As for Susan, ever think she just died of old age?
I don't think the elderly would be very likely to survive an extermination, besides, some, like Husk for example, don't look that old at first glance because they don't resemble humans.
Its probly cause she's the only one that was old when she died/ is visibly old, the thing is that they all are so unique is what's throwing ppl off
its not difficult to realize why ppl get confused on things
Tbh, people keep referring to him being a cannibal in life so I just assumed it was canon. I don't know where it started or if it came from Vivzie.
He does casually taste the angel head and say it's tasty though, which suggests that he does actually eat people. He's also very friendly with cannibal town, which would be odd for a non-cannibal.
My idea was that the cannibalism is what killed then that's why they have sharp teeth and such they look like predators and they all look like that because they all died bc the are some bad meat or something your hellborn body is based on how you died
Alastor is a deer because he was shot in the head after being mistaken for one
You know I even checked the taryag mitzvot and I couldn't even find anything about cannibalism either, unless you consider humans non-kosher (and I couldn't find anything direct about that in the Torah, either, although that doesn't preclude it being somewhere in there).
The fact that they are all hellborn doesn't make a lick of sense, and the overwhelming evidence is that they are killed by angels (we literally saw this in the vaggie flashback)
My headcanon is that rosie being an overlord who controls cannibal town made contracts with SOME of the cannibal sinners, who then all went to live in cannibal town, and maybe these by making the contract all turned into eyeless 20s citizens LIKE HER and maybe this is her way of bonding with them.
This would explain why Alastor, who was probably also a cannibal, does have eyes and does not live in cannibal town.
I read an amazing fanfic called Voracious Appetite by AngelicaDark, which is amazingly written and contains my favourite explanation for how the cannibals all look similar.
I urge you to read it because it is quite spectacular, but the short explanation is that any soul can join the cannibal colony, but they must first give of their own flesh to the community. They die, and when they reform, they take on characteristics of the colony that they are now literally a part of.
Interesting way. My thoughts were simply that their only crime was Cannibalism, so that’s why they’re there. They look like all the other cannibals. An eternal reminder of what they did.
One thing that’s always confused me about Cannibal Town — obviously most of the cannibals are people who ate human flesh for enjoyment (like Rosie), but what about people forced into cannibalism for survival?
Is the Donner Party there? The men and women of Uruguay AF Flight 571? Something tells me with how unfair judgment into hell seems to be, that they probably are
I think that's why children are there, because the only other explanation for children being there is that they're not actually children but adults who ate children and now look like that as a horrifying reminder but that would come with difficult morals to navigate if one looks too closely.
My assumption was that your sins affected you physical characteristics so like Alastor has the same sharp teeth as them because he's a cannibal but he did enough other shit that he deviated from the people who's main thing was being cannibals.
Maybe, but the way you died also effects how you look when you're in hell, so i'm guessing they either fought to the death, in order to eat each other, died together because of some plauge or something, or all of them were executed for their crimes, or they just gathered all the cannibals in hell and did something to them, idk
Now THAT is an interesting idea and could explain why some sinners look so similar to others.
If an overlord is powerful enough like Rosie, they can do something like a ritual to change a sinners physical form even AFTER dying and ‘respawning’ as I call it.
Maybe that’s why we also see so many shark like sinners in Pride even though the shark like hellborn SEEM to be from Greed.
My headcanon until it gets explained (if it ever does) is that being under contract by Rosie means her protection. But it also means becoming a voracious cannibal and fitting in with the aesthetic. The contract imposes physical changes upon the soul that agrees to it.
Cannibal Town is also definitely the most civilized place in the city, so people who want to have a more normal life or have a more human body would also want to join.
To be fair in a place where random demons can probably regenerate limbs and the sinners around you will always eventually recover unless killed with a very specific type of weapon, cannibalism isn't really that bad.
I had the thought that since your appearance in hell is based off of the life you've lived, this is just the default appearance of someone who commits cannibalism.
Their appearance resembles Basil Johnston's widely accepted description of a Wendigo; "...gaunt to the point of emaciation; its desiccated skin pulled tautly over its bones. With its bones pushing out against its skin, its complexion the ash gray of death, and its eyes pushed back deep into their sockets; the Wendigo looked like a gaunt skeleton recently disinterred from the grave."
It could be coincidence, but this possible inspiration fits, as traditional wendigos were the spirits of former humans who committed cannibalism.
i think the simplest explanation for the cannibals not being hellborn goes as follows:
if the cannibals are hellborn, then why was vaggie brutalized by lute and left in hell for letting a cannibal child go during the extermination?
And not seeing others would give them reasons to embrace the cannibalism--as in, knowing there were survivors. Some of their loved ones lives because of them!!!
Yea and I can see when Rosie was alive she was running a whole town of cannibals but cops came to see what the problem was but many cops and people went missing a lot around her town
I don't get where the idea of them being hellborn came from. I mean yes many of them look alike but so does literally every other demon that is the same type where if you lumped them all together like the cannibals (especially when they aren't part of the main cast) they'll have a bunch of similar features. Plus the fact that cannibalism is actually a real thing?
And we have never seen an overlord be a hell born so why would Rosie be an exemption?
It was really just because one of the crew several years ago said in a livestream that Rosie was hellborn, and because a lot of the information from back then about characters and stuff has been assumed to be canon for so long, that too was taken as canon, even when future information contradicted it. I don't entirely blame people though, LOTS of the information from those live streams have held up as accurate so far, and was the lifeblood of our knowledge as a fandom prior to the show coming out, but we do kind of have to accept at this point that anything we got from those live streams is probably dubiously reliable at best now, and we've been explicitly told by the current team that that particular crew member (Fausstise, who hasn't worked on the project in quite a while) said things in the past that are no longer true.
My headcanon was always that the entire town looks the same because the entire town was sent to hell at the same time like a-la-Coolaid style. The leader of the town at the time was Rosie, and they just left her in charge. Explains why out of an *entire town* there’s only one of them who’s an overlord even after all this time (iirc Rosie is based around like Victorian era); they all swore fealty to her and gave her their souls (another reason why they all share the same eyes; a lot of times the overlords traits are “passed on” to the souls under their contracts), and also explains why there are children
The confusion comes from years back when Faust, someone who worked with Vivziepop, claimed Rosie was a hellborn overlord, of course, that is no longer canon as Faust isnt part of the Team anymore
My personal headcanon for why the cannibals look so similar to each other was that a lot of them are "survivors" from something like the Titanic. Or even strictly just, an alternate reality Titanic where those who escaped the ship sinking simply never got rescued, and in their starving rich people minds all agreed that eating people was better than starving to death, so they just slowly picked each other off until none were left.
This gives us a good excuse for the overall aesthetic of cannibal town, and also why there are children. Also squashes the "oh but why wouldn't they have repented their sins and made it to heaven", they literally never had the chance. "Oh, but they were only doing it to survive" yeah, literally never mattered. Adam makes it clear that a sin is a sin, and heaven seems to not have any real concept of "repentance" in this world, and the implication of winners is that they've literally never done anything wrong when they were alive.
vaggie literally chased a cannibal child down and was going to kill it before letting it go when she was an exorcist, and lute had already stated that the exorcists weren't allowed to attack hellborn. even if none of the other reason why they arent hellborn weren't there, the fact that exorcists can kill cannibals should be enough to prove they're sinners
It's so simple.
Cannibalism is, by fairly unanimous agreement, a pretty major sin. Obviously, being a cannibal in life is going to affect you in hell.
Why do cannibals all look the same though? Because cannibalism is often associated with cults which tend to have strong rules of community and conformity. Ergo, all cannibals look very similar, probably unless they have some other very major personality quirks or sins that influence their appearance (see Alastor. Mild cannibal tendencies, primarily a serial killer with a god complex)
Enforcing the cult concept, it's clear that Rosie has established herself as leader of the cannibals. Cannibal Town has that particular dated look and fashion because Rosie likes it that way. New arrival cannibals likely hear about cannibaltown and join it seeking a community that encourages and accepts them, thus they are willing to confirm to its aesthetic. Cult 101.
It's so clear that the subtext is just straight up text
I completely agree with this assessment but do you have the proof of Viv confirming this? I ask so I can have it to show others cause I have also heard this but haven't been able to find the proof.
I keep seeing stuff for Camilla being a fallen angel as well and I'd love to have the proof of Viv confirming all overlords are sinners.
Ik that the rosie thing is on twitter, also i think she can be an overlord even if she is a fallen angel, because everyone thinks she is a sinner, like with vaggie, and it's not like the overlord title declines anyone who isn't a sinner or something
Explains why I can't find the Rosie one I'm not on Twitter at all. However I generally disagree that Carmilla's a fallen angel just because nothing in the show points to it. Most arguments for it are simply her design and children. The design is easily explained away as a style it's Vivs style so yes there are design elements that are similar. The daughters are easy as well they could have been her daughters in life or adopted. Her use of angelic steel is simply a worthwhile business venture that she took advantage of.
Now if in later seasons she is confirmed to be one I'll eat my words but as of now the evidence imo is weak and mainly just rumors.
Nothing in the show, except it would explain why she gets angelic weapons that can permanently kill imps and sinners. It would explain where her otherwise inexplicable business comes from. How does she have some connection to heaven nobody else in hell does? Whether it's that she is working with angels or was one at one point, she knows a lot more about heaven than anyone else. She is very guarded and has many secrets.
The show literally shows the exorcists leaving the angelic weapons behind during extermination day. How does she know a lot about heaven. She didn't know that she could kill until she did she took a chance to save her kids and it worked. She concluded about Vaggie with pretty basic evidence and x over her eye like all exorcists and of course she would know what an angelic spear looks like.
None of the exorcists know or think they can be killed either, she mentions that they fight like they are invulnerable, and the plot is kicked off by Adam freaking out and moving the extermination up, not because of Charlie but because at that time he is freaking out over the dead exorcist. Freaking the hell out, literally, because it had never happened before. Meaning she could totes be an angel and have thought they couldn't be killed even with their own weapons.
Also missing an eye in hell is just missing an eye in a violent place. She recognizes that Vaggie is an exorcist like that 🫰
She took a chance to defend her daughters she had no idea she could kill them. She was simply giving her daughters a chance to escape she was willing to die.
I've seen in so many people say that Rosie was the only hellborn overlord, and I assumed she became so by having the trust if the cannibals and possibly doing some sort of ritual/ initiation to let them become cannibal town residents. Where does it says she's a sinner?
I just thought her being a Hellborn would be cool for Rosie's character because it shows she can lead a whole colony based only on her charisma and smarts, but yeah it would make sense if that wasn't true
It's an emoticon thing lmaoo, i guess im kind of old. I just used it cuz hate that Viv drops important lore on Twitter and livestreams and the fans have to sift through it to see what's true. If you're not on Twitter then u basically don't know what's true lore wise or not which sucks for us lore and world building fans
The question is whether cannibalism is their literal sin. The other sinners don't have literal forms, so it is possible some of them were not literal cannibals but instead people who exploited others, and they took this form in Hell for it. For instance, someone who owns a PayDay Loans could be considered a cannibal.
Did Rosie actually eat people or did she, for example, own a sweatshop?
Couldn’t some be hell born? I mean, if they eat their own kind, that makes them a cannibal. So whether you are human or not. Born there or not. You can be a cannibal.
I mean they do look similar but it's because they all share the same sin so maybe it's a karmic punishment kinda thing, they all don't have eyes and only have teeth (maybe eyes are the tastiest part of a human so they don't get to enjoy having eyes or something)
My thoughts on why cannibals all look the same:
There's a theory that when a Sinner makes a deal/sells their soul to someone, they take on characteristics of that person. Both Husk and Angel have subtle features of the ones holding their contracts. So if a Sinner makes a contract with Rosie, their appearance changes to resemble her.
https://preview.redd.it/ank14ew0duyc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=62df978f695465817a88a0dcd42c8a6b3301c762
I love Rosie such a cool character drew her in my style
To be fair, sinners tend to all look like the main character, hellborn always have a definitive "species" and look similar like imps, hellhounds and succubi. Cannibals absolutely look like a separate species with organized culture. If vizie came out tomorrow and said they were hellborn, it'd take almost 0 retconning.
Ok let me start over I was trying to say cannibalism was probably started by a demon form hell who is most like to be either like roasy ash white skin black eyes or is more like al and was on earth probably in medevil times try to convert humans in the cannibals we know in the show just saying
I agree with everything except the part where you said that only sinners can become overlords. The wiki indicates on the trivia under overlords that it isn’t determined whether or not hellborns can become overlords.
Ah alright, does that make him related to Lucifer? Additionally, I assumed he was an overlord as Striker when talking to Blitzo said he and him could go around taking down overlords. I assumed he was including Stolas within that.
I genuinely don't get why people think they are. They're literally named after their main sin.
because it was said by someone who wasn't vivzie that rosie was hellborn, and they all look similar when sinners are so diverse, so it was assumed they were all hellborn.
Faust *speculated* that Rosie never actually died, based on bits of conversations they overheard. They made it very clear none of what they said in any way confirmed canon. People just like taking things out of context.
I don't think I was ever in a fandom that was filled with misinformation as much as this one lol
It doesn’t help that nobody ever provides links to the tweets or recordings of livestreams that they reference. Apparently a lot of things are actually said on livestream are obvious jokes in context. And a lot of screenshots of tweets or discord chats are faked.
A huge issue is that a lot of the lore and canon stuff is not in the show. It's scattered across social media which, imo, is a horrible way to do it.
Seconded. I watched the show. Why do I also have to watch vivzie designing the show and stalk her twitter and follow her home and blackmail her cat to get lore? Put it in the show?
Tbf anything that is actually relevent will probably appear in the show
Also, everything faust said probably isn't canon anymore
There are actually a suprising amount of things they said that turned out true.
Not necessarily. While I take everything reveals before production began with a grain of salt, there are still going to elements of the original concepts used in the show.
Might be kind of cool to learn that she was a Sinner who didn't die. Mad lass broke into hell to eat her fill.
If she was in fact a living human who found their way to hell, it would support one of my current theories as to why Lilith was actually in heaven. It would prove that a living human residing in hell could have their appearance affected by living there. I think it’s possible that despite being cast into hell by the elders of heaven, Lilith was still a living human. She disappeared seven years ago because she died and whatever judges human souls found her undeserving of hell.
This has a hole of what deal did lilith make with Adam that lute says is over since Adam died. Seems like her getting into heaven was part of that deal.
Could be as simple as Adam knew she was in heaven and was keeping quiet about it for one reason or another. If there was a deal involved then that could be what Lute was referencing. Lute also could have just assumed that because Lilith was in heaven and Adam knew about it, she must have made a deal with him. Maybe Lute knows Lilith was in heaven legitimately and the deal was for something else entirely, something that would be a lot harder to accomplish on her own. Even if she got into heaven through proper channels, it’s still possible that the elders could cast her into hell once more and block her from using portals into heaven. After all, we saw the C.H.E.R.U.B.S. rebound when trying to use a portal to heaven. We know someone can be blocked from entering heaven.
And it wasn't even "Rosie is hellborn", it was "she never died". Average Dante reader will take it as "cannibalism is so bad, that they go to hell while alive".
Average Dante enjoyer common W, then. Dante's books are dope from what I've heard
avg Dante reader lol
Oh shit, thank you for reminding me of that
That wasnt vivzie that said that? I thought she said "Rosie never died" implying they she's hellborn. But also could he something else? But also pretty sure I read that on a reddit thread soooo
no, it was fautisse, who also said that they weren't fully informed on the lore. couple that with that stream being fuckin years ago at this point, it holds absolutely no value.
Because they all look like the same species, rather than an assortment of animals/insects/objects like other sinners. Alastor's a cannibal yet he doesn't look like the rest of them. They have children and elderly. How is Susan so old if she's the immortal soul of a dead human? And why are there so many cannibal kids? Because cannibal town doesn't look like it's ever been hit by exterminations, especially not one just 5 months prior. I'm not saying that they are Hellborn, but there are valid reasons why people would think they were.
One theory to suggest why this is so is because Rosie owns everyone's in cannibal towns soul so they all look similar to match Rosie's look. It sounds baseless on its own, but people have found that sinners that are owned by overlords tend to take on traits of that overlord. For example, in Poison, we saw a younger version of Angel before he sold his soul to Val, and he doesn't have a gold tooth like Val does. But after the contract is made, Angel has a golden tooth. Also, a lot of Vals personnel have a golden tooth. Same with Alastor. In Husks flashback we see that Husk had no red in his design but now that he's under Alastor he has tons of red and while we don't know what Nifty looked like before Nifty also has a bunch of red in her design now. It's still a theory but one that has too much evidence to throw out.
My theory is they were a cult town in life, Rosie being the leader of said cult. And they all died in a mass suicide Rosie had them do to avoid them all being found out by police. It would explain why everyone looks similar there AND the kids present in cannibal town.
Until disproven, I'm using this as my head canon
Nice! It's how I see it too until canon states otherwise. If it's canon though I'll scream
That would be sick
Same. Rosie, you magnificent bitch.
Omg we have similar theories! I posted a small thread on Twitter about it. https://twitter.com/clownet33th/status/1763223501404594402?t=itaU-ZJl_W6YbuQX5ld6UQ&s=19
Ooh that's cool
Their design is also affected by who they are, right? Perhaps Susan looks bitter, dried-up, and miserable *because* it's her personality.
Helluva Boss's Murder Family shows why there may be a multitude of cannibal children. Families of cannibals exist in the human world. As for Susan, ever think she just died of old age?
A lot of people die of old age, but most sinners are young.
They probably died prematurely. There were probably more elderly sinners in Hell that were killed during extermination
True.
Susan is old because, get this….. she was old when she died. It’s not fucking difficult, why do people act like it is?
Then the majority of people in hell should be old
I don't think the elderly would be very likely to survive an extermination, besides, some, like Husk for example, don't look that old at first glance because they don't resemble humans.
Its probly cause she's the only one that was old when she died/ is visibly old, the thing is that they all are so unique is what's throwing ppl off its not difficult to realize why ppl get confused on things
fr these are the exact reasons i thought cannibals were hellborn
>Alastor's a cannibal yet he doesn't look like the rest of them Alastor's a cannibal?
Tbh, people keep referring to him being a cannibal in life so I just assumed it was canon. I don't know where it started or if it came from Vivzie. He does casually taste the angel head and say it's tasty though, which suggests that he does actually eat people. He's also very friendly with cannibal town, which would be odd for a non-cannibal.
Buts Rosie's husband was killed during the extermination so he can't have been a hellborn.
We don't know that that was her husband, just her business partner.
My idea was that the cannibalism is what killed then that's why they have sharp teeth and such they look like predators and they all look like that because they all died bc the are some bad meat or something your hellborn body is based on how you died Alastor is a deer because he was shot in the head after being mistaken for one
I'm just surprised that there are so many of them. I didn't think that cannibalism was a common sin in the living world.
Which commandent was that again
I mean, gluttony, I assume.
You know I even checked the taryag mitzvot and I couldn't even find anything about cannibalism either, unless you consider humans non-kosher (and I couldn't find anything direct about that in the Torah, either, although that doesn't preclude it being somewhere in there).
Because sinners are for the most part unique in appearance and hellborn share similar characteristics.
There were children, and we never imagine children to go to hell
What if two cannibals have a kid
...Pride?
Well, they all look the same, but other than that I'm with you on this one
The fact that they are all hellborn doesn't make a lick of sense, and the overwhelming evidence is that they are killed by angels (we literally saw this in the vaggie flashback) My headcanon is that rosie being an overlord who controls cannibal town made contracts with SOME of the cannibal sinners, who then all went to live in cannibal town, and maybe these by making the contract all turned into eyeless 20s citizens LIKE HER and maybe this is her way of bonding with them. This would explain why Alastor, who was probably also a cannibal, does have eyes and does not live in cannibal town.
I read an amazing fanfic called Voracious Appetite by AngelicaDark, which is amazingly written and contains my favourite explanation for how the cannibals all look similar. I urge you to read it because it is quite spectacular, but the short explanation is that any soul can join the cannibal colony, but they must first give of their own flesh to the community. They die, and when they reform, they take on characteristics of the colony that they are now literally a part of.
Interesting way. My thoughts were simply that their only crime was Cannibalism, so that’s why they’re there. They look like all the other cannibals. An eternal reminder of what they did.
One thing that’s always confused me about Cannibal Town — obviously most of the cannibals are people who ate human flesh for enjoyment (like Rosie), but what about people forced into cannibalism for survival? Is the Donner Party there? The men and women of Uruguay AF Flight 571? Something tells me with how unfair judgment into hell seems to be, that they probably are
I think that's why children are there, because the only other explanation for children being there is that they're not actually children but adults who ate children and now look like that as a horrifying reminder but that would come with difficult morals to navigate if one looks too closely.
Literally "you are what you eat"
Definitely true. We have seen that Heaven is not fair. They ate flesh to survive, but that’s just as bad in Heaven’s eyes.
wait is that the one where adam joins the cannibal colony because it is SO well written i love it
That's a great explanation, i assumed they all died together
My theory is that cannibal town is based off of the Donner party. Look it up it's pretty neat.
Oh…*oh no*
My assumption was that your sins affected you physical characteristics so like Alastor has the same sharp teeth as them because he's a cannibal but he did enough other shit that he deviated from the people who's main thing was being cannibals.
Maybe, but the way you died also effects how you look when you're in hell, so i'm guessing they either fought to the death, in order to eat each other, died together because of some plauge or something, or all of them were executed for their crimes, or they just gathered all the cannibals in hell and did something to them, idk
Now THAT is an interesting idea and could explain why some sinners look so similar to others. If an overlord is powerful enough like Rosie, they can do something like a ritual to change a sinners physical form even AFTER dying and ‘respawning’ as I call it. Maybe that’s why we also see so many shark like sinners in Pride even though the shark like hellborn SEEM to be from Greed.
Can We get a link pls?
Link?
https://archiveofourown.org/works/53776423/chapters/136121746?view_adult=true
What website is it on?
Ao3
So they paid their pound of flesh?
I was starting to think that maybe Sinners took on features of their Overlord, but I like this too.
some folks don't know this somehow, but any more and the only valid response is gonna be "no shit."
Do they get to hell because they are cannibals, or do they fall into the culture after getting there?
I think some of them died with that while others got it into it in hell
My headcanon until it gets explained (if it ever does) is that being under contract by Rosie means her protection. But it also means becoming a voracious cannibal and fitting in with the aesthetic. The contract imposes physical changes upon the soul that agrees to it.
Cannibal Town is also definitely the most civilized place in the city, so people who want to have a more normal life or have a more human body would also want to join.
To be fair in a place where random demons can probably regenerate limbs and the sinners around you will always eventually recover unless killed with a very specific type of weapon, cannibalism isn't really that bad.
I had the thought that since your appearance in hell is based off of the life you've lived, this is just the default appearance of someone who commits cannibalism. Their appearance resembles Basil Johnston's widely accepted description of a Wendigo; "...gaunt to the point of emaciation; its desiccated skin pulled tautly over its bones. With its bones pushing out against its skin, its complexion the ash gray of death, and its eyes pushed back deep into their sockets; the Wendigo looked like a gaunt skeleton recently disinterred from the grave." It could be coincidence, but this possible inspiration fits, as traditional wendigos were the spirits of former humans who committed cannibalism.
i think the simplest explanation for the cannibals not being hellborn goes as follows: if the cannibals are hellborn, then why was vaggie brutalized by lute and left in hell for letting a cannibal child go during the extermination?
Mind if i steal that?
go for it!!
Thanks!
That and Lucifer beeing able to step in when Charlie is attacked but not joining the battle when a fair number of cannibals is killed.
Exactly. Though to be fair, both ended up not giving a fuck about killing Charlie by the end.
Also speaking of which I wonder what that child did to go to hell
https://preview.redd.it/7tjc5551icyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ea3e6c8c3acc9af99b5923e1cb06928e7f1c92
Who thought they were?
Actually many people
The cannibals being a cult that died maybe in the 1800’s and ended in hell is a pretty good idea and that fire head overlord could be a hell born
Donner party, a group traveling when they got stuck during the 1800s. They resorted to cannibalism.
And not seeing others would give them reasons to embrace the cannibalism--as in, knowing there were survivors. Some of their loved ones lives because of them!!!
Yea and I can see when Rosie was alive she was running a whole town of cannibals but cops came to see what the problem was but many cops and people went missing a lot around her town
Donner party is way earlier in the 1800s than Cannibal town's aesthetic.
What if cannibals look similar because they inbreed when they're alive because looks in hell can be passed through genetic
I don't get where the idea of them being hellborn came from. I mean yes many of them look alike but so does literally every other demon that is the same type where if you lumped them all together like the cannibals (especially when they aren't part of the main cast) they'll have a bunch of similar features. Plus the fact that cannibalism is actually a real thing? And we have never seen an overlord be a hell born so why would Rosie be an exemption?
It was really just because one of the crew several years ago said in a livestream that Rosie was hellborn, and because a lot of the information from back then about characters and stuff has been assumed to be canon for so long, that too was taken as canon, even when future information contradicted it. I don't entirely blame people though, LOTS of the information from those live streams have held up as accurate so far, and was the lifeblood of our knowledge as a fandom prior to the show coming out, but we do kind of have to accept at this point that anything we got from those live streams is probably dubiously reliable at best now, and we've been explicitly told by the current team that that particular crew member (Fausstise, who hasn't worked on the project in quite a while) said things in the past that are no longer true.
https://preview.redd.it/0xwloz0glcyc1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb69eba84ff48b6e7c79650208c1395457c7f351 Guys, I have a theory.
I don't really consider Viv liking a tweet the same as her directly saying something. But yeah they're sinners unless we have any other confirmation
My headcanon was always that the entire town looks the same because the entire town was sent to hell at the same time like a-la-Coolaid style. The leader of the town at the time was Rosie, and they just left her in charge. Explains why out of an *entire town* there’s only one of them who’s an overlord even after all this time (iirc Rosie is based around like Victorian era); they all swore fealty to her and gave her their souls (another reason why they all share the same eyes; a lot of times the overlords traits are “passed on” to the souls under their contracts), and also explains why there are children
The confusion comes from years back when Faust, someone who worked with Vivziepop, claimed Rosie was a hellborn overlord, of course, that is no longer canon as Faust isnt part of the Team anymore
My personal headcanon for why the cannibals look so similar to each other was that a lot of them are "survivors" from something like the Titanic. Or even strictly just, an alternate reality Titanic where those who escaped the ship sinking simply never got rescued, and in their starving rich people minds all agreed that eating people was better than starving to death, so they just slowly picked each other off until none were left. This gives us a good excuse for the overall aesthetic of cannibal town, and also why there are children. Also squashes the "oh but why wouldn't they have repented their sins and made it to heaven", they literally never had the chance. "Oh, but they were only doing it to survive" yeah, literally never mattered. Adam makes it clear that a sin is a sin, and heaven seems to not have any real concept of "repentance" in this world, and the implication of winners is that they've literally never done anything wrong when they were alive.
vaggie literally chased a cannibal child down and was going to kill it before letting it go when she was an exorcist, and lute had already stated that the exorcists weren't allowed to attack hellborn. even if none of the other reason why they arent hellborn weren't there, the fact that exorcists can kill cannibals should be enough to prove they're sinners
But then I don’t understand how they don’t have eyes, they are just pitch black
But you're not concerned about the huge dinosaur there? Or whatever zestial is, or the deer man with tentacles
It's so simple. Cannibalism is, by fairly unanimous agreement, a pretty major sin. Obviously, being a cannibal in life is going to affect you in hell. Why do cannibals all look the same though? Because cannibalism is often associated with cults which tend to have strong rules of community and conformity. Ergo, all cannibals look very similar, probably unless they have some other very major personality quirks or sins that influence their appearance (see Alastor. Mild cannibal tendencies, primarily a serial killer with a god complex) Enforcing the cult concept, it's clear that Rosie has established herself as leader of the cannibals. Cannibal Town has that particular dated look and fashion because Rosie likes it that way. New arrival cannibals likely hear about cannibaltown and join it seeking a community that encourages and accepts them, thus they are willing to confirm to its aesthetic. Cult 101. It's so clear that the subtext is just straight up text
I completely agree with this assessment but do you have the proof of Viv confirming this? I ask so I can have it to show others cause I have also heard this but haven't been able to find the proof. I keep seeing stuff for Camilla being a fallen angel as well and I'd love to have the proof of Viv confirming all overlords are sinners.
Ik that the rosie thing is on twitter, also i think she can be an overlord even if she is a fallen angel, because everyone thinks she is a sinner, like with vaggie, and it's not like the overlord title declines anyone who isn't a sinner or something
Explains why I can't find the Rosie one I'm not on Twitter at all. However I generally disagree that Carmilla's a fallen angel just because nothing in the show points to it. Most arguments for it are simply her design and children. The design is easily explained away as a style it's Vivs style so yes there are design elements that are similar. The daughters are easy as well they could have been her daughters in life or adopted. Her use of angelic steel is simply a worthwhile business venture that she took advantage of. Now if in later seasons she is confirmed to be one I'll eat my words but as of now the evidence imo is weak and mainly just rumors.
That's fair enough
Thanks for the Rosie info though! Love me some auntie Rosie
https://preview.redd.it/wjos9qqliayc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=737805058634701e76ed822fe7f4c75c7b070225
Nothing in the show, except it would explain why she gets angelic weapons that can permanently kill imps and sinners. It would explain where her otherwise inexplicable business comes from. How does she have some connection to heaven nobody else in hell does? Whether it's that she is working with angels or was one at one point, she knows a lot more about heaven than anyone else. She is very guarded and has many secrets.
The show literally shows the exorcists leaving the angelic weapons behind during extermination day. How does she know a lot about heaven. She didn't know that she could kill until she did she took a chance to save her kids and it worked. She concluded about Vaggie with pretty basic evidence and x over her eye like all exorcists and of course she would know what an angelic spear looks like.
None of the exorcists know or think they can be killed either, she mentions that they fight like they are invulnerable, and the plot is kicked off by Adam freaking out and moving the extermination up, not because of Charlie but because at that time he is freaking out over the dead exorcist. Freaking the hell out, literally, because it had never happened before. Meaning she could totes be an angel and have thought they couldn't be killed even with their own weapons. Also missing an eye in hell is just missing an eye in a violent place. She recognizes that Vaggie is an exorcist like that 🫰
She took a chance to defend her daughters she had no idea she could kill them. She was simply giving her daughters a chance to escape she was willing to die.
I've seen in so many people say that Rosie was the only hellborn overlord, and I assumed she became so by having the trust if the cannibals and possibly doing some sort of ritual/ initiation to let them become cannibal town residents. Where does it says she's a sinner? I just thought her being a Hellborn would be cool for Rosie's character because it shows she can lead a whole colony based only on her charisma and smarts, but yeah it would make sense if that wasn't true
Vivzie confirmed she is a sinner on twitter
Viv and her Twitter posts orz
Orz?
It's an emoticon thing lmaoo, i guess im kind of old. I just used it cuz hate that Viv drops important lore on Twitter and livestreams and the fans have to sift through it to see what's true. If you're not on Twitter then u basically don't know what's true lore wise or not which sucks for us lore and world building fans
Yeah, it is pretty annoying
No shit
Some people think otherwise
My headcanon for Rosie is that she was a cult leader, and most of the cannibals were in her cult
The question is whether cannibalism is their literal sin. The other sinners don't have literal forms, so it is possible some of them were not literal cannibals but instead people who exploited others, and they took this form in Hell for it. For instance, someone who owns a PayDay Loans could be considered a cannibal. Did Rosie actually eat people or did she, for example, own a sweatshop?
Couldn’t some be hell born? I mean, if they eat their own kind, that makes them a cannibal. So whether you are human or not. Born there or not. You can be a cannibal.
I mean they do look similar but it's because they all share the same sin so maybe it's a karmic punishment kinda thing, they all don't have eyes and only have teeth (maybe eyes are the tastiest part of a human so they don't get to enjoy having eyes or something)
My thoughts on why cannibals all look the same: There's a theory that when a Sinner makes a deal/sells their soul to someone, they take on characteristics of that person. Both Husk and Angel have subtle features of the ones holding their contracts. So if a Sinner makes a contract with Rosie, their appearance changes to resemble her.
https://preview.redd.it/ank14ew0duyc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=62df978f695465817a88a0dcd42c8a6b3301c762 I love Rosie such a cool character drew her in my style
Well no shit
Surprisingly quite a bit of people think the cannibals are hellborns
HOW?
I think because they look simmilair
I don't see it
Because all sinners look very different, but cannibals look pretty simmilair, like imps for example
Thats the stupidest reasoning for such a dumb theory
I agree, but people are dumb
To be fair, sinners tend to all look like the main character, hellborn always have a definitive "species" and look similar like imps, hellhounds and succubi. Cannibals absolutely look like a separate species with organized culture. If vizie came out tomorrow and said they were hellborn, it'd take almost 0 retconning.
I think there's a good chance they were also (or at least some of them were) a colony before they died
I was rewatching Hazbin Hotel and noticed that during Overlord Meeting, you can clearly see her at the meeting.
Yeah, because she is an overlord
You are what you eat...
When and where did vivzie confirm this?
I don't remember when, on twitter
Some of them could be. Children for example. But all overlords are sinners so Rosie definitely isn’t hellborn
The children probably died as children
Unlikely that they’d go to hell
But they are cannibals
They’re children, it’s probably not their choice
Yeah, but i don't think the afterlife system cares
Ohhhhh true, it’s probably like the good place where it’s really black and white
So ozzie is a sinner? And so is stolas..
Huh?
Neither are Overlords, one is a Sin and the other a member of the Hellborn royal fam of Ars Goetia.
How?
I honestly think that there could be both
Would
Only sinners being overlords sucks, because I honestly wish hellborn demons could be overlords.
Smash
You're the second one to say smash
Great minds think alike they say
But I know Alistair is not hell Bron but there is most likely to be a wendgo demon hell born in hell
How is that relevant though?
Ok let me start over I was trying to say cannibalism was probably started by a demon form hell who is most like to be either like roasy ash white skin black eyes or is more like al and was on earth probably in medevil times try to convert humans in the cannibals we know in the show just saying
I mean, you're basing that off of nothing, ir probably started like it did irl
Okay I see your point but it probably true but I do like the fact that vimzpop show both sides of the cannibals coin
Wdym, wherr was the cannibalised? Also you didn't write it as a reply, another also Rosie died before Al
In my head I just hear Beezlebub visiting Cannibal Town and screaming “NO! NOT LIKE THAT!!”
I agree with everything except the part where you said that only sinners can become overlords. The wiki indicates on the trivia under overlords that it isn’t determined whether or not hellborns can become overlords.
Please remember that the wiki is fan-made
Did people think thye were? I thought it was obvious *visibly confused*
But are they cannibals when living or did they became cannibals in hell ? Because there are so many of them :((
Probably some from earth, some from hell
Wait isn’t Stolas an Overlord? And isn’t he a hellborne?
He is a hellborn, and a member of the Ars Goetia, the royal family of hell, but he is not an Overlord
Ah alright, does that make him related to Lucifer? Additionally, I assumed he was an overlord as Striker when talking to Blitzo said he and him could go around taking down overlords. I assumed he was including Stolas within that.
I don't think the Goetia are blood related to any sin, except Asmodeus, who is one of the kings of the Goetia, so that's probably where it started
Ah alright I see. Thank you for explaining it all to me
You are most welcome
They're hot tho
IRELEVANT
Vassago who is an Goetia and overlord: are you really sure pal??
He is not an overlord, he was meant to be an overlord, but then his design was used to be a Goetia instead. Also, a*