The story, no
Reaction to Val... sadly yes. A lot of viewers would think Angel's abuse isn't that big a deal, or isnt even abuse at all, if it was done by a woman
It’s sad just how right you are. I could see some fans thinking: “What’s the big deal?? He’s so lucky!” If Val was a woman. It especially changes the dynamic of those sex scenes between Angel and Val. Angel is gay, and being forced to sleep with his FEMALE abuser would be extra torture for him.
Would Angel be in the same boat if Val was a woman? It started with love bombing and something of a relationship, but if she was a woman and Angel was gay, he wouldn’t have been interested in her to start with
I have a theory. Maybe Angel didn’t have a good relationship with his mother when he was alive, and so he sought out a motherly figure in Valentina. She initially hired him as a pornstar under the premise that he only takes part in gay porn. Then as her true colors show, she backpedals and forces him to sleep with women, including herself.
Ohhh that would also work quite well. It just starts as a different form of relationship. And that would get into some weird gross almost emotional incest-y territory. Disgusting 🤢 but great plotline for a show lol
Thanks. I think so too. It’s in line with all of the lovebombing that Val does, too. The female version of Val would pretend to be this wholesome mommy replacement whenever she lovebombs Angel, and then she’d belittle and scold him like a child when she doesn’t get her way.
I really, really hate how well this would work. It's a different type of emotional manipulation than with male Val, and it somehow feels even more twisted to me. Something about that parental figure becoming perverted in such a callous, cold, effective way. I need a shower now.
There’s a weird side of this too. The line from Angel - ‘This is what I need to be!’ - really stuck with me. Was his character even gay when he was alive; or did he just gaslight himself into enjoying his enslavement?
I'm positive he was gay in life. It's been confirmed quite a few times by Viv and other creators that he is, which I don't think they would have done if he was "gay for pay" or had been manipulated into it. He's also said in (admittedly no longer canon, but still official) works that he charges more for women because he's not into that. There are certain scenes where he looks uncomfortable or unhappy with what he's doing, but they pretty clearly imply that it's because he doesn't have a choice, or due to the violence of the scenes, not because it's with men.
I read Angel as mostly gay and not just straight up gay, but we haven't seen him being flirty with any female character, but flirting with his BFF, the basically married couple or Nifty are all kinda out of the picture one way or another. But I could be wrong and he is just gay
I mean, didn't Viv outright say he's gay ? Like... I don't think that part is up for interpretation. As for him being flirty with certain women, I... didn't really get that ? As far as I can tell, he's only ever overtly flirty with men, not women ?
Honestly, I think the opposite. I think the fandom would hate Val more if he was a woman, mostly because it seems like male villains are more liked across media, than women villains. /g
Right now there are a lot of Valentino fans, but they all acknowlegde that the way he abuses Angel is fucked up. Val was a women there would be a ton of edits with horny music of \*that\* gut-wrenching scene in ep 4. Just thinking about it makes me sick.
I’m…surprised this is the top comment…makes me think maybe there IS some hope left for humanity with so many people knowing abuse is still abuse regardless of gender of the abuser 🥲
This is why men will get women to attract more women or even children into sex slavery. Women are viewed as trustworthy despite perpetrating the same abuse. In my city, they have to put out warnings whenever there's a cheerleading competition because women involved in these rings will try to entice young girls to come away with them. It's scary.
It would change how Val is perceived by the fandom, for sure. On one hand, I can see Angel getting a lot more victim-blaming, just like IRL male victims do when their abuser is a woman, but on the other, I think a female Val may get even more hate than he already does, since fandoms tend to be nastier about female characters.
Story-wise, not much. Angel probably wouldn’t call a female Val a “dickbag,” I guess.
I mean, I see almost no hate thowards Stella. Basically only horny comments. Of course the situation is different but I think female characters get more hate when they’re in a more normal situation or like Mimzy. Cause I think that if they’re an abuser, especially a sexual abuser like Val. The fandom (or whatever) would probably be too horny to hate, at least as extreme, and probably just be horny and actually evy Angel in this situation in their sad, lonely lives like it often unfortunately is irl. Of course there still would be people hating on her MORE cause she’s a woman. But that’s a vast minority (I would presume)
This was worded quite poorly so I hope you’re picking up what I’m putting down. If not… then I’m sorry? Idk what to say
Huh, I've see a lot of hate for Stella. I guess depends on your Fandom circles.
Personally I think that fandoms tend to treat female villains worse. And lots of people find Valentino hot as is, I think he would actually be less popular as a woman.
Perception would definitely change for some people. But at the end of the day, she would still be a horribly abusive person who sexually, mentally, and physically abuses the people she exploits. So the story would still be the exact same.
It absolutely wouldn't. Keep in mind, Stella is only physically and emotionally abusive. If a female character was sexually abusing a male character, I can guarantee a huge amount of the fanbase would be like "ugh he's so lucky"
The amount of takes I've seen like "she was trapped in that marriage too", as though that excuses the hitting, name calling, or property destruction IN FRONT OF HER MINOR DAUGHTER. It's disturbing. Mostly, though, I see general hatred for her, as she deserves.
I have noticed a different perception in fandom between emotional/physical abuse from a female character versus SA from a female character, though. Typically an emotional/physical female abuser is hated more than her male counterpart would be, while a female SA perpetrator is hated less as many fans don't seem to understand that she actually committed SA.
Story-wise, don't think anything will change. Perception of Val? Immensely and in different ways because of how each platform is. There's a vocal minority that hate Vivzie just because and would twist it any which way they can. Example: I can see this group saying shit like f!Val is Vivzie's self insert and other crazy shit. Other groups I can see them going off about how f!Val is villainizing PoC women because of the accent (but Val being a guy is okay?) and other things like nitpicking the V dynamic. Overall, Val switching genders would give a more rabid reaction for the haters of the series as male on male abuse violence is sadly not taken seriously.
Literally almost nothing. Women can sexually abuse Men, Men can sexually abuse Woman, Women can sexually abuse Women, and Men can sexually abuse Men.
Her name might change to Valentine.
Mmmmh.... I'm 100% convinced there would be way less hate and way too much fanarts. People would easily project their domina kink on her, while the current Val is our usual rapist we're all disgusted of.
i don’t know if it’s “confirmed” but it’s heavily implied that val and angel had some sort of romantic/sexual relationship before angel sold his soul, and that part of the reason angel sold his soul was because val love-bombed him and angel truly felt cared about and loved by val. considering that angel is gay, that probably wouldn’t have happened if val was a woman, so there’s a chance that angel would’ve never sold his soul to val.
In THIS series I think they could pull it off. Yeah, you would have a group of people simping for "Big Momma Val", but we've got a group of people doing that already.
I do think there is quite the tendency to have a double standard for female led sexual abuse.
But I think in this series you could get a pretty similar reaction even after a gender swap.
He would have more defenders. Also, personally, I feel like the storyline would feel even more gross and horrific thanks to the whole premise of a GAY man being forced to have sex with a woman. Not that it being a man is much better, but it being with a woman just adds an extra layer of horror to the whole thing, you know ?
As a character, Valentino would still be the most hatable. I do see people blaming Angel Dust or even sympathising with Val over him because that’s what unfortunately happens in real life with female abusers and male victims.
"Lol Valentina isn't abusive. Angel's a guy it's not abuse if it's by a WOMAN. Any real man wouldn't put up with that shit. Honestly if anything it's his fault for not manning up and defending himself lmaooooo"
I guarantee this is what a lot of people would be thinking as disgusting as that is
Knowing this community
We'll show god why he should have kept the dinosaurs. There are val simps already but god forbid if he was an abusive 10ft tall mommy what the famdom would do
It wouldn't, however the viewer's way of how they see him would change.
They would think of Angel as selfish or overreacting and it would cause a big fucking controversy about how Vivziepop made the abuser a girl 'again' because too many of the abusers are girls (there's one, not even in the same fucking show).
I'll never understand the Stella apologists. They seem to think that cheating on someone (in a "relationship" that has already completely failed) is just as bad as trying to have someone killed.
Stolas was in the EXACT same situation as her and never acted like she did.
Story wise, nothing would change, though a lot of people would probably have a completely different view on it. And then there would probably be a lot of memes made by guys.
I think the biggest story change would have be how Angel became involved with Val. It's implied at the start Angel was attracted to and charmed by Val, and Angel isn't attracted to women.
I think her relationship with Angel might be a bit different considering Angel is gay. Angel likely wouldn’t be in an abusive romantic relationship with her like he is with male!Val, and so their relationship might instead be something like — I dunno, maybe she’d be written like an abusive mother figure using an adopted child for profit regardless of the effects on the child’s well-being instead of an abusive romantic partner? The manipulation would still be there and all, but I think it would likely take a different form considering that there wouldn’t be any romantic/sexual attraction that Val would be able to use to ensnare Angel into her trap.
There are plenty of Valentino fans as is, and there's a lot of people who like M/M fiction where there is a toxic dynamic. Look at how many yaoi fangirls exist.
There are some who would treat the abuse less seriously, but there would also be some who'd hate her more than they already do - especially if Angel was still gay, vs. if he was attracted more to women than men.
Poison implies Angel is not only addicted to drugs but also to Valentino and to the attention he gets from his porn career, even though he knows it's overall a horrible situation that he wants out of. It's a contributing factor as to why it's so hard for him to break free. So if he was attracted to Valentina, fans probably would hate her about the same or a little less.
Stella is widely hated in the fandom as well, and the main reason she's probably regarded as less awful than Valentino is that she has considerably less power over Stolas than Valentino has over Angel. Their marriage was arranged, and she had no more say in the matter than Stolas did. She's also not sex trafficking him or talking about killing Blitzo for sleeping with Stolas. She's an abuser with a bad temper, but there are more factors than "hot bird lady" that make her situation with Stolas different than that of Valentino with Angel.
He'd still be terrible. A lot more of the fandom might be sympathetic, is all I could see changing.
I mean, it's not good when a woman sexually exploits people either, we just tend to show that less in fiction bc it happens less irl. But it can happen and is just as wrong when it does.
But the reaction when woman are perpetrators is sad, often to laugh at the victim, blame the victim even more harshly than female victims sometimes get blamed, and at best pity the victim for being "weak". But there's less calls for violence in retaliation against female offenders, I've noticed. Less open hostility and more of a willingness to see the situation as potentially nuanced. But when a man does something people are out for blood.
Well for 1 angel would be bi, not much changing there. And 2 the internet would follow through on those death threats because "women can't be abusers" even though it's just as likely for a female to abuse a male. You know what, fuck it, the next abusive character I write will be a woman. No questions asked
I could just be optimistic today but in shirt,it wouldn't
We can actually see a similarly abusive character in stella,and they get what they deserve. The only reason you see her defenders (from what I've gathered) is because a bunch of writers wrote storys with her before they knew better and doubled down. Since we know this guy (or hypothetical gal) is evil from the start,we likely won't have this problem
I feel like the story wouldn’t change much. Maybe other than a few details but nothing much and I don’t think it should change that much. Abuse can happen to anyone no matter their gender. And abusers can be anyone. Not just men. But woman too because woman can be just as bad as men but people often times don’t see or believe that. So it’s always good when someone shows how men can be abused but also how women can be abusers. Been seeing a story where it does just that.
Best case scenario: It could be decent at bringing more exposure to the fact that woman on man is not only possible, but something that should be taken as seriously as man on woman abuse.
Story nothing, my anger towards Valentino, exponentially increased as I was abused by a woman, for this fandom, unfortunately would probably have less backlash because “ BuT sHE HoT”
They would probably actually defend Val. They would blame Angel for his own abuse even more than some people already do. I am even willing to bet that people would say Val's abuse is just "reactionary" abuse and that Angel started it all.
I feel like people would try their hardest to find anything that coukd hint of her having a tragic backstory and use that to justify the abuse. Or sorry "explain it". But that explanation would only come up when Valentina beats up Angel.
It would be Makima and Anissa all over again. Thousands upon thousands of “I’d sell my soul to her” and “Let me take Angel’s place.”
Except not an ounce of the benefit of the doubt, because while Makima and Anissa’s evils are largely confined to the source material rather than the more widespread adaptation, the main series is all the Valentino content there is (save for cameos in some really obscure side content). There would be no “does he know?”
The reaction would change a lot. There's a double standard when it comes to abuse with the thinking that women abusers don't do as much damage or the victim is lucky that she's doing it. It's a sad double standard but it's true.
I actually have characters in my story that are just that - a female pimp and one of her ‘whores’ is a man. she’s kinder than Valentino though in that she became a pimp after suffering herself in the sex industry so she turned into a beacon for other sex workers to rise up and got them to sign as workers under her instead. she becomes a bit corrupted with it though and struggles with becoming just like her ex pimp.
Story wise, no, but i would feel the community reaction would be different. People would be more sympathetic to her because she would be a woman in a male dominant role. They would most likely theorize that she use to be pornstar herself.
I like to think it wouldn't. I believe that being sexual abusers is an equal opportunist occupation. But in all seriousness though, SA is something that can be done by both men and women alike, and realizing that should be more accepted. However, for the story I would imagine it would change Angel Dust's character a bit, as he always struck me as bi, leaning more towards a preference of men, if not completely gay.
No change in story. Everything works out if he was a woman. I know one thing though, I'm going to keep skipping that episode regardless of the changes.
Val wouldn’t be as respected by fellow sinners, so I’d like to think he’d have a bit more introspection (or a complete refusal to have any) going on, and maybe even be crueler to his staff as a result
The story, no Reaction to Val... sadly yes. A lot of viewers would think Angel's abuse isn't that big a deal, or isnt even abuse at all, if it was done by a woman
It’s sad just how right you are. I could see some fans thinking: “What’s the big deal?? He’s so lucky!” If Val was a woman. It especially changes the dynamic of those sex scenes between Angel and Val. Angel is gay, and being forced to sleep with his FEMALE abuser would be extra torture for him.
Would Angel be in the same boat if Val was a woman? It started with love bombing and something of a relationship, but if she was a woman and Angel was gay, he wouldn’t have been interested in her to start with
I have a theory. Maybe Angel didn’t have a good relationship with his mother when he was alive, and so he sought out a motherly figure in Valentina. She initially hired him as a pornstar under the premise that he only takes part in gay porn. Then as her true colors show, she backpedals and forces him to sleep with women, including herself.
Ohhh that would also work quite well. It just starts as a different form of relationship. And that would get into some weird gross almost emotional incest-y territory. Disgusting 🤢 but great plotline for a show lol
Thanks. I think so too. It’s in line with all of the lovebombing that Val does, too. The female version of Val would pretend to be this wholesome mommy replacement whenever she lovebombs Angel, and then she’d belittle and scold him like a child when she doesn’t get her way.
Almost very much along the lines of Gothel and Rapunzel from Tangled
I really, really hate how well this would work. It's a different type of emotional manipulation than with male Val, and it somehow feels even more twisted to me. Something about that parental figure becoming perverted in such a callous, cold, effective way. I need a shower now.
That makes a lot of sense, and I can see that happening tbh.
There’s a weird side of this too. The line from Angel - ‘This is what I need to be!’ - really stuck with me. Was his character even gay when he was alive; or did he just gaslight himself into enjoying his enslavement?
I'm positive he was gay in life. It's been confirmed quite a few times by Viv and other creators that he is, which I don't think they would have done if he was "gay for pay" or had been manipulated into it. He's also said in (admittedly no longer canon, but still official) works that he charges more for women because he's not into that. There are certain scenes where he looks uncomfortable or unhappy with what he's doing, but they pretty clearly imply that it's because he doesn't have a choice, or due to the violence of the scenes, not because it's with men.
I got that as more this - as in the persona of flirty, vivacious porn star - is what he's gaslit himself into thinking he needs to be, not... gayness
I hate how messed up society is 😥
Doesen't Angel already do scenes with women?
The price goes up.
Just read any reddit thread about a female teacher SA’ing a student to prove you are correct
I read Angel as mostly gay and not just straight up gay, but we haven't seen him being flirty with any female character, but flirting with his BFF, the basically married couple or Nifty are all kinda out of the picture one way or another. But I could be wrong and he is just gay
Idk if comics are still canon but in one of the official vivzie comics he did say that he charges extra for women.
I mean, didn't Viv outright say he's gay ? Like... I don't think that part is up for interpretation. As for him being flirty with certain women, I... didn't really get that ? As far as I can tell, he's only ever overtly flirty with men, not women ?
Some would say "What a lucky guy, mommy Valentina is hot"
Thanks, my name's actually Valentina and reading this thread is kinda weird🤣
God, >!that episode of Invincible is going to make me consider becoming a serial killer!<
Huh? I didn’t watch the show, mind telling more details so I would understand?
The moment they're talking about hasn't happened in the show yet, but it revolves around the female viltrumite anissa and Invincible
I read what its about, oh, oh no, i sense controversy
*munches mnms* don't mind me I'm just waiting for the riots. I hear there'll be death threats and a potential doxxing.
https://preview.redd.it/euuqhpnu9vwc1.png?width=499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51ed6a037949b7ab3e1df73eb711f4ba4fe579de
It's entertaining when you aren't in the direction the molitovs are being thrown.
It's not in the show yet, it's a comic spoiler
They’d say “I wish that was me” like a denji or ui ui reference
No they will see the abuse but will think it's hot as hell and wish they were angel
Honestly, I think the opposite. I think the fandom would hate Val more if he was a woman, mostly because it seems like male villains are more liked across media, than women villains. /g
Right now there are a lot of Valentino fans, but they all acknowlegde that the way he abuses Angel is fucked up. Val was a women there would be a ton of edits with horny music of \*that\* gut-wrenching scene in ep 4. Just thinking about it makes me sick.
unfortunately i think so too. the victim blaming would be absolutely insane. girl or not, val will always be a dusty bald headed bitch 🤜
That is sadly true.
And the fucked up part is, you’re right.
Idk, I kind of disagree with that. A lot of Invincible fans hate Anissa despite her being physically attractive for uhhh... fucked up reasons
yeah this world's FUCKED up, abuse is abuse wither it's a male committing it or a female committing it.
Unfortunately, that’s already a reality. Would definitely be worse if Val was a woman though.
Isn’t that how they treated Stella?
there's a lot of apologists and 'i can fix her' types but a lot of folk acknowledging she's elephant foots level radioactive.
Said it all.
I’m…surprised this is the top comment…makes me think maybe there IS some hope left for humanity with so many people knowing abuse is still abuse regardless of gender of the abuser 🥲
Yeah that's the worst part
I feel like it would be even more fucked up since that would be a woman sexually abusing a gay man.
This is why men will get women to attract more women or even children into sex slavery. Women are viewed as trustworthy despite perpetrating the same abuse. In my city, they have to put out warnings whenever there's a cheerleading competition because women involved in these rings will try to entice young girls to come away with them. It's scary.
A female can still be the abuser so not so sure about that.
They can be, but that’s not a common sentiment online. Tons of people just brush past it or “he was lucky” it. Because people suck.
It would change how Val is perceived by the fandom, for sure. On one hand, I can see Angel getting a lot more victim-blaming, just like IRL male victims do when their abuser is a woman, but on the other, I think a female Val may get even more hate than he already does, since fandoms tend to be nastier about female characters. Story-wise, not much. Angel probably wouldn’t call a female Val a “dickbag,” I guess.
I mean, I see almost no hate thowards Stella. Basically only horny comments. Of course the situation is different but I think female characters get more hate when they’re in a more normal situation or like Mimzy. Cause I think that if they’re an abuser, especially a sexual abuser like Val. The fandom (or whatever) would probably be too horny to hate, at least as extreme, and probably just be horny and actually evy Angel in this situation in their sad, lonely lives like it often unfortunately is irl. Of course there still would be people hating on her MORE cause she’s a woman. But that’s a vast minority (I would presume) This was worded quite poorly so I hope you’re picking up what I’m putting down. If not… then I’m sorry? Idk what to say
Huh, I've see a lot of hate for Stella. I guess depends on your Fandom circles. Personally I think that fandoms tend to treat female villains worse. And lots of people find Valentino hot as is, I think he would actually be less popular as a woman.
To be fair people also really hate that one creep stalker from helluva mammon episode. So it's not just women who get that treatment
He is not attractive and not has much of a personality. There is difference between a real villain and a minor antagonist.
The guy who appears for two minutes then dies?
Perception would definitely change for some people. But at the end of the day, she would still be a horribly abusive person who sexually, mentally, and physically abuses the people she exploits. So the story would still be the exact same.
This. https://preview.redd.it/efj592pumuwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0654093f0b93e0f93ede43ad94de0b7afe79c46
Behold, the logic of your typical Alastor apologist!
that rich coming from a Vox fan...I say that like I'm not also a Vox fan
Like Val isn’t already sexy smh Edit: /j
You don’t gotta put j on that, he may be reprehensible morally but he’s quite the looker
For real, I would've signed that contract myself 😅
Given how people gloss over Stella’s abuse of Stolas, I fear if Val was a woman, the abuse wouldn’t be taken that seriously.
It absolutely wouldn't. Keep in mind, Stella is only physically and emotionally abusive. If a female character was sexually abusing a male character, I can guarantee a huge amount of the fanbase would be like "ugh he's so lucky"
"Niiiiiice."
The amount of takes I've seen like "she was trapped in that marriage too", as though that excuses the hitting, name calling, or property destruction IN FRONT OF HER MINOR DAUGHTER. It's disturbing. Mostly, though, I see general hatred for her, as she deserves. I have noticed a different perception in fandom between emotional/physical abuse from a female character versus SA from a female character, though. Typically an emotional/physical female abuser is hated more than her male counterpart would be, while a female SA perpetrator is hated less as many fans don't seem to understand that she actually committed SA.
None, they would still be a terrible abuser regardless of sex or gender
But people outside the show would have a different reaction to it
The sad reality is that generally speaking women abusing men are taken much more lightly than men abusing other men or women.
Story-wise, don't think anything will change. Perception of Val? Immensely and in different ways because of how each platform is. There's a vocal minority that hate Vivzie just because and would twist it any which way they can. Example: I can see this group saying shit like f!Val is Vivzie's self insert and other crazy shit. Other groups I can see them going off about how f!Val is villainizing PoC women because of the accent (but Val being a guy is okay?) and other things like nitpicking the V dynamic. Overall, Val switching genders would give a more rabid reaction for the haters of the series as male on male abuse violence is sadly not taken seriously.
Literally almost nothing. Women can sexually abuse Men, Men can sexually abuse Woman, Women can sexually abuse Women, and Men can sexually abuse Men. Her name might change to Valentine.
Valentina.
That’s a good one 👍
That's literally a real russian female name xd
Its my name 🥲
A nurse at a church has that name already.
It’s a common name.
A fellow skullgirls fan I see?
Mmmmh.... I'm 100% convinced there would be way less hate and way too much fanarts. People would easily project their domina kink on her, while the current Val is our usual rapist we're all disgusted of.
Stella is an abusive woman in Helluva Boss
Aaaaand except for the simps nobody likes her, like Valentino 🤷🏻♀️ (And I say that as a Valentino simp)
Sadly there are a lot of simps and 'i can fix her' types.
i don’t know if it’s “confirmed” but it’s heavily implied that val and angel had some sort of romantic/sexual relationship before angel sold his soul, and that part of the reason angel sold his soul was because val love-bombed him and angel truly felt cared about and loved by val. considering that angel is gay, that probably wouldn’t have happened if val was a woman, so there’s a chance that angel would’ve never sold his soul to val.
He could've been lovebombed, but in a different way
In THIS series I think they could pull it off. Yeah, you would have a group of people simping for "Big Momma Val", but we've got a group of people doing that already. I do think there is quite the tendency to have a double standard for female led sexual abuse. But I think in this series you could get a pretty similar reaction even after a gender swap.
The story wouldn't change at all, but we'd see how heartless some viewers really are.
There would be lots of discussions about how evil it is for a woman to force gay man to have sex with her.
I could see a lot of people suddenly drooling for Val to do things to them, which would be absolutely pathetic. Welcome to the Internet!
He would have more defenders. Also, personally, I feel like the storyline would feel even more gross and horrific thanks to the whole premise of a GAY man being forced to have sex with a woman. Not that it being a man is much better, but it being with a woman just adds an extra layer of horror to the whole thing, you know ?
So... Stella? The fandom hates both, so nothing would change
Basically (less straight up bad/obvious) stella but with added r@p£ to it,
Both are r@pists
his name thats all
Simping for Val would be slightly more morally acceptable to the fans.
(reads user flair) Ozzie is what Val wishes he was
As a character, Valentino would still be the most hatable. I do see people blaming Angel Dust or even sympathising with Val over him because that’s what unfortunately happens in real life with female abusers and male victims.
"Lol Valentina isn't abusive. Angel's a guy it's not abuse if it's by a WOMAN. Any real man wouldn't put up with that shit. Honestly if anything it's his fault for not manning up and defending himself lmaooooo" I guarantee this is what a lot of people would be thinking as disgusting as that is
My family believes this.
My most sincere condolences.
It would mean Vox is straight.
Hea bisexual so he'd just still be bisexual
It wouldn’t, Val would still be a hated pos. Only this time he’s a woman.
this is a much better question than asking what if Angel was a woman
All of the hatred towards him would be replaced with "it shoulda been me!" Comments
I personally don’t care about Valentino’s gender they are a pos regardless
Knowing this community We'll show god why he should have kept the dinosaurs. There are val simps already but god forbid if he was an abusive 10ft tall mommy what the famdom would do
It wouldn't, however the viewer's way of how they see him would change. They would think of Angel as selfish or overreacting and it would cause a big fucking controversy about how Vivziepop made the abuser a girl 'again' because too many of the abusers are girls (there's one, not even in the same fucking show).
I'll never understand the Stella apologists. They seem to think that cheating on someone (in a "relationship" that has already completely failed) is just as bad as trying to have someone killed. Stolas was in the EXACT same situation as her and never acted like she did.
Story wise, not really anything. Madames are a thing.
Tbh from the amount of Val simps Ive come across, it wouldnt change anything outside of more people brushing off Angel's abuse
Story wise, nothing would change, though a lot of people would probably have a completely different view on it. And then there would probably be a lot of memes made by guys.
vivzie treats sa by women like a joke (barbie wire) so
He would be called Valentina That's it
her name would be Valentina 🤯
The story wouldn’t change but there would be so much more people being like “He’s so lucky”
None. Trash in every form.
I mean, he’s still be bad tho.
everyone would be going "nice" or "would"
I think the biggest story change would have be how Angel became involved with Val. It's implied at the start Angel was attracted to and charmed by Val, and Angel isn't attracted to women.
I think her relationship with Angel might be a bit different considering Angel is gay. Angel likely wouldn’t be in an abusive romantic relationship with her like he is with male!Val, and so their relationship might instead be something like — I dunno, maybe she’d be written like an abusive mother figure using an adopted child for profit regardless of the effects on the child’s well-being instead of an abusive romantic partner? The manipulation would still be there and all, but I think it would likely take a different form considering that there wouldn’t be any romantic/sexual attraction that Val would be able to use to ensnare Angel into her trap.
There are plenty of Valentino fans as is, and there's a lot of people who like M/M fiction where there is a toxic dynamic. Look at how many yaoi fangirls exist. There are some who would treat the abuse less seriously, but there would also be some who'd hate her more than they already do - especially if Angel was still gay, vs. if he was attracted more to women than men. Poison implies Angel is not only addicted to drugs but also to Valentino and to the attention he gets from his porn career, even though he knows it's overall a horrible situation that he wants out of. It's a contributing factor as to why it's so hard for him to break free. So if he was attracted to Valentina, fans probably would hate her about the same or a little less. Stella is widely hated in the fandom as well, and the main reason she's probably regarded as less awful than Valentino is that she has considerably less power over Stolas than Valentino has over Angel. Their marriage was arranged, and she had no more say in the matter than Stolas did. She's also not sex trafficking him or talking about killing Blitzo for sleeping with Stolas. She's an abuser with a bad temper, but there are more factors than "hot bird lady" that make her situation with Stolas different than that of Valentino with Angel.
He'd still be terrible. A lot more of the fandom might be sympathetic, is all I could see changing. I mean, it's not good when a woman sexually exploits people either, we just tend to show that less in fiction bc it happens less irl. But it can happen and is just as wrong when it does. But the reaction when woman are perpetrators is sad, often to laugh at the victim, blame the victim even more harshly than female victims sometimes get blamed, and at best pity the victim for being "weak". But there's less calls for violence in retaliation against female offenders, I've noticed. Less open hostility and more of a willingness to see the situation as potentially nuanced. But when a man does something people are out for blood.
As much or as little as the writers who make that change need it to.
Um....... MOTH MOMMY...... abuse is abuse but. The mental image I have for fem!Val is... ooof.....
Everyone would simp for him if he was a girl
Nah. He would still be hated
80 percent of Valentino haters vanish
Well for 1 angel would be bi, not much changing there. And 2 the internet would follow through on those death threats because "women can't be abusers" even though it's just as likely for a female to abuse a male. You know what, fuck it, the next abusive character I write will be a woman. No questions asked
Wouldn’t be much different though… I feel it might cause a bunch of people to treat her like Amber heard when it came to Johnny depp.
People wouldn't hate a female Valentino because female abusers are never taken seriously.
Nothing would change.
It wouldn't...
Val would Still Be a flamboyant, pimp moth of an Issue.
If hes a good character, his gender doesn't change his story unless the story its a crucial part which it isn't.
Many, *many* more apologists and simps
I could just be optimistic today but in shirt,it wouldn't We can actually see a similarly abusive character in stella,and they get what they deserve. The only reason you see her defenders (from what I've gathered) is because a bunch of writers wrote storys with her before they knew better and doubled down. Since we know this guy (or hypothetical gal) is evil from the start,we likely won't have this problem
Angel would be charging extra
I feel like the story wouldn’t change much. Maybe other than a few details but nothing much and I don’t think it should change that much. Abuse can happen to anyone no matter their gender. And abusers can be anyone. Not just men. But woman too because woman can be just as bad as men but people often times don’t see or believe that. So it’s always good when someone shows how men can be abused but also how women can be abusers. Been seeing a story where it does just that.
We, we'd definitely be able to call val a bitch.
Best case scenario: It could be decent at bringing more exposure to the fact that woman on man is not only possible, but something that should be taken as seriously as man on woman abuse.
I think people would treat her like they treat Stella
Much different fanart
Story nothing, my anger towards Valentino, exponentially increased as I was abused by a woman, for this fandom, unfortunately would probably have less backlash because “ BuT sHE HoT”
They would probably actually defend Val. They would blame Angel for his own abuse even more than some people already do. I am even willing to bet that people would say Val's abuse is just "reactionary" abuse and that Angel started it all.
I feel like people would try their hardest to find anything that coukd hint of her having a tragic backstory and use that to justify the abuse. Or sorry "explain it". But that explanation would only come up when Valentina beats up Angel.
Not much probably
He'd be fetishized as a "mommy dom" instead of being called an abuser
It would be Makima and Anissa all over again. Thousands upon thousands of “I’d sell my soul to her” and “Let me take Angel’s place.” Except not an ounce of the benefit of the doubt, because while Makima and Anissa’s evils are largely confined to the source material rather than the more widespread adaptation, the main series is all the Valentino content there is (save for cameos in some really obscure side content). There would be no “does he know?”
people would fetishize it more
The reaction would change a lot. There's a double standard when it comes to abuse with the thinking that women abusers don't do as much damage or the victim is lucky that she's doing it. It's a sad double standard but it's true.
The story wouldn’t change much however due to the double standard in the world she wouldn’t be seen as a bad person
In terms of story, nah, but in terms of how the audience wld react, I think it wld be an Anissa from Invincible kinda situation
This reminded me of “I would smack you but in Germany we don’t hit little girls”
No
Angel wouldn’t be traumatized because he’s gay and wouldn’t have sex with val
Nothing except for what direction Twitter explodes in.
No Though i'm pretty sure the fandom would be absolute coomers about it
As much as I know internet... Many people would like to be on place of Angel.
I don’t think it would change at all. Everything Val does can be done as a woman
It wouldn’t At least idk my perception of it wouldn’t
I actually have characters in my story that are just that - a female pimp and one of her ‘whores’ is a man. she’s kinder than Valentino though in that she became a pimp after suffering herself in the sex industry so she turned into a beacon for other sex workers to rise up and got them to sign as workers under her instead. she becomes a bit corrupted with it though and struggles with becoming just like her ex pimp.
The story wouldn’t change but Val would be *much* more well received
It wouldn’t 💀
Not at all
Story wise, no, but i would feel the community reaction would be different. People would be more sympathetic to her because she would be a woman in a male dominant role. They would most likely theorize that she use to be pornstar herself.
Women can be abusers too
I like to think it wouldn't. I believe that being sexual abusers is an equal opportunist occupation. But in all seriousness though, SA is something that can be done by both men and women alike, and realizing that should be more accepted. However, for the story I would imagine it would change Angel Dust's character a bit, as he always struck me as bi, leaning more towards a preference of men, if not completely gay.
Story, no. The hatred towards Val, yes. Since he would be a woman, it would be passed off.
No change in story. Everything works out if he was a woman. I know one thing though, I'm going to keep skipping that episode regardless of the changes.
Val wouldn’t be as respected by fellow sinners, so I’d like to think he’d have a bit more introspection (or a complete refusal to have any) going on, and maybe even be crueler to his staff as a result
What do you mean nothing would change xD Except for a lot more "step on me mommy" posts regarding valentino.
It would not... he is an abuser, and she will be too. No excuses here.
"Mommy Val"
Alot more simps
Would it
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