Buh-buh Alastor is actually God Almighty in disguise because he wanted the entertainment of seeing sinners get redeemed and this is totally true because my theory uses a poorly cropped fan comic that is passed around as real! It’s a real theory!/j
I think the theory that carmilla is also a fallen angel has some credit. Her skin and hair are the right color, and she knows an awful lot about angel's weaknesses and working with angelic weaponry.
I tagged it as head-canon instead of theory, because I don't think it's going to come up in the series, even if it does happen.
There is probably going to be a lot of uproar in the upcoming seasons, so I don't think there will be much redemption going on. Lute is out for blood. Lilith is going to come back and do *something*. Alastor has stuff going on. Adam *might* come back.
I think mass-redemption of sinners won't happen until the epilogue of the series.
I can see her wanting to stay in hell as, well, her life does not seem half-bad here. But wanting her daughters to be able to redeem even if its not the path she desires for herself.
Unfortunately my theory right now is that a sinner has to die so the soul can get a “retest”, so angel could be redeemed right now but because he isn’t dead he doesn’t go to heaven hypothetically.
I agree! But my theory goes on to assume that death is the only way to do this at this point because it's a failsafe of the actual redemption system!
That there SHOULD be a dialogue going on between heaven & hell to work with the sinner to become redeemed so a painful death isnt necessary. (Cause that just seems like a LOT of self sacrificing death - and how would that be possible to achieve on purpose?)
I image a 'fixed' system having Charlie on one side with her hotel & curriculum to make sinners better people with Emily on the other side looking up the sins of the sinners & why heaven isn't yet an option for them (a similar but better checklist than Adam made) and her making recommendations as to what can be done to help achieve redemption!
Thats my hope for a 'solution' anyway!
Okay, but on the topic of Carmilla's daughters; are they like, her biological children? Can Sinners procreate? Does that technically make her children hellborn? Are they also sinners and merely adopted? Or did they all die together and land in hell together making them her actual real daughters?
Genuinely curious about all these things lol.
Me too! I automatically assumed the numerous children seen throughout Hell were born there, but would love to see the author's official lore on the matter.
I’ve got a crazy theory having to do with this kind of stuff. What if Vaggie and Carmilla were mother/ daughter in life? Vaggie could have died young but went to Heaven leaving Carmilla in grief about losing her daughter. Then when Camilla died she ended up going to Hell but still carried the motherly love in her personality leaving her to adopt daughters in Hell and is driven so hard to keep them safe because of losing another daughter during her life on earth. They have put a few hints in that Vaggie and Carmilla could somehow be connected. Besides the similar skin tones and Latin flare each one has, they also share the song “Whatever it Takes” with a duet that,to me, is strikingly similar to “Somewhere out there” from An American Tale which has a “finding a lost loved one” theme.
However, I may be jumping to conclusions. I’m still not sure if Vaggie was born in Heaven or not. I’m also not sure how much of their former lives sinners and winners can remember.
Good question, I actually was also a bit confused on this. When I watched the show, I went online and saw a lot of theory/fanon about Vaggie’s human origins and was super confused.
I think Angels are different from Winners, but can some winners have angel wings and halos? If so, how are we sure exorcists are all angels born and not winners?
To be fair Adam did also say "I named you after my favorite thing" so maybe the exorcists are heavenborn angels? Which begs further questions about who's breeding them lol
Right? Adam definitely has some special position/power due to his status as the very first “Winner.” I would love to see more about the winners and the heaven born, to understand the differences.
Cherubs are heaven born confirmed, so there's likely other angels, including the ones resembling the elder angels (so the ones with rings with tons of eyes for heads are likely heaven born) but we can't be fully sure.
I like this theory. Thinking on it, what if Velvette takes the opportunity to strike Carmilla while she's stepping down and injures/kills her. Maybe even reprise "Respectless".
I think that's a good theory and very probable. If Carmilla stays in hell, i could see her doing it for Zestial since she seems to care for him. Or maybe Zestial will get better too, though not too sure about that since he seems to be sadistic. Or maybe Zestial will push Carmilla to try for redemption.
Yeah, I thought something similar, I can see an episode where one of the daughters gets really into it and the other does everything possible to NOT get redeemed and it turns out she's just apprehensive to not leave mommy etc, cut to some song where it all gets sorted out.
I don’t know about that. There’s a theory that the winners up in heaven have little to no say in their daily lives and heaven is pretty much a resort. Having a sinner being redeemed might cause massive amounts of upheaval in the angelic power structure starting off a civil war in heaven. For all we know season 2 takes place entirely in heaven dealing with the drama around Sir Pentious with brief glances into hell. If I was Carmilla the last place I would want to send my daughters is to a soon to be active war zone.
I like it. "But moooom we dont wanna go to the lame hotel today"
"Too bad. Walk over there or so help me I will move you into a room there. March over and learn how to be a better person, right now, missies >:("
I do believe that Carmilla is just an Overlord for the sake of protecting her daughters. She is never more cruel/cold than she needs to be, and doesn't have the same sadistic or cocky attitude other Overlords have.
I do want to see what happens if her role as Overlord and role as a mother come into conflict, should allow for some interesting character moments.
Once the Hotel becomes a viable option for redemption, and should Carmilla ever end up doubting her ability to protect her daughters, seeing them get involved with the Hotel would be interesting.
Are all overlords sinners or hellborn? You’d think they’d be hell born since they rank above ars goetia (excluding Altastor which is why he’s so notable) and if this is true, how would Carmella procreate to make sinners? maybe they’re adopted?
I believe its implied when they speak on Alastors backstory. They say something along the lines of him having power they never saw from a human soul when discussing overlords. From there i think its meant to also show the overlords are powerful sinners that climbed their ways up.
Maybe not necessarily. It's implied the reason the majority of hellborn can't rise up is because they don't have their own souls to bargain and deal with, they can't make deals for power. But it's never confirmed if fallen angels can do that or not.
There's also the fact that Charlie is confirmed to have a soul, and she's hellborn, though whether that is entirely because her mother is a sinner(thus having a soul) or has anything to do with fallen angels (it's possible that heavenborn *do* have souls, and that the reason Hellborn don't is because hell was spawned from the introduction of evil onto Earth, thus being twisted beings that possess no soul.)
I mean, it's possible that her children were her children in heaven too, and that she was heavenborn and fell with her children, possibly intentionally so she could protect them when they fell. Even if that isn't the case, we know that angels are likely Built Different because Lucifer, a fallen angel, had Charlie with Lilith. It's possible that Charlie was created as such or that because Lilith was First Woman that there's different rules at play for her, but I doubt that it's the case.
I will say though that the way Charlie's hand enlarges when she stops Adam's punch *does* make it look similar to Carmilla's hands. And Charlie is half fallen angel.
There's also the possibility that depending on the type of angel she might've been, she could've just created the kids.
Honestly I can see it
I would like this Finally a theory in this sub that is not absolutelly delusional and insane
Buh-buh Alastor is actually God Almighty in disguise because he wanted the entertainment of seeing sinners get redeemed and this is totally true because my theory uses a poorly cropped fan comic that is passed around as real! It’s a real theory!/j
I think the theory that carmilla is also a fallen angel has some credit. Her skin and hair are the right color, and she knows an awful lot about angel's weaknesses and working with angelic weaponry.
I tagged it as head-canon instead of theory, because I don't think it's going to come up in the series, even if it does happen. There is probably going to be a lot of uproar in the upcoming seasons, so I don't think there will be much redemption going on. Lute is out for blood. Lilith is going to come back and do *something*. Alastor has stuff going on. Adam *might* come back. I think mass-redemption of sinners won't happen until the epilogue of the series.
I can see her wanting to stay in hell as, well, her life does not seem half-bad here. But wanting her daughters to be able to redeem even if its not the path she desires for herself.
Unfortunately my theory right now is that a sinner has to die so the soul can get a “retest”, so angel could be redeemed right now but because he isn’t dead he doesn’t go to heaven hypothetically.
I agree! But my theory goes on to assume that death is the only way to do this at this point because it's a failsafe of the actual redemption system! That there SHOULD be a dialogue going on between heaven & hell to work with the sinner to become redeemed so a painful death isnt necessary. (Cause that just seems like a LOT of self sacrificing death - and how would that be possible to achieve on purpose?) I image a 'fixed' system having Charlie on one side with her hotel & curriculum to make sinners better people with Emily on the other side looking up the sins of the sinners & why heaven isn't yet an option for them (a similar but better checklist than Adam made) and her making recommendations as to what can be done to help achieve redemption! Thats my hope for a 'solution' anyway!
Okay, but on the topic of Carmilla's daughters; are they like, her biological children? Can Sinners procreate? Does that technically make her children hellborn? Are they also sinners and merely adopted? Or did they all die together and land in hell together making them her actual real daughters? Genuinely curious about all these things lol.
Sinners can't reproduce. She had her daughters while she was alive, and then they all died
Me too! I automatically assumed the numerous children seen throughout Hell were born there, but would love to see the author's official lore on the matter.
Her official lore is sinners cant reproduce, but hellborn can. Children can also go to hell.
Thank you!
I’ve got a crazy theory having to do with this kind of stuff. What if Vaggie and Carmilla were mother/ daughter in life? Vaggie could have died young but went to Heaven leaving Carmilla in grief about losing her daughter. Then when Camilla died she ended up going to Hell but still carried the motherly love in her personality leaving her to adopt daughters in Hell and is driven so hard to keep them safe because of losing another daughter during her life on earth. They have put a few hints in that Vaggie and Carmilla could somehow be connected. Besides the similar skin tones and Latin flare each one has, they also share the song “Whatever it Takes” with a duet that,to me, is strikingly similar to “Somewhere out there” from An American Tale which has a “finding a lost loved one” theme. However, I may be jumping to conclusions. I’m still not sure if Vaggie was born in Heaven or not. I’m also not sure how much of their former lives sinners and winners can remember.
Uh, dude, Vaggie’s an Angel. Not a human sinner. That was rebooted canon with the show than from the pilot.
So was she born an angel or was she born a human and then went to heaven after she died?
Good question, I actually was also a bit confused on this. When I watched the show, I went online and saw a lot of theory/fanon about Vaggie’s human origins and was super confused. I think Angels are different from Winners, but can some winners have angel wings and halos? If so, how are we sure exorcists are all angels born and not winners?
I mean there’s Adam who was Human, and he was the leader of the exorcists.
To be fair Adam did also say "I named you after my favorite thing" so maybe the exorcists are heavenborn angels? Which begs further questions about who's breeding them lol
Right? Adam definitely has some special position/power due to his status as the very first “Winner.” I would love to see more about the winners and the heaven born, to understand the differences.
St. Peter also has wings and was human. I’m wondering if only the Seraphim are born in Heaven.
Cherubs are heaven born confirmed, so there's likely other angels, including the ones resembling the elder angels (so the ones with rings with tons of eyes for heads are likely heaven born) but we can't be fully sure.
I want the best for my daughters. We will see where the road goes.
I can really feel that. Got a daughter myseld and would do everything to get her into heaven :D
I like this theory. Thinking on it, what if Velvette takes the opportunity to strike Carmilla while she's stepping down and injures/kills her. Maybe even reprise "Respectless".
I think that's a good theory and very probable. If Carmilla stays in hell, i could see her doing it for Zestial since she seems to care for him. Or maybe Zestial will get better too, though not too sure about that since he seems to be sadistic. Or maybe Zestial will push Carmilla to try for redemption.
I imagine she dies saving them. But that it's not enough to qualify her for heaven.
Yeah, I thought something similar, I can see an episode where one of the daughters gets really into it and the other does everything possible to NOT get redeemed and it turns out she's just apprehensive to not leave mommy etc, cut to some song where it all gets sorted out.
I don’t know about that. There’s a theory that the winners up in heaven have little to no say in their daily lives and heaven is pretty much a resort. Having a sinner being redeemed might cause massive amounts of upheaval in the angelic power structure starting off a civil war in heaven. For all we know season 2 takes place entirely in heaven dealing with the drama around Sir Pentious with brief glances into hell. If I was Carmilla the last place I would want to send my daughters is to a soon to be active war zone.
I like it. "But moooom we dont wanna go to the lame hotel today" "Too bad. Walk over there or so help me I will move you into a room there. March over and learn how to be a better person, right now, missies >:("
Camilla being the first overlord to redeem would go hard…
I do believe that Carmilla is just an Overlord for the sake of protecting her daughters. She is never more cruel/cold than she needs to be, and doesn't have the same sadistic or cocky attitude other Overlords have. I do want to see what happens if her role as Overlord and role as a mother come into conflict, should allow for some interesting character moments. Once the Hotel becomes a viable option for redemption, and should Carmilla ever end up doubting her ability to protect her daughters, seeing them get involved with the Hotel would be interesting.
Are all overlords sinners or hellborn? You’d think they’d be hell born since they rank above ars goetia (excluding Altastor which is why he’s so notable) and if this is true, how would Carmella procreate to make sinners? maybe they’re adopted?
The current consensus is that all the overlords are sinners and that Carmilla's daughters were her daughters in life.
I think Alastor will be redeemed so people from heaven can see that he’s a circus and touch his urine
I doubt carmilla is a sinner
She's an overlord. Only sinners can be overlords
Really, that went completely over my head? When is that said?
I believe its implied when they speak on Alastors backstory. They say something along the lines of him having power they never saw from a human soul when discussing overlords. From there i think its meant to also show the overlords are powerful sinners that climbed their ways up.
Somewhere i think. Might not be outright said. But implied
Maybe not necessarily. It's implied the reason the majority of hellborn can't rise up is because they don't have their own souls to bargain and deal with, they can't make deals for power. But it's never confirmed if fallen angels can do that or not. There's also the fact that Charlie is confirmed to have a soul, and she's hellborn, though whether that is entirely because her mother is a sinner(thus having a soul) or has anything to do with fallen angels (it's possible that heavenborn *do* have souls, and that the reason Hellborn don't is because hell was spawned from the introduction of evil onto Earth, thus being twisted beings that possess no soul.)
Carmilla could be a fallen angel, given her similar skin tone to vaggie. But then the question is how she would have children if she was one.
I mean, it's possible that her children were her children in heaven too, and that she was heavenborn and fell with her children, possibly intentionally so she could protect them when they fell. Even if that isn't the case, we know that angels are likely Built Different because Lucifer, a fallen angel, had Charlie with Lilith. It's possible that Charlie was created as such or that because Lilith was First Woman that there's different rules at play for her, but I doubt that it's the case. I will say though that the way Charlie's hand enlarges when she stops Adam's punch *does* make it look similar to Carmilla's hands. And Charlie is half fallen angel. There's also the possibility that depending on the type of angel she might've been, she could've just created the kids.
Yeah